DK 1.6 Discussion

Gargragrond

I don't think that changes to individual skills make a huge difference, but changes to overall game mechanics do. That is, the mechanics have changed so that it's much harder to leverage traditional dk advantages. After some testing in PTS (mainly pvp), some points seem to be:

- dks have a nice block bonus passive (iron skin), and blocking has been really effective, but now it has been made nearly impossible due to stamina drain.
- dks have very nice DOTs to deal good damage (unstable/engulfing), but they don't apply to damage shields or blocking targets anymore, which makes them quite useless when everyone is running shields.
- ultimate generation changes nerf resource management
- increased stamina drain accentuate the lack of reliable magicka gap-closer.

At least traditional magicka-heavy dk is very much worse than in live, much less damage and much less mitigation. Stamina or ranged builds may offer a bit more hope.

the new shield that comes with ferocious leap is really nice however : )

Jaerlach

I've seen stam and magicka dps dk to the 14k mark already. I think we'll be fine.

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO

stamina dk's really need a proper instant damage class skill that scales off stamina for pvp (flame lash!). shieldstacking makes unstable flame/burning breath kinda pointless, even though it's nice to have that less than 400 cost unstable flame, which is essentially for free...
nb's and templars both have stamina based class skills that are way better for pvp than what we got unfortunately (not considering pve obviously where unstable and breath are great skills).
i really like the new fossilize and ferocious leap though, great dueling tools!

aco5712

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Anyone on the pts having success with 7 heavy and a shield, or 7 medium and a 2hander?

@Lynx7386‌

7 med + 2 hander

Crit rush, unstable, fiery breath, executioner, rally, soul assult

Nice burst, nice dots, ulti is cheap and benefits from rally. You can get it around doing 20k dmg over the 3 seconds or something.

Yuke

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO wrote: »

stamina dk's really need a proper instant damage class skill that scales off stamina for pvp (flame lash!). shieldstacking makes unstable flame/burning breath kinda pointless, even though it's nice to have that less than 400 cost unstable flame, which is essentially for free...
nb's and templars both have stamina based class skills that are way better for pvp than what we got unfortunately (not considering pve obviously where unstable and breath are great skills).
i really like the new fossilize and ferocious leap though, great dueling tools!

No, Magicka-DKs got nerfed more than enough. No need to lose the only good skill left.

After testing around on PTS the last couple of days, i think ill go for a Magicka-based glass-cannon build with DW and 2500spelldmg. Defense = Shields.

Armitas

How do we feel about this?

Corrosive Armor - While active your attacks ignore 100% of an enemies armor

From

Reduce weapon damage of nearby enemies by 40%

I have recently started using Corrosive Armor in pvp because it's not a ground effect that can be negated. I can run into a flag, tank tons of damage, and lower the damage of my enemies much like a reverse veil. I would personally rather have that then armor penetration.

What do you think about it?

OtarTheMad

Armitas wrote: »

How do we feel about this?

Corrosive Armor - While active your attacks ignore 100% of an enemies armor

From

Reduce weapon damage of nearby enemies by 40%

I have recently started using Corrosive Armor in pvp because it's not a ground effect that can be negated. I can run into a flag, tank tons of damage, and lower the damage of my enemies much like a reverse veil. I would personally rather have that then armor penetration.

What do you think about it?

I've tried Corrosive Armor in the past on my DK and I am divided. It's a good Ultimate because it can't be negated and travels with you but the damage is a little underwhelming. I have to test it more though. That's just me.

I am honestly very divided what build to go with on my Orc DK. Originally I was going to make him a tank again but with blocking taking a ton of stam I am not sure... maybe medium armor build or even the light armor build... I am not sure.

Nijjion

rophez_ESO wrote: »

I notice this thread gets buried really fast. Are all you DKs just rolling up templars, or are people really just OK with all the changes?

Because everyone shames DKs for saying anything. I think people have moved on. I know many top DKs have gone NBs/sorcs now and ditched their dks.

Though yeah DKs with the nerfs you would think we would be the most outspokened and justified to moan but that looks like the sorcs have the biggest moaners around judging by their thread.

Khivas_Carrick

Jaerlach wrote: »

I've seen stam and magicka dps dk to the 14k mark already. I think we'll be fine.

This actually makes me think that people are either in a bad testing field or DKs are still too strong, as the 3 other classes haven't gotten to this point iirc.

Oughash

Yuke wrote: »

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO wrote: »

stamina dk's really need a proper instant damage class skill that scales off stamina for pvp (flame lash!). shieldstacking makes unstable flame/burning breath kinda pointless, even though it's nice to have that less than 400 cost unstable flame, which is essentially for free...
nb's and templars both have stamina based class skills that are way better for pvp than what we got unfortunately (not considering pve obviously where unstable and breath are great skills).
i really like the new fossilize and ferocious leap though, great dueling tools!

No, Magicka-DKs got nerfed more than enough. No need to lose the only good skill left.

After testing around on PTS the last couple of days, i think ill go for a Magicka-based glass-cannon build with DW and 2500spelldmg. Defense = Shields.

Care to share any more details? I just feel so squishy in LA. Are you using chains as the gap closer? Warlock/magnus sets? Restore in off bar with shields?

Jaerlach

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

I've seen stam and magicka dps dk to the 14k mark already. I think we'll be fine.

This actually makes me think that people are either in a bad testing field or DKs are still too strong, as the 3 other classes haven't gotten to this point iirc.

Or the players who are theory crafting to be competitve are not sharing their results.

I watch other classes less closely but theyre also being figured out. Its far too early to make any blanket statements on class strength.

Lynx7386

The changes are definitely making me rethink my decision to use DK as a tank ( or any class as a tank, for that matter, way to go zenimax...)

I'll probably be rolling my DK over to 7 medium with a 2hander like all my other characters are =/

Laggus

Armitas wrote: »

How do we feel about this?

Corrosive Armor - While active your attacks ignore 100% of an enemies armor

From

Reduce weapon damage of nearby enemies by 40%

I have recently started using Corrosive Armor in pvp because it's not a ground effect that can be negated. I can run into a flag, tank tons of damage, and lower the damage of my enemies much like a reverse veil. I would personally rather have that then armor penetration.

What do you think about it?

I don't see it being much good when you have to get through damage shields to make that effective.

Armitas

I'm starting to turn around to the idea of the armor penetration. I am starting to see this ultimate in a new way. In a way it is a really strong offensive ultimate because I can drop all my defensive maintenance skills and focus all my effort on damage, even in the middle of a zerg (when it works). Going to have to try it out some more.

Panda244

Armitas wrote: »

I'm starting to turn around to the idea of the armor penetration. I am starting to see this ultimate in a new way. In a way it is a really strong offensive ultimate because I can drop all my defensive maintenance skills and focus all my effort on damage, even in the middle of a zerg (when it works). Going to have to try it out some more.

Except you can't charge it at the rate you used to, so what about your defense when you're charging it..? Gonna sit back at range and weave crushing shock with light attacks to charge it before going in? I just need to figure out what to replace Unstable Flame with for really small fights, Draw Essence for bigger fights obviously, and I love love love the buff to that. But for 1v2/1v3. What to replace Unstable with..... Decisions. Decisions. To be quite honest I'm probably going to use the new Razor Armor morph, because I'm in 5L/2M and could use the defense, plus stacking that shield with Igneous and Harness will tick off @Cody‌

Joking, I won't do that to you Cody

I dunno, my DK won't suffer to heavily in 1.6, definitely love the change to ferocious leap, although damage shields will probably be getting nerfed soon, so not viable option. I think for my main bar Ultimate, I'm gonna use Shifting Standard and for offbar, Ice Comet, as far as skills go, just going to have to replace Unstable Flame with something else, and build is fixed. The sets I have been using are perfect, Warlock/Seduer/Engine Guardian combined with the enchants, let me block as long as I wanted to on live, so to fix that in 1.6 I just need to invest heavily in the whatch-ya-ma-bob system tree thing.

Because of the changes I can see ranged DKs becoming a thing though, S&B/Destro, so they can charge up their ultimates out of danger and then charge in and act generally the same way they do on live. As far as Corrosive Armor goes, I'd never ever use it. Magma Shell is to much of a benefit to allies to use some crappy armor negation thing, combine Bone Surge and Magma Shell for a serious beefy group of friends surrounding you and supporting you. On top of that there's the lovely Igneous Shield.

I might try to mix up my attributes though, being an Imperial. Buffing up my stamina and sacrificing some magicka might do me good, but a lot of people are saying TTK is goofed up in 1.6 so probably going to have to raise my health a bit. Was like 2.9k on live last I checked, without the Emp Bonus, I wish someone would put out a video on all the champion system passives so I can decide what to invest in. I know I'm going to need block cost reduction and stamina cost reduction, I might end up going vampire in 1.6 for Batswarm, cheap ultimate, nice HoT, decent damage. As for CP, I won't have any shortage of those seeing as how neither of my characters completed the main quest, so I'll be able to aimlessly grind quests for XP while the rest of you sorry poor sods have to grind mobs that don't give you jack for experience anymore.

Armitas

Panda244 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I'm starting to turn around to the idea of the armor penetration. I am starting to see this ultimate in a new way. In a way it is a really strong offensive ultimate because I can drop all my defensive maintenance skills and focus all my effort on damage, even in the middle of a zerg (when it works). Going to have to try it out some more.

Except you can't charge it at the rate you used to, so what about your defense when you're charging it..? Gonna sit back at range and weave crushing shock with light attacks to charge it before going in? I just need to figure out what to replace Unstable Flame with for really small fights, Draw Essence for bigger fights obviously, and I love love love the buff to that. But for 1v2/1v3. What to replace Unstable with..... Decisions. Decisions. To be quite honest I'm probably going to use the new Razor Armor morph, because I'm in 5L/2M and could use the defense, plus stacking that shield with Igneous and Harness will tick off

I'm thinking of replacing it with degeneration. +20% spell power, and has a heal, plus a chance for more heals on weapon attacks. I'm going with the volatile armor morph. It applies a dot that triggers valkyn skoria. The dot is about the same as the damage return from the base skill.

I have already started using Volatile armor and I have found something really nice about it. You can use it like a stealth detect pot. It casts immediately so as soon as someone stealths I cast it and they pop right back out because of the aoe damage on cast. As long as I am already on the person if they stealth they will come right back out from the aoe damage.

I was thinking about vampire due to the BOM nerf, but after seen the fighters guild improvement I'm thinking against it. Dawnbreaker of smiting is just fantastic. 100 ultimate, ~6k burst no cast time plus ~6k dot. If you go with dawnbreaker of smiting it improves the damage now, and adds a 6s knock down.

Hang on I wrote some of the champion stuff down. just give me a min.
N'tel

I wrote down the stuff I wanted to focus on, so there is more than is listed. I picked 1 thief, 1 warrior, and 1 mage to put the majority of my points in. I'll mark those with a *, the rest are just ones with good stuff in them. X denotes the upper areas of the line that require a certain amount of points to unlock. If you have 30 CP, then you have 10 to spend on warrior, 10 for mage, 10 for thief.

*Steed
reduce block cost
spell resist
crit resist
X Increase shield armor by 75%
X Chance to restore health on bash

Lady
increase light armor
elemental resist
reduce poison/disease dmg (unknown about heal debuf)
X Reduce stamina cost of break free

Lord
increase inc healing
increase shield strength
increase heavy armor
increase heal potions
X damage shield after potion

*Tower
Reduce stam cost
reduce magicka cost
reduce bash cost
reduce roll cost
X +inspiration (CP xp)

Lover
Magicka Regen
Stam regen

Shadow
Reduce fear duration

*Apprentice
increase elemental damage
increase spell crit damage
lower spell resist
XSpell crit

Atronach
Blade damage
Mace damage
Axe damage
staff damage
X small execute (forget on what, maybe weapon attacks)

Ritual
Armor pen
Physical Crit
increase physical damage
X Weapon Crit

Panda244

Armitas wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I'm starting to turn around to the idea of the armor penetration. I am starting to see this ultimate in a new way. In a way it is a really strong offensive ultimate because I can drop all my defensive maintenance skills and focus all my effort on damage, even in the middle of a zerg (when it works). Going to have to try it out some more.

Except you can't charge it at the rate you used to, so what about your defense when you're charging it..? Gonna sit back at range and weave crushing shock with light attacks to charge it before going in? I just need to figure out what to replace Unstable Flame with for really small fights, Draw Essence for bigger fights obviously, and I love love love the buff to that. But for 1v2/1v3. What to replace Unstable with..... Decisions. Decisions. To be quite honest I'm probably going to use the new Razor Armor morph, because I'm in 5L/2M and could use the defense, plus stacking that shield with Igneous and Harness will tick off

I'm thinking of replacing it with degeneration. +20% spell power, and has a heal, plus a chance for more heals on weapon attacks. I'm going with the volatile armor morph. It applies a dot that triggers valkyn skoria. The dot is about the same as the damage return from the base skill.

I have already started using Volatile armor and I have found something really nice about it. You can use it like a stealth detect pot. It casts immediately so as soon as someone stealths I cast it and they pop right back out because of the aoe damage on cast. As long as I am already on the person if they stealth they will come right back out from the aoe damage.

I was thinking about vampire due to the BOM nerf, but after seen the fighters guild improvement I'm thinking against it. Dawnbreaker of smiting is just fantastic. 100 ultimate, ~6k burst no cast time plus ~6k dot. If you go with dawnbreaker of smiting it improves the damage now, and adds a 6s knock down.

Hang on I wrote some of the champion stuff down. just give me a min.
N'tel

I wrote down the stuff I wanted to focus on, so there is more than is listed. I picked 1 thief, 1 warrior, and 1 mage to put the majority of my points in. I'll mark those with a *, the rest are just ones with good stuff in them. X denotes the upper areas of the line that require a certain amount of points to unlock. If you have 30 CP, then you have 10 to spend on warrior, 10 for mage, 10 for thief.

*Steed
reduce block cost
spell resist
crit resist
X Increase shield armor by 75%
X Chance to restore health on bash

Lady
increase light armor
elemental resist
reduce poison/disease dmg (unknown about heal debuf)
X Reduce stamina cost of break free

Lord
increase inc healing
increase shield strength
increase heavy armor
increase heal potions
X damage shield after potion

*Tower
Reduce stam cost
reduce magicka cost
reduce bash cost
reduce roll cost
X +inspiration (CP xp)

Lover
Magicka Regen
Stam regen

Shadow
Reduce fear duration

*Apprentice
increase elemental damage
increase spell crit damage
lower spell resist
XSpell crit

Atronach
Blade damage
Mace damage
Axe damage
staff damage
X small execute (forget on what, maybe weapon attacks)

Ritual
Armor pen
Physical Crit
increase physical damage
X Weapon Crit

Some nice passives in Lady and Steed.... And Dawnbreaker only deals 6k? Is that with or without the +60% to Vampires/Undead, seems kind of low... But the low cost is pretty nice for it's damage. Might use that instead of Ice Comet, but Meteor OP in 1.6.... And it's pretty, vanity counts you know! I'd use Volatile, but I don't use Valkyn in PvP even though I have it, they can block or reflect the meteor, it doesn't go through block, and it doesn't deal enough damage-to-proc ratio to warrant using it all the time, I also don't use burning talons and probably won't use Cinder Storm next patch, so I don't have any DoTs aside from Shifting or Ice Comet if I use those. But Choking Talons + Draw Essence = Oh so much tankiness.

Armitas

6k nonvamp and a 6k dot with it for a total of 12k damage for nonvamp. Still has the 60% more damage for vamps. Silver shard proc rate is 30% now too but I keep forgetting to check it on pts. I need to check trap beast as well.

I forgot to mention evil hunter has 20% crit on it like mage light so a lot more people are going to have it on their bar.

Panda244

Armitas wrote: »

6k nonvamp and a 6k dot with it for a total of 12k damage for nonvamp. Still has the 60% more damage for vamps. Silver shard proc rate is 30% now too but I keep forgetting to check it on pts. I need to check trap beast as well.

I forgot to mention evil hunter has 20% crit on it like mage light so a lot more people are going to have it on their bar.

Yeah no vampire for me then, I dunno... I'd really have to get back in game and check Crassy on the PTS or in 1.6 to make any real decisions.. All I know is I don't need to change my sets, self-sustaining build is self-sustaining! :disagree:

N'tel on the other hand, don't have to change her build at all, Sap Tank is still sappy and tanky, and if I get bored I can just spec her into Sword/Board bow for the troll, because surprise attack and ambush are stam based now. 12k Lethal Arrow followed by 6k Ambush and a bunch of 8k Surprise Attacks? I'll take it.

Cody

Panda244 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I'm starting to turn around to the idea of the armor penetration. I am starting to see this ultimate in a new way. In a way it is a really strong offensive ultimate because I can drop all my defensive maintenance skills and focus all my effort on damage, even in the middle of a zerg (when it works). Going to have to try it out some more.

Except you can't charge it at the rate you used to, so what about your defense when you're charging it..? Gonna sit back at range and weave crushing shock with light attacks to charge it before going in? I just need to figure out what to replace Unstable Flame with for really small fights, Draw Essence for bigger fights obviously, and I love love love the buff to that. But for 1v2/1v3. What to replace Unstable with..... Decisions. Decisions. To be quite honest I'm probably going to use the new Razor Armor morph, because I'm in 5L/2M and could use the defense, plus stacking that shield with Igneous and Harness will tick off @Cody‌

Joking, I won't do that to you Cody

I dunno, my DK won't suffer to heavily in 1.6, definitely love the change to ferocious leap, although damage shields will probably be getting nerfed soon, so not viable option. I think for my main bar Ultimate, I'm gonna use Shifting Standard and for offbar, Ice Comet, as far as skills go, just going to have to replace Unstable Flame with something else, and build is fixed. The sets I have been using are perfect, Warlock/Seduer/Engine Guardian combined with the enchants, let me block as long as I wanted to on live, so to fix that in 1.6 I just need to invest heavily in the whatch-ya-ma-bob system tree thing.

Because of the changes I can see ranged DKs becoming a thing though, S&B/Destro, so they can charge up their ultimates out of danger and then charge in and act generally the same way they do on live. As far as Corrosive Armor goes, I'd never ever use it. Magma Shell is to much of a benefit to allies to use some crappy armor negation thing, combine Bone Surge and Magma Shell for a serious beefy group of friends surrounding you and supporting you. On top of that there's the lovely Igneous Shield.

I might try to mix up my attributes though, being an Imperial. Buffing up my stamina and sacrificing some magicka might do me good, but a lot of people are saying TTK is goofed up in 1.6 so probably going to have to raise my health a bit. Was like 2.9k on live last I checked, without the Emp Bonus, I wish someone would put out a video on all the champion system passives so I can decide what to invest in. I know I'm going to need block cost reduction and stamina cost reduction, I might end up going vampire in 1.6 for Batswarm, cheap ultimate, nice HoT, decent damage. As for CP, I won't have any shortage of those seeing as how neither of my characters completed the main quest, so I'll be able to aimlessly grind quests for XP while the rest of you sorry poor sods have to grind mobs that don't give you jack for experience anymore.

don't make me unleash the power of the dark side

Domander

Armitas wrote: »

How do we feel about this?

Corrosive Armor - While active your attacks ignore 100% of an enemies armor

From

Reduce weapon damage of nearby enemies by 40%

I have recently started using Corrosive Armor in pvp because it's not a ground effect that can be negated. I can run into a flag, tank tons of damage, and lower the damage of my enemies much like a reverse veil. I would personally rather have that then armor penetration.

What do you think about it?

I think you way way way way overestimate how much that weapon damage reduction helped.

The new effect is freaking great by comparison.

Jaerlach

Master destro and the new destructive touch is your unstable proxy.

Vanzen

Jaerlach wrote: »

Master destro and the new destructive touch is your unstable proxy.

Btw, was wondering as Dunmer Fire DK what was better now pvp wise ? Crushing shock or Destructive Reach ?

Jaerlach

Vanzen wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

Master destro and the new destructive touch is your unstable proxy.

Btw, was wondering as Dunmer Fire DK what was better now pvp wise ? Crushing shock or Destructive Reach ?

Whip whip whip.

rophez_ESO

Ouch. 1.6.2 nerfed us some more.

Yuke

R.I.P.

Armitas

DK - The Chronicles of Nerf, continues. We don't even need people to complain about stuff anymore, they will just nerf stuff for the heck of it...like ashcloud.

Armitas

I had thought corrosive armor would give spell penetration because armor now gives spell resist, and the wording is ignore 100% of the enemies armor.

You get 0% spell penetration with corrosive armor and I think that should be changed to 100% penetration spell or armor.

While testing I also noticed that my damage increased 43% after the target went under 42%. I have no idea why, I was not using any molten armaments. This test was against a resource guard.

100% enemy health - Light Attack = 504 Whip =1392
42% enemy health - Light Attack = 719 Whip = 1987

Does anyone know why? I only have S/B and DK skills slotted.

rophez_ESO

Not even a mention in the livestream for DK. Everyone still considers us OP, even on PTS?

Yuke

I gave up.