DK 1.6 Discussion

DisgracefulMind

LonePirate wrote: »

So far I am hating the changes to Ultimate generation. Prior to 1.6, I could build Ultimate quickly while using Talons especially when combined with any Lava Whip skill/morph or the Fire Ring skill of the Inferno staff. Now it is tremendously slower - not a little slower but significantly slower. When those changes are combined with the cost increase for Standard of Might, then I am dropping a lot fewer Standards.

I posted this in another thread, but felt it relevant enough to copy and paste it here:

I'm not sure about other classes, but as a DK I haven't had any problems gaining ultimate; however, I am running the Blood Spawn set. I have modified my build, though, to include the use of Fossilize, which grants me 2 ultimate per successful cast. That, combined with my use of igneous shield, can successfully grant me 4 ultimate if I combo the two by CC'ing my opponent with fossilize, then popping my shields. This constant flow, combined with my Blood Spawn proc, allows my Take Flight ultimate to pop rather quickly. Mind you, I weave in light and heavy attacks often, particularly when I go full out offensive assault with my burning embers and flame lash combos, so I'm keeping the ultimate gain buff up at all times. I suppose I could use a fossilize + obsidian shard combo to add in even more ultimate gain, but I prefer to still allow myself a gap closer on my bar just in case. This is, of course, more of a 1v1-2 build, but it's been quite effective. A heavy armor DK and I (being all light armor still) had a near hour long duel last night on PTS, and even he (or she) was able to use their ultimate quite often. I would say I used Take Flight a good 15 times and my Shifting Standard perhaps 4 times. So, in my opinion, if you're paying attention to your passives, and making sure to keep your ultimate gain up, you should be completely fine with your ultimates.


Btw, I'm all LA still.

DisgracefulMind

Poxheart wrote: »

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

With the Ultimate change I don't feel like the standard increase ult cost was needed.

I forsee a lot of DKs going shifting and if you time it right you can get the double duration.

Did they fix the shifting banner? last time i tested i couldnt switch bars and still shift so i switched to standard of might

I've been using shifting standard for a long time & regularly drop it, switch to another bar for some single target DPS, then switch back to drop it a second time.

I have always used shifting standard since I first made my DK

I love it, and now other DKs are going to start seeing why it's the better banner :P

RoamingRiverElk

First I was intrigued by the changes to Fiery Grip from PvPers perspective. Then I realized how unreliable it would still be as a magicka gap closer since there are many instances where you simply cannot activate it due to the limitations placed on it when it was nerfed.

Domander

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

First I was intrigued by the changes to Fiery Grip from PvPers perspective. Then I realized how unreliable it would still be as a magicka gap closer since there are many instances where you simply cannot activate it due to the limitations placed on it when it was nerfed.

Fiery grip needs to not give CC immunity, or it needs to stun, then it would be perfect. Give it it's own immunity if needed.

Fruity_Ninja

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I have always used shifting standard since I first made my DK

I love it, and now other DKs are going to start seeing why it's the better banner :P

Why exactly is it the better banner?

Nijjion

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I have always used shifting standard since I first made my DK

I love it, and now other DKs are going to start seeing why it's the better banner :P

Why exactly is it the better banner?

It's not better in PvE as the other gives a 20% damage increase to all attacks. Though that might change in 1.6 due to the cost of the standard and ult change.
Another argument is you can get 2 standards for the price of 1 as when you reset the position of banner with shifting it resets the time so if you time it right you could get around 30-35 seconds per standard ult.

However PvP is where shifting is nice due to people just roll dodge out of banners and you can move it... though no need to move it in keeps most the time due to places being so narrow. So Shifting would lose out here with you doing more damage but not forgetting the double duration as well.

Fruity_Ninja

Nijjion wrote: »

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I have always used shifting standard since I first made my DK

I love it, and now other DKs are going to start seeing why it's the better banner :P

Why exactly is it the better banner?

It's not better in PvE as the other gives a 20% damage increase to all attacks. Though that might change in 1.6 due to the cost of the standard and ult change.
Another argument is you can get 2 standards for the price of 1 as when you reset the position of banner with shifting it resets the time so if you time it right you could get around 30-35 seconds per standard ult.

However PvP is where shifting is nice due to people just roll dodge out of banners and you can move it... though no need to move it in keeps most the time due to places being so narrow. So Shifting would lose out here with you doing more damage but not forgetting the double duration as well.

I see,

So technically you can get an endless banner if you shift at the right time? Or at least a really really long one...

Is it a pain in the ass to move around? I think I need to test this on PTS, I didn't realise the moving reset the timer, hence I've avoided that morph thinking it was a pretty bad option vs. the extra damage.

Xupacabra

If the skill is there is to be usefull, if it will be nerfed to the point of marginal use then i sugest, remove it from the tree.

Armitas

When I tested shifting standard I would generate ultimate during the banner shift phase however every relocation consumed all that ultimate. At times I even got enough for a second banner but I could never run two banners at once because moving the banner would consume any of my ultimate.

I didn't like it because I could have had 2 banners at once along with 2 battle roars.

Lynx7386

I'm not sure what to make of the changes as a 7/7 heavy tank DK. It seems like resources are going to be a lot more difficult to manage now, especially stamina (my DK split attributes and enchants between magicka and health so she could use class abilities more often, stamina was reserved entirely for blocking but now more abilities will use it).

I may end up having to give up on tanking and just go medium/dps on my dragonknight now.

Armitas

Purge

Reduced the cost of Purge by approximately 20%.

I wonder how this will play out given our class is a dot class. This may also put cleanse low enough to be in play and cause our dots to result in a 21% max health heal instead of damage.

Xsorus

I've always preferred shifting standard over regular standard..simply for forcing people to move if i needed it.

By the way, if you don't drop Shifting Standard twice, any Ultimate you saved up stays.

Lynx7386

Anyone on the pts having success with 7 heavy and a shield, or 7 medium and a 2hander?

Shadesofkin

My build is currently using 5 heavy 2 light Sword and Board, but I am going to start trying 7 heavy soon.

DisgracefulMind

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I have always used shifting standard since I first made my DK

I love it, and now other DKs are going to start seeing why it's the better banner :P

Why exactly is it the better banner?

It's not better in PvE as the other gives a 20% damage increase to all attacks. Though that might change in 1.6 due to the cost of the standard and ult change.
Another argument is you can get 2 standards for the price of 1 as when you reset the position of banner with shifting it resets the time so if you time it right you could get around 30-35 seconds per standard ult.

However PvP is where shifting is nice due to people just roll dodge out of banners and you can move it... though no need to move it in keeps most the time due to places being so narrow. So Shifting would lose out here with you doing more damage but not forgetting the double duration as well.

I see,

So technically you can get an endless banner if you shift at the right time? Or at least a really really long one...

Is it a pain in the ass to move around? I think I need to test this on PTS, I didn't realise the moving reset the timer, hence I've avoided that morph thinking it was a pretty bad option vs. the extra damage.

It's easy to move, you just hit R again and it refreshes the duration and the synergy can be reactivated.

Mantic0r3

molten whip seems to be bugged, when i equip it the tooltip dmg from other ardant flame abilities doesnt increase.

Armitas

From what I am hearing the -15% max magicka cost of inferno is actually intended and not working, in that it's not reducing magicka right now.

If this has a -15% max magicka cost then why would I use it.

If I used mage light I would have the same crit and 20% more max magicka than inferno.

If I was in a stamina build or hybrid build I would lose 15% of my weakest stat (magicka) to gain 20% weapon crit, or I could just use evil hunter and get the same crit, along with a lot more damage, and stamina recovery to boot.

So the question is why would I use this instead of the other?

Mantic0r3

no idea if its intended or not but right now it launches the fireball at each enemy in range making it a huge aoe dot ^^ if it works correctly then thats how its worth the magicka, if its only supposed to hit 1 the dmg is too low for -15% magicka

also the 112 magicka gain when the fireball kills something is rather ***, neither does the dot kill something nor do you even see the 112 if it would xD

Nijjion

I think the magicka gain on the morph of inferno should be changed to something else or buff/fix it.

It seems very pointless in a way even if it did work. Maybe raising it to 2k magicka on a kill (if you can even get a kill with it), it might be worth it.

rophez_ESO

So we got some buffs to damage, but huge nerfs as well. The "cool new skills" we got are rather worthless it seems. Not a good update for DK.

Tarikko

As a PVE Tank DK.. I got the shaft... big time

Armitas

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

no idea if its intended or not but right now it launches the fireball at each enemy in range making it a huge aoe dot ^^ if it works correctly then thats how its worth the magicka, if its only supposed to hit 1 the dmg is too low for -15% magicka

It hits all enemies in range with the fireball, or rather each enemy in range gets a fireball. It hits for 700 and to the best of my recollection that is 700 crit damage, not sure about the base. The dot last for 8 seconds but is refreshed every 5 seconds.

(The rest of this post is based on incorrect mechanics and not correct)
700 crit damage is I suppose 70 crit damage live. To get that 70 damage you lose damage on all of your other skills. So if you are damage stacking with crushing shock, "unstable flame", engulfing flame then you lose damage 3x at once because all those skills are hitting at once plus you are that much closer to oom.

I compared "unstable flame" on ESO head with a base magicka of 2,300, then used magelight and then instead inferno. Here were the damage differences from the magicka loss.
Mage light = 260initial 840 dot
Inferno = 236 initial 768 dot
Total loss 96 damage. And that is just for "Unstable Flame" you would have to add engulfing flame and crushing shock loss as well.

(I know unstable is stamina now, just making live reference)

Mantic0r3

Armitas wrote: »

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

no idea if its intended or not but right now it launches the fireball at each enemy in range making it a huge aoe dot ^^ if it works correctly then thats how its worth the magicka, if its only supposed to hit 1 the dmg is too low for -15% magicka

It hits all enemies in range with the fireball, or rather each enemy in range gets a fireball. It hits for 700 and to the best of my recollection that is 700 crit damage, not sure about the base. The dot last for 8 seconds but is refreshed every 5 seconds.

700 crit damage is I suppose 70 crit damage live. To get that 70 damage you lose damage on all of your other skills. So if you are damage stacking with crushing shock, unstable flame, engulfing flame then you lose damage 3x at once because all those skills are hitting at once plus you are that much closer to oom.

I didnt write any dmg numbers because they scale. But for your argument.

1. its (in your case) 700 dmg per sec on every mob close to you without you doing anything (cast time is important after all)
2. it triggers all "on dmg" effects like siphon spirit or valkyn
3. the -15% magicka does not decrease your other dmg skills as it will not decrease your max magicka pool it only stops you from regenerating over 85% of your max magicka



the magicka reg on kill is still stupid though

edit: checked its 500 and 800 (crit) for me

Armitas

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

3. the -15% magicka does not decrease your other dmg skills as it will not decrease your max magicka pool it only stops you from regenerating over 85% of your max magicka

I always forget about that part, thanks for correcting me. Thats good at least. I think it will still hurt stamina/hybrid users though. Yeah that magicka regen is just non existent.
_____
The dps is really good with Skoria for sure. Just on the skill alone though I don't think 50 damage a second is balanced with losing 15% or really 20% magicka. I mean, I would still take it so long as I can get away with the magicka loss, but it still seems overly expensive. If it's got to be there maybe make it 10 or 5% then when you add magelight to it for 10% more crit it will lower the loss by gaining 5% magicka.

I never understood why these types of things always come with sacrifice when you are already sacrificing an extra skill slot to run them.

Jaerlach

Banner cost is aimed at pve where the 20% buff deals 2 or 3x the damage the actual standard does.

IMHO anyway

cschwingeb14_ESO

I think molten weapons is going to be used extensively, and not just for the execute. Its perfect for a "regeneration phase" where you heavy attack weave instead of light attack for about 10 seconds after rebuffing.

Then 100% uptime and heavy attacks during execute phase. We'll see how that ends up working

TagaParti

My DK just got loaded with options to deal damage. We are what we are, Kings in ESO.

rophez_ESO

I notice this thread gets buried really fast. Are all you DKs just rolling up templars, or are people really just OK with all the changes?

Maybe I missed something, but my time on test with my NA character (v14 DK with lot's of end-game gear) was less than positive:

• Bonuses to some fire ability damage that doesn't remotely make up for our loss in ultimate usage.
• Loss of one of our most unique and powerful abilities - good bye cinder storm.
• They gave out executes to the classes that were lacking them, and we get one that is a buff that needs to be recast every 7 seconds and only affects heavy attacks. Compare the damage to that of the new Templar ranged execute...
• Gave us two stamina abilities that are DOTs.
• Our damage shield that is supposed to make us heal competitively with Templars scales off health.

So, AM I missing something? Maybe it's possible to run a fun stamina build now, but don't kid yourself about what you are losing - good luck keeping purge/reflect/dragon blood/whips/talons, etc. going.

TagaParti

rophez_ESO wrote: »

I notice this thread gets buried really fast. Are all you DKs just rolling up templars, or are people really just OK with all the changes?

Maybe I missed something, but my time on test with my NA character (v14 DK with lot's of end-game gear) was less than positive:

• Bonuses to some fire ability damage that doesn't remotely make up for our loss in ultimate usage.
• Loss of one of our most unique and powerful abilities - good bye cinder storm.
• They gave out executes to the classes that were lacking them, and we get one that is a buff that needs to be recast every 7 seconds and only affects heavy attacks. Compare the damage to that of the new Templar ranged execute...
• Gave us two stamina abilities that are DOTs.
• Our damage shield that is supposed to make us heal competitively with Templars scales off health.

So, AM I missing something? Maybe it's possible to run a fun stamina build now, but don't kid yourself about what you are losing - good luck keeping purge/reflect/dragon blood/whips/talons, etc. going.

visit my threads buddy! you need some enlightenment.

rophez_ESO

TagaParti wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

I notice this thread gets buried really fast. Are all you DKs just rolling up templars, or are people really just OK with all the changes?

Maybe I missed something, but my time on test with my NA character (v14 DK with lot's of end-game gear) was less than positive:

• Bonuses to some fire ability damage that doesn't remotely make up for our loss in ultimate usage.
• Loss of one of our most unique and powerful abilities - good bye cinder storm.
• They gave out executes to the classes that were lacking them, and we get one that is a buff that needs to be recast every 7 seconds and only affects heavy attacks. Compare the damage to that of the new Templar ranged execute...
• Gave us two stamina abilities that are DOTs.
• Our damage shield that is supposed to make us heal competitively with Templars scales off health.

So, AM I missing something? Maybe it's possible to run a fun stamina build now, but don't kid yourself about what you are losing - good luck keeping purge/reflect/dragon blood/whips/talons, etc. going.

visit my threads buddy! you need some enlightenment.

Are you talking about your thread listing all the useless Earthen Heart skills? Yeah, I agree...