DK 1.6 Discussion

Lhorion

What's your feeling.
What will be fun/playable/strong?

Magica - light?
Magica - heavy?
Stamina - medium?
Stamina - heavy?
Hybrid?

Tarikko

Stamina - Heavy looks like the way to go..

We need more feedback from DK's on PTS

Shadesofkin

I've rebuilt my tank. I turned off WW since it no longer provides me with Ultimate, but I'm going to be running into dungeons later to see what I see.

Armitas

Lhorion wrote: »

What's your feeling.
What will be fun/playable/strong?

Magica - light?
Magica - heavy?
Stamina - medium?
Stamina - heavy?
Hybrid?

Light armor is now 1/4 that of heavy. I am not sure if light was nerfed or heavy buffed to achieve that gap. If light armor was nerfed then it would be really difficult to survive without razer armor, however if heavy was buffed then light armor would provide the same protection as before.

Unless there is something in the champ system I feel like heavy will still be too resource restrictive. Now if you could make a heavy attack build with molten weapons then you might be able to get away with the loss of resource sustainability. In fact the necessary heavy attacks themselves will restore your resources.

LonePirate

So far I am hating the changes to Ultimate generation. Prior to 1.6, I could build Ultimate quickly while using Talons especially when combined with any Lava Whip skill/morph or the Fire Ring skill of the Inferno staff. Now it is tremendously slower - not a little slower but significantly slower. When those changes are combined with the cost increase for Standard of Might, then I am dropping a lot fewer Standards.

Fruity_Ninja

Armitas wrote: »

*
I also wonder about Molten Whip, does it still only provide spell power, and does it not count as a minor sorcery?

Yes it says it increases spell power when slotted of ardent flame abilities. Having said that, when I slot it with the other ardent flame abilities, I notice that the tooltip numbers don't change.

Shouldn't they increase? Or am I reading that wrong? Or I am right and it is just an interface bug?

OtarTheMad

LonePirate wrote: »

So far I am hating the changes to Ultimate generation. Prior to 1.6, I could build Ultimate quickly while using Talons especially when combined with any Lava Whip skill/morph or the Fire Ring skill of the Inferno staff. Now it is tremendously slower - not a little slower but significantly slower. When those changes are combined with the cost increase for Standard of Might, then I am dropping a lot fewer Standards.

Maybe it's your build? I don't know. I only hate that using siege doesn't increase ultimate, other than that I like the changes. I have to use light and heavy attacks to recharge my magicka/stamina (depending on weapon) anyway so I usually get my ultimate fairly quickly.

xMovingTarget

Tarikko wrote: »

Stamina - Heavy looks like the way to go..

We need more feedback from DK's on PTS

I will give feedback later when we get our Chars on pts. its obnoxious to assume anybody can make any good tests with that ridiculous templates..

LonePirate

OtarTheMad wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

So far I am hating the changes to Ultimate generation. Prior to 1.6, I could build Ultimate quickly while using Talons especially when combined with any Lava Whip skill/morph or the Fire Ring skill of the Inferno staff. Now it is tremendously slower - not a little slower but significantly slower. When those changes are combined with the cost increase for Standard of Might, then I am dropping a lot fewer Standards.

Maybe it's your build? I don't know. I only hate that using siege doesn't increase ultimate, other than that I like the changes. I have to use light and heavy attacks to recharge my magicka/stamina (depending on weapon) anyway so I usually get my ultimate fairly quickly.

My build has not changed as I am using the exact same weapons, armor and skills on the PTS as on the live server. I even put 10 CPs into increasing my Crit % and 5 CPs into increasing my Staff damage. PVE Ultimate generation such as when killing trash mobs in dungeons and grinding Spellscar is an insult now.

C0pp3rhead

Nijjion wrote: »

With the Ultimate change I don't feel like the standard increase ult cost was needed.

I would disagree. With damage, added effects, and synergies comparable (not the same, but comparable) to to the Templar's Nova, many were surprised to see that Standard was so inexpensive (OR conversely, that Nova was so expensive). As a Templar, I wanted to see Nova become less expensive. It seems that Standard's cost has been re-evaluated in terms of the (very good) damage it deals.Had they made Nova less expensive, the healing springs spam would be even more prolific.

Moreover, it seems that if a player is smart about generating ulti, they can do some amazing things. There were reports (no proof here, just anecdotes) that some builds were able to generate ultimate quickly enough to throw down a Standard, then throw down a 2nd Standard before the 1st one had expired.

Between the damage & the (almost) spammability, ZOS decided to bring the cost in line with other comparable ultimates.

Lhorion

Forgot to say: I mean pvp Who cares about pve tzzz!

Armitas

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

*
I also wonder about Molten Whip, does it still only provide spell power, and does it not count as a minor sorcery?

Yes it says it increases spell power when slotted of ardent flame abilities. Having said that, when I slot it with the other ardent flame abilities, I notice that the tooltip numbers don't change.

Shouldn't they increase? Or am I reading that wrong? Or I am right and it is just an interface bug?

I was worried about that. With two of our morphs now favoring stamina, and consequently weapon power, molten whip appears to be twice nerfed now. First it was nerfed into only the ardent flame line, and now it appears to be further nerfed into only certain parts of the ardent flame line.

JuL1aN

Kilandros wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Oblivion got a big buff and Igneous Weapons looks like an interesting buff.

Pity about Cinder Storm, though.

Don't talk about oblivion if you never seen it or used it, we will see if it is a "buff"

Oblivion was garbage. This is a buff.

Your Class = Sorc?

Rylana

Light Armor Destro/1HS Magicka still seems strong. It takes a crapload more damage, but the damage output is still top notch. Ultimate gen seemed on par vs single or double targets. Ultimate gen slows down compared to live once you cross the 3 target threshold (it seems slower now because 3 or more targets gave you a buttload of ultimate on live)

One thing I noticed very very quickly is that stamina regen is a must have stat. Not just pool, but regen. If youre not at at last 1000 youre going to die very rapidly. This means either have GDB up full time or build to stam entirely.

Testing ongoing but my live DK build is still strong, not as strong, but with a couple minor tweaks I should be able to bring it back up to where it was in live.

Devouring swarm may now be mandatory as well, due to the need to heal more often. That is something long term to look into as I am not a vamp.

Poxheart

Armitas wrote: »

*Fiery grip....Really bad move. I go to pull a guy out of a zerg, but he's rooted, so now I get pulled into his zerg. The skill was bad enough after the Y axis nerf but now it's broken and likely to get you killed. That and it's now a potential grappling hook for getting over walls via immovable npcs. (you can still pull people up keep walls even after the Y axis nerf)

Yeah I said the same thing when I read this. Why would I even put a point into a skill that might move me someplace I don't want to go.

Poxheart

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

With the Ultimate change I don't feel like the standard increase ult cost was needed.

I forsee a lot of DKs going shifting and if you time it right you can get the double duration.

Did they fix the shifting banner? last time i tested i couldnt switch bars and still shift so i switched to standard of might

I've been using shifting standard for a long time & regularly drop it, switch to another bar for some single target DPS, then switch back to drop it a second time.

OtarTheMad

LonePirate wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

So far I am hating the changes to Ultimate generation. Prior to 1.6, I could build Ultimate quickly while using Talons especially when combined with any Lava Whip skill/morph or the Fire Ring skill of the Inferno staff. Now it is tremendously slower - not a little slower but significantly slower. When those changes are combined with the cost increase for Standard of Might, then I am dropping a lot fewer Standards.

Maybe it's your build? I don't know. I only hate that using siege doesn't increase ultimate, other than that I like the changes. I have to use light and heavy attacks to recharge my magicka/stamina (depending on weapon) anyway so I usually get my ultimate fairly quickly.

My build has not changed as I am using the exact same weapons, armor and skills on the PTS as on the live server. I even put 10 CPs into increasing my Crit % and 5 CPs into increasing my Staff damage. PVE Ultimate generation such as when killing trash mobs in dungeons and grinding Spellscar is an insult now.

Hm, I will have to test my DK a little more extensively to see how it differs from live. I made a DK template that was light armor and destro staff, got ultimate up pretty good but that was in PvP against no more than one or two at a time. I am a pure tank though, at least until that drives me nuts. I will say as a tank I do miss my Cinder Storm miss chance but I'll adjust.

Soris

Dragon Leap is so damn OP and such low cost. Why?? ;_;

Fruity_Ninja

Armitas wrote: »

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

*
I also wonder about Molten Whip, does it still only provide spell power, and does it not count as a minor sorcery?

Yes it says it increases spell power when slotted of ardent flame abilities. Having said that, when I slot it with the other ardent flame abilities, I notice that the tooltip numbers don't change.

Shouldn't they increase? Or am I reading that wrong? Or I am right and it is just an interface bug?

I was worried about that. With two of our morphs now favoring stamina, and consequently weapon power, molten whip appears to be twice nerfed now. First it was nerfed into only the ardent flame line, and now it appears to be further nerfed into only certain parts of the ardent flame line.

I just /feedback in game about it now, it's certainly a bug.

There is many bugs in the current version of 1.6 PTS, I'd say we'll have a bit of a wait until live.

Nijjion

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Moreover, it seems that if a player is smart about generating ulti, they can do some amazing things. There were reports (no proof here, just anecdotes) that some builds were able to generate ultimate quickly enough to throw down a Standard, then throw down a 2nd Standard before the 1st one had expired.

Between the damage & the (almost) spammability, ZOS decided to bring the cost in line with other comparable ultimates.

Just in case you didn't know ultimate regen will only regen once you do a light and heavy attack and it's 3 ult every second for 8 seconds (refreshes every attack). There are a few buffs to increase this but no more than 6 ult a second.

With what I quoted with you I'm really confused with this it's like you don't know that ultimate regeneration has been changed that's why I explained it up above....Well I've done 2 ultimates many times before in 1.5 but that will be impossible in 1.6 due to how ultimate regenerates so that doesn't help your argument for the standard nerf with cost.

As I said there pretty much was 0 reason or if there is a reason it's just hitting a person when they are already down. There was no need in my opinion as I said before.

Maybe Nova should of been made cheaper, or maybe Sorc/NB ults should be increased as well with standard? Standard with the Ult regen changes is now in line with the other Ults I would say. Though it isn't that great in PvP because it can be countered by 1 roll dodge, there are others that aren't as easily countered and cheaper.

Armitas

I find that almost all of my banners get immediately evacuated or immediately negated. 250 ultimate wasted in 1 second. The synergy at 2.5 just isn't going to happen unless people are stacking on a dime which they theoretically should not be right now.

I feel like the damage buff and damage reduction from this morph should now stick on the player not the banner for this increased cost. That way if it's negated or evacuated you still have something besides a wasted pile of ultimate.

What this change does is make Vampire a clear and almost necessary choice if you want an aoe ultimate for a group. The fire damage just got nerfed by 10%, and there is fire resist in the champ system, I'm a nord so that is -6% more, and less damage as your health gets lower like a reverse execute. Oh yeah and it doesn't get negated every time you use it.

I really don't want to be a vampire, but the Twilight Movies just aren't a good enough excuse anymore.

OtarTheMad

They have seemed to fix and then nerf tank DKs. Cinder Storm- useful but not like it once was. Still on my bar though for now. Standard- like @Armitas said it doesn't seem to be the same... almost a scare tactic more than anything but still useful if you time it right. Blocking- Costs a lot to just block which is fine but as a tank I don't do much DPS so it's benefits me to block more then attack. Maybe I can build a hybrid medium/heavy build that will help out. Heavy Armor- feels like Heavy Armor, I like the change. And loving the redesigned Orc armor my Orc DK thanks you. Ult generation- I like it but I will have to adjust my fighting style to include a few more light/heavy attacks... not a big deal though really.

Overall first impressions of my tank DK is that I have to do some adjusting and toying around with sets, where to put champion points, whats on my bar etc. to make this work like it once did. DKs got a huge buff though compared to my Sorc so I am not complaining. Like the changes.

Oughash

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Stamina DK gonna be good

They were already pretty good

I'm actually interested in Dual Wield now on DK hehe

I think this may be a thing. The new DW skill which increases speed and adds 20% reduction against AoE demands extensive testing. Throw in the new stamina flame skills, the new cinder storm for mag to stam conversion and area denial, and flurry or steel tornado for an execute....

Light/med hybrid anyone?

Nijjion

I want to try a stam build, though wondering if Skoria will still be any good as you will lose out on a few dots.

Would be a shame as Skoria got a sort of buff with AoE caps changed.

Twin slashes, caltrops, cinder Talons and unstable flame would still be good still I guess for it but lose out on the a few aoe skills that would proc it.

Though looking into the changes do agree some big potential for stam build on DK now.

ArconSeptim

I can say that standard is much expensive now and the ultimate generation especially if you tank is bad.

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO

hmm i'm not a big fan of the new fiery grip, would've preferred to get a morph that always pulls yourself to the target, so that dk's finally get a reliable gap closer allowing them to use dw in pvp. i mean, yeah sure, it's possible now but still not that great..might have to test this more. i was also 100% sure we'd get a stamina morph for lava whip, but unstable flame/burning breath are fine too. not sure about oblivion now, as i would need to run it on both bars, so i'm essentially trading 2 slots for 10% crit. the damage itself isn't really significant. on the other hand, i really don't like the molten weapons change, so that's a free slot...
dragon leap seems to be amazing, that shield is crazy.

Bashev

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO wrote: »

dragon leap seems to be amazing, that shield is crazy.

How much is the shield? Cause I play on EU and I use templates so I cannot check that skill.

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO

Bashev wrote: »

mauritius.krebsb16_ESO wrote: »

dragon leap seems to be amazing, that shield is crazy.

How much is the shield? Cause I play on EU and I use templates so I cannot check that skill.

i'm also playing on eu and using the template, so i haven't unlocked it yet either. but i saw it on stream and the shield granted 102% of max health for 12 seconds iirc

Orchish

Banner is very easy to roll out of, i have no idea why the cost was increased. I have now removed it from my bar, 250 for a ult that anyone with any common sense will easily avoid with a tap of a button is just not good enough for me.

Cinder storm was a huge nerf for me, i am a tank and the 30% miss chance will be missed greatly, i have now removed this from my bar.

Firely grip? unless they ever allow us to pull down archers from walls again it'll never be used by me in PvP.

Scales has been nerfed to 4 projectiles over 4 seconds, in 1v1 this is still fine and not a problem, it's only a problem now when you have the lethal arrow spammers hitting you, still i can live with this change and still find the skill too good to remove from my bar.

Dragon leap with the shield morph is nice, i'll be using this to help with resource management as a heavy armour user the changes have done nothing to help me manage resources. In PvP you'll always be outlasted by a competent player when he/she is in medium/light.

Talons buff is hardly a buff, it was nerfed something like 3 times since beta. fine as it is.

I won't go over the rest, my overall opinion is pretty much undecided right now. As a EU player i am stuck with these awful templates with terrible warrior set for heavy. i can't get over my beloved cinder storm being utterly destroyed though, this was a skill i found useful in both PvE and PvP, Really disappointed over that change. It was very easy for players to avoid and i never once saw anyone complain about it, no idea why they changed it.

Werewolf will be dropped as i only used it for the ult gen which is now removed. I may even throw my dress back on and reacquire my batman suit. Until ZoS actually gets EU characters on the PTS can't really decide yet. I need my own gear to work with.

Bashev

Orchish wrote: »

Werewolf will be dropped as i only used it for the ult gen which is now removed. I may even throw my dress back on and reacquire my batman suit. Until ZoS actually gets EU characters on the PTS can't really decide yet. I need my own gear to work with.

This made me laugh out loudly.