Update 44 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of September 30:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – September 30, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – September 30, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
100 crowns for each prior month for subscribers. (WOW! 250+ AGREES!)
-
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm fine with what they are giving us. They technically don't have to give us anything. I will continue to pay for the sub, and will get more crowns as time goes on. Plus... even with as many agrees you have here, it still is a very very very miniscule minority.
Have there been many other posts to get 175+ "agrees"?
I tried to find a post about not being eligible for the Senche Mount or the Mask of Cheerful Slaughter that has contained anywhere near this number of "agrees" and have come up short. If you're able to provide this information, I'll stop mentioning how many people agree with this topic because I think the number says quite a bit.
If it takes 25 or so agrees to get ZOS to change their mind about the Senche Mount or Mask of Cheerful Slaughter... then why doesn't 175+ agrees change their mind about this? I think the number of agrees on this topic, compared to similar topics about the Senche Mount and Mask of Cheerful Slaugher certainly adds to the conversation about this being an insult and the message they are sending if a change isn't made.
You really believe that most of the players that are currently subscribed to the game are here on the forums? What is 200 to the 770kish players that are subscribed? An absent answer to this is going to be taken against this argument as someone that is fine with whatever they decide.
I never said that most of the subbed players are on the forum... did I? I was just comparing the activity on THIS post to activity on other post that have actually had a response from ZOS and have changed ZOS' mind about their policy/reward.
This 100 Crowns issue has MORE community (ACTUAL community) support than the Senche issue or the Mask issue, yet both of those got action from ZOS. This one? nope.
Edited by Gidorick on March 1, 2015 6:28PMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!2 -
Ysne58✭✭✭✭✭Everyone does have the right to his or her own opinion on this. I really wish they would provide an explanation for the change along with an apology.
The people who are making up the difference in timecards are getting more crowns total than the ones who already paid for it, although I still don't understand that math very well.
I certainly understand why many feel that 100 crowns per month is an insult. It isn't that part of this whole thing that I'm feeling so much outrage about. It's the misleading way ZOS handled this.3 -
charley222✭✭✭✭ZOS_MichelleA wrote: »We have removed several posts from this thread for trolling and baiting. We encourage everyone to be constructive and respectful, even when disagreeing with one another. As a good rule of thumb, if you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead.
Thank you.
do you think is respectful too dont answer us on this topic ??? thank you /bowthe wall of the covenant5 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »ZO may have used their money to finance development of new content (they definitely have been using it for that, based on the sheer size and scope of 1.6). But my money was only used to pay for my subscription.
You can continue to argue and dance on semantics until blue in the face that the subscription pays for nothing but access to the game but it will never make the arguement true. As is, there are literally thousands of articles from respected game developers and marketing analysists alike discussing the ways in which subscriptions to online games work, what they pay for, why they succeed in some cases, why they fail in others, etc.
Your ignoring that this is a known fact about online games does not make the rest of us idiots for pointing it out.
It is also merely one in a series of reasons why some people here have issues over the crown alloment for last year's subs. It is not the ONLY reason, as the thread has proven based on the variety of responses.
As is , what you call "free money" is not "free" at all. It is tethered to a system meant to inherently change the value of the money we gave to begin with. It also sends entirely the wrong message to a player base that has already proven cash shops are not something they ever wanted in the first place - something which you completely overlook.
I don't have to make much of an argument. You signed a contract stating exactly what I'm saying.
Now, how a subscription model works for a company on a meta-level and how that company uses their money to do things is entirely different. Your money, however, is used for one purpose and one purpose only: to pay for a subscription to the game. All that includes is access to the servers. That's it. You can make up all the fringe benefits you want, but you literally signed a document stating that all you get is access.
And if the playerbase doesn't want a cash shop, I'm sure they will vote with their wallets and leave. That simply isn't what this thread is about, because it's strongly indicated that people here want a cash shop. They just don't want to have to pay for the stuff in it.
It's actually quite obvious that what this thread is really about, is totally lost on you. There have been many reasons presented here for not liking this move of ZoS's and I am not the only person who has pointed this out to you.
Blindly defending a postion predicated on black and white thinking does not make you correct, and there is little merit in discussing it further.4 -
Brasseurfb16_ESO✭✭✭✭I think the bigest issue was mostly how the loyalty reward was presented. If they didn't over complicated things by giving a fraction of the reward depending on how much time we played and presented it more like a general advertising/promotion like : "Still playing with us? Takes those 1500 crowns to try out our brand new crown-store!"
instead we got : "We thank you so much for beeing such loyal costumers (realy)! Take those 500 crowns + those extra crown for each month you subscribed. Oh by the way, free months do not count..."
Yeah I can get behind the idea of words breaking trust between a company and its costumers and making people mad.
If I learned something at my job : You always have to be carefull which informations you are able and willing to share with people. If the information is close and personnal like Zenimax did with the loyalty reward, they give out an oppinion from the company perspective which can offend people depending on their personnal mood.
If you rely on a more neutral approach, by promoting new services or just by giving out samples of what your company can offer, you usualy have a lot less complains because the information remains transparent and it can only peek the costumers interest.Edited by Brasseurfb16_ESO on March 1, 2015 11:13PM1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The people who are making up the difference in timecards are getting more crowns total than the ones who already paid for it, although I still don't understand that math very well.
That's because there's no math to support it.
If you buy [X] timecards now, you will get the same monthly allotment of Crowns as someone who subscribes for the next [X] months to ESO Plus.Edited by nerevarine1138 on March 1, 2015 7:30PM----
Murray?0 -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sorry.. it's just bad form on ZOS part.
10 months of subs is equal to $150 and 1,000 crowns.
ONE month sub if made today is $15 and worth 1,500 crowns. ($135 less and 500 more crowns)
That's pouring salt into the wound if you ask me.
No.
10 months of subs is equal to 10 months of access to the servers under the subscription payment model.
1 month of ESO Plus membership is equal to 1 month of ESO Plus benefits under the new model plus free access to the servers.
You cannot compare month-to-month under radically different payment models.
15 per month is 15 per month what do you mean with different payment model??
I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
Under the current payment model, we pay for access to the servers. In a couple of weeks, we won't have to do that anymore. Different payment models.
Let me give you another example. Imaging that you bought an apartment in a building and you have a contract with the agency to whom belong the rest of the building that you will pay them each month a fee and they will use the money to maintain the building and they will make improvements in your apartment and renovate it. Lets say that they will use 30% of the money for maintaining the building and 70% for the renovation. After 9 months they told you that now if you want the renovation that they planned you have to pay for it.Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »...is insulting!
Once the game goes F2P, subscribers will receive 1500 Crowns a month.
We should receive the same 1500 crowns for each month we've subscribed. To give us less than that suggests that the time we've spent in ESO is worth LESS than future subscriptions.
Kind of reminds me of the whole 30 CP option they were going to give. They changed the CP distribution.... They need to change this.
EDIT: The consensus seems to be that 500 or so would be reasonable.
EDIT: This post now has over 150 "Agrees"! It's good to know so many others feel the same way about the 100 crowns!
I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but here I go...
Zenimax Online isn't entitled to give you anything in return for the months you played before. You know why? Because you payed for a subscription fee under a different policy and the chart you sign with Zenimax will not even be the same when Tamriel Unlimited goes live.
Basicaly ESO+ membership is going to be a whole new thing part of a new promotional offer and by giving them money previously you accepted their previous offer and conditions in which they have clearly stipulated, as a company, they were in no way obliged to compensate you for anything should that offer change.
Exemple : Lets say I buy a cofee machine for 150.00€. A month later, I see that same machine only at 120.00€ with an extra set of cups of cofee. Can I claim my 30.00€ back and get my set of cups of cofee for free? Nope, because it's part of another promotion package deal and it works exactly the same way for video games (including MMO subscribtions).
So be happy you even got something... because legaly, they could just have completely ignored the old playerbase and give it absolutely nothing in compensation.
We got only 2-3 veteran dungeons, one zone Craglorn with trials and DSA and thats it. For the rest we have to pay. If ZoS needs 5 USD per month for maintenance and the rest 10 they use for new content, then I gave them 90 USD for nine months and received almost nothing. I bought the game for 60 USD and received 10 times more content that I got for the 90 USD that I paid for content. Now we have to pay for the content that they developed while we were paying.
And if they stayed under the subscription model, how would this change?
You still wouldn't get access to the new content if you stopped paying for your subscription. You'd still have to pay to even get access to the core game.
The problem is that you (and most of the people in this thread) think that when a company spends their earned money on specific items, that you somehow become entitled to those items. If ZO had said, "We're using subscription fees to finance the company waterpark," that wouldn't mean that you were entitled to free admission to the waterpark.
Oh I see - sorry - I intend to still sub - so for me those who subbed before and those who still do - same payment model :-)
ETA: the rest though is whatevs - I was only asking what you meant by different payment model.Edited by Islyn on March 1, 2015 7:38PM0 -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Again, it doesn't matter if you perceive the situations to be different. The reality is that this doesn't actually change your ability to access future content.
And again, that's not what our rant is about.
If you are unable or unwilling to understand what the real deal-breaker here is, I am sorry.
I didn't realize that your issue wasn't that
I'm literally responding directly to your arguments, so what, exactly, is your grievance? That you perceive a situation where you're paying twice?we payed $150 for development of a content we have to pay TWICE.
You aren't paying twice for this content. You're paying exactly what you would have, or you're now being given the option of only paying a one-time fee for only the things you want.
The grievance as I understand is that we *were* told all along our subs were for content we have *literally everything in game* which we now see (and saw with the dog only steam users got) is patently untrue.
People were flat out lied to.
Given that FACT - play/pay or don't.
What you don't do though is 'fly the f bird' at the people who paid the bills long enough to keep the Titanic afloat.
That's just rude - and to be unable to see why people are upset is shortsighted.5 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭They're likely not going to budge on the amount of crowns we'll be receiving because the Crown Store won't have a whole helluva lot of options in it at launch.
So rather than frontloading you with Crowns with nothing to spend them on, they'll give us the 100 per month so we don't stockpile, drop our subs and just watch the DLCs roll in and we use our hoard of Crowns to scoop them up.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
#BETA_TESTER4LYF
DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
#SEEMSLEGIT1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »They're likely not going to budge on the amount of crowns we'll be receiving because the Crown Store won't have a whole helluva lot of options in it at launch.
So rather than frontloading you with Crowns with nothing to spend them on, they'll give us the 100 per month so we don't stockpile, drop our subs and just watch the DLCs roll in and we use our hoard of Crowns to scoop them up.
And this is the reason most of us realize that the 1500C/month would be too much for back subs. 500C/month would give us as much as was given to us on the PTS and I don't know about you, but I felt like that 5500 went FAST!Edited by Gidorick on March 1, 2015 8:11PMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭You really believe that most of the players that are currently subscribed to the game are here on the forums? What is 200 to the 770kish players that are subscribed? An absent answer to this is going to be taken against this argument as someone that is fine with whatever they decide.
770k peak last June in the first month of payed subscription. 200 compared to maybe 100k subs right now seems a bit better, doesn't it? But in the end, you are right that the "agrees" are not really worth mentioning besides the fact that this topic is important FOR THE COMMUNITY.
Some guys (or mostly one guy here) doesn't get the psychologial point of view - 100 Crowns per month is not a nice gesture, it's an insult. You know why? Because the amount of Crowns is totally unreasonable. That's the issue here. Such a "nice touch" is a hollow gesture when it's happening like it's happening here.Edited by Seraphyel on March 1, 2015 8:20PM3 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sorry.. it's just bad form on ZOS part.
10 months of subs is equal to $150 and 1,000 crowns.
ONE month sub if made today is $15 and worth 1,500 crowns. ($135 less and 500 more crowns)
That's pouring salt into the wound if you ask me.
No.
10 months of subs is equal to 10 months of access to the servers under the subscription payment model.
1 month of ESO Plus membership is equal to 1 month of ESO Plus benefits under the new model plus free access to the servers.
You cannot compare month-to-month under radically different payment models.
15 per month is 15 per month what do you mean with different payment model??
I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
Under the current payment model, we pay for access to the servers. In a couple of weeks, we won't have to do that anymore. Different payment models.
Let me give you another example. Imaging that you bought an apartment in a building and you have a contract with the agency to whom belong the rest of the building that you will pay them each month a fee and they will use the money to maintain the building and they will make improvements in your apartment and renovate it. Lets say that they will use 30% of the money for maintaining the building and 70% for the renovation. After 9 months they told you that now if you want the renovation that they planned you have to pay for it.Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »...is insulting!
Once the game goes F2P, subscribers will receive 1500 Crowns a month.
We should receive the same 1500 crowns for each month we've subscribed. To give us less than that suggests that the time we've spent in ESO is worth LESS than future subscriptions.
Kind of reminds me of the whole 30 CP option they were going to give. They changed the CP distribution.... They need to change this.
EDIT: The consensus seems to be that 500 or so would be reasonable.
EDIT: This post now has over 150 "Agrees"! It's good to know so many others feel the same way about the 100 crowns!
I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but here I go...
Zenimax Online isn't entitled to give you anything in return for the months you played before. You know why? Because you payed for a subscription fee under a different policy and the chart you sign with Zenimax will not even be the same when Tamriel Unlimited goes live.
Basicaly ESO+ membership is going to be a whole new thing part of a new promotional offer and by giving them money previously you accepted their previous offer and conditions in which they have clearly stipulated, as a company, they were in no way obliged to compensate you for anything should that offer change.
Exemple : Lets say I buy a cofee machine for 150.00€. A month later, I see that same machine only at 120.00€ with an extra set of cups of cofee. Can I claim my 30.00€ back and get my set of cups of cofee for free? Nope, because it's part of another promotion package deal and it works exactly the same way for video games (including MMO subscribtions).
So be happy you even got something... because legaly, they could just have completely ignored the old playerbase and give it absolutely nothing in compensation.
We got only 2-3 veteran dungeons, one zone Craglorn with trials and DSA and thats it. For the rest we have to pay. If ZoS needs 5 USD per month for maintenance and the rest 10 they use for new content, then I gave them 90 USD for nine months and received almost nothing. I bought the game for 60 USD and received 10 times more content that I got for the 90 USD that I paid for content. Now we have to pay for the content that they developed while we were paying.
And if they stayed under the subscription model, how would this change?
You still wouldn't get access to the new content if you stopped paying for your subscription. You'd still have to pay to even get access to the core game.
The problem is that you (and most of the people in this thread) think that when a company spends their earned money on specific items, that you somehow become entitled to those items. If ZO had said, "We're using subscription fees to finance the company waterpark," that wouldn't mean that you were entitled to free admission to the waterpark.
Oh I see - sorry - I intend to still sub - so for me those who subbed before and those who still do - same payment model :-)
ETA: the rest though is whatevs - I was only asking what you meant by different payment model.
It's still not the same payment model.
You're paying the same monthly fee, but you now receive a monthly allowance of Crowns (in addition to still having access to all the DLC). And more importantly, the people who don't pay a monthly fee will still have access to the same core game. So while it will feel the same for you, the payment model is entirely different.----
Murray?1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sorry.. it's just bad form on ZOS part.
10 months of subs is equal to $150 and 1,000 crowns.
ONE month sub if made today is $15 and worth 1,500 crowns. ($135 less and 500 more crowns)
That's pouring salt into the wound if you ask me.
No.
10 months of subs is equal to 10 months of access to the servers under the subscription payment model.
1 month of ESO Plus membership is equal to 1 month of ESO Plus benefits under the new model plus free access to the servers.
You cannot compare month-to-month under radically different payment models.
15 per month is 15 per month what do you mean with different payment model??
I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
Under the current payment model, we pay for access to the servers. In a couple of weeks, we won't have to do that anymore. Different payment models.
Let me give you another example. Imaging that you bought an apartment in a building and you have a contract with the agency to whom belong the rest of the building that you will pay them each month a fee and they will use the money to maintain the building and they will make improvements in your apartment and renovate it. Lets say that they will use 30% of the money for maintaining the building and 70% for the renovation. After 9 months they told you that now if you want the renovation that they planned you have to pay for it.Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »...is insulting!
Once the game goes F2P, subscribers will receive 1500 Crowns a month.
We should receive the same 1500 crowns for each month we've subscribed. To give us less than that suggests that the time we've spent in ESO is worth LESS than future subscriptions.
Kind of reminds me of the whole 30 CP option they were going to give. They changed the CP distribution.... They need to change this.
EDIT: The consensus seems to be that 500 or so would be reasonable.
EDIT: This post now has over 150 "Agrees"! It's good to know so many others feel the same way about the 100 crowns!
I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but here I go...
Zenimax Online isn't entitled to give you anything in return for the months you played before. You know why? Because you payed for a subscription fee under a different policy and the chart you sign with Zenimax will not even be the same when Tamriel Unlimited goes live.
Basicaly ESO+ membership is going to be a whole new thing part of a new promotional offer and by giving them money previously you accepted their previous offer and conditions in which they have clearly stipulated, as a company, they were in no way obliged to compensate you for anything should that offer change.
Exemple : Lets say I buy a cofee machine for 150.00€. A month later, I see that same machine only at 120.00€ with an extra set of cups of cofee. Can I claim my 30.00€ back and get my set of cups of cofee for free? Nope, because it's part of another promotion package deal and it works exactly the same way for video games (including MMO subscribtions).
So be happy you even got something... because legaly, they could just have completely ignored the old playerbase and give it absolutely nothing in compensation.
We got only 2-3 veteran dungeons, one zone Craglorn with trials and DSA and thats it. For the rest we have to pay. If ZoS needs 5 USD per month for maintenance and the rest 10 they use for new content, then I gave them 90 USD for nine months and received almost nothing. I bought the game for 60 USD and received 10 times more content that I got for the 90 USD that I paid for content. Now we have to pay for the content that they developed while we were paying.
And if they stayed under the subscription model, how would this change?
You still wouldn't get access to the new content if you stopped paying for your subscription. You'd still have to pay to even get access to the core game.
The problem is that you (and most of the people in this thread) think that when a company spends their earned money on specific items, that you somehow become entitled to those items. If ZO had said, "We're using subscription fees to finance the company waterpark," that wouldn't mean that you were entitled to free admission to the waterpark.
Oh I see - sorry - I intend to still sub - so for me those who subbed before and those who still do - same payment model :-)
ETA: the rest though is whatevs - I was only asking what you meant by different payment model.
It's still not the same payment model.
You're paying the same monthly fee, but you now receive a monthly allowance of Crowns (in addition to still having access to all the DLC). And more importantly, the people who don't pay a monthly fee will still have access to the same core game. So while it will feel the same for you, the payment model is entirely different.
Yes, in addition to all the DLC that was supposed to be released for subscribers, but which was actually held off to be nickel & dimed later. Content, which could be in game right now.
What do you propose we do, thank them for showing us the middle finger & making our time less valuable than the B2P crowd's?
And in the end, we don't even get one DLC's worth of Crowns in return.
You really take apologism to a whole new level.Edited by DDuke on March 1, 2015 9:19PM3 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭100 crowns for each month we sat through horrible beta testing 4 fps in Cyrodiil and thousands of AP and gold wasted on things that bugged out or are now obsolete is an insult. 500 crowns is an insult.
3000 crowns per month of beta testing is a start.2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sorry.. it's just bad form on ZOS part.
10 months of subs is equal to $150 and 1,000 crowns.
ONE month sub if made today is $15 and worth 1,500 crowns. ($135 less and 500 more crowns)
That's pouring salt into the wound if you ask me.
No.
10 months of subs is equal to 10 months of access to the servers under the subscription payment model.
1 month of ESO Plus membership is equal to 1 month of ESO Plus benefits under the new model plus free access to the servers.
You cannot compare month-to-month under radically different payment models.
15 per month is 15 per month what do you mean with different payment model??
I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
Under the current payment model, we pay for access to the servers. In a couple of weeks, we won't have to do that anymore. Different payment models.
Let me give you another example. Imaging that you bought an apartment in a building and you have a contract with the agency to whom belong the rest of the building that you will pay them each month a fee and they will use the money to maintain the building and they will make improvements in your apartment and renovate it. Lets say that they will use 30% of the money for maintaining the building and 70% for the renovation. After 9 months they told you that now if you want the renovation that they planned you have to pay for it.Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »...is insulting!
Once the game goes F2P, subscribers will receive 1500 Crowns a month.
We should receive the same 1500 crowns for each month we've subscribed. To give us less than that suggests that the time we've spent in ESO is worth LESS than future subscriptions.
Kind of reminds me of the whole 30 CP option they were going to give. They changed the CP distribution.... They need to change this.
EDIT: The consensus seems to be that 500 or so would be reasonable.
EDIT: This post now has over 150 "Agrees"! It's good to know so many others feel the same way about the 100 crowns!
I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but here I go...
Zenimax Online isn't entitled to give you anything in return for the months you played before. You know why? Because you payed for a subscription fee under a different policy and the chart you sign with Zenimax will not even be the same when Tamriel Unlimited goes live.
Basicaly ESO+ membership is going to be a whole new thing part of a new promotional offer and by giving them money previously you accepted their previous offer and conditions in which they have clearly stipulated, as a company, they were in no way obliged to compensate you for anything should that offer change.
Exemple : Lets say I buy a cofee machine for 150.00€. A month later, I see that same machine only at 120.00€ with an extra set of cups of cofee. Can I claim my 30.00€ back and get my set of cups of cofee for free? Nope, because it's part of another promotion package deal and it works exactly the same way for video games (including MMO subscribtions).
So be happy you even got something... because legaly, they could just have completely ignored the old playerbase and give it absolutely nothing in compensation.
We got only 2-3 veteran dungeons, one zone Craglorn with trials and DSA and thats it. For the rest we have to pay. If ZoS needs 5 USD per month for maintenance and the rest 10 they use for new content, then I gave them 90 USD for nine months and received almost nothing. I bought the game for 60 USD and received 10 times more content that I got for the 90 USD that I paid for content. Now we have to pay for the content that they developed while we were paying.
And if they stayed under the subscription model, how would this change?
You still wouldn't get access to the new content if you stopped paying for your subscription. You'd still have to pay to even get access to the core game.
The problem is that you (and most of the people in this thread) think that when a company spends their earned money on specific items, that you somehow become entitled to those items. If ZO had said, "We're using subscription fees to finance the company waterpark," that wouldn't mean that you were entitled to free admission to the waterpark.
Oh I see - sorry - I intend to still sub - so for me those who subbed before and those who still do - same payment model :-)
ETA: the rest though is whatevs - I was only asking what you meant by different payment model.
It's still not the same payment model.
You're paying the same monthly fee, but you now receive a monthly allowance of Crowns (in addition to still having access to all the DLC). And more importantly, the people who don't pay a monthly fee will still have access to the same core game. So while it will feel the same for you, the payment model is entirely different.
Yes, in addition to all the DLC that was supposed to be released for subscribers, but which was actually held off to be nickel & dimed later. Content, which could be in game right now.
What do you propose we do, thank them for showing us the middle finger & making our time less valuable than the B2P crowd's?
And in the end, we don't even get one DLC's worth of Crowns in return.
You really take apologism to a whole new level.
Again, please actually think about how DLC works compared to the current payment model.
Current payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included.
TU payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included, or, alternatively, buy DLC separately and forego the monthly fee.
Either way, you're paying the exact same amount if you choose to stay subscribed. If you had stopped your subscription under the current model, you wouldn't have been able to access that DLC in the future anyway.
P.S. You have no idea what updates could be "in game right now" (hint: 1.6 is the only one), but if you have any evidence to suggest otherwise, feel free to present it.----
Murray?1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sorry.. it's just bad form on ZOS part.
10 months of subs is equal to $150 and 1,000 crowns.
ONE month sub if made today is $15 and worth 1,500 crowns. ($135 less and 500 more crowns)
That's pouring salt into the wound if you ask me.
No.
10 months of subs is equal to 10 months of access to the servers under the subscription payment model.
1 month of ESO Plus membership is equal to 1 month of ESO Plus benefits under the new model plus free access to the servers.
You cannot compare month-to-month under radically different payment models.
15 per month is 15 per month what do you mean with different payment model??
I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
Under the current payment model, we pay for access to the servers. In a couple of weeks, we won't have to do that anymore. Different payment models.
Let me give you another example. Imaging that you bought an apartment in a building and you have a contract with the agency to whom belong the rest of the building that you will pay them each month a fee and they will use the money to maintain the building and they will make improvements in your apartment and renovate it. Lets say that they will use 30% of the money for maintaining the building and 70% for the renovation. After 9 months they told you that now if you want the renovation that they planned you have to pay for it.Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »...is insulting!
Once the game goes F2P, subscribers will receive 1500 Crowns a month.
We should receive the same 1500 crowns for each month we've subscribed. To give us less than that suggests that the time we've spent in ESO is worth LESS than future subscriptions.
Kind of reminds me of the whole 30 CP option they were going to give. They changed the CP distribution.... They need to change this.
EDIT: The consensus seems to be that 500 or so would be reasonable.
EDIT: This post now has over 150 "Agrees"! It's good to know so many others feel the same way about the 100 crowns!
I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but here I go...
Zenimax Online isn't entitled to give you anything in return for the months you played before. You know why? Because you payed for a subscription fee under a different policy and the chart you sign with Zenimax will not even be the same when Tamriel Unlimited goes live.
Basicaly ESO+ membership is going to be a whole new thing part of a new promotional offer and by giving them money previously you accepted their previous offer and conditions in which they have clearly stipulated, as a company, they were in no way obliged to compensate you for anything should that offer change.
Exemple : Lets say I buy a cofee machine for 150.00€. A month later, I see that same machine only at 120.00€ with an extra set of cups of cofee. Can I claim my 30.00€ back and get my set of cups of cofee for free? Nope, because it's part of another promotion package deal and it works exactly the same way for video games (including MMO subscribtions).
So be happy you even got something... because legaly, they could just have completely ignored the old playerbase and give it absolutely nothing in compensation.
We got only 2-3 veteran dungeons, one zone Craglorn with trials and DSA and thats it. For the rest we have to pay. If ZoS needs 5 USD per month for maintenance and the rest 10 they use for new content, then I gave them 90 USD for nine months and received almost nothing. I bought the game for 60 USD and received 10 times more content that I got for the 90 USD that I paid for content. Now we have to pay for the content that they developed while we were paying.
And if they stayed under the subscription model, how would this change?
You still wouldn't get access to the new content if you stopped paying for your subscription. You'd still have to pay to even get access to the core game.
The problem is that you (and most of the people in this thread) think that when a company spends their earned money on specific items, that you somehow become entitled to those items. If ZO had said, "We're using subscription fees to finance the company waterpark," that wouldn't mean that you were entitled to free admission to the waterpark.
Oh I see - sorry - I intend to still sub - so for me those who subbed before and those who still do - same payment model :-)
ETA: the rest though is whatevs - I was only asking what you meant by different payment model.
It's still not the same payment model.
You're paying the same monthly fee, but you now receive a monthly allowance of Crowns (in addition to still having access to all the DLC). And more importantly, the people who don't pay a monthly fee will still have access to the same core game. So while it will feel the same for you, the payment model is entirely different.
Yes, in addition to all the DLC that was supposed to be released for subscribers, but which was actually held off to be nickel & dimed later. Content, which could be in game right now.
What do you propose we do, thank them for showing us the middle finger & making our time less valuable than the B2P crowd's?
And in the end, we don't even get one DLC's worth of Crowns in return.
You really take apologism to a whole new level.
Again, please actually think about how DLC works compared to the current payment model.
Current payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included.
TU payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included, or, alternatively, buy DLC separately and forego the monthly fee
Either way, you're paying the exact same amount if you choose to stay subscribed. If you had stopped your subscription under the current model, you wouldn't have been able to access that DLC in the future anyway.
P.S. You have no idea what updates could be "in game right now" (hint: 1.6 is the only one), but if you have any evidence to suggest otherwise, feel free to present it.
I actually agree with both of you...
Yes, a currently subscribed player that continues to subscribe will have a almost the exact game experience. Stay subscribed and the biggest change for you is that you'll be buying a mount or pet or costume once a month.
This doesn't, however, excuse the fact that ZOS appears to have slowed ESO development to make room for ESO:TU. It seems as if PC players have been taken for a ride in order to fund and prepare Tamriel Unlimited.Edited by Gidorick on March 1, 2015 9:35PMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!4 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭charley222 wrote: »ZOS_MichelleA wrote: »We have removed several posts from this thread for trolling and baiting. We encourage everyone to be constructive and respectful, even when disagreeing with one another. As a good rule of thumb, if you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead.
Thank you.
do you think is respectful too dont answer us on this topic ??? thank you /bow
The answer is pretty clear, it's "we don't give a <hoot> about people who helped us build and beta test the game while paying us money"5 -
Froggmann5✭✭✭Hey! A response... I kind of figured we would eventually get THIS sort of response.
OH... and we're over 200 "Agrees" now. yay! I guess...
I bet you would have over 1000 disagrees if there was an option for it... The agree option means absolutely nothing considering the amount of people that browse this forum daily.3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Froggmann5 wrote: »Hey! A response... I kind of figured we would eventually get THIS sort of response.
OH... and we're over 200 "Agrees" now. yay! I guess...
I bet you would have over 1000 disagrees if there was an option for it... The agree option means absolutely nothing considering the amount of people that browse this forum daily.
And if there was a LOL button still, I bet you'd have quite a few of those as well right now
5 -
Froggmann5 wrote: »Hey! A response... I kind of figured we would eventually get THIS sort of response.
OH... and we're over 200 "Agrees" now. yay! I guess...
I bet you would have over 1000 disagrees if there was an option for it... The agree option means absolutely nothing considering the amount of people that browse this forum daily.
And if there was a LOL button still, I bet you'd have quite a few of those as well right now
Also, don't forget 220 is just the people reading this and who thought, "oh, click the agree thingie." I read this thread a few time before actually clicking it.0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Froggmann5 wrote: »Hey! A response... I kind of figured we would eventually get THIS sort of response.
OH... and we're over 200 "Agrees" now. yay! I guess...
I bet you would have over 1000 disagrees if there was an option for it... The agree option means absolutely nothing considering the amount of people that browse this forum daily.
I did have some disagrees but it was just a small handful... and people don't agree just because there's no other option they click agree because.... erm... They agree. Crazy huh?What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't make me post a lesson on statistical analysis, public internet forums, and the meaninglessness of polling on such forums.
Because I'm bored, and I'll do it!
Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sorry.. it's just bad form on ZOS part.
10 months of subs is equal to $150 and 1,000 crowns.
ONE month sub if made today is $15 and worth 1,500 crowns. ($135 less and 500 more crowns)
That's pouring salt into the wound if you ask me.
No.
10 months of subs is equal to 10 months of access to the servers under the subscription payment model.
1 month of ESO Plus membership is equal to 1 month of ESO Plus benefits under the new model plus free access to the servers.
You cannot compare month-to-month under radically different payment models.
15 per month is 15 per month what do you mean with different payment model??
I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
Under the current payment model, we pay for access to the servers. In a couple of weeks, we won't have to do that anymore. Different payment models.
Let me give you another example. Imaging that you bought an apartment in a building and you have a contract with the agency to whom belong the rest of the building that you will pay them each month a fee and they will use the money to maintain the building and they will make improvements in your apartment and renovate it. Lets say that they will use 30% of the money for maintaining the building and 70% for the renovation. After 9 months they told you that now if you want the renovation that they planned you have to pay for it.Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »...is insulting!
Once the game goes F2P, subscribers will receive 1500 Crowns a month.
We should receive the same 1500 crowns for each month we've subscribed. To give us less than that suggests that the time we've spent in ESO is worth LESS than future subscriptions.
Kind of reminds me of the whole 30 CP option they were going to give. They changed the CP distribution.... They need to change this.
EDIT: The consensus seems to be that 500 or so would be reasonable.
EDIT: This post now has over 150 "Agrees"! It's good to know so many others feel the same way about the 100 crowns!
I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but here I go...
Zenimax Online isn't entitled to give you anything in return for the months you played before. You know why? Because you payed for a subscription fee under a different policy and the chart you sign with Zenimax will not even be the same when Tamriel Unlimited goes live.
Basicaly ESO+ membership is going to be a whole new thing part of a new promotional offer and by giving them money previously you accepted their previous offer and conditions in which they have clearly stipulated, as a company, they were in no way obliged to compensate you for anything should that offer change.
Exemple : Lets say I buy a cofee machine for 150.00€. A month later, I see that same machine only at 120.00€ with an extra set of cups of cofee. Can I claim my 30.00€ back and get my set of cups of cofee for free? Nope, because it's part of another promotion package deal and it works exactly the same way for video games (including MMO subscribtions).
So be happy you even got something... because legaly, they could just have completely ignored the old playerbase and give it absolutely nothing in compensation.
We got only 2-3 veteran dungeons, one zone Craglorn with trials and DSA and thats it. For the rest we have to pay. If ZoS needs 5 USD per month for maintenance and the rest 10 they use for new content, then I gave them 90 USD for nine months and received almost nothing. I bought the game for 60 USD and received 10 times more content that I got for the 90 USD that I paid for content. Now we have to pay for the content that they developed while we were paying.
And if they stayed under the subscription model, how would this change?
You still wouldn't get access to the new content if you stopped paying for your subscription. You'd still have to pay to even get access to the core game.
The problem is that you (and most of the people in this thread) think that when a company spends their earned money on specific items, that you somehow become entitled to those items. If ZO had said, "We're using subscription fees to finance the company waterpark," that wouldn't mean that you were entitled to free admission to the waterpark.
Oh I see - sorry - I intend to still sub - so for me those who subbed before and those who still do - same payment model :-)
ETA: the rest though is whatevs - I was only asking what you meant by different payment model.
It's still not the same payment model.
You're paying the same monthly fee, but you now receive a monthly allowance of Crowns (in addition to still having access to all the DLC). And more importantly, the people who don't pay a monthly fee will still have access to the same core game. So while it will feel the same for you, the payment model is entirely different.
Yes, in addition to all the DLC that was supposed to be released for subscribers, but which was actually held off to be nickel & dimed later. Content, which could be in game right now.
What do you propose we do, thank them for showing us the middle finger & making our time less valuable than the B2P crowd's?
And in the end, we don't even get one DLC's worth of Crowns in return.
You really take apologism to a whole new level.
Again, please actually think about how DLC works compared to the current payment model.
Current payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included.
TU payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included, or, alternatively, buy DLC separately and forego the monthly fee.
Either way, you're paying the exact same amount if you choose to stay subscribed. If you had stopped your subscription under the current model, you wouldn't have been able to access that DLC in the future anyway.
P.S. You have no idea what updates could be "in game right now" (hint: 1.6 is the only one), but if you have any evidence to suggest otherwise, feel free to present it.
Except the highlighted, which just isn't true & I even posted evidence about it.
I can't tell what happened to my post (it seems to have mysteriously vanished), but if you want to take a look at that evidence, I suggest you to begin by reading what @Seraphyel wrote on the previous page and then taking a look at statements between QuakeCon & last month's Q&A.
Have a good day.---If quoting what people working at Zenimax have said & expressing fair criticism for the business decisions of the company is somehow against Community Rules, I would very much like to be informed atleast (leave me an explanation why a post was removed for instance).
(No, not talking to you @nerevarine1138)Edited by DDuke on March 1, 2015 11:21PM0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sorry.. it's just bad form on ZOS part.
10 months of subs is equal to $150 and 1,000 crowns.
ONE month sub if made today is $15 and worth 1,500 crowns. ($135 less and 500 more crowns)
That's pouring salt into the wound if you ask me.
No.
10 months of subs is equal to 10 months of access to the servers under the subscription payment model.
1 month of ESO Plus membership is equal to 1 month of ESO Plus benefits under the new model plus free access to the servers.
You cannot compare month-to-month under radically different payment models.
15 per month is 15 per month what do you mean with different payment model??
I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
Under the current payment model, we pay for access to the servers. In a couple of weeks, we won't have to do that anymore. Different payment models.
Let me give you another example. Imaging that you bought an apartment in a building and you have a contract with the agency to whom belong the rest of the building that you will pay them each month a fee and they will use the money to maintain the building and they will make improvements in your apartment and renovate it. Lets say that they will use 30% of the money for maintaining the building and 70% for the renovation. After 9 months they told you that now if you want the renovation that they planned you have to pay for it.Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »...is insulting!
Once the game goes F2P, subscribers will receive 1500 Crowns a month.
We should receive the same 1500 crowns for each month we've subscribed. To give us less than that suggests that the time we've spent in ESO is worth LESS than future subscriptions.
Kind of reminds me of the whole 30 CP option they were going to give. They changed the CP distribution.... They need to change this.
EDIT: The consensus seems to be that 500 or so would be reasonable.
EDIT: This post now has over 150 "Agrees"! It's good to know so many others feel the same way about the 100 crowns!
I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but here I go...
Zenimax Online isn't entitled to give you anything in return for the months you played before. You know why? Because you payed for a subscription fee under a different policy and the chart you sign with Zenimax will not even be the same when Tamriel Unlimited goes live.
Basicaly ESO+ membership is going to be a whole new thing part of a new promotional offer and by giving them money previously you accepted their previous offer and conditions in which they have clearly stipulated, as a company, they were in no way obliged to compensate you for anything should that offer change.
Exemple : Lets say I buy a cofee machine for 150.00€. A month later, I see that same machine only at 120.00€ with an extra set of cups of cofee. Can I claim my 30.00€ back and get my set of cups of cofee for free? Nope, because it's part of another promotion package deal and it works exactly the same way for video games (including MMO subscribtions).
So be happy you even got something... because legaly, they could just have completely ignored the old playerbase and give it absolutely nothing in compensation.
We got only 2-3 veteran dungeons, one zone Craglorn with trials and DSA and thats it. For the rest we have to pay. If ZoS needs 5 USD per month for maintenance and the rest 10 they use for new content, then I gave them 90 USD for nine months and received almost nothing. I bought the game for 60 USD and received 10 times more content that I got for the 90 USD that I paid for content. Now we have to pay for the content that they developed while we were paying.
And if they stayed under the subscription model, how would this change?
You still wouldn't get access to the new content if you stopped paying for your subscription. You'd still have to pay to even get access to the core game.
The problem is that you (and most of the people in this thread) think that when a company spends their earned money on specific items, that you somehow become entitled to those items. If ZO had said, "We're using subscription fees to finance the company waterpark," that wouldn't mean that you were entitled to free admission to the waterpark.
Oh I see - sorry - I intend to still sub - so for me those who subbed before and those who still do - same payment model :-)
ETA: the rest though is whatevs - I was only asking what you meant by different payment model.
It's still not the same payment model.
You're paying the same monthly fee, but you now receive a monthly allowance of Crowns (in addition to still having access to all the DLC). And more importantly, the people who don't pay a monthly fee will still have access to the same core game. So while it will feel the same for you, the payment model is entirely different.
Yes, in addition to all the DLC that was supposed to be released for subscribers, but which was actually held off to be nickel & dimed later. Content, which could be in game right now.
What do you propose we do, thank them for showing us the middle finger & making our time less valuable than the B2P crowd's?
And in the end, we don't even get one DLC's worth of Crowns in return.
You really take apologism to a whole new level.
Again, please actually think about how DLC works compared to the current payment model.
Current payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included.
TU payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included, or, alternatively, buy DLC separately and forego the monthly fee.
Either way, you're paying the exact same amount if you choose to stay subscribed. If you had stopped your subscription under the current model, you wouldn't have been able to access that DLC in the future anyway.
P.S. You have no idea what updates could be "in game right now" (hint: 1.6 is the only one), but if you have any evidence to suggest otherwise, feel free to present it.
Except the highlighted, which just isn't true & I even posted evidence about it.
I can't tell what happened to my post (it seems to have mysteriously vanished), but if you want to take a look at that evidence, I suggest you to begin by reading what @Seraphyel wrote on the previous page and then taking a look at statements between QuakeCon & last month's Q&A.
Have a good day.---P.S. If quoting what people working at Zenimax have said & expressing fair criticism for the business decisions of the company is somehow against Community Rules, I would very much like to be informed atleast (leave me an explanation why a post was removed for instance).
So when ZO directly says that ESO Plus membership grants you, "Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership," they're... what? Speaking in code?----
Murray?0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So now the detractors are focusing on belittling the amount of "agrees" this post has received in an attempt to make this thread about the validity of using "agree" button as a measure of how the community feels about a topic.
Well, unless you can speak to each of the 200+ people that have pressed the agree button I'd prefer to stay away from conjecture about what they "meant" when they pressed agree. Let's, instead, talk about our conjecture about what ZOS "means" when they say they're "thanking" us with the 100C gesture.
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!2 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sorry.. it's just bad form on ZOS part.
10 months of subs is equal to $150 and 1,000 crowns.
ONE month sub if made today is $15 and worth 1,500 crowns. ($135 less and 500 more crowns)
That's pouring salt into the wound if you ask me.
No.
10 months of subs is equal to 10 months of access to the servers under the subscription payment model.
1 month of ESO Plus membership is equal to 1 month of ESO Plus benefits under the new model plus free access to the servers.
You cannot compare month-to-month under radically different payment models.
15 per month is 15 per month what do you mean with different payment model??
I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
Under the current payment model, we pay for access to the servers. In a couple of weeks, we won't have to do that anymore. Different payment models.
Let me give you another example. Imaging that you bought an apartment in a building and you have a contract with the agency to whom belong the rest of the building that you will pay them each month a fee and they will use the money to maintain the building and they will make improvements in your apartment and renovate it. Lets say that they will use 30% of the money for maintaining the building and 70% for the renovation. After 9 months they told you that now if you want the renovation that they planned you have to pay for it.Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »...is insulting!
Once the game goes F2P, subscribers will receive 1500 Crowns a month.
We should receive the same 1500 crowns for each month we've subscribed. To give us less than that suggests that the time we've spent in ESO is worth LESS than future subscriptions.
Kind of reminds me of the whole 30 CP option they were going to give. They changed the CP distribution.... They need to change this.
EDIT: The consensus seems to be that 500 or so would be reasonable.
EDIT: This post now has over 150 "Agrees"! It's good to know so many others feel the same way about the 100 crowns!
I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but here I go...
Zenimax Online isn't entitled to give you anything in return for the months you played before. You know why? Because you payed for a subscription fee under a different policy and the chart you sign with Zenimax will not even be the same when Tamriel Unlimited goes live.
Basicaly ESO+ membership is going to be a whole new thing part of a new promotional offer and by giving them money previously you accepted their previous offer and conditions in which they have clearly stipulated, as a company, they were in no way obliged to compensate you for anything should that offer change.
Exemple : Lets say I buy a cofee machine for 150.00€. A month later, I see that same machine only at 120.00€ with an extra set of cups of cofee. Can I claim my 30.00€ back and get my set of cups of cofee for free? Nope, because it's part of another promotion package deal and it works exactly the same way for video games (including MMO subscribtions).
So be happy you even got something... because legaly, they could just have completely ignored the old playerbase and give it absolutely nothing in compensation.
We got only 2-3 veteran dungeons, one zone Craglorn with trials and DSA and thats it. For the rest we have to pay. If ZoS needs 5 USD per month for maintenance and the rest 10 they use for new content, then I gave them 90 USD for nine months and received almost nothing. I bought the game for 60 USD and received 10 times more content that I got for the 90 USD that I paid for content. Now we have to pay for the content that they developed while we were paying.
And if they stayed under the subscription model, how would this change?
You still wouldn't get access to the new content if you stopped paying for your subscription. You'd still have to pay to even get access to the core game.
The problem is that you (and most of the people in this thread) think that when a company spends their earned money on specific items, that you somehow become entitled to those items. If ZO had said, "We're using subscription fees to finance the company waterpark," that wouldn't mean that you were entitled to free admission to the waterpark.
Oh I see - sorry - I intend to still sub - so for me those who subbed before and those who still do - same payment model :-)
ETA: the rest though is whatevs - I was only asking what you meant by different payment model.
It's still not the same payment model.
You're paying the same monthly fee, but you now receive a monthly allowance of Crowns (in addition to still having access to all the DLC). And more importantly, the people who don't pay a monthly fee will still have access to the same core game. So while it will feel the same for you, the payment model is entirely different.
Yes, in addition to all the DLC that was supposed to be released for subscribers, but which was actually held off to be nickel & dimed later. Content, which could be in game right now.
What do you propose we do, thank them for showing us the middle finger & making our time less valuable than the B2P crowd's?
And in the end, we don't even get one DLC's worth of Crowns in return.
You really take apologism to a whole new level.
Again, please actually think about how DLC works compared to the current payment model.
Current payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included.
TU payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included, or, alternatively, buy DLC separately and forego the monthly fee.
Either way, you're paying the exact same amount if you choose to stay subscribed. If you had stopped your subscription under the current model, you wouldn't have been able to access that DLC in the future anyway.
P.S. You have no idea what updates could be "in game right now" (hint: 1.6 is the only one), but if you have any evidence to suggest otherwise, feel free to present it.
Except the highlighted, which just isn't true & I even posted evidence about it.
I can't tell what happened to my post (it seems to have mysteriously vanished), but if you want to take a look at that evidence, I suggest you to begin by reading what @Seraphyel wrote on the previous page and then taking a look at statements between QuakeCon & last month's Q&A.
Have a good day.---P.S. If quoting what people working at Zenimax have said & expressing fair criticism for the business decisions of the company is somehow against Community Rules, I would very much like to be informed atleast (leave me an explanation why a post was removed for instance).
So when ZO directly says that ESO Plus membership grants you, "Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership," they're... what? Speaking in code?
Well, a subscription won't give us access to ALL created content. You'd still need to pay more than a subscription if you want all Crown store items.What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sorry.. it's just bad form on ZOS part.
10 months of subs is equal to $150 and 1,000 crowns.
ONE month sub if made today is $15 and worth 1,500 crowns. ($135 less and 500 more crowns)
That's pouring salt into the wound if you ask me.
No.
10 months of subs is equal to 10 months of access to the servers under the subscription payment model.
1 month of ESO Plus membership is equal to 1 month of ESO Plus benefits under the new model plus free access to the servers.
You cannot compare month-to-month under radically different payment models.
15 per month is 15 per month what do you mean with different payment model??
I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
Under the current payment model, we pay for access to the servers. In a couple of weeks, we won't have to do that anymore. Different payment models.
Let me give you another example. Imaging that you bought an apartment in a building and you have a contract with the agency to whom belong the rest of the building that you will pay them each month a fee and they will use the money to maintain the building and they will make improvements in your apartment and renovate it. Lets say that they will use 30% of the money for maintaining the building and 70% for the renovation. After 9 months they told you that now if you want the renovation that they planned you have to pay for it.Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »...is insulting!
Once the game goes F2P, subscribers will receive 1500 Crowns a month.
We should receive the same 1500 crowns for each month we've subscribed. To give us less than that suggests that the time we've spent in ESO is worth LESS than future subscriptions.
Kind of reminds me of the whole 30 CP option they were going to give. They changed the CP distribution.... They need to change this.
EDIT: The consensus seems to be that 500 or so would be reasonable.
EDIT: This post now has over 150 "Agrees"! It's good to know so many others feel the same way about the 100 crowns!
I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but here I go...
Zenimax Online isn't entitled to give you anything in return for the months you played before. You know why? Because you payed for a subscription fee under a different policy and the chart you sign with Zenimax will not even be the same when Tamriel Unlimited goes live.
Basicaly ESO+ membership is going to be a whole new thing part of a new promotional offer and by giving them money previously you accepted their previous offer and conditions in which they have clearly stipulated, as a company, they were in no way obliged to compensate you for anything should that offer change.
Exemple : Lets say I buy a cofee machine for 150.00€. A month later, I see that same machine only at 120.00€ with an extra set of cups of cofee. Can I claim my 30.00€ back and get my set of cups of cofee for free? Nope, because it's part of another promotion package deal and it works exactly the same way for video games (including MMO subscribtions).
So be happy you even got something... because legaly, they could just have completely ignored the old playerbase and give it absolutely nothing in compensation.
We got only 2-3 veteran dungeons, one zone Craglorn with trials and DSA and thats it. For the rest we have to pay. If ZoS needs 5 USD per month for maintenance and the rest 10 they use for new content, then I gave them 90 USD for nine months and received almost nothing. I bought the game for 60 USD and received 10 times more content that I got for the 90 USD that I paid for content. Now we have to pay for the content that they developed while we were paying.
And if they stayed under the subscription model, how would this change?
You still wouldn't get access to the new content if you stopped paying for your subscription. You'd still have to pay to even get access to the core game.
The problem is that you (and most of the people in this thread) think that when a company spends their earned money on specific items, that you somehow become entitled to those items. If ZO had said, "We're using subscription fees to finance the company waterpark," that wouldn't mean that you were entitled to free admission to the waterpark.
Oh I see - sorry - I intend to still sub - so for me those who subbed before and those who still do - same payment model :-)
ETA: the rest though is whatevs - I was only asking what you meant by different payment model.
It's still not the same payment model.
You're paying the same monthly fee, but you now receive a monthly allowance of Crowns (in addition to still having access to all the DLC). And more importantly, the people who don't pay a monthly fee will still have access to the same core game. So while it will feel the same for you, the payment model is entirely different.
Yes, in addition to all the DLC that was supposed to be released for subscribers, but which was actually held off to be nickel & dimed later. Content, which could be in game right now.
What do you propose we do, thank them for showing us the middle finger & making our time less valuable than the B2P crowd's?
And in the end, we don't even get one DLC's worth of Crowns in return.
You really take apologism to a whole new level.
Again, please actually think about how DLC works compared to the current payment model.
Current payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included.
TU payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included, or, alternatively, buy DLC separately and forego the monthly fee.
Either way, you're paying the exact same amount if you choose to stay subscribed. If you had stopped your subscription under the current model, you wouldn't have been able to access that DLC in the future anyway.
P.S. You have no idea what updates could be "in game right now" (hint: 1.6 is the only one), but if you have any evidence to suggest otherwise, feel free to present it.
Except the highlighted, which just isn't true & I even posted evidence about it.
I can't tell what happened to my post (it seems to have mysteriously vanished), but if you want to take a look at that evidence, I suggest you to begin by reading what @Seraphyel wrote on the previous page and then taking a look at statements between QuakeCon & last month's Q&A.
Have a good day.---P.S. If quoting what people working at Zenimax have said & expressing fair criticism for the business decisions of the company is somehow against Community Rules, I would very much like to be informed atleast (leave me an explanation why a post was removed for instance).
So when ZO directly says that ESO Plus membership grants you, "Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership," they're... what? Speaking in code?
Well, a subscription won't give us access to ALL created content. You'd still need to pay more than a subscription if you want all Crown store items.
Which, given the previous existence of a cash shop for things like the Palomino Horse, isn't a change either.
Access to actual DLC (not random vanity items) is still included in an ESO Plus membership.Edited by nerevarine1138 on March 1, 2015 11:32PM----
Murray?0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sorry.. it's just bad form on ZOS part.
10 months of subs is equal to $150 and 1,000 crowns.
ONE month sub if made today is $15 and worth 1,500 crowns. ($135 less and 500 more crowns)
That's pouring salt into the wound if you ask me.
No.
10 months of subs is equal to 10 months of access to the servers under the subscription payment model.
1 month of ESO Plus membership is equal to 1 month of ESO Plus benefits under the new model plus free access to the servers.
You cannot compare month-to-month under radically different payment models.
15 per month is 15 per month what do you mean with different payment model??
I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
Under the current payment model, we pay for access to the servers. In a couple of weeks, we won't have to do that anymore. Different payment models.
Let me give you another example. Imaging that you bought an apartment in a building and you have a contract with the agency to whom belong the rest of the building that you will pay them each month a fee and they will use the money to maintain the building and they will make improvements in your apartment and renovate it. Lets say that they will use 30% of the money for maintaining the building and 70% for the renovation. After 9 months they told you that now if you want the renovation that they planned you have to pay for it.Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »...is insulting!
Once the game goes F2P, subscribers will receive 1500 Crowns a month.
We should receive the same 1500 crowns for each month we've subscribed. To give us less than that suggests that the time we've spent in ESO is worth LESS than future subscriptions.
Kind of reminds me of the whole 30 CP option they were going to give. They changed the CP distribution.... They need to change this.
EDIT: The consensus seems to be that 500 or so would be reasonable.
EDIT: This post now has over 150 "Agrees"! It's good to know so many others feel the same way about the 100 crowns!
I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but here I go...
Zenimax Online isn't entitled to give you anything in return for the months you played before. You know why? Because you payed for a subscription fee under a different policy and the chart you sign with Zenimax will not even be the same when Tamriel Unlimited goes live.
Basicaly ESO+ membership is going to be a whole new thing part of a new promotional offer and by giving them money previously you accepted their previous offer and conditions in which they have clearly stipulated, as a company, they were in no way obliged to compensate you for anything should that offer change.
Exemple : Lets say I buy a cofee machine for 150.00€. A month later, I see that same machine only at 120.00€ with an extra set of cups of cofee. Can I claim my 30.00€ back and get my set of cups of cofee for free? Nope, because it's part of another promotion package deal and it works exactly the same way for video games (including MMO subscribtions).
So be happy you even got something... because legaly, they could just have completely ignored the old playerbase and give it absolutely nothing in compensation.
We got only 2-3 veteran dungeons, one zone Craglorn with trials and DSA and thats it. For the rest we have to pay. If ZoS needs 5 USD per month for maintenance and the rest 10 they use for new content, then I gave them 90 USD for nine months and received almost nothing. I bought the game for 60 USD and received 10 times more content that I got for the 90 USD that I paid for content. Now we have to pay for the content that they developed while we were paying.
And if they stayed under the subscription model, how would this change?
You still wouldn't get access to the new content if you stopped paying for your subscription. You'd still have to pay to even get access to the core game.
The problem is that you (and most of the people in this thread) think that when a company spends their earned money on specific items, that you somehow become entitled to those items. If ZO had said, "We're using subscription fees to finance the company waterpark," that wouldn't mean that you were entitled to free admission to the waterpark.
Oh I see - sorry - I intend to still sub - so for me those who subbed before and those who still do - same payment model :-)
ETA: the rest though is whatevs - I was only asking what you meant by different payment model.
It's still not the same payment model.
You're paying the same monthly fee, but you now receive a monthly allowance of Crowns (in addition to still having access to all the DLC). And more importantly, the people who don't pay a monthly fee will still have access to the same core game. So while it will feel the same for you, the payment model is entirely different.
Yes, in addition to all the DLC that was supposed to be released for subscribers, but which was actually held off to be nickel & dimed later. Content, which could be in game right now.
What do you propose we do, thank them for showing us the middle finger & making our time less valuable than the B2P crowd's?
And in the end, we don't even get one DLC's worth of Crowns in return.
You really take apologism to a whole new level.
Again, please actually think about how DLC works compared to the current payment model.
Current payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included.
TU payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included, or, alternatively, buy DLC separately and forego the monthly fee.
Either way, you're paying the exact same amount if you choose to stay subscribed. If you had stopped your subscription under the current model, you wouldn't have been able to access that DLC in the future anyway.
P.S. You have no idea what updates could be "in game right now" (hint: 1.6 is the only one), but if you have any evidence to suggest otherwise, feel free to present it.
Except the highlighted, which just isn't true & I even posted evidence about it.
I can't tell what happened to my post (it seems to have mysteriously vanished), but if you want to take a look at that evidence, I suggest you to begin by reading what @Seraphyel wrote on the previous page and then taking a look at statements between QuakeCon & last month's Q&A.
Have a good day.---P.S. If quoting what people working at Zenimax have said & expressing fair criticism for the business decisions of the company is somehow against Community Rules, I would very much like to be informed atleast (leave me an explanation why a post was removed for instance).
So when ZO directly says that ESO Plus membership grants you, "Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership," they're... what? Speaking in code?
I'm sorry, is the text too small for you?
If so, my apologies. I have no idea how to make it bigger (I can read it just fine though).
Here, maybe if I cut off the other parts you'll have no trouble reading/understanding:nerevarine1138 wrote: »Current payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included.nerevarine1138 wrote: »P.S. You have no idea what updates could be "in game right now" (hint: 1.6 is the only one), but if you have any evidence to suggest otherwise, feel free to present it.Except the highlighted, which just isn't true & I even posted evidence about it.
I can't tell what happened to my post (it seems to have mysteriously vanished), but if you want to take a look at that evidence, I suggest you to begin by reading what @Seraphyel wrote on the previous page and then taking a look at statements between QuakeCon & last month's Q&A.
Tip: if you are having a hard time reading, you can make the text bigger by holding ctrl & scrolling with your mouse.
Note: might wary, depending on OS.Edited by DDuke on March 1, 2015 11:41PM0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sorry.. it's just bad form on ZOS part.
10 months of subs is equal to $150 and 1,000 crowns.
ONE month sub if made today is $15 and worth 1,500 crowns. ($135 less and 500 more crowns)
That's pouring salt into the wound if you ask me.
No.
10 months of subs is equal to 10 months of access to the servers under the subscription payment model.
1 month of ESO Plus membership is equal to 1 month of ESO Plus benefits under the new model plus free access to the servers.
You cannot compare month-to-month under radically different payment models.
15 per month is 15 per month what do you mean with different payment model??
I would have thought that was fairly obvious.
Under the current payment model, we pay for access to the servers. In a couple of weeks, we won't have to do that anymore. Different payment models.
Let me give you another example. Imaging that you bought an apartment in a building and you have a contract with the agency to whom belong the rest of the building that you will pay them each month a fee and they will use the money to maintain the building and they will make improvements in your apartment and renovate it. Lets say that they will use 30% of the money for maintaining the building and 70% for the renovation. After 9 months they told you that now if you want the renovation that they planned you have to pay for it.Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »...is insulting!
Once the game goes F2P, subscribers will receive 1500 Crowns a month.
We should receive the same 1500 crowns for each month we've subscribed. To give us less than that suggests that the time we've spent in ESO is worth LESS than future subscriptions.
Kind of reminds me of the whole 30 CP option they were going to give. They changed the CP distribution.... They need to change this.
EDIT: The consensus seems to be that 500 or so would be reasonable.
EDIT: This post now has over 150 "Agrees"! It's good to know so many others feel the same way about the 100 crowns!
I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but here I go...
Zenimax Online isn't entitled to give you anything in return for the months you played before. You know why? Because you payed for a subscription fee under a different policy and the chart you sign with Zenimax will not even be the same when Tamriel Unlimited goes live.
Basicaly ESO+ membership is going to be a whole new thing part of a new promotional offer and by giving them money previously you accepted their previous offer and conditions in which they have clearly stipulated, as a company, they were in no way obliged to compensate you for anything should that offer change.
Exemple : Lets say I buy a cofee machine for 150.00€. A month later, I see that same machine only at 120.00€ with an extra set of cups of cofee. Can I claim my 30.00€ back and get my set of cups of cofee for free? Nope, because it's part of another promotion package deal and it works exactly the same way for video games (including MMO subscribtions).
So be happy you even got something... because legaly, they could just have completely ignored the old playerbase and give it absolutely nothing in compensation.
We got only 2-3 veteran dungeons, one zone Craglorn with trials and DSA and thats it. For the rest we have to pay. If ZoS needs 5 USD per month for maintenance and the rest 10 they use for new content, then I gave them 90 USD for nine months and received almost nothing. I bought the game for 60 USD and received 10 times more content that I got for the 90 USD that I paid for content. Now we have to pay for the content that they developed while we were paying.
And if they stayed under the subscription model, how would this change?
You still wouldn't get access to the new content if you stopped paying for your subscription. You'd still have to pay to even get access to the core game.
The problem is that you (and most of the people in this thread) think that when a company spends their earned money on specific items, that you somehow become entitled to those items. If ZO had said, "We're using subscription fees to finance the company waterpark," that wouldn't mean that you were entitled to free admission to the waterpark.
Oh I see - sorry - I intend to still sub - so for me those who subbed before and those who still do - same payment model :-)
ETA: the rest though is whatevs - I was only asking what you meant by different payment model.
It's still not the same payment model.
You're paying the same monthly fee, but you now receive a monthly allowance of Crowns (in addition to still having access to all the DLC). And more importantly, the people who don't pay a monthly fee will still have access to the same core game. So while it will feel the same for you, the payment model is entirely different.
Yes, in addition to all the DLC that was supposed to be released for subscribers, but which was actually held off to be nickel & dimed later. Content, which could be in game right now.
What do you propose we do, thank them for showing us the middle finger & making our time less valuable than the B2P crowd's?
And in the end, we don't even get one DLC's worth of Crowns in return.
You really take apologism to a whole new level.
Again, please actually think about how DLC works compared to the current payment model.
Current payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included.
TU payment model: Pay a monthly fee for access to the whole game, all updates/DLC included, or, alternatively, buy DLC separately and forego the monthly fee.
Either way, you're paying the exact same amount if you choose to stay subscribed. If you had stopped your subscription under the current model, you wouldn't have been able to access that DLC in the future anyway.
P.S. You have no idea what updates could be "in game right now" (hint: 1.6 is the only one), but if you have any evidence to suggest otherwise, feel free to present it.
Except the highlighted, which just isn't true & I even posted evidence about it.
I can't tell what happened to my post (it seems to have mysteriously vanished), but if you want to take a look at that evidence, I suggest you to begin by reading what @Seraphyel wrote on the previous page and then taking a look at statements between QuakeCon & last month's Q&A.
Have a good day.---P.S. If quoting what people working at Zenimax have said & expressing fair criticism for the business decisions of the company is somehow against Community Rules, I would very much like to be informed atleast (leave me an explanation why a post was removed for instance).
So when ZO directly says that ESO Plus membership grants you, "Access to all downloadable content for the duration of membership," they're... what? Speaking in code?
Well, a subscription won't give us access to ALL created content. You'd still need to pay more than a subscription if you want all Crown store items.
Which, given the previous existence of a cash shop for things like the Palomino Horse, isn't a change either.
Access to actual DLC (not random vanity items) is still included in an ESO Plus membership.
It has changed. Two items in an unchanging, stagnant, external cash shop to an updated one or more times per month in game cash shop are two very different things. If a player wants to have everything offered they'll may end up spending $30+ every month. That's quite different than $15 all inclusive.What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Dreamo84✭✭✭truthfully, do thy really owe us anything extra? Some people cite dealing with so many problems and bugs and the whole year being a "beta test".
If it was really that bad though, why did you stay? I have a hard time believing anyone was just that self sacrificing and devoured to ZOS that they were willig to pay and suffer subscribing to a game they were not enjoying.
You can spin it anyway you want but this is all just coming off extremely Whiney and childish, they literally have no reason to offer anything extra and you have no right to expect it.
I just do not get the entitled attitude of people. Get over yourselves, you are not the mother Theresa of MMORPGs,Dream it, wish it, do it... or something...3
This discussion has been closed.