How do you feel about the B2P announcement

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Yup. But hey, we can still have some occasional angry or nostalgia sex after she becomes f2p.

But I wouldn't invest myself anymore and I'll leave notes under the toilet seat for other to be warned not to.

Hortator Mopa

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

67% Don't like it.
29% Like it.

Yep they are "Doing it because the fans asked for it".

Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.

EQBallzz

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

It's pretty sad. I have been looking forward to 1.6 for a while. I have loved ESO since beta but ever since the whole 30 CP fiasco..and now the B2P announcement I'm having trouble mustering the interest/desire to even log in.

I canceled my sub (that expires in February) during the 30 CP thing and then resubbed once they sort of rectified that problem but now that they have announced the B2P thing I have serious doubts that I will hang around beyond my new 3 month sub. I'm basically going to give 1.6 a chance for that 3 month time period and hope that it can deliver without going down the bad B2P/F2P path that I fear it's currently on.

Some of the upcoming changes sound pretty good but many of those changes seem to have been put on the back burner or pushed so far down the road that it might not even matter. They also have a long way to go IMO to restore faith in their current customers. There has been some serious reputation damage here as of late and if 1.6 doesn't go well and/or armor/weapons/motiffs/etc.. start popping up in the crown store I will be long gone and I bet many others will, too.

Oolou

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Really disappointed. I left a F2P game that had a cash shop for microtransactions or subscriptions model, like the one being implemented here. Yeah, those who subbed got access to everything ... until the game introduced expansions which they didn't get access to ( one of those expansions not offering more than what you'd get in a regular update).

And after that most of the new DLC was ... can you guess? Yup, for the expansions.

Sure, that ain't gonna happen here. MMmmhmm.

blah.

Upside is that two friends are now going to try it. But eh ... I really don't know if I'm going to continue to sub.

eisberg

Like - may draw in more population due to lack of monthly fees

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

67% Don't like it.
29% Like it.

Yep they are "Doing it because the fans asked for it".

Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.

Because a forum poll on a forum that you have to pay to get into is all that reliable? Umm, no.

LuxLunae

Like - may draw in more population due to lack of monthly fees

eisberg wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

67% Don't like it.
29% Like it.

Yep they are "Doing it because the fans asked for it".

Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.

Because a forum poll on a forum that you have to pay to get into is all that reliable? Umm, no.

Exactly what I was going to say!!!

The fans consist of the people who are in this forum, People who payed once to play oblivion and skyrim, and people who play other MMOs

So even if it was 100% yes, that's like 2/3 or more people who are unaccounted for.

Bouvin

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Leeric wrote: »

For all those saying you like the changes based on what ZOS has said they will and won't do for the changes. Example, they said it won't be Pay to Win

Let me ask you this, if the company has lied about what they were going to do, why would you trust them now? Just curious as to others thought process about this.

And how many MMOs say they aren't Pay to Win?....but the community knows they are....SWTOR...for example...

But if they keep telling us it "isn't pay to win" there are a bunch of people that will believe it, even though they know better. Or at least tell themselves they believe it.

That's cognitive dissonance, and sheeple are very susceptible to it.

Basically what ZOS is doing is called propaganda, and companies have become very good at it because it is very effective on the sheeples.

eisberg

Like - may draw in more population due to lack of monthly fees

Bouvin wrote: »

Leeric wrote: »

For all those saying you like the changes based on what ZOS has said they will and won't do for the changes. Example, they said it won't be Pay to Win

Let me ask you this, if the company has lied about what they were going to do, why would you trust them now? Just curious as to others thought process about this.

And how many MMOs say they aren't Pay to Win?....but the community knows they are....SWTOR...for example...

But if they keep telling us it "isn't pay to win" there are a bunch of people that will believe it, even though they know better. Or at least tell themselves they believe it.

That's cognitive dissonance, and sheeple are very susceptible to it.

Basically what ZOS is doing is called propaganda, and companies have become very good at it because it is very effective on the sheeples.

I believe at this time they have no plans to make it "pay to win". Does this mean they will never make it "pay to win", no, it just means at this time they have no plans for it at this time. Just like how they were telling the truth when they stated they had no plans of moving away from the subscription model, but things changed, they had to make a change. They didn't lie then. If something changes again, and they have to make it "pay to win" then I will evaluate the situation at that time and either continue playing, or stop playing.

Bouvin

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

eisberg wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

67% Don't like it.
29% Like it.

Yep they are "Doing it because the fans asked for it".

Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.

Because a forum poll on a forum that you have to pay to get into is all that reliable? Umm, no.

Obviously people who are unwilling to pay a sub now are for not paying a sub.

But they aren't the type of players who will dedicate a lot of time to the game, stick around long, or want to see it continue to be developed by paying a sub.

At the same time, the players who have subbed since day 1, dedicated a lot of time to the game, and want to pay to see it developed are being driven away. Because those players chose this game because they wanted to play a game that didn't have F2P Cash Shop game problems.

Now that is all changed, and those players will be driven away, to be replaced by new players that won't stick around long.

Not a smart move by ZOS, but after the huge hemorage of subscriptions in the first months when the game was broken and bugged in so many aspects (it was really bad at release) they probably just can't make ends meet anymore.

Maybe one of these days a MMO will be released that isn't so full of bugs at the start that it loses half of it's subscriptions in the first couple of months... that MMO might actually be successful.

DDuke

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

eisberg wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

67% Don't like it.
29% Like it.

Yep they are "Doing it because the fans asked for it".

Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.

Because a forum poll on a forum that you have to pay to get into is all that reliable? Umm, no.

"Doing it because the fans asked for it".

The people who didn't feel this game was "worth paying for" when it was P2P aren't fans. They are parasites.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Dislike - other

Fenris wrote: »

Please choose which one is the closest to your feelings. Curiosity here. Personally, I like the way the game was and am fearful of any changes B2P might bring. P2P always guarantees that anyone playing is at the same advantage as the rest. In P2P, time commitment, skill, and in-game choices are the only factors separating players.

I am curious as to what everyone else thinks, because there are other sides to everything.

I feel like I paid ZoS to test their game for console kiddies and they are throwing me a few garbage crowns and stupid pets as "reward".

NewBlacksmurf

Like - all of the "likes" above

Wow...maybe I should wait and come back in March

Hortator Mopa

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

eisberg wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

67% Don't like it.
29% Like it.

Yep they are "Doing it because the fans asked for it".

Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.

Because a forum poll on a forum that you have to pay to get into is all that reliable? Umm, no.

LuxLunae wrote: »

eisberg wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

67% Don't like it.
29% Like it.

Yep they are "Doing it because the fans asked for it".

Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.

Because a forum poll on a forum that you have to pay to get into is all that reliable? Umm, no.

Exactly what I was going to say!!!

The fans consist of the people who are in this forum, People who payed once to play oblivion and skyrim, and people who play other MMOs

So even if it was 100% yes, that's like 2/3 or more people who are unaccounted for.

You both pretending to be potato? or are you actually potato?

How do you think they will get money from people who dont pay sub to continue running when it goes b2p.If they dont want to pay a small $15 to play a month, then why would they pay money at all in the crown store lol.

Is logic hard or something?

Joejudas

Like - may draw in more population due to lack of monthly fees

Compound this b2p with the very bad 1.6 loss of character progression and right now we have a recipient for disaster. Also after testing 1.6 I change my vote to all dislikes. I smell exp boosters from 1.6 aftermath in the cash shop

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Joejudas wrote: »

Compound this b2p with the very bad 1.6 loss of character progression and right now we have a recipient for disaster. Also after testing 1.6 I change my vote to all dislikes. I smell exp boosters from 1.6 aftermath in the cash shop

Boosters are already in most likely. They said there would be "time saving convenience" which can be anything from booster to instant lvl50.
The eso+ has an integrated boost too. So it is easy to imagine similar advantages being sold.

We already know, from what they anounced, that the cash shop will start with p2w and will get worse with paid skill lines.
Zos is no longer a trustworthy company. Even if they were sincere at launch, they have prepared this switch for a few months behind our back and are breaking their word.
There are no reasons to believe that the p2w aspect won't get even worse.
And finaly, every single mmorpg cash shop in history ended up p2w. It simply is the only way to earn revenue with this model. And even then, it's less than subscription so things will necesarily be cut.

texhnolyze

Like - may draw in more population due to lack of monthly fees

I tried the beta and I actually liked it.
Didn't think the game worth my sub though, I prefer a one-time paid games.

Hortator Mopa

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

texhnolyze wrote: »

I tried the beta and I actually liked it.
Didn't think the game worth my sub though, I prefer a one-time paid games.

i am happy people like you who dont like the game enough to sub now get to play it while people who truly like the game are subjected to a inevitable p2w system ruining the game for them.

Thank god you like it.

texhnolyze

Like - may draw in more population due to lack of monthly fees

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

texhnolyze wrote: »

I tried the beta and I actually liked it.
Didn't think the game worth my sub though, I prefer a one-time paid games.

i am happy people like you who dont like the game enough to sub now get to play it while people who truly like the game are subjected to a inevitable p2w system ruining the game for them.

Thank god you like it.

Well, I'm not a very competitive player, just a casual who loves strolling around doing quests. One thing I know is that the "P2W players" won't be able to do anything to me while I'm not in Cyrodill.

Hortator Mopa

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

texhnolyze wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

texhnolyze wrote: »

I tried the beta and I actually liked it.
Didn't think the game worth my sub though, I prefer a one-time paid games.

i am happy people like you who dont like the game enough to sub now get to play it while people who truly like the game are subjected to a inevitable p2w system ruining the game for them.

Thank god you like it.

Well, I'm not a very competitive player, just a casual who loves strolling around doing quests. One thing I know is that the "P2W players" won't be able to do anything to me while I'm not in Cyrodill.

Oh thats just perfect hey, so amazing, the huge fan base enjoying the game when it was sub just dont compare to that feeling of not paying a cent for something that you can enjoy, after all noone EVER is competitive and who cares it ruins the game for true fans.

Life is just good.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

As for the polls accuracy: No poll in existance is 100% accurate.
Most are of 1000-2500 people to represent populations of millions.
That's good enough to get a good feeling of the general population and opinion trends. They don't need to be accurate.

What this poll here shows is the opinion of over 1000 people out of a population of a few hundred thousands. The sample is biased towards those that care enough about the game to have bought it and hang out on forums.

In short, this poll shows the opinion of those tgat matter for the long term survival of an mmo.

I don't doubt there may be 100ks people out there that want to see the game go b2p and millions that want it to be f2p, but their opinions don't matter.
Retention is more important than acquisition. Especially when dealing with fickle and greedy new players that just want to consume without giving back.

Hortator Mopa

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

As for the polls accuracy: No poll in existance is 100% accurate.
Most are of 1000-2500 people to represent populations of millions.
That's good enough to get a good feeling of the general population and opinion trends. They don't need to be accurate.

What this poll here shows is the opinion of over 1000 people out of a population of a few hundred thousands. The sample is biased towards those that care enough about the game to have bought it and hang out on forums.

In short, this poll shows the opinion of those tgat matter for the long term survival of an mmo.

I don't doubt there may be 100ks people out there that want to see the game go b2p and millions that want it to be f2p, but their opinions don't matter.
Retention is more important than acquisition. Especially when dealing with fickle and greedy new players that just want to consume without giving back.

exactly. well put.

Akselmo

Like - all of the "likes" above

I like it, since more of my friends are willing to play the game now. I don't have to play alone, yay!

If there's no regular content, I don't see a reason to pay subscription. That's why it makes more sense in games like EVE: There's updates almost every second month. In ESO there's not.

I can finally play the game at my own pace, and don't have to squeeze everything within that one month I'm paying for. I don't have much money to begin with, since I'm a student, but now that I had some extra I subbed back to ESO. Cool that I don't have to do that anymore in future.

The naysayers here are most likely the minority, and many of them seem to keep themselves a lot better than the "average gamer." I don't think these people will be missed.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

@Akselmo‌
There is a reason people pay for things: nothing is free.
If you want quality, if you want content, if you want good service and if you want bugs to be fixed, the devs have to be paid somehow.

The b2p model doesn't pay long term. It is not a sustainable model, it is inevitable that the game will stop being worth even your time.

As a student your money has a lot of value to you, so does your time, yet you estimated that the game was worth it. This is a sign that the game has truly improved and is worth a subscription. if it continues to improve, it will eventually be worth the money and time of your friends too.

That's how MMOs work. They start high at launch, then lose 80% of their players, then they improve and regain them back months after months by becoming worht their subs and more.
But for that to happen, the game has to actually improve.

What you are celebrating is that you'll be able to enjoy for free a few months of the game until your selfishness and the greed of others will drive it down the f2p nightmare avenue.

Akselmo

Like - all of the "likes" above

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

@Akselmo‌

What you are celebrating is that you'll be able to enjoy for free a few months of the game until your selfishness and the greed of others will drive it down the f2p nightmare avenue.

Look at GW2. It never had sub fee and has a gem store which you use real money on. There's no P2W items, only costumes and exp boosts etc. Things that don't make you "win."
Now it's getting it's first expansion. Sure, it took time, but it happened. The game has a huge community and lots of players.

Now, ESO will have a sub fee you CAN pay if you want to get extra stuff and a cash shop. I'd say ESO has much higher chances to thrive succesfully forward than GW2, since there's possibility for more income. I will probably use cash shop sometimes, to buy a guar mount for example.

But, it all boils down to the devs. If they actually care about their game, they will update it. It will be slower, but it will happen (hopefully). Devs and the community have to work together to make the game succeed further.

And if it is succesful, people will buy the game more and more, thus making B2P succesful model.

I doubt that the game will go F2P. The Secret World has had B2P model with optional subscription for long time now and it's still alive.

Anyway, we're taking risks when we buy games like this. You'll never know when the world is simply going to die down. And arguing on internet with strangers about it isn't helping anyone.

Audigy

Based on my experience with GW2 and SWTOR, ESO wont be mine anymore. I don't like that I must pay for things that should be free.

Be it bank slots, char slots or such silly things like keys to a chest or the ability to use a mount, run faster or do pvp.

I also find it really weird that players with a sub must pay twice, first for playing the DLC and then for actually unlocking it once they sub off.

That said, I wish those a lot of fun who stay and enjoy that new F2P design. ESO is after all a great game

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

XP boosts are p2w, selling gems in game for money is just a "legal" way of buying gold , gw2 has gear for sale on the store, those rng chests with keys, etc. They are doing nearly every trick in the book to make their cash shop work.
Yet, the expansion is to compensate for the fact they have lost revenue consistently every year by about 20-30%. (disregarding the first year after launch where it is natural to lose revenue)
Funcom, as a whole, is also losing revenue in the same pattern and barely makes what ESO does now with 4 games in their roster.

People will not pay for a sub in ESO, they will perhaps buy stuff in one shot, or a dlc they are interested in, but it will never compensate for the subscription revenue. The state of every f2p/b2p mmorpg out there is proof of that.
Objectively, b2p is f2p once the box sales dwindle. There is still the susbcription revenue to replace, and for that, you have only the cash shop.
It's just not sustainable.

We are doing our job as a community to make the game succeed. Heck, this community has been the best and most vocal defenders of their game I've seen, and I played Darkfall!

Our job now, discussing things over the internet, is to explain to those for which this is their first MMO that it isn't going to be a good change and that everyone loses. And for some if not most of the guys at ZOS and the parent company, this is their first MMO too. They probably think this is going to make them more money.

No game ever gained by doing such a switch, ESO won't be the "chosen one".

If people realize this soon enough, maybe we can avoid a "heartbreak" for the gamers and losing their jobs for the devs.

ChuckyPayne

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

ESO yet P2P, most of us love this model. This poll unnecessary because it is not authentic.

Anyone know of any game in which improvement was seen after payment model has changed to B2P or F2P: faster development? more enjoyable playable content? I don't know but I have bad feeling about it. More player, more money, more lag, fewer interactable objects, fewer nodes, slower guild bank, slower mail.

I hope many sub system will crush and will unusable because then they will fix its with top priority.

The head start was very fluent, I loved it, but of course we saw many problems, we will see again .

Joejudas

Like - may draw in more population due to lack of monthly fees

Akselmo wrote: »

I like it, since more of my friends are willing to play the game now. I don't have to play alone, yay!

If there's no regular content, I don't see a reason to pay subscription. That's why it makes more sense in games like EVE: There's updates almost every second month. In ESO there's not.

I can finally play the game at my own pace, and don't have to squeeze everything within that one month I'm paying for. I don't have much money to begin with, since I'm a student, but now that I had some extra I subbed back to ESO. Cool that I don't have to do that anymore in future.

The naysayers here are most likely the minority, and many of them seem to keep themselves a lot better than the "average gamer." I don't think these people will be missed.

and your why this game will die.

DeLindsay

Akselmo wrote: »

If there's no regular content, I don't see a reason to pay subscription. That's why it makes more sense in games like EVE: There's updates almost every second month. In ESO there's not.

Yes but in Eve you can actually play for free if you choose to. Plex doesn't cost that much, you could earn that in a single day playing the Market or running LvL 4's. Your analogy isn't as accurate as you'd like it to be. I'm fine with ESO being a mix of B2P/P2P as long as it doesn't become P2W. Unfortunately what we're seeing on PTS so far with the change in Legendary drop rates via Hirelings and the non-existent "significant" increase ZoS said they added to Refining as well as Writs/Surveys we may very well be seeing Legendary crafting mats in the store before too long. It would be a shame to see that happen.

We may also see XP Pots to help with the Champion System since on PTS it's taking Players FAR longer than ZoS said it should to gain a single CP. Ofc, ZoS would toss them up there as a "convenience" to us.

Akselmo

Like - all of the "likes" above

DeLindsay wrote: »

Akselmo wrote: »

If there's no regular content, I don't see a reason to pay subscription. That's why it makes more sense in games like EVE: There's updates almost every second month. In ESO there's not.

Yes but in Eve you can actually play for free if you choose to. Plex doesn't cost that much, you could earn that in a single day playing the Market or running LvL 4's.

Ah true, I overlooked that little fact. My bad.

Joejudas wrote: »

Akselmo wrote: »

snip

and your why this game will die.

Okay, I'm solely the reason for the game dying. Oh dear.

I guess I'm the evil villain here after all.

I will be supporting the game, but not with a monthly sub. I'm sure I will occasionally buy something from the cash shop.

But feel free to hate me. I can be your scapegoat if you need to hate someone on internet.