How do you feel about the B2P announcement

Leeric

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

For all those saying you like the changes based on what ZOS has said they will and won't do for the changes. Example, they said it won't be Pay to Win

Let me ask you this, if the company has lied about what they were going to do, why would you trust them now? Just curious as to others thought process about this.

And how many MMOs say they aren't Pay to Win?....but the community knows they are....SWTOR...for example...

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Leeric wrote: »

For all those saying you like the changes based on what ZOS has said they will and won't do for the changes. Example, they said it won't be Pay to Win

Let me ask you this, if the company has lied about what they were going to do, why would you trust them now? Just curious as to others thought process about this.

And how many MMOs say they aren't Pay to Win?....but the community knows they are....SWTOR...for example...

Exactly this.

We already know that there will be skill lines DLC and that there will be gear drop DLCs.

This is p2w.

Heck, even the sub bonuses and the time saving boosters are a form of p2w. If for equal time commitment and player skill you end up stronger thanks to paying, there isn't much debate.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Dislike - other

eisberg wrote: »

Forum polls are really meaningless, there is nothing scientific about them to be considered as accurate information. The best forums can do is make developers aware of issues for them to look into, but that doesn't mean it would sway any decision. Sure 69% of the people who clicked on that poll dislike, but for all we know 90% of the people who bought this game like this change.

they say "we listen to the players" coughbullchipscough, by your logic that makes polls and forum topics worthless? note that down if you ever have a complaint that might be fixable.

i can give you one concrete fact, 100% of the players that are paying and playing now are willing to pay monthly.

Shadow-Fighter

Dislike - other

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

eisberg wrote: »

Forum polls are really meaningless, there is nothing scientific about them to be considered as accurate information. The best forums can do is make developers aware of issues for them to look into, but that doesn't mean it would sway any decision. Sure 69% of the people who clicked on that poll dislike, but for all we know 90% of the people who bought this game like this change.

they say "we listen to the players" coughbullchipscough, by your logic that makes polls and forum topics worthless? note that down if you ever have a complaint that might be fixable.

i can give you one concrete fact, 100% of the players that are paying and playing now are willing to pay monthly.

/sign

But I think they listen to the players on reddit forums much often as here

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Join us today at 1:00PM EST to ask us questions about Tamriel Unlimited, ESO Plus, the Crown Store, console, and more! We’ll have members of the ESO development team present including:

• Matt Firor, Game Director
• Paul Sage, Creative Director
• Nick Konkle, Lead Designer
• Chris Strasz, Lead Gameplay Designer
• Eric Wrobel, Lead Combat Designer
• Lee Ridout, Lead E-Commerce Designer

This will be hosted on the ESO subreddit page (linked below), and we’ll answering questions until 3:00PM EST. Hope to see you there!

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tepef/eso_reddit_ama_from_1pm_to_3pm_est_on_friday/

seanvwolf

Dislike - other

ESO's subscription model was sold to the public as a vision shared by Zenimax Media that a premium service was the only way to provide consistent and meaningful content to the community where the customer gets the whole experience.

Choosing for the PC version to go B2P just for the consoles (which may have great initial box sales but unknown sub/dlc purchase tendencies) is in direct contradiction to the earlier vision. I would feel totally bamboozled if I didn't feel I wasn't already getting a good experience in ESO and it's community for my previous subscription dollars. This community has been the best I had experienced in an MMO since early EQ and DAoC. I have ZOS to thank for that.

The moment I see the community devolve more than the content (not cash shop items) keeps me engaged, I'm sadly stepping away.

Razzak

Dislike - fears of cash shop roadblocks on content

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

eisberg wrote: »

Forum polls are really meaningless, there is nothing scientific about them to be considered as accurate information. The best forums can do is make developers aware of issues for them to look into, but that doesn't mean it would sway any decision. Sure 69% of the people who clicked on that poll dislike, but for all we know 90% of the people who bought this game like this change.

they say "we listen to the players" coughbullchipscough, by your logic that makes polls and forum topics worthless? note that down if you ever have a complaint that might be fixable.

i can give you one concrete fact, 100% of the players that are paying and playing now are willing to pay monthly.

But not if that means waiting for 6+ months for new content, while they invest majority of their time and efforts into console and cash shop.

Morshire

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

i can give you one concrete fact, 100% of the players that are paying and playing now are willing to pay monthly.

And this is the first % thing that I can say that I 100% agree with. I truly don't think we are going to be able to derail the B2P plans laid out (too much work is already invested into the decision) but hopefully, the dropped subs already, and the future threat of dropped subs, will keep the devs focused on what the players truly want (a great gaming experience) and not on the damn cash shop and ways to milk us. Personally, I don't care if 10K threads like these spring up, and even if they are 100% likely not "accurate", they will at least show that 100% of the people voting on them are 100% committed to their statements. And the 99.999999999999% of the answers indict, DO NOT GO P2W.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Dislike - other

Razzak wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

eisberg wrote: »

Forum polls are really meaningless, there is nothing scientific about them to be considered as accurate information. The best forums can do is make developers aware of issues for them to look into, but that doesn't mean it would sway any decision. Sure 69% of the people who clicked on that poll dislike, but for all we know 90% of the people who bought this game like this change.

they say "we listen to the players" coughbullchipscough, by your logic that makes polls and forum topics worthless? note that down if you ever have a complaint that might be fixable.

i can give you one concrete fact, 100% of the players that are paying and playing now are willing to pay monthly.

But not if that means waiting for 6+ months for new content, while they invest majority of their time and efforts into console and cash shop.

not trying to be a ***, but you read too much into my statement. it was just a remark to the constant fantasy-percentages that come out of no where.

Morshire wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

i can give you one concrete fact, 100% of the players that are paying and playing now are willing to pay monthly.

And this is the first % thing that I can say that I 100% agree with. I truly don't think we are going to be able to derail the B2P plans laid out (too much work is already invested into the decision) but hopefully, the dropped subs already, and the future threat of dropped subs, will keep the devs focused on what the players truly want (a great gaming experience) and not on the damn cash shop and ways to milk us. Personally, I don't care if 10K threads like these spring up, and even if they are 100% likely not "accurate", they will at least show that 100% of the people voting on them are 100% committed to their statements. And the 99.999999999999% of the answers indict, DO NOT GO P2W.

i agree, its too late. they probably ninja-dropped this the way they did so players couldn't do anything to stop it. already F2P has attracted a small number of players, and the ones that haven't already joined are surely being their ad campaign. they probably hope the f2p supporters will drown out the others that have a difference of opinion.

Cathrin

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

I haven't been here for some time now. When I finally came back, I had to read about the new planned B2P system of this game.

I really don't know what to make out of this. Until now, every player had the same chances in the game (except for imperials maybe). With the new system, players that pay extra will have XP and gold boosts and maybe some weird items from the shop.
I have no problem in paying for playing the game at all, but keep a subscription just for a little extra, while everyone else can play the game for free... I dunno.
B2P is just another word for Pay2Win. That really ruins it for me.

Then there is the fact, that I feel like a paying beta tester for the console version of the game. Gone are all the promises, no, they even sell the step to B2P as the wish of the players. No new content every 3 months, why should they bring them anyway. The new console players have enough content to explore, before they hit the point, most of us are at right now.

My biggest fear, however, is that a lot of kiddies with bad attitude and language will come to the game, ruinung the whole atmosphere. There is a difference in paying once for a game to play it or keeping a subscription.

Oh and last but not least: I think, all of this was planned some time ago. Why do we get the information this late? They were still talking about update 1.6, the justice system, the imperial city map etc. No words of the planned changes.

jpatek0501ub17_ESO

Dislike - other

Somnariffic:Did the fact that you were going B2P slow down the release of new content? Is that why there has been so little since the summer?

ZOS_Sage
Anything we add to the game does cost dev time, so the answer is "yes." That said, 1.6 has a huge number of changes, and all of those changes, Champion, Balance Changes and Justice had far more to do with it than our Crown Store. This is a big update!

DDuke

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

jpatek0501ub17_ESO wrote: »

Somnariffic:Did the fact that you were going B2P slow down the release of new content? Is that why there has been so little since the summer?

ZOS_Sage
Anything we add to the game does cost dev time, so the answer is "yes." That said, 1.6 has a huge number of changes, and all of those changes, Champion, Balance Changes and Justice had far more to do with it than our Crown Store. This is a big update!

Classic.

Saying something you know will have a backlash, then quickly changing the subject and hoping no one would realize what he said.

The reason we were not getting much content? Development resources going into Cash Shop (and withholding content like Imperial City for DLC), while the subscribers naively kept the cash rolling in.

Disgusting.
Utterly disgusting, and should be illegal, because it feels like getting scammed.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Dislike - other

DDuke wrote: »

jpatek0501ub17_ESO wrote: »

Somnariffic:Did the fact that you were going B2P slow down the release of new content? Is that why there has been so little since the summer?

ZOS_Sage
Anything we add to the game does cost dev time, so the answer is "yes." That said, 1.6 has a huge number of changes, and all of those changes, Champion, Balance Changes and Justice had far more to do with it than our Crown Store. This is a big update!

Classic.

Saying something you know will have a backlash, then quickly changing the subject and hoping no one would realize what he said.

The reason we were not getting much content? Development resources going into Cash Shop (and withholding content like Imperial City for DLC), while the subscribers naively kept the cash rolling in.

Disgusting.
Utterly disgusting, and should be illegal, because it feels like getting scammed.

actually from what i have heard regarding 1.6, its a HUGE change, probably most of it will be "invisible" to the player. >>BUT<<, think of it this way.... if you are out to build an entire metropolis, you have 1000 civil engineers, do you really think its a good idea to take 1% or even just a handful of those civil engineers to build and design the mayor's house at the same time?

inflaburwb17_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

I wonder how much this nonsense change was influence by GW2's expansion...

grimsfield

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Pretty funny. They say they're listening to the players, but so far 70% of nearly 1000 players say they aren't listening.

JamilaRaj

Dislike - other

NeHoMaR wrote: »

I just got the game, and the ONLY reason was the B2P model. I avoid subscriptions games, because I am casual player type.

I think players are overreacting to this, like if the game is going to full F2P, full of "disgusting people", but not, is B2P, you must pay to play, that's a considerable filter.

The most disgusting people are in fact those that will readily open wallet every time they'll run into some obstacle, be it PvE element or another player.
And the game of course is going full, let's face it, P2W. ZOS has not put effort into cash shop/DLC and is not going through this backlash to gain same or less money. They'll want more money and money won't come from non paying players. So they'll have to focus on above mentioned type of players and make them pay.
As casual/not paying player, you are going to be something like NPCs, peice of enviroment in paying players' theme park and also something they can compare with and see their purchased advantage has meaning, because 10% XP bonus in enviroment where everyone has 10% XP bonus really would not have a whole lot of meaning.

miahq

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

P2P is all about keeping subs happy, and it requires far more thinking about what people really want and listening to them.

B2P the big question becomes what are people willing to pay for. And for a sizable minority that's convenience and fluff. That means gold, raw materials, soul gems, fast travel, dye or new item skins, mounts, etc. and that already makes it less fun even without going full on p2w. Because how fast you get to the top, and how fast you get the best items really depends more on how much cash you've got to throw around. Every guild is basically going to end up with at least one whale who just throws cash around, and if you don't do the same then you're already at a disadvantage.

When your main source of revenue becomes selling people crap through cash shops, it's not hard to see how that becomes the center of your entire game.

eisberg

Like - may draw in more population due to lack of monthly fees

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

eisberg wrote: »

Forum polls are really meaningless, there is nothing scientific about them to be considered as accurate information. The best forums can do is make developers aware of issues for them to look into, but that doesn't mean it would sway any decision. Sure 69% of the people who clicked on that poll dislike, but for all we know 90% of the people who bought this game like this change.

they say "we listen to the players" coughbullchipscough, by your logic that makes polls and forum topics worthless? note that down if you ever have a complaint that might be fixable.

i can give you one concrete fact, 100% of the players that are paying and playing now are willing to pay monthly.

Nope, you got my logic completely wrong. You make a post about a problem you see in the game, others might chime in and say they saw the same problem, ZOS isn't aware of any potential problem, now they are and they look into it, and determine if there is a problem and how/when to fix it. They listened to the forum posts. Where there is smoke, there is fire. But to say that some forum poll shows what the community wants and that they should abide by the wishes of some forum poll, that is unreasonable. They certainly can take the feelings into consideration, listen to the concern. Listening does not mean they have to fulfill your wishes.

Also, your concrete fact is incorrect. Myself and others who have said the same thing on this forum have recently bought the game after seeing the news, but I am not willing to pay a sub for this game and neither were they. I won't be subbing after my first 30 days, and will wait about 3 weeks to play again when my sub ends. So no, it is not 100%.

Granted it is near 100%, but apparently those willing were not enough.

Zed

Dislike - other

grimsfield wrote: »

Pretty funny. They say they're listening to the players, but so far 70% of nearly 1000 players say they aren't listening.

The fact that there are people willing to pay far more money for far less content means that our opinions don't matter much. Why work hard to please subs when you can work half as hard and make the same amount of money.

eisberg

Like - may draw in more population due to lack of monthly fees

Zed wrote: »

grimsfield wrote: »

Pretty funny. They say they're listening to the players, but so far 70% of nearly 1000 players say they aren't listening.

The fact that there are people willing to pay far more money for far less content means that our opinions don't matter much. Why work hard to please subs when you can work half as hard and make the same amount of money.

Average amount spent by people who do spend money on Free 2 Play MMOs in the US/EU is ~$50 a year, with only 5% of the people who do pay can be considered as whales. What is the average amount a subscriber pays a year? $180.

But you are right, people are willing to pay more for less content, and that just so happens to be the people who want subscription only in this game =D

togmb16_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

eisberg wrote: »

Average amount spent by people who do spend money on Free 2 Play MMOs in the US/EU is ~$50 a year, with only 5% of the people who do pay can be considered as whales. What is the average amount a subscriber pays a year? $180.

But you are right, people are willing to pay more for less content, and that just so happens to be the people who want subscription only in this game =D

Sorry, but what's your point here again?

As already pointed out by other players, you will gain more game as a player with a subscription, simply because the developer has to justify the sub cost and keep players in the game/sub. I wouldn't be so sure you will get your $50 years worth. It should be, you get what you paid for, but we all know it never really works in most games. It's only, you get what you get...

Are you telling me you're making fun of me, because you will get something I have paid for for less?

I'm quite shocked. Is that what we are now for you, the stupid past subbers who get laughed out of the game?

LuxLunae

Like - may draw in more population due to lack of monthly fees

I love the change!!

Quit being worry warts. They are not going to make a paywall. I am currently waiting for steam to sell the game's unlimited imperial edition for $59.99 come this march.

Note that I have not yet bought the game nor played it at launch due to the fact of the SUBSCRIPTION PAY WALL !!!! now that that paywall is gone, I can get into the game.

Also by removing that subscription, they have actual TIME to put real content up where they sit down and think without the subscription requirement being pitchforks up their butt crying about the next update not justifying their sub bor something

Have any questions for a person who has an OUTSIDE VIEW of the situation? and what I think? tell me.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Dislike - other

eisberg wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

eisberg wrote: »

Forum polls are really meaningless, there is nothing scientific about them to be considered as accurate information. The best forums can do is make developers aware of issues for them to look into, but that doesn't mean it would sway any decision. Sure 69% of the people who clicked on that poll dislike, but for all we know 90% of the people who bought this game like this change.

they say "we listen to the players" coughbullchipscough, by your logic that makes polls and forum topics worthless? note that down if you ever have a complaint that might be fixable.

i can give you one concrete fact, 100% of the players that are paying and playing now are willing to pay monthly.

Nope, you got my logic completely wrong. You make a post about a problem you see in the game, others might chime in and say they saw the same problem, ZOS isn't aware of any potential problem, now they are and they look into it, and determine if there is a problem and how/when to fix it. They listened to the forum posts. Where there is smoke, there is fire. But to say that some forum poll shows what the community wants and that they should abide by the wishes of some forum poll, that is unreasonable. They certainly can take the feelings into consideration, listen to the concern. Listening does not mean they have to fulfill your wishes.

Also, your concrete fact is incorrect. Myself and others who have said the same thing on this forum have recently bought the game after seeing the news, but I am not willing to pay a sub for this game and neither were they. I won't be subbing after my first 30 days, and will wait about 3 weeks to play again when my sub ends. So no, it is not 100%.

Granted it is near 100%, but apparently those willing were not enough.

your "logic" is lacking in intelligent fact. they out right said they listen to the players (that's forums are for). now if a player chooses not to take the time/energy/interest in the forums and the polls, then their choice is neutrality. if they are neutral they don't care, there for they don't have an opinion to voice. not saying something IS saying something. now that isn't to be a put-down, you don't always have to voice nor have an opinion about something.

my concrete fact, is in fact, still a fact. just because people like you are now coming into the fold, doesn't negate the reality that 100% of the population that had been paying the subscription were by default willing to pay the sub. you can't come into a room with an established lifestyle and say that you are the now the rule and not the exception, just because you came into the room.

also, if you don't like that only ~1000 votes, feeling it isn't an accurate depiction of the mass opinion (which i will generally agree with), then you better stop looking at all polls. a typical poll consists of 2,500 individuals only (which is why i wouldn't add credence to many polls). what i would say is applicable, is the vast disparity between likes and dislikes. this isn't even a in the realm of a tie or close call, its more than most would consider a "super majority" and that should be the most telling, with regard to this poll.

BCBasher

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Just canceled, 6 days of play time left might or might not check my hireling mail this week. No interest in paying for another three months of bait and switch. I'll try this awesome "new" b2p +premium game that I unknowingly paid to develop. *** you ZOS and the guar you rode in on.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

@LuxLunae‌
You're getting this wrong.
The subscription is what allows them to relax and work on quality. By hyping up changes and then releasing content that was worth the wait, people will be satisfied and remain subbed to sponsor the next advertised change.

However, in a f2p model where DLC content is a good part of the company's income, there is pressure to release content at a high frequency.
If they release nothing to take their time on quality, they earn nothing in the meantime.
So they are under pressure to release "something" as often as possible and that doesn't bode well for the quality, nor the devs sanity.

LuxLunae

Like - may draw in more population due to lack of monthly fees

@frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

I understand some of you all concerns, it could be a success or a failure. Lets just see how the test goes and then comment on what happens in the summer.

I like the 10% exp thing. I am thinking about 1 to 3 month subs every summer. Then 1-2 subs in the winter. During the college semester I pop in an out on my spare time playing the game slowly advancing placing the chess pieces where they need to be. So that when summer or winter comes, I play long days to get to a certain satisfiable goal.

If they didn't have this flexible model, they would not be able to get my money. Why would I pay $15 a month if I can only get in 2 hrs per day in for a total of 60 hrs in a month.

I see it as beneficial model. However, I won't deny I might come back here in the summer crying about how the system has failed.

This semester I have crap load of classes so even though it will become B2P, I don't expect to put in much hours (maybe on spring break).. next year (my final year in college) I will only have 2 in the Fall an 2 in the Spring. Since I left the easy ones last, it should be smooth sailing. Meaning I might be able to sub for more than 5 months as I also won't have to worry about feeding myself having a job that pays 55-60K off the bat.

So the truth is, I would have been able to afford the sub sooner or later, but ESO would have not been able to get any of that money until fall of 2016.

Change can feel weird to most but it should at least be tried instead of just rejecting it all together.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

@LuxLunae‌
I don't deny it, this is a great model for people that do not have time nor money to commit to video games. It's just bad for the company and everyone else involved.

However, if you see 60h a month as a bad deal for only $15, I don't know what to tell you.
Where I live, $15 is what I pay to get to see a 2h movie in theaters. Or it is the premium I would pay if I went to the restaurant instead of cooking at home.
In short, it is barely the price of a couple hours of pleasure. Even if I were to play 5h in a month, it would still be worth it to pay $15.
But I guess some countries don't have such high living prices, so $15 isn't such a good deal for them.

And about trying it, the issue here is that we already tried it. We've been trying it for at least 8 years now. If it were possible for this model to work, we would know by now. It's realistic to expect ESO to fail like the many before.
Some were bigger, some were better, some were luckier, and all failed.
ZOS won't be "the chosen ones" that will make this model work.

Morshire

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

I am disappointed with the change. As others have said, $15 a month....hahaha, I spend that everyday eating food at work and a coffee. The saddest thing of all, I will probably (waiting at least for a bit) go and spend that money on some other game. If I do, it will be mainly because ZOS stopped "requiring" me to spend it here. That $15 is a commitment. I feel I have to play to get my monies worth (or my wife gets mad). I enjoyed the game, not what I am saying. But it is kind of like when I buy groceries, even if they suck, I rarely throw them out. Even if this game was a bomb, I would still play it because I paid. But since I won't have to....
This is really starting to feel like a break up. Don't do it ZOS, I thought we had something.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

It is a breakup. ZOS cheated on us and told us she wants to see other people. But you know, we asked for this as well and she did it for our own good.

StaticWax

When i heard the news, I literally crapped my pants. Not because ESO is going B2P, it just happened to be a strange coincidence that they both happened at the same time; the crapping of the pants as well as the B2P news.

It was a weird day.

Morshire

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Yep, so much for exclusiveness in this relationship. I guess what is good for the goose is good for the gander. So I should start seeing other games you say?