Feedback to the Champion System

Enodoc

Kragorn wrote: »

ZOS created a rod for their own backs when they promised people's XP would be tracked and gave the clear impression that all XP gained would translated into CP, some months later and without any hint given to the players who took them at their word, they came here and announced they weren't going to fulfill that promise.

That's not true, regardless of the fact they changed their plans, they always said there would be a cap on the amount of CPs that could be awarded. It just ended up being quite a bit lower than we wanted.

Kragorn

Enodoc wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

ZOS created a rod for their own backs when they promised people's XP would be tracked and gave the clear impression that all XP gained would translated into CP, some months later and without any hint given to the players who took them at their word, they came here and announced they weren't going to fulfill that promise.

That's not true, regardless of the fact they changed their plans, they always said there would be a cap on the amount of CPs that could be awarded. It just ended up being quite a bit lower than we wanted.

Well actually, they said something significantly different from "a bit lower than we wanted":

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1303290/#Comment_1303290

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

(emphasis mine)

So yes, they said there'd be a cap but the bit I bolded clearly shows ZOS were telling people that the cap wasn't likely to affect them, so 'all' their XP would be rewarded.

"Most people won't reach the cap" in reality is now "most people have reached the cap" , where 'most people' are those this section of this post was encouraging to carry on playing .. that's the misleading comment which those caught by this U-turn rightly were incensed about.

Enodoc

Kragorn wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Kragorn wrote: »

ZOS created a rod for their own backs when they promised people's XP would be tracked and gave the clear impression that all XP gained would translated into CP, some months later and without any hint given to the players who took them at their word, they came here and announced they weren't going to fulfill that promise.

That's not true, regardless of the fact they changed their plans, they always said there would be a cap on the amount of CPs that could be awarded. It just ended up being quite a bit lower than we wanted.

Well actually, they said something significantly different from "a bit lower than we wanted":

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1303290/#Comment_1303290

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

(emphasis mine)

So yes, they said there'd be a cap but the bit I bolded clearly shows ZOS were telling people that the cap wasn't likely to affect them, so 'all' their XP would be rewarded.

"Most people won't reach the cap" in reality is now "most people have reached the cap" , where 'most people' are those this section of this post was encouraging to carry on playing .. that's the misleading comment which those caught by this U-turn rightly were incensed about.

Yes, but that was primarily due to the decision to chop the whole Champion System by a factor of 4, meaning that the cap would also be 1/4 of the size they had planned for when they first said that. With a cap 1/4 of the size it used to be, many more people would hit it.

Grileenor

Kama_Son_Of_Dharma wrote: »

Hmmmm, a question about this change.

If one player got 3 VR14 Chars He will only get 70 CP

Another player got 1 vr2, 1 vr5 and 1 vr7
So (vr2*5=10) + (vr5*5=25) + (vr7*5=35) = 70 CP

Is this correct?

No it is not. VR2 gets 5, VR5 gets 20 ad VR7 gets 30 points, so 55 in total. VR1 gets nothing, only those xp after reaching VR1 are rewarded at 200k each. So VR2 (VR1 + 1.000.000 xp) equals 5 points.

Kama_Son_Of_Dharma

Grileenor wrote: »

Kama_Son_Of_Dharma wrote: »

Hmmmm, a question about this change.

If one player got 3 VR14 Chars He will only get 70 CP

Another player got 1 vr2, 1 vr5 and 1 vr7
So (vr2*5=10) + (vr5*5=25) + (vr7*5=35) = 70 CP

Is this correct?

No it is not. VR2 gets 5, VR5 gets 20 ad VR7 gets 30 points, so 55 in total. VR1 gets nothing, only those xp after reaching VR1 are rewarded at 200k each. So VR2 (VR1 + 1.000.000 xp) equals 5 points.

Thanks for that clarify

Still think that it would be based on the highest char.
And to get max cap is to have a char at vr14.
So if you have one VR2, VR5 and VR7 you get the CP based on the VR7.
To me it sounds more fair.

Grileenor

Kama_Son_Of_Dharma wrote: »

Thanks for that clarify

Still think that it would be based on the highest char.
And to get max cap is to have a char at vr14.
So if you have one VR2, VR5 and VR7 you get the CP based on the VR7.
To me it sounds more fair.

Let's look at the numbers.
The VR14 char has played 3 factions, coldharbor and craglorn equals 17 zones.
The VR2 has played ~ 7 zones, VR5 ~ 10 zones and VR7 about 12 zones. That amounts to about 29 zones of quests.

Not convinced? Take the grinding path.
VR14 = 50 levels of play plus at least 14 mio xp (to get all the 70 points)
The VR2 + VR5 + VR7 chars need about 11 mio xp but three times 50 levels of play, which is a lot of grinding as well.

For me it sounds more than fair, if the player of the three vet chars gets about the same amount of cp

Deth

Grileenor wrote: »

Kama_Son_Of_Dharma wrote: »

Thanks for that clarify

Still think that it would be based on the highest char.
And to get max cap is to have a char at vr14.
So if you have one VR2, VR5 and VR7 you get the CP based on the VR7.
To me it sounds more fair.

Let's look at the numbers.
The VR14 char has played 3 factions, coldharbor and craglorn equals 17 zones.
The VR2 has played ~ 7 zones, VR5 ~ 10 zones and VR7 about 12 zones. That amounts to about 29 zones of quests.

Not convinced? Take the grinding path.
VR14 = 50 levels of play plus at least 14 mio xp (to get all the 70 points)
The VR2 + VR5 + VR7 chars need about 11 mio xp but three times 50 levels of play, which is a lot of grinding as well.

For me it sounds more than fair, if the player of the three vet chars gets about the same amount of cp

OK. I was just informed on game by someone who has been playing on the PTS , who is INSISTING that , despite what seems to be clear evidence that Grileenor's explanation of how it is going to be, is correct. That In fact Kama's view on it is how it is actually going to happen.

My example is as follows. I have , because of how this seemd and still seems like it is going to work (agreeing with the math in spades, that its totally fair to have it purely based off of 14 mil xp , not forcing it on one max character being 14, as some of us like alt leveling for variety) So here is my dilemma , or lack there of perhaps. I have (or soon will) have 3 vet 5 characters. Character A has 800k xp gained so far towards vet 6. Characters B, and C have 600k xp earned towards vet 6..

So thats 4 levels (20 points) for each , flat/fresh vet 5 times 3. So 60 points by having just 3 vet 5's. Factor in the 4 points from 800k, and 3 points from 600k, and 3 points for 600k again. Thats full 70 points. Ive been working on this for weeks. Someone , mentioned above, on game in insisting its the other way around. That the only points i will recieve are from my highest character upon 1.6 going live, and says I need to load the pts to find out for sure, but seems very very confident that I'm wrong and he is correct. How is this thing actually going to freakin work?? lol I specifically leveled my characters this way to leave quests available for them for 1.6 live. If I'm now only to recieve credit for Character A (vet 5 with 800k more) Thats only 24 points, and I'd be rather disapointed, in agreement that given common sence, dictated by the math Grileenor is putting forth, that I'd been mislead, and could have a full vet 14 had that been made clear it was required.

I've scanned the whole thread and cant find any real evidence to support what he claims , except Kama here saying it would be more fair. I'm still quite nurvous I'm missing something,and want to get working on leveling my Character A to vet 14 If that is what required of me. However begrudgingly. Again it seems obvious that things stated on the first page here clearly state that he is wrong, and that between my characters A, B and C I will have all 70 champion points. Someone please. Beyond a shadow of a doubt. Confirm that I have not absolutely wasted my time on these other vet characters, Of which I did have to get them all to 50. Was even going to spread it to a fourth vet character, but got nervous and pressed for time so cut it to 3 as the last is still lvl 30.

Im downloading the pts, but ive never even tried one before, Dont know if i can , or have my characters copied there, or what so Id much rather not have to go through all that. Looks like it will take overnight to finish anyways.

HyperToxic

Ok I'm starting to like the fact that Spell Power pots don't stack with Inner Light and Structured Entropy / Critical Surge. I find that in testing I can use more abilities on my bar when dpsing on my sorc when using pots on cooldown. I really like the fact that the effects on pots are longer than the cooldown. This really starts to open up the play style options.

It was really fun having 4 damage over time abilities active as a sorc.
(Flame Reach, Soul Splitting Trap, Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm)

Lightning Flood still needs some work though. I really feal that it should be greater than or equal to the damage output of Elemental Ring.

And its really sad that sorcs don't have an instant cast spamable ability that does high damage like (DK Lava Whip or NB Funnel Health)

DanielMaxwell

Deth wrote: »

Grileenor wrote: »

Kama_Son_Of_Dharma wrote: »

Thanks for that clarify

Still think that it would be based on the highest char.
And to get max cap is to have a char at vr14.
So if you have one VR2, VR5 and VR7 you get the CP based on the VR7.
To me it sounds more fair.

Let's look at the numbers.
The VR14 char has played 3 factions, coldharbor and craglorn equals 17 zones.
The VR2 has played ~ 7 zones, VR5 ~ 10 zones and VR7 about 12 zones. That amounts to about 29 zones of quests.

Not convinced? Take the grinding path.
VR14 = 50 levels of play plus at least 14 mio xp (to get all the 70 points)
The VR2 + VR5 + VR7 chars need about 11 mio xp but three times 50 levels of play, which is a lot of grinding as well.

For me it sounds more than fair, if the player of the three vet chars gets about the same amount of cp

OK. I was just informed on game by someone who has been playing on the PTS , who is INSISTING that , despite what seems to be clear evidence that Grileenor's explanation of how it is going to be, is correct. That In fact Kama's view on it is how it is actually going to happen.

My example is as follows. I have , because of how this seemd and still seems like it is going to work (agreeing with the math in spades, that its totally fair to have it purely based off of 14 mil xp , not forcing it on one max character being 14, as some of us like alt leveling for variety) So here is my dilemma , or lack there of perhaps. I have (or soon will) have 3 vet 5 characters. Character A has 800k xp gained so far towards vet 6. Characters B, and C have 600k xp earned towards vet 6..

So thats 4 levels (20 points) for each , flat/fresh vet 5 times 3. So 60 points by having just 3 vet 5's. Factor in the 4 points from 800k, and 3 points from 600k, and 3 points for 600k again. Thats full 70 points. Ive been working on this for weeks. Someone , mentioned above, on game in insisting its the other way around. That the only points i will recieve are from my highest character upon 1.6 going live, and says I need to load the pts to find out for sure, but seems very very confident that I'm wrong and he is correct. How is this thing actually going to freakin work?? lol I specifically leveled my characters this way to leave quests available for them for 1.6 live. If I'm now only to recieve credit for Character A (vet 5 with 800k more) Thats only 24 points, and I'd be rather disapointed, in agreement that given common sence, dictated by the math Grileenor is putting forth, that I'd been mislead, and could have a full vet 14 had that been made clear it was required.

I've scanned the whole thread and cant find any real evidence to support what he claims , except Kama here saying it would be more fair. I'm still quite nurvous I'm missing something,and want to get working on leveling my Character A to vet 14 If that is what required of me. However begrudgingly. Again it seems obvious that things stated on the first page here clearly state that he is wrong, and that between my characters A, B and C I will have all 70 champion points. Someone please. Beyond a shadow of a doubt. Confirm that I have not absolutely wasted my time on these other vet characters, Of which I did have to get them all to 50. Was even going to spread it to a fourth vet character, but got nervous and pressed for time so cut it to 3 as the last is still lvl 30.

Im downloading the pts, but ive never even tried one before, Dont know if i can , or have my characters copied there, or what so Id much rather not have to go through all that. Looks like it will take overnight to finish anyways.

the XP -CP conversion is capped at 14 million xp equals 70 CP , the conversion rate is 200k XP to one CP .

Your XP gain across all VR1 and up characters counts towards the cap , so long as each one has at least 200k XP .

You have to log into each one of your VR characters to get the CPs that each one has earned , up to the cap of 14 million XP / 70 CP .

Hope that helps you.

Morshire

@‌Deth - You are right in your assessment. Below I highlighted some of the official statement from the beginning of this thread. It clearly shows that the CP is given based on the combined total of XP over VR1 of all characters, not based off of just one. Hope it helps.

EDIT: It does also say up to 70CP max.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone,

It’s normal in development to change how a system is going to be implemented from its original design. When we talk about designs early, we do so in order to get feedback and give you some insight to the direction we're taking. However, it's likely there may be changes along the way as we perform tests internally. Still, there is value in putting information out early.

Late last month, we announced changes to our original design for the Champion System, and provided a fairly thorough explanation as to why we decided to do this. Of specific concern was the conversion system of XP to Champion Points. What we had decided was if you had at least one Veteran Rank character, you would get a total of 30 Champion Points for your account. The Veteran Rank wouldn’t matter; all players with at least one Veteran character would get the same amount of Champion Points. We received a lot of feedback about these changes. Most of it centered around the concern that higher ranked Veteran characters were losing progress in the Champion System because they would have less opportunity to earn Champion Points, having already done a substantial amount of content.

Based off this feedback, we will be altering the conversion system with the following design:

• Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
  • Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank. This is based on a fraction of the total XP contained within the level. One Veteran Rank is currently 1,000,000XP, so the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.
  • For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.
    • EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: Only the conversion system will use 200,000XP for one Champion Point the day the system goes live in Update 6. This is not what it will take to earn a Champion Point while playing normally once the Champion System is live.
  • It is possible that a Veteran Rank 1 character may not have earned 200,000XP into Veteran Rank 1. In this case, you will not receive a Champion Point after the system goes live.
• Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.
• A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.
• If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).
  
• Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to claim points from the conversion pool. Once they are claimed, they will move into an account-wide Champion pool that all characters can use. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.
• The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.
  • For example, if you have just one fresh VR4 character in your account, you’ll receive 15 Champion Points from the conversion after you log in. You will never be able to use the remaining 55 Points since it only applies to pre-existing characters prior to Update 6.

We know this may be confusing at first glance so to make sure everyone understands, we’d like to provide a few additional examples:

1. You have one full VR14 character and one VR6 character that hasn’t earned any XP when the system goes live. You log in with the VR14 first and are granted 70 Champion Points from the conversion. You log in later with your VR6, and are able to use 70 Champion Points due to them being account wide.
2. You have just one VR5 character with 400,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank. When you log in, you are granted 22 Champion Points from the conversion. After you spend your points, you immediately create a new character. That character does not get any Champion Points from the conversion, but can use the 22 Champion Points from the account pool.
   
3. Here’s a complicated one: You have one fresh VR14, one VR6 with 800,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank, one new VR3 character, and one level 25 character. You log in with the VR6 first and receive 29 Champion Points from the conversion. Then you log in with your VR3 and receive 10 Champion Points from the conversion; you now have 39 points in your account to use. You log in with your level 25 and don’t receive any new points from the conversion, but are able to use the 39 points from the account. Finally, you log in with your VR14 and are granted 31 additional Champion Points from the conversion, since you can only receive a total of 70 Champion Points from the conversion.
   
4. You have one full VR14 character and one new VR4 character. You log in with your VR4 and receive 15 Champion Points. You begin to quest and play for a while, and receive 3 more Champion Points throughout your session. Later, you log in with your VR14. You receive 55 Points from the conversion, and are able to use 73 Champion Points – 70 from the total conversion, and 3 from the earlier play session. You play with this character for a while, and receive 2 more Champion Points from normal play. You now have 75 Champion Points in your account. Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately.

Once again, we’d like to thank everyone for your feedback. We believe the system outlined above still meets our goals for the initial rollout of the Champion System while also addressing some of the more pressing concerns.

Edit: Adjusted the wording of one bullet point for clarity.

Beleron

It rewards you for grinding. Its a system to sink you time into, to grind out CP. Yay... as if leveling to v14 didn't start to feel kinda dry after a while.

Kaizxen

What is being done to mitigate the eventual power gap between veteran and new players at endgame?

Current, consistent players may not ever see much of a problem, assuming relatively equal CP gains across the board. However, if ZOS wants ESO's PvP to be appealing to new players, they need to make sure there isn't ever an insurmountable gap in character power.

It could also potentially be a huge problem for future PvE content. How will ZOS balance new endgame PvE content difficulty? Balanced around a new player hitting 50 for the first time? Around a player with 1800 CP? 3600 CP? The proposed method of scaling characters to the content seemed like a reasonable compromise until I realized that if that scaling system includes reducing stats of veteran players, then the statistical portion of CP progression is meaningless for any new PvE content.

ghengis_dhan

I downloaded the PTS Friday night, and played it over the rest of the weekend. I really like the new Champion system. I much prefer things that permanently boost my characters' abilities without having to acquire new gear. Granted, I will likely need to craft a new set of gear because of all the other changes, but that is for another thread.

Have you finalized the methods that will grant us new CP after the conversion is done on the live server? If it is already posted somewhere, I must have missed it.

Vivecc

I haven´t read thru all of this thread, first Impression was " hey it sounds fair" but....
As the Conversion into CP is Account - and there´s a max of 70 CP given out, everyone with more than one high VR char will be at a loss i think.
Example: If i have one VR14 on my account, i receive the 70 CP to spend on this one or any other i create after. Fine.
But if i have say, a VR 14 and a VR 10 and a VR 3 , i will get still 70 CP, but i have to divide it between the three makes in the end less Points for me, than anyone who just plays into VR after the conversion.
Do i see this correct??

Enodoc

Vivecc wrote: »

I haven´t read thru all of this thread, first Impression was " hey it sounds fair" but....
As the Conversion into CP is Account - and there´s a max of 70 CP given out, everyone with more than one high VR char will be at a loss i think.
Example: If i have one VR14 on my account, i receive the 70 CP to spend on this one or any other i create after. Fine.
But if i have say, a VR 14 and a VR 10 and a VR 3 , i will get still 70 CP, but i have to divide it between the three makes in the end less Points for me, than anyone who just plays into VR after the conversion.
Do i see this correct??

You will get 70 CPs into your account pool, and can then spend those 70 CPs on each character separately. 70 for your VR 14, 70 for your VR 10, and 70 for your VR 3.

HyperToxic

Spell Damage and Weapon Damage sourced from gear is gravely out of balance with Spell Critical and Weapon Critical sourced from gear. This is due to the removal of soft caps.

You can now virtually double your spell damage / weapon damage.
Yet you can only source a few percent of critical from gear. Additionally the crit percentage from Soulshine and Wrath of Imperium and been significantly reduced to the point where it is now useless (these sets were never great anyway, but nothing else existed.).

A v14 Legendary Staff gives 1155 Spell Damage.
4x Martial Knowledge + 2 Cyrodill's Light + 2 Adroitness + 2 Torug's Pact gives 5x 177 Spell Damage as set bonus for a total of 885. Add 3x 48 spell damage glyphs and you get additional 999 spell damage, for a total of 2154.

This effect virtual eliminates the desire to collect and use Aether, Infallable Aether, Burning Spellweave. IMHO this needs fixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno I would like to understand if this is going to be addressed.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Don't let the naysayers naysay you ZoS champ and especially JUSTICE are brilliant moves and show real imagination and inovation in the MMORPG genre. Don't back down and instead forge ahead.

To solidify the justice system though you will want to make sure you include.

1) PvP flagging criminals.
2) Shunning vampires and WW's by citie town folk.
3) Bounties that players can fullfill on other players.

Champ system will need some tweeking to prevent stacking unkillable and one shot builds, just find out who is exploiting them and change them quickly, you will lose a ton of noobs like you did before when you allowed ppl to exploit impulse/batswarm for way to long.

Vivecc

that is really awesome, thanks a lot for that info:)

SnowmanDK

If I understand it right then I am NOT supposed to be able to move stolen items into my bank.
If so, then I guess there is a function that makes it possible to bypass it.
My Bank Manager Revived can move stolen items (unintentionally) without any code changes.
See this:

wrathofrraath

Beside the mysterious and frustrating enlightenment bug, I am really enjoying this patch

Shadesofkin

There is nothing wrong with the Champion System as a general rule (salute), ignore any and all cries about it.

Seriously, I've enjoyed earning CP so far and I'm halfway done with Rivenspire. Good times.

ghengis_dhan

HyperToxic wrote: »

Spell Damage and Weapon Damage sourced from gear is gravely out of balance with Spell Critical and Weapon Critical sourced from gear. This is due to the removal of soft caps.

You can now virtually double your spell damage / weapon damage.
Yet you can only source a few percent of critical from gear. Additionally the crit percentage from Soulshine and Wrath of Imperium and been significantly reduced to the point where it is now useless (these sets were never great anyway, but nothing else existed.).

A v14 Legendary Staff gives 1155 Spell Damage.
4x Martial Knowledge + 2 Cyrodill's Light + 2 Adroitness + 2 Torug's Pact gives 5x 177 Spell Damage as set bonus for a total of 885. Add 3x 48 spell damage glyphs and you get additional 999 spell damage, for a total of 2154.

This effect virtual eliminates the desire to collect and use Aether, Infallable Aether, Burning Spellweave. IMHO this needs fixed.

I take it you use the new VR10 purple drinks to get your sustain with this build. Otherwise, what point is there to hitting like a truck if you are out of resources before the fight is over.

BTW...I have no use for the Aether, Infallable Aether, or Burning Spellweave sets, not before 1.6 or otherwise.

Nerouyn

Very late to the party but with the sub gone, I've reinstalled the game and finally taken a close look at the champ system. I don't like it.

Personally I liked ESO's basic combat design. With almost no cooldowns, you play the game rather than the game playing you. But now the champ system introduces so many arbitrary procs which subtract from that. For me it's a case where the whole is less than the sum of its parts.

I'm inclined to wait til spellcrafting goes live anyway before giving the game a serious second go but for me the champ system is not value adding.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Nerouyn wrote: »

I'm inclined to wait til spellcrafting goes live anyway before giving the game a serious second go but for me the champ system is not value adding.

In that case we may next be seeing you in 2017 or so, work on Spellcrafting was suspended a long time ago and at present ZOS have no firm plans to pick it up again, they told us that only a few weeks ago.

ArnoTerranova

Please let me add my voice to the others,
This system is close to the perfection, honestly.
Paragon-like system is known but somehow you made it fresh and new, and it adjust beautifully with the player expectations.
Thank you so much !

(now I am eager to see some improvement in the grouping system to push player using it more, and explore the dungeons content! Thank you for your work!).
Best regards to the team,
Koros

exiledtyrant

What I don't understand about the Champion system is why we are allowed to max out each and every star. If this system was supposed to add customization and increase build specialization why are we able to take away all weaknesses instead of some weaknesses? All this really looks to achieve is establish weird meta shifts for pve and pvp. By the end of this month most people who were grandfathered in with an extra 70 CP are probably going to hit their first or second 100 point star.

That means 25% crit reduction + impenentrable gear for crit damage immunity, 25% shielding or healing to offset cyrodil debuffs, 15% cost reduction or 25% regen to completely offset base cost that are already being made useless, 25% additional penetration ( taking spell pen users into the almost 70% penetration range and physical users almost to 60%) or 25% flat damage. Every 3 to 4 months we go into another wild swing as another set of 100 stars pop up.

Soon it won't be grind to VR 14 to do endgame pvp or pve. It will be grind to VR 14 then grind 100 points in the steed so you can balance out the crazy damage amplifications. Grind VR 14 and then grind 25% damage in the mage constellation or your dps won't be accepted for groups. Early on you already have people settling into having a default 22% base crit because of the low 30 point passives. More problems look to arise way before we even have to worry about hitting 3600 CP.

Why can't we just have 120 points max per constellation, or even the ability only to max one section of the Warrior, the Thief, and the Mage? It worries me that these buffs are wiping out to much of what keeps builds unique and balanced.

ArRashid

I'd just like to say that Champion points are TOO SLOW to get unless you grind at max level.

I've been leveling a few of my alts (1-35) and in several weeks I only got 3 points. Which makes my total about 9/9/8 right now.


I thought the progress would be more of a logarithm line (faster gain at the start, gradually lesser gain the more points you already have) instead of this which feel like totally constant, very slow gain... I've been seriously misled by videos on youtube claiming that players will be starting at about 120 points of each color... only to log in to 8/8/7... oh well.

WillhelmBlack

At release of the Champion System I thought ooh I can tailor my builds and make them a bit interesting like Skyrim, nice. Then I realised everybody is putting the same points into the same things depending on whether they're stamina or magicka (can't have both!). Few weeks after, thought to myself "bit of a grind this". Now we have XP boosters it all makes sense. It was designed to make money, cheaply and easily. Far cheaper than developing DLC.

If you decide to keep this Champion System, please could you remove it from PvP? I don't get chance to grind I only like the fun parts of the game which are Dungeons and PvP.

Overall, I hate it. Not essential to have fun. Please put some great passives into exciting new skill lines via DLC, which I would happily buy 10 times over if I could.

Thanks for reading.

BigInGlenumbra

exiledtyrant wrote: »

What I don't understand about the Champion system is why we are allowed to max out each and every star. If this system was supposed to add customization and increase build specialization why are we able to take away all weaknesses instead of some weaknesses? All this really looks to achieve is establish weird meta shifts for pve and pvp. By the end of this month most people who were grandfathered in with an extra 70 CP are probably going to hit their first or second 100 point star.

That means 25% crit reduction + impenentrable gear for crit damage immunity, 25% shielding or healing to offset cyrodil debuffs, 15% cost reduction or 25% regen to completely offset base cost that are already being made useless, 25% additional penetration ( taking spell pen users into the almost 70% penetration range and physical users almost to 60%) or 25% flat damage. Every 3 to 4 months we go into another wild swing as another set of 100 stars pop up.

Soon it won't be grind to VR 14 to do endgame pvp or pve. It will be grind to VR 14 then grind 100 points in the steed so you can balance out the crazy damage amplifications. Grind VR 14 and then grind 25% damage in the mage constellation or your dps won't be accepted for groups. Early on you already have people settling into having a default 22% base crit because of the low 30 point passives. More problems look to arise way before we even have to worry about hitting 3600 CP.

Why can't we just have 120 points max per constellation, or even the ability only to max one section of the Warrior, the Thief, and the Mage? It worries me that these buffs are wiping out to much of what keeps builds unique and balanced.

Good point. I don't think they thought this through, they just needed a system where those hardcore players can stay.

Rewarding people for time invested is a good thing, but there has to be a compromise as a big imbalance will turn of casual/new players. And this is especially a bad thing for the health of the game as the majority of people are casual players- players who will not grind enough to be competitive in PvP or PvE leaderboards. In this case appeasing the hardcore minority is not a rational business move since it harms the majority.

There should also be compromises in the CP system itself due to the flaw you pointed out yourself. There being the theoretical possibility of completing all champion trees is not only a bad thing when it comes to balance and deterring players like I mentioned previously, but it removes build diversity among players, diversity in which is necessary to keep things interesting.

I don't know how they will fix it, or if they will at all, but they have to nerf the CP system in some way. I think nerfing through significantly lowering the cap to 300 is good enough, but might still deter an unnecessary chunk of players.

BigInGlenumbra

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

At release of the Champion System I thought ooh I can tailor my builds and make them a bit interesting like Skyrim, nice. Then I realised everybody is putting the same points into the same things depending on whether they're stamina or magicka (can't have both!). Few weeks after, thought to myself "bit of a grind this". Now we have XP boosters it all makes sense. It was designed to make money, cheaply and easily. Far cheaper than developing DLC.

If you decide to keep this Champion System, please could you remove it from PvP? I don't get chance to grind I only like the fun parts of the game which are Dungeons and PvP.

Overall, I hate it. Not essential to have fun. Please put some great passives into exciting new skill lines via DLC, which I would happily buy 10 times over if I could.

Thanks for reading.

Agreed, grinding is just dumb and boring. Vast majority don't like it, so it shouldn't exist.