State of the Game -- A Former PVP Guild Lead's Commentary

Darlgon

Subtomik wrote: »

I fail to see your complaint about there being more than 1 counter available to each "class defining" ability.

Sorc BE is countered by every gap closer
Templar BOL is countered by every heal debuff including a siege, and every befouled weapon, as well as a myriad of moves.
And currently wings allows heal debuffs to pass through anyway. Not intended I know but they are fixing wings next patch.

Your point about cloak having 2 counters seems pretty silly.

BTW, since you brought it up, I am looking for a counter to Batswarm..

Grim13

Darlgon wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Cool. I have a couple, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

2) Will there be a fix for charged attacks / gap closers knocking NBs out of Cloak? Is this intended? (these also defeat invisibility potions)

I have tested this gap closers DO NOT knock enemies out of cloak. If the gap closer is triggered before cloak, then the KD or snare will be applied, but no damage is dealt.

!?

If a gap closer / charged attack starts before Cloak it absolutely knocks you out of it.

It happens to me and I've done it to other people. Yesterday alone, I witnessed numerous instances where my Ambush, Critical Rush, or Lethal Arrow knocked an enemy NB out of Cloak.

Imo, activating Cloak should break the attack.

Edit: OR if that's too much, than at the very least it should NOT reveal you. The NB takes the damage but is still invisible. Same for an Invis Potion.

If I drop a meatbag on your head, the AoE dot will take you out of cloak too. Are you saying you should stay invis? In order for a charge/gap closer to activate, it needs a target. YOU WERE VISIBLE when it was activated, so you are hit based on that instant.

Thanks Sherlock.

Did you miss the part where I expressly stated that I think I should stay invisible?

Nope. Just hoping your logic flaw was a mistake. Guess it is not.

What logical flaw?

Subtomik

Darlgon wrote: »

BTW, since you brought it up, I am looking for a counter to Batswarm..

Heal debuff, soft CC, Hard CC, aoe that forces the swarmer into in advantageous position when fighting on your terms IE vale, nova, banner, etc.

My personal favorite is destructive reach with a frost staff, but plenty work very, very well.

edit: I should add that I left out the obvious of fighters guild abilities, which I do use on a regular basis.

and I will even give a templar tip, sit in there, refresh blazing shield, and laugh and laugh.

Grim13

Subtomik wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Yes both detect pots and magelight are intended to see through cloak and yes it is ok that one skill is countered by them. Everything in a game should have counters. These are those counters. Magelight in particular is 1 skill slot for 1 skill slot cancelling out. That is the definition really of fairness here.

This question was asked many many months ago and the dev response was that cloak being seen through with pot/magelight was intended (not a bug). Of course I imagine you'll disagree this is fair, but it makes sense IMO.
It's fair when I get a potion to counter Reflective Scales and Bolt Escape... (sarcasm)

There's a difference between countering stealth and countering Cloak.

Magelight countering stealth and Cloak is fine, imo... but that should be the only counter to Cloak... and it's available to everyone already.

Having a potion that counters both stealth and Cloak, and not just stealth like it should (obviously, imo), on top of Magelight is overkill.

---

Anyway, that's beside the point. I'd love to see these questions answered, once and for all, in an official capacity so that all of my NB brethren and I will have something to reference in the future. All in one spot.

I fail to see your complaint about there being more than 1 counter available to each "class defining" ability.

Sorc BE is countered by every gap closer
Templar BOL is countered by every heal debuff including a siege, and every befouled weapon, as well as a myriad of moves.
And currently wings allows heal debuffs to pass through anyway. Not intended I know but they are fixing wings next patch.

Your point about cloak having 2 counters seems pretty silly.

I'm not complaining, I'm disagreeing with it. And, no, it's not silly.

Most of all, I'd just like official clarification. As well as Cloak fixed.

..but you seem determined to continue our mutual animosity toward one another.

k2blader

Speaking for PvP only, re. "LA needs a durability nerf the size of Tamriel, HA needs love in a severe way":

If you mean that light armor needs a nerf for DKs, I agree.

If you are saying a light armor-wearing DK should die as easily as a light-armor wearing sorc, where both have equal DPS potential, I agree.

If you are saying, heavy armor should be a requirement for PvP "tank" DKs that have very high survivability but respectively low damage output and balanced group utility, I agree.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Here are a couple questions and answers. We're working on more that we'll share early next week, and during Friday's ESO Live show.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Please give more clarification if you can on this? It sounds like you want to make it quicker for players to repair walls? It’s already too quick for keeps to go out of attack / repairable and if players can repair for higher values walls will go up within 30s of the breach being made as the group is gathering for the assault.

Our goal is for an undefended keep to take approximately 3-5 minutes to capture, and an undefended keep capture to take a bit longer. The latter can vary quite a bit, of course. Currently, the threshold for being able to repair a wall while it’s under attack is very high (meaning, you can repair a wall that is being damaged if its health is still above 95%.) We are looking at the wall and door health values because it’s a very thin line between feeling like you’re doing actual damage versus beating your head against a wall for too long (no pun intended.) We are, of course, interested in hearing your thoughts.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Did you see the post about reducing the number of campaigns? Remove Haderus, will instantly cause more competition between alliances wanting a buff server, remove a 2nd and you will have 2 full campaigns – perfect

Yes, we have seen the threads about reducing the current number of campaigns. With the present restrictions that prevent you from having characters from multiple alliances on one account assigned to the same campaign, we’re at our minimum for Veteran characters at three campaigns (+1 non vet). There have been discussions about changing that rule, however. If we do change it, reducing the number of campaigns to help increase player density in Cyrodiil would be possible.

Darlgon

Subtomik wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

BTW, since you brought it up, I am looking for a counter to Batswarm..

Heal debuff, soft CC, Hard CC, aoe that forces the swarmer into in advantageous position when fighting on your terms IE vale, nova, banner, etc.

My personal favorite is destructive reach with a frost staff, but plenty work very, very well.

edit: I should add that I left out the obvious of fighters guild abilities, which I do use on a regular basis.

and I will even give a templar tip, sit in there, refresh blazing shield, and laugh and laugh.

Ok.. thanks.. I drop Cinder and Talons, but most of them just seem to laugh at me as my life ebbs.

blistb16_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Don't worry; Update 6 is on its way! When it arrives, items will provide spell resistance and armor, making heavy armor more useful. In addition, soft caps are going away, so heavy armor won't have its effectiveness reduced.

It would be logical for HA to be strong against melee and weak against magicka while LA is strong against magicka and weak against melee. To counter stamina, you use stamina and to counter magicka you use magicka. Currently you need stamina to counter everything.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

In Update 6, we're making magicka-based area-of-effect abilities blockable.

Good. Permablocker will be able to block everything. You're removing a good way to drive out blockers.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

In Update 6, you'll only be able to have one Wall of Fire active at a time. We also reduced the number of particle effects associated with some abilities, focusing on those that had the largest impact on performance.

So this skill will not stack anymore and will be blocked. It obviously needs a change, but you're throwing it into oblivion.


I'm a shield user btw.

Dagoth_Rac

It sounds counter-intuitive, but ... add more campaigns. People love their buff campaigns. Instead of jumping through hoops trying to find ways around that, just accept it. If you add a campaign or two, people will spill over into the new campaigns without threatening anyone's buffs. You will get multiple active campaigns, smaller queues, and better performance.

frozywozy

blistb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Don't worry; Update 6 is on its way! When it arrives, items will provide spell resistance and armor, making heavy armor more useful. In addition, soft caps are going away, so heavy armor won't have its effectiveness reduced.

It would be logical for HA to be strong against melee and weak against magicka while LA is strong against magicka and weak against melee. To counter stamina, you use stamina and to counter magicka you use magicka. Currently you need stamina to counter everything.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

In Update 6, we're making magicka-based area-of-effect abilities blockable.

Good. Permablocker will be able to block everything. You're removing a good way to drive out blockers.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

In Update 6, you'll only be able to have one Wall of Fire active at a time. We also reduced the number of particle effects associated with some abilities, focusing on those that had the largest impact on performance.

So this skill will not stack anymore and will be blocked. It obviously needs a change, but you're throwing it into oblivion.


I'm a shield user btw.

You should need to use magicka abilities to deal more damage to someone wearing HA and using a stamina build. But a HA stamina build should also deal more damage to you if you wear LA.

so.. The damage delt between:
- LA magicka build VS LA magicka build should be pretty low
- HA stamina build VS HA stamina build should be pretty low
- LA magicka build VS HA stamina build should be pretty high

AryaWythers

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

It sounds counter-intuitive, but ... add more campaigns. People love their buff campaigns. Instead of jumping through hoops trying to find ways around that, just accept it. If you add a campaign or two, people will spill over into the new campaigns without threatening anyone's buffs. You will get multiple active campaigns, smaller queues, and better performance.

I don't think there are enough PvP'rs left to add more servers. ZoS wanted a mainly PvE game and that's what they got, that's why so many people left the game in the first place. PvP has had so many issues since launch and when they fix some then others arise.

Look how many abilities are still bugged...what kind of dev team lets broken abilities like PURGE go by for months without being fixed. It should be a positive ability but will wipe your entire zerg if met with wall of elements. I'm surprised guilds haven't sent in spies to wipe other faction zergs with it

Then there is the issue with best gear = PvE, best leveling = PvE, needed skill points = PvE, and of course buff servers for PvE. I wish at least they would add true PvP gear like other MMO's that effects players and only attainable from PvPing

DDuke

frozywozy wrote: »

Like I mentionned in my post above, when I was reffering to the better survivability of nightblades in this game compared to the other similar classes of other mmos, I was reffering to the ability to "vanish" or get back into stealth while being in combat just anytime. Plus, you can roll after stealthing to help you get away from any AOE, another thing that you can't do in WoW. Also, you can teleport to your images to help you out (Watch Sypher's nightblade video gameplay if you don't know what I'm talking about).

If you roll dodge while sneaking, you get detected.
If you roll dodge while cloaked, cloak breaks.

Ability to "get back into stealth while being in combat" does not exist (ability to become invisible does, and it is not working currently). In fact, after getting into combat, you're usually unable to stealth at all for the next 30 seconds - 2 minutes.

Can you imagine how mad WoW rogues would be, if their own poisons prevented them from stealthing? If their vanish would instantly break after using it (without being hit by AoE or having DoT active)?

And why would I watch Syphers videos about how to play a magicka Nightblade, when I play a stamina one myself?

frozywozy wrote: »

If you played a rogue character for a good dozen years, you would know by now that dueling a "ressources focus" character as you call it takes time and require to get him out of ressources first before killing him.

Example : Rogue VS resto shaman, resto druid, holy paladin.

Yes, I'm all fine with there being tankier & targets taking time to take down. I loved dueling against those in other MMOs.

However, in this game you can be extremely tanky (I don't remember any other MMO where you had basicly infinite resources and could tank 20 people), while also dealing equal damage than someone who is pure dps.

Huntler wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Cool. I have a couple, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

1) Could we get an update on the progress toward fixing Cloak in PvP?
2) Will there be a fix for charged attacks / gap closers knocking NBs out of Cloak? Is this intended? (these also defeat invisibility potions)
3) Are Detect Pots intended to see through Cloak? An official response would be nice.
4) If so, why is it OK that one of a NB's skills is negated by a potion? And what about Magelight?

Yes both detect pots and magelight are intended to see through cloak and yes it is ok that one skill is countered by them. Everything in a game should have counters. These are those counters. Magelight in particular is 1 skill slot for 1 skill slot cancelling out. That is the definition really of fairness here.

This question was asked many many months ago and the dev response was that cloak being seen through with pot/magelight was intended (not a bug). Of course I imagine you'll disagree this is fair, but it makes sense IMO.

A counter that counters a whole playstyle, not only one skill.

You cannot sneak close to someone using Magelight, and in case of Stealth Detection Potion you usually cannot even know someone is using it.

Let's say we were playing WoW. Can you imagine the outrage, if rogues were suddenly unable to stealth near a paladin? That'd make the whole class unplayable against them.

In fact, this is what drives people to use bow, instead of playing a pure melee rogue type character.

Darlgon wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Hear that nightblades..You shouldn't be slotting Cloak

/facepalm

You did notice he is a Vet 14 NB and talking about how bad NBs are?



I know a level 14 NB in VR 12 gear who can solo resources. No idea what the heck he is talking about. Its definitely more about the person behind the character.

Did you notice it's a Nightblade who's videos happen to be the first thing that pops up when you google "eso stamina pvp" or "eso nightblade pvp"?

Feel free to watch them and think again whether it's the person behind the character.

Also, where did you find a level 14 NB wearing VR 12 gear?

frozywozy

AryaWythers wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

It sounds counter-intuitive, but ... add more campaigns. People love their buff campaigns. Instead of jumping through hoops trying to find ways around that, just accept it. If you add a campaign or two, people will spill over into the new campaigns without threatening anyone's buffs. You will get multiple active campaigns, smaller queues, and better performance.

I don't think there are enough PvP'rs left to add more servers. ZoS wanted a mainly PvE game and that's what they got, that's why so many people left the game in the first place. PvP has had so many issues since launch and when they fix some then others arise.

Look how many abilities are still bugged...what kind of dev team lets broken abilities like PURGE go by for months without being fixed. It should be a positive ability but will wipe your entire zerg if met with wall of elements. I'm surprised guilds haven't sent in spies to wipe other faction zergs with it

Then there is the issue with best gear = PvE, best leveling = PvE, needed skill points = PvE, and of course buff servers for PvE. I wish at least they would add true PvP gear like other MMO's that effects players and only attainable from PvPing

There should also be a system in place to keep track of your KDR in PvP and reward you with some great pvp gear accordingly.

I have heard some pretty good arguments of solo players complaining that this game should also give them opportunities to shine and I kinda start agreeing about it.

It should not be only about the amount of kills you get but also about your KDR to get rewards. This way, you would not need to play 40hours a week to stand out and show that you are a good and competitive player.

And when I talk about giving away great pvp gear, I'm not reffering to the gear you can craft or get from dungeons / trials. I am reffering about unique pvp gear that you can only obtain by being the best pvpers of your campaign. that kind of gear should give more stats, better set bonus and obviously give more damage / healing potential than anything you can get in this game.

It could also be an improvement material which would come after the orange/yellow tempers to improve your gear even more.

Dagoth_Rac

AryaWythers wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

It sounds counter-intuitive, but ... add more campaigns. People love their buff campaigns. Instead of jumping through hoops trying to find ways around that, just accept it. If you add a campaign or two, people will spill over into the new campaigns without threatening anyone's buffs. You will get multiple active campaigns, smaller queues, and better performance.

I don't think there are enough PvP'rs left to add more servers.

I think there are enough for more than 1 campaign. If you accept that buff campaigns are what the PvE players (who always vastly outnumber PvP in all games) want, and that there is no solution to that anytime soon, and that the 3 buff campaigns are actually part of PvE, you are left with ... 1 PvP campaign. Everyone thinks, "How can we add a 6th or 7th PvP campaign when most of the existing 5 PvP campaigns are empty!" But there are not 5 PvP campaigns. There are 3 PvE campaigns, a non-Vet campaign that is important but of limited use, and 1 true endgame PvP campaign. You need more than 1 endgame PvP campaign.

Pancake-Tragedy

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

AryaWythers wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

It sounds counter-intuitive, but ... add more campaigns. People love their buff campaigns. Instead of jumping through hoops trying to find ways around that, just accept it. If you add a campaign or two, people will spill over into the new campaigns without threatening anyone's buffs. You will get multiple active campaigns, smaller queues, and better performance.

I don't think there are enough PvP'rs left to add more servers.

I think there are enough for more than 1 campaign. If you accept that buff campaigns are what the PvE players (who always vastly outnumber PvP in all games) want, and that there is no solution to that anytime soon, and that the 3 buff campaigns are actually part of PvE, you are left with ... 1 PvP campaign. Everyone thinks, "How can we add a 6th or 7th PvP campaign when most of the existing 5 PvP campaigns are empty!" But there are not 5 PvP campaigns. There are 3 PvE campaigns, a non-Vet campaign that is important but of limited use, and 1 true endgame PvP campaign. You need more than 1 endgame PvP campaign.

I'd rather remove 2 of those "PvE campaigns" so that we have 2 true PvP campaigns. Thornblade and then the overflow goes into the other, or balance between the two to ease up on the lag.

Darlgon

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

AryaWythers wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

It sounds counter-intuitive, but ... add more campaigns. People love their buff campaigns. Instead of jumping through hoops trying to find ways around that, just accept it. If you add a campaign or two, people will spill over into the new campaigns without threatening anyone's buffs. You will get multiple active campaigns, smaller queues, and better performance.

I don't think there are enough PvP'rs left to add more servers.

I think there are enough for more than 1 campaign. If you accept that buff campaigns are what the PvE players (who always vastly outnumber PvP in all games) want, and that there is no solution to that anytime soon, and that the 3 buff campaigns are actually part of PvE, you are left with ... 1 PvP campaign. Everyone thinks, "How can we add a 6th or 7th PvP campaign when most of the existing 5 PvP campaigns are empty!" But there are not 5 PvP campaigns. There are 3 PvE campaigns, a non-Vet campaign that is important but of limited use, and 1 true endgame PvP campaign. You need more than 1 endgame PvP campaign.

How about, instead, we give every PVEer all the buffs and get rid of buff campaigns that they have to fight in? Oh wait.. no.. the buffs ARE TO ENCOURAGE PVEers TO go into CYRODIIL and earn them, not to avoid it.

OH, and you musta missed that Haderus is no longer a AD buff server. Its alive with lots of EP smashing AD and DC.. errr.. fighting I mean.. yeah..

AryaWythers

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

AryaWythers wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

It sounds counter-intuitive, but ... add more campaigns. People love their buff campaigns. Instead of jumping through hoops trying to find ways around that, just accept it. If you add a campaign or two, people will spill over into the new campaigns without threatening anyone's buffs. You will get multiple active campaigns, smaller queues, and better performance.

I don't think there are enough PvP'rs left to add more servers.

I think there are enough for more than 1 campaign. If you accept that buff campaigns are what the PvE players (who always vastly outnumber PvP in all games) want, and that there is no solution to that anytime soon, and that the 3 buff campaigns are actually part of PvE, you are left with ... 1 PvP campaign. Everyone thinks, "How can we add a 6th or 7th PvP campaign when most of the existing 5 PvP campaigns are empty!" But there are not 5 PvP campaigns. There are 3 PvE campaigns, a non-Vet campaign that is important but of limited use, and 1 true endgame PvP campaign. You need more than 1 endgame PvP campaign.

I think most people that PvP just want good fights no matter what...that is why Haderus is getting action now that the pop locks were lowered. Unless the do away with the cross faction restrictions for PvP they are at the lowest they can go on different campaigns. I don't think anyone is going to go into another dead server if there are no fights but just horse riding and gate camping...I know some people love it but not for me.

They should add some new content to PvP or Tiered gear sets specific to PvP...so that the PvE'rs actually have to come out and PvP and get the gear to actually be competitive to defend their Buff server instead of running PvE all day long to have best gear for PvP. Use tokens earned from dailies and such for new gear and make sure it's superior to PvE gear when in Cyrodill but almost useless in PvE. Could even have them drop in the dungeons once a day for some added bonus fights out of the way the same old back and forth keep fights.

TheBull

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ Could you please give us an update on cloak tweeks. A large portion of the population is wondering. Thanks.

Poxheart

DDuke wrote: »

in case of Stealth Detection Potion you usually cannot even know someone is using it

This is not true. You just know what the tell is.

Lava_Croft

Poxheart wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

in case of Stealth Detection Potion you usually cannot even know someone is using it

This is not true. You just know what the tell is.

Yup. If you are being detected by someone's potion, your sneak eye will not be fully closed. (In my experience, which given that this is ESO may vary greatly from yours.)

Poxheart

Grim13 wrote: »

If a gap closer / charged attack starts before Cloak it absolutely knocks you out of it.

As I said, I tested it extensively in a controlled environment and a gap closer activated before cloak does not knock the NB out of cloak. Your experiences are probably influenced by other abilities interacting with cloak, detect pots, etc.

Rylana

miahq wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Eglath wrote: »

Unfortunately right now, if you don't block or have 1k shield on you, you are dead in no time. Players shouldn't be able to kill each other in 3sec, we need more passive dmg mitigation.
Yes I agree with blocking being nice way, but it's only way atm. As a sorc I have 1 unblockable skill, curse, and very often it's only skill that's actually doing dmg against perma-blockers. So what you've said is correct, it is a problem. And therefore ZOS needs to adress it and give us more survivability outisde of block, especially for ppl without S&B.

Yes they should be able to kill quickly - otherwise remove nb skill tree assasnation and rename it pointless.... like the class

I've always loved this type of mindset that "rogue" players have that they should be able to instant kill people in a video game because reasons.

And I always loved the mindset of people who complain like hell that it's not fair they can be insta killed by something until it's taken away or nerfed. Because reasons, I guess. Apparently only one of those is a legitimate view point, though.

Because it is bad game design in a competetive game to have basically an insta kill outcome where the opposing side under reasonable circumstances (considering solid builds, scenario, etc.) has no chance of reverse kill/defending.

/Answered

Actually that's opinion, and really carries no more weight than someone who believes that a stealthed critical attack should do a lot of damage. One isn't any more valid just because you agree with it. Nor does sarcasm really detract from the idea that if a character class designed around stealth attacks has to take 5-10 hits to kill anyone-- only the first of which will actually be stealthed-- that yes, it kind of makes the whole thing pointless. Especially because those builds tend to be glass cannons.

Nor do is see how being able to survive until you're personally satisfied you've had enough time to kill the other person is simply bad game design, mostly because by "solid build," I'm assuming you don't mean a solid tank with tons of armor, but just whatever build you're currently using.

So not answered.

Actually it is bad game design because the herd always follows the trend. If you put in an I-win button, sooner or later everyone starts using it, and the game becomes homogenized to the one build to rule them all, and diversity/strategy is replaced by pure "do i have the right build to win in the game" mentality.

Then we get all those stupid threads "whats the best X"

TheBull

Poxheart wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

If a gap closer / charged attack starts before Cloak it absolutely knocks you out of it.

As I said, I tested it extensively in a controlled environment and a gap closer activated before cloak does not knock the NB out of cloak. Your experiences are probably influenced by other abilities interacting with cloak, detect pots, etc.

No pox, it happens most frequently when 2 or more range attacks or charges are being used. Prior to 1.5 NBs would do a doge animation. Since then many attacks still track, but simply fizzle on the NB.

About 30-40% of the time when a single person is attacking with ranged abilities and 80% of the time when multiple people are attacking with range abilities, the ones that fizzle instead of being dodged will break cloak. We are back to spamming it and praying that it holds.

edit - I just wanted to and, the period in between the cloak fixes and 1.5 was the best that cloak ever worked.

Grim13

Poxheart wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

If a gap closer / charged attack starts before Cloak it absolutely knocks you out of it.

As I said, I tested it extensively in a controlled environment and a gap closer activated before cloak does not knock the NB out of cloak. Your experiences are probably influenced by other abilities interacting with cloak, detect pots, etc.

..and you're running these tests in PvP? What controls are you using in that environment?

Poxheart

@‌TheBull Then what you're describing now is not what was originally claimed. I agree that it certainly seems like multiple ranged attacks and/or ranged attacks combined with gap closers break cloak (based on my experiences). However I haven't tested it in a controlled environment so I can't say for sure.

I stand by my claim that a single gap closer does not break stealth.

@Grim13 Yes, in PvP with both people in voice chat counting down skill use.

Grim13

Poxheart wrote: »

@‌TheBull Then what you're describing now is not what was originally claimed. I agree that it certainly seems like multiple ranged attacks and/or ranged attacks combined with gap closers break cloak (based on my experiences). However I haven't tested it in a controlled environment so I can't say for sure.

I stand by my claim that a single gap closer does not break stealth.

@Grim13 Yes, in PvP with both people in voice chat counting down skill use.

Well, I'm here to tell you that not only do multiple attacks do it... single attacks do as well.

I know this because I've experienced it occurring dozens of times in circumstances where there were only 2 combatants involved. Me and them. I've been knocked out by them and they've been knocked out by me.

It's gotten to the point where if I even see someone flitting in and out of stealth I'll use a gap closer or charged attack knowing it will knock them out of Cloak if they're a NB.

As, I'd assume, most everyone else in Cyro is... judging by the number of times I've had it happen to me.

Poxheart

At this point I'll just follow the advice in your signature.

TheBull

Grim13 wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

@‌TheBull Then what you're describing now is not what was originally claimed. I agree that it certainly seems like multiple ranged attacks and/or ranged attacks combined with gap closers break cloak (based on my experiences). However I haven't tested it in a controlled environment so I can't say for sure.

I stand by my claim that a single gap closer does not break stealth.

@Grim13 Yes, in PvP with both people in voice chat counting down skill use.

Well, I'm here to tell you that not only do multiple attacks do it... single attacks do as well.

I know this because I've experienced it occurring dozens of times in circumstances where there were only 2 combatants involved. Me and them. I've been knocked out by them and they've been knocked out by me.

It's gotten to the point where if I even see someone flitting in and out of stealth I'll use a gap closer or charged attack knowing it will knock them out of Cloak if they're a NB.

As, I'd assume, most everyone else in Cyro is... judging by the number of times I've had it happen to me.

How about when you see them activate cloak and they turn red-ish but still can see them

Grim13

TheBull wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

@‌TheBull Then what you're describing now is not what was originally claimed. I agree that it certainly seems like multiple ranged attacks and/or ranged attacks combined with gap closers break cloak (based on my experiences). However I haven't tested it in a controlled environment so I can't say for sure.

I stand by my claim that a single gap closer does not break stealth.

@Grim13 Yes, in PvP with both people in voice chat counting down skill use.

Well, I'm here to tell you that not only do multiple attacks do it... single attacks do as well.

I know this because I've experienced it occurring dozens of times in circumstances where there were only 2 combatants involved. Me and them. I've been knocked out by them and they've been knocked out by me.

It's gotten to the point where if I even see someone flitting in and out of stealth I'll use a gap closer or charged attack knowing it will knock them out of Cloak if they're a NB.

As, I'd assume, most everyone else in Cyro is... judging by the number of times I've had it happen to me.

How about when you see them activate cloak and they turn red-ish but still can see them

While I cannot say for certain what colour they appeared... I have seen plenty a NB attempt to Cloak, where they obviously thought they'd succeeded, while, like you say, they were still clearly visible... lol

I've always felt a twinge of guilt whenever I've witnessed this... and muttered "*** Cloak" under my breath as I killed them.

Grim13

Poxheart wrote: »

At this point I'll just follow the advice in your signature.

lol Or we could agree to disagree... since neither of us appear to be stupid. Well, unless you're making an assumption about me... and you know what they say about assumptions. ;P

I've played my NB for several hundred hours, 95% of that in PvP,... I haven't arrived at this conclusion by wistfully materialising it out of thin air.

It's entirely possible that the discrepancy between our experiences lies in the fact that Cloak does occasionally work. Sometimes it's the amazing ability it's meant to be... but more often than not it's an embarrassing death.