State of the Game -- A Former PVP Guild Lead's Commentary

Pancake-Tragedy

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Good to know. I'd like to know, if all Magicka-based AoEs will be blockable, if the Nightblade's Aspect of Terror will be blockable. Because if so, block casting is just going to be getting better and better in 1.6.

I would really like a confirmation on this also.

Satiar

Indeed.

Also, will this change effect skills like talons, or standard, siphon ultimate, Sap essence, etc?

DDuke

frozywozy wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Eglath wrote: »

Unfortunately right now, if you don't block or have 1k shield on you, you are dead in no time. Players shouldn't be able to kill each other in 3sec, we need more passive dmg mitigation.
Yes I agree with blocking being nice way, but it's only way atm. As a sorc I have 1 unblockable skill, curse, and very often it's only skill that's actually doing dmg against perma-blockers. So what you've said is correct, it is a problem. And therefore ZOS needs to adress it and give us more survivability outisde of block, especially for ppl without S&B.

Yes they should be able to kill quickly - otherwise remove nb skill tree assasnation and rename it pointless.... like the class

I've always loved this type of mindset that "rogue" players have that they should be able to instant kill people in a video game because reasons.

And I always loved the mindset of people who complain like hell that it's not fair they can be insta killed by something until it's taken away or nerfed. Because reasons, I guess. Apparently only one of those is a legitimate view point, though.

Because it is bad game design in a competetive game to have basically an insta kill outcome where the opposing side under reasonable circumstances (considering solid builds, scenario, etc.) has no chance of reverse kill/defending.

/Answered

Actually that's opinion, and really carries no more weight than someone who believes that a stealthed critical attack should do a lot of damage. One isn't any more valid just because you agree with it. Nor does sarcasm really detract from the idea that if a character class designed around stealth attacks has to take 5-10 hits to kill anyone-- only the first of which will actually be stealthed-- that yes, it kind of makes the whole thing pointless. Especially because those builds tend to be glass cannons.

Nor do is see how being able to survive until you're personally satisfied you've had enough time to kill the other person is simply bad game design, mostly because by "solid build," I'm assuming you don't mean a solid tank with tons of armor, but just whatever build you're currently using.

So not answered.

No its not opinion, its fact. A competetive game has to be fair, one character that can insta gib another in a fair circumstance is bad game design. Stealth characters have always been meant to have an advantage from stealth, not an IWIN scenario because you are stealthed, if you can't see why thats bad game design.... no one will convince you.


Regardless, if you think nightblades are a rogue class entirely and can only be successful from stealth..... then you have no idea how to play a nightblade.

Not to forget that in WoW, a rogue has a cooldown to Vanish and he has to be VERY wise about using it at the right moment.

In this game, you can stealth as much as you can and you can also roll before or teleport to your image to help you out about not getting reveal instantly by aoe damage.

This being said, nightblades has a huge advantage in this game compared to other mmos regarding survivability. I don't think their damage should ALSO be better so they can insta-kill someone.

What advantage are you talking about here?

If you mean cloak, that gets broken by everything under the sun, then think again. That thing is a waste of magicka, and no competitive player would slot it in its current stance.

Apart from that, there's not much skills for survival for NBs. Actually, there aren't much skills made for survivability in the game at all, that aren't damage shields or heals.

As someone who has been playing rogues in RPGs/MMOs for a good dozen years now, I'm fine with not being able to one shot people. What I'm not fine with, is being unable to kill anyone who decides to "play the resource game" and just spam heals or dmg shields until I run out of resources.

I don't want to heal, or spam dmg shields. I don't want to hold block, tanking hordes of players.
I want to be a rogue, utilizing stealth, CC & burst damage, and I want to do that competitively (just like in any other MMO or RPG out there).
It is currently not possible in ESO, and until it is possible, bursting down people in 2-3 seconds is the only way of getting kills.

That said...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Since this is the thread where one can expect answers, what is the status with Shadow cloak & its morphs? Can we expect any fixes in 1.6?
The only stealth skill in game has been broken and nigh useless for good 4-5 months now.

How about the whole stealth gameplay, any new mechanics/skills for that in 1.6 that players enjoying rogue type characters might like?

frozywozy

DDuke wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Eglath wrote: »

Unfortunately right now, if you don't block or have 1k shield on you, you are dead in no time. Players shouldn't be able to kill each other in 3sec, we need more passive dmg mitigation.
Yes I agree with blocking being nice way, but it's only way atm. As a sorc I have 1 unblockable skill, curse, and very often it's only skill that's actually doing dmg against perma-blockers. So what you've said is correct, it is a problem. And therefore ZOS needs to adress it and give us more survivability outisde of block, especially for ppl without S&B.

Yes they should be able to kill quickly - otherwise remove nb skill tree assasnation and rename it pointless.... like the class

I've always loved this type of mindset that "rogue" players have that they should be able to instant kill people in a video game because reasons.

And I always loved the mindset of people who complain like hell that it's not fair they can be insta killed by something until it's taken away or nerfed. Because reasons, I guess. Apparently only one of those is a legitimate view point, though.

Because it is bad game design in a competetive game to have basically an insta kill outcome where the opposing side under reasonable circumstances (considering solid builds, scenario, etc.) has no chance of reverse kill/defending.

/Answered

Actually that's opinion, and really carries no more weight than someone who believes that a stealthed critical attack should do a lot of damage. One isn't any more valid just because you agree with it. Nor does sarcasm really detract from the idea that if a character class designed around stealth attacks has to take 5-10 hits to kill anyone-- only the first of which will actually be stealthed-- that yes, it kind of makes the whole thing pointless. Especially because those builds tend to be glass cannons.

Nor do is see how being able to survive until you're personally satisfied you've had enough time to kill the other person is simply bad game design, mostly because by "solid build," I'm assuming you don't mean a solid tank with tons of armor, but just whatever build you're currently using.

So not answered.

No its not opinion, its fact. A competetive game has to be fair, one character that can insta gib another in a fair circumstance is bad game design. Stealth characters have always been meant to have an advantage from stealth, not an IWIN scenario because you are stealthed, if you can't see why thats bad game design.... no one will convince you.


Regardless, if you think nightblades are a rogue class entirely and can only be successful from stealth..... then you have no idea how to play a nightblade.

Not to forget that in WoW, a rogue has a cooldown to Vanish and he has to be VERY wise about using it at the right moment.

In this game, you can stealth as much as you can and you can also roll before or teleport to your image to help you out about not getting reveal instantly by aoe damage.

This being said, nightblades has a huge advantage in this game compared to other mmos regarding survivability. I don't think their damage should ALSO be better so they can insta-kill someone.

What advantage are you talking about here?

If you mean cloak, that gets broken by everything under the sun, then think again. That thing is a waste of magicka, and no competitive player would slot it in its current stance.

Apart from that, there's not much skills for survival for NBs. Actually, there aren't much skills made for survivability in the game at all, that aren't damage shields or heals.

As someone who has been playing rogues in RPGs/MMOs for a good dozen years now, I'm fine with not being able to one shot people. What I'm not fine with, is being unable to kill anyone who decides to "play the resource game" and just spam heals or dmg shields until I run out of resources.

I don't want to heal, or spam dmg shields. I don't want to hold block, tanking hordes of players.
I want to be a rogue, utilizing stealth, CC & burst damage, and I want to do that competitively (just like in any other MMO or RPG out there).
It is currently not possible in ESO, and until it is possible, bursting down people in 2-3 seconds is the only way of getting kills.

That said...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Since this is the thread where one can expect answers, what is the status with Shadow cloak & its morphs? Can we expect any fixes in 1.6?
The only stealth skill in game has been broken and nigh useless for good 4-5 months now.

How about the whole stealth gameplay, any new mechanics/skills for that in 1.6 that players enjoying rogue type characters might like?

Like I mentionned in my post above, when I was reffering to the better survivability of nightblades in this game compared to the other similar classes of other mmos, I was reffering to the ability to "vanish" or get back into stealth while being in combat just anytime. Plus, you can roll after stealthing to help you get away from any AOE, another thing that you can't do in WoW. Also, you can teleport to your images to help you out (Watch Sypher's nightblade video gameplay if you don't know what I'm talking about).

If you played a rogue character for a good dozen years, you would know by now that dueling a "ressources focus" character as you call it takes time and require to get him out of ressources first before killing him.

Example : Rogue VS resto shaman, resto druid, holy paladin.

If they have good mana regeneration, the fight can last forever. At that point it depends of your gear and I think this is mainly the problem in this game. End-game PvP gear is too easily obtained and only people with a high "mmr" should be able to access some special gear sets that give more stats and obviously more damage to help you out killing those "ressources focus" characters.

Grim13

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Cool. I have a couple, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

1) Could we get an update on the progress toward fixing Cloak in PvP?
2) Will there be a fix for charged attacks / gap closers knocking NBs out of Cloak? Is this intended? (these also defeat invisibility potions)
3) Are Detect Pots intended to see through Cloak? An official response would be nice.
4) If so, why is it OK that one of a NB's skills is negated by a potion? And what about Magelight?

Fordd

I agree with basically everything the OP stated. Has ZOS confirmed that purge will be fixed in 1.6?

Huntler

Grim13 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Cool. I have a couple, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

1) Could we get an update on the progress toward fixing Cloak in PvP?
2) Will there be a fix for charged attacks / gap closers knocking NBs out of Cloak? Is this intended? (these also defeat invisibility potions)
3) Are Detect Pots intended to see through Cloak? An official response would be nice.
4) If so, why is it OK that one of a NB's skills is negated by a potion? And what about Magelight?

Yes both detect pots and magelight are intended to see through cloak and yes it is ok that one skill is countered by them. Everything in a game should have counters. These are those counters. Magelight in particular is 1 skill slot for 1 skill slot cancelling out. That is the definition really of fairness here.

This question was asked many many months ago and the dev response was that cloak being seen through with pot/magelight was intended (not a bug). Of course I imagine you'll disagree this is fair, but it makes sense IMO.

Huntler

Fordd wrote: »

I agree with basically everything the OP stated. Has ZOS confirmed that purge will be fixed in 1.6?

Yes, we talked to one of the devs a few days ago. Purge fixed in 1.6

Grim13

Huntler wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Cool. I have a couple, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

1) Could we get an update on the progress toward fixing Cloak in PvP?
2) Will there be a fix for charged attacks / gap closers knocking NBs out of Cloak? Is this intended? (these also defeat invisibility potions)
3) Are Detect Pots intended to see through Cloak? An official response would be nice.
4) If so, why is it OK that one of a NB's skills is negated by a potion? And what about Magelight?

Yes both detect pots and magelight are intended to see through cloak and yes it is ok that one skill is countered by them. Everything in a game should have counters. These are those counters. Magelight in particular is 1 skill slot for 1 skill slot cancelling out. That is the definition really of fairness here.

This question was asked many many months ago and the dev response was that cloak being seen through with pot/magelight was intended (not a bug). Of course I imagine you'll disagree this is fair, but it makes sense IMO.

It's fair when I get a potion to counter Reflective Scales and Bolt Escape... (sarcasm)

There's a difference between countering stealth and countering Cloak.

Magelight countering stealth and Cloak is fine, imo... but that should be the only counter to Cloak... and it's available to everyone already.

Having a potion that counters both stealth and Cloak, and not just stealth like it should (obviously, imo), on top of Magelight is overkill.

---

Anyway, that's beside the point. I'd love to see these questions answered, once and for all, in an official capacity so that all of my NB brethren and I will have something to reference in the future. All in one spot.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Satiar wrote: »

Indeed.

Also, will this change effect skills like talons, or standard, siphon ultimate, Sap essence, etc?

Good questions there too.

Imagine if 1.6 makes all AoE's blockable, thus nerfing the NB's fear and Sapping, but allows Talons to still be unblockable and does nothing to address block casting.

That's a Dragon Knight's dream, and everyone else's nightmare.

Tripwyr

kaer426 wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

...
Despite the widespread resentment, in my experience AD are the only faction that actually have support builds and team players instead of large groups of individuals. The number of selfish players on Blue and Red sides is astronomical.
...

hahaha "play like me or you're selfish" bwahahaha
In fairness, we wanted more pompous and self-righteous players but, AD took them all.

Rofl. Players who run a team oriented build are team players, those who do not are not. Not entirely sure how that is self-righteous, but you're welcome to your opinion!

Tripwyr

DDuke wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Eglath wrote: »

Unfortunately right now, if you don't block or have 1k shield on you, you are dead in no time. Players shouldn't be able to kill each other in 3sec, we need more passive dmg mitigation.
Yes I agree with blocking being nice way, but it's only way atm. As a sorc I have 1 unblockable skill, curse, and very often it's only skill that's actually doing dmg against perma-blockers. So what you've said is correct, it is a problem. And therefore ZOS needs to adress it and give us more survivability outisde of block, especially for ppl without S&B.

Yes they should be able to kill quickly - otherwise remove nb skill tree assasnation and rename it pointless.... like the class

I've always loved this type of mindset that "rogue" players have that they should be able to instant kill people in a video game because reasons.

And I always loved the mindset of people who complain like hell that it's not fair they can be insta killed by something until it's taken away or nerfed. Because reasons, I guess. Apparently only one of those is a legitimate view point, though.

Because it is bad game design in a competetive game to have basically an insta kill outcome where the opposing side under reasonable circumstances (considering solid builds, scenario, etc.) has no chance of reverse kill/defending.

/Answered

Actually that's opinion, and really carries no more weight than someone who believes that a stealthed critical attack should do a lot of damage. One isn't any more valid just because you agree with it. Nor does sarcasm really detract from the idea that if a character class designed around stealth attacks has to take 5-10 hits to kill anyone-- only the first of which will actually be stealthed-- that yes, it kind of makes the whole thing pointless. Especially because those builds tend to be glass cannons.

Nor do is see how being able to survive until you're personally satisfied you've had enough time to kill the other person is simply bad game design, mostly because by "solid build," I'm assuming you don't mean a solid tank with tons of armor, but just whatever build you're currently using.

So not answered.

No its not opinion, its fact. A competetive game has to be fair, one character that can insta gib another in a fair circumstance is bad game design. Stealth characters have always been meant to have an advantage from stealth, not an IWIN scenario because you are stealthed, if you can't see why thats bad game design.... no one will convince you.


Regardless, if you think nightblades are a rogue class entirely and can only be successful from stealth..... then you have no idea how to play a nightblade.

Not to forget that in WoW, a rogue has a cooldown to Vanish and he has to be VERY wise about using it at the right moment.

In this game, you can stealth as much as you can and you can also roll before or teleport to your image to help you out about not getting reveal instantly by aoe damage.

This being said, nightblades has a huge advantage in this game compared to other mmos regarding survivability. I don't think their damage should ALSO be better so they can insta-kill someone.

What advantage are you talking about here?

If you mean cloak, that gets broken by everything under the sun, then think again. That thing is a waste of magicka, and no competitive player would slot it in its current stance.

Apart from that, there's not much skills for survival for NBs. Actually, there aren't much skills made for survivability in the game at all, that aren't damage shields or heals.

As someone who has been playing rogues in RPGs/MMOs for a good dozen years now, I'm fine with not being able to one shot people. What I'm not fine with, is being unable to kill anyone who decides to "play the resource game" and just spam heals or dmg shields until I run out of resources.

I don't want to heal, or spam dmg shields. I don't want to hold block, tanking hordes of players.
I want to be a rogue, utilizing stealth, CC & burst damage, and I want to do that competitively (just like in any other MMO or RPG out there).
It is currently not possible in ESO, and until it is possible, bursting down people in 2-3 seconds is the only way of getting kills.

That said...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Since this is the thread where one can expect answers, what is the status with Shadow cloak & its morphs? Can we expect any fixes in 1.6?
The only stealth skill in game has been broken and nigh useless for good 4-5 months now.

How about the whole stealth gameplay, any new mechanics/skills for that in 1.6 that players enjoying rogue type characters might like?

So you're not looking for balance, you're looking for the "rogue" playstyle to beat all other playstyles. The tanky/resource game has always been the winning strategy against "rogue" type players. The typical heirarchy (which holds true in ESO as it does your WoW example):

Tanky/Resource/Healy > Rogue/Stealth > Glass Cannon/Mobility/Control > Tanky/Resource/Healy

I can easily burst down a Templar playing the heals/shield game, and I can control and kill a DK playing the reflect/tank game with the right builds. However, I can be 3 shot by Bow/2h users quite easily if I am not prepared for it. If I am prepared for it, then I've simply outplayed you, in the same way that if you combine a sword/shield reflect with a few snipes out of stealth you can outplay a DK.

Xsorus

DDuke wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Eglath wrote: »

Unfortunately right now, if you don't block or have 1k shield on you, you are dead in no time. Players shouldn't be able to kill each other in 3sec, we need more passive dmg mitigation.
Yes I agree with blocking being nice way, but it's only way atm. As a sorc I have 1 unblockable skill, curse, and very often it's only skill that's actually doing dmg against perma-blockers. So what you've said is correct, it is a problem. And therefore ZOS needs to adress it and give us more survivability outisde of block, especially for ppl without S&B.

Yes they should be able to kill quickly - otherwise remove nb skill tree assasnation and rename it pointless.... like the class

I've always loved this type of mindset that "rogue" players have that they should be able to instant kill people in a video game because reasons.

And I always loved the mindset of people who complain like hell that it's not fair they can be insta killed by something until it's taken away or nerfed. Because reasons, I guess. Apparently only one of those is a legitimate view point, though.

Because it is bad game design in a competetive game to have basically an insta kill outcome where the opposing side under reasonable circumstances (considering solid builds, scenario, etc.) has no chance of reverse kill/defending.

/Answered

Actually that's opinion, and really carries no more weight than someone who believes that a stealthed critical attack should do a lot of damage. One isn't any more valid just because you agree with it. Nor does sarcasm really detract from the idea that if a character class designed around stealth attacks has to take 5-10 hits to kill anyone-- only the first of which will actually be stealthed-- that yes, it kind of makes the whole thing pointless. Especially because those builds tend to be glass cannons.

Nor do is see how being able to survive until you're personally satisfied you've had enough time to kill the other person is simply bad game design, mostly because by "solid build," I'm assuming you don't mean a solid tank with tons of armor, but just whatever build you're currently using.

So not answered.

No its not opinion, its fact. A competetive game has to be fair, one character that can insta gib another in a fair circumstance is bad game design. Stealth characters have always been meant to have an advantage from stealth, not an IWIN scenario because you are stealthed, if you can't see why thats bad game design.... no one will convince you.


Regardless, if you think nightblades are a rogue class entirely and can only be successful from stealth..... then you have no idea how to play a nightblade.

Not to forget that in WoW, a rogue has a cooldown to Vanish and he has to be VERY wise about using it at the right moment.

In this game, you can stealth as much as you can and you can also roll before or teleport to your image to help you out about not getting reveal instantly by aoe damage.

This being said, nightblades has a huge advantage in this game compared to other mmos regarding survivability. I don't think their damage should ALSO be better so they can insta-kill someone.

What advantage are you talking about here?

If you mean cloak, that gets broken by everything under the sun, then think again. That thing is a waste of magicka, and no competitive player would slot it in its current stance.

Apart from that, there's not much skills for survival for NBs. Actually, there aren't much skills made for survivability in the game at all, that aren't damage shields or heals.

As someone who has been playing rogues in RPGs/MMOs for a good dozen years now, I'm fine with not being able to one shot people. What I'm not fine with, is being unable to kill anyone who decides to "play the resource game" and just spam heals or dmg shields until I run out of resources.

I don't want to heal, or spam dmg shields. I don't want to hold block, tanking hordes of players.
I want to be a rogue, utilizing stealth, CC & burst damage, and I want to do that competitively (just like in any other MMO or RPG out there).
It is currently not possible in ESO, and until it is possible, bursting down people in 2-3 seconds is the only way of getting kills.

That said...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Since this is the thread where one can expect answers, what is the status with Shadow cloak & its morphs? Can we expect any fixes in 1.6?
The only stealth skill in game has been broken and nigh useless for good 4-5 months now.

How about the whole stealth gameplay, any new mechanics/skills for that in 1.6 that players enjoying rogue type characters might like?

Hear that nightblades..You shouldn't be slotting Cloak

/facepalm

eventide03b14a_ESO

Huntler wrote: »

Fordd wrote: »

I agree with basically everything the OP stated. Has ZOS confirmed that purge will be fixed in 1.6?

Yes, we talked to one of the devs a few days ago. Purge fixed in 1.6

Purge is such an essential skill. I am completely baffled why this was not hot fixed. Instead we have to wait till 1.6? Ridiculous.

Satiar

Oh my lord.

What the hell, Nightblade compatriots?

Cloak is one of the best skills in the game!

If it was "fixed" or made better Id laugh my way to Grand Overlord on a red carpet of copses.

it's pretty much *the* best damage mitigation skill in Eso

eventide03b14a_ESO

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Eglath wrote: »

Unfortunately right now, if you don't block or have 1k shield on you, you are dead in no time. Players shouldn't be able to kill each other in 3sec, we need more passive dmg mitigation.
Yes I agree with blocking being nice way, but it's only way atm. As a sorc I have 1 unblockable skill, curse, and very often it's only skill that's actually doing dmg against perma-blockers. So what you've said is correct, it is a problem. And therefore ZOS needs to adress it and give us more survivability outisde of block, especially for ppl without S&B.

Yes they should be able to kill quickly - otherwise remove nb skill tree assasnation and rename it pointless.... like the class

I've always loved this type of mindset that "rogue" players have that they should be able to instant kill people in a video game because reasons.

And I always loved the mindset of people who complain like hell that it's not fair they can be insta killed by something until it's taken away or nerfed. Because reasons, I guess. Apparently only one of those is a legitimate view point, though.

Because it is bad game design in a competetive game to have basically an insta kill outcome where the opposing side under reasonable circumstances (considering solid builds, scenario, etc.) has no chance of reverse kill/defending.

/Answered

Actually that's opinion, and really carries no more weight than someone who believes that a stealthed critical attack should do a lot of damage. One isn't any more valid just because you agree with it. Nor does sarcasm really detract from the idea that if a character class designed around stealth attacks has to take 5-10 hits to kill anyone-- only the first of which will actually be stealthed-- that yes, it kind of makes the whole thing pointless. Especially because those builds tend to be glass cannons.

Nor do is see how being able to survive until you're personally satisfied you've had enough time to kill the other person is simply bad game design, mostly because by "solid build," I'm assuming you don't mean a solid tank with tons of armor, but just whatever build you're currently using.

So not answered.

No its not opinion, its fact. A competetive game has to be fair, one character that can insta gib another in a fair circumstance is bad game design. Stealth characters have always been meant to have an advantage from stealth, not an IWIN scenario because you are stealthed, if you can't see why thats bad game design.... no one will convince you.


Regardless, if you think nightblades are a rogue class entirely and can only be successful from stealth..... then you have no idea how to play a nightblade.

Not to forget that in WoW, a rogue has a cooldown to Vanish and he has to be VERY wise about using it at the right moment.

In this game, you can stealth as much as you can and you can also roll before or teleport to your image to help you out about not getting reveal instantly by aoe damage.

This being said, nightblades has a huge advantage in this game compared to other mmos regarding survivability. I don't think their damage should ALSO be better so they can insta-kill someone.

What advantage are you talking about here?

If you mean cloak, that gets broken by everything under the sun, then think again. That thing is a waste of magicka, and no competitive player would slot it in its current stance.

Apart from that, there's not much skills for survival for NBs. Actually, there aren't much skills made for survivability in the game at all, that aren't damage shields or heals.

As someone who has been playing rogues in RPGs/MMOs for a good dozen years now, I'm fine with not being able to one shot people. What I'm not fine with, is being unable to kill anyone who decides to "play the resource game" and just spam heals or dmg shields until I run out of resources.

I don't want to heal, or spam dmg shields. I don't want to hold block, tanking hordes of players.
I want to be a rogue, utilizing stealth, CC & burst damage, and I want to do that competitively (just like in any other MMO or RPG out there).
It is currently not possible in ESO, and until it is possible, bursting down people in 2-3 seconds is the only way of getting kills.

That said...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Since this is the thread where one can expect answers, what is the status with Shadow cloak & its morphs? Can we expect any fixes in 1.6?
The only stealth skill in game has been broken and nigh useless for good 4-5 months now.

How about the whole stealth gameplay, any new mechanics/skills for that in 1.6 that players enjoying rogue type characters might like?

Hear that nightblades..You shouldn't be slotting Cloak

/facepalm

I would slot it just for the negative effects it removes. I guess some people enjoy DoTs.

Huntler

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Eglath wrote: »

Unfortunately right now, if you don't block or have 1k shield on you, you are dead in no time. Players shouldn't be able to kill each other in 3sec, we need more passive dmg mitigation.
Yes I agree with blocking being nice way, but it's only way atm. As a sorc I have 1 unblockable skill, curse, and very often it's only skill that's actually doing dmg against perma-blockers. So what you've said is correct, it is a problem. And therefore ZOS needs to adress it and give us more survivability outisde of block, especially for ppl without S&B.

Yes they should be able to kill quickly - otherwise remove nb skill tree assasnation and rename it pointless.... like the class

I've always loved this type of mindset that "rogue" players have that they should be able to instant kill people in a video game because reasons.

And I always loved the mindset of people who complain like hell that it's not fair they can be insta killed by something until it's taken away or nerfed. Because reasons, I guess. Apparently only one of those is a legitimate view point, though.

Because it is bad game design in a competetive game to have basically an insta kill outcome where the opposing side under reasonable circumstances (considering solid builds, scenario, etc.) has no chance of reverse kill/defending.

/Answered

Actually that's opinion, and really carries no more weight than someone who believes that a stealthed critical attack should do a lot of damage. One isn't any more valid just because you agree with it. Nor does sarcasm really detract from the idea that if a character class designed around stealth attacks has to take 5-10 hits to kill anyone-- only the first of which will actually be stealthed-- that yes, it kind of makes the whole thing pointless. Especially because those builds tend to be glass cannons.

Nor do is see how being able to survive until you're personally satisfied you've had enough time to kill the other person is simply bad game design, mostly because by "solid build," I'm assuming you don't mean a solid tank with tons of armor, but just whatever build you're currently using.

So not answered.

No its not opinion, its fact. A competetive game has to be fair, one character that can insta gib another in a fair circumstance is bad game design. Stealth characters have always been meant to have an advantage from stealth, not an IWIN scenario because you are stealthed, if you can't see why thats bad game design.... no one will convince you.


Regardless, if you think nightblades are a rogue class entirely and can only be successful from stealth..... then you have no idea how to play a nightblade.

Not to forget that in WoW, a rogue has a cooldown to Vanish and he has to be VERY wise about using it at the right moment.

In this game, you can stealth as much as you can and you can also roll before or teleport to your image to help you out about not getting reveal instantly by aoe damage.

This being said, nightblades has a huge advantage in this game compared to other mmos regarding survivability. I don't think their damage should ALSO be better so they can insta-kill someone.

What advantage are you talking about here?

If you mean cloak, that gets broken by everything under the sun, then think again. That thing is a waste of magicka, and no competitive player would slot it in its current stance.

Apart from that, there's not much skills for survival for NBs. Actually, there aren't much skills made for survivability in the game at all, that aren't damage shields or heals.

As someone who has been playing rogues in RPGs/MMOs for a good dozen years now, I'm fine with not being able to one shot people. What I'm not fine with, is being unable to kill anyone who decides to "play the resource game" and just spam heals or dmg shields until I run out of resources.

I don't want to heal, or spam dmg shields. I don't want to hold block, tanking hordes of players.
I want to be a rogue, utilizing stealth, CC & burst damage, and I want to do that competitively (just like in any other MMO or RPG out there).
It is currently not possible in ESO, and until it is possible, bursting down people in 2-3 seconds is the only way of getting kills.

That said...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Since this is the thread where one can expect answers, what is the status with Shadow cloak & its morphs? Can we expect any fixes in 1.6?
The only stealth skill in game has been broken and nigh useless for good 4-5 months now.

How about the whole stealth gameplay, any new mechanics/skills for that in 1.6 that players enjoying rogue type characters might like?

Hear that nightblades..You shouldn't be slotting Cloak

/facepalm

I would slot it just for the negative effects it removes. I guess some people enjoy DoTs.

Ding ding ding, winner winner tell him what he's won. Many people unfortunately don't realize how useful of a skill that is to not have to run purge or rely on another to clense effects from you... and it happens to have other utilities as well

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Fordd wrote: »

I agree with basically everything the OP stated. Has ZOS confirmed that purge will be fixed in 1.6?

Yes, we talked to one of the devs a few days ago. Purge fixed in 1.6

Purge is such an essential skill. I am completely baffled why this was not hot fixed. Instead we have to wait till 1.6? Ridiculous.

Indeed, definitely ridiculous a bug that has been in game since day one took this long to fix, even if it took until October/November for it to be discovered... such a game breaking one at that. Not to defend too much, but I do believe it was a particularly challenging problem to fix which probably contributed to why we have had to wait so long. Literally the meta had to shift around not running purge and every *** in PvP runs wall and debuffs galore because you can't run purge without huge risk.

Satiar

Huntler wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Eglath wrote: »

Unfortunately right now, if you don't block or have 1k shield on you, you are dead in no time. Players shouldn't be able to kill each other in 3sec, we need more passive dmg mitigation.
Yes I agree with blocking being nice way, but it's only way atm. As a sorc I have 1 unblockable skill, curse, and very often it's only skill that's actually doing dmg against perma-blockers. So what you've said is correct, it is a problem. And therefore ZOS needs to adress it and give us more survivability outisde of block, especially for ppl without S&B.

Yes they should be able to kill quickly - otherwise remove nb skill tree assasnation and rename it pointless.... like the class

I've always loved this type of mindset that "rogue" players have that they should be able to instant kill people in a video game because reasons.

And I always loved the mindset of people who complain like hell that it's not fair they can be insta killed by something until it's taken away or nerfed. Because reasons, I guess. Apparently only one of those is a legitimate view point, though.

Because it is bad game design in a competetive game to have basically an insta kill outcome where the opposing side under reasonable circumstances (considering solid builds, scenario, etc.) has no chance of reverse kill/defending.

/Answered

Actually that's opinion, and really carries no more weight than someone who believes that a stealthed critical attack should do a lot of damage. One isn't any more valid just because you agree with it. Nor does sarcasm really detract from the idea that if a character class designed around stealth attacks has to take 5-10 hits to kill anyone-- only the first of which will actually be stealthed-- that yes, it kind of makes the whole thing pointless. Especially because those builds tend to be glass cannons.

Nor do is see how being able to survive until you're personally satisfied you've had enough time to kill the other person is simply bad game design, mostly because by "solid build," I'm assuming you don't mean a solid tank with tons of armor, but just whatever build you're currently using.

So not answered.

No its not opinion, its fact. A competetive game has to be fair, one character that can insta gib another in a fair circumstance is bad game design. Stealth characters have always been meant to have an advantage from stealth, not an IWIN scenario because you are stealthed, if you can't see why thats bad game design.... no one will convince you.


Regardless, if you think nightblades are a rogue class entirely and can only be successful from stealth..... then you have no idea how to play a nightblade.

Not to forget that in WoW, a rogue has a cooldown to Vanish and he has to be VERY wise about using it at the right moment.

In this game, you can stealth as much as you can and you can also roll before or teleport to your image to help you out about not getting reveal instantly by aoe damage.

This being said, nightblades has a huge advantage in this game compared to other mmos regarding survivability. I don't think their damage should ALSO be better so they can insta-kill someone.

What advantage are you talking about here?

If you mean cloak, that gets broken by everything under the sun, then think again. That thing is a waste of magicka, and no competitive player would slot it in its current stance.

Apart from that, there's not much skills for survival for NBs. Actually, there aren't much skills made for survivability in the game at all, that aren't damage shields or heals.

As someone who has been playing rogues in RPGs/MMOs for a good dozen years now, I'm fine with not being able to one shot people. What I'm not fine with, is being unable to kill anyone who decides to "play the resource game" and just spam heals or dmg shields until I run out of resources.

I don't want to heal, or spam dmg shields. I don't want to hold block, tanking hordes of players.
I want to be a rogue, utilizing stealth, CC & burst damage, and I want to do that competitively (just like in any other MMO or RPG out there).
It is currently not possible in ESO, and until it is possible, bursting down people in 2-3 seconds is the only way of getting kills.

That said...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Since this is the thread where one can expect answers, what is the status with Shadow cloak & its morphs? Can we expect any fixes in 1.6?
The only stealth skill in game has been broken and nigh useless for good 4-5 months now.

How about the whole stealth gameplay, any new mechanics/skills for that in 1.6 that players enjoying rogue type characters might like?

Hear that nightblades..You shouldn't be slotting Cloak

/facepalm

I would slot it just for the negative effects it removes. I guess some people enjoy DoTs.

Ding ding ding, winner winner tell him what he's won. Many people unfortunately don't realize how useful of a skill that is to not have to run purge or rely on another to clense effects from you... and it happens to have other utilities as well

On my way to tell all the good nightblades to slot oh wait they they're already using it.

Sometimes...

eventide03b14a_ESO

Huntler wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Eglath wrote: »

Unfortunately right now, if you don't block or have 1k shield on you, you are dead in no time. Players shouldn't be able to kill each other in 3sec, we need more passive dmg mitigation.
Yes I agree with blocking being nice way, but it's only way atm. As a sorc I have 1 unblockable skill, curse, and very often it's only skill that's actually doing dmg against perma-blockers. So what you've said is correct, it is a problem. And therefore ZOS needs to adress it and give us more survivability outisde of block, especially for ppl without S&B.

Yes they should be able to kill quickly - otherwise remove nb skill tree assasnation and rename it pointless.... like the class

I've always loved this type of mindset that "rogue" players have that they should be able to instant kill people in a video game because reasons.

And I always loved the mindset of people who complain like hell that it's not fair they can be insta killed by something until it's taken away or nerfed. Because reasons, I guess. Apparently only one of those is a legitimate view point, though.

Because it is bad game design in a competetive game to have basically an insta kill outcome where the opposing side under reasonable circumstances (considering solid builds, scenario, etc.) has no chance of reverse kill/defending.

/Answered

Actually that's opinion, and really carries no more weight than someone who believes that a stealthed critical attack should do a lot of damage. One isn't any more valid just because you agree with it. Nor does sarcasm really detract from the idea that if a character class designed around stealth attacks has to take 5-10 hits to kill anyone-- only the first of which will actually be stealthed-- that yes, it kind of makes the whole thing pointless. Especially because those builds tend to be glass cannons.

Nor do is see how being able to survive until you're personally satisfied you've had enough time to kill the other person is simply bad game design, mostly because by "solid build," I'm assuming you don't mean a solid tank with tons of armor, but just whatever build you're currently using.

So not answered.

No its not opinion, its fact. A competetive game has to be fair, one character that can insta gib another in a fair circumstance is bad game design. Stealth characters have always been meant to have an advantage from stealth, not an IWIN scenario because you are stealthed, if you can't see why thats bad game design.... no one will convince you.


Regardless, if you think nightblades are a rogue class entirely and can only be successful from stealth..... then you have no idea how to play a nightblade.

Not to forget that in WoW, a rogue has a cooldown to Vanish and he has to be VERY wise about using it at the right moment.

In this game, you can stealth as much as you can and you can also roll before or teleport to your image to help you out about not getting reveal instantly by aoe damage.

This being said, nightblades has a huge advantage in this game compared to other mmos regarding survivability. I don't think their damage should ALSO be better so they can insta-kill someone.

What advantage are you talking about here?

If you mean cloak, that gets broken by everything under the sun, then think again. That thing is a waste of magicka, and no competitive player would slot it in its current stance.

Apart from that, there's not much skills for survival for NBs. Actually, there aren't much skills made for survivability in the game at all, that aren't damage shields or heals.

As someone who has been playing rogues in RPGs/MMOs for a good dozen years now, I'm fine with not being able to one shot people. What I'm not fine with, is being unable to kill anyone who decides to "play the resource game" and just spam heals or dmg shields until I run out of resources.

I don't want to heal, or spam dmg shields. I don't want to hold block, tanking hordes of players.
I want to be a rogue, utilizing stealth, CC & burst damage, and I want to do that competitively (just like in any other MMO or RPG out there).
It is currently not possible in ESO, and until it is possible, bursting down people in 2-3 seconds is the only way of getting kills.

That said...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Since this is the thread where one can expect answers, what is the status with Shadow cloak & its morphs? Can we expect any fixes in 1.6?
The only stealth skill in game has been broken and nigh useless for good 4-5 months now.

How about the whole stealth gameplay, any new mechanics/skills for that in 1.6 that players enjoying rogue type characters might like?

Hear that nightblades..You shouldn't be slotting Cloak

/facepalm

I would slot it just for the negative effects it removes. I guess some people enjoy DoTs.

Ding ding ding, winner winner tell him what he's won. Many people unfortunately don't realize how useful of a skill that is to not have to run purge or rely on another to clense effects from you... and it happens to have other utilities as well

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Fordd wrote: »

I agree with basically everything the OP stated. Has ZOS confirmed that purge will be fixed in 1.6?

Yes, we talked to one of the devs a few days ago. Purge fixed in 1.6

Purge is such an essential skill. I am completely baffled why this was not hot fixed. Instead we have to wait till 1.6? Ridiculous.

Indeed, definitely ridiculous a bug that has been in game since day one took this long to fix, even if it took until October/November for it to be discovered... such a game breaking one at that. Not to defend too much, but I do believe it was a particularly challenging problem to fix which probably contributed to why we have had to wait so long. Literally the meta had to shift around not running purge and every *** in PvP runs wall and debuffs galore because you can't run purge without huge risk.

It sure does. Like skipping everything and going straight for the quest goal. I remember how easy it was to collect skyshards. It's an immensely useful skill even if it's not 100% reliable.

Pancake-Tragedy

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Eglath wrote: »

Unfortunately right now, if you don't block or have 1k shield on you, you are dead in no time. Players shouldn't be able to kill each other in 3sec, we need more passive dmg mitigation.
Yes I agree with blocking being nice way, but it's only way atm. As a sorc I have 1 unblockable skill, curse, and very often it's only skill that's actually doing dmg against perma-blockers. So what you've said is correct, it is a problem. And therefore ZOS needs to adress it and give us more survivability outisde of block, especially for ppl without S&B.

Yes they should be able to kill quickly - otherwise remove nb skill tree assasnation and rename it pointless.... like the class

I've always loved this type of mindset that "rogue" players have that they should be able to instant kill people in a video game because reasons.

And I always loved the mindset of people who complain like hell that it's not fair they can be insta killed by something until it's taken away or nerfed. Because reasons, I guess. Apparently only one of those is a legitimate view point, though.

Because it is bad game design in a competetive game to have basically an insta kill outcome where the opposing side under reasonable circumstances (considering solid builds, scenario, etc.) has no chance of reverse kill/defending.

/Answered

Actually that's opinion, and really carries no more weight than someone who believes that a stealthed critical attack should do a lot of damage. One isn't any more valid just because you agree with it. Nor does sarcasm really detract from the idea that if a character class designed around stealth attacks has to take 5-10 hits to kill anyone-- only the first of which will actually be stealthed-- that yes, it kind of makes the whole thing pointless. Especially because those builds tend to be glass cannons.

Nor do is see how being able to survive until you're personally satisfied you've had enough time to kill the other person is simply bad game design, mostly because by "solid build," I'm assuming you don't mean a solid tank with tons of armor, but just whatever build you're currently using.

So not answered.

No its not opinion, its fact. A competetive game has to be fair, one character that can insta gib another in a fair circumstance is bad game design. Stealth characters have always been meant to have an advantage from stealth, not an IWIN scenario because you are stealthed, if you can't see why thats bad game design.... no one will convince you.


Regardless, if you think nightblades are a rogue class entirely and can only be successful from stealth..... then you have no idea how to play a nightblade.

Not to forget that in WoW, a rogue has a cooldown to Vanish and he has to be VERY wise about using it at the right moment.

In this game, you can stealth as much as you can and you can also roll before or teleport to your image to help you out about not getting reveal instantly by aoe damage.

This being said, nightblades has a huge advantage in this game compared to other mmos regarding survivability. I don't think their damage should ALSO be better so they can insta-kill someone.

What advantage are you talking about here?

If you mean cloak, that gets broken by everything under the sun, then think again. That thing is a waste of magicka, and no competitive player would slot it in its current stance.

Apart from that, there's not much skills for survival for NBs. Actually, there aren't much skills made for survivability in the game at all, that aren't damage shields or heals.

As someone who has been playing rogues in RPGs/MMOs for a good dozen years now, I'm fine with not being able to one shot people. What I'm not fine with, is being unable to kill anyone who decides to "play the resource game" and just spam heals or dmg shields until I run out of resources.

I don't want to heal, or spam dmg shields. I don't want to hold block, tanking hordes of players.
I want to be a rogue, utilizing stealth, CC & burst damage, and I want to do that competitively (just like in any other MMO or RPG out there).
It is currently not possible in ESO, and until it is possible, bursting down people in 2-3 seconds is the only way of getting kills.

That said...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Since this is the thread where one can expect answers, what is the status with Shadow cloak & its morphs? Can we expect any fixes in 1.6?
The only stealth skill in game has been broken and nigh useless for good 4-5 months now.

How about the whole stealth gameplay, any new mechanics/skills for that in 1.6 that players enjoying rogue type characters might like?

Hear that nightblades..You shouldn't be slotting Cloak

/facepalm

I would slot it just for the negative effects it removes. I guess some people enjoy DoTs.

Ding ding ding, winner winner tell him what he's won. Many people unfortunately don't realize how useful of a skill that is to not have to run purge or rely on another to clense effects from you... and it happens to have other utilities as well

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Fordd wrote: »

I agree with basically everything the OP stated. Has ZOS confirmed that purge will be fixed in 1.6?

Yes, we talked to one of the devs a few days ago. Purge fixed in 1.6

Purge is such an essential skill. I am completely baffled why this was not hot fixed. Instead we have to wait till 1.6? Ridiculous.

Indeed, definitely ridiculous a bug that has been in game since day one took this long to fix, even if it took until October/November for it to be discovered... such a game breaking one at that. Not to defend too much, but I do believe it was a particularly challenging problem to fix which probably contributed to why we have had to wait so long. Literally the meta had to shift around not running purge and every *** in PvP runs wall and debuffs galore because you can't run purge without huge risk.

It sure does. Like skipping everything and going straight for the quest goal. I remember how easy it was to collect skyshards. It's an immensely useful skill even if it's not 100% reliable.

Some other things cloak is good for:

1. Forcing misses
2. Force-procing Mirage for the off-balanced effect
3. Forcing enemies to send out a search party and never coming close to finding you =p

Poxheart

Grim13 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Cool. I have a couple, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

2) Will there be a fix for charged attacks / gap closers knocking NBs out of Cloak? Is this intended? (these also defeat invisibility potions)

I have tested this gap closers DO NOT knock enemies out of cloak. If the gap closer is triggered before cloak, then the KD or snare will be applied, but no damage is dealt.

Columba

miahq wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Eglath wrote: »

Unfortunately right now, if you don't block or have 1k shield on you, you are dead in no time. Players shouldn't be able to kill each other in 3sec, we need more passive dmg mitigation.
Yes I agree with blocking being nice way, but it's only way atm. As a sorc I have 1 unblockable skill, curse, and very often it's only skill that's actually doing dmg against perma-blockers. So what you've said is correct, it is a problem. And therefore ZOS needs to adress it and give us more survivability outisde of block, especially for ppl without S&B.

Yes they should be able to kill quickly - otherwise remove nb skill tree assasnation and rename it pointless.... like the class

I've always loved this type of mindset that "rogue" players have that they should be able to instant kill people in a video game because reasons.

And I always loved the mindset of people who complain like hell that it's not fair they can be insta killed by something until it's taken away or nerfed. Because reasons, I guess. Apparently only one of those is a legitimate view point, though.

Because it is bad game design in a competetive game to have basically an insta kill outcome where the opposing side under reasonable circumstances (considering solid builds, scenario, etc.) has no chance of reverse kill/defending.

/Answered

Actually that's opinion, and really carries no more weight than someone who believes that a stealthed critical attack should do a lot of damage. One isn't any more valid just because you agree with it. Nor does sarcasm really detract from the idea that if a character class designed around stealth attacks has to take 5-10 hits to kill anyone-- only the first of which will actually be stealthed-- that yes, it kind of makes the whole thing pointless. Especially because those builds tend to be glass cannons.

Nor do is see how being able to survive until you're personally satisfied you've had enough time to kill the other person is simply bad game design, mostly because by "solid build," I'm assuming you don't mean a solid tank with tons of armor, but just whatever build you're currently using.

So not answered.

Common sense indicates that he did answer it. Why should anyone play a character or a game only to be one shot fodder for players who need their god mode skills?

Darlgon

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Hear that nightblades..You shouldn't be slotting Cloak

/facepalm

You did notice he is a Vet 14 NB and talking about how bad NBs are?



I know a level 14 NB in VR 12 gear who can solo resources. No idea what the heck he is talking about. Its definitely more about the person behind the character.

gibous

Cloak means you're still there, just hidden - it doesn't mean your character is removed from the game's physical space and can't get hit by anything. I haven't played NB much but I imagine I'd use it as much as I do BE on my sorc. How is it broken as people are claiming?

Grim13

Poxheart wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Cool. I have a couple, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

2) Will there be a fix for charged attacks / gap closers knocking NBs out of Cloak? Is this intended? (these also defeat invisibility potions)

I have tested this gap closers DO NOT knock enemies out of cloak. If the gap closer is triggered before cloak, then the KD or snare will be applied, but no damage is dealt.

!?

If a gap closer / charged attack starts before Cloak it absolutely knocks you out of it.

It happens to me and I've done it to other people. Yesterday alone, I witnessed numerous instances where my Ambush, Critical Rush, or Lethal Arrow knocked an enemy NB out of Cloak.

Imo, activating Cloak should break the attack.

Edit: OR if that's too much, than at the very least it should NOT reveal you. The NB takes the damage but is still invisible. Same for an Invis Potion.

Darlgon

Grim13 wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Cool. I have a couple, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

2) Will there be a fix for charged attacks / gap closers knocking NBs out of Cloak? Is this intended? (these also defeat invisibility potions)

I have tested this gap closers DO NOT knock enemies out of cloak. If the gap closer is triggered before cloak, then the KD or snare will be applied, but no damage is dealt.

!?

If a gap closer / charged attack starts before Cloak it absolutely knocks you out of it.

It happens to me and I've done it to other people. Yesterday alone, I witnessed numerous instances where my Ambush, Critical Rush, or Lethal Arrow knocked an enemy NB out of Cloak.

Imo, activating Cloak should break the attack.

Edit: OR if that's too much, than at the very least it should NOT reveal you. The NB takes the damage but is still invisible. Same for an Invis Potion.

If I drop a meatbag on your head, the AoE dot will take you out of cloak too. Are you saying you should stay invis? In order for a charge/gap closer to activate, it needs a target. YOU WERE VISIBLE when it was activated, so you are hit based on that instant.

Durham

roechacca wrote: »

OMG if bows were so OP you'd see everyone spamming bows into keeps an taking flags . Well you don't . You see the same DK / Temp / Sorc Gowns on Crown winning every keep assault .

Nope but I see a bow ability in almost every death outside a keep....I see more bow userers jump on oil or single target DPs from the wall when the enemy is on the inner... They tend to select more individual targets.. I see more bow users then anything in PvP....

Grim13

Darlgon wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Cool. I have a couple, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

2) Will there be a fix for charged attacks / gap closers knocking NBs out of Cloak? Is this intended? (these also defeat invisibility potions)

I have tested this gap closers DO NOT knock enemies out of cloak. If the gap closer is triggered before cloak, then the KD or snare will be applied, but no damage is dealt.

!?

If a gap closer / charged attack starts before Cloak it absolutely knocks you out of it.

It happens to me and I've done it to other people. Yesterday alone, I witnessed numerous instances where my Ambush, Critical Rush, or Lethal Arrow knocked an enemy NB out of Cloak.

Imo, activating Cloak should break the attack.

Edit: OR if that's too much, than at the very least it should NOT reveal you. The NB takes the damage but is still invisible. Same for an Invis Potion.

If I drop a meatbag on your head, the AoE dot will take you out of cloak too. Are you saying you should stay invis? In order for a charge/gap closer to activate, it needs a target. YOU WERE VISIBLE when it was activated, so you are hit based on that instant.

Thanks Sherlock.

Did you miss the part where I expressly stated that I think I should stay invisible?

Darlgon

Grim13 wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're gathering a few more questions from this thread to get answers and/or clarification on. In the meantime, know we are still keeping an eye on it.

Cool. I have a couple, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom:

2) Will there be a fix for charged attacks / gap closers knocking NBs out of Cloak? Is this intended? (these also defeat invisibility potions)

I have tested this gap closers DO NOT knock enemies out of cloak. If the gap closer is triggered before cloak, then the KD or snare will be applied, but no damage is dealt.

!?

If a gap closer / charged attack starts before Cloak it absolutely knocks you out of it.

It happens to me and I've done it to other people. Yesterday alone, I witnessed numerous instances where my Ambush, Critical Rush, or Lethal Arrow knocked an enemy NB out of Cloak.

Imo, activating Cloak should break the attack.

Edit: OR if that's too much, than at the very least it should NOT reveal you. The NB takes the damage but is still invisible. Same for an Invis Potion.

If I drop a meatbag on your head, the AoE dot will take you out of cloak too. Are you saying you should stay invis? In order for a charge/gap closer to activate, it needs a target. YOU WERE VISIBLE when it was activated, so you are hit based on that instant.

Thanks Sherlock.

Did you miss the part where I expressly stated that I think I should stay invisible?

Nope. Just hoping your logic flaw was a mistake. Guess it is not.

Subtomik

Grim13 wrote: »

Yes both detect pots and magelight are intended to see through cloak and yes it is ok that one skill is countered by them. Everything in a game should have counters. These are those counters. Magelight in particular is 1 skill slot for 1 skill slot cancelling out. That is the definition really of fairness here.

This question was asked many many months ago and the dev response was that cloak being seen through with pot/magelight was intended (not a bug). Of course I imagine you'll disagree this is fair, but it makes sense IMO.
It's fair when I get a potion to counter Reflective Scales and Bolt Escape... (sarcasm)

There's a difference between countering stealth and countering Cloak.

Magelight countering stealth and Cloak is fine, imo... but that should be the only counter to Cloak... and it's available to everyone already.

Having a potion that counters both stealth and Cloak, and not just stealth like it should (obviously, imo), on top of Magelight is overkill.

---

Anyway, that's beside the point. I'd love to see these questions answered, once and for all, in an official capacity so that all of my NB brethren and I will have something to reference in the future. All in one spot.

I fail to see your complaint about there being more than 1 counter available to each "class defining" ability.

Sorc BE is countered by every gap closer
Templar BOL is countered by every heal debuff including a siege, and every befouled weapon, as well as a myriad of moves.
And currently wings allows heal debuffs to pass through anyway. Not intended I know but they are fixing wings next patch.

Your point about cloak having 2 counters seems pretty silly.