State of the Game -- A Former PVP Guild Lead's Commentary

Grim13

Another personal fave of mine is when tab targeting someone doesn't drop when they stealth or cloak and you can follow the box around even though they, themselves, are invisible.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We agree that block casting is an issue,

Thank you for replying Jessica but I am very concerned about this statement. Why exactly do you "agree" that block casting is an "issue"? It is only an issue for people who are ignorant to what a great mechanic it really is.

Block casting means you CAN'T ATTACK and you can only block for as long as you have STAMINA. There are tradeoffs for block casting. Also ANYONE can do it so it's not like its some unfair advantage to everyone. Please strike this notion that there is something wrong with block casting, there has to be a point where you can see through the illegitimate whining and come to factual conclusions.

If block casting is removed or nerfed then you had better look at ANIMATION CANCELLING also as that is a huge "issue" of the same genre.

Cody

Spot on.

PvP has frustrated me to the point I really don't want to play it anymore. I only log into haderus because I have an obligation to Imortali to devote as much time as I can to PvP. If I was not in this PvP guild, I would have quit PvP a VERY long time ago.

1.The lag is unbearable. As soon as 20+ players collide, the game turns into Microsoft power point. the game was better at BETA. BETA. Games are supposed to improve over time, not get worse. The lag is the first thing that needs to be fixed.

2. Class//ability/build imbalances.
these ridiculous LA perma block DKs running around are really starting to p**** me off. Y'all can call me a QQer or a whiner or a "baddy" all y'all want, but there is no reason one build should be so dominant. This carries into PvE endgame as well. So very few builds are allowed in the endgame dungeons due to class/ability/build imbalance. It needs fixing. I am hoping 1.6 fixes this. The games motto is "play how you want"; this does NOT mean "every build works" However, it also does not mean "one build is dominant. roll it or die" The game needs diversity in the builds used. That is all that needs to be said on build/ability/class imbalance.

3. Armor. HA and MA is so useless in PvP, LA has far better resources management, and due to block and casting(which will be my next point) and the fact one can simply get armor enchants, a player in all LA can be a better tank than a player in all HA. This LA tank would have high offense AND defense. That is absurd and completely unacceptable. There should be balance to the combat, one should have to CHOOSE between high offense and defense, NOT have both.

4. Block and casting.
I despise it, and I would prefer if it was removed completely(and in comes Xsorub, lol) however, the game is built around block casting, so a compromise has to be made. Reduced damage while blocking, something, to make hiding behind your block like a coward the whole fight penalizing(yes, I just called every single perma block build user a coward, because that is how I see them. It is condescending, rude, insulting, and arrogant, but that is simply how I see it. Rage at me all y'all want)

5. The ZOS staff itself.

A little communication with your fan base would be nice. The only time I see the ZOS staff on these forums is when acting as the forum police, rarely ever to inform us of anything. It is pathetic and underwhelming of such a large company. Just something like (our plan is...) would go a long way to alleviate the frustration many of us feel.

There are more reasons, but the wall of text is getting rather large, so I will stop here. hopefully 1.6 has some major fixes, As my, and many others, patience is running out after 9 months of crap.

-Cody

Lava_Croft

Grim13 wrote: »

Another personal fave of mine is when tab targeting someone doesn't drop when they stealth or cloak and you can follow the box around even though they, themselves, are invisible.

This is not true. Going into stealth or cloak drops the target box. It does stay around when the filthy Vampires attempt to flee using Elusive Mist, which is rather nice.

Sypher

Sypher wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

Will we be able to bash/interrupt heavy attacks in 1.6?!?! I don't care about anything else.

Pls. Help. Can you confirm if this was an intended feature that came with 1.5 or a bug?

Xsorus

Cody wrote: »

Spot on.

PvP has frustrated me to the point I really don't want to play it anymore. I only log into haderus because I have an obligation to Imortali to devote as much time as I can to PvP. If I was not in this PvP guild, I would have quit PvP a VERY long time ago.

1.The lag is unbearable. As soon as 20+ players collide, the game turns into Microsoft power point. the game was better at BETA. BETA. Games are supposed to improve over time, not get worse. The lag is the first thing that needs to be fixed.

2. Class//ability/build imbalances.
these ridiculous LA perma block DKs running around are really starting to p**** me off. Y'all can call me a QQer or a whiner or a "baddy" all y'all want, but there is no reason one build should be so dominant. This carries into PvE endgame as well. So very few builds are allowed in the endgame dungeons due to class/ability/build imbalance. It needs fixing. I am hoping 1.6 fixes this. The games motto is "play how you want"; this does NOT mean "every build works" However, it also does not mean "one build is dominant. roll it or die" The game needs diversity in the builds used. That is all that needs to be said on build/ability/class imbalance.

3. Armor. HA and MA is so useless in PvP, LA has far better resources management, and due to block and casting(which will be my next point) and the fact one can simply get armor enchants, a player in all LA can be a better tank than a player in all HA. This LA tank would have high offense AND defense. That is absurd and completely unacceptable. There should be balance to the combat, one should have to CHOOSE between high offense and defense, NOT have both.

4. Block and casting.
I despise it, and I would prefer if it was removed completely(and in comes Xsorub, lol) however, the game is built around block casting, so a compromise has to be made. Reduced damage while blocking, something, to make hiding behind your block like a coward the whole fight penalizing(yes, I just called every single perma block build user a coward, because that is how I see them. It is condescending, rude, insulting, and arrogant, but that is simply how I see it. Rage at me all y'all want)

5. The ZOS staff itself.

A little communication with your fan base would be nice. The only time I see the ZOS staff on these forums is when acting as the forum police, rarely ever to inform us of anything. It is pathetic and underwhelming of such a large company. Just something like (our plan is...) would go a long way to alleviate the frustration many of us feel.

There are more reasons, but the wall of text is getting rather large, so I will stop here. hopefully 1.6 has some major fixes, As my, and many others, patience is running out after 9 months of crap.

-Cody

I don't really get any fps or lag anymore unless it's a Zerg specifically doing it. Probably helps they dropped the population some. Medium armor in general isn't bad right now and is basically required for most stamina builds, I'm hoping heavy armor will be more useful after the patch. In fact I'll be testing a new setup when pts goes live that uses 5 heavy and is specifically designed around the removal of the soft cap on a stat.

As for block casting, you won't be able to remove it unless you either plan on nerfing everyone's damage, or making most of the damage mitigation tied solely to armor types. they have to be extemely careful with changing block casting as it's the only thing right now that allows stamina melee builds to remain competitive to absorb shield builds, it's also mainly used to combat the short cc immunity in this game as well.

Grim13

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Another personal fave of mine is when tab targeting someone doesn't drop when they stealth or cloak and you can follow the box around even though they, themselves, are invisible.

This is not true. Going into stealth or cloak drops the target box. It does stay around when the filthy Vampires attempt to flee using Elusive Mist, which is rather nice.

It is rare... but it does happen.

Poxheart

TheBull wrote: »

How about when you see them activate cloak and they turn red-ish but still can see them

When you see this, that means somebody has used a detect pot. As a NB that uses a lot of detect pots, I'm very familiar with the effect you've described (it essentially looks like a friendly player using cloak).

Sypher

Poxheart wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

How about when you see them activate cloak and they turn red-ish but still can see them

When you see this, that means somebody has used a detect pot. As a NB that uses a lot of detect pots, I'm very familiar with the effect you've described (it essentially looks like a friendly player using cloak).

Okay here's something that bothers me about this...


How come, when you're in stealth (crouched) and someone detects you using mage's light or a detect potion, you're little eye opens up. You know you've been detected, so you can respond to the situation.

But.. on the other hand, when you are in cloak, even if you're detected or not your eye will always stay closed and say "hidden" This makes it hard to actually tell if you're cloak is working or not, which leads to most of the frustration nightblades have.


Get on top of this @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

Morvul

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

With the present restrictions that prevent you from having characters from multiple alliances on one account assigned to the same campaign, we’re at our minimum for Veteran characters at three campaigns (+1 non vet).

I believe 3 campaigns would be fine:
- 1-2 are competetive anyway
- leaving 1-2 potential "buff-servers"

--> since all 3 factions want to have one of those 1-2 buff servers, there WILL be fighting for them

--> problem solved

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

Cody wrote: »

4. Block and casting.
I despise it, and I would prefer if it was removed completely(and in comes Xsorub, lol) however, the game is built around block casting, so a compromise has to be made. Reduced damage while blocking, something, to make hiding behind your block like a coward the whole fight penalizing(yes, I just called every single perma block build user a coward, because that is how I see them. It is condescending, rude, insulting, and arrogant, but that is simply how I see it. Rage at me all y'all want)

I suggest you learn how to play using all of the features in the game, block casting is a valuable tool to ALL classes and it works perfectly fine as intended. Only those who don't know how to take advantage of it want it nerfed because they don't know how to counter it.

It's the same for those who want animation cancelling nerfed. They don't want to take the time to learn how to take advantage of it so they just go on the forums begging for handouts.

Blocking is a very unique part of ESO combat and part of what makes it so great. Block casting is just a gives the combat depth and removing that would make the game more shallow.

trimsic_ESO

They could keep blockcasting in the game provided that:
- The damage mitigation is seriously nerfed when you're not wearing an heavy armor. It's seriously not possible to have people with a light armor mitigate so much damage while hitting so hard with their instant cast spells
- Something is done to the combat mechanics so when you cast a magic spell while blocking you get an extra stamina penalty
- Blocking is no longer 360° wide.

Soris

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Blocking is a very unique part of ESO combat and part of what makes it so great. Block casting is just a gives the combat depth and removing that would make the game more shallow.

LOL what? How come block casting gives such deep combat depth? You just hold block and spam 1-1-1.

Joy_Division

DDuke wrote: »

If you mean cloak, that gets broken by everything under the sun, then think again. That thing is a waste of magicka, and no competitive player would slot it in its current stance.

I hear this all the time.

I rolled a NB and didn't bother to even level up the cloak skill.

When I got to Cyrodiil at level 15 or so, I forgot how powerful vr14 gear is and I kept dying to residual fire ballista damage and other DoTs. One of my guildmates heard my frustrations and told me to slot cloak because it's not just a vanish button but removes the stuff that is killing me. I told him what you quoted above. He basically said that is way overstated, cloak works the vast majority of the time, most good players all slot and use it, and the times it doesn't work is typically by design (it's not a foolproof invisibility or invulnerability).

I then selected the cloak skill and started using it to eliminate negative effects and try to vanish from other players. Ever since, my experience with the skill has been quite positive...I am wearing 5 light armor, I don't have any stealth passives or gear, and I still reliably vanish from enemies I wish not to see/pursue me (and it also cleanses the stuff that is killing me).

I don't doubt there may have been times when NBs have had frustrating experiences with this skill. All I can say for now is that from the times that I have used it that I am glad I had a guildmate who was smart to actually not trust the "cloak sucks" narrative that is so popular on these forums.

Manoekin

faernaa wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Blocking is a very unique part of ESO combat and part of what makes it so great. Block casting is just a gives the combat depth and removing that would make the game more shallow.

LOL what? How come block casting gives such deep combat depth? You just hold block and spam 1-1-1.

I don't think taking it away adds anything, so what's your point? A shield will block the same whether you're wearing any kind of armor TBH. Problem isn't that 1h/s is adding too much mitigation, it's that heavy armor doesn't add enough. I leveled to VR10 with heavy armor because that's how I wanted to play, but had to discard it after realizing the survivability was the same in light armor. Everyone's hate is really misplaced here.

Also people use more than one spell. Not one player in this game uses only one spell, and if a player does it's a healer like me in pvp where 75% or more of my casts are breath of life.

DDuke

Alright, I made just a quick sneak peek on what is wrong with stealth/cloak at the moment. I plan on doing more in-depth video on all different skills later on and with enemy players using them (not NPCs), but this is how things generally work atm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtIXiRmB-y0&feature=youtu.be

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

If you mean cloak, that gets broken by everything under the sun, then think again. That thing is a waste of magicka, and no competitive player would slot it in its current stance.

I hear this all the time.

I rolled a NB and didn't bother to even level up the cloak skill.

When I got to Cyrodiil at level 15 or so, I forgot how powerful vr14 gear is and I kept dying to residual fire ballista damage and other DoTs. One of my guildmates heard my frustrations and told me to slot cloak because it's not just a vanish button but removes the stuff that is killing me. I told him what you quoted above. He basically said that is way overstated, cloak works the vast majority of the time, most good players all slot and use it, and the times it doesn't work is typically by design (it's not a foolproof invisibility or invulnerability).

I then selected the cloak skill and started using it to eliminate negative effects and try to vanish from other players. Ever since, my experience with the skill has been quite positive...I am wearing 5 light armor, I don't have any stealth passives or gear, and I still reliably vanish from enemies I wish not to see/pursue me (and it also cleanses the stuff that is killing me).

I don't doubt there may have been times when NBs have had frustrating experiences with this skill. All I can say for now is that from the times that I have used it that I am glad I had a guildmate who was smart to actually not trust the "cloak sucks" narrative that is so popular on these forums.

Yes, you can use Dark Cloak for purging still, but even for that there are (arguably) better options, such as Efficient Purge/Cleanse.

risen1981

Manoekin wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Blocking is a very unique part of ESO combat and part of what makes it so great. Block casting is just a gives the combat depth and removing that would make the game more shallow.

LOL what? How come block casting gives such deep combat depth? You just hold block and spam 1-1-1.

I don't think taking it away adds anything, so what's your point? A shield will block the same whether you're wearing any kind of armor TBH. Problem isn't that 1h/s is adding too much mitigation, it's that heavy armor doesn't add enough. I leveled to VR10 with heavy armor because that's how I wanted to play, but had to discard it after realizing the survivability was the same in light armor. Everyone's hate is really misplaced here.

Also people use more than one spell. Not one player in this game uses only one spell, and if a player does it's a healer like me in pvp where 75% or more of my casts are breath of life.

Geez dude, step back and think for a sec, block casting is really a gamebreaking mechanic, as it is now you might as well have permablock on... like a toggle.. so i dont hurt my finger while holding down mousebutton (depth to combat? please.. )

How about adding a blockbreak... like the bash, now that would add actual skill to combat and penalizing those permablockers!

The_Man_From_Stygia

OP has some good solid statements and I hope the game designers, PMs and Devs take it seriously

The_Man_From_Stygia

woodsro wrote: »

Agree 100% @Agrippa_Invisus‌

They have Cannibalized PVP into a Dragonknight and Archer dominated game. The upcoming nerf to Scales will be the last nail Lethal Arrow users need to spam their little arrows at range all day long, So i hope folks are ready for whats coming.

You must love the DKs that use bows then, they can shoot you but everything you hit them with comes back at you due to their flappiness. One thing to remember is anyone can use a bow, I know a sorc that uses lethal arrows . Perhaps I haven't found the trick to using lethal arrow as effectively as your opponents since the majority of the people I hit with it are able to get out of it and escape just fine even though I have two sets worth of weapon dmg increases and increases to weapon crit. I suppose I haven't found the trick to it yet.

Poxheart

DDuke wrote: »

Alright, I made just a quick sneak peek on what is wrong with stealth/cloak at the moment. I plan on doing more in-depth video on all different skills later on and with enemy players using them (not NPCs), but this is how things generally work atm:

I gave you a LOL because testing against NPC guards is laugh worthy. The NPC guards don't play by the same rules as human controlled characters. I think you're going to be in for a surprise when you test the skill against actual players.

DDuke

Poxheart wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Alright, I made just a quick sneak peek on what is wrong with stealth/cloak at the moment. I plan on doing more in-depth video on all different skills later on and with enemy players using them (not NPCs), but this is how things generally work atm:

I gave you a LOL because testing against NPC guards is laugh worthy. The NPC guards don't play by the same rules as human controlled characters. I think you're going to be in for a surprise when you test the skill against actual players.

Well, wait for part 2 then (today or tomorrow). Same things happen against enemy players as well (projectiles & melee attacks breaking stealth, your own DoTs breaking stealth), as I stated in the video.

Regardless, it shouldn't happen against NPCs either, so I'm not sure why you thought my post was funny, or why you think I'm inventing things and/or lying (frankly, that is quite offending)

Grim13

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Block casting means you CAN'T ATTACK and you can only block for as long as you have STAMINA.

That's actually the opposite of what block casting is. Block Casting is when you can cast while blocking... attack while defending.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

I block casting is a valuable tool to ALL classes and it works perfectly fine as intended.

Zos disagrees (in this very thread):

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We agree that block casting is an issue

..Hell, you responded to this very quote!

Manoekin

risen1981 wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Blocking is a very unique part of ESO combat and part of what makes it so great. Block casting is just a gives the combat depth and removing that would make the game more shallow.

LOL what? How come block casting gives such deep combat depth? You just hold block and spam 1-1-1.

I don't think taking it away adds anything, so what's your point? A shield will block the same whether you're wearing any kind of armor TBH. Problem isn't that 1h/s is adding too much mitigation, it's that heavy armor doesn't add enough. I leveled to VR10 with heavy armor because that's how I wanted to play, but had to discard it after realizing the survivability was the same in light armor. Everyone's hate is really misplaced here.

Also people use more than one spell. Not one player in this game uses only one spell, and if a player does it's a healer like me in pvp where 75% or more of my casts are breath of life.

Geez dude, step back and think for a sec, block casting is really a gamebreaking mechanic, as it is now you might as well have permablock on... like a toggle.. so i dont hurt my finger while holding down mousebutton (depth to combat? please.. )

How about adding a blockbreak... like the bash, now that would add actual skill to combat and penalizing those permablockers!

I have thought about it. Block casting will be a thing unless they rework how pve content works, or make shield mitigation passive and not activated. People think it's only a pvp issue. What if your trial tank needs to cast taunt, and the boss hits him with a crit attack and one shots him while his shield is down to cast the taunt? Should the tank let the boss kill someone else to avoid being hit by the attack while taunting?

Even so, in pvp it's going to be impossible to permablock in 1.6. You all will just have to wait and see the patch notes or hope it gets mentioned in this thread... The direction they're going in is the right direction imo.

TheBull

DDuke wrote: »

Alright, I made just a quick sneak peek on what is wrong with stealth/cloak at the moment. I plan on doing more in-depth video on all different skills later on and with enemy players using them (not NPCs), but this is how things generally work atm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtIXiRmB-y0&feature=youtu.be
{/quote]

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌
@ZOS_GinaBruno‌
@ZOS_GaryA‌
@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌
@ZOS_MattFiror‌

Anyone? Update please This does not look like "All attacks having a 100% chance to miss for 2.9 seconds"

TheBull

DDuke wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Alright, I made just a quick sneak peek on what is wrong with stealth/cloak at the moment. I plan on doing more in-depth video on all different skills later on and with enemy players using them (not NPCs), but this is how things generally work atm:

I gave you a LOL because testing against NPC guards is laugh worthy. The NPC guards don't play by the same rules as human controlled characters. I think you're going to be in for a surprise when you test the skill against actual players.

Well, wait for part 2 then (today or tomorrow). Same things happen against enemy players as well (projectiles & melee attacks breaking stealth, your own DoTs breaking stealth), as I stated in the video.

Regardless, it shouldn't happen against NPCs either, so I'm not sure why you thought my post was funny, or why you think I'm inventing things and/or lying (frankly, that is quite offending)

I have about 8 clips of mine own with projectiles breaking cloak V people. Your vids look much better though.

Poxheart

Nowhere in the tooltip for dark cloak does it say that the ability gives 100% chance to miss.

frozywozy

Manoekin wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Blocking is a very unique part of ESO combat and part of what makes it so great. Block casting is just a gives the combat depth and removing that would make the game more shallow.

LOL what? How come block casting gives such deep combat depth? You just hold block and spam 1-1-1.

I don't think taking it away adds anything, so what's your point? A shield will block the same whether you're wearing any kind of armor TBH. Problem isn't that 1h/s is adding too much mitigation, it's that heavy armor doesn't add enough. I leveled to VR10 with heavy armor because that's how I wanted to play, but had to discard it after realizing the survivability was the same in light armor. Everyone's hate is really misplaced here.

Also people use more than one spell. Not one player in this game uses only one spell, and if a player does it's a healer like me in pvp where 75% or more of my casts are breath of life.

I kinda agree about this. The part I agree with is that HA and S&B are two different problems. They need to buff up HA in a first time, and then, like I mentionned in other posts before, make it so using S&B reduces your overall damage done by 20%.

TheBull

Poxheart wrote: »

Nowhere in the tooltip for dark cloak does it say that the ability gives 100% chance to miss.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There is still a 100% miss chance for projectiles on Dark Cloak. If you're encountering something that seems otherwise, we'd like to hear more details, please (possibly even a video, would be helpful).

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Alright, I'll synch up my dignity and head back into Cyrodiil with my Fraps running. XD

Thanks so much, Alien. For what it's worth, what you're reporting should not be the case, so it's just a matter of narrowing down what's happening.

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/131862/nightblade-cloak-even-worse-than-before/p1http://

Joy_Division

DDuke wrote: »

Alright, I made just a quick sneak peek on what is wrong with stealth/cloak at the moment. I plan on doing more in-depth video on all different skills later on and with enemy players using them (not NPCs), but this is how things generally work atm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtIXiRmB-y0&feature=youtu.be

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

If you mean cloak, that gets broken by everything under the sun, then think again. That thing is a waste of magicka, and no competitive player would slot it in its current stance.

I hear this all the time.

I rolled a NB and didn't bother to even level up the cloak skill.

When I got to Cyrodiil at level 15 or so, I forgot how powerful vr14 gear is and I kept dying to residual fire ballista damage and other DoTs. One of my guildmates heard my frustrations and told me to slot cloak because it's not just a vanish button but removes the stuff that is killing me. I told him what you quoted above. He basically said that is way overstated, cloak works the vast majority of the time, most good players all slot and use it, and the times it doesn't work is typically by design (it's not a foolproof invisibility or invulnerability).

I then selected the cloak skill and started using it to eliminate negative effects and try to vanish from other players. Ever since, my experience with the skill has been quite positive...I am wearing 5 light armor, I don't have any stealth passives or gear, and I still reliably vanish from enemies I wish not to see/pursue me (and it also cleanses the stuff that is killing me).

I don't doubt there may have been times when NBs have had frustrating experiences with this skill. All I can say for now is that from the times that I have used it that I am glad I had a guildmate who was smart to actually not trust the "cloak sucks" narrative that is so popular on these forums.

Yes, you can use Dark Cloak for purging still, but even for that there are (arguably) better options, such as Efficient Purge/Cleanse.

Your tests are against NPCs. I don't agree with the game's philosophy, but from my experience NPCs can auto-detect stealthers.

I am unsure of the relationship between invisibility and damaging opponents. Most RPGs do not like this combination and I am curious as to what the developers have said about it.

I also will say I do not use Dark cloak for purge, but I use it for its intended function: to escape. More often than not, it succeeds. Not all the time, but most of it. A NB that cloaks 20 meters away from a human target will reliably evade detection. The only other class that can evade determines pursuit is the sorcerer because of bolt escape.

That being said, if a NB tries to cloak when she is 5 meters away from me in flat, featureless terrain, then the expectations for success are noticeably less. Much less so if I am part of a posse of 4-6 players determined to find them. But is this because cloak is a "waste of magicka," or because I can immediately investigate the potential hiding places via magelight, detection pots, or random AoEs?

Roechacca

Let's assume for a moment that stealth is working correctly and as intended in game ....


Now let's have a good laugh reflecting on that moment .