Champion System Clarification

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi everyone,

As many of you know, the Champion System is designed to be a replacement for the Veteran System. Internally, we have been implementing and testing the Champion System for the last few months. During that iteration time we’ve learned a lot. This changed some of our intended launch goals for the system. Specifically of concern is the number of Champion Points earned before the system launches. Here are four of the most salient points with regards to the number of Champion Points earned when we launch phase 3 with Update 6 and the reasons for the change:

1. The system needs to be integrated in phases, leaving the Veteran Ranks in place for phase 3.
   
   Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.
   
   
2. The system should give more value for each point spent than originally conceived.
   
   A second thing we learned is that each Champion Point needs to have more impact on the stats it is altering than originally planned. This came up frequently in our internal feedback sessions. Responding to that feedback, we decreased the number of overall points in the system (14,400 to 3,600), but kept the range of what they could alter the same. Because each point is more valuable there are less points overall in the system. Thus we can’t give out as many points with the introduction of the system as originally believed.
   
   
3. The system has to account for relative power values of the game.
   
   We had to start narrowing down on the variables for our content in the game. Because we are changing many of the abilities and base factors in the gameplay, we needed to start with less of a variance in player power to achieve a good introduction of the system. Or more simply, the more points we give out now, the harder it is to find a good place between various balance points: PvP, overland content, Veteran Content, Craglorn, Dungeons, Trials, etc…
   
   
4. The system shouldn’t separate players more.
   
   This is pretty self-explanatory, and is related to the first point. While the system is meant to have built in safeguards against players pulling away from each other too dramatically – those systems aren’t in currently. A 1-to-1 XP conversion to Champion XP was too dramatic.

Also, when phase 3 of the Champion System goes live with Update 6, all accounts that have at least one Veteran Rank character on them will automatically receive 30 Champion Points. These 30 Champion Points, though applied to your account, are distributed in full to each individual character on your account, just as Champion Points you earn are. So, if you have 5 characters, at least one of which is Veteran Rank 1 or higher, all five of those characters will have 30 CP to spend. You will not be awarded more Champion Points for having five Veteran Characters versus just one. You will also be able to begin earning Champion Points on any Veteran Rank character from that point forward.

We feel confident that our current solution is better for the enjoyment of the game overall than our originally announced design. This comes from weeks of testing the system. While iterating on solutions and changing the design is a normal and necessary part of the game making process, we definitely understand how changes to a system like this can be frustrating and seem to come from nowhere.

That said, we’re going to continue to be open about our plans and designs for the future of ESO. While a change in development like this can be frustrating, it isn’t a reason for us to not communicate. We never intend to mislead, but sometimes even our best ideas just don’t work out once they get into the game. We feel the Champion System is still going to be a fun way for you to keep customizing your character to suit your tastes and specializing in ways that make you unique. We’re looking forward to you giving it a trial run on the PTS, and sending us your feedback.

xMovingTarget

So what about "we track xp". This will make many many ppl mad.

Gyudan

While, I'm glad you took the time to explain all this, I can't help but feel cheated of the time I spent progressing my characters over hundreds of hours.

I'll be pondering whether to keep my subscription or not.

Elloa

Once the Veteran ranks are removed from the game (PH4), will players receive a compensation for having several Veteran characters, or for simply have gained more experience overall?
Basically will players receive the fruit of their "work"?

yodased

Ok, so now you have facts. Let the rage ensue.

Emencie

xMovingTarget wrote: »

So what about "we track xp". This will make many many ppl mad.

Gyudan wrote: »

While, I'm glad you took the time to explain all this, I can't help but feel cheated of the time I spent progressing my characters over hundreds of hours.

I'll be pondering whether keeping my subscription or not.

I do not understand this reaction. They outright said you are not losing your VR14 ranks, skills, attributes or even gear.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists.

How do you feel cheated? You will still be as powerful as you ever were compared to a VR5, a VR1 or a level 34 character.

Guppet

xMovingTarget wrote: »

So what about "we track xp". This will make many many ppl mad.

Not as many as you think!

Ruben

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

So, if you have 5 characters, at least one of which is Veteran Rank 1 or higher, all five of those characters will have 30 CP to spend. You will not be awarded more Champion Points for having five Veteran Characters versus just one.

Awww

I guess this is not just an arbitrary limit, so let's just enjoy the game.

xMovingTarget

Guppet wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

So what about "we track xp". This will make many many ppl mad.

Not as many as you think!

Almost every single VR14 i know

If you seem to happen to be vr1 or 2 you should be happy. Cause you get rewarded. Everybody else not!

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

The 30 points are NOT a balance. Those of us who completed all the veteran solo quests because we were told the XP would count towards champ points now are at a huge disadvantage compared to a V1 just entering Caldwells silver.

One month after 1.6 those who followed your advice will begin to fall far behind those who didn't because solo content is a FINITE quantity in your game and once its used up it never comes back.

So those quest xp is lost because we were told they would count.

Slurg

Thank you for the clear explanation, Gina. I appreciate that you guys are being thoughtful about the changes and considering your whole player base and not just the elite ones.

You mention that veteran ranks aren't going away yet but it sounds like this is still planned for some future update after the details are determined. I hope that some kind of compromise can be worked out to reward people who have already reached max level without separating the player base too drasticly.

Leijona

Maybe you should think twice about what exactly you tell us in the future. You didn't say "We will try to track your XP and maybe we will give players veteran points according to their XP." You said you will track our XP and that we don't need to worry when we continue to play or veteran characters.

I guess, if you didn't told us you would track our XP and assured us so confidentially, that we should continue our higher veteran characters, many of us would have thought about continue to play them. But therefor we wouldn't be so disappointed now because of what you told us.

Enaijo

They have assured us many times, for months and again and again that we will be rewarded for every single XP we gain after V1, with champion points. They assured us ... and it was a lie. They could have said, that they are not sure, they are looking into it ... but no, they don't.

The result? I have finished nearly all quests, because, again, they assured us they will track our XP and we will get champion points accordingly. And now? I'm forced to twink or grind mobs for champion points. Sorry, but that's just crap.

It was the same with the points for the undaunted ...

We are punished for playing the game after V1, that's a shame.

Gilvoth

i have completed a HUGE amount of content that is NON-repeatable, when the champion system is in full swing i will not be able to gain new champion points because i allready completed the quests in all 3 alliances.
this gives freedom for others to get the points earned but i will NOT be able to gain the champion points because i allready completed the matterial and quests?
and you know what, that to me looks like you just told me you dont care.
or perhaps i am misunderstanding this?
because from where i stand as a v14 character with no other characters, it looks to me like i basicly have to restart the entire game after 8 months of dedicated work to be able to be competetive in pve and PvP.

is this true?

WraithAzraiel

Emencie wrote: »

How do you feel cheated? You will still be as powerful as you ever were compared to a VR5, a VR1 or a level 34 character.

To answer your question, "How do you feel cheated?":

The announcements given prior to this past ESO Live, inferred/implied/damn near flat out told us that we should continue playing the game after hitting Max Level, that our activities and the XP garnered from said activities were being recorded in the background up to a certain CAP, to bestow us with equivalent reward for the amount of effort expended in the form of Champion Points.

Here's the rub:

Everyone with a V1 Character gets 30 Champion Points. Flat. No matter how much work someone put in to push their characters, to get the most bang for their buck, the most reward for their effort.

What they're saying is, "Hey we know you broke your ass leveling and dungeoneering and running trials but we're going to go ahead and give everyone the same reward, regardless if those people put in the work, just to be fair and communist err I mean balanced."

Yet another example where the concept of "risk vs reward" escapes them.

That's how people feel cheated. They had the rug yanked out from under them. There was no transparency, no warning, just BLAM "Oh hey all that work you did, all those hours you spent playing and killing and questing, we're only counting 30 of them. Sorry! (sucks to be you, you could've stopped playing your alts at V1 and you would've gotten the same reward, *** HA HA!)"

It's not a question of power, it's an understanding that the time spent wasn't worth it. And ergo, was wasted.

Enaijo

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

That's how people feel cheated. They had the rug yanked out from under them. There was no transparency, no warning, just BLAM "Oh hey all that work you did, all those hours you spent playing and killing and questing, we're only counting 30 of them. Sorry! (sucks to be you, you could've stopped playing your alts at V1 and you would've gotten the same reward, *** HA HA!)"

It's not a question of power, it's an understanding that the time spent wasn't worth it. And ergo, was wasted.

So true ... and know what? They have done the same with the new undaunted-skills. Will they do the same with new skills for the mages guild? No reward for lorebooks we already collected?

It's a shame, really ... I love the game, but that ... is a shame. I've never seen another developer treating the players that way.

WraithAzraiel

Slurg wrote: »

Thank you for the clear explanation, Gina. I appreciate that you guys are being thoughtful about the changes and considering your whole player base and not just the elite ones.

You mention that veteran ranks aren't going away yet but it sounds like this is still planned for some future update after the details are determined. I hope that some kind of compromise can be worked out to reward people who have already reached max level without separating the player base too drasticly.

(DISCLAIMER: The below rant is meant to be humorous, take it as such)

So everyone should get a trophy just for showing up to the game? These so-called "elite ones" USED to be the motivation behind lower-level players going out and experiencing the game, finding ways to become better at what they chose to do.

And now that everyone is "perfect just the way they are" there's no incentive for improvement. Mediocrity is okay!

This line of thought is what's wrong with the world today. That whole, Dr. Spock, don't hit your children, reason with tantrum-throwing 2 year olds and make everyone feel speeeeecial and appreciated and warm and cozy and setting them up for failure in the cold harshness of the real world where thin skin equals death and failure.

GET OFF MY LAWN....and stuff.


(DISCLAIMER: The above rant is meant to be humorous, take it as such)


But yea no, on a serious note. It's not elitism, it's the whole concept of why bother putting in the work if everyone's getting the same damn prize? Where's the incentive to go the extra mile?

Unknown_poster

e Veteran Rank character on them will automatically receive 30 Champion Points. These 30 Champion Points, though applied to your account, are distributed in full to each individual character on your account, just as Champion Points you earn are. So, if you have 5 characters, at least one of which is Veteran Rank 1 or higher, all five of those characters will have 30 CP to spend. You will not be awarded more Champion Points for having five Veteran Characters versus just one. You will also be able to begin earning Champion Points on any Veteran Rank character from that point forward.

Pretty clear. If you have been here since the beginning, have put in the time, you won't be getting any more at the start than if you started two weeks before it goes live and managed to get to vr1. While many of you seem to think this is a big bowl of ice cream I offer the following analogy. If you have a bowl of ice cream with a minute speck of feces in it, it is still ice cream with feces in it. I haven't played my characters in more than a month other than to log in when I was bored and collect crafting mails because I was sure they were going to pull some switch like this. For me the bait and switch tactics every single patch are enough. I don't need to play a game that makes me feel frustrated and that my time and effort towards progression of my characters can be wiped out to appeal to the unwashed masses to throw money at a broken system. I have at the time of this writing around 15 days of sub time left. I had some good times, but the market is a buyers one, and I choose to vote economically.

Bouvin

I don't agree that "leveling the playing field" is fair to people who have progressed past VR1 or have multiple VR characters.

You're essentially saying "All of the Extra XP you've earned is now useless and we're taking it away."

DDuke

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

That said, we’re going to continue to be open about our plans and designs for the future of ESO.

Could you then please let us know what your plans and designs are for the core gameplay in PvP?

Currently damage shields and heals are everywhere in PvP and every competitive build has to use them to stay competitive, yet we learn from ESO Live that even more are coming (even to common activities, such as drinking potions or resurrecting people), and even stamina builds are getting a heal (because obviously you become a dual wielding assassin or 2H warrior to heal people...).

Is this intentional design, that everyone should run around as a "healer tank dps" and use those means in PvP, and is anything being done to make other playstyles not revolving around healing or shielding viable?

I have made a thread carefully explaining this on further detail under the general discussion category, it would be nice to atleast know people playing pure DPS characters aren't forgotten.

Link to the thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/143544/champion-system-its-implications-on-build-diversity

Bouvin

Enaijo wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

That's how people feel cheated. They had the rug yanked out from under them. There was no transparency, no warning, just BLAM "Oh hey all that work you did, all those hours you spent playing and killing and questing, we're only counting 30 of them. Sorry! (sucks to be you, you could've stopped playing your alts at V1 and you would've gotten the same reward, *** HA HA!)"

It's not a question of power, it's an understanding that the time spent wasn't worth it. And ergo, was wasted.

So true ... and know what? They have done the same with the new undaunted-skills. Will they do the same with new skills for the mages guild? No reward for lorebooks we already collected?

It's a shame, really ... I love the game, but that ... is a shame. I've never seen another developer treating the players that way.

Exactly! You'll be "forced" to roll an alt to get that XP.

Whatever happened to "play how you want to play". People with VR14 characters are essentially going to be forced to roll Alts just to "keep up" with people who may have just hit VR1 prior to Champion system.

Emencie

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

To answer you question, "How do you feel cheated?":

The announcements given prior to this past ESO Live, inferred/implied/damn near flat out told us that we should continue playing the game after hitting Max Level, that our activities and the XP garnered from said activities were being recorded in the background up to a certain CAP, to bestow us with equivalent reward for the amount of effort expended in the form of Champion Points.

Here's the rub:

Everyone with a V1 Character gets 30 Champion Points. Flat. No matter how much work someone put in to push their characters, to get the most bang for their buck, the most reward for their effort.

What they're saying is, "Hey we know you broke your ass leveling and dungeoneering and running trials but we're going to go ahead and give everyone the same reward, regardless if those people put in the work, just to be fair and communist err I mean balanced."

Yet another example where the concept of "risk vs reward" escapes them.

That's how people feel cheated. They had the rug yanked out from under them. There was no transparency, no warning, just BLAM "Oh hey all that work you did, all those hours you spent playing and killing and questing, we're only counting 30 of them. Sorry! (sucks to be you, you could've stopped playing your alts at V1 and you would've gotten the same reward, *** HA HA!)"

It's not a question of power, it's an understanding that the time spent wasn't worth it. And ergo, was wasted.

Wasn't the reward for finishing all that content the levels, gear and gold you got for running that content?

Is everyone here missing that they are making these changes in phases.

I feel like no one understands that ZOS agrees that people who are Vet14 should be more powerful than a Vet1 and so with 1.6 you still are! The CP to XP conversion is not happening right now because...

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.

Do you all really think that a VR1 + 30CP will be equivalent to a VR14+30CP?

When we get our CP per XP there will be no more vet levels. That isn't happening yet. Phases.

Yandros

There are 3,600 possible points.
Anyone with a VR1 or above on their account, regardless of the number of other VR characters, will start with a total of 30 points to spend on all characters
VR1 or VR14 makes no difference to your starting points

People want recognition within the Champion System for being at different levels, given the additional XP they have gained (and cant regain)

What I don't understand is how it could be so broken at the start if there is a difference in CP's for different VR levels, given that there are a possible 3,600 points available. It does not have to be a big difference, just something, and if you were to approach it so that it recognized the VR level and number of Alts at VR ranks, people would see it as more representative of the game time they have put in.

Even something like:
VR character on account +30
each additional VR character +1 per VR rank
Total MAX anyone could have would be 128 (if you had 8xVR14 characters)

I would say there is a serious problem with this CP system going forward, if giving someone 128 starting points vs 30 points is going to create game balance issues, considering there are 3,600 points to be obtained eventually.

Elsonso

While it is possible that there will be compensation in Phase 4 for XP earned prior to Phase 3, it looks like the VRs got the shaft, at least for now. Totally unexpected.

Ah, well, at least I don't have to do Cadwell anymore. I can put the VR1 back on the shelf and finish getting my other 2 up to Level 50.

Gyudan

@ZOS_GinaBruno: At this point, do you (or does the Champion System team) think that the following statements are normal?

- I will be able to progress faster in the Champion System if I delete my VR14 character to make room for another VR1 that will be able to quest.
- Any content done between this instant and the release of the Champion System will not bring me any progression whatsoever.
- Any non-repeatable content that I do between this instant an the released of the Champion System will be forever lost and will actually reduce my ability to progress later on.

To make it simple: If I stop playing and delete my characters, I will have more potential progress than I have now.

I remember back in March/April, when the first players rushed through everything to be the very first at Level 50 and then VR10. The devs were apparently following them closely and enjoyed the interest that "hardcore" gamers had put into their game. Personally, while I don't grind myself, I was still looking up to them.
It is funny to see that the few dedicated players that you have left are the ones that you are targeting with this decision. Those are the ones that you ask for feedback in Sanctum Ophidia or DSA Veteran, that stream dynamic PVP fights, that test content on the PTS, that challenge your own ability to create content by pushing the ceiling always further and provide you with elaborate inputs on the systems that you designed. Those are your most dedicated fans and you are dismissing their input as if it didn't matter.

I think that a few months/years from now, you will remember today as the day the train started going off the rails. Or maybe not, I'm just a silly player after all.

eventide03b14a_ESO

I think it's worth asking what exactly is the goal at this point for my main? This is a problem that I encountered before with this game when I feel it's in a sort of limbo. This feeling is happening too frequently for a game that isn't even a year old yet. Essentially the only way I can see to improve my character right now is to run trials, but I can only run those a couple times a day before I'm burnt out. The Undaunted quests are usually just frustrating with PUG groups and the loot is never something I have been excited about. I am almost loathe to go back and do any quests that grant another trophy to clog my inventory up.

Because of the horrible inventory management, terrible loot drops in PvE, and bad lag in PvP, I am starting to lose motivation to play. Playing the game means I often spend more time breaking stuff down and managing my bank and sales items or running around attempting to harvest enough flowers to craft potions with. Or debugging which of my addons is causing the problem of the day from the recent update.

I have also accepted that the game is a hell of a lot easier to play than I initially would have wanted. This is indisputable. It essentially amounts to using light armor, a staff and the best AoE spell you can find along with a good ultimate and holding down block. I wish that I could be as successful with Bows or DW but the truth is that neither of those has the AoE output to be as effective. If the devs really want to improve the game they need to get rid of animation cancelling in all it's forms, remove block casting, and remove the AoE cap.

I can't remember the last time I was excited to loot something. Anything worth while to loot requires a whole set and that means either repeatedly grinding the same content or if your lucky and have the patience track it down in the hopes that someone might be selling it for a reasonable price.

Luckily I picked up Dragon Age Inquisition and while playing it, I can't help but wish that ESO was more more like it. I realize that as an MMO it has more limitations, but DAI is just stunning. The character animations alone even when running and jumping make it so immersive. There isn't any "floaty" feeling to the game when your character runs, jumps, slides down a hill or even uses their weapons. There is a distinct feeling like your character is part of and belongs to the environment. Sadly in ESO it doesn't feel that way.

So for now I play DAI and log in once a day to collect my mats. At least I'll have enough mats for upgrades if I decide to actually commit to playing the game again.

Guppet

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Thank you for the clear explanation, Gina. I appreciate that you guys are being thoughtful about the changes and considering your whole player base and not just the elite ones.

You mention that veteran ranks aren't going away yet but it sounds like this is still planned for some future update after the details are determined. I hope that some kind of compromise can be worked out to reward people who have already reached max level without separating the player base too drasticly.

(DISCLAIMER: The below rant is meant to be humorous, take it as such)


This line of thought is what's wrong with the world today. That whole, Dr. Spock, don't hit your children, reason with tantrum-throwing 2 year olds and make everyone feel speeeeecial and appreciated and warm and cozy and setting them up for failure in the cold harshness of the real world where thin skin equals death and failure.

Form you own "comedy" rant -

reason with tantrum-throwing 2 year olds and make everyone feel speeeeecial and appreciated.

The behaviour of certain individuals over this past weekend has very much been that of tantrum-throwing 2 year olds.

There are many of us that will loose out with this, (massively in my case) and we don't throw around threats of quitting. Anyone not understanding that this is being done for the good of the game and its long term viability, needs to take a break for a bit and calm down.

Merrak

And now I won't do any content on my NB until after 1.6. Gotta have some way to earn back the Champion Points I won't be able to get on my main now.

WraithAzraiel

Emencie wrote: »

Wasn't the reward for finishing all that content the levels, gear and gold you got for running that content?

Absolutely not, did you miss the part where I said ZOS hasn't mastered the whole "Risk vs Reward" concept yet?

They've been making progress though; since launch they've increased the amount of gold you get for quests. But the item rewards are still abysmal.

For instance, one of the quests on the Dominion starter island gives you a heavy armor chest piece. Which is great if you're playing a character that is using and will continue to use heavy armor. Not so much if you're playing a light armored mage or a medium armored thief or any such combination.

They could be better, there could be options for quest rewards like other games in the past have had.

"Congratulations, you completed "BLAH BLAH" quest! Please choose from reward X Y or Z, remember you can only choose 1 reward! Enjoy!"

But no, it's "Here, take this thing you probably won't use and get out of here, I'm busy."

This game is friggin AMAZING and still stands to be so much more than it is. It has all the potential to blow every other game out of the water. And I will forever be playing in hopes that I will one day see it rise to the position it deserves.

But it's got some work to do along the way.

Rune_Relic

Emencie wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

To answer you question, "How do you feel cheated?":

The announcements given prior to this past ESO Live, inferred/implied/damn near flat out told us that we should continue playing the game after hitting Max Level, that our activities and the XP garnered from said activities were being recorded in the background up to a certain CAP, to bestow us with equivalent reward for the amount of effort expended in the form of Champion Points.

Here's the rub:

Everyone with a V1 Character gets 30 Champion Points. Flat. No matter how much work someone put in to push their characters, to get the most bang for their buck, the most reward for their effort.

What they're saying is, "Hey we know you broke your ass leveling and dungeoneering and running trials but we're going to go ahead and give everyone the same reward, regardless if those people put in the work, just to be fair and communist err I mean balanced."

Yet another example where the concept of "risk vs reward" escapes them.

That's how people feel cheated. They had the rug yanked out from under them. There was no transparency, no warning, just BLAM "Oh hey all that work you did, all those hours you spent playing and killing and questing, we're only counting 30 of them. Sorry! (sucks to be you, you could've stopped playing your alts at V1 and you would've gotten the same reward, *** HA HA!)"

It's not a question of power, it's an understanding that the time spent wasn't worth it. And ergo, was wasted.

Wasn't the reward for finishing all that content the levels, gear and gold you got for running that content?

Is everyone here missing that they are making these changes in phases.

I feel like no one understands that ZOS agrees that people who are Vet14 should be more powerful than a Vet1 and so with 1.6 you still are! The CP to XP conversion is not happening right now because...

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.

Do you all really think that a VR1 + 30CP will be equivalent to a VR14+30CP?

When we get our CP per XP there will be no more vet levels. That isn't happening yet. Phases.

Amen. Someone actually gets it.
You are STILL V14 or whatever character you are.
You have lost nothing...nil ...zilch.
All thats happened is every Vet gets 30 points.

IF/WHEN they remove the VET system AND you dont get compensated.
THEN scream all you like!

Elsonso

I am somewhat surprised that no one noticed that Gina posted that whole long thing and never once did it actually answer the question that everyone was asking.

Maybe someone else noticed it and just missed it.

When I go on about how they cannot communicate, and laugh when they say things like, "That said, we’re going to continue to be open about our plans and designs for the future of ESO," this is what I mean. How could they possibly write all that without even answering the question?