Champion System Clarification

Rune_Relic

Sublime wrote: »

This is how I read the post:

Since veteran ranks are still in place, players who are at V14 still have their power, which they gained throught progression, so giving them additional CSP with 1.6 would give the additional ressources without giving anything (the VR bonuses) up. Once they remove the veteran ranks and all veteran characters become equally strong, the high level characters will be rewarded for their effort.

You're shouting in the wind.... noones listening

timidobserver

This is the exact same thing that was said in the interview just with more words. I can't understand how people were confused about any of those points. She enunciated each of them very clearly in the interview.

DanielMaxwell

manny254 wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

This is how I read the post:

Since veteran ranks are still in place, players who are at V14 still have their power, which they gained throught progression, so giving them additional CSP with 1.6 would give the additional ressources without giving anything (the VR bonuses) up. Once they remove the veteran ranks and all veteran characters become equally strong, the high level characters will be rewarded for their effort.

Except as I said before this method would double credit anyone who leveled between phases 3 and 4. To them its absurd to credit us once. So I doubt they would stand for double crediting.

if they are planning to convert the "tracked XP" in phase four , I would hope they have enough sense to stop tracking it at the launch of phase 3 , since in phase 3 you start earning champion system points.

manny254

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

This is how I read the post:

Since veteran ranks are still in place, players who are at V14 still have their power, which they gained throught progression, so giving them additional CSP with 1.6 would give the additional ressources without giving anything (the VR bonuses) up. Once they remove the veteran ranks and all veteran characters become equally strong, the high level characters will be rewarded for their effort.

Except as I said before this method would double credit anyone who leveled between phases 3 and 4. To them its absurd to credit us once. So I doubt they would stand for double crediting.

if they are planning to convert the "tracked XP" in phase four , I would hope they have enough sense to stop tracking it at the launch of phase 3 , since in phase 3 you start earning champion system points.

I also hope they have that much sense, but I have become doubtful.

DanielMaxwell

manny254 wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

This is how I read the post:

Since veteran ranks are still in place, players who are at V14 still have their power, which they gained throught progression, so giving them additional CSP with 1.6 would give the additional ressources without giving anything (the VR bonuses) up. Once they remove the veteran ranks and all veteran characters become equally strong, the high level characters will be rewarded for their effort.

Except as I said before this method would double credit anyone who leveled between phases 3 and 4. To them its absurd to credit us once. So I doubt they would stand for double crediting.

if they are planning to convert the "tracked XP" in phase four , I would hope they have enough sense to stop tracking it at the launch of phase 3 , since in phase 3 you start earning champion system points.

I also hope they have that much sense, but I have become doubtful.

just don't hold your breath on them doing that

WraithAzraiel

Guppet wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

To answer you question, "How do you feel cheated?":

The announcements given prior to this past ESO Live, inferred/implied/damn near flat out told us that we should continue playing the game after hitting Max Level, that our activities and the XP garnered from said activities were being recorded in the background up to a certain CAP, to bestow us with equivalent reward for the amount of effort expended in the form of Champion Points.

Here's the rub:

Everyone with a V1 Character gets 30 Champion Points. Flat. No matter how much work someone put in to push their characters, to get the most bang for their buck, the most reward for their effort.

What they're saying is, "Hey we know you broke your ass leveling and dungeoneering and running trials but we're going to go ahead and give everyone the same reward, regardless if those people put in the work, just to be fair and communist err I mean balanced."

Yet another example where the concept of "risk vs reward" escapes them.

That's how people feel cheated. They had the rug yanked out from under them. There was no transparency, no warning, just BLAM "Oh hey all that work you did, all those hours you spent playing and killing and questing, we're only counting 30 of them. Sorry! (sucks to be you, you could've stopped playing your alts at V1 and you would've gotten the same reward, *** HA HA!)"

It's not a question of power, it's an understanding that the time spent wasn't worth it. And ergo, was wasted.

Wasn't the reward for finishing all that content the levels, gear and gold you got for running that content?

Is everyone here missing that they are making these changes in phases.

I feel like no one understands that ZOS agrees that people who are Vet14 should be more powerful than a Vet1 and so with 1.6 you still are! The CP to XP conversion is not happening right now because...

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.

Do you all really think that a VR1 + 30CP will be equivalent to a VR14+30CP?

When we get our CP per XP there will be no more vet levels. That isn't happening yet. Phases.

Amen. Someone actually gets it.
You are STILL V14 or whatever character you are.
You have lost nothing...nil ...zilch.
All thats happened is every Vet gets 30 points.

IF/WHEN they remove the VET system AND you dont get compensated.
THEN scream all you like!

You fail to understand the point behind preemptive screaming. If you make enough of a stink about it, they'll think twice about allowing the failure of compensation to come to pass.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.....

Now that is encouraging people to throw tantrums!

Contradiction is the beauty of humanity. Or something like that [insert deep philosophical things here]

Hope all of you and your's are having a happy holiday season!

Yo *** *** and a bottle of rum! Wait that's not Christmas.....it's better! DRUNKMAS! Go forth and imbibe!

Enodoc

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

1. The system needs to be integrated in phases, leaving the Veteran Ranks in place for phase 3.
   
   Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.
   [...]
   Also, when phase 3 of the Champion System goes live with Update 6, all accounts that have at least one Veteran Rank character on them will automatically receive 30 Champion Points. These 30 Champion Points, though applied to your account, are distributed in full to each individual character on your account, just as Champion Points you earn are. So, if you have 5 characters, at least one of which is Veteran Rank 1 or higher, all five of those characters will have 30 CP to spend. You will not be awarded more Champion Points for having five Veteran Characters versus just one. You will also be able to begin earning Champion Points on any Veteran Rank character from that point forward.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Based on the above statement, please could you categorically confirm whether or not the following is still valid: (source)

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We have been tracking Experience gains past maximum Veteran Rank on accounts in preparation for the Champion System.

Also

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

4. The system shouldn’t separate players more.

Then how will you be accounting for the fact that a new VR1 player has the entire of Cadwell's quests to gain CPs from, whereas a V10+ who has completed them does not have that source of CPs, meaning that a VR1 is likely to gain CPs faster and pull away from a VR14, resulting in player separation?

Averya_Teira

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

So... your October post about XP being tracked was a huge lie then ? I won't bother looking for it because you most probably deleted it so people cannot quote it, but I have read it and this is an outrage.

I don't even have a VR14 character so this doesn't even affect me and I find this disgusting.

You specifically said we could continue to play our characters, that XP was being tracked, that we wouldn't loose any XP once champion system has launched.

ZOS is beginning to smell a lot like Trion with the lie and bait strategies... and I wish you take it as a HUGE insult, because it is.

EQBallzz

This is pretty sad news but also still not very clarifying. It sounds like you are going back on your word to convert XP to CP and track XP gain over V14 for conversion into the CP system. Can someone please explain this?

@ZOS_GinaBruno - If XP is not being tracked or converted then what reason does any vet player now have to keep playing until CP system goes live? You are just wasting your XP potential for the CP system if this is true.

@ZOS_GinaBruno - If nothing is being given to those who have 1, 2 or more max level characters already when CP system goes live then what activity does ZOS envision players doing to earn CP if they are not into PvP and don't want to grind on mobs endlessly? Are you now going to be encouraging a mob grinding strategy to fully access the CP system?

@ZOS_GinaBruno can you or someone please address these concerns? I have already quit playing my characters because I only have Craglorn left on one of my two vet level characters so it's a waste to work on those quests and waste XP at this point.

I am also canceling my account and won't be resubbing unless I see some clarification that makes some sense. Not because I don't like ESO or the coming changes to the game. I think the game is largely heading in the right direction but I have already completed the entire silver/gold content completely two full times and I really don't feel like deleting characters and starting over to get proper access to the champ system. I'm also not going to grind mobs endlessly to make up for the lost XP so there really aren't any good options for me unless I'm mistaken in how this is working which is why I'm asking for clarification. Please give us some clarification.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

lordrichter wrote: »

I am somewhat surprised that no one noticed that Gina posted that whole long thing and never once did it actually answer the question that everyone was asking.

Maybe someone else noticed it and just missed it.

When I go on about how they cannot communicate, and laugh when they say things like, "That said, we’re going to continue to be open about our plans and designs for the future of ESO," this is what I mean. How could they possibly write all that without even answering the question?

Nope, you're correct -- she did not answer the question.

People want to know whether or not ZOS has reneged upon the October assurance that XP was being tracked for champion points to be awarded upon implementation. That's a yes-or-no answer.

Doesn't matter if it comes in Phase 3 or Phase 4 -- we need to know whether or not it's coming, period, so we know the time and effort we invested in this game was not wasted.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, we need to know. More importantly, the rest of the gaming community needs to know whether or not "incidentally misleading" your players is business SOP at Zenimax. ZOS needs to think more about their loyal players than the hypothetical, future players. Those future players are going to read/hear a lot of bad reviews from a lot of angry former players who resent having their loyalty rewarded with the proverbial "finger" from ZOS. Do something for loyal players other than breaking promises and eating up our inventory space with useless vanity pets.

Think long and hard about the potential fallout, here -- this isn't like the *presumed* XP reimbursement for the Undaunted passives. This is Zenimax reneging upon an *explicit* assurance that XP would be tracked and rewarded for the Champion System. People have run a lot of unrepeatable content -- again, time and effort invested in this game -- based upon that assurance. There will be a huge loss of confidence by the gaming community at large if ZOS shafts the people who have been supporting this second development cycle since PC release.

Very few people are gullible enough to believe it's just a happy coincidence that the October announcement (XP will be tracked for CP) kept thousands of people subscribed. Yep, just a happy coincidence that the announcement kept us players placated, expecting, subscribed, and paying while ZOS did what they should have done prior to April 2014.

ZOS already used up all the "TES Franchise Loyalty" momentum when the PC version launched. Console release will rely almost exclusively upon how well the PC version has been received. ZOS won't have any "future players" to prioritize over loyal players if the PC version does a Hindenburg months prior to even announcing a console release date. It's not rocket science to draw a straight line between the act of reneging on the assurance that XP was being tracked for Champion Points -- ZOS earning a reputation for shafting (deceiving?) their players -- and the console release falling flat on its face.

Sublime

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

This is how I read the post:

Since veteran ranks are still in place, players who are at V14 still have their power, which they gained throught progression, so giving them additional CSP with 1.6 would give the additional ressources without giving anything (the VR bonuses) up. Once they remove the veteran ranks and all veteran characters become equally strong, the high level characters will be rewarded for their effort.

You're shouting in the wind.... noones listening

Probably.

But I hadn't read this aspect yet, so I thought I might as well note it down.

DanielMaxwell

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

As many of you know, the Champion System is designed to be a replacement for the Veteran System. Internally, we have been implementing and testing the Champion System for the last few months. During that iteration time we’ve learned a lot. This changed some of our intended launch goals for the system. Specifically of concern is the number of Champion Points earned before the system launches. Here are four of the most salient points with regards to the number of Champion Points earned when we launch phase 3 with Update 6 and the reasons for the change:

1. The system needs to be integrated in phases, leaving the Veteran Ranks in place for phase 3.
   
   Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.
   
   
2. The system should give more value for each point spent than originally conceived.
   
   A second thing we learned is that each Champion Point needs to have more impact on the stats it is altering than originally planned. This came up frequently in our internal feedback sessions. Responding to that feedback, we decreased the number of overall points in the system (14,400 to 3,600), but kept the range of what they could alter the same. Because each point is more valuable there are less points overall in the system. Thus we can’t give out as many points with the introduction of the system as originally believed.
   
   
3. The system has to account for relative power values of the game.
   
   We had to start narrowing down on the variables for our content in the game. Because we are changing many of the abilities and base factors in the gameplay, we needed to start with less of a variance in player power to achieve a good introduction of the system. Or more simply, the more points we give out now, the harder it is to find a good place between various balance points: PvP, overland content, Veteran Content, Craglorn, Dungeons, Trials, etc…
   
   
4. The system shouldn’t separate players more.
   
   This is pretty self-explanatory, and is related to the first point. While the system is meant to have built in safeguards against players pulling away from each other too dramatically – those systems aren’t in currently. A 1-to-1 XP conversion to Champion XP was too dramatic.

Also, when phase 3 of the Champion System goes live with Update 6, all accounts that have at least one Veteran Rank character on them will automatically receive 30 Champion Points. These 30 Champion Points, though applied to your account, are distributed in full to each individual character on your account, just as Champion Points you earn are. So, if you have 5 characters, at least one of which is Veteran Rank 1 or higher, all five of those characters will have 30 CP to spend. You will not be awarded more Champion Points for having five Veteran Characters versus just one. You will also be able to begin earning Champion Points on any Veteran Rank character from that point forward.

We feel confident that our current solution is better for the enjoyment of the game overall than our originally announced design. This comes from weeks of testing the system. While iterating on solutions and changing the design is a normal and necessary part of the game making process, we definitely understand how changes to a system like this can be frustrating and seem to come from nowhere.

That said, we’re going to continue to be open about our plans and designs for the future of ESO. While a change in development like this can be frustrating, it isn’t a reason for us to not communicate. We never intend to mislead, but sometimes even our best ideas just don’t work out once they get into the game. We feel the Champion System is still going to be a fun way for you to keep customizing your character to suit your tastes and specializing in ways that make you unique. We’re looking forward to you giving it a trial run on the PTS, and sending us your feedback.

the bolded section I believe answers the question about the October promise from ZOS . It is not the answer that some want , but I could be wrong so a clarification from @ZOS_GinaBruno would be helpful(or hurtful) for the community

EQBallzz

No it doesn't answer the question. Not being able to give out as many points as they thought has nothing to do with using a conversion system for XP to CP. If they need to adjust that number down then that is one thing but removing it completely is entirely different and needs further explanation for those of us who kept playing and wasting the precious little vet XP we had left to do.

DanielMaxwell

It does if the 30 points are the max they feel can be given while maintaining some semblance of balance at the start of the new champion system . That is why I said a clarification from @ZOS_GinaBruno would be helpful(or hurtful) for the community .

LonePirate

There is no doubt in mind that the fixed amount of 30 Champion Points for all VR characters regardless of level is due to PVP. If you have ever tried to level a skill in PVP, you will realize how fast that can happen sometimes, even for average players.

Now consider the fact that there are numerous skilled VR14 players who can rack up more XP in a few hours of PVP than a typical player can acquire during a full day of PVE. When you extrapolate that over several months from XP was first tracked, be it 1.3 or 1.4, then you are looking at VR14 players with hundreds, if not 1000+ (maybe even 2000+) CPs when the system launches. That is a significant number for a system with 3600 points total.

The outrage from lower level players would be tremendous if they received 30 points for bring VR1 while a VR14 received 1500, for example. There is no way the VR1 would ever be able to catch up (reasonably) with the Champion Point stats of the VR14 as was discussed on the ESO Live show. Which is the better path for ZOS to follow?

That being said, the flat rate of 30 Champion Points for all VR players simply sucks. I fully understand wanting to keep players reasonably close; but that is not how how you do so while rewarding effort for previously earned XP. ZOS knows how much XP one CP is worth (and soon we will know it also thanks to add-ons). Whatever the value is, ZOS should take it and divide it into the 1M XP needed for each VR level. So, if 1 CP = 50,000 XP, then each VR level is worth 20 CP. A VR5 character should receive an additional 80 CP. A VR14 should receive an additional 260 CP.

That sort of tiered reward system, while still hosing VR14 characters like myself who reached VR14 the very first day 1.4 went live and who has been doing PVP and Cyrodiil quests almost daily since then, would at least give some sort of compensation for played time. It may not be ideal but it is certainly better than this job ZOS is pulling on us now.

Lancillotto

All this Champion system stuff sounds good, but when Veteran Ranks will be removed, what happens to VR14 characters? i.e., what does a VR14 get that a VR1 doesn't? will all the XP accumulated by a VR14 disappear and make a VR1=VR14?

manny254

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

It does if the 30 points are the max they feel can be given while maintaining some semblance of balance at the start of the new champion system . That is why I said a clarification from @ZOS_GinaBruno would be helpful(or hurtful) for the community .

You know at some point today there was a zos meeting where they all looked at each other like...

f**k

DanielMaxwell

manny254 wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

It does if the 30 points are the max they feel can be given while maintaining some semblance of balance at the start of the new champion system . That is why I said a clarification from @ZOS_GinaBruno would be helpful(or hurtful) for the community .

You know at some point today there was a zos meeting where they all looked at each other like...

f**k

that was good for a chuckle , thanks

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

LonePirate wrote: »

There is no doubt in mind that the fixed amount of 30 Champion Points for all VR characters regardless of level is due to PVP. If you have ever tried to level a skill in PVP, you will realize how fast that can happen sometimes, even for average players.

Now consider the fact that there are numerous skilled VR14 players who can rack up more XP in a few hours of PVP than a typical player can acquire during a full day of PVE. When you extrapolate that over several months from XP was first tracked, be it 1.3 or 1.4, then you are looking at VR14 players with hundreds, if not 1000+ (maybe even 2000+) CPs when the system launches. That is a significant number for a system with 3600 points total.

The outrage from lower level players would be tremendous if they received 30 points for bring VR1 while a VR14 received 1500, for example. There is no way the VR1 would ever be able to catch up (reasonably) with the Champion Point stats of the VR14 as was discussed on the ESO Live show. Which is the better path for ZOS to follow?

That being said, the flat rate of 30 Champion Points for all VR players simply sucks. I fully understand wanting to keep players reasonably close; but that is not how how you do so while rewarding effort for previously earned XP. ZOS knows how much XP one CP is worth (and soon we will know it also thanks to add-ons). Whatever the value is, ZOS should take it and divide it into the 1M XP needed for each VR level. So, if 1 CP = 50,000 XP, then each VR level is worth 20 CP. A VR5 character should receive an additional 80 CP. A VR14 should receive an additional 260 CP.

That sort of tiered reward system, while still hosing VR14 characters like myself who reached VR14 the very first day 1.4 went live and who has been doing PVP and Cyrodiil quests almost daily since then, would at least give some sort of compensation for played time. It may not be ideal but it is certainly better than this job ZOS is pulling on us now.

That's a valid point about PvP and XP gain, however, the announcement in October that XP would be tracked and translated into CP upon implementation of the Champion System also said there would be a cap to the max amount of points that would be awarded upon implementation. That way, the players who have monstrous amounts of XP would still not dramatically outpace the other players with different play-styles.

All ZOS has to do to fix this is keep their word. Tell players there will be a cap (maybe 10% of the total number of achievable Champion Points, so 360) and that Champion Points will be awarded to accounts like they promised on a gradient scale based on earned XP. That way, ZOS keeps their word and nobody is dramatically "separated" from each other.

That's what they said they were going to do, and quite frankly, not one thing @ZOS_GinaBruno said in her post explains why they cannot do it that way.

Reneging on what they told players *explicitly* would be the case because they'll have some hard math to do... I have, precisely, zero sympathy for their situation because it was self-imposed. They told us XP would be tracked for CP. We didn't ask them to tell us that (right when people were starting to gravitate to OTHER games, incidentally) and now, we want ZOS to make good on their word.

I'm already shopping online for Dragon Age. If this truly is the final word on this matter from ZOS, consider me unsubscribed. I'm tired of being jerked around, and I have better things to do than to pay a monthly fee for the privilege of being lied to.

EQBallzz

Yep. It's time for a Champion System Clarification Clarification.

LonePirate

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

That's a valid point about PvP and XP gain, however, the announcement in October that XP would be tracked and translated into CP upon implementation of the Champion System also said there would be a cap to the max amount of points that would be awarded upon implementation. That way, the players who have monstrous amounts of XP would still not dramatically outpace the other players with different play-styles.

I have no problems with a cap, regardless of what it is. However, I have a problem with ZOS rewarding someone who has done nothing in the Champion System up until now (let's say a brand new VR1 player) at the same level they are rewarding someone who has been VR14 for four months now.

If ZOS wants to implement a low cap of 30, that's fine. Give each level from VR1 to VR14 2 CPs each and then tack on 2 more CPs for VR14s who have earned a sufficient amount of XP. That solves the problem with this flat reward and allows ZOS to implement a brand new rule set once the system goes live.

As it stands now, ZOS is extending its middle finger towards every player who is above a newly minted VR1 with some additional salt in the wound for long term VR14s. I would be surprised if more than a handful of current VR10+ players approve of this horrible decision.

Winnower

If you have the patience you can do this:

1. don't level any vet characters at all until the champion system is fully implemented, or at least until phase 4 and you can see what is going to happen.

2. level your vet characters and do quests and stuff knowing that you are losing out on potential experience for the next several months until at least phase 4 is implemented and you can see more about what is going on

if you pick #1, you can do it by leveling alts or you can go away for a few months, or you can do some serious social roleplaying. Yeah.

I've already heard half a dozen people *today* who are long term serious players who are canceling their 6-month subscriptions and going away to do something else. These are people in well known guilds who have contributed long and hard to this game and who have even been asked their opinions by ZoS previously.

luckily for me I'm an altaholic.

But for a lot of people I wish would stick around it's starting to sound like:

nails in a coffin
nails in a coffin

Darkonflare15

I knew this from the beginning. This outrage does not concern me because I have not been playing the game as much for the past couple months because it has been boring. I still going to stay subscribed because I use a credit card to pay for the subscription and I get points that I use to pretty much pay for the game itself.

I just wait for the champion system like I have been doing because it seems like things will be interesting when this comes out. Until then, I will be playing Halo MCC, Sunset Overdrive, Killer Instinct, and Dragon Age Inquisition single player and multi player like I had been doing for awhile now. So I happy to see the new changes next year.

Gilvoth

hahaha ok i get it now, haha, this was just a test, the developers wanted to see how loyal we really are to eso.
the devs wanted to play a christmas joke on us.
eso dev's arent realy this ... out of touch

right?

Grunim

EQBallzz wrote: »

Yep. It's time for a Champion System Clarification Clarification.

From the movie Brazil, "My complication had a little complication."

manny254

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

hahaha ok i get it now, haha, this was just a test, the developers wanted to see how loyal we really are to eso.
the devs wanted to play a christmas joke on us.
eso dev's arent realy this ... out of touch

right?

That is what I thought when that guy talked about sorcs. I understand he was playing a different build of the game, but he should not try to ruin his own credibility.

smacx250

@ZOS_GinaBruno - thank you for clarifying how phase 3 will roll out. I'm inclined to think that the direction does make sense as an introduction to the CP point system - with one caveat. When veteran ranks are removed in phase 4, there should be some CP reward with respect to the "lost" ranks.

I won't suggest any particular formula, but it should strike a balance between not causing lost character progression and not overly advancing characters. I'm inclined to think that CP for XP is the right metric for the exchange, though quite possibly not on an account wide basis (e.g., only consider the max XP character in an account). Clearly such a move should be made in order to prevent a regression of a character's ability to complete content - something that was stated in ESO Live. Also, such an award should likely consider the CP gained between the introduction of phase 3 and phase 4, so as not to ultimately disadvantage higher level characters as of phase 4 that had gained significant XP before the CP awards were instituted in phase 3.

The sooner any such plans can be communicated, the sooner these types of threads can die down, and everyone can go back to playing how they would like, instead of thinking about how to work around the "30 CP issue".

Elsonso

manny254 wrote: »

You know at some point today there was a zos meeting where they all looked at each other like...

f**k

That meeting happened before today.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

All ZOS has to do to fix this is keep their word. Tell players there will be a cap (maybe 10% of the total number of achievable Champion Points, so 360) and that Champion Points will be awarded to accounts like they promised on a gradient scale based on earned XP. That way, ZOS keeps their word and nobody is dramatically "separated" from each other.

That's what they said they were going to do, and quite frankly, not one thing @ZOS_GinaBruno said in her post explains why they cannot do it that way.

Reneging on what they told players *explicitly* would be the case because they'll have some hard math to do... I have, precisely, zero sympathy for their situation because it was self-imposed. They told us XP would be tracked for CP. We didn't ask them to tell us that (right when people were starting to gravitate to OTHER games, incidentally) and now, we want ZOS to make good on their word.

I'm already shopping online for Dragon Age. If this truly is the final word on this matter from ZOS, consider me unsubscribed. I'm tired of being jerked around, and I have better things to do than to pay a monthly fee for the privilege of being lied to.

Gina's prepared press release got a little closer than ESO Live did, but in failing to answer the question, it left everything almost exactly where it was immediately after the show.

They still have not stated that they are changing their stance on the earned Vet XP.

There are number of ways to do this where they can keep their word and not overflow the system, or at least limit the overflow. They may even be able to rescue some players before they leave the building.

They could simply say that ONE Veteran Rank character, the one with the most XP, decides the Champion Points that player will get. It would still annoy people, but it would address the Alternate problem.

They could cap it at Veteran Rank 14 and say that you get the lesser of what a single VR 14 character would get or the sum total of all that your VR characters would get. This would allow alternates, but would limit how much power they have.

They can also adjust the exchange rate. Right now, it seems that a CP in Update 6 is worth 400,000 Vet XP, representing about 4 hours of play. (Don't laugh!) They could simply say 1 CP = 1 VR and so the maximum any player could have is 8 characters x 14 Veteran Ranks. That would be 112 CP, so they could mix it with either of the above to bring it down to 14, if they wanted.

If the exchange CP is larger than 30, they could fold the 30 reward CP into this by saying that you get the LARGER of the 30 Champion Points or what you would normally get in exchange. That would guarantee 30 for everyone, minimum, while still allowing for variation among existing players.

I understand why they would want to limit separation, but separation between players is important for all of the game systems. Otherwise, why have people been playing? There had better be some separation in the game between what used to be a VR14 and what used to be a VR1. It had better be a separation that is worth of the effort spent to get a VR14. If they can do this outside of the Champion System, somehow, and make it seem worth it, great.

My trust in them is completely tanked.

I own Dragon Age and will never go back. I am picking up a copy of Guild Wars 2 because I hear good things about it.

I cannot unsubscribe since I did that already. In May. The last time my trust in them tanked I was gone from the game for 3 months. Now I pay with time cards.

Rosveen

I understand why using a flat rate is a fair solution when veteran ranks are still in place. However, when you phase out veteran ranks in 1.7 (or whenever it happens), you need to reward people with CP proportionally to their rank. If you don't, it will render all our progression beyond VR1 utterly meaningless in a system where a brand new VR1 character is worth exactly the same as VR14. You want to start off with a level playing field, but rolling back our XP isn't the way to do it. Nobody is asking for hundreds of champion points; even just one per rank would be better than not having our level recognized at all. If you're worried that values below or near 100 CP will create a huge divide between players... well, then I question the soundness of the whole system, because what will happen down the line when older and newer players are thousands of points apart?

Vonovosi

[quote="Gyudan;1437236
To make it simple: If I stop playing and delete my characters, I will have more potential progress than I have now.
quote]
This is what was afraid of. ZOS has stated repeatedly that they want us to feel like we have a sense of accomplishment for our actions in-game and feel a connection to our characters . I do feel a connection to the characters i've created and that's why I am so upset by this announcement. If all I was interested in was grinding, I would just delete my VR alts and grind new ones to lvl 50 for the launch of the system and it's no big deal. Unless there is some way to compensate players for their VR ranks previously earned (need not be in full or at one time) the entire system will be a joke. If there is such a system planned ZOS is doing a terrible job in sharing it with the community.
I do not want to take my vr14 that I completed all quests with out to grind CP because there is no other content available. At this point it looks like that is all ZOS is offering. All those shiny new buffs are not going to make a lot of difference when I have such a limited amount of content that I am interested in doing at this point. All I have to look forward to is grinding (which I hate) and whatever bugs the justice system will bring to the game.