Champion System Clarification

drschplatt

Well, after reading this post, I guess I'll just not resub until the update comes out. There's really no point in playing if you aren't advancing anything. I wish I had known this 4 months ago when my first toon hit VR1, I would have parked them and saved 40 bucks on subscribing while waiting for the Champion system to come out. As it stands now, my highest VR toon will be at a HUGE disadvantage because there simply aren't any more quests to do to earn exp.

kungmoo

This may get deleted, but after some digging I found the post I was looking for....

last bit at the bottom is of particular note

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

We are hard at work on it and I’m here to answer a few of your questions. Most of these questions were also asked during our Guild Round Table in the last two days.

How will the current system change when the Champion System gets introduced?

The Champion System will introduce new past lvl 50 progression for your account where previously there was only an increase in Veteran Ranks and Attributes. The Champion System allows you spend points in the constellations to earn powerful passives such as giving your bash a chance to snare targets, reduce the amount of damage you take from flames or leech health on critical strikes.


What happens to the Veteran Ranks we currently have VR1-12?

We want to remove the Veteran Ranks from the game and rely on the more active progression provided by the Champion System. However, when we release the Champion System we will continue to maintain Veteran Ranks. We have several options as to how we will remove Veteran Ranks but all of them require time and careful planning. In the meantime, we are making Veteran Ranks earned by XP and reducing the overall time it takes to get a Veteran Rank. We are also rewarding an Attribute Point and a Skill Point each time you reach a Veteran Rank.


What happens to the Skill Points from VR1-12? Are they carried over to the CS instead?

The Skill Points we reward will not be removed from you! You will continue to have the same amount of Skill Points you do now. The Champion System does not reward any Skill Points, only gaining Veteran Ranks does. When we take out Veteran Ranks we will make sure that anyone that didn't make it max Veteran Rank will still rewarded with those Skill Points.


Does everyone that is a Veteran Rank get lowered back to lvl50? Or are the Ranks staying, but only being changed to lvl 51, 52, etc instead?

Similar to an answer before, we just don’t know yet.


Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

doesn't get much clearer than that I would say....

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1303290/#Comment_1303290

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

Ok... I've decided that, until I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume ZOS deliberately lied to us in October when they assured us that XP would be tracked for Champion Points.

Consider when ZOS told us to keep playing because they were tracking XP. It was early October: new games were coming out, there was very little new content on the horizon, players were losing reasons to stay with ESO, and were unsubscribing to play the aforementioned new games. Had ZOS kept hemorrhaging subscriptions through the winter, then they might not have been able to FUND the development of the Champion and Justice Systems. So they fed us a LIE to keep us around (and paying).

I have NO reason to think otherwise.

I, for one, certainly did stick around and kept playing because I *thought* I was earning Champion Points. And yes, there are other games that I would have played instead of ESO over the last ten weeks, had I not been told my time and effort would pay off when the new system was implemented. ZOS fed us that bull**** about tracking XP to keep us from unsubscribing.

And the kicker is they *know* they're screwing us. That's why they won't give us a straight answer.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Just so I understand they are not removing VR ranks with 1.6 correct?

kungmoo

no they are not removing vr ranks with 1.6

Darkonflare15

So I guess leveling vet 14 was a waste of time. Lets list all of the things that was a waste of time.

• Researching gear
• Having fun
• Getting Stronger gear
• Having more Attribute points
• Having more Skill Points
• Gaining cool titles
• Fighting strong monsters
• Playing with friends
• Playing with Strangers
• Gaining xp for skills
• Gaining xp to level up
• Playing the story
• Learning how to play
• Crafting
• Completing Dolmens
• Completing Dungeons
• Gaining a lot of gold
• Travel to cool places
• Learning what is going on in each alliances
• Finding rare gear
• Get new dyes
• Theory crafting with new builds
• Trying out new skill combinations
• Taking Screenshots and share to the community
• Testing new stuff on the PTS
• Making my build work
• Changing my dyes on my armor so it can look good
• Trading goods
• Hording crafting goods
• Selling things I do not want
• Chatting with guild mates
• Playing the game

All of things is what people consider a waste of time. I thought the point of playing a game is to play the game. The reason why most game developers do not like to disclose info about the game is because if they state something that does not make it to the final build. People will outrage. So far I have not been able to try this new content and every player complain that it was pointless to level up the character but I thought that leveling a character is part of the reward of playing the game not this champion point fiasco everybody getting mad about.

Now everybody keep asking some the same questions even though they pretty mcuh know the answer.

@ZOS_GinaBruno I have a good question: If it takes roughly one hour to get one champion point but this is base off of xp, How does this work ? You can gain a lot of xp by questing and I can gain more xp faster than questing by grinding but if it takes about an hour to get a champion point there must be some other factor in gaining a champion point. If you can clear this up maybe, just maybe, this can help people cope with this problem.

Ruben

Thinking that they lied is a bit dumb. Changes are to be expected when they have been planning and testing this for so long. They didn't lie, they made a miscalculation and what they promised is no longer optimal, it seems.

If they really wanted to lie and not lose subs they wouldn't have said anything about this more than one month before it is even in the live server.

Let's be rational, guys.

EQBallzz

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

It does if the 30 points are the max they feel can be given while maintaining some semblance of balance at the start of the new champion system . That is why I said a clarification from @ZOS_GinaBruno would be helpful(or hurtful) for the community .

No. It doesn't. The question is whether they are still planning to convert XP to CP in some way at some time (either in phase 3 or 4). If they give everyone 30 points that is not taking anyone's earned XP into account and that means they are not doing what they said they were doing which encouraged players to keep playing and not fear losing out on their character progression.

WraithAzraiel

One thing I am really getting tired of is the wordsmithing of clarification posts generating more questions that it does give answers.

We don't need long drawn out complex explanations. Short, sweet, to the point. No excuses, if a mistake was made, own up to it - don't explain it away with convoluted paragraphs. We know you guys are human, we understand mistakes will be made. We understand that sometimes, things need to change. Factor's that once were, are no longer. Things change.

We got it. Just talk to us like we're people.

EQBallzz

Ruben wrote: »

Thinking that they lied is a bit dumb. Changes are to be expected when they have been planning and testing this for so long. They didn't lie, they made a miscalculation and what they promised is no longer optimal, it seems.

If they really wanted to lie and not lose subs they wouldn't have said anything about this more than one month before it is even in the live server.

Let's be rational, guys.

A miscalculation would require an adjustment. Not completely removing the conversion entirely. They said they reduced the points and made them more powerful..so reduce the conversion ratio by that much. At least it's still giving people *something* for all the XP that was lost while they plowed through vet content *at the direction of ZOS* and now won't have that XP any more for the CP system.

They should keep their word and nothing they have explained gives any logical excuse for why they can't still do that...they don't have to give the same amount of points they originally planned but giving everyone 30 CP equally regardless of XP gained is completely disregarding the max level players that have used up the most XP-rich content in the game.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

So I guess leveling vet 14 was a waste of time. Lets list all of the things that was a waste of time.

• Researching gear
• Having fun
• Getting Stronger gear
• Having more Attribute points
• Having more Skill Points
• Gaining cool titles
• Fighting strong monsters
• Playing with friends
• Playing with Strangers
• Gaining xp for skills
• Gaining xp to level up
• Playing the story
• Learning how to play
• Crafting
• Completing Dolmens
• Completing Dungeons
• Gaining a lot of gold
• Travel to cool places
• Learning what is going on in each alliances
• Finding rare gear
• Get new dyes
• Theory crafting with new builds
• Trying out new skill combinations
• Taking Screenshots and share to the community
• Testing new stuff on the PTS
• Making my build work
• Changing my dyes on my armor so it can look good
• Trading goods
• Hording crafting goods
• Selling things I do not want
• Chatting with guild mates
• Playing the game

Correct. All of those things were a waste of time because I'm unsubscribing.

You've touched upon why people are so angry -- that list represents an investment of time and effort. All of those things supposedly contribute towards the development and progression of our characters, whether we're talking about vanity personalization or strengthening our stats. Making the decision to unsubscribe is difficult because we have to acknowledge *all* of that was, indeed, a waste of time.

It's a lot like ending a relationship -- we're mourning the death of what was and what could have been.

And, just like with *some* relationships, this one is ending because ZOS made a promise and broke it, blithely. They assured us on October 3rd (as quoted above) that continuing to play our characters would contribute to our characters' development under the Champion System. That's plainly stated in the October 3rd quotation above, in no uncertain terms.

I'm unsubscribing because the endless promise-parade of "good things coming later -- no really" is no longer sufficient to justify keeping my subscription, given this complete 180 on what they *explicitly* told us would be the case with the implementation of the Champion System.

The question you should be asking yourself is this: how big must the lie be for YOU to unsubscribe? How much dishonesty are you, personally, willing to tolerate? As I stated earlier, I've had my fill.

TheLaw

With 3 V14 toons, I'm more than furious. I was promised, on multiple occasion, that XP would be tracked. I'm giving ZOS one more shot. If 1.6 doesn't deliver, I'm unsubscribing.

Xeniph

I really do feel for Zos.

It is quite obvious they aren't sure what to do. It would seem they are worried to go any direction for fear of angering any particular group.

In theory it seems reasonable to award anyone at VR1+ with the same points. I can also see where they are worried about widening the power gap, since Vet rank are staying for the time being.

But why not award said points on a linear scale, up to 30 at VR14?

Futhermore, what about those players that reach V1 the day after update 6? Will they get the 30 points, or is the power gap ok after launch and they receive none? As far as I can tell, anyone who reaches V1 after update 6 hits, will have this disadvantage they are trying so hard to avoid.

I'm not going to threaten to unsub, or rage. But I can say,I sure feel like this company values new/prospective players, much more than my veteran account.

And I will say this. Any player that has completed most of the quests available, is at quite a disadvantage over someone who hasn't. It severely limits/slows their champion point exp gains. I believe worries over this issue are valid.

Darkonflare15

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

So I guess leveling vet 14 was a waste of time. Lets list all of the things that was a waste of time.

• Researching gear
• Having fun
• Getting Stronger gear
• Having more Attribute points
• Having more Skill Points
• Gaining cool titles
• Fighting strong monsters
• Playing with friends
• Playing with Strangers
• Gaining xp for skills
• Gaining xp to level up
• Playing the story
• Learning how to play
• Crafting
• Completing Dolmens
• Completing Dungeons
• Gaining a lot of gold
• Travel to cool places
• Learning what is going on in each alliances
• Finding rare gear
• Get new dyes
• Theory crafting with new builds
• Trying out new skill combinations
• Taking Screenshots and share to the community
• Testing new stuff on the PTS
• Making my build work
• Changing my dyes on my armor so it can look good
• Trading goods
• Hording crafting goods
• Selling things I do not want
• Chatting with guild mates
• Playing the game

Correct. All of those things were a waste of time because I'm unsubscribing.

You've touched upon why people are so angry -- that list represents an investment of time and effort. All of those things supposedly contribute towards the development and progression of our characters, whether we're talking about vanity personalization or strengthening our stats. Making the decision to unsubscribe is difficult because we have to acknowledge *all* of that was, indeed, a waste of time.

It's a lot like ending a relationship -- we're mourning the death of what was and what could have been.

And, just like with *some* relationships, this one is ending because ZOS made a promise and broke it, blithely. They assured us on October 3rd (as quoted above) that continuing to play our characters would contribute to our characters' development under the Champion System. That's plainly stated in the October 3rd quotation above, in no uncertain terms.

I'm unsubscribing because the endless promise-parade of "good things coming later -- no really" is no longer sufficient to justify keeping my subscription, given this complete 180 on what they *explicitly* told us would be the case with the implementation of the Champion System.

The question you should be asking yourself is this: how big must the lie be for YOU to unsubscribe? How much dishonesty are you, personally, willing to tolerate? As I stated earlier, I've had my fill.

That question never cross my mind because I do not feel cheated because what I did was not a waste of time because I still will be doing that in the future. I did not believe that "tracked xp" thus I was never lied too.

I have a character that has a lot items and time put into him and he is not going away by update 6. So why should I consider him a waste of time? He actually is getting better after this update. I am not going disregard him as a waste of time because of ZOS or because of some unknown player consider it a waste of time. I am not going to unsubscribe just because some game developer supposedly lied to me. Big deal people lie a lot especially corporations and companies. I do not feel as connected to a company as I will feel towards a person I know thus this does not sway me. I never care that people who started playing the before and after me are leave vet 14. Why should care that a vet 1 gets the same points?

I will unsubscribe once this game is not consider fun for me. So far it is good. So no.

Komma

Having 3 vr14s and 1 vr1 and having played since pre launch I do feel this is a slap in the face. Why should those who put in the time and went through the gold chain 3 times be rewarded the same as someone who just recently made lvl 50? Why should those who have put in their time be pulled back to the pack? When VR ranks go away I expect to be rewarded for my time and given the points I deserve and earned after being told that the exp earned would be rewarded. I cant get those quests and exp again unless I want to lvl even more toons through the gold lines. Very disappointed.

EQBallzz

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

So I guess leveling vet 14 was a waste of time. Lets list all of the things that was a waste of time.

• Researching gear
• Having fun
• Getting Stronger gear
• Having more Attribute points
• Having more Skill Points
• Gaining cool titles
• Fighting strong monsters
• Playing with friends
• Playing with Strangers
• Gaining xp for skills
• Gaining xp to level up
• Playing the story
• Learning how to play
• Crafting
• Completing Dolmens
• Completing Dungeons
• Gaining a lot of gold
• Travel to cool places
• Learning what is going on in each alliances
• Finding rare gear
• Get new dyes
• Theory crafting with new builds
• Trying out new skill combinations
• Taking Screenshots and share to the community
• Testing new stuff on the PTS
• Making my build work
• Changing my dyes on my armor so it can look good
• Trading goods
• Hording crafting goods
• Selling things I do not want
• Chatting with guild mates
• Playing the game

Correct. All of those things were a waste of time because I'm unsubscribing.

You've touched upon why people are so angry -- that list represents an investment of time and effort. All of those things supposedly contribute towards the development and progression of our characters, whether we're talking about vanity personalization or strengthening our stats. Making the decision to unsubscribe is difficult because we have to acknowledge *all* of that was, indeed, a waste of time.

It's a lot like ending a relationship -- we're mourning the death of what was and what could have been.

And, just like with *some* relationships, this one is ending because ZOS made a promise and broke it, blithely. They assured us on October 3rd (as quoted above) that continuing to play our characters would contribute to our characters' development under the Champion System. That's plainly stated in the October 3rd quotation above, in no uncertain terms.

I'm unsubscribing because the endless promise-parade of "good things coming later -- no really" is no longer sufficient to justify keeping my subscription, given this complete 180 on what they *explicitly* told us would be the case with the implementation of the Champion System.

The question you should be asking yourself is this: how big must the lie be for YOU to unsubscribe? How much dishonesty are you, personally, willing to tolerate? As I stated earlier, I've had my fill.

That question never cross my mind because I do not feel cheated because what I did was not a waste of time because I still will be doing that in the future. I did not believe that "tracked xp" thus I was never lied too.

I have a character that has a lot items and time put into him and he is not going away by update 6. So why should I consider him a waste of time? He actually is getting better after this update. I am not going disregard him as a waste of time because of ZOS or because of some unknown player consider it a waste of time. I am not going to unsubscribe just because some game developer supposedly lied to me. Big deal people lie a lot especially corporations and companies. I do not feel as connected to a company as I will feel towards a person I know thus this does not sway me.

I will unsubscribe once this game is not consider fun for me. So far it is good. So no.

Good for you I guess but you don't sound like someone who has invested hundreds of hours completing all the veteran content on multiple characters and now that will be wasted in the champion system. Honestly, it doesn't even sound like you have a grasp of what is happening.

Lets do a little thought experiment. In the system as they describe it (after champ goes live) a player levels through 1-50 as normal so that is no different. Once hitting 50 they enter the champ system which will have 3600 possible points and will take an enormous amount of time to get. However, the skills you can invest in are weighted to the front so as you add more and more points to skills they are adding less and less power. That means the initial X number of points will be of the greatest impact to the player and at some point they diminish in value to very slight or incremental upgrades (so much less valuable).

When you first hit 50 you will then have ALL the silver and gold content to run through and gain XP. At 1 million per level (plus the XP from killing things through the content and exploration etc..) you are looking at easily 20-30 million XP. That could represent several hundred CP and not just any CP but the most impactful CP in the system. It's also the easiest XP in the game to acquire. It's also easily solo'd content and doesn't require looking for a group.

So new V1 players will have access to the fastest, easiest and most plentiful solo friendly XP in the game to gain access to the most impactful and meaningful points in the champ system while doing nothing more than playing the game normally (like many of us have already done).

How will the rest of us with few or no character slots gain an equivalent amount of XP if there is not *some* conversion? Will we be expected to do Craglorn repeatable quests that require a group? Maybe boring Cyrodiil quests that will have to contend with other factions even if we don't want to PvP? Will we have to grind mobs for hours on end even if we *hate* that with a passion? What is the equivalent XP source for those of us who can't breeze through the vet areas and boost our CP up substantially by just playing the game as it was designed?

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

So I guess leveling vet 14 was a waste of time. Lets list all of the things that was a waste of time.

• Researching gear
• Having fun
• Getting Stronger gear
• Having more Attribute points
• Having more Skill Points
• Gaining cool titles
• Fighting strong monsters
• Playing with friends
• Playing with Strangers
• Gaining xp for skills
• Gaining xp to level up
• Playing the story
• Learning how to play
• Crafting
• Completing Dolmens
• Completing Dungeons
• Gaining a lot of gold
• Travel to cool places
• Learning what is going on in each alliances
• Finding rare gear
• Get new dyes
• Theory crafting with new builds
• Trying out new skill combinations
• Taking Screenshots and share to the community
• Testing new stuff on the PTS
• Making my build work
• Changing my dyes on my armor so it can look good
• Trading goods
• Hording crafting goods
• Selling things I do not want
• Chatting with guild mates
• Playing the game

Correct. All of those things were a waste of time because I'm unsubscribing.

You've touched upon why people are so angry -- that list represents an investment of time and effort. All of those things supposedly contribute towards the development and progression of our characters, whether we're talking about vanity personalization or strengthening our stats. Making the decision to unsubscribe is difficult because we have to acknowledge *all* of that was, indeed, a waste of time.

It's a lot like ending a relationship -- we're mourning the death of what was and what could have been.

And, just like with *some* relationships, this one is ending because ZOS made a promise and broke it, blithely. They assured us on October 3rd (as quoted above) that continuing to play our characters would contribute to our characters' development under the Champion System. That's plainly stated in the October 3rd quotation above, in no uncertain terms.

I'm unsubscribing because the endless promise-parade of "good things coming later -- no really" is no longer sufficient to justify keeping my subscription, given this complete 180 on what they *explicitly* told us would be the case with the implementation of the Champion System.

The question you should be asking yourself is this: how big must the lie be for YOU to unsubscribe? How much dishonesty are you, personally, willing to tolerate? As I stated earlier, I've had my fill.

That question never cross my mind because I do not feel cheated because what I did was not a waste of time because I still will be doing that in the future. I did not believe that "tracked xp" thus I was never lied too.

I have a character that has a lot items and time put into him and he is not going away by update 6. So why should I consider him a waste of time? He actually is getting better after this update. I am not going disregard him as a waste of time because of ZOS or because of some unknown player consider it a waste of time. I am not going to unsubscribe just because some game developer supposedly lied to me. Big deal people lie a lot especially corporations and companies. I do not feel as connected to a company as I will feel towards a person I know thus this does not sway me.

I will unsubscribe once this game is not consider fun for me. So far it is good. So no.

So, just to clarify, you're saying that because you "never believed" ZOS would keep their word, you don't feel you were deceived. Are you sure you're not allowing the hindsight fairy to sprinkle retroactive justification dust in your ear?

Sorry, but your feelings on the matter aren't universalized to the rest of us. It's like saying your spouse's adultery is Ok because you *expected* the infidelity, despite any marriage vows you may have heard to the contrary.

ZOS conned us into playing through the autumn and winter to fund the development of the Champion and Justice Systems. I've unsubscribed (just did it -- 44 days of playtime remaining) because I don't tolerate being manipulated.

None of the reasons they've offered, so far, explain why they've gone back on their word *other* than the one I've given. They changed the how valuable each point is and rescaled how many points? Then they should rescale the alleged Champion Point conversion rate as well as the cap to accommodate those changes. It's just math. No reason to renege on the promise to track XP and award Champion Points, accordingly.

Nobody who is presumably alright with ZOS breaking their word can offer any reason for it -- all they can say is "Well, this isn't enough to make me quit, yet."

ZOS needs to come up with a solution or else they'll lose more than just my subscription. This non-answer from @ZOS_GinaBruno doesn't work. Your claim to have clairvoyantly predicted this doesn't work, either. ZOS keeping their word, however -- that would work.

There has not yet been a valid reason given as to why they *can't* keep their word. That's why I have ended my subscription.

Razzak

Emencie wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

So what about "we track xp". This will make many many ppl mad.

Gyudan wrote: »

While, I'm glad you took the time to explain all this, I can't help but feel cheated of the time I spent progressing my characters over hundreds of hours.

I'll be pondering whether keeping my subscription or not.

I do not understand this reaction. They outright said you are not losing your VR14 ranks, skills, attributes or even gear.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists.

How do you feel cheated? You will still be as powerful as you ever were compared to a VR5, a VR1 or a level 34 character.

Imagine a new char. He gets to 50 and gets 30 CPs. He has whole two zones of quests to do in order to accumulate further CPs. How many quests is that?
Now imagine a Vet14 char. He already did every single quest. He also has 30 CPs. What is he to do in order to accumulate further CPs?

This is where is gets interesting for me. I think I understand why they did it like so. They wanted to offer Vet14s a new way of progression. But this also points to a thought that ZOS's devs spend very little time actually playing the game. It feels like it was done on a spreadsheet and nothing more. But, like I said, I understand it and to a point even agree with it. But it still leaves a lot of players in a position where they have to do something they didn't or don't want to do in order to progress their char. It's about questers and the question of how they are supposed to earn CPs.

Joy_Division

A long time ago I read something called "Peter's Evil Overlord List," which was a humorous but insightful critique of the lack of common sense that foiled the overcomplicated schemes of villains from comic-books, movies, and fantasy novels. One of the more pertinent points was to hire a 9 year old adviser as a safeguard to ensure that the most obvious flaw would not be missed by overthinking.

ZoS needs to hire a nine year old.

How did a company of otherwise bright, motivated, and experienced people NOT anticipate the overwhelming negative response to the conjecture that VR14s would effectively be neutered to the same level as VR1s? I say conjecture because although they have not said what we want to hear, namely that 1.7 will duly compensate VR14s, ZoS has not confirmed what we fear, namely that no compensation will be forthcoming in 1.7. The likely answer is they knew...but were confident that their direction of the game was for the best and still not quite sure what to do with 1.7.

The nine year old would have instantly said, "It's not fair and people will feel cheated, lied to, screwed, etc." The nine year old also would have pointed out that without assurances for 1.7, people will - rightly - be concerned that ZoS will give out nothing beyond those initial 30 points.

Now, I am actually fine with everyone getting 30 Champion points in the beginning for the reasons laid out by Gina's post. This is a new system, a conservative approach is needed to ensure balance, and I do actually think we would be deprived of the feeling of progression if we received these points immediately when 1.6 came out opposed to as opposed to getting the level up "dings" that typically come with character advancement (but see condition for 1.7 below). Mostly because of a point that sometimes gets lost: when 1.6 comes out my VR14 with 30 champion points will still look at your VR1 with 30 champion points as free alliance points in Cyrodiil

I THINK most of the ESO community could also get behind this... IF ... in Gina's post there was a hardened guarantee (i.e. more than just words) that once 1.7 comes the power gap between VR14 and VR1 would not instantly vanish. Nothing in Gina's post gave any specifics regarding this and that is why many people are upset. Most likely because ZoS themselves are not sure how they are going to approach it. Still, the very fact they backtracked from a previous assurance that the VR14 would be duly compensated is an indication that eliminating the disparity between VR14 and VR1 may still be on the table.

Had that nine-year-old been on ZoS's payroll, they would have already recognized that a reboot of ESO and the VR14s, whatever its advantages and however idealistic, was an impractical policy. A compromise framework, even if still on the drawing board, that in some way compensated VR14s for the effective removal of their power and status would have been in place and in Gina's post.

Speaking for myself, just give me something beyond vanity pets for 1.7 to compensate the 14 veteran ranks I am losing. I do not need 1000 Champion points - even if that what some formula says I should get. But give me a few...there are over 3600 so the actual benefit will actually be quite marginal and, as pointed out in Live, those lucky VR1s getting a free ticket to max level will "catch up" quickly to me. And give me some tokens to select new high end gear as an acknowledgement that under the old system, I would have gotten before the VR1s anyway. I understand the advantages and the caution necessary for a reboot so I will be content with less than I otherwise would have received. But I think it is fair and reasonable to expect something.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

I would be really pissed if I were either a person who had worked on this system or one of the money people behind this game.

All the time and money spend on this system to ensure a longevity of the game has now turned into ill feeling and bad word of mouth that will cost them a lot of money and bar many many people from buying the game.

Now the word will spread over gamer sites that you cannot trust this dev team, that they screw over loyal costumers and that they lie in your face to trick you into playing their game.

And all that because some person thought that a few percentages difference would become a problem for the health of the game so they put in this "solution" that now have given them a problem many times bigger than the difference could ever have and cost them the trust of their player base.

Someone must be really angry at someone now, so much potential, work and good intentions wasted.

EQBallzz

I don't get people who keep making comments that this is about status or something. I could care less about that and I doubt many do. The big problem is *access* to largest amount of easily obtainable XP in the game that counts towards CP. A fresh 50 will have 30 CP and in addition to that all that silver and gold XP to further boost their CP. Someone with 3 v14 characters may get 30 CP but where do they get an equivalent amount of XP to match that of someone who still has silver/gold to do?

Darkonflare15

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

So I guess leveling vet 14 was a waste of time. Lets list all of the things that was a waste of time.



The question you should be asking yourself is this: how big must the lie be for YOU to unsubscribe? How much dishonesty are you, personally, willing to tolerate? As I stated earlier, I've had my fill.

That question never cross my mind because I do not feel cheated because what I did was not a waste of time because I still will be doing that in the future. I did not believe that "tracked xp" thus I was never lied too.

I have a character that has a lot items and time put into him and he is not going away by update 6. So why should I consider him a waste of time? He actually is getting better after this update. I am not going disregard him as a waste of time because of ZOS or because of some unknown player consider it a waste of time. I am not going to unsubscribe just because some game developer supposedly lied to me. Big deal people lie a lot especially corporations and companies. I do not feel as connected to a company as I will feel towards a person I know thus this does not sway me.

So, just to clarify, you're saying that because you "never believed" ZOS would keep their word, you don't feel you were deceived. Are you sure you're not allowing the hindsight fairy to sprinkle retroactive justification dust in your ear?

Sorry, but your feelings on the matter aren't universalized to the rest of us. It's like saying your spouse's adultery is Ok because you *expected* the infidelity, despite any marriage vows you may have heard to the contrary.

ZOS conned us into playing through the autumn and winter to fund the development of the Champion and Justice Systems. I've unsubscribed (just did it -- 44 days of playtime remaining) because I don't tolerate being manipulated.

None of the reasons they've offered, so far, explain why they've gone back on their word *other* than the one I've given. They changed the how valuable each point is and rescaled how many points? Then they should rescale the alleged Champion Point conversion rate as well as the cap to accommodate those changes. It's just math. No reason to renege on the promise to track XP and award Champion Points, accordingly.

Nobody who is presumably alright with ZOS breaking their word can offer any reason for it -- all they can say is "Well, this isn't enough to make me quit, yet."

ZOS needs to come up with a solution or else they'll lose more than just my subscription. This non-answer from @ZOS_GinaBruno doesn't work. Your claim to have clairvoyantly predicted this doesn't work, either. ZOS keeping their word, however -- that would work.

There has not yet been a valid reason given as to why they *can't* keep their word. That's why I have ended my subscription.

I guess you did not pay attention to what I type. I just answer your question which is in bold and of course my feelings are not universalized neither is yours. I never said that. I gave you a reason why this did not bother me. Your comparison is not valid because of what I said in bold. I have been play this game since one of the betas in February. I understand what is going on pretty well and I am presumably alright and I gave you a reason why. I am sorry that I am not devastated as you are and not everybody feels that way. I am also sorry that I not going to waste my money by unsubbing when I still have time left.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

Joy_Division wrote: »

A long time ago I read something called "Peter's Evil Overlord List," which was a humorous but insightful critique of the lack of common sense that foiled the overcomplicated schemes of villains from comic-books, movies, and fantasy novels. One of the more pertinent points was to hire a 9 year old adviser as a safeguard to ensure that the most obvious flaw would not be missed by overthinking.

ZoS needs to hire a nine year old.

How did a company of otherwise bright, motivated, and experienced people NOT anticipate the overwhelming negative response to the CONJECTURE - and let's face it, it is just that - that VR14s would effectively be neutered to the same level as VR1s? The likely answer is they knew...but were confident that their direction of the game was for the best.

The nine year old would have instantly said, "It's not fair and people will feel cheated, lied to, screwed, etc."

Very insightful. However, the discord isn't over a conjecture. Prior to the 19th, the only conjectures being entertained by players were what the Champion System "onset" conversion rate from XP to CP would be, and also what the cap would be.

Also, you said:

Joy_Division wrote: »

This is a new system, a conservative approach is needed to ensure balance, and I do actually think we would be deprived of the feeling of progression if we actually received these points as opposed to earning them.

The issue is not that we don't want to earn Champion Points. As stated ad nauseam, we were assured on October 3rd that XP was being tracked for Champion Points -- that we were, in effect, already earning them.

The issue is not just with the reneged assurance that we *have been* earning Champion Points, it's also that this *isn't* a clean reboot. Our characters aren't being erased/reset. We're not starting from scratch. We cannot go back and do unrepeatable content on characters we might want to keep, and the only way to get that potential back would be to delete those characters to free up the slots. As others have pointed out, some people have multiple max-level characters that have *already* completed Cadwell's Silver/Gold -- the overwhelming majority of their Champion Point earning potential is gone for however many characters have already completed those quests.

No one is saying they want Champion Points they have not earned. They're saying ZOS promised us we were already earning them, and now we want ZOS to hold up their end.

Vonovosi

you know what else bugs me about this. at the same time that they are announcing that all the achievements that we have in-game will count for nothing in the new champion system they have the nerve to announce the enlightenment system. that's right you will get increased CP gain by staying away from the game rather than playing it.

themizario

I like to send /tells to people in game who say are unsubbing with 'Hi' and when they respond 'Who is this?' I say 'Can I haz ur stuff plz?'

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

themizario wrote: »

I like to send /tells to people in game who say are unsubbing with 'Hi' and when they respond 'Who is this?' I say 'Can I haz ur stuff plz?'

I have unsubscribed, but I still have 44 days of playtime left. That's more than enough time to for ZOS to dislodge their heads from their Doomcrags and realize keeping their word to the players is worth it. Unfortunately for you, I'm not sitting here refreshing this thread over and over because I'm looking for someone to gift with my inventory.

What I *am* actively looking for is a reason to keep playing that outweighs my bitterness over being manipulated, but it's not going very well. I can't justify being conned with an empty promise into staying subscribed to fund their reboot. I take dishonesty very seriously.

They deliberately lied to us in October so we would not gravitate to other games when all the new games were coming out. People were losing interest in ESO, there was very little new content on the horizon to keep us interested, so the only carrot ZOS had to offer that would keep us subscribed was an empty promise. I don't understand how/why people don't feel betrayed by that.

Etharian

Gyudan wrote: »

While, I'm glad you took the time to explain all this, I can't help but feel cheated of the time I spent progressing my characters over hundreds of hours.

I'll be pondering whether to keep my subscription or not.

Cry me a RIVER!! , you guys wanted a better game... they are giving it to us and all you guys do is cry regardless of what the changes are. Life sucks... get used to it.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

Etharian wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

While, I'm glad you took the time to explain all this, I can't help but feel cheated of the time I spent progressing my characters over hundreds of hours.

I'll be pondering whether to keep my subscription or not.

Cry me a RIVER!! , you guys wanted a better game... they are giving it to us and all you guys do is cry regardless of what the changes are. Life sucks... get used to it.

No tears to spare, at the moment. Can I just laugh at your oversimplification of the issue, instead?

It must be nice coasting through life, excusing everything bad that happens with clichéd expressions. Good to know you have everything sewn up so eloquently. LOL

But don't concern yourself, too much. After all, every rose has its thorn, there's got to be a morning after, and these boots were made for walking, right? Right.

Tonnopesce

Hey!!
Is just like in real life... is not fair but here i PAY for this and has a customer i pretend to be listened:

I'm pretty shure that re roll a vr 1 alt just to be able to gain the xp and ch points even for my ex vr 14 op's toons wich eventually in a hour they will be able to gain maybe half of the xp will do the job.
So from today i will abandon my vr 14 toons since is worthless to play with them.

Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ for this clarification so i can avoid to waste my time with a vr 14 character and have fun with someting that really metters in this game...... a low level toon wich CANNOT try and test END GAME content
like SO or VET DSA or COA or VET DUNGEONS or even CYRODIIL (since if you are not a max level there you are fresh meat and die evry minute)

Skullemainia

so the most people here don't play this game because they like to play eso, this is no "nice time spending" for you?? so the reason why you play this game is what?? be the best at something so that you can brag about it?? you're really pathetic if you think all those hours playing eso was a waste of time. why did you even started playing this game in the first place?? and why would you stop playing the game now?? nobody's earning champion points, everybody is treated equal. and Champion system isn't the whole game!! it isn't the whole char. progression!!! stats aren't everything, you have to be a good player to