Champion System Clarification

Sharee · December 2014

This is an interesting bit:

Do you think there will be a new meta to power up Champion Levels quickly? Currently the fastest method is to grind mobs for experience. Will you be increasing the XP rewards from some other types of activities, will doing trials, for example, be a valid way of getting that experience or is it going to be so ineffective to do trials that you might as well grind mobs to get a million more champion points?

Yeah, that’s a good point and I’ve had some feedback into the Champion System, but I haven’t dug into every single thing that team has been working on. I know they did increase the amount of experience people get from Trials to make it in line with the Champion System, but I don’t know how much they increased those values by. I know that the PTS testing is going to be extremely valuable for this, so it would be great if people could play a good amount and give us feedback on systems like that.

Islyn · December 2014

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i have completed a HUGE amount of content that is NON-repeatable, when the champion system is in full swing i will not be able to gain new champion points because i allready completed the quests in all 3 alliances.
this gives freedom for others to get the points earned but i will NOT be able to gain the champion points because i allready completed the matterial and quests?
and you know what, that to me looks like you just told me you dont care.
or perhaps i am misunderstanding this?
because from where i stand as a v14 character with no other characters, it looks to me like i basicly have to restart the entire game after 8 months of dedicated work to be able to be competetive in pve and PvP.

is this true?

This!

Please answer!

Mumyo · December 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

As many of you know, the Champion System is designed to be a replacement for the Veteran System. Internally, we have been implementing and testing the Champion System for the last few months. During that iteration time we’ve learned a lot. This changed some of our intended launch goals for the system. Specifically of concern is the number of Champion Points earned before the system launches. Here are four of the most salient points with regards to the number of Champion Points earned when we launch phase 3 with Update 6 and the reasons for the change:

The system needs to be integrated in phases, leaving the Veteran Ranks in place for phase 3.

Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.

The system should give more value for each point spent than originally conceived.

A second thing we learned is that each Champion Point needs to have more impact on the stats it is altering than originally planned. This came up frequently in our internal feedback sessions. Responding to that feedback, we decreased the number of overall points in the system (14,400 to 3,600), but kept the range of what they could alter the same. Because each point is more valuable there are less points overall in the system. Thus we can’t give out as many points with the introduction of the system as originally believed.

The system has to account for relative power values of the game.

We had to start narrowing down on the variables for our content in the game. Because we are changing many of the abilities and base factors in the gameplay, we needed to start with less of a variance in player power to achieve a good introduction of the system. Or more simply, the more points we give out now, the harder it is to find a good place between various balance points: PvP, overland content, Veteran Content, Craglorn, Dungeons, Trials, etc…

The system shouldn’t separate players more.

This is pretty self-explanatory, and is related to the first point. While the system is meant to have built in safeguards against players pulling away from each other too dramatically – those systems aren’t in currently. A 1-to-1 XP conversion to Champion XP was too dramatic.

Also, when phase 3 of the Champion System goes live with Update 6, all accounts that have at least one Veteran Rank character on them will automatically receive 30 Champion Points. These 30 Champion Points, though applied to your account, are distributed in full to each individual character on your account, just as Champion Points you earn are. So, if you have 5 characters, at least one of which is Veteran Rank 1 or higher, all five of those characters will have 30 CP to spend. You will not be awarded more Champion Points for having five Veteran Characters versus just one. You will also be able to begin earning Champion Points on any Veteran Rank character from that point forward.

We feel confident that our current solution is better for the enjoyment of the game overall than our originally announced design. This comes from weeks of testing the system. While iterating on solutions and changing the design is a normal and necessary part of the game making process, we definitely understand how changes to a system like this can be frustrating and seem to come from nowhere.

That said, we’re going to continue to be open about our plans and designs for the future of ESO. While a change in development like this can be frustrating, it isn’t a reason for us to not communicate. We never intend to mislead, but sometimes even our best ideas just don’t work out once they get into the game. We feel the Champion System is still going to be a fun way for you to keep customizing your character to suit your tastes and specializing in ways that make you unique. We’re looking forward to you giving it a trial run on the PTS, and sending us your feedback.

Guess u made some "bubu" here.
Sometimes its better to keep the mouth shut before u make wrong promisses and earn anger again.

Sharee · December 2014

Nazon_Katts · December 2014

Sharee wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Now the problem with Cyrodiil repeatable quests is that people have learned it is the only way for solo players to get XP at the endgame so they are becoming seriously camped by gankers now and it will become immensely worse after 1.6 so they CANNOT use those quests as a bandaid.

I agree with your prediction, except for the 'problem' part.

I think this is actually good! The PVE areas will become valuable resources that alliances will fight over, sparking both smaller and larger conflicts, drawing players away from the massive zergs around keeps, potentially even lessening the lag that is generated by too many people in one place.

Theoretically.

I have yet to see a game where mixing PvE with PvP brought more good than bad. While it surely will result in what you hope for occasionally, the times it doesn't and the amount of people annoyed by it just won't make that a fruitful mechanic.

Just think of single campers at gates, boats or any other high traffic bottle necks. They would be easily disposed off, but they just aren't, since it takes quite a few kills to get noticed, a bit longer to spread the news and a whole lot longer to organize people against them.

So they can gank nearly undisturbed and in the unlikely case their doing really does trigger open world PvP, they just move to another place and pick off people elsewhere.

You have to pull PvPers together for PvP, not use PvEers unwillingly as bait. That's just bad design.

Sharee · December 2014

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

You have to pull PvPers together for PvP, not use PvEers unwillingly as bait. That's just bad design.

I meant it is good for the PvP players. Ideally, ZOS will provide the pure PvErs with ways to earn their champion points in PvE. They are increasing trial XP rewards already, let's see what more comes out of it.

On the other hand, i also think it is good to give PvErs some incentive to get their feet wet in cyrodiil, so to speak. I know people who were so afraid of facing other players they never dared to enter AvA, until they went there just to collect a skyshard, got into a keep siege, and discovered they love it.

ZOS_MichaelM · December 2014

Folks, Several postings had to be removed from this thread as they were not in line with our Community-Rules. We’d like to remind everyone that we don’t allow flaming and/or trolling on the ESO forums.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · December 2014

Sharee wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Now the problem with Cyrodiil repeatable quests is that people have learned it is the only way for solo players to get XP at the endgame so they are becoming seriously camped by gankers now and it will become immensely worse after 1.6 so they CANNOT use those quests as a bandaid.

I agree with your prediction, except for the 'problem' part.

I think this is actually good! The PVE areas will become valuable resources that alliances will fight over, sparking both smaller and larger conflicts, drawing players away from the massive zergs around keeps, potentially even lessening the lag that is generated by too many people in one place.

Sure anything that make pvp more diverse is a good thing. The problem is if people don't have any other options to gain CPs solo....

There really has been a mismanagement of solo PvE at the endgame in this game and that is the whole reason for all this anger with the CP system.

Seriously if they do not give people a decent way to gain solo XP then they should delay the champ system until they have that put in place and Cyrodiil dailies wont work since you have to dodge gankers.

okraus · December 2014

I knew they were lying when they told us that they would track XP! Showing their incompentence again and again when it comes to game design it was quiet clear that they were not able to do that. Now time was running short for the next release and it was getting harder to keep up this lie so they had to let the cat out of the bag.
Well played ZOS - since you already have scared of a big part of the community the response, criticism and flaming will be tolerable and you will continue with your way of game politics. Like the top-ranking politician in germany are doing it for decades now... just sit and wait - the opposition will become silent.
Again and again you disapoint me and finally i am fed up!

Cheers!

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · December 2014

Sharee wrote: »

This is an interesting bit:

Do you think there will be a new meta to power up Champion Levels quickly? Currently the fastest method is to grind mobs for experience. Will you be increasing the XP rewards from some other types of activities, will doing trials, for example, be a valid way of getting that experience or is it going to be so ineffective to do trials that you might as well grind mobs to get a million more champion points?

Yeah, that’s a good point and I’ve had some feedback into the Champion System, but I haven’t dug into every single thing that team has been working on. I know they did increase the amount of experience people get from Trials to make it in line with the Champion System, but I don’t know how much they increased those values by. I know that the PTS testing is going to be extremely valuable for this, so it would be great if people could play a good amount and give us feedback on systems like that.

Not really, trials are repeatable content and not soloable. Thus they are not even a part of the problem.

The problem is the limited resource of finite soloable content that were wasted because of a promise.

Enodoc · December 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

People are upset about the fact that they will have no comparable way to gain the Champion Points that were assured would be given by them completing Cadwell's.

ZOS already officially stated that they intend for all players to have a comparable way to gain champion points, regardless of whether they still have cadwell's quests to do or not.

Give them a chance.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

This is an interesting bit:

Do you think there will be a new meta to power up Champion Levels quickly? Currently the fastest method is to grind mobs for experience. Will you be increasing the XP rewards from some other types of activities, will doing trials, for example, be a valid way of getting that experience or is it going to be so ineffective to do trials that you might as well grind mobs to get a million more champion points?

Yeah, that’s a good point and I’ve had some feedback into the Champion System, but I haven’t dug into every single thing that team has been working on. I know they did increase the amount of experience people get from Trials to make it in line with the Champion System, but I don’t know how much they increased those values by. I know that the PTS testing is going to be extremely valuable for this, so it would be great if people could play a good amount and give us feedback on systems like that.

Not really, trials are repeatable content and not soloable. Thus they are not even a part of the problem.

The problem is the limited resource of finite soloable content that were wasted because of a promise.

This was the point I was trying to make when I said [...] maybe they are going to make Champion Point accumulation comparable between [different] types of content, but if the content itself is not comparable, that is irrelevant. which was conveniently cut off of my post in the top quote.

DanielMaxwell · December 2014

@ZOS_MichaelM any chance you can get ZOS to better explain point 2 in the OP of this thread and to apologize to the community for any confusion resulting from the oct 3 promise

Kaliki · December 2014

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

the problem is the limited resource of finite soloable content that were wasted because of a promise.

To me, the main problem is them taking away the current progression system and not giving those who have progressed anything back. I believe what you say is true as well, but its just one more consequence.

Slurg · December 2014

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or anyone else from ZOS who may be reading this thread, would you do a post on all of the many ways that veteran level characters can earn XP and champion points, and how those might be changing with 1.6?

A very vocal and hostile part of the population seems to be hung up on believing and pushing the notion that the Cadwell's quests are the very best and even the only way for veteran level characters to earn XP and champion points now and for forever and ever. I don't believe this to be true and if all of the ways points can be gained in the champion system can be listed in a ZOS post it may ease some minds.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · December 2014

Slurg wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or anyone else from ZOS who may be reading this thread, would you do a post on all of the many ways that veteran level characters can earn XP and champion points, and how those might be changing with 1.6?

A very vocal and hostile part of the population seems to be hung up on believing and pushing the notion that the Cadwell's quests are the very best and even the only way for veteran level characters to earn XP and champion points now and for forever and ever. I don't believe this to be true and if all of the ways points can be gained in the champion system can be listed in a ZOS post it may ease some minds.

Caldwells silver and gold is not the best way to gain xp. But it _is_ the only way to gain them SOLO.

Non solo there are all kinds of ways to get xp at the endgame, like pledges, trials, farm spots in Craglorn and even PvP.

Solo there is nothing once Caldwells gold is spend up, and people did spend up that limited resource of solo xp because they were told they could without worry because the xp were tracked and would be rewarded.

I all comes down to the incredible bad way the devs have handled solo play at end level. Most solo players have leveled up alts while waiting for something to do and now the xp made on those alts are flushed down the drain by the devs.

It is incredible unfair what they are doing to solo players, while group and raid players don't have to worry and can just keep on doing what they have done so far.

That is the reason for the rage.

If they gave solo players meaningful content to have fun in at the same time as they put out the champion system then there wouldn't be a problem. This is why I seriously think thst they should scrap the entire system until Wrotgard is ready.

DanielMaxwell · December 2014

Slurg wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or anyone else from ZOS who may be reading this thread, would you do a post on all of the many ways that veteran level characters can earn XP and champion points, and how those might be changing with 1.6?

A very vocal and hostile part of the population seems to be hung up on believing and pushing the notion that the Cadwell's quests are the very best and even the only way for veteran level characters to earn XP and champion points now and for forever and ever. I don't believe this to be true and if all of the ways points can be gained in the champion system can be listed in a ZOS post it may ease some minds.

not a ZOS post but i think i can list most of them

means of players gaining xp

dungeons : these can be improved by adding a end of dungeon xp bunus based on the number of bosses in the dungeon killed with killing all bosses giving double the bonus compared to killing all bout one boss in the dungeon .example being dungeon has 4 bosses , kill only final boss gives a 25% xp bonus , killing final boss plus 1 other grants a 50% xp bonus , killing final boss plus 2 equals 75% xp bonus , and killing all 4 bosses equals a 150% xp bonus .

PvP : increase the amount of xp gained for killing other players , but place a cap on the number of times you can get xp from the same player ina3 day period . cap should be no higher then 50 but not lower then 10.

killing hostile NPC's : boost xp gained from killing NPC's by 50% - 75%

quests : non repeatable quests are fine , repeatable quests increase xp gain by 25% -50%

those are the means of gaing xp that advances you in the champion system that I know of along with what i think might balance them out with the non repeatable quests . of course I might be missing somethings that ZOS has planed to provide champion system progression

Ethona · December 2014

All ZOS had to do was tell us players that they have changed their minds about saving and using our XP to reward us CP when that change took place. ZOS told us about the CS plans in OCT during that guild event. ZOS didn't tell us anything about changes to CS rewards till DEC 19th live video. Instead we players kept at it because we thought we were bettering our chars, but really we screwed our chars by believing what ZOS told us. This has caused huge trust issues with ZOS now, and it's esp bad for me due to how I was treated in RIFT.

Thankfully ZOS hasn't messed up like TRION did with RIFT players a few weeks back. When the server I played on went offline for 1.5 days due to hardware fails on server and backup systems. The clown in charge of RIFT made the choice to not recover the data because it would have taken another day or two. Instead that joke decided to delete the data and restore the hardware and software so players could play sooner. Folks lost expansion worth of levels, items, and real money they invested. Sure some of those folks got most of the important stuff back, but the untold story is those of us that didn't get our stuff back. I never got my money spent back, items i bought, we all had to start over with our chars, and I didn't get compensated either. I was told that I wasn't a paying customer even though I've spent 100s of dollars in subs, expansions, and store credits.

I know ZOS isn't anywhere near this bad and I hope no game stuido ends up being that bad. However, this change they made the choice to not tell us about has robbed my char of what my char deserve. I'm a casual player and only care about PVE, questing, dungeons so I have no new content on my main till a new zone is release. I'm now leveling up a new char to replace my main so I can take full advantage of silver and gold even if it doesn't count for much. Some players have said that we're beta testing for console release; I use to laugh and say not so, I now believe them. Trust? Please! ZOS has to earn that back and it's going to take time.

EQBallzz · December 2014

Sharee wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Now the problem with Cyrodiil repeatable quests is that people have learned it is the only way for solo players to get XP at the endgame so they are becoming seriously camped by gankers now and it will become immensely worse after 1.6 so they CANNOT use those quests as a bandaid.

I agree with your prediction, except for the 'problem' part.

I think this is actually good! The PVE areas will become valuable resources that alliances will fight over, sparking both smaller and larger conflicts, drawing players away from the massive zergs around keeps, potentially even lessening the lag that is generated by too many people in one place.

Good if you want to PvP but it's a terrible replacement for silver/gold content which is what people are trying to say that it is. If you don't want to deal with PvP this is NOT a good alternative to the lost silver/gold content and is what everyone has been complaining about.

DanielMaxwell · December 2014

while I agree that ZOS handled the promise made on Oct 3 , a promise they should never have made , poorly at best .

I do not agree with those who blame ZOS for for their choice to play all of the available non-repeatable content when they could have chosen to play the repeatable content and save the non-repeatable for when the champion system is launched .

I think there needs to be some sort of compromise from ZOS and the players who are upset about that promise .
ZOS needs to apologize to the player base and explain what caused them to change their minds about the oct 3 promise in greater detail , with out any misdirection , then they have to date and why it took them so long to make the player base aware of this change.

The players who are upset need to come to terms with the fact they are not going to get more then 30 champion system points and come up with some plausible alternatives that are reasonably balanced that ZOS can review and possibly implement to alleviate their concerns about not being able advance in the new champion system in a competitive manner .

Bouvin · December 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

People are upset about the fact that they will have no comparable way to gain the Champion Points that were assured would be given by them completing Cadwell's.

ZOS already officially stated that they intend for all players to have a comparable way to gain champion points, regardless of whether they still have cadwell's quests to do or not.

Give them a chance.

ZOS also told us to GRIND after they changed vet xp.

Bouvin · December 2014

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

@Sharee, I believe you were putting your foot in your mouth...

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

We are hard at work on it and I’m here to answer a few of your questions. Most of these questions were also asked during our Guild Round Table in the last two days.

How will the current system change when the Champion System gets introduced?

The Champion System will introduce new past lvl 50 progression for your account where previously there was only an increase in Veteran Ranks and Attributes. The Champion System allows you spend points in the constellations to earn powerful passives such as giving your bash a chance to snare targets, reduce the amount of damage you take from flames or leech health on critical strikes.

What happens to the Veteran Ranks we currently have VR1-12?

We want to remove the Veteran Ranks from the game and rely on the more active progression provided by the Champion System. However, when we release the Champion System we will continue to maintain Veteran Ranks. We have several options as to how we will remove Veteran Ranks but all of them require time and careful planning. In the meantime, we are making Veteran Ranks earned by XP and reducing the overall time it takes to get a Veteran Rank. We are also rewarding an Attribute Point and a Skill Point each time you reach a Veteran Rank.

What happens to the Skill Points from VR1-12? Are they carried over to the CS instead?

The Skill Points we reward will not be removed from you! You will continue to have the same amount of Skill Points you do now. The Champion System does not reward any Skill Points, only gaining Veteran Ranks does. When we take out Veteran Ranks we will make sure that anyone that didn't make it max Veteran Rank will still rewarded with those Skill Points.

Does everyone that is a Veteran Rank get lowered back to lvl50? Or are the Ranks staying, but only being changed to lvl 51, 52, etc instead?

Similar to an answer before, we just don’t know yet.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

That clear enough, for ya?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1303290/#Comment_1303290

EDIT: Thanks to @astal360b14_ESO for finding this, earlier.

Don't admit ZOS to admit they said that (even though it's on forums) or to apologize for misleading us. Especially don't expect them to follow through with it.

Ethona · December 2014

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

while I agree that ZOS handled the promise made on Oct 3 , a promise they should never have made , poorly at best .

I do not agree with those who blame ZOS for for their choice to play all of the available non-repeatable content when they could have chosen to play the repeatable content and save the non-repeatable for when the champion system is launched .

I think there needs to be some sort of compromise from ZOS and the players who are upset about that promise .
ZOS needs to apologize to the player base and explain what caused them to change their minds about the oct 3 promise in greater detail , with out any misdirection , then they have to date and why it took them so long to make the player base aware of this change.

The players who are upset need to come to terms with the fact they are not going to get more then 30 champion system points and come up with some plausible alternatives that are reasonably balanced that ZOS can review and possibly implement to alleviate their concerns about not being able advance in the new champion system in a competitive manner .

Well they could reset silver/gold including Craglorn quests! That would allow us to do those quests again and not feel so cheated. That's what I'd call meet in the middle. Oh wait, this would be too hard for them, you know with all them achievements and such. Just give us the points we would have earned base on the XP we gained after VR1 ... you know, the plan they couldn't make work for whatever reason. Give me 60 CP and I'll call it a deal.

Elsonso · December 2014

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

while I agree that ZOS handled the promise made on Oct 3 , a promise they should never have made , poorly at best .

As quoted by several people in the forum, I do not consider what was said in October to be a promise in the sense of it being a commitment that they would take no other action or make no other decision.

People treating it like that may feel justified in doing it, but there may be a price to pay. What is likely to happen is that ZOS will shut down communication of any speculation or direction of development information that we get. We will find out what they are working on at the last minute, after all of the details are decided, QA is done, and it is ready for, or already on, PTS. If we are lucky enough to see it on PTS before it goes Live.

This may make the Broken Promises people happy, but it leaves less opportunity for comment and, in the end, may result in significantly more "what in the Oblivion are you doing?!" comments after the fact.

I prefer to view the statement from Maria as a direction of development. An intent to develop in a particular direction instead of a commitment to develop in a particular direction.

The burden placed on ZOS in this situation, whether or not you think it is a Promise or an Intent, is where they failed. They failed, repeatedly, to be up front about correcting that statement. To be honest, except for a statement from Kai, in German, they still have not.

This should have been said right away by Maria in ESO Live. People make mistakes. The spotlight was on. Eric was being disruptive. These things can get skipped. Having not said it there, it should have been very clearly stated in the "Clarification" press release that they posted on Monday.

Here, let me write the English version that you should have said up front. ZOS, you can just can just pop a CM in here and confirm it and we can call this done.

"We apologize that we have to change a statement that we made back in October where we said that your earned XP would continue to earn Champion Points. When we redesigned the system and made Champion Points more valuable, it became clear that this would not be possible. We are looking at ways to make sure that long-term players receive reward for their work and will let you know when we decide what that will be."

LonePirate · December 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

Here, let me write the English version that you should have said up front. ZOS, you can just can just pop a CM in here and confirm it and we can call this done.

"We apologize that we have to change a statement that we made back in October where we said that your earned XP would continue to earn Champion Points. When we redesigned the system and made Champion Points more valuable, it became clear that this would not be possible. We are looking at ways to make sure that long-term players receive reward for their work and will let you know when we decide what that will be."

Given ZOS' track record, the "reward" will probably be a new pet such as a blue mudcrab like those found on the northern shore of Stonefalls.

DanielMaxwell · December 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

while I agree that ZOS handled the promise made on Oct 3 , a promise they should never have made , poorly at best .

As quoted by several people in the forum, I do not consider what was said in October to be a promise in the sense of it being a commitment that they would take no other action or make no other decision.

People treating it like that may feel justified in doing it, but there may be a price to pay. What is likely to happen is that ZOS will shut down communication of any speculation or direction of development information that we get. We will find out what they are working on at the last minute, after all of the details are decided, QA is done, and it is ready for, or already on, PTS. If we are lucky enough to see it on PTS before it goes Live.

This may make the Broken Promises people happy, but it leaves less opportunity for comment and, in the end, may result in significantly more "what in the Oblivion are you doing?!" comments after the fact.

I prefer to view the statement from Maria as a direction of development. An intent to develop in a particular direction instead of a commitment to develop in a particular direction.

The burden placed on ZOS in this situation, whether or not you think it is a Promise or an Intent, is where they failed. They failed, repeatedly, to be up front about correcting that statement. To be honest, except for a statement from Kai, in German, they still have not.

This should have been said right away by Maria in ESO Live. People make mistakes. The spotlight was on. Eric was being disruptive. These things can get skipped. Having not said it there, it should have been very clearly stated in the "Clarification" press release that they posted on Monday.

Here, let me write the English version that you should have said up front. ZOS, you can just can just pop a CM in here and confirm it and we can call this done.

"We apologize that we have to change a statement that we made back in October where we said that your earned XP would continue to earn Champion Points. When we redesigned the system and made Champion Points more valuable, it became clear that this would not be possible. We are looking at ways to make sure that long-term players receive reward for their work and will let you know when we decide what that will be."

The part of your post I bolded is what they should have said in the op of this thread , sadly they did not .

what they said meets the basic definition of a promise , in they made a statement of intent to perform a specific action . the only caveat they made was that there was an unknown cap at the time that would be determined at a later date .

we do agree it appears that they should not have made that statement in the first place and that they have since handled the whole situation poorly at best

I also wish they would have communicated things better , as that would have reduced the amount forum raging by many of those here

@lordrichter I would ask in the future you don't clip the quote , or at least mention that you did clip it so what is quoted is not taken out of context .

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · December 2014

The sad thing is that all this bad feeling which WILL seriously harm ZoEs reputation and income has been done for a tiny amount of CPs.

The non repeatable part of the Caldwells silver and gold represent somewhere between 20 and 30 cps.

In their own estimation 1.4 million xp equaled 20 hours of gameplay. So one cp equals 280k xp. The entire quest, dolmen completion, delve completion, exploration and world boss completion xp consist of 5 to 6 million xp.

So they cheat people of access to a fairly small amount of cps that cannot be gained again, but in return they lost the confidence of their player base, lost all who cancels because of this and lost all the new potential players who now will read a lot of bad stuff on gaming sites and boards.

And it exposed just how bad the endgame actually is for solo players.

Was a few weeks balance really worth all that?

Trust me a month after the champ system goes live new players will see people with amounts of cp they can never catch up to anyway, and then all that zoe has lost by acting like they have will have given them nothing.

Artis · December 2014

I don't get it.

So are they removing all the relative progress I've made? There will be no difference between vr14 who spent months in trials, DSA, Cyrodiil.. and vr1 who just got his level?

If so, I am very disappointed. Looks like ZOS don't care about us, players, but just for the protocol - here's my "please, don't do this, it's unfair".

Please, don't do this, it's unfair. You devalue my playtime, you made all these hours wasted.

EQBallzz · December 2014

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

The sad thing is that all this bad feeling which WILL seriously harm ZoEs reputation and income has been done for a tiny amount of CPs.

The non repeatable part of the Caldwells silver and gold represent somewhere between 20 and 30 cps.

In their own estimation 1.4 million xp equaled 20 hours of gameplay. So one cp equals 280k xp. The entire quest, dolmen completion, delve completion, exploration and world boss completion xp consist of 5 to 6 million xp.

So they cheat people of access to a fairly small amount of cps that cannot be gained again, but in return they lost the confidence of their player base, lost all who cancels because of this and lost all the new potential players who now will read a lot of bad stuff on gaming sites and boards.

And it exposed just how bad the endgame actually is for solo players.

Was a few weeks balance really worth all that?

Trust me a month after the champ system goes live new players will see people with amounts of cp they can never catch up to anyway, and then all that zoe has lost by acting like they have will have given them nothing.

I agree with you for the most part except for your math. If you just go by the amount of XP required by each vet level which loosely ties to each vet zone that's 14 million XP at a minimum. However, the vet levels previously required much more XP so it's actually more than that. I would put the silver/gold content (if fully completed to include dolmens, wold bosses, quests etc..) at a minimum of 20 million XP. If you assume 1 CP is 280k XP that would be like 75 CP.

Still doesn't change your argument because the spread between 30 and 75 is almost nothing compared to the difference that will happen within a matter of weeks of the system going live.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · December 2014

EQBallzz wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

The sad thing is that all this bad feeling which WILL seriously harm ZoEs reputation and income has been done for a tiny amount of CPs.

The non repeatable part of the Caldwells silver and gold represent somewhere between 20 and 30 cps.

In their own estimation 1.4 million xp equaled 20 hours of gameplay. So one cp equals 280k xp. The entire quest, dolmen completion, delve completion, exploration and world boss completion xp consist of 5 to 6 million xp.

So they cheat people of access to a fairly small amount of cps that cannot be gained again, but in return they lost the confidence of their player base, lost all who cancels because of this and lost all the new potential players who now will read a lot of bad stuff on gaming sites and boards.

And it exposed just how bad the endgame actually is for solo players.

Was a few weeks balance really worth all that?

Trust me a month after the champ system goes live new players will see people with amounts of cp they can never catch up to anyway, and then all that zoe has lost by acting like they have will have given them nothing.

I agree with you for the most part except for your math. If you just go by the amount of XP required by each vet level which loosely ties to each vet zone that's 14 million XP at a minimum. However, the vet levels previously required much more XP so it's actually more than that. I would put the silver/gold content (if fully completed to include dolmens, wold bosses, quests etc..) at a minimum of 20 million XP. If you assume 1 CP is 280k XP that would be like 75 CP.

Still doesn't change your argument because the spread between 30 and 75 is almost nothing compared to the difference that will happen within a matter of weeks of the system going live.

Yes but you forget I talk about the non-repeatable part of the XP. Those are the XP you get from quest completion, dolmen completion, delve completion, dungeon completion, exploration and world boss completions.

Kill xp which now consist of the majority of the xp in the veteran areas does not count because we can all keep on killing stuff and get xp so nothing is really lost there.

Its only the non renewable xp that is really lost and they consist of around 20 to 25 cp per V14 char.

EQBallzz · December 2014

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

The sad thing is that all this bad feeling which WILL seriously harm ZoEs reputation and income has been done for a tiny amount of CPs.

The non repeatable part of the Caldwells silver and gold represent somewhere between 20 and 30 cps.

In their own estimation 1.4 million xp equaled 20 hours of gameplay. So one cp equals 280k xp. The entire quest, dolmen completion, delve completion, exploration and world boss completion xp consist of 5 to 6 million xp.

So they cheat people of access to a fairly small amount of cps that cannot be gained again, but in return they lost the confidence of their player base, lost all who cancels because of this and lost all the new potential players who now will read a lot of bad stuff on gaming sites and boards.

And it exposed just how bad the endgame actually is for solo players.

Was a few weeks balance really worth all that?

Trust me a month after the champ system goes live new players will see people with amounts of cp they can never catch up to anyway, and then all that zoe has lost by acting like they have will have given them nothing.

I agree with you for the most part except for your math. If you just go by the amount of XP required by each vet level which loosely ties to each vet zone that's 14 million XP at a minimum. However, the vet levels previously required much more XP so it's actually more than that. I would put the silver/gold content (if fully completed to include dolmens, wold bosses, quests etc..) at a minimum of 20 million XP. If you assume 1 CP is 280k XP that would be like 75 CP.

Still doesn't change your argument because the spread between 30 and 75 is almost nothing compared to the difference that will happen within a matter of weeks of the system going live.

Yes but you forget I talk about the non-repeatable part of the XP. Those are the XP you get from quest completion, dolmen completion, delve completion, dungeon completion, exploration and world boss completions.

Kill xp which now consist of the majority of the xp in the veteran areas does not count because we can all keep on killing stuff and get xp so nothing is really lost there.

Its only the non renewable xp that is really lost and they consist of around 20 to 25 cp per V14 char.

True to a point. It's only repeatable if you want to grind mobs. If you don't want to grind then the XP gained from killing while completing the quests is just part of the questing process. I'm not going to go back and trace all my steps through vet content to just kill the mobs when there are no quests there. That makes no sense. There is also XP associated with exploration, chests, killing world bosses, completing dungeons and delvs etc..In the case of dungeons they only give that big XP boost the first time. Essentially, the most XP-rich time is the first run through the vet content. Nobody is going to go back and just kill random things. If anyone is going to grind they will just go to Craglorn.