Snipe and it's implication on PvP, from a long time Bow user

Thechemicals

3 Dk's can capture a keep as well. So can 2 Dk's and 1 Templar. 1 Dk can already capture a resource by himself. Again, the point is just bad.

Snipe, is impressive finally. Just like impulse is impressive and Critical rush and stacking multiple shields over anulment. Nothing here to complain about really.

The attack on snipe in this thread shortsighted and the Op cant see the bigger picture. People are actuallly afraid to die now and res 1-3 minutes away from the big battle....so its obvious that a 38+ meter attack skill would be popular....and valueable....not imbalanced.

Erock25

Thechemicals wrote: »

3 Dk's can capture a keep as well. So can 2 Dk's and 1 Templar. 1 Dk can already capture a resource by himself. Again, the point is just bad.

Snipe, is impressive finally. Just like impulse is impressive and Critical rush and stacking multiple shields over anulment. Nothing here to complain about really.

The attack on snipe in this thread shortsighted and the Op cant see the bigger picture. People are actuallly afraid to die now and res 1-3 minutes away from the big battle....so its obvious that a 38+ meter attack skill would be popular....and valueable....not imbalanced.

A.) Not many people use Annulment anymore and stacking shields over it doesn't mean jack squat anymore.
B.) I'm surprised you bring up the bigger picture when what should be the most obvious bigger picture is that >50% of people are using bow now. It could even be more than 50%. Unless you are running in a coordinated zerg ball, bow is where it is at, and that is a problem.

Thechemicals

not sure what your point is..... Bow is popular yes.

Thejollygreenone

I really don't see the need for a deadzone. My thoughts on why:

If you're getting sniped in melee range and you're not spamming your bash function, I don't know what to tell you.

I've been a bow user since the game launched, but I've also been a 2h user since the game launched, and I can say that all I need to do to kill other archers is switch to my 2h and close the gap.

As soon as I'm in melee range the enemy archer might as well be dead since they've relied on spamming an ability that is seemingly very easily countered. Unless I'm making significant mistakes in combat with one, snipe spammers, and archers in general, are pretty easy kills.

If there's absolutely no way around the lack of a deadzone, at least make it no more than 6 meters so bow users in PvE wont get monumentally nerfed and not able to use their bow on a large amount of boss fights that require stacking up.

The cast time being brought up to 1.3 seconds makes sense at least for consistencies sake. However all of these values (cast time and min range) would have to be tested in a PvE setting to make sure it doesn't put Bow back to the bottom of the DPS barrel along with 2h.

It being number one in dps as it is now isn't necessary to be maintained of course, I just ask that it not be nerfed so hard that it drops off completely in competitiveness.

If blind nerfs to bow start occurring because a bunch of people complained about it on the PvP forums, I personally will probably just quit the game. I am JUST NOW allowed into trials with a bow build, would be really depressing if that got taken away so soon

I know that this is a PvP thread and I'm talking a bit too much about PvE, but changes to one side can't be achieved without implications to the other side, and both sides need to remain effective, obviously. Hence the term 'balance'. ^.^

Kypho

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Hello all,

I am Dean the Cat, and I would like to discuss snipe, the favourite flavour of the month skill in Cyrodiil since patch 1.5.

This will be a long read, and there is no TL;DR version, so be warned.

Do note that I am discussing Snipe from the point of view of a long term bow user. I have been using my bow since beta, back when bows were subpar and the game was dominated by the infamous "Stick and Dress" (There were no jerkins back in patch 1.0, so yes, dresses) combination.

Snipe has undergone many changes since it's first incarnation in patch 1.0. To put it simply, snipe, at that time, was hands down the worst weapon feat in the game. It had a deadzone of 20m, a stamina cost of more then double (Back then, medium armour didn't have cost reduction on stamina usage) then it's current incarnation along with a crippling 3 second channel, which meant that you were completely exposed during the cast and it was completely useless in open combat. At the time, I didn't even bother slotting Snipe, and instead went for a heavy attack as my stealth opener.

In comes Patch 1.2. Snipe undergoes buffs, turning it from unusable to slightly below average. Stamina cost was reduced, along with a reduction in the deadzone from 20m to 10m. The channel time is also cut short, from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.

In Patch 1.3, Snipe receives a further reduction to it's channel time, from 2 seconds to 1.8 seconds. Snipe becomes decent, and well suited for many different uses. It took some skill in positioning to pull snipe off, due to it's innate deadzone of 10m and it's 1.8 second channel time. An archer with decent positioning staying at a reasonable (15-36m) distance could support allies fighting on the front lines with Snipe, as the healing debuff from the morph Lethal Arrow or the extra DPS provided by the morph Focused Aim (The bonus damage used to apply to all ranged attacks, not just bows) could turn the tide of a battle if the right target was focused down with snipe. "Immortal" DKs stopped being so immortal after they have been hit with a healing debuff. Scales was not as prevalent as it is today, due to reflect costing the caster resources and most 1vX DKs not slotting it at the time.

Now, in comes Patch 1.5, which reduced the damage of snipe by 5%, but also reduced the cast time to 1.1 seconds as well as completely removing the deadzone of the ability. This change completely broke the ability, turning it from a balanced ability which demanded some degree of positioning skill from the user to a broken overpowered ability that is even more spammable and cheaper then it's magical counterparts, namely Crystal Shard and Solar Flare while maintaining it's incredible sneak attack potential and it's incredibly useful DPS buff OR healing debuff.

As a result of this change that was mainly targeted at PvE sustained DPS, it's now what you face in every fight in Cyrodiil. Archers are now casting Snipe at point blank range, easily doing 900-1k NON-CRIT damage due to how easy it is to push weapon damage way above softcap along with sets like Morag Tong, Kyne's Flight, Hawk's Eye and Kyne's Kiss providing unique bonuses to bows that are not available to other weapons. (I know Morag Tong isn't bow specific, but bows benefit the most from Morag Tong.)

It's now easy to solo capture resources with a bow, and it's possible to capture a KEEP with 2 archers + 1 healer, as tested by my guild, SatGNU. A few weeks ago, when Thornblade EU was painted Red and the only smurf raid present was busy at Fort Rayles, I headed up to Scroll Temple Ni-Mohk. There, with Lethal Arrow, Mass Hysteria, Healing Ward and Poison Injection, I managed to clear the scroll-less scroll temple of Ni-Mohk of ALL of it's temple guards. Think about it. A single lone Nightblade archer, managing to clear a SCROLL TEMPLE solo. Imagine what a raid of archers, working in tandem will do.

I really hate how at long last, bow is actually top tier, it becomes absolutely gamebreaking and everyone who holds a bow is automatically labeled as a "noob snipe monkey" and looked at with disgust. In my perspective, this change to snipe is a huge middle finger to all the skilled bow users out there, people like Itse and Decimus, who I hold lots of respect for. As far as I know, Itse quit ESO over the changes to bow and stealth in general, which is a huge shame, as I always held him in huge respect as a rival. It's kind of sad, that the bow will need to be nerfed, just after they had been made good, and I don't think the stigma associated with the bow will ever go away. These changes to snipe removes all vestiges of skill that used to be required of a good bow user, which means all the skill of all good bow users before Patch 1.5 means absolutely nothing.

Snipe needs to be nerfed. For the good of PvP, it has to be toned down. It's current incarnation is over the top, and I have removed Snipe from my bar as I refuse to use something this broken. Snipe needs it's 10m deadzone restored, along with it's cast time increased to at least 1.5 seconds. Right now, how to be a good bow user is pretty much this:

1) Smash head into keyboard
2) Did the target die? If the target hasn't died, repeat step 1. Else go to step 3.
3) Move on to the next target, repeat step 1.

Please Zenimax, make the right choice, nerf snipe. This is coming from a long time bow user. Snipe has to be nerfed, for the good of PvP in ESO.

To all of you who have stayed and read this long, I thank you for your patience.

May your road lead you to warm sands.

Not worse than streakspam curse, fragment and streakspam 20 times with shield spam.... they can do it.
Not worse than dk with its spamming while tanking and healing and doting.
not worse than healspam, blazespam almost forever. Not even near that bad as you described it.
Speaking about sets, spell damage is lower, but get more benefit than twice as much weapon power.
Stamina build like archers, cant block as much and break CC mostly. WHY? Stamina: attack cost stamina, block cost stamina, roll cost stamina, nubCC break cost stamina. Magicka is used to spam the hell out of server... attack, defense, anything + has stamina to hold block and spam crap, roll if needed, break CC if needed, still can spamm the hell.

i cant tell you how many times i attacked an archer after he shot 2 lethal and some attack, he blocked, and after a CC he was just waiting for the spam without defense what killd him easy. and if he out of stealth, he can be stunned while casting snipe or its morphs. easy and he is dead. whit those sets, he cant spam über magicka based spells, or cloak, so defenseless.

Erock25

Kypho wrote: »

Not worse than streakspam curse, fragment and streakspam 20 times with shield spam.... they can do it.
Not worse than dk with its spamming while tanking and healing and doting.
not worse than healspam, blazespam almost forever. Not even near that bad as you described it.

Why are you bringing up Sorc, DK, and Templars? This is a topic about a weapon ability and not a nerf NB thread.

Durham

We have stopped PVPing due to the 23332386544 bow users .... The dps and debuffing is just crazy everyone has a bow... we will do pve until it improves in a later patch...

Thejollygreenone

Durham wrote: »

We have stopped PVPing due to the 23332386544 bow users .... The dps and debuffing is just crazy everyone has a bow... we will do pve until it improves in a later patch...

It wasn't a problem when everyone was running a staff and shield? :O

Thechemicals

Durham wrote: »

We have stopped PVPing due to the 23332386544 bow users .... The dps and debuffing is just crazy everyone has a bow... we will do pve until it improves in a later patch...

How many is we? Hopefully at least 100 of you so the lag can lessen.

Durham

3 of us rvr every night... but after the last patch we have stopped... its much more then us.... also #of players is not causing the lag its the ball groups spamming of abilities....

Thechemicals

GL in your pve.

Durham

Thechemicals wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

We have stopped PVPing due to the 23332386544 bow users .... The dps and debuffing is just crazy everyone has a bow... we will do pve until it improves in a later patch...

How many is we? Hopefully at least 100 of you so the lag can lessen.

Why so much hate i did not say anything about nerfing your anytime 1k+ damage that also debuffs healing .. and can be used at a safe range

Thechemicals

Durham wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

We have stopped PVPing due to the 23332386544 bow users .... The dps and debuffing is just crazy everyone has a bow... we will do pve until it improves in a later patch...

How many is we? Hopefully at least 100 of you so the lag can lessen.

Why so much hate i did not say anything about nerfing your anytime 1k+ damage that also debuffs healing .. and can be used at a safe range

Actually i have been wrecking people with Templar since April. The dk i have, he is mainly a 2h. My bow loadout is only snipe and 4 class skills. Why? Because snipe kicks ass as it should.

Columba

elausche_ESO wrote: »

Changes to attempt to balance Snipe and it's morphs.

-Fix Lethal Arrow, so that it does not stack with itself for the healing debuff.
-Increase cast time to 1.3 seconds to match other cast times in the game.
-Add a 6+ meter minimum range. If the enemy can melee you, they can't be sniped.

These seem reasonable, and it rely on a bow.

Cody

one problem i have is the point blank spam. due to the low cost time, interrupting snipe with venom arrow/bash is almost impossible, and people can spam it at point blank without any kind of strategic thought.

the only thing i want changed is the cast time. NOT back to 3 seconds. heck no. That will make the ability completly useless. Nor back to 2 seconds. a 1.5-1.8 second cast time will suit it just fine, while still forcing the user to have to plan instead of spam.

Lava_Croft

Thechemicals wrote: »

3 Dk's can capture a keep as well. So can 2 Dk's and 1 Templar. 1 Dk can already capture a resource by himself. Again, the point is just bad.

Are you trolling or just not realizing that this thread is about Snipe, from the weapon skill line called Bow. It's not about classes.

Your point is indeed just that, bad.

Thejollygreenone

Cody wrote: »

one problem i have is the point blank spam. due to the low cost time, interrupting snipe with venom arrow/bash is almost impossible, and people can spam it at point blank without any kind of strategic thought.

the only thing i want changed is the cast time. NOT back to 3 seconds. heck no. That will make the ability completly useless. Nor back to 2 seconds. a 1.5-1.8 second cast time will suit it just fine, while still forcing the user to have to plan instead of spam.

If it's being spammed all you have to do is throw multiple interrupts out and one of them will go through. If melee and simply using bash, that's not very expensive.

I just want to point out it's not everyone that is having trouble interrupting someone spamming Snipe. I for one get it done just fine.

EDIT: Granted, I am speaking from experience in 1v1 situations, not large group siege combat.
I mainly PvP via duels and the occasional getting caught/catching someone en route between keeps.

Cody

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

one problem i have is the point blank spam. due to the low cost time, interrupting snipe with venom arrow/bash is almost impossible, and people can spam it at point blank without any kind of strategic thought.

the only thing i want changed is the cast time. NOT back to 3 seconds. heck no. That will make the ability completly useless. Nor back to 2 seconds. a 1.5-1.8 second cast time will suit it just fine, while still forcing the user to have to plan instead of spam.

If it's being spammed all you have to do is throw multiple interrupts out and one of them will go through. If melee and simply using bash, that's not very expensive.

I just want to point out it's not everyone that is having trouble interrupting someone spamming Snipe. I for one get it done just fine.

EDIT: Granted, I am speaking from experience in 1v1 situations, not large group siege combat.
I mainly PvP via duels and the occasional getting caught/catching someone en route between keeps.

i have bashed several people using snipe and it fails to interrupt them 75% of the time. i have more luck with venom arrow, but even then it only works out half the time. and i dont have multiple interrupts. i have venom arrow, bash, and pure damage/ survivalbility abilties.

kijima

elausche_ESO wrote: »

Changes to attempt to balance Snipe and it's morphs.

-Fix Lethal Arrow, so that it does not stack with itself for the healing debuff.
-Increase cast time to 1.3 seconds to match other cast times in the game.
-Add a 6+ meter minimum range. If the enemy can melee you, they can't be sniped.

100% agree with this ^

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ ^ This would help PvP a great deal without upsetting the PvE applecart.

You guys have already said that the health debuff stacking with lethal arrow is not intended, so that will get a fix. TICK!

Snipe deadzone (or lack there of) as it stands currently is silly. FIX PLEASE!

Cast time needs a re-think to stop the spamming, if it goes back to 1.5 look out for triple hits, 1.1 means spam. 1.3 seconds might just be enough to counter both. FIX PLEASE!

Thejollygreenone

Cody wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

one problem i have is the point blank spam. due to the low cost time, interrupting snipe with venom arrow/bash is almost impossible, and people can spam it at point blank without any kind of strategic thought.

the only thing i want changed is the cast time. NOT back to 3 seconds. heck no. That will make the ability completly useless. Nor back to 2 seconds. a 1.5-1.8 second cast time will suit it just fine, while still forcing the user to have to plan instead of spam.

If it's being spammed all you have to do is throw multiple interrupts out and one of them will go through. If melee and simply using bash, that's not very expensive.

I just want to point out it's not everyone that is having trouble interrupting someone spamming Snipe. I for one get it done just fine.

EDIT: Granted, I am speaking from experience in 1v1 situations, not large group siege combat.
I mainly PvP via duels and the occasional getting caught/catching someone en route between keeps.

i have bashed several people using snipe and it fails to interrupt them 75% of the time. i have more luck with venom arrow, but even then it only works out half the time. and i dont have multiple interrupts. i have venom arrow, bash, and pure damage/ survivalbility abilties.

I meant multiple of the same interrupt, i.e. bash a few times in a row, which is really inexpensive. You have Venom Arrow you mentioned, if you light attack weave with Venom Arrow over and over (which the ability excels at) some interrupts are bound to land.

If interrupts are successfully going off, the sniper will be shut down if he's being stunned every 3 seconds from said interrupts. I don't feel the need to employ such repetitive tactics, normally one or two bashes gets the first stun off and is enough to turn the fight in my favor.

Although if people are having real trouble interrupting for whatever reason, spam right back at them, match Snipe spam with interrupt spam. However I do want to assert one more time that I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself here, just that if one person has no issues interrupting why should anyone else.

EDIT: There's a reason Wrecking Blow isn't used back to back in PvP, being in melee range and using a cast time is a huge defensive disadvantage with the susceptibility to really any form of hard cc, let alone the ever inexpensive interrupt function.

k2blader

/Respect

May your road lead you to warm sands.

I miss snow..

Obus

I agree with every single word from OP.

Also its sad to lose players like Itse, just because this nonsense patches.

DeanTheCat

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

one problem i have is the point blank spam. due to the low cost time, interrupting snipe with venom arrow/bash is almost impossible, and people can spam it at point blank without any kind of strategic thought.

the only thing i want changed is the cast time. NOT back to 3 seconds. heck no. That will make the ability completly useless. Nor back to 2 seconds. a 1.5-1.8 second cast time will suit it just fine, while still forcing the user to have to plan instead of spam.

If it's being spammed all you have to do is throw multiple interrupts out and one of them will go through. If melee and simply using bash, that's not very expensive.

I just want to point out it's not everyone that is having trouble interrupting someone spamming Snipe. I for one get it done just fine.

EDIT: Granted, I am speaking from experience in 1v1 situations, not large group siege combat.
I mainly PvP via duels and the occasional getting caught/catching someone en route between keeps.

i have bashed several people using snipe and it fails to interrupt them 75% of the time. i have more luck with venom arrow, but even then it only works out half the time. and i dont have multiple interrupts. i have venom arrow, bash, and pure damage/ survivalbility abilties.

I meant multiple of the same interrupt, i.e. bash a few times in a row, which is really inexpensive. You have Venom Arrow you mentioned, if you light attack weave with Venom Arrow over and over (which the ability excels at) some interrupts are bound to land.

If interrupts are successfully going off, the sniper will be shut down if he's being stunned every 3 seconds from said interrupts. I don't feel the need to employ such repetitive tactics, normally one or two bashes gets the first stun off and is enough to turn the fight in my favor.

Although if people are having real trouble interrupting for whatever reason, spam right back at them, match Snipe spam with interrupt spam. However I do want to assert one more time that I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself here, just that if one person has no issues interrupting why should anyone else.

EDIT: There's a reason Wrecking Blow isn't used back to back in PvP, being in melee range and using a cast time is a huge defensive disadvantage with the susceptibility to really any form of hard cc, let alone the ever inexpensive interrupt function.

In theory, Interrupts seem like the natural counter to snipe spam. However, in practice, due to the constant lag (ZoS, you still need to improve your netcode you know) and the cornucopia of effects and abilites firing off in a siege environment, as well as the fact that Archers are normally standing behind a front line of close ranged fighters, often firing from a height advantage, makes interrupts often not possible.

Therefore, in such an environment, Snipe becomes extremely powerful and potent, further exacerbated by the sheer rate of fire at which it can be shot. Even if you manage to sneak up or somehow close the gap to the Archers, it's an almost certain thing that you will be shot multiple times by snipe, at melee range. I have seen with my own eyes Archers of all factions using Snipe at close melee range, often as the poor sod who has managed to get past the line of close ranged defenders to reach the Archer line get shot down by 4-5 Snipes which connected while he is using a gap closer.

You may argue that this is a siege, and this is a natural course of things. However, this "Snipe at point blank range and go trollolololol" phenomenon is applying to gankers as well. I know Nightblades who Snipes, then uses Ambush to get close, then snipes again at point blank to get the Ambush damage bonus, often killing the poor victim. Do you think this is honestly "right"?

The whole idea of the weapon feat "Snipe" is that a skilled marksman stops to carefully aim an arrow at a gap in the opponent's armor, thereby dealing massive damage with a single arrow. If I gave you a bow in a real life combat situation, would you have the presence of mind to take aim for 1.1 seconds to aim at a weak point in your opponent's armor, all the while being slashed/burnt/shocked/frozen/stabbed/crushed by your opponent in melee range? I highly doubt it.

EDIT: Apparently the word "[snip]" is censored, so I have replaced it with the less fanciful term "Gap"

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

DeanTheCat

k2blader wrote: »

/Respect

May your road lead you to warm sands.

I miss snow..

You can't grow Moon Sugar in the snows of Skyrim. This one has to import from Khajiiti caravans at highly inflated prices.

Obus wrote: »

I agree with every single word from OP.

Also its sad to lose players like Itse, just because this nonsense patches.

Agreed.

*Moment of silence for Itse*

Xsorus

Other then the stacking healing debuff I honestly don't see how you guys are having so much issue with lethal arrow. I can get comparable damage to it on non sneak attacks by spamming poison injection plus light attack. If anything the patch has removed my ability to open with 1.7k lethal arrow crits plus heavy/pi/light attack combo that instant killed most people. Against other archers I simply wreck them left and right

kijima

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

3 Dk's can capture a keep as well. So can 2 Dk's and 1 Templar. 1 Dk can already capture a resource by himself. Again, the point is just bad.

Are you trolling or just not realizing that this thread is about Snipe, from the weapon skill line called Bow. It's not about classes.

Your point is indeed just that, bad.

Agreed.

I'm a NB (Not that it matters, because weapon skill not class skill) and can solo a resource very easily, could before the 1.1 second timer, can with it. I'm an average player.

Bow is a strong weapon skill since 1.3 tbh and from 1.5 onwards bow is a friggin chain gun!

DeanTheCat

kijima wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

3 Dk's can capture a keep as well. So can 2 Dk's and 1 Templar. 1 Dk can already capture a resource by himself. Again, the point is just bad.

Are you trolling or just not realizing that this thread is about Snipe, from the weapon skill line called Bow. It's not about classes.

Your point is indeed just that, bad.

Agreed.

I'm a NB (Not that it matters, because weapon skill not class skill) and can solo a resource very easily, could before the 1.1 second timer, can with it. I'm an average player.

Bow is a strong weapon skill since 1.3 tbh and from 1.5 onwards bow is a friggin chain gun!

I think this would be a better representation, but eh, each to his own.



Behold the Railway Rifle Bow

EDIT: Formatting

kijima

Off topic, but I vaguely remember Mythbusters making an arrow machine gun of sorts.

It had to be made all from period materials of roman times, so mostly timber and such. Was damn effective from memory, a little bit of a gattling gun, but with arrows.

DeanTheCat

kijima wrote: »

Off topic, but I vaguely remember Mythbusters making an arrow machine gun of sorts.

It had to be made all from period materials of roman times, so mostly timber and such. Was damn effective from memory, a little bit of a gattling gun, but with arrows.

That's actually an Asian siege weapon, the 2 most notable ones were the Chinese Houjianche and the Korean Hwacha. Both were used as anti-infantry siege weapons, but with one notable difference. The Chinese Houjianche shot balista sized arrows, whereas the Korean Hwacha shot smaller arrows that carried gunpowder and shrapnel instead of an arrowhead, essentially making the Hwacha the earliest form of a Missile Launcher.

The Houjianche:




The Hwacha:

Keron

Francescolg wrote: »

For an 8% magic crit set I've to farm PvE (...) whereas there are 3 (!) craftable sets which offer 8% weapon crit as set bonus.. tbc

Or spend 2 Skill points, one cast bar slot and get 3 times as much. Skill's called "inner light". And weapon crit set users can't use these set bonus slots to increase stats. With the high soft caps for health/stam/mag this is actually a much overlooked benefit handicap.

elausche_ESO wrote: »

-Fix Lethal Arrow, so that it does not stack with itself for the healing debuff.
-Increase cast time to 1.3 seconds to match other cast times in the game.
-Add a 6+ meter minimum range. If the enemy can melee you, they can't be sniped.

Dear developers, bow users, bow critics and unconcerned.

Please listen to this. And for the love of your own statement, make ONE change at a time. No more knee jerks. Really.

Fix stacking debuff. If the stacking is intended, fix your intention. Wait how it plays out. Two, three weeks of play time to get a reliable data sample.

If still not good, add the mentioned 6m deadzone. Again, WAIT and SEE what happens.

Then, and only if required, bring in the changes to cast time. And listen to the people saying that the extended cast time has to be remain prohibitive to multi-attack-weaving-snipe-oneshots.

I am no highly skilled bow user, but I also have used one from start of early access. Sometimes I suck at playing it, and badly. I'm happy with the bow changes because for the first time I can actually sometimes kill people with it even without the stealth opener (not because I point blank snipe them, too slow for that, get bashed each and every time I try). I am going to stay bow user no matter what will be done to the skill or bows in general. Because all things considered, bow is what I want to play.

But OP has one absolutely true point that at some point just has to sink in: Bow has been buffed three or four iterations back to back. Instead of waiting and giving it time and following their own adage "Balancing is a slow process, we don't want to overdo it" they have done exactly that: Overdone it.