Clarification regarding experience gain within Veteran Ranks

Ysne58

I'm disappointed. I feel like I have been lied to. Leveling is not faster, but they said they expected it to be.

WraithAzraiel

I like how no one from ZOS has even ventured into this thread to comment on our gripes. No reassurances, no further explanations, no nothin'. Sure it's the weekend but there's always someone around to correct a post with cuss words in it, or to point out naming and shaming.

How does 5 pages of general dissatisfaction not warrant an answer yet?

Nebthet78

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

I like how no one from ZOS has even ventured into this thread to comment on our gripes. No reassurances, no further explanations, no nothin'. Sure it's the weekend but there's always someone around to correct a post with cuss words in it, or to point out naming and shaming.

How does 5 pages of general dissatisfaction not warrant an answer yet?

Why do you think they put this thread where they did? It's so they could bury and ignore player dissatisfaction and pretend it doesn't exist.

BergisMacBride

Winnower wrote: »

Unfortunately your numbers in this post don't make any sense. It took 2-5 hours maximum doing regular stuff to do a vet level before 1.5.

If you got a great Craglorn grind it was even faster for some levels.

If your numbers on based on the listed time period in the above post, then you have a disconnect of understanding and perception with your player base. Trust us, we know how long it takes to get a level. If you change things so that it is slower we know with horrible precision how much slower it is.

I have 2 VR14s, and a VR7 in a 3rd alliance that is now stranded - not able to level.

And if the current situation doesn't change *significantly* until the champion system comes out you're going to lose a large percentage of your player base between now and Christmas.

Frankly you have a choice to allow 50+ level toons to level a whole level in 2-5 hours, or risk losing vast numbers of current players.

This needs to get through to the powers that be, and something needs to be adjusted in a manner of days, not weeks.

You must, at the very least, allow people to gain 1 - 1.5 levels per zone in Silver and Gold from the basic questing, dolmens, delves, and dungeons (on a single pass). Anything less than this and you get to learn first hand the meaning of Exodus.

I'm a HUGE fan of this game; I own 2 pre-order Imperial editions of this game. Please listen.

^^^Agree

@ZOS_GinaBruno, please print the above post and make sure the Devs read every word carefully. It encapsulates most if not all of what the playerbase is telling you in these threads.

I, too, am a huge fanboy of this game, but this issue highlights an incredible disconnect on the part of the Devs on what is actually going on in their own game. I have no idea how the Devs derived the appropriate time factor for levelling in your original post, but I can tell you the players aren't and don't think of it in terms of time. We are telling you pre 1.5, one VR zone would get you from 1-1.5 VR levels. ANY result less than this after the adjustments will not be well-received by your players, regardless of what is happening in the future regarding XP, Champ levels, etc...

I also have 2 Imperial edition accounts and have been here since early access. My levelling VR chars are opening mail, logging in to feed horses and PvPing but all active questing and levelling has ceased on them until this is addressed.

Maverick827

HomerSamson wrote: »

Their low estimate of 10 hours=5.3 mobs/minute so maybe we should be grinding public dungeons?

You get significantly less XP from mobs in public dungeons. Even the public group dungeons. You get less for a full group of enemies than you do for one "world" mob.

Adhal

It still floors me how idiotic this move is. Does anyone at ZOS pay attention to the games that are coming out???

In the next few months you have Dragon Age:Inquisition, a new wow expansion, and The Witcher 3 coming out.... And you guys pull this??? Right before christmas season??Really??? You guys OK? Feeling down? Just want to end it all??

You guys are about to get slaughtered at the prime time to move your game. If this is what you people think it takes to compete in this market, I think its time for you to "rethink your marketing strategy"

GuinevereDeNoir

timidobserver wrote: »

Has anyone tried mob grinding? That was the best way to level 1-50, so in theory, it should be good for veteran leveling now since we are back to XP.

You won't go far with mob grinding. According to my experiences yesterday, the fastest way to gain xp is opening treasure chests (LOL). In vet 10 region, opening a chest gains 910 xp, killing a one-star level mob (like a troll, or giant) is only 680 xp. So if you terribly need xp, get an add-on that shows treasure chest locations, and do lockpicking! ...

Valencer

Winnower wrote: »

Unfortunately your numbers in this post don't make any sense. It took 2-5 hours maximum doing regular stuff to do a vet level before 1.5.

If you got a great Craglorn grind it was even faster for some levels.

Not everybody has been grinding. Their estimates are perfectly valid for people who were questing pre-1.5.

2-5 hours per veteran rank while questing through Cadwell's Silver or Gold is not sustainable and would leave you way short of VR10 upon completion of Cadwell's Gold.

I also wouldn't consider grinding "doing regular stuff" in a game like ESO, but to each his own.

Maverick827

GuinevereDeNoir wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Has anyone tried mob grinding? That was the best way to level 1-50, so in theory, it should be good for veteran leveling now since we are back to XP.

You won't go far with mob grinding. According to my experiences yesterday, the fastest way to gain xp is opening treasure chests (LOL). In vet 10 region, opening a chest gains 910 xp, killing a one-star level mob (like a troll, or giant) is only 680 xp. So if you terribly need xp, get an add-on that shows treasure chest locations, and do lockpicking! ...

But you can't find treasure chests as consisteny as you can kill mobs.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Looks to me that this is another desperate attempt to try and force people to do Craglorn group quests. They take away ANY over way to level up veteran ranks, public dungeons, boss farms, Cadwells silver and gold and even pve i Cyrodiil so there is nothing left to do than form groups for the dailies in Craglorn.

They seem to have this strange idea that people WANT group quests outside dungeons, that's how they initially tried to design all veteran content.

Someone at ZoS must really be but hurt over how unpopular those group quests are and not they REALLY want to force people to do them and the only thing they achieve is to make many many more people quit the game.

Listen ZOS: PEOPLE WILL RATHER QUIT THAN DO YOUR CRAGLORN GROUP QUESTS!!!!!

Mumyo

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Looks to me that this is another desperate attempt to try and force people to do Craglorn group quests. They take away ANY over way to level up veteran ranks, public dungeons, boss farms, Cadwells silver and gold and even pve i Cyrodiil so there is nothing left to do than form groups for the dailies in Craglorn.

They seem to have this strange idea that people WANT group quests outside dungeons, that's how they initially tried to design all veteran content.

Someone at ZoS must really be but hurt over how unpopular those group quests are and not they REALLY want to force people to do them and the only thing they achieve is to make many many more people quit the game.

Listen ZOS: PEOPLE WILL RATHER QUIT THAN DO YOUR CRAGLORN GROUP QUESTS!!!!!

Yep. Every guy i know stopped leveling and waits for a fix like 10x more xp but from what i read this is not going to happen!

@Zenimax GOOOD job killing ur game again.

I also stopped leveling because i take 100times longer to reach vr levels.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Shrekmom

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’ve read your concerns about whether or not it’s worthwhile to continue playing your Veteran characters. The short answer is yes.

No it's not worth it.

Srugzal

Nazon_Katts

Mob Grind seems to be at the same pace as pre-Vet. So expect about10h per VR.

Maverick827

One positive note, though maybe I'm just making things up, but it feels like leveling skills/abilities is faster after this change.

Ysne58

I'm wondering why we still don't have any feedback from the devs.

Dagoth_Rac

If the point was to make earning Champion Points more uniform across play styles (grinding, dungeon running, PvP, questing. exploration), that is a great idea. You don't want one play style to be way, way ahead of others in number of Champion Points. Especially since it sounds like there will be (nearly) no limit on Champion Points.

But the Champion System is not out yet! You cannot put a leveling system in place for the Champion System before the Champion System is out!

If anything, you should be making it where it is easy for everyone to reach VR14 before the Champion System goes live, so we are all starting from a similar baseline.

Otherwise, all you have done is give the grinders an early lead that others can no longer catch.

It was one thing when VR14 was end of the line. If some got there fast and some got there slow, we would all be the same in the end.

But there is no end of the line for Champion Points. So the people who grinded 8 characters to VR14 in a couple weeks will have a permanent advantage over people who did not use that play style.

If you want to stop rewarding one play style over another, this was the wrong way to do it.

Esha76

As you can see in my signature, I am quite an alt-a-holic. And a bit of a psycho, and one of those reasons is that i have completed Cadwells Gold on 3 of those VRs. The VR7 is in Malabal Tor, the VR5 just wrapped up Cadwell's Silver, and the VR1 DK is about to become a VR2 at the end of Glenumba. All those other EP toons hit VR2 at the very end of Glenumbra, exactly like this toon post 1.5.2. I am also a completionist. Every one of my toons have all their zone quest achievements. Bosses, Anchors, etc.

There is no way leveling is advancing faster. Exploration and chest xp just isn't any kind of a significant increase in speed to level. Also, my VR11 has been doing pledges each day, and she hasn't even gained a full 10% xp toward VR12.

I'm sorry Miss Bruno, who ever is stating that there is only a minor mistake in this 1.5.2 update with xp leveling speed needs to re-check their math. Or you guys seriously mislead us. Either way, this concept still needs more work.

But I guess with the champ system coming in the near future, all this is rather futile as these ranks are going away, therefore more important things to focus on than VR ranks xp.

NotSo

robertsspaceindustries.com/So the xp gain in vr zones feels a lot like an old mmo I used to play called Ragnarok Online. It's a grind fest game that takes so much time to level, then when you hit max level you rebirth and start at level 1 again. Anyways, I have been running a ragnarok bot nonstop for about 9 months and my first character has yet to reach max level for the 2nd time (you can see why I'm not playing it myself).

just been running in the background


Anyways, as crazy as the experience related issues can get, at the end of Cadwells Gold, you should be boosted to vr12 (simple hotfix) and at the end of Craglorn be boosted to vr14 or whatever.

I wish ZOS was more public about their goings on, just look at robertsspaceindustries.com/ and they're barely in the alpha stages.

Fingers crossed for tomorrows fix.

WraithAzraiel

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

If the point was to make earning Champion Points more uniform across play styles (grinding, dungeon running, PvP, questing. exploration), that is a great idea. You don't want one play style to be way, way ahead of others in number of Champion Points. Especially since it sounds like there will be (nearly) no limit on Champion Points.

But the Champion System is not out yet! You cannot put a leveling system in place for the Champion System before the Champion System is out!

If anything, you should be making it where it is easy for everyone to reach VR14 before the Champion System goes live, so we are all starting from a similar baseline.

Otherwise, all you have done is give the grinders an early lead that others can no longer catch.

It was one thing when VR14 was end of the line. If some got there fast and some got there slow, we would all be the same in the end.

But there is no end of the line for Champion Points. So the people who grinded 8 characters to VR14 in a couple weeks will have a permanent advantage over people who did not use that play style.

If you want to stop rewarding one play style over another, this was the wrong way to do it.

Agreed, this handicapping us down to the lowest common denominator idea (if that is their intention) is a HORRIBLE plan and they will suffer if it continues as such.

Just an observation and a bit of pattern recognition.

Blinks

As much as you've changed this XP whatever, I hate questing iv done it twice now and im bored of it. by all means lower the Xp for those who enjoy questing to go through the ranks a little easier but dont force me to quest for 20h. I'd prefer to grind Craglorn mobs again for 20k+ XP All i wanna do is PvP and that doesnt help you level very quickly either. bring back the Craglorn grind mobs and either lower there XP slightly to allow people like myself to grind our way up and those who like to quest.

G0ku

Opening a treasure chest gives 915 xp, a worldboss in a VR6 Area about 300 xp. Seriously?

I just recommend go to Craglorn Spellscar in duo and grind like hell. Most exp to get there, one mob group with atronarch gives 3000 xp. You can pull up to 5 groups of them simultaneously if you can pulsar and aoe ult. Took me about 8 hours to level Vr10 to Vr14.

WraithAzraiel

Did the maintenance come and go already? Has this SNAFU been undone or is things still broked?

Yankee

Gina,

Thanks for being brave enough to pass on this information.

Now please go back and tell whomever came up with this idea the players think they are crazy.

Is someone with influence in the company adverse to making money by retaining your remaining subscriptions?

Oh well, back to lurking around the forum.

and....../face palm

MissBizz

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

I think that people are forgetting one basic thing. In a few months, the Veteran ranks will be gone. All that you are earning right now is xp towards the champion system. When the VR are removed, everyone that has been a veteran will be level 50 no matter where they are now. The only difference will be that they have more champion passives.

I just have an honest question... when VR ranks are removed, will I be viable as a VR4 (or whatever) to head to Craglorn? How will I know what area's are for my "level" (which would be 50)? I honestly just don't understand. "This area is for people with 30 champion points" or what? Some of us want to level (and enjoy the ride) not to just get there, but to be able to do the content intended for the higher levels.

Lunerdog

I've stopped playing I had high hopes for this game and thought it was gonna hold me for a couple of years, with the various (numerous) "mishaps" with patches etc over the past few months Zos has been slowly killing any enthusiasm I had.

This XP carry on and the lies that have been told have tipped me over the edge, I'll let my sub run a bit longer to see if they change their minds but I doubt it will happen, they always seem to think that they know far better and that the players are just plebs.

skibicki

this should get intresting if they dont fix this this patch.

Cazic

I did a VR3 quest last night and got about 10,000XP. Then did a Pledge and got about 21,000XP. Anyone else seeing numbers like that?

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’d like to offer some clarifications about the recent conversion of experience gain to replace Veteran Points. We’ve read your concerns about whether or not it’s worthwhile to continue playing your Veteran characters. The short answer is yes. It is still worth it to continue playing your Veteran characters. You will have no significant experience loss due to the identified issues, and you won’t be wasting your time.

To put it simply, the way you gain experience at the Veteran Rank level is identical to the way you gain experience for levels 1 to 50. We’ve normalized experience contribution so it’s the same no matter what level you are. A completed quest, a monster kill, or even an opened chest contribute as much to your Veteran Rank levels as they do prior to level 50. The Veteran Points system and experience system are difficult to compare side-by-side as different events garner different amounts of each. For example, the VP gains for completing an objective were relatively high in the VP system, but are somewhat lower in the XP system. However, there are more ways to gain XP than VP.

Hey Gina, just wanted to let you know the translation of all the QQ above, basically, when you step out the cell in cold harbour you hit 1 mob and BAM you are lvl 2, this sets a horrible trend of expectation in which many inexperienced players latch on to.

After this first insanely easy level they then feel they are entitled to subsequent levels being handed to them. This expectation carries throughout the game causing hordes of people to level very easily and then expect all vet levels to also be handed to them threatening to quit if you do not hand over said levels.

It really is an impossible situation born out of Max's attempt to please both casual and hard core players and being left instead with a very few semi satisfied middle grounders such as myself.

I would suggest biting the bullet and slowing down all levelling from 1-64 to it's appropriate scale, biting the bullet now will most likely save you huge headaches in the long run, also I would take out all quest markers, heck I might even enjoy levelling my 7th and 8th toons if you did those things instead of zooming through unsatisfied and having nothing worthwhile to do at max level.

Hope this helps!

Enodoc

Even if levelling is 10 times slower at Veteran than during 1-50 (which is intended), it's still a bit off if it takes more than one zone to gain a Vet Rank, since the intended progression is supposed to be one rank per zone.