Clarification regarding experience gain within Veteran Ranks

Robocles

DigitalHype wrote: »

It's a decent explanation. Not want I'd hoped to hear. But, exactly what I expected. The rate of VR level progression has been throttled for a significant number of players who have been completing the quests in VR zones, in order to "level up". There is too much wordsmithing in this explanation.

VR level progression has intentionally been throttled, in an effort to promote balance between different play styles.

I don't do the "grind group" thing, and play through all of Cadwell's precious metals. Competing the quests, world bosses, dolmens, public dungeon, in each zone. This results in a "slower rate of level progression" for people completing the quests lines, as well as the grinders.

Meaning, the change is a throttle for all. Some more than others.

You don't know what the hell you are talking about.

You can't even get close to a level by doing EVERY quest EVERY boss EVERY dolmen EVERY delve in a zone.

But, thanks for your... erm.. wordsmithing.

Blud

I will think about re-subbing when this is corrected.

Mainly, I have alts I want to level and if it's going to take longer to get through all the stuff I've already played through on my main, then I'm not going to continue to pay and play.

It's too bad, because this was the best game on the market for me in spite of lots of serious bugs after every patch, etc. I'm happy that I've unsubbed while this gets sorted, but I'm not happy that I can't play ESO as it was advertised to be, with significantly faster VR leveling.

Robocles

Blud wrote: »

I will think about re-subbing when this is corrected.

Mainly, I have alts I want to level and if it's going to take longer to get through all the stuff I've already played through on my main, then I'm not going to continue to pay and play.

It's too bad, because this was the best game on the market for me in spite of lots of serious bugs after every patch, etc. I'm happy that I've unsubbed while this gets sorted, but I'm not happy that I can't play ESO as it was advertised to be, with significantly faster VR leveling.

What... you don't want to blindly pay them to underperform? Watch out for the fanbois.

DigitalHype

Robocles wrote: »

You don't know what the hell you are talking about.

You can't even get close to a level by doing EVERY quest EVERY boss EVERY dolmen EVERY delve in a zone.

But, thanks for your... erm.. wordsmithing.

Why are you so hostile? We are in agreement, as to the current state of the game. I no longer can get close to a VR level by doing those things. However, prior to update 5, I did get close to a VR level by doing those very things. I did it with two separate characters.

I'm not certain if we have a communication break down. Or if you are saying you know better how I played my characters, than I did myself. The former is understandable. Although your tone is reprehensible. If the later, then you are simply wrong.

Bouvin

In other words,

"We told you that gaining Vet Levels would go faster, but in fact they are now 3 times as slow. However, rather than admit our error, we'll just blame it on you and tell you to find a different leveling strategy".

WONDERFUL.

Sounds like a half baked plan to extend average sub length to me!

Meanwhile, no new solo content and an even worse Group Finder.

ZOS, you can expect subs to start purging in about 30 days...

Averya_Teira

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’d like to offer some clarifications about the recent conversion of experience gain to replace Veteran Points. We’ve read your concerns about whether or not it’s worthwhile to continue playing your Veteran characters. The short answer is yes. It is still worth it to continue playing your Veteran characters. You will have no significant experience loss due to the identified issues, and you won’t be wasting your time.

To put it simply, the way you gain experience at the Veteran Rank level is identical to the way you gain experience for levels 1 to 50. We’ve normalized experience contribution so it’s the same no matter what level you are. A completed quest, a monster kill, or even an opened chest contribute as much to your Veteran Rank levels as they do prior to level 50. The Veteran Points system and experience system are difficult to compare side-by-side as different events garner different amounts of each. For example, the VP gains for completing an objective were relatively high in the VP system, but are somewhat lower in the XP system. However, there are more ways to gain XP than VP.

When we introduced the changes to Veteran Ranks in Update 5, the goal we had in mind was that a typical player could gain a level after approximately 12-15 hours of play, whereas the Veteran Ranks earned by VP had a goal of about 20 hours. The problem with any kind of advancement system is that different play styles will offer different rate gains. Some players were able to advance very fast with VP, while the majority of players advanced more slowly.

Due to the elimination of Veteran Points, you may need to rethink your leveling strategy a little from what you previously used to doing to gain a Veteran Rank. For example, the XP-per-kill ratio of a boss monster is not as good as the VP-per-kill ratio was before Update 5, but the amount of XP rewarded for that boss has not changed. Among other things, this change was necessary to make leveling a more predictable experience in preparation for the Champion System, and to prevent a wide split among players. We want to keep all the ways you gain experience equivalent, and not let a certain method become more worthwhile than others.

As reported earlier this week, we have identified a couple issues surrounding experience gain:

• Monsters that are well below your level give slightly less experience than intended. This will be fixed in our next incremental patch.
• The experience that you receive at the conclusion of a particularly difficult quest can reach a limit, and thus gets capped off. While the cap is there intentionally, it was set to level 50 values rather than VR values. This is being adjusted.

Note that experience gain buffs such as the Rings of Mara and normal grouping continue to give a bonus to your experience gain, and thus a faster rise within Veteran Ranks.

We hope this explanation helps a bit, but please don't hesitate to let us know if you have any remaining questions.

Did you consult a politician to write this ? I see a lot of bull**** and not much actual answers and acknowledgement of the problem...

Ysne58

I am definitely leveling slower than I was prior to 1.5. I am a completionist.

Paske

Soooo....

Good bye Craglorn.

Hello Cadwell Gold ?

I think not. It sucked before, it sucks today.

Goodbye ZOS.

BergisMacBride

Wow, I'm really confused now.....

I would really like to know how they think the leveling rate in VP will be faster now after those changes described above, because it sure doesn't sound like it to me....sounds like all they wanted to do was to nerf boss grinding in Craglorn.

Guess we'll have to see after 1.53 gets released if it makes any difference.

Nebthet78

Great job shooting yourselves in the foot ZOS!!

You should be ashamed of the fact that this was an actual INTENDED change.

My sub runs out at the end of the month. I will not be renewing it! Won't even consider it for at least another six to 9 months to see how things progress and change. Five of my friends have unsubbed because of Gina's very statement.

When gaining experience becomes a chore, and the game is no longer fun because of it, and developers try to force people to play in ways they do not like, after advertising options, upon options for all play styles, it is time to go, as it just proves the company no longer has any integrity.

Bethesda is going to have one heck of job repairing the Elder Scrolls reputation ZOS has drowned and dragged through the mud.

xMovingTarget

pheww, god am i happy to have both chars i like to play vr14 since ages. Doing another char when i am pretty damn bored though. should reach vr soon. Maybe i consider leaving that one til champ sys is up.

Srugzal

Emeliana

This is nothing but a BS-explanation, twisting the words again, thinking all players are ***. Given the the fact they knew the numbers from PTS feedback already a month in advance and did nothing - because this was intended all the time. Any further 'explanation' is just another lie to cover up the previous.

"slightly less experience..." what crap. It's down to atleast 1/24th of prior to 1.5 and certain players don't even get that.

I gather that, at the famous Summit, the 1337-Guilds that rule this game ordered this and the scaling, to reduce the competition at high ranks...

Dekkameron

I am seriously confused by this response, from what i have seen the massive reduction in exp gain was due to a bug.
When i heard a response (finally) by ZOS i assume everything would be sorted in the next patch and i put on hold levelling my numerous VR characters.
http://i.imgur.com/92teNyV.jpg

Now it sounds like most of it is not a bug at all and it's purposely done to make erveryone grind about 70% more exp.

I have only been to Craglorn once by accident wondering what the NPC outside Elden root was about. So i haven't levelled anything there.

Are you telling me that if i only do Cadwell's silver/gold and complete EVERYTHING i'll only get to around VR7? When if this was using the VR system i would be VR14 easily

Srugzal

Valen_Byte

Ysne58 wrote: »

I am definitely leveling slower than I was prior to 1.5. I am a completionist.

This^^

They want us to go through all factions and zones, doing every quest. This is exactly what I want to do, I want all the chievs. Then they nerf the xp on the quests making it necessary to grind in order to progress.

They keep saying "in the next patch" but never say when the next patch is.

When is the next patch??

Nazon_Katts

And here I hoped to finally get the last 2 and a bit of VRs done via questing. Well, technically I can. If I can find a group in Craglorn. Again. And again. And again. Haven't found one yet. Dunno, but seems to me that's going to take forever and then might not even be enough.

Thanks for making feel stupid yet again for not grinding and actually wishing to play the content you provided. It's really not fathomable anymore why you continually deincentivize playing content. Low dungeon xp, low public dungeon xp, low PvP xp and now low boss and quest xp. To top it off, there's not even loot anymore. This is supposed to be a themepark, after all.

If you want me gone, just be upfront and tell me. It sure seems that way. And at this point I'd gladly accept a refund and never look back again. It's a shame, really.

Srugzal

AngryNord

divinitywithinnub18_ESO wrote: »

The experience that you receive at the conclusion of a particularly difficult quest can reach a limit, and thus gets capped off. While the cap is there intentionally, it was set to level 50 values rather than VR values. This is being adjusted.

When?

"soon"

Lunerdog

This whole issue stinks to the high heavens of incompetence, arrogance and a total lack of respect for paying customers.

I've done enough questing, thanks for all the fish.

Srugzal

Cazic

Srugzal wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

It's a decent explanation. Not want I'd hoped to hear. But, exactly what I expected. The rate of VR level progression has been throttled for a significant number of players who have been completing the quests in VR zones, in order to "level up". There is too much wordsmithing in this explanation.

VR level progression has intentionally been throttled, in an effort to promote balance between different play styles.

Meaning, the change is a throttle for all. Some more than others.

I think I understand it better now. Remember that the goal is to eliminate the veteran ranks altogether; once you hit 50, you will no longer progress through levels, Champion points will be awarded via the XP mechanism instead (along with regular attribute boosts).

We're in a transitional stage where they're normalizing all of the 50+ XP, and awarding, for the moment, a Veteran level for each 1.4M XP. Later, these levels will be converted to Champion points, which we'll then allocate to our characters using whatever scheme we like.

So this first step, normalizing (even linearizing) the XP, is going to be painful, because we've been used to "higher level, higher reward." The problem is they didn't quite get it right. It should still take about 20 hours of gameplay to gain a veteran level; at the moment, that doesn't quite happen. I think they didn't catch that on the PTS (in spite of ample warnings from conscientious testers that went unheeded) because, after all, who levels through the Veteran ranks on the PTS? Nobody has that kind of time.

So the throttling you're talking about is intended, yes, but a) it's not the final step in the journey and b) they need to fix their math a bit.

I'm not convinced that enough of them understand the big picture, certainly not well enough to communicate it to us clearly. It's a revamp of the progression system to lessen the widening gap between the elite players and the rest of us, and provide a framework for future expansion that will not necessarily have the play-gate of "the Craglorn Grind" (not to mention whatever comes next along that line) as a thorn in everyone's side, blocking progress. Let's get rid of the progression linearity and let everyone enjoy the 50+ material any way they like. Sounds familiar, huh...

We're going to lose players who hate questing. We've already lost a lot of players who hate grinding. Good luck, ZOS, this is one of those classic "between a rock and a hard place" situations.

This. We unfortunately have to endure an awkward transitional phase as we work toward the champion system. In the long run, it will make no difference how quickly we progress through veteran ranks because they will not exist.

However, zos has made some misleading statements and or calculations when it comes to how quickly we should progress through VRs when they do in fact still exist. These missteps combined with the growing pains of transitioning from one system to another is definitely not good.

Paske

15 hours per level ...

From V1-V14 thats 210 hours !

Lets say you have 5 hours a day to play the game, most have 1-3, but for discussion sake, thats 42 days of playing like a mad man.

42 days of gaming in order to get to the illusive end game ?
Thank you but no thank you.

For peasants like me that have 3 hours a day or less that's 70+ days of gaming.

If there was Champion system, fine. But there isnt. There is this huge XP gap between high and low levels.

Did you ever try to get a pledge group as V2 tank ?
It can be done, it has been done, but it takes ages and people look at you like you are special kind of low life that will die as soon as mob comes close to you. But its easier to rub V2 dungeon as V14, loot be damned.

Thavie

Paske wrote: »

15 hours per level ...
From V1-V14 thats 210 hours !

This is one problem. Another is the fact that there is not enough content in vet zones to rich at least 10 rank now. You MUST grind through levels hard - pledges, writs, mobs and other repeateble thing day after day. And this is BS!

mistermagic87b14_ESO

I reactivated for this patch - for faster levels. First I see it's not even remotely faster and notice it's going to take a patch to fix it.

Now it's not going to be faster AND I can no longer grind. Me and my friends will not be re-subbing if this doesn't get drastically re-worked.

Both playstyles should be viable - if we want to grind allow it. Otherwise good bye.

I don't want it handed to me however I will not keep playing the game if it takes 15-20 hours (210 in total) to hit max VR.

Cazic

mistermagic87b14_ESO wrote: »

I reactivated for this patch - for faster levels. First I see it's not even remotely faster and notice it's going to take a patch to fix it.

Now it's not going to be faster AND I can no longer grind. Me and my friends will not be re-subbing if this doesn't get drastically re-worked.

Both playstyles should be viable - if we want to grind allow it. Otherwise good bye.

I don't want it handed to me however I will not keep playing the game if it takes 15-20 hours (210 in total) to hit max VR.

Keep inimd that progressing through the VRs is not actually the long term goal.

At this rate, the champion system will be in full effect by the time a lot of us were to hit max VR anyway.

Alphashado

I'm afraid this isn't going to change anything for the better. In fact I fear this is going to cause another large chunk of your player base to leave.

Grinding bosses in Craglorn offered an alternative method to reach lvl cap as a solo player. Or if you were weary of the endless questing.

Now you will have no choice. You MUST complete most quests and you MUST find a group for dungeons and Craglorn quests.

Smart business in the MMO industry is to create options, not remove them.

WraithAzraiel

I think ZOS should just stop beating around the bush trying to use fancy words to deflect real issues and avoid answering questions adequately.

Just be plain, somewhere someone f&%*ed up the math and this is where we are. I hope you're trying to rectify the situation. As it stands, people will run out of content they're able complete before they get V14. This is by no way what was advertised in the pre Update 5 PTS patch notes.

Give it to us straight. Are you fixing it? When do you hope it'll be fixed by? And if you're not fixing it and this travesty was intentional what in the Nine Hells were you thinking?

I love this game, it's the only game I play. I do not want to see it die, and I refuse to let bad decisions kill it.

Please, please please get better at this whole risk vs reward thing. It is the carrot that keeps players subscribing, take that away and the subscribers will leave.

Ysne58

You did say that people would level faster in Vr after update 1.5. That is definitely not happening, although I seem to be getting more experience than some, probably because I'm struggling through at my level.

leeux

It /boggles/ the mind that someone at ZOS HQ thought that it would be OK to have players (customers, really) play through VR zones with under-leveled characters w.r.t the zone.