Clarification regarding experience gain within Veteran Ranks

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO

I think we should all expect/demand free sub days equal to the amount of time it takes to fix this starting from the day this 1.5 patch was introduced.

Adhal

So Gina, let me get this straight, your telling me that because I like to quest to level, I need to change how I play the game??? That since you can only get to about vr6 from the quest zone I need to learn to grind? But at the same time you nerfed grinding?

I bought this game because it wasn't a Korean grindfest mmo, but this patch has turned it into exactly that.

I had such high hopes for this game that I bought 2 copies for friends who were reluctant to play, now I'll be lucky if they finish the month with this BS so I just wasted my money trying to support a Dev team that just turned a round and slapped me in the face.

I have supported you guys from the beginning, but this is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard in my life. Trying to compete for the small Korean grindfest market? Here is a hint, you will fail and you will lose all your support in the process.

I sincerely hope you all put down the pipe you've been smoking at ZOS and come to your senses soon.

Faulgor

Adhal wrote: »

I bought this game because it wasn't a Korean grindfest mmo, but this patch has turned it into exactly that.

I wish, because I prefer grinding over questing for exp, but there is no reasonable way to grind anymore.

Rosveen

If your system requires me to be a mad completionist, I'm out. I like questing, but I've done all quests before and I am not going to repeat them every time. Can you at least give us a time frame for the Champion system so I know for how long I have to put my low VR characters on hold?

Oh, and btw...

Maverick827 wrote: »

Can you please unlock both veteran zones at the same time? Keep the second zone VR5 - VR10, just give us the option to go there if we want to and start the quests there.

This needs to happen.

Helluin

GinaBruno, thanks for the explanation.
The design of it is now a little clearer than before; I'll wait for the fix (mainly for quests), even if some adjustements would be better (especially to rank up and to skill up new skills), otherwise this changement has not the effect desidered.
I'll use that approach, even if already quite similar to my previous in TESO.
I edited one of my last post, it stands my feedback about PTS.

Nazon_Katts

Heck, I don't mind taking my time to level, nor levels taking theirs (tho I don't really feel like grinding clopses for 36h straight again for that one last level). But there's got to be means to do just that. Plural. And all of them need to feel rewarding. Considering from where we started, it's not only that rewards are lacking (they already were before), but with the increase in time needed, it feels downright punishing to most around here.

See, if your goal truly is to close the gap between the players, you just shouldn't stop those trying to catch up in the middle of their track. Chances are they'll just give up instead of trotting ever forward. If you want us closer together then

• up the xp gain till max VR
• cap xp at max VR and do not count beyond
• introduce CP per character and not per account

That way everyone at least has the chance for one competitive character at max when you make the transition and afterwards.

Even with diminishing returns the CS remains vertical progression. Combined with access to more powerful skills, more of them to choose from and better gear the gap's already noticeable and shows in gated content by player imposed requirements. CS won't change that.

Especially not when the bulk of the player base has to struggle to the top and may not reach it in sufficient numbers. With the added +/-5 level requirement you're dividing the player base even further instead of bringing us closer together.

Not to forget there's a place called Cyrodiil. A PvP centric game - well, it was advertised as such anyways - shouldn't make players jump through all kinds of hoops to finally get a competitive character. But looking at the state of this part of the game, I'm not entirely sure if I got a point here.

But even for a pure PvE game, risk vs reward vs time invested has to be balanced. Currently, we get even less for having to invest yet more. That's not going to work out, no matter how you spin it.

PS: Stop dropping these kinds of bombs on us on a Friday and then leave for the WE. It's getting near insulting already. Inform us on a Monday and then stay with us. Show a little respect.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

I think that people are forgetting one basic thing. In a few months, the Veteran ranks will be gone. All that you are earning right now is xp towards the champion system. When the VR are removed, everyone that has been a veteran will be level 50 no matter where they are now. The only difference will be that they have more champion passives.

Rosveen

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

I think that people are forgetting one basic thing. In a few months, the Veteran ranks will be gone. All that you are earning right now is xp towards the champion system. When the VR are removed, everyone that has been a veteran will be level 50 no matter where they are now. The only difference will be that they have more champion passives.

But what are we supposed to do in the meantime? We're paying for every minute, you know. What about people who can't get XP the way they like because ZOS decided to introduce +/- 5 lvl rules for veteran ranks (what exactly was the point of this, Gina, if you wanted to close the gap between players?)

I don't mind all that much, I'm in no hurry to get anywhere and I still have characters under 50 to play, but I understand everyone who is highly dissatisfied with this situation.

c0rp

This is total fail....who the hell decided to write "reducing time to gain levels in VR" in the patch notes? Were they supposed to write, "have increased the time to level VR by 8 times" but didnt have the guts to do it?

glak

divinitywithinnub18_ESO wrote: »

The experience that you receive at the conclusion of a particularly difficult quest can reach a limit, and thus gets capped off. While the cap is there intentionally, it was set to level 50 values rather than VR values. This is being adjusted.

When?

My post-50 leveling behavior followed after pre-Vet leveling behavior but that mix included quests.

Still parking my main except for farming until this is adjusted because

• most quests can only be done once
• questing is still a large portion of XP gain pre-Vet

Leveling in Cold Harbor was faster and maybe that is clouding my judgement?

phreatophile

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

PS: Stop dropping these kinds of bombs on us on a Friday and then leave for the WE. It's getting near insulting already. Inform us on a Monday and then stay with us. Show a little respect.

I didn't even think of that. It took awhile to craft a long, probably carefully vetted, and anything but clarifying post about this steaming pile of what you try not to step in. This went through revisions and approvals then they hit send on their way out the door for the weekend. I'd love/hate to see what this weekend's unsub numbers look like. Has anyone forwarded this to any game review sites? They deserve a top of the page, "ZOS nerfs Verteran leveling to the lower hells" headline for this.

Ohioastro

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

If I understand this correct, you have to level VR the same way you level pre-vet.

I actually wish this were the case. Grinding open-world mobs is extremely fast leveling pre-vet. It's really comical how much things slow down the minute you reach VR1.

I didn't do much of it pre-vet so I can't say one way or the other. But if that is the case, then you highlight another problem that will arise. At least the Craglorn grinding was out of the way....kind of like grinders island lol. Now the regular veteran zones will be filled with me and others looking for the fastest ways to level. Of course that will lead to a lot people being mad at us because we are grinding right in the middle of their quest chains. It will get ugly

It doesn't hurt other people at all; mob kills are shared.

Epsilon_Echo

This essential parks all my non-vr14 alts. I am an obsessive player and spend massive amounts of time playing this game and I just can't fathom spending this much time to level my Templar. Luckily I already have a VR14 to play on until the champ system comes out but I can't imagine having no option but to slog through. Never mind the fact that according the math presented here and in related threads that shows it's not even possible to reach cap at the new xp rate via quests.

I am a GM and if I lose guild mates over this then it's on you, not me.

The only way this could possibly make sense is if the champ system is coming in 4 weeks or less. But I am not holding my breath.

Faulgor

I love how "You're not wasting your time leveling your character now" translates to "Don't bother waiting for a fix, there isn't one coming".

tordr86b16_ESO

Seems like a deliberate roadblock to reduce the amount of champion points ppl will get after conversion.

Cazic

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Seems like a deliberate roadblock to reduce the amount of champion points ppl will get after conversion.

Yes, this is the point me and a few others have been trying to make.

The XP we're gaining right now is essentially going towards Champion Points. We don't yet know how much XP will be considered a lot or a little once the CS is fully rolled out.

That's the bigger picture anyway and apparently the reason for the overall change. I can't argue with the fact that they stated VR progression would be faster when it's obviously not, that is a bit unsettling.

Srugzal

Cazic

Srugzal wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

At this rate, the champion system will be in full effect by the time a lot of us were to hit max VR anyway.

Could this have been the intention? Hmmmm......

Not sure if that was directly intended, but that will be the case for many casual players.

I only have one toon at VR3 so far. Lately I was gaining a VR once every 2 weeks or so. Now, I don't know how long it'll take to get to VR 14 but it won't matter because Veteran Ranks are being removed.

If I was a more hardcore player and was really concerned about getting to the top, I'd definitely be a bit more upset about this change.

Srugzal

c0rp

The amount of XP needed get a VR level needs be reduced by about 50% while we wait for the champion system phases imo. I would at least play my VR toons if this was the case. Instead, Ill be logging on to check mail and logging right back off till that point.

Cazic

Srugzal wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

I think that people are forgetting one basic thing. In a few months, the Veteran ranks will be gone. All that you are earning right now is xp towards the champion system. When the VR are removed, everyone that has been a veteran will be level 50 no matter where they are now. The only difference will be that they have more champion passives.

Very true. However many if not most of us have failed to see the forest for the trees. In essence, ZOS is completely overhauling the game: the reward system, the 50+ advancement system, rebalancing and extending the combat and ability system, the infrastructure around crafting, abilities, guilds.... everything. I am positive that they haven't told us everything yet, because, frankly, the shock would be too severe. For instance, post Champion points, what will be the point of Cadwell's Journal? None.

In other words, they are building the game they would have built in the first place if they'd had the vision to do that. They've learned from their mistakes, and now they have an extremely difficult task ahead. It's somewhat like a cross between overhauling and replacing the engine while you continue to drive the car. At the very least, count on breakdowns.

At the other end, sure, it will be great. It will also be a different game. Oh, the superficials will look the same: the quests, the stories, the graphics, etc. But it won't be the same.

And the top level players are going to burn the place down when they realize fully what's being done to them.

It's worth resubbing just to watch it happen.

This all day long.

Ysne58

I think they should just change the max level of the game to 64, keep track of the exp that the 64 levels are attaining and let the rest catch up. Then they have no reason to keep Vr exp gain nerfed.

Cazic

c0rp wrote: »

The amount of XP needed get a VR level needs be reduced by about 50% while we wait for the champion system phases imo. I would at least play my VR toons if this was the case. Instead, Ill be logging on to check mail and logging right back off till that point.

Reducing the XP required for VRs would be a decent solution for now, but who's to say that would work in alignment with the long term goals of the conversion.

ZoS just needs to do a better job of explaining exactly what is happening and why, as well as not misleading people by stating things like leveling through VR will be faster when it isn't.

I think they do know full well where the game is going and how to get there, but they don't know exactly how these changes affect the current player base. It's understandable to a degree, because an overhaul such as this must be a complicated ordeal.

If they improve on communication so we're all more aware of the fine details, it'll help a lot to keep current players in the game.

OrangeTheCat

All I know is I am trying to get my vr2 nb up to vr14 so as to be competitive in pvp. I am doing Cadwell's and am now in a vr 3 area. I can only see the desparity between my character level and zone level increasing. Or else I have to go back and do all the side quests I skipped. NO THANKS ZOS. I dread the idea of 150 normal levels of quests to slog through.

tengri

Yes, I know that VR is to be phased out.
But I dont care that VR ranks will be gone in a few weeks months...
That might be then. This is now.

And now I have no reasonable way to get my alts to VR14 (or VR12 for that matter) to be able to wear all the nice gear and stuff I have sitting in the bank.
Pushing an only half finished system and screwing over the entire V1-v13 population is just... well... to be frank I can not write here what I really want to say about that **** move.

Ohioastro

As I understand it, all characters will have a common pool of champion points once the system goes live. This means that you don't need to accumulate them character by character: once a toon is level 50 they get the same pool that everyone else does.

Bottom line: there is no need to level alts through the VR system except to get skill points. So what I'd recommend, knowing that this system is in place, is either to level alts to 50 or to run your main (where they will be banking exp.)

Cazic

Ohioastro wrote: »

As I understand it, all characters will have a common pool of champion points once the system goes live. This means that you don't need to accumulate them character by character: once a toon is level 50 they get the same pool that everyone else does.

Bottom line: there is no need to level alts through the VR system except to get skill points. So what I'd recommend, knowing that this system is in place, is either to level alts to 50 or to run your main (where they will be banking exp.)

Right, that makes sense.

And given that, I suppose we're presented with an issue of imbalance between the lower VR players (1-9) and the higher VR players (10-14) until the conversion is done.

The lower VRs won't really be able to catch up very quickly.

WraithAzraiel

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

I think that people are forgetting one basic thing. In a few months, the Veteran ranks will be gone. All that you are earning right now is xp towards the champion system. When the VR are removed, everyone that has been a veteran will be level 50 no matter where they are now. The only difference will be that they have more champion passives.

That's all well and good, but I'm not gonna sit here on my hands while I wait for that to happen. What they did was kill replay value. I have absolutely no desire to play any of my low level alts because of this fiasco until it's fixed.

And if it doesn't get fixed I want a simple, good damn reason why. Equality and communism for the Champion System, is not a good reason.

There needs to be gaps between players based on effort and time spent. If Suzy gets the same amount of whatever as Timmy but Timmy put 4x the amount of effort and time in as Suzy, what reason does Timmy have to put forth further effort?

Putting a cap on the amount of XP that'll transfer into Champion Points? That's fine. Don't hinder my gameplay and progression just so I'm on par with every Tom Duck and Harry that plays the game.

If I put more in, I should get more back. Reward should equal time/effort/risk expended.

Cazic

You will get more back. The more time you put in, the more XP you gain which goes toward the Champion System.

They wanted to remove the current issue of a gap happening too easily between players in the VR system. They have probably done this, but they can't reverse the progress already made by people who are in the higher VRs. So we're left with the unfortunate side effect of that gap remaining and dealing with that imbalance until the CS is fully rolled out.

Those of us who haven't yet leveled to the higher VRs, simply will not be able to do so as quickly as those who already have. But, that gap will not grow any further (it will slowly close), and will be eliminated once the CS is rolled out.

The whole "VR progression being faster" statement was only partially true. The amount of XP required to level in the higher VRs (let's say 10-14) was likely reduced enough that those levels do indeed take less time. It's the lower VRs (1-9) that actually take longer than before.

Alphashado

The bigger picture here is what's disturbing to me. No matter how the tale is spun, the fact remains that bosses will still award much less XP then trash mobs. It is a pretty clear indication that ZOS want's to force people to play the game the way they envision it being played rather than cater to demand and taste.

The VR system was (is) a disaster. The implementation of the champion system just proves the undeniable fact that a large chunk of new players leave the game once it sinks in how much work is left to do between lvl 50 and the lvl cap.

Grinding Craglorn offered an alternative. Now that alternative is gone. Trying to force people into playing the game the way you envision it being played rather than trying to understand why people are seeking alternatives is a gigantic mistake.

If you put people into a situation where the only way they can advance to V14 is to complete all of the group quests in Craglorn or endlessly farm difficult scaled dungeons (more group content), then sit back and watch your subscriptions drop more and more.

I like group content. But forcing people to do it in order to gain lvls is a terrible terrible mistake. You cannot force people to enjoy something.

Craglorn is dead. Your vision isn't working and no amount of stubborn insistence will change that. There NEEDS to be a way to reach lvl cap without dungeons and group quests. Hopefully the champion system will change things. Time will tell I guess.