Skill Line XP Constantly being Deleted. Unacceptable/Pathetic ZoS.

Lunerdog

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

To reiterate, you are not actually losing your skill progress.

Im sorry Jessica but this is bull****

Many of us have seen our skill level roll back to exactly what it was before it was raised on a few occasions and have reported it many times.

Why are you/Zos still peddling this nonsense ?

Mitrenga

If we will see the points we lost on the skill progress after the patch, it's OK. However if we can not gain what we lost and the fix only affects the data after the patch date, we have a serious problem.

HeX7

Mitrenga wrote: »

If we will see the points we lost on the skill progress after the patch, it's OK. However if we can not gain what we lost and the fix only affects the data after the patch date, we have a serious problem.

Yes exactly. Only time will tell.

Razour

HeX7 wrote: »

Mitrenga wrote: »

If we will see the points we lost on the skill progress after the patch, it's OK. However if we can not gain what we lost and the fix only affects the data after the patch date, we have a serious problem.

Yes exactly. Only time will tell.

That is NOT going to happen - ZOS are still asserting that the issue is that the client is showing xp gaining too quickly and that what we, the dumb players think is a rollback because the client and server is out of sync, is actually just a correction with the inaccurate client value being replaced by the server value.

It's a complete joke, they're in denial with their heads in the sand. They're unable to open their eyes or their minds to the possibility that their explanation could be wrong even when there is so much evidence to the contrary. How on earth they think they're going to be able to fix and properly test this fix by Monday when they patently still don't want to understand the nature of the bug is beyond me.

My perspective on this right now is that I can actually live with the bug - it's intermittent and it's slowing progress on a couple of my skill lines but it's not a game breaker as such. What I'm struggling to live with though is the ZOS attitude to this - it's just one small example of the disregard that they show for players, their customers. I think most of us are mature enough to understand that games of this complexity have bugs but the flip side of that maturity is that we are also able to see through BS and have expectations about being treated like adults.

Bottom line, I'm getting fed up of being treated like a mushroom* by ZOS.


* kept in the dark and fed manure.

unlord116

I dont see how it is possible that this is client said showing wrong info.

my xp was at 20500, played for a day relogged and went back to same amount.
then i tested it more than 5 times gaining xp.
they all went back to the same number.

if it was just the client showing diff numbers, wouldnt it be different numbers everytime after relog.

I have experienced in early launch that the numbers change a tiny bit after i zone, like 10-20xp difference. What ZOS explained seemed to match this.

It doesnt match going back to the same number no matter how much i gain multiple times.

HeX7

Yes after asking them if the experience would return they replied "that is a good question and to be honest I'm not 100% sure how this fix is going to work. I'll let you know if I get any new information on this" I said back "It seems odd for you guys to say this is a visual error if you aren't 100% sure. If the experience gained during this time is not returned to the players, than that is tons of permanently lost experience, correct?" And I have received no answer in return. So yes, Razour is right in saying they are 100% wrong and they refuse to believe it. I don't even care about the experience loss at this point, I'm debating whether I should stick around or not after being lied to.

Asgari

I love how im not losing points yet this "visual bug" as they call it forces your to level up the skill line again to use points in the passives and skill you unlocked.

Emailing them and writing on here is useless as they dont know how to fix it or where to even remotely start. They will insist its on your end first and then blame it as a visual bug.


Shame one ZOS

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Folks, we aren't being dishonest with you. That's not how we do things here. We understand some of you are extremely frustrated, and rightfully so, but we would appreciate if everyone please make an effort to remain constructive and respectful. We'll try to explain a bit further about what the issue is.

When we started investigating this issue, we found two bugs that both boiled down to the server and client not agreeing. We're still investigating the first, which is an extremely rare case.

The second is the one most of you are seeing, and the one we're pushing a fix for next week. It involves particular weapon swaps where the experience bonuses don't always switch completely to the new weapon set together on the client and the server. This results in the client showing your current weapon set bar advancing, but behind the scenes you are actually still getting some of the experience bonuses on your previous weapon set.

Asgari

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Folks, we aren't being dishonest with you. That's not how we do things here. We understand some of you are extremely frustrated, and rightfully so, but we would appreciate if everyone please make an effort to remain constructive and respectful. We'll try to explain a bit further about what the issue is.

When we started investigating this issue, we found two bugs that both boiled down to the server and client not agreeing. We're still investigating the first, which is an extremely rare case.

The second is the one most of you are seeing, and the one we're pushing a fix for next week. It involves particular weapon swaps where the experience bonuses don't always switch completely to the new weapon set together on the client and the server. This results in the client showing your current weapon set bar advancing, but behind the scenes you are actually still getting some of the experience bonuses on your previous weapon set.

Just explain how i get to lvl 42 in a class use a skill point for the last passive and make it 1/2 and then port to another zone decide to unlock the skill at 42 that i got and my lvl is now 38 again in the skill tree.

The Skill has a lock on it but my passive has the skill point in it still. Then low and behold once im 42 again in the skill tree i can unlock the skill that unlocks at that level.

Thats an amazing visual bug that i was told i was having and not earning any point into at the same time. Your Customer server email logic is some of the worst ive ever had the pleasure of reading and responding too. Might be something to look into once the game is done being nerfed and broken every patch.


/rant.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Thank you, Jessica, for patiently trying to explain while being bombarded with various accusations and insults. If I understand this correctly, it means that in the case you are fixing soon, the progress is not lost, but ends up advancing the skills on the inactive bar? Not a big deal. However, the other, more rare case, possibly the cause of some of the stronger frustration in this thread, could possibly result in skill progress being permanently lost. Right? A bigger deal, for sure, but hopefully it's not affecting all that many players.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Thank you, Jessica, for patiently trying to explain while being bombarded with various accusations and insults. If I understand this correctly, it means that in the case you are fixing soon, the progress is not lost, but ends up advancing the skills on the inactive bar? Not a big deal.

You're welcome. This is frustrating for us, too. What you've said in the quote above is partially correct. The server is splitting experience gained between both ability bars in some cases, too.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

However, the other, more rare case, possibly the cause of some of the stronger frustration in this thread, could possibly result in skill progress being permanently lost. Right? A bigger deal, for sure, but hopefully it's not affecting all that many players.

This isn't happening, no. The client simply thinks it is further in the skill line than it really is, and more often it thinks it's behind where it really is.

HeX7

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Thank you, Jessica, for patiently trying to explain while being bombarded with various accusations and insults. If I understand this correctly, it means that in the case you are fixing soon, the progress is not lost, but ends up advancing the skills on the inactive bar? Not a big deal.

You're welcome. This is frustrating for us, too. What you've said in the quote above is partially correct. The server is splitting experience gained between both ability bars in some cases, too.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

However, the other, more rare case, possibly the cause of some of the stronger frustration in this thread, could possibly result in skill progress being permanently lost. Right? A bigger deal, for sure, but hopefully it's not affecting all that many players.

This isn't happening, no. The client simply thinks it is further in the skill line than it really is, and more often it thinks it's behind where it really is.

If this is all true than why wouldn't skill line experience jump dramatically in the effected trees when this is resolved? If someone plays for 24 hours of game time using a skill tree and at the end of the day that skill tree does not advance at all, that is lost experience.

Also bare in mind I have a character who HASN'T unlocked weapon swapping that this is happening to.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

HeX7 wrote: »

If this is all true than why wouldn't skill line experience jump dramatically in the effected trees when this is resolved? If someone plays for 24 hours of game time using a skill tree and at the end of the day that skill tree does not advance at all, that is lost experience.

If you're experiencing this issue, it's possible you could play for hours and have experience going to weapon skills on a bar you don't care about while the one you use 90% of the time got nothing. So, it isn't lost. It's just being allocated to the wrong place.

HeX7 wrote: »

Also bare in mind I have a character who HASN'T unlocked weapon swapping that this is happening to.

It's possible there are other scenarios we have not yet identified that are also triggering the bug we're fixing next week. Weapon swapping is simply the specific situation we've reproduced.

HeX7

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

HeX7 wrote: »

If this is all true than why wouldn't skill line experience jump dramatically in the effected trees when this is resolved? If someone plays for 24 hours of game time using a skill tree and at the end of the day that skill tree does not advance at all, that is lost experience.

If you're experiencing this issue, it's possible you could play for hours and have experience going to weapon skills on a bar you don't care about while the one you use 90% of the time got nothing. So, it isn't lost. It's just being allocated to the wrong place.

HeX7 wrote: »

Also bare in mind I have a character who HASN'T unlocked weapon swapping that this is happening to.

It's possible there are other scenarios we have not yet identified that are also triggering the bug we're fixing next week. Weapon swapping is simply the specific situation we've reproduced.

Thank you for your timely response. And thank you for letting all of us know it's being worked on. I do really appreciate the answers. But this is what I think is frustrating the majority of the players here. The experience being allocated to a useless area is the same as losing it altogether if it's not going to go back. If you're trying to level a specific skill and the hours you spent on it earn you nothing, than that is tons of lost time and experience. Especially if other skills are already capped, than there is nowhere else for the experience to be allocated. And I haven't seen any of my other skills mysteriously raising. If you have to gain all of the experience again in a skill line, that you should have just gained, THAT is lost experience. That is the only point the people here are making. There is indeed, experience being lost. If other skills are capped, there is nowhere for it to go. It disappears.

kewl

HeX7 wrote: »

Especially if other skills are already capped, than there is nowhere else for the experience to be allocated. And I haven't seen any of my other skills mysteriously raising. If you have to gain all of the experience again in a skill line, that you should have just gained, THAT is lost experience. That is the only point the people here are making. There is indeed, experience being lost. If other skills are capped, there is nowhere for it to go. It disappears.

Exactly. Lost xp, lost time, that will not magically reappear after next weeks fix.

Elsonso

h

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Folks, we aren't being dishonest with you. That's not how we do things here. We understand some of you are extremely frustrated, and rightfully so, but we would appreciate if everyone please make an effort to remain constructive and respectful. We'll try to explain a bit further about what the issue is.

When we started investigating this issue, we found two bugs that both boiled down to the server and client not agreeing. We're still investigating the first, which is an extremely rare case.

The second is the one most of you are seeing, and the one we're pushing a fix for next week. It involves particular weapon swaps where the experience bonuses don't always switch completely to the new weapon set together on the client and the server. This results in the client showing your current weapon set bar advancing, but behind the scenes you are actually still getting some of the experience bonuses on your previous weapon set.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom, Thanks for the more specific information.

For the record, I never once believed any deception was happening. My concern was that your team did what I am going to admit to. I was afraid that you had missed something.

Embarrassingly, I missed something. I realized from your last paragraph that my analysis had a blind spot in that I was specifically looking for rollbacks. I was not looking for unexpected advances. I quickly retooled my test and I just wanted to tell the other people in here that I do see unexpected advances in skill lines when the server and client synchronize.

While I see the expected rollback in Restoration Staff after the weapon swap, I was not seeing the advance in Destruction Staff that I was not watching for.

I am still seeing a rollback in Storm Calling, but countering that rollback I am seeing an advance in Light Armor. That is a very strange combination, to be sure.

So, my apologies for the missing half of the analysis.

Epona222

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

HeX7 wrote: »

If this is all true than why wouldn't skill line experience jump dramatically in the effected trees when this is resolved? If someone plays for 24 hours of game time using a skill tree and at the end of the day that skill tree does not advance at all, that is lost experience.

If you're experiencing this issue, it's possible you could play for hours and have experience going to weapon skills on a bar you don't care about while the one you use 90% of the time got nothing. So, it isn't lost. It's just being allocated to the wrong place.

HeX7 wrote: »

Also bare in mind I have a character who HASN'T unlocked weapon swapping that this is happening to.

It's possible there are other scenarios we have not yet identified that are also triggering the bug we're fixing next week. Weapon swapping is simply the specific situation we've reproduced.

I would be grateful if you could explain to me how I have managed to max every single active skill on the Earthen Heart line but do not have Earthen Heart at 50 - I didn't realise that was even possible. My xp for the skill line keeps reverting to 49. All my other class skills (which I maxed before this bug) reached 50 when I had something like 3 active skills maxed.

Will I ever be able to max Earthen Heart, or am I stuck at 49 for all time?

HeX7

The fact that the experience is going to other weapons can indeed be seen if you look. However, if the other weapon skill is maxed, I fail to see where it could go if it is disappearing from the weapon you are using. Yet it is still disappearing.

æxæ

Leeric wrote: »

æxæ wrote: »

Leeric wrote: »

Im collecting evidence as I go. IF ZOS wants to play this game, I will play it. Im sure game magazines would be interested in knowing that an MMO is so broken it doesn't even record XP correctly. The longer this goes on, the more proof I can gather, the more proof I can gather the bigger the back lash will be on ZOS.

So if that is how it has to be, then thats fine.

C'mon man. Let's stay with both feet on the ground here. It's one thing to get a little heated because of bugs and how they are not fixed in a timely manner but to threaten a company with this is a little off. I suggest you take a cold shower.

Thats how you proceed when a company ignores a faulty product, welcome to real life kids.

I might be a little late for my answer cuz moment has passed and such but...
are you really calling me a kid? Now if only I had one of these funny gifs
with a huge lol slapping over your head, maybe that would bring you to senses?
Overreacting is usually referred to kids, do you have any? Let that sink in.
Have fun in your adventurous journey.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We understand that this issue, on the surface, looks like you are losing skill line progression. After investigating this problem, we found that this is purely a visual bug—no one is actually losing skill line experience. This is related to the UI not reporting the correct value from the server.

To explain a little more in depth, both the client and the server independently go through the routine of updating your skill experience. In some fairly rare cases they can get slightly out of sync—sometimes you’re actually earning slightly more than it looks like, sometimes slightly less.

We hope this explanation helps. We are working on a fix for this UI issue, and thank you for reporting it to us.

is this the same with alliance points? its an addon i have but sometimes it will report minus thousands of ap? is this issue on the radar?

Mitrenga

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We understand that this issue, on the surface, looks like you are losing skill line progression. After investigating this problem, we found that this is purely a visual bug—no one is actually losing skill line experience. This is related to the UI not reporting the correct value from the server.

To explain a little more in depth, both the client and the server independently go through the routine of updating your skill experience. In some fairly rare cases they can get slightly out of sync—sometimes you’re actually earning slightly more than it looks like, sometimes slightly less.

We hope this explanation helps. We are working on a fix for this UI issue, and thank you for reporting it to us.

is this the same with alliance points? its an addon i have but sometimes it will report minus thousands of ap? is this issue on the radar?

that happens when you buy siege equipment and stuff and spend AP while buying them.

Razour

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom the clarification that the skill xp is actually being accumulated against the wrong skill line (on occasions) is very helpful; it's a level of detail that was missing from previous communication on this topic (both on the forum and in ticket correspondence) and it helps close the gap between the two different perspectives on whether or not xp is being lost.

(Of course, if the skill line that the xp is being wrongly diverted to is already maxed out then the net result in that case is that the xp is lost.)

That said, as I mentioned previously I can live with these kind of annoyance bugs if the communication is clear and I think that has now be achieved.
- Thanks for that, it's appreciated.

Zsymon

This is not just a visual bug between game play sessions or experience going to the wrong skill line.

I am clearly getting experience in the Two handed line, but I also lose it again minutes later. I'd have 12.000 exp, three minutes later I'll have 8.000 exp, then I'll gain 2.000, and lose 4.000 again, in the same play session I am slowly going backwards instead of forwards, in a weird yo-yo fashion.

I paid attention to this after being stuck on Two handed lvl28 for over three hours.

I've been yo-yo'ing back and forth like this for hours, without getting anywhere. All I can do now is just quit playing until it is fixed someday, since my character is actually getting weaker by being played, I am losing out on tons of experience.

Roselle

I would like to say that I've leveled up sword and board to 50 like 8 times now.

When will it let me stay 50?

Pls halp

Cuyler

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

we're pushing a fix for next week.

If people would just read /facepalm

Zsymon

Cuyler wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

we're pushing a fix for next week.

If people would just read /facepalm

They're only intending to fix the visual bug, I've had that bug too, but it didn't bother me, they're not intending to fix the actual bug that's causing our real experience to be lost. They are two different issues, one of which ZOS has not acknowledged. It is also not the bug that's causing you to gain experience in the wrong skill line, it is separate even from that.

People are gaining experience, and then in the same play session reverting back up to four to five hours, losing everything they worked for. People are stuck on the same skill level for a day, without ever gaining a new level. That is not the visual bug ZOS commented on, a visual bug would not cause you to be stuck on the same skill level all day.

We're also not able to learn any higher level skills or passives, so it's not like the gained exp is just invisible, it's just permanently lost. The game is completely unplayable if you have this bug.

I advise everyone to keep an eye on the skills they're leveling, you'll see for yourself.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Mitrenga wrote: »

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We understand that this issue, on the surface, looks like you are losing skill line progression. After investigating this problem, we found that this is purely a visual bug—no one is actually losing skill line experience. This is related to the UI not reporting the correct value from the server.

To explain a little more in depth, both the client and the server independently go through the routine of updating your skill experience. In some fairly rare cases they can get slightly out of sync—sometimes you’re actually earning slightly more than it looks like, sometimes slightly less.

We hope this explanation helps. We are working on a fix for this UI issue, and thank you for reporting it to us.

is this the same with alliance points? its an addon i have but sometimes it will report minus thousands of ap? is this issue on the radar?

that happens when you buy siege equipment and stuff and spend AP while buying them.

Interesting, it never happens when I'm by seige merchant, but every time I can think of I was by a keep, perhaps your right and it just takes a little bit to regester. I'll keep an eye for that.

rwelshmub17_ESO

I stayed off for a week hoping this would sort itself out. I'm trying to level DW on my lvl 43 NB. I cant seem to get it past 35. I just spent several hours playing using DW exclusively trying to level it. I finish the quest and I get the notification that DW is now 35. I log out and log back in and back to 34 on DW.

I'm sorry guys I've been playing since the beginning and a real casual player, my main is only 43, I haven't even hit the Veteran ranks yet. For the most part I've really enjoyed this game but because of RL I can only get 5-6 hours tops in a week sometimes, so my game time in limited. The fact that I cant seem to make progress in the limited time I have is a lost of XP and experience. This is really frustrating, I'm at a point where I'm not going to use any skill points I have until this is fixed.

Cheers

Razour

Yesterday, based on the recent clarifications that the skill xp was being allocated to the wrong skill lines (diff skill bar) I ran an experiment by ensuring that I had skills on both bars which hadn't yet been maxed.

With that setup I was able to confirm that when it appeared that all the xp from that session had disappeared from the skill line it should have been accumulated on it, it was then applied to the other skill line instead. In other words I didn't lose the xp - it was just allocated to another skill line instead. Previously because my other skill bar only had maxed skills on it this wasn't apparent and of course in that scenario I was losing skill xp (and getting increasingly wound-up).

All that said I think @ZOS_JessicaFolsom has also said that there is at least one other scenario that is still under investigation and that might be what others are experiencing. So, just as a few extra pertinent details helped with the one scenario I think it would be good if ZOS could share some extra details on what the other scenario is even if the exact nature of the issue isn't fully understood yet.

istateres

Razour wrote: »

Yesterday, based on the recent clarifications that the skill xp was being allocated to the wrong skill lines (diff skill bar) I ran an experiment by ensuring that I had skills on both bars which hadn't yet been maxed.

With that setup I was able to confirm that when it appeared that all the xp from that session had disappeared from the skill line it should have been accumulated on it, it was then applied to the other skill line instead. In other words I didn't lose the xp - it was just allocated to another skill line instead. Previously because my other skill bar only had maxed skills on it this wasn't apparent and of course in that scenario I was losing skill xp (and getting increasingly wound-up).

All that said I think @ZOS_JessicaFolsom has also said that there is at least one other scenario that is still under investigation and that might be what others are experiencing. So, just as a few extra pertinent details helped with the one scenario I think it would be good if ZOS could share some extra details on what the other scenario is even if the exact nature of the issue isn't fully understood yet.

Assuming this is true, and it fits with what @ZOS_JessicaFolsom has said, many users vents, and my personal experience with this problem; those trying to level a particular skill, but constantly having their experience"lost", might try leveling the skills on their OTHER skill bar. This might allow them to actually level the desired skills on the "off" bar. No promisses, but it couldn't hurt!

One final note, while I really DO appreciate @ZOS_JessicaFolsom communication with us (she was honest and human); the community, and myself, are irritated that we have been told for weeks this is "just a visual bug", which we quickly knew just wasn't the case. I would have greatly appreciated a statement like this from ZOS (or someone frome ZOS): "We were wrong, thanks to the communities continued feedback we have determined that the problem is more than a visual bug. We consider this important to fix and are activily working on a solution. Stay tuned for more details."