Upcoming Werewolf Changes

Sunrock

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our team has been paying attention to the feedback you’re sharing about the werewolf skill line, and we’re ready to tell you about some of the changes we’re considering to improve the gameplay experience for all you followers of Hircine out there. We’re interested in seeing what you think!

First off, we’re planning to reduce the cost of transforming into a werewolf. The current costs feel too high, and we want you to be able to transform more frequently. We’ve also fixed a bug that prevented you from using the CC Break ability in werewolf form.

We want to make a few changes to damage scaling and the Savage Strength passive that will give you a little more burst potential and allow your gear upgrades to affect damage output in a more meaningful way. Savage Strength will offer a flat increase to power instead of stacking multiple times. The bonus is a bit lower to balance the change out, but overall you’ll have more ability to deal burst damage. We want light and heavy attacks to additionally scale off of weapon power (instead of just maximum stamina), and for Pounce and its morphs to scale off of weapon power instead of spell power.

Finally, we’ll be adding some all-new werewolf abilities to give you more combat options. Here’s what we’ve come up with (we’ll have more about the morphs in the future and would love to know what you’d like to see):

• Hircine’s Bounty: This is a self-heal ability that gives you more survivability.
• Piercing Howl: An ability that damages and knocks an enemy down.
• Infectious Claws: A swipe attack that deals disease damage to multiple foes.

There you have it! Tell us what you think about the changes, which will be coming online in a future game update. Happy hunting!

First I have to say that I'm a bit disappointing that you did not run with my idea I wrote in one of the WW threads on the PTS forum. That you could in WW form take up a player or humanoid NPC and wield him as a weapon.

But seriously though. The new skills sounds good. The changes to passives looks good also on paper. Will be interesting to test this on PTS. Can't say more before that.

BalerionBlackDread

I haven't tried Werewolf or Vamp yet, but it seems to me that the transformation should not be something as limited as the Ultimate. I'm sure this has been brought up many times in the past (maybe in this thread, I didn't read the whole thing). It seems that the transformation should be an ability like any other on the 1-5 bar and they could make the ultimate something like a Spectral Wolf Pack that either swarms enemies in an area or chews through them in a frontal cone. I think the main reason I haven't considered werewolf is b/c it's an ultimate only (unless I'm wrong and have misunderstood the ability).

Rune_Relic

Thanks for the heads up. All update news is appreciated.

Zheg

While it's WONDERFUL to see developers actually begin to look at the glaring problems with werewolf (finally...), my biggest concern is that I already find the 2 lackluster WW skills to have very high stamina costs. While new skills are nice, will we even have enough stamina to use them? While fixing the CC bug is fantastic, will we have enough stamina to break CC and use any of our skills? If we have to use stamina to sprint to foes and/or use pounce as a gap closer, does that leave us enough left over to make use of the new skills?

My vampire has access to magicka and stamina pools. My werewolf has access to both pools while in human form. If you're going to add new skills (which was very much needed, so thank you), please make sure you give us the resource management to actually USE them - especially since we don't have range attacks and need to already consume stamina to pounce or sprint to our foes to even begin attacking.

Maverick827

Tyr wrote: »

The werewolf doesn't need humanoid passives. Humanoid werewolves are just plain humans with werewolf souls.

This shouldn't get in the way of game balance. Werewolf will never be as competitive as vampire if they don't give you passives in human form and/or let you use class spells/weapon skills while in werewolf form.

Thejollygreenone

Zheg wrote: »

While it's WONDERFUL to see developers actually begin to look at the glaring problems with werewolf (finally...), my biggest concern is that I already find the 2 lackluster WW skills to have very high stamina costs. While new skills are nice, will we even have enough stamina to use them? While fixing the CC bug is fantastic, will we have enough stamina to break CC and use any of our skills? If we have to use stamina to sprint to foes and/or use pounce as a gap closer, does that leave us enough left over to make use of the new skills?

My vampire has access to magicka and stamina pools. My werewolf has access to both pools while in human form. If you're going to add new skills (which was very much needed, so thank you), please make sure you give us the resource management to actually USE them - especially since we don't have range attacks and need to already consume stamina to pounce or sprint to our foes to even begin attacking.

I've got like 2900 stamina in werewolf form on my v12, which is monstrous. If you have decent stam regen anyway like I do, the costs are pretty manageable so far.

However, that's in the current system with only two active abilities and conservative use of them due extenuating circumstances arising from the nature of the abilities.

So you may have a point, when we have abilities to use consistently, regen may be a problem as the only compensation we get is max stamina pool increase. And even that is being partially removed in favor of flat damage, which I'm not necessarily complaining about.

Basically my position on this is I tentatively agree with you, regen in WW form could become a major issue in the new system of 5 WW active abilities, and that the compensation of max stamina pool doesn't offset it. That is, if all the other things wrong with it don't overshadow that problem.

stewie_801

My friends and I all like these changes to werewolves. We've been waiting awhile for something to come. The only thing we still want to see is passives that affect us in human form. Other than the ult gain faster why the ult is slotted, there really isn't anything for us. Would like to see stamina regen increases at least in human form.

Ser Lobo

Maverick827 wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

The werewolf doesn't need humanoid passives. Humanoid werewolves are just plain humans with werewolf souls.

This shouldn't get in the way of game balance. Werewolf will never be as competitive as vampire if they don't give you passives in human form and/or let you use class spells/weapon skills while in werewolf form.

The better option, in my mind, would be to remove all passive benefits and negatives while in human form. Essentially, unless you have transformed, you would be the same as any other non-vampire. This of course would further distinguish the two from one another.

timidobserver

Suggestion: Allow WW passives to work while in human form. Just make them something like 15-20% less effective while in human form.

Artis

So werewolves will have 5 skills and vamps will only have 2?

El_Barto_227

This isn't my idea, but Reddit came up with a possible solution:
The werewolf duration is too short. Maybe instead of 2-3 minutes, have the timer consume Ultimate. like how Overload consumes it per attack.

Orchish

I recently cured mine after 3 and half months of uselessness...

That said, it's great to finally get some info about upcoming changes. I would however like you to do something about the very short time we can be in WW form. I can already see it now where mid fight in PvP the WW transforms back to humanoid form and likely dies whilst doing so. Perhaps make it so that you cannot be transformed back to humanoid form whilst in combat?

Brandoid

All these things are good and all, but it seems like you don't truely understand how weak WW are. I hope that heal is as good as green dragons blood or honor the dead otherwise there is no point. The amount of damage players can do and the lack of defensive(and offensive) ability means if you go ww you will die before the pitifully short timer turns you back into human form. The shear cost of ww abilities is stupid high as well. Even with 3k stamina you wouldn't be able to use everything and cc break(the only ww defense that it cannot currently do) and blocking would just drain your stam. Sprinting also drains your stam too much.

WW should have ~200 stam and health recovery, a bit higher light attack damage, way more health, a flat damage reduction percentage, and and not be affected by cc, faster sprint speed and lower sprint cost, and the abilities shouldn't cost as much. Keep ult cost and the two abilities.

Voodoo

NEEED A TAUNT!!!!!! Please:) ...I feel the WW should make a decent tank! And it needs is a taunt.

timidobserver

Artemis wrote: »

So werewolves will have 5 skills and vamps will only have 2?

Vampires are 1000 times more powerful than werewolves, so yeh Werewolve's deserve to get something vamps don't have.

Note: I am a vamp.

Ser Lobo

Artemis wrote: »

So werewolves will have 5 skills and vamps will only have 2?

Vamps have always on benefits (as well as penalties), one of the most powerful AOE damage dealing and life steal ultimates in the game, and can use their regular weapons or abilities at the same time as their vampire abilities.

I really don't see having three more active abilities being a balance yet.

Iam_Epiphany

Looking great @ZOS_GinaBruno but there's a few changes I'd make myself.

1. Werewolf Form should be stronger, not cheaper...This will make the transformation FEEL a lot more powerful, which is what it should be about.
This will still make the form feel like it's worth it's high cost, because you get a lot of bang for your buck.

2. Replace Piercing Howl with a high cost-efficiency single target damage ability so that werewolves don't have to rely on autoattacks for damage, if all your DPS comes from autoattacks then Pack Leader becomes an almost dead morph unless it's ultimate generation by a lot.
Fear is already a great CC, a reliable damage ability would be more useful to the build.

3. Reduce the time taken to transform into and out of werewolf form, this is a big concern for the ultimate.

4. Make Pounce move faster or give it pathing so that you can hit a feared target more reliably, this will allow you to take advantage of the off balance and knock down combo.

5. Give werewolves the ability to taunt, this will make the ultimate more useful to team mates as your new found bulk will allow you to take heat off your team.

6. Any chance of giving werewolves outright CC immunity? Understand that this could be seen as too powerful, but it is an ultimate.

7. Allow for Devour during combat unless you get CC'd, spider style.

On the other side of things:

1. Adding a self-heal is -excellent- this is a big downside to werewolves right now.

2. Adding an AOE is a great idea too, that was a big loss for werewolf form up until this point.

3. Change to Savage Strength is good, especially in PVP where you probably won't be getting 5 kills in a short period.

timidobserver

My morph suggestion:

Hircine’s Bounty: This is a self-heal ability that gives you more survivability.
Morph 1: On top of the heal, gain X seconds of CC immunity for X seconds.
Morph 2: On top of the heal, Gain X damage reduction for X seconds.

Syrrisdevlin

every thing looks great but my one question is have you managed to fix the issue of cool down on devour? As I remember the cool down being added to combat the issue of people feeding off of the same corpse. Then I remember a patch note (v1.2.3)saying the cool down was removed and now you can only feed on one corpse. But that patch never actually removed the cool down as far as I know. Was this ever fix and devour now works correctly as intended??

---

PER PATCH NOTES v1.2.3
•Werewolf
•General: Fixed an issue so transforming out of werewolf form when you are crowd-controlled will no longer break your light and heavy attacks.
•Devour: We have removed the cooldown period for this ability. You can use Devour only once per corpse.

---

I know this issue may have seemed small at the time. As this was also the same patch that changed lighting, and caused a whole heap of lag/fps issues for a lot of people but I don't believe this was ever fixed or addressed. Any one from ZoS able to confirm or deny this. If this was in fact a false note in the patch then please address it and correct the patch notes for 1.2.3 post an updated comment in regards to this thank you.

c0rp

If you guys dont fix "how long you get to be in ww form" there are still gonna be tons of pissed off people no matter how much better it is.

Being a ww disables ALL your skills. Make the transformation a toggle, or increase the ww form timer in some way.

If you want to keep ww form limited under 1 minute that is fine...but if that is the case a ww needs to have like...+50% to run speed buff at least.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Nevril wrote: »

I'd like to see also a "Taunt" morph of one of the skills.

This right here. ^^^

Werewolves have that nice armor boost; it makes no sense that they can't be viable as a tank in WW form due to the lack of a taunt.

P.S.: Okay, maybe "not viable" is a bit of a stretch, but it'd be nice to be able to hold agro while you're going all ~HIRCINE~ on someone's @$$.

skavenapsb16_ESO

Thanks for looking into it.

As others said before me, i will prefer WW been a toggle so you can swap in and out of form at will, because when the ultimate is not up, you got nothing from WW. Vampire always give you something and you can still use your class skills. WW really need a boost.

Cously

Please, as a RPer, add this:

Toogle Ultimate, to be WW as long as the player wants.
Let emotes be accessed in WW form or have special ones created for it.

As a content player, add this:

Passives in human form, thanks.

Sharee

I am not sure this is enough.

Reasons: Both vampires and werevolves are facing a constant penalty for being what they are(fire/poison vulnerability, susceptible fighter's guild abilities).

But only the vampire compensates this by permanent advantages. The werewolf gets absolutely nothing out of it, unless he transforms, and then only for a short while.

But by transforming, he pays a huge opportunity cost: he loses the access to all his non-werewolf skills. This is an immense price to pay. No vanishing as a nightblade. No bolting as a sorcerer.

This is a bad deal unless the power you gain as a transformed werewolf compensates for both of the above paragraphs at once. The disadvantage however is so great that to fully compensate, the transformed WW would have to basically become a CC immune killing machine, and even then it would be close, considering the current metagame(he would be still useless to a pulsar-spamming AOE train)

I think the solution would be to at least eliminate the first point, by giving werevolves some incentive to be a werewolf even without being transformed. For example making their passives apply all the time, not only when transformed or when they have their ultimate slotted. Or giving them a permanent run speed boost, etc.

Kypho

WW form toggle, 100% immunity to cc in ww form, 50% dmg red in ww form, 33% in human form lower than 50% heath. passive detection of hidden enemies (wolfs can smell LOL) even better agaisnt vampires, some dmg increase agaisnt lolvamps. etc. Make it good as vamp or make vamp less huge advantage.

Docmandu

Kypho wrote: »

WW form toggle, 100% immunity to cc in ww form, 50% dmg red in ww form, 33% in human form lower than 50% heath. passive detection of hidden enemies (wolfs can smell LOL) even better agaisnt vampires, some dmg increase agaisnt lolvamps. etc. Make it good as vamp or make vamp less huge advantage.

Am I glad balancing isn't in the hands of the playerbase!

Anyway you forgot to ask for a 1500 radius 3k damage pounce!

Iduyenn

Sunrock wrote: »

First I have to say that I'm a bit disappointing that you did not run with my idea I wrote in one of the WW threads on the PTS forum. That you could in WW form take up a player or humanoid NPC and wield him as a weapon.

This plz

There are some amazing ideas here. Perhaps someone take the time to make a proper lists with arguments and ideas

Ohne thing: While in WW form we gain ultimate… perhaps it should be possible to keep ultimate points after changing back…

leandro.800ub17_ESO

I can see myself testing a WW after improvements

Srau

If the goal is to have a bonus, an edge over other regular humans then just tone down skills and put them on human form with a need to feed or else you turn into werewolve and can't chat to NPCs nor loot/open inventory.

If goal is the l33t ability to turn into a werewolf then turn the ultimate the other way around : build up the points total in human form then use them as a timer when form changed.

I prefer the second solution but it still has the disadventage of sucking up an ultimate slot that could be used for a super WW skill like batswarm.

GaldorP

That's great news The werewolf really needs a bit of a boost

- Ultimate cost: I like the idea of the lowered ultimate cost. Gathering 700+ ultimate takes very long both in PvE group content like veteran dungeons or trials and in PvP. I think the cost here should be in relation to how much stronger than the normal human shape the were form is. Then, at the same time, the cost shouldn't be too low or the transformation doesn't feel "special" anymore. If the ultimate cost will still be 400 points or more after the planned change, then the werewolf needs to be stronger than a non-transformed player! An alternative would be to make the ultimate a toggle ability like the Sorcerer's Overload.

- Weapon Power: That stamina-based skills use weapon power instead of spell power makes a lot of sense to me I'm still not sure what the difference between "Weapon Damage" and "Weapon Power"is though.

Here are my suggestions for the new skills and their morphs:

- Hircine's Bounty: A self-heal is a nice option to improve the survivability of the werewolf. A global reduction of incoming damage by 25% combined with a strong heal over time for 10 seconds would be great here, in my opinion. Why not make this skill magicka-based so the werewolf's magicka resource is not wasted? Morph 1: Increased damage mitigation up to 33%. Morph 2: Up to 5% of the incoming damage is gained as Stamina while the buff is active.

- Piercing Howl: Melee ability. Does damage, knocks an enemy down and snares them by 50% for 5 seconds. Morph 1: Additionally reduces the enemy's armor by up to 80% for 5 seconds (cannot by avoided by blocking or cc immunity). Morph 2: Adds a debuff that silences the enemy for up to 5 seconds (can be avoided like the knockdown if the enemy has cc immunity or is blocking).

- Infectious Claw: Deals disease damage to multiple enemies. 100% chance to apply the disease status effect (cutting healing done in half for a few seconds). Morph 1: Immobilizes enemies up to 4 seconds. Morph 2: Knocks enemies back and does extra disease damage over time.

To anyone who feels that my suggested changes would make werewolves too strong, please keep in mind that the werewolf loses the bonus of the weapon enchant, the weapon trait and all weapon passives (each weapon skill line has 5 passive skills). A werewolf also can't ride or use siege weapons. Instead of having access to 10 normal skills and 2 ultimates like a non tranformed player a werewolf only has access to 2 werewolf skills (hopefully 5 after this change) and no ultimate.