An Actual Poll About the Justice System

nerevarine1138

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Nestor wrote: »

So, basically PvP is being forced on PvE players.

Even if we are not involved because we did not steal, we still have to deal with it. As in NPCs being killed in front of us as we talk to them, bankers and merchants cutting out of the trade windows as they cower or react.

I will have to spend all my time looking for the empty towns to try and avoid this.

They've been very clear that certain NPCs will be marked as "essential," and I think it takes a very big mental leap to think that they are going to allow attacks on those NPCs to bounce you out of dialogue windows.

As for seeing NPCs getting killed in front of you, yes. Those are the horrors of living in a lawless society, which would have nothing to do with the system having PvP elements. Even if players weren't able to be guards, criminal players would still be killing NPCs.

Welka

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Nestor wrote: »

So, basically PvP is being forced on PvE players.

Even if we are not involved because we did not steal, we still have to deal with it. As in NPCs being killed in front of us as we talk to them, bankers and merchants cutting out of the trade windows as they cower or react.

I will have to spend all my time looking for the empty towns to try and avoid this.

Take the example of Skyrim. When a bunch of vampires and their thralls came to town to slaughter everyone and his dog, did you also take it as grief?

No, kill the vampires and go back to questing. Whiterun will just have to do without a blacksmith or a alchemist for a month. Big deal...

Here, the essential NPC will be immune and you will never be stopped in your progression if someone attacks them. So where's the issue?

Someone goes in a bank and attack the clerk? 20 players will be in a 5m radius bombing the aggressor's face with AoE attacks within seconds and all will go back to banking/trading. No issue there either. The PVE area is too quiet, too linear and predictable. We need some random event to which we can react, some player choices that have consequences on themselves and the world around them.

I have cursed on Bethesda so many times for creating such an awesome game as Skyrim and not being able to share it with friends or real life players.

ESO is an MMO, so let's bring the MMO features in

Halorin

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

All I know is.. When the justice system lands. This is going to be my character, hunting down all those law breakers that befoul our cities.

Face stern justice, law breakers.

Welka

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Halorin wrote: »

All I know is.. When the justice system lands. This is going to be my character, hunting down all those law breakers that befoul our cities.

Face stern justice, law breakers.

Exactly, some RP is what we need. I'm think of creating a NB, thief and assassin. I'll look forward to trying to escape your squad I won't make it easy on you lol

billp_ESO

Other (please explain).

I voted "other" because there are still too many questions remaining. It sounds good in principle, but what about:
1) I'm in a group, steal something, and get flagged. Is my group flagged?
2) can the other people in my group help me? heal me? give me pots?
3) say I'm not in PvP, and throw an AOE heal that includes either an NPC or PC that is flagged, does it affect them? What about a nuke? A sword swing?
4) will there be any way to play a thief/assassin without being forced into PvP?

The bottom line is that it has to be impossible to force a person into PvP without their consent.

Halorin

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Welka wrote: »

Halorin wrote: »

All I know is.. When the justice system lands. This is going to be my character, hunting down all those law breakers that befoul our cities.

Face stern justice, law breakers.

Exactly, some RP is what we need. I'm think of creating a NB, thief and assassin. I'll look forward to trying to escape your squad I won't make it easy on you lol

Catch you on the slopes, law breaker.

Welka

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

billp_ESO wrote: »

I voted "other" because there are still too many questions remaining. It sounds good in principle, but what about:
1) I'm in a group, steal something, and get flagged. Is my group flagged? i wouldn't have thought so, I would make sense but you're right, some details needs answers
2) can the other people in my group help me? heal me? give me pots? i would have thought so
3) say I'm not in PvP, and throw an AOE heal that includes either an NPC or PC that is flagged, does it affect them? What about a nuke? A sword swing? oh yes! Players will need to learn to sheath their weapons in town
4) will there be any way to play a thief/assassin without being forced into PvP? i wouldn't have thought so, defeats all the point in implementing consequences for mischief

The bottom line is that it has to be impossible to force a person into PvP without their consent.

nerevarine1138

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

billp_ESO wrote: »

I voted "other" because there are still too many questions remaining. It sounds good in principle, but what about:
1) I'm in a group, steal something, and get flagged. Is my group flagged?
2) can the other people in my group help me? heal me? give me pots?
3) say I'm not in PvP, and throw an AOE heal that includes either an NPC or PC that is flagged, does it affect them? What about a nuke? A sword swing?
4) will there be any way to play a thief/assassin without being forced into PvP?

The bottom line is that it has to be impossible to force a person into PvP without their consent.

They've actually shown us enough information to answer questions 3 and 4. 1 and 2 are a little uncertain.

The official word on this is that you cannot be "accidentally" flagged in the system. You need to actually commit a crime or flag yourself as a guard in order to even potentially be a target for the PvP portion of it. But there definitely aren't any mechanics that can "force" you to do either of those things.

As for the question of whether you'll be forced into PvP in order to play a thief or assassin: no. First of all, you can always pay the fine instead of risking a fight. More importantly, you can avoid both of these things by being a good thief or assassin and not getting caught.

Welka

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Halorin wrote: »

Welka wrote: »

Halorin wrote: »

All I know is.. When the justice system lands. This is going to be my character, hunting down all those law breakers that befoul our cities.

Face stern justice, law breakers.

Exactly, some RP is what we need. I'm think of creating a NB, thief and assassin. I'll look forward to trying to escape your squad I won't make it easy on you lol

Catch you on the slopes, law breaker.

Catch me if you can :P

Nestor

I don't like the justice system as described; I don't want players to be involved in enforcement.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

They've been very clear that certain NPCs will be marked as "essential," and I think it takes a very big mental leap to think that they are going to allow attacks on those NPCs to bounce you out of dialogue windows.

What I have read is that the NPCs will react to the PC actions breaking the dialog I am having with them.

nerevarine1138

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Nestor wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

They've been very clear that certain NPCs will be marked as "essential," and I think it takes a very big mental leap to think that they are going to allow attacks on those NPCs to bounce you out of dialogue windows.

What I have read is that the NPCs will react to the PC actions breaking the dialog I am having with them.

No, what you've read is that NPCs will react, meaning you will definitely be flagged for committing a crime if you try to kill the banker. People who are trying to spread rumors about how bad the system will be for everyone are trying to convince people that this will result in constant breaking of the dialogue box, but really think about it for a second. Do you honestly believe the developers would allow that to happen?

Nestor

I don't like the justice system as described; I don't want players to be involved in enforcement.

Welka wrote: »

Take the example of Skyrim. When a bunch of vampires and their thralls came to town to slaughter everyone and his dog, did you also take it as grief?

OK, lets take the example of Skyrim. I hated what Dawnguard did to the vanilla content. To the extent that I would either not load that DLC until I was ready to play it, and focus exclusively on the MQ for that DLC. Since that MQ never took me to a town, I could complete the content with little or no impact on the rest of the game. Or, I used a mod that stopped the in town attacks from ever happening.

Can't do either of these things to ESO.

MasterSpatula

Other (please explain).

What I want is the ability to kill players who harvest plants and leave the worms behind. That's justice to me.

Wait, did I say players? I meant characters. No, really, I swear.

Nazon_Katts

Other (please explain).

I still do not know enough about the system and how exactly it will be implemented. From what I've heard this could be the best or the worst feature of ESO, but that's all just speculation.

Since I absolutely loved bounty hunting in SW:G, I am looking forward to it, but also know about a plethora of pitfalls that need to be avoided. Especially since it (probably) will involve a whole lot more players, instead of just 1vs1, this can have unwanted effects on people that aren't all that fond of participating.

Nestor

I don't like the justice system as described; I don't want players to be involved in enforcement.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe the developers would allow that to happen?

It was a Developer Quote that I am basing this on. It was a week or two ago, so perhaps they gained some sanity. Perhaps the instance that we create when talking to the banker or merchant can mitigate this.

However, until this travesty of a "feature" is tested out on the PTS, we won't know exactly how it will play out. I just don't see the justice system where the players are the Judge Jury and Executioner as something that adds to the experience of the game.

I stay out of Cyrodill so I don't have to deal with the PvP business. Now, the PvP business is coming to me in a place where I was told before I bought the game that it would not happen. Heck, if I wanted full on battles in a town, then I would not clear them out when first entering an area. I clear them out and now it's peaceful. This may all go away.

Its great for the PvP players to get more to kill, but it will probably drive me from the game. Even if the Bankers and Merchants are immune. We will see I guess.

But, I don't like this and probably won't like the in game impact. I would like it better if the guards were Justice system.

Welka

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Nestor wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe the developers would allow that to happen?

It was a Developer Quote that I am basing this on. It was a week or two ago, so perhaps they gained some sanity. Perhaps the instance that we create when talking to the banker or merchant can mitigate this.

However, until this travesty of a "feature" is tested out on the PTS, we won't know exactly how it will play out. I just don't see the justice system where the players are the Judge Jury and Executioner as something that adds to the experience of the game.

I stay out of Cyrodill so I don't have to deal with the PvP business. Now, the PvP business is coming to me in a place where I was told before I bought the game that it would not happen. Heck, if I wanted full on battles in a town, then I would not clear them out when first entering an area. I clear them out and now it's peaceful. This may all go away.

Its great for the PvP players to get more to kill, but it will probably drive me from the game. Even if the Bankers and Merchants are immune. We will see I guess.

But, I don't like this and probably won't like the in game impact. I would like it better if the guards were Justice system.

I believe I know which comment you refer to. It simply said that the JS was being tested in PTS and the way essentials NPC were reacting to attacks and how it affected the other players was being tested in PTS. Even if it did kick you out of the bank screen, the attacker will never last 10s inside a bank after attacking the clerk. Some idiots might want to try grieving the first few days but they will soon realise that they just make everybody inside the bank happy for slaughtering his face

nerevarine1138

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Nestor wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe the developers would allow that to happen?

It was a Developer Quote that I am basing this on. It was a week or two ago, so perhaps they gained some sanity. Perhaps the instance that we create when talking to the banker or merchant can mitigate this.

However, until this travesty of a "feature" is tested out on the PTS, we won't know exactly how it will play out. I just don't see the justice system where the players are the Judge Jury and Executioner as something that adds to the experience of the game.

I stay out of Cyrodill so I don't have to deal with the PvP business. Now, the PvP business is coming to me in a place where I was told before I bought the game that it would not happen. Heck, if I wanted full on battles in a town, then I would not clear them out when first entering an area. I clear them out and now it's peaceful. This may all go away.

Its great for the PvP players to get more to kill, but it will probably drive me from the game. Even if the Bankers and Merchants are immune. We will see I guess.

But, I don't like this and probably won't like the in game impact. I would like it better if the guards were Justice system.

The official quote you're referring to did not state that an attacked essential NPC would break dialogue. At all. Never said that. Period.

And how would the NPC guards being the justice system change it for you? You'd still be seeing crime in the streets and guards chasing criminals. And since your main issue appears to be witnessing crime, I don't see how the system is any better or worse when it includes PvP elements.

Akula

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

babylon wrote: »

Halorin wrote: »

I'm really pleased with the result of this poll so far. Some of the folks who have been claiming to represent the entire PVE population have less of a leg to stand on than they already did.

Nah this poll was rigged, was filled with YES votes within two minutes of going up, OP got his guild to vote. This is why I'm going to let this thread sink.

Final words of someone losing his argument helplessly and trying to save some face. LOL.

Anastasia

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

For me it is simple wait and see once it is on the test server to see what exploits there will be that will allow griefers to flag players against their will. If it is a solid implementation that doesn't have these types of exploits then good on them

Welka wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe the developers would allow that to happen?

It was a Developer Quote that I am basing this on. It was a week or two ago, so perhaps they gained some sanity. Perhaps the instance that we create when talking to the banker or merchant can mitigate this.

However, until this travesty of a "feature" is tested out on the PTS, we won't know exactly how it will play out. I just don't see the justice system where the players are the Judge Jury and Executioner as something that adds to the experience of the game.

I stay out of Cyrodill so I don't have to deal with the PvP business. Now, the PvP business is coming to me in a place where I was told before I bought the game that it would not happen. Heck, if I wanted full on battles in a town, then I would not clear them out when first entering an area. I clear them out and now it's peaceful. This may all go away.

Its great for the PvP players to get more to kill, but it will probably drive me from the game. Even if the Bankers and Merchants are immune. We will see I guess.

But, I don't like this and probably won't like the in game impact. I would like it better if the guards were Justice system.

I believe I know which comment you refer to. It simply said that the JS was being tested in PTS and the way essentials NPC were reacting to attacks and how it affected the other players was being tested in PTS. Even if it did kick you out of the bank screen, the attacker will never last 10s inside a bank after attacking the clerk. Some idiots might want to try grieving the first few days but they will soon realise that they just make everybody inside the bank happy for slaughtering his face

---

Oh dear -- you apparently have missed the point. There are those who want PvE exclusive phasing for the Justice System. This is to allow them to participate and get rewards within the Justice System but to suffer zero consequences of such. They will be 'annoyed' if they are using a banker window for example and he is attacked and IF that closes his window with them, they will be inconvenienced for a certain period of time. They demand not to have ANY interruption of said bankers pc window. None.

eliisra

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Was a bit worried at first about getting unintentionally involved in guard/player fights. That wouldn't be to much fun if you're spec'ed for healing or tanking for example. Even worse when handing in quests with random skills slotted, for leveling purposes. Than you most definitely cant defend yourself properly.

But it seems they have that on sorted. You have to steal or kill to get flagged for PvP. Seems to be a distinct difference between looting and crouching + stealing. You actively have to be a guard type player, to catch or fight criminal scum. Anyway I like it. Will probably be some nice guard/thief PvP going on.

GnatB

Other (please explain).

Don't know enough about it.

Unclear how opt in/out it is, Unclear how much player characters are involved in enforcement. Unclear how many containers in the world will be lootable w/o stealing.

For example, currently the primary means of obtaining recipies (and motifs, for that matter) seems to be farming containers in the bank. (maybe it's just wierd luck, but I'd swear I get more recipies in a single sweep of the bank (on average) than checking every backback/furniture/etc. in a couple hours of adventuring.) Every time I log on characters, I do a sweep through the bank. I will probably be rather upset if post update, the primary means of getting motifs and recipies requires flagging for PvP.

That, or they need to add alternate methods of procuring said recipies (and motifs). Not surprisingly, there are far more "furniture" to loot in towns than there are in the middle of nowhere, but it shouldn't really require being a thief (or buying form one) to learn recipies. (I mean, realistically, you'd see a book or something and copy the recipie, leaving the original book where it was)

Welka

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Anastasia wrote: »

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

For me it is simple wait and see once it is on the test server to see what exploits there will be that will allow griefers to flag players against their will. If it is a solid implementation that doesn't have these types of exploits then good on them

Welka wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe the developers would allow that to happen?

It was a Developer Quote that I am basing this on. It was a week or two ago, so perhaps they gained some sanity. Perhaps the instance that we create when talking to the banker or merchant can mitigate this.

However, until this travesty of a "feature" is tested out on the PTS, we won't know exactly how it will play out. I just don't see the justice system where the players are the Judge Jury and Executioner as something that adds to the experience of the game.

I stay out of Cyrodill so I don't have to deal with the PvP business. Now, the PvP business is coming to me in a place where I was told before I bought the game that it would not happen. Heck, if I wanted full on battles in a town, then I would not clear them out when first entering an area. I clear them out and now it's peaceful. This may all go away.

Its great for the PvP players to get more to kill, but it will probably drive me from the game. Even if the Bankers and Merchants are immune. We will see I guess.

But, I don't like this and probably won't like the in game impact. I would like it better if the guards were Justice system.

I believe I know which comment you refer to. It simply said that the JS was being tested in PTS and the way essentials NPC were reacting to attacks and how it affected the other players was being tested in PTS. Even if it did kick you out of the bank screen, the attacker will never last 10s inside a bank after attacking the clerk. Some idiots might want to try grieving the first few days but they will soon realise that they just make everybody inside the bank happy for slaughtering his face

---

Oh dear -- you apparently have missed the point. There are those who want PvE exclusive phasing for the Justice System. This is to allow them to participate and get rewards within the Justice System but to suffer zero consequences of such. They will be 'annoyed' if they are using a banker window for example and he is attacked and IF that closes his window with them, they will be inconvenienced for a certain period of time. They demand not to have ANY interruption of said bankers pc window. None.

And you miss a point too. Why should be rewarded from the JS if you don't want to be flagged for PVP when caught? Exploit, exploit, exploit...

Opt out and all you get from looting in town should be stale radish

I will get annoyed getting kicked out from the bank screen too often. People will try at first because the system just came out but the benefit of grieving vs the consequences of doing in a middle of a town will drive grievers tired of doing so

Skafsgaard

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

I like it the proposed system! I hope that in some way they will in a future release incorporate also the 'supernaturals' (werewolves/vampires) into the system. Then we would have a Thieves/Guards thing going on while also having a Werewolf/Vampire thing thrown in the mix for further confusion, eg FUN

How exactly I don't know but I see potential for more world PvP!

DenverRalphy

Other (please explain).

The description has not been 100% articulate, as clarification was provided that it's a work in progress. I don't think it's not yet prudent to rely on current leaks and speculation.

I'll reserve judgement until it releases. Though I will state that I am, overall, in favor of a justice system.

Fleymark

Other (please explain).

Voted other.

I care not a wit about the justice system and have no idea why implementing it has taken priority over balancing the game.

And I really don't know why people are frothing at the mouth over it the way they are. It strikes me as something that will be novel and fun the first day or two....After that will be a monumental PITA.

But I will reserve actual judgement for when we have it.

Welka

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Skafsgaard wrote: »

I like it the proposed system! I hope that in some way they will in a future release incorporate also the 'supernaturals' (werewolves/vampires) into the system. Then we would have a Thieves/Guards thing going on while also having a Werewolf/Vampire thing thrown in the mix for further confusion, eg FUN

How exactly I don't know but I see potential for more world PvP!

I like your idea, a lot. WW raid against vampire lair... Bring it on!

But I prefer the idea of thieves raids. Take this example; a NPC approaches a member of the TG and task him (along with other guild member) to recover an artefact from a target house in wayrest. Accept/decline.
In the meantime, players flagged as guards get another NPC approaching them giving them a "tip" about a heist being planned in the respective zone.

Guards players team up to stop the heist and thieves will team up to steal the item and bring it back to safety without being caught.

Possibilities are endless

Skafsgaard

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Welka wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

I like it the proposed system! I hope that in some way they will in a future release incorporate also the 'supernaturals' (werewolves/vampires) into the system. Then we would have a Thieves/Guards thing going on while also having a Werewolf/Vampire thing thrown in the mix for further confusion, eg FUN

How exactly I don't know but I see potential for more world PvP!

I like your idea, a lot. WW raid against vampire lair... Bring it on!

But I prefer the idea of thieves raids. Take this example; a NPC approaches a member of the TG and task him (along with other guild member) to recover an artefact from a target house in wayrest. Accept/decline.
In the meantime, players flagged as guards get another NPC approaching them giving them a "tip" about a heist being planned in the respective zone.

Guards players team up to stop the heist and thieves will team up to steal the item and bring it back to safety without being caught.

Possibilities are endless

Yes! Of course! That really is a huge potential. The guild could even have opportunity for upgrading the lairs or barracks (HQs of each guild). To upgrade would cost a lot and you had to try to organize your own guild: like thieves has to earn points by doing missions for the guild, and could use the points for personal benefit (maybe for like potions special to thieves or other point dumps like gear) OR could chose to help the guild by investing in better traps (thieves) or walls (guards). But yes, possibilities are endless and I hope the Devs get creative!

Logan9a

I don't like the justice system as described; I don't want players to be involved in enforcement.

Another option that should have been on the poll: "I don't feel I have all of the facts and am interested to see how the new justice system actually works before I begin to complain. Loudly."

Welka

I like the justice system as currently described by the developers.

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Welka wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

I like it the proposed system! I hope that in some way they will in a future release incorporate also the 'supernaturals' (werewolves/vampires) into the system. Then we would have a Thieves/Guards thing going on while also having a Werewolf/Vampire thing thrown in the mix for further confusion, eg FUN

How exactly I don't know but I see potential for more world PvP!

I like your idea, a lot. WW raid against vampire lair... Bring it on!

But I prefer the idea of thieves raids. Take this example; a NPC approaches a member of the TG and task him (along with other guild member) to recover an artefact from a target house in wayrest. Accept/decline.
In the meantime, players flagged as guards get another NPC approaching them giving them a "tip" about a heist being planned in the respective zone.

Guards players team up to stop the heist and thieves will team up to steal the item and bring it back to safety without being caught.

Possibilities are endless

Yes! Of course! That really is a huge potential. The guild could even have opportunity for upgrading the lairs or barracks (HQs of each guild). To upgrade would cost a lot and you had to try to organize your own guild: like thieves has to earn points by doing missions for the guild, and could use the points for personal benefit (maybe for like potions special to thieves or other point dumps like gear) OR could chose to help the guild by investing in better traps (thieves) or walls (guards). But yes, possibilities are endless and I hope the Devs get creative!

I really can't see this happening lol but if some good RP guilds would get creative, it could simply start off with a zone chat /yell; "to all guards, our assassin guild have targeted a citizen in your area. Execution will happen at 8pm tonight. Try and catch us sissy boys!"

Lol

DenverRalphy

Other (please explain).

Logan9a wrote: »

Another option that should have been on the poll: "I don't feel I have all of the facts and am interested to see how the new justice system actually works before I begin to complain. Loudly."

That would be well covered with the Other (please explain) option in the poll, which some of us did choose to utilize.