Provisioning Revamp

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

If you want to keep these things valuable they must remain rare.

The more common the better, cheaper is better.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

When you cut the number of required ingredients for Provisioning in half, the rest of the changes don't matter. Why? Because the current number of ingredients combined with the somewhat limited space is the only barrier to entry for the profession. When that barrier is essentially removed, with Provisioning being the fastest profession to level up, everybody will level their own Provisioner in a couple of hours to supply their own food. This is yet another move toward singleplayer-friendly, self-sufficient gameplay.

Congratulations on making level 50 Provisioner...good luck finding somebody to sell to.

Good, barriers to entry need to go .. "singleplayer-friendly, self-sufficent gameplay" FTW!

I couldn't give a toss about "finding somebody to sell to", I don't play MMOs to pretend to be a shopkeeper, nor as some seem to do, to feel good about myself because I'm able to screw-over other people since I can play 24/7 and they have jobs.

Bleakraven

I like this, I just wish I could do more than just follow a pre-set recipe. I like alchemy because the outcome is custom to what I do and I love finding more potent combinations of ingredients. If we could add some customization to recipes, say, let's add some spices of type A to this food to make it last a bit longer, or have 1% extra regen of stamina. I think that would make provisioning more interactive and interesting.

Jinazai

Please. When removing old recipies, convert them into new ones.
Dont completely screw over players that collected them.

eventide03b14a_ESO

chiocco5000_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

chiocco5000_ESO wrote: »

You should add the ability to make a cooking fire anywhere in the wild. As well as making a ability to make scrolls of recipes already known so they can be sold to other cooks.

Not sure about the recipe part. It would sort of make the blue and purple recipes common. Also why stop there? Why not do it for motifs too? If you want to keep these things valuable they must remain rare.

I agree with keeping the recipes alittle rare, but most people who would sell the recipes most likely will charge alot keeping people who will just loot them, or maybe make it like the vamp/ww bite where you can only make so many within a week

That's a fair comparison, but those bites started out at 15k+ they are now 2k if people even bother to charge anymore. It's fairly easy to get a free one now. That's basically how any player crafted recipe would work too making those recipes common.

My opinion is that crafting in MMO's should be a career for your character in that they can actually make some money on the side. Provisioning as it stands is not a viable career path. It's even less valuable than alchemy.

DirtyPipe

I am stoked about the change but I would like to use up the stuff I have. People need time to muck around and craft the stuff they have before the items become "Stale" as they say rofl!
I have material for tons of purple food but no recipe and 0 gold to buy the imperial material to complete it even. And I can make tons of Blue by the stacks if I had gold as i have looked for recipes for a very long time. I was punished by not grinding recipes early as it seems nearly impossible to get now.
This will take time and people need to know to tie up loose ends or there will be many lost subs I believe. Many casual players do not keep up on patches so they need to be informed in big yellow letters all the time before their groceries become "Stale" ROFL!
That's like coming home for the weekend and your fridge was left open! Or even more so being robbed almost completely of a resource you once had in the game without reasonable warning. That can really ruin ones fun.

I love the idea Developers do this now and fast and start telling people in a MAIL to tie up loose ends now. No reason to wait.

Islyn

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I'd be interested in seeing fishing incorporated, like others. It would be quite appropriate for the rare ingredient to be available from hirelings, fishing and once in a while from containers.

Some of us DO NOT WANT to PRETEND stand around and FISH.

Please get over it.

So don't do it? Some people would like to.

Please get over it.

Oh hunny; I am over it. Rest assured of that fact ;-)

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Yes please, nothing more annoying when say i only want 3 types of things for one buff end up collecting more junk and bags full even with 110 slots

tbmorrisonb14_ESO

I rely on food provisioning (health + magic) to extend my DPS surge. The ability to stack food + drink is a very nice addition and reasonable addition. I was ignoring drinks, and the proposed changes should allow me to improve sustainability. It's likely any trial leader boards will be affected by this change.

Although not a collect-oholic, I am warehousing crafting items for my Xbox One guild, so the possibility of loosing ingredients to 'spoilage' is of slight concern, but not a big deal. My alt holding all my provisioning ingredients will be happy to have more storage space

Overall, nice proposed change!

john82009_ESO

I like this. I am not much in to provisioning but with these changes I will give it a try.

hanilvor

With the new justice system, I hope that the availability of ingredients is looked at. The majority of my provisioning materials come from containers which it would be a punishable offense to take from...

CirithValaria

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey folks, just wanted to clarify a few things based on questions or comments that have been raised so far in this thread:

• When we say "Combination recipes will be rarer, require more ingredients, and give multiple benefits as expected", this means that they are rarer than non-combination recipes, not rarer than they are now.
• The insane rarity of high level purple recipes is absolutely a bug with a fix coming, and is already in the pipeline. For example, it is not our intention that rare recipes are sourced exclusively through Trials.
• We're going to try to update the existing recipes that you already know to equivalent recipes in the new system. There may be some exceptions and some trade-offs, but our goal is to have you not lose the effort you spent collecting the recipes in the first place.
• The ingredients themselves will not be tiered, but the recipes themselves and the food made from them, will be. The plan is to make each recipe be a specific unique combination of ingredients that is not duplicated in any other recipe. This means that putting venison and cheese together may result in a level 5 recipe, but putting venison and flour together may result in a level 50 recipe, even though all the base materials are available immediately.
• We do intend to have a rare component for purple recipes akin to Oats, though we may add additional ways to obtain it.
• Level 50 and Veteran Rank 5 drinks providing the same bonus is definitely a bug which we'll look into.
• As part of the condensing of materials and making things more clear, we are likely going to remove the notion that certain recipes only drop in certain alliance zones.
• This revamp will absolutely NOT affect the rank in provisioning that you have achieved.
  
• Once the Justice System is released, we will make sure that Provisioning is adjusted to ensure you don't need to be thieves in order to participate meaningfully in the tradeskill.

Here is the answer:)

Humanistic

Soliss wrote: »

This sounds like a lot of work and text for virtually no little discernable change at all.

The only thing that sticks out is being able to use food + drink at the same time.

If you want to revamp provisioning, put in more endgame recipes that have more effects than just health, stamina, magicka.

"Never mistake activity for achievement"

110% Agree

Please do not implement this yet, it needs to be prototyped more.

It sounds like it works good - but the first thing that should be addressed, is what is going to happen to my guild bank full of provisioning materials? That's literally thousands of gold completely lost. I didn't stack those up for no good reason.

When you completely replace a system that is already in place, it's like giving someone absolute freedom, then taking it away.

This needs to be thought out WAY MORE - and it needs to be approached with the Elder Scrolls atmosphere in mind.

spoqster

I like the idea of the clear meanings (although I have to admit I enjoyed figuring the tier system out - but I don't think many others did).
Stacking food and drink is fantastic and so is the simplified harvesting. That is really a pain currently.
Please don't make the purple recipes any more rare than they are already.

Tricks51074

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ingredients

• Cooking: What You See Is What You Get
  • You see grapes, you get grapes. You see cheese, you get cheese. No more clicking on a sack of green beans and getting aged meat.
• Brewing: Based on container type (barrels, sacks, and crates)
  • Brewing ingredients will be broken up by closed container type to keep them useful and to avoid overlap with cooking.

Functionality

• The regeneration benefit of drinking will now stack with food benefits (some balancing changes may occur)

By having ingredients sourced in clear ways and using combinations of food items instead of tiers of ingredients, we will be able to cut the number of ingredients in half while still providing just as many recipes as we have now (if not more). This will require most, if not all, of the existing recipes to be changed to accommodate this new paradigm.

Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value.

Well here's my two copper ...

What you see is what you get.... thank Akatosh this is finally going to be true. I feel like Sheogorath walks around with my constantly when I am gathering mats. Question : Is there going to be another way to get crafting mats besides "stealing" them once the justice system comes out? I am a provisioner who spends at least one day a week gathering mats for foods and drinks for guild mates. Am I going to have to bring a couple of people with me to protect my backside while I gather mats to feel their belly?

Ability to eat a loaf of bread or a piece of honey steak and wash it down with some good mead.... BRILLIANT!!!

Cut the number of over all materials.... my bank and bag space thank you. I will have to find something to do with one of the mule characters though. I had to have two to hold all of the provisioning different materials. YAY!!! I'll get to make my second Night blade now woo hoo!

Oh wait... they said changing the recipes for the new paradigm (Hates the word paradigm) . I'm ok with this as long as I do not lose the ability to craft equal food and drink to what I can currently do.

Replacing with "stale" versions = bad juju. Talk about a pissed off community? When the dude that has stock piles of a material that becomes that could be the last straw for several of the constant whiners who keep threatening to leave the game but seem to hang around to torment the rest of us. (Sounds like a good thing to get rid of them but it is also a huge loss of revenue.) Back to the subject at hand, this can easily be taken care of by placing an exchange merchant in Stonefalls, Glenumbra, and Auridon. You have 1 stale salt rice you get 1 whatever. It can't be that hard to program in. I've seen it in several lesser quality MMOs in the last couple of years.

I do not like that the recipe drops would become more rare than they currently are. I have played 3 toons to veteran levels so far and have only gotten 2 purple drink recipes. And the first toon opened everything in the world that he could. He couldn't walk from the bank to the front of Stonefalls without going "Ooo shiny" then he was off to open trunks, drawers, etc.

Question: Will there be VR10 - 12 foods and drinks released with this update? Currently the top out is VR5, as far as I know.

I like that there is a real movement behind making provisioning a better system. Hopefully you change it so that it is better for all and not just those lucky enough to have found the purple.

Nightreaver

Not sure about the recipe part. It would sort of make the blue and purple recipes common. Also why stop there? Why not do it for motifs too? If you want to keep these things valuable they must remain rare.

Blue recipes are already common, I get at least 2 a day. Motifs? Once you reach VR levels even the rare ones are fairly common, I get a few a week, have even found a couple of the gold Imperial motifs. But purple recipes? Purple recipes are more rare than the Gold motifs and FAR more rare than any Purple Motif or gold mats for any other profession. And does it really make sense that people from trials that may not have ever learned a single recipe are now the ones that are finding them? Whereas people that have been dedicated to the profession have not a single purple recipe to show for their dedication?

That's a fair comparison, but those bites started out at 15k+ they are now 2k if people even bother to charge anymore. It's fairly easy to get a free one now. That's basically how any player crafted recipe would work too making those recipes common.

I personally would much rather see 100 people getting 2k than one person getting 15k. Especially when the one person that is making all the money from recipes hasn't done anything more in his Craft than any other Provisioner.

Please do not implement this yet, it needs to be prototyped more.
...............
This needs to be thought out WAY MORE - and it needs to be approached with the Elder Scrolls atmosphere in mind.

Well the good news (as I see it) is that I'm sure there is zero chance of it going directly to Live without going to PTS first. In fact the best part (again, for me) of this announcement is the announcement itself in sharing this information to gather input even before it hits PTS.

HOPEFULLY, ESO will post the changes to Provisioning (along with what mats will remain useful) to avoid level 50 Provisioners on PTS from keeping that information to themselves and giving them a huge advantage when the changes go live.

nvsg

Tricks51074 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ingredients

• Cooking: What You See Is What You Get
  • You see grapes, you get grapes. You see cheese, you get cheese. No more clicking on a sack of green beans and getting aged meat.
• Brewing: Based on container type (barrels, sacks, and crates)
  • Brewing ingredients will be broken up by closed container type to keep them useful and to avoid overlap with cooking.

Functionality

• The regeneration benefit of drinking will now stack with food benefits (some balancing changes may occur)

By having ingredients sourced in clear ways and using combinations of food items instead of tiers of ingredients, we will be able to cut the number of ingredients in half while still providing just as many recipes as we have now (if not more). This will require most, if not all, of the existing recipes to be changed to accommodate this new paradigm.

Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value.

Well here's my two copper ...

What you see is what you get.... thank Akatosh this is finally going to be true. I feel like Sheogorath walks around with my constantly when I am gathering mats. Question : Is there going to be another way to get crafting mats besides "stealing" them once the justice system comes out? I am a provisioner who spends at least one day a week gathering mats for foods and drinks for guild mates. Am I going to have to bring a couple of people with me to protect my backside while I gather mats to feel their belly?

Ability to eat a loaf of bread or a piece of honey steak and wash it down with some good mead.... BRILLIANT!!!

Cut the number of over all materials.... my bank and bag space thank you. I will have to find something to do with one of the mule characters though. I had to have two to hold all of the provisioning different materials. YAY!!! I'll get to make my second Night blade now woo hoo!

Oh wait... they said changing the recipes for the new paradigm (Hates the word paradigm) . I'm ok with this as long as I do not lose the ability to craft equal food and drink to what I can currently do.

Replacing with "stale" versions = bad juju. Talk about a pissed off community? When the dude that has stock piles of a material that becomes that could be the last straw for several of the constant whiners who keep threatening to leave the game but seem to hang around to torment the rest of us. (Sounds like a good thing to get rid of them but it is also a huge loss of revenue.) Back to the subject at hand, this can easily be taken care of by placing an exchange merchant in Stonefalls, Glenumbra, and Auridon. You have 1 stale salt rice you get 1 whatever. It can't be that hard to program in. I've seen it in several lesser quality MMOs in the last couple of years.

I do not like that the recipe drops would become more rare than they currently are. I have played 3 toons to veteran levels so far and have only gotten 2 purple drink recipes. And the first toon opened everything in the world that he could. He couldn't walk from the bank to the front of Stonefalls without going "Ooo shiny" then he was off to open trunks, drawers, etc.

Question: Will there be VR10 - 12 foods and drinks released with this update? Currently the top out is VR5, as far as I know.

I like that there is a real movement behind making provisioning a better system. Hopefully you change it so that it is better for all and not just those lucky enough to have found the purple.

he ^ just said thank akatosh im done lol too serious for me

therasia2_ESO

Love the idea of food and drink complementing one another to great stats for our characters. If the change includes an exchange of some sort for the ingredients one already has that will be great, and our levels kept intact that works for me as well. As already stated the purple recipes have been super difficult to come across...I have one and my main is VR 4. Looking forward to some great updates:)

CirithValaria

therasia2_ESO wrote: »

If the change includes an exchange of some sort for the ingredients one already has that will be great

and the answer so far is....

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible. Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value.

b92303008rwb17_ESO

Any rough ETA or new updates on the progress?

eventide03b14a_ESO

hanilvor wrote: »

With the new justice system, I hope that the availability of ingredients is looked at. The majority of my provisioning materials come from containers which it would be a punishable offense to take from...

There so many dungeons that are littered with containers, not to mention the many places that have containers, especially in cellars, that are left unguarded. I'm pretty sure that unless they add a lot more NPC's you will be fine looting from containers.

Vortimere

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible. Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value.

Would much rather see a seamless "exchange" on first login after this goes live of old materials for new materials in all character and bank inventories. Even if it's a 2-old for 1-new compromise, that's better than just taking all my existing mats and converting them to gold. If you want to provide value for effort that was already invested in collecting mats, then offer an exchange of the old mats for the new ones... don't just offer gold that we can't use to buy new mats.

When this goes live, it's an instant loss of value and gold doesn't provide an offset of lost value since you can't use it to replace what you lost. As an alternative to the seamless 2-for-1 exchange on first login, at least consider offering provisioning tokens instead of gold that can used for a limited time to buy new mats from an NPC priced in tokens by rarity; mats that can not be bought with gold, but can be bought with provisioning tokens provides real replacement value to those that invested time and effort in acquiring mats in the current system.

Murmeltier

It is fine to see that they work on the Crafting System and sure some of these Changes will be difficult, for the Devs and the Players.

I hope really you dont oversee that some Players have invested Tons of Time and Resources, to get an Epic V5 Provisioning Recipe. Don`t destroy the Feeling, that they have gathered something Special, don`t destroy these Recipes.

If you change something, Balancing is always difficult but don`t delete the Work and the Time some Players have invested, to get something Special.

Murmeltier

chiocco5000_ESO wrote: »

You should add the ability to make a cooking fire anywhere in the wild. As well as making a ability to make scrolls of recipes already known so they can be sold to other cooks.

Fantastic Idea, it could fits very well into the passive Skills for Provisioning. I like the Idea to see a Campfire in Night, with some Players around it. That gives the Game even more Atmosphere.

keelycbrailsfordb14_ESO

I'm all for the changes that will allow the needed fixes to provisioning - missing recipes, oddities with things like different level foods giving the same buff, Horker stew that needs Crawdads - you know, those OCD things. From a dev point of view, it's got to be cleaner to re-do it (a lot of work) vs. finding out how to get saltrice slurry and roast goat to have different item numbers without breaking a whole lot of other things (even more work).

Personally, I like how complex provisioning is right now - easiest to level up, hardest to master due to the sheer number of recipes. Changing it is going to wreak havoc with the economy until those that run the provisioning economy get things worked out. Not saying there is an Illuminati provisioning group sitting around a stone table making decisions, just individuals who understand how this stuff works and can make sound decisions on how much things are worth.

I would like to see something special or secrets to make it a little more... elite. Special crafting fires that let you combine foods or add extra buffs, combine a little provisioning and spellcrafting so you can make your own recipes with cool effects, finding special mats that allow you to unlock an ultimate skill that feeds your entire party with super charged food buffs for a shorter period of time (without wiping any edible food buffs of course.)

I would really like to see the ability to copy a character from the Live server to PTS for testing this content. ZOS will be making changes to our currently known provisioning recipes, and to the ingredients, and unless we have a character where we know exactly what was on them, what they knew, etc - we can't really test that part of the change, and I feel that is a critical necessity. There are a few of us that are 90% or more complete on known recipe completion - I don't know how many but it has been expensive to get there - and we need to have at least a few of those toons available to make sure that things go right when the conversions are applied. I considered going crazy with provisioning on the PTS - but I've realized that character is probably going to get deleted before the provisioning test patch goes live, so scrapping that idea.

That got longer than intended. Thanks for your time!

MornaBaine

Oh please make this happen and SOON! I really HATE provisioning and would have never started it had I known what a PAIN it was going to be! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE also let us BUY RECIPES from a vendor! It would make total sense to get these from a Chef. Also, for the love of all that is holy, please make GROCERS easier to find! And make them have EVERYTHING for the level zone they are in!

Lastly, I want to request a new recipe and think it should be a purple: SAMMICH!

caelumpanache

Tricks51074 wrote: »

Replacing with "stale" versions = bad juju. ... Back to the subject at hand, this can easily be taken care of by placing an exchange merchant in Stonefalls, Glenumbra, and Auridon. You have 1 stale salt rice you get 1 whatever. It can't be that hard to program in. I've seen it in several lesser quality MMOs in the last couple of years.

I like the idea of an exchange merchant to convert stale ingredients into fresh ingredients. It makes it less painful to lose my stockpiles of foods.

bruceb14_ESO5

Quite a ways earlier in this thread someone asked about skill points. I'm curious about the changes since I've only put skill points into creating any recipe, but not in some of the areas like adding duration and numbers of servings to food and to drink.

Wondering if there will be any changes regarding skill point allocation and if so will we have a choice to respec those points. The changes presented seem to be great/intuitive with food and drink benefits stacked, more organization regarding drops and less overall ingredients.

Nightreaver

I considered going crazy with provisioning on the PTS - but I've realized that character is probably going to get deleted before the provisioning test patch goes live, so scrapping that idea.

Did they say somewhere that they intend to delete characters on PTS? Why would they do that?

It would be nice if we could copy characters from Live to PTS since Provisioning is probably the worst Craft to level on PTS. You can create a VR12 character on PTS which makes it real easy to level the other Crafts but for Provisioning you still need the low level recipes to level and as a VR12 I am only finding VR5 recipes.

I leveled a new character from scratch to level 12 just to get the low level recipes but I'm only finding level 1 and 5 recipes. Got to level 38 Provisioner but using only level 1 and 5 green recipes it is going REAL slow.

Audigy

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’re considering a significant revamp of Provisioning, and we’d like to get your feedback on it. Our goals with this proposed change are to improve the experience of collecting ingredients, to get away from the idea of tiered components, and to make brewing more useful. In a nutshell, we want to allow you to utilize every basic foodstuff you see in the game with cooking.

Ingredients

• Cooking: What You See Is What You Get
  • You see grapes, you get grapes. You see cheese, you get cheese. No more clicking on a sack of green beans and getting aged meat.
• Brewing: Based on container type (barrels, sacks, and crates)
  • Brewing ingredients will be broken up by closed container type to keep them useful and to avoid overlap with cooking.

Functionality

• Food and drink categories will have clearer usage
  • Cooking: Meat = health, fruit = magicka, vegetables = stamina
  • Brewing: Alcohol = health, tea = magicka, tonic = stamina
• Combination recipes will be rarer, require more ingredients, and give multiple benefits as expected
  • Example: Rabbit (meat) and carrots (vegetable) may be combined if you have the Rabbit Stew recipe, and the result provides both a health and stamina pool increase (somewhat less than what a pure health or pure stamina food would provide, as in the current system).
• The regeneration benefit of drinking will now stack with food benefits (some balancing changes may occur)

By having ingredients sourced in clear ways and using combinations of food items instead of tiers of ingredients, we will be able to cut the number of ingredients in half while still providing just as many recipes as we have now (if not more). This will require most, if not all, of the existing recipes to be changed to accommodate this new paradigm.

Our current plan is to replace existing recipes and Provisioning items with the ones from the new system, matching quality as much as possible. Any additional unused basic ingredients from the previous incarnation of the system will be changed to “stale” versions of themselves, and we’d like to include some way to offload them that provides value.

We realize this is a major change and that many of you have invested heavily in leveling up Provisioning and collecting recipes, so we wanted to get your feedback before proceeding. We feel this would be a major improvement to the game and want to hear your thoughts on the matter!

I like the changes a lot.

Just a simple remark,

please let us use fish in the provisioning of the future. I catch a lot of fish and cant do anything with it. You would think that such a hero as ourselfs has at least learned that fish can actually be eaten, especially for Argonians this seems to be a bit flawed right now.

I am thinking about a tasty fish stew, some soup and a fish bread!