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Justice system sugestion (Addition) - Killing Other players in PVE.

  • Thechemicals
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    Tannakaobi wrote: »
    Im here to buzzkill all the pk's looking forward to these changes. You will never grief a player who doesn't want to participate in your sociopathic behavior. thanks and gnight.

    And like-wise the 'Carebears' will never be able to enjoy the justice system without crying and being demolished by my sociopathic behavior. <3 mwahh!

    Yeah my 9yr old niece wont be because of freaks like you but me, im the best at everything I do so I will be there to wipe the floor with you until you leave back to wow arena.
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • TehMagnus
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    Tannakaobi wrote: »
    Im here to buzzkill all the pk's looking forward to these changes. You will never grief a player who doesn't want to participate in your sociopathic behavior. thanks and gnight.

    And like-wise the 'Carebears' will never be able to enjoy the justice system without crying and being demolished by my sociopathic behavior. <3 mwahh!

    Yeah my 9yr old niece wont be because of freaks like you but me, im the best at everything I do so I will be there to wipe the floor with you until you leave back to wow arena.

    I'll just camp the level 1 zone waiting for them to make a mistake because I'm a griefer and I obviously have nothing better to do in game since I'm VR12 and there is no content.

    Btw, your 9yr old should be playing eso, it's for 18+,
    there is a brothel in the game :expressionless:

    Edit: oh and jokes asside: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122965/an-actual-poll-about-the-justice-system#latest <== Justice system disucssion :)
    Edited by TehMagnus on July 29, 2014 3:39PM
  • Tannakaobi
    Tannakaobi
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    Tannakaobi wrote: »
    Im here to buzzkill all the pk's looking forward to these changes. You will never grief a player who doesn't want to participate in your sociopathic behavior. thanks and gnight.

    And like-wise the 'Carebears' will never be able to enjoy the justice system without crying and being demolished by my sociopathic behavior. <3 mwahh!

    Yeah my 9yr old niece wont be because of freaks like you but me, im the best at everything I do so I will be there to wipe the floor with you until you leave back to wow arena.

    That would be tough, I never played the WoW arena, I was more into storming Stormwind and enjoying open world PVP.
    Most likely that it's your 9yr old niece putting you on your back every two minutes ganking you, making your opinions warped on open world PVP to start with!

    By the way, it's not really a suitable game for a 9yr old, it has a clear adult theme, and you are suggesting she gets involved with thieving and murder. You map want to point that out to her parents and stop her becoming a real Sociopath. But whatever...
  • Anastasia
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    theyancey wrote: »
    The more I read the more concerned I become about this. We seem to be on a track of less and less solo PvE content for the casual gamer, a major proportion of the player base if forum posts over the last year are accurate. There has been no horizontal PvE content added. After lvl 50 the reasons for said players to stay subbed are few and far between. If they stay they are forced into PvP or group/raid activities. Do you really expect people to stay, play, and pay a game that turns them off?

    I've enjoyed the game. I believe that my 6 month sub was a wise choice. I had been set to auto renew for another 6 months. I changed that this past week to month to month. Without content support to those like me and isolation from the PvP type players that frequently post here then is it not possible for 20%-40% of those to just bag it until update 3 or beyond? After all, there are some major new games set for release this fall. Are you peeps demanding world PvP willing to increase your subs to $25-$35 per month to offset the loss? I'm guessing not. Are the stakeholders in Zenimax willing to accept the resulting hit to their bottom line? Would you? Of course not. I sincerely doubt that any of the individual principals would either and I know that Providence, with its successful history of being an activist investor group, would let its $300MM stake wither without intervening.

    The challenge for Matt and Paul is create a game environment that results in most subs over the longest period of time. What we have now and what has been proposed satisfies no one. It may be that they must give up some of their initial visions of the game in order for it to flourish at its maximum. Maybe they really do need to have dedicated shards for the PvP crowd. The same for those more interested in RP. The griefers and gankers could have a field day on their side. The PvE players could have a justice system in line with their interests.

    One of the biggest successes this game has scored is in its informal grouping scenarios. You are able to blend in and out of dungeon mates without having to stop to deal with this one's bio break or that one's family agro. Everyone gets the same loot and quest completion. The megaserver reliably puts guildies and friends into the same shards. Given these accomplishments I see no barrier to ZOS being able to congregate and segregate PvPers into their shards and PvEers into ours. Both large groups would get what they want, be happier, and stay subbed longer.

    1. theyancey said: "We seem to be on a track of less and less solo PvE content for the casual gamer, a major proportion of the player base if forum posts over the last year are accurate. There has been no horizontal PvE content added. After lvl 50 the reasons for said players to stay subbed are few and far between. If they stay they are forced into PvP or group/raid activities." REALLY? With soloable levels 1 -50 and the nerf of all of V+ 1-10 mob difficulty making that SOLO-comfortable and the upcoming Wrothgar zone you think there is less and LESS SOLO PvE???


    2. And theyancey said: "The challenge for Matt and Paul is create a game environment that results in most subs over the longest period of time."

    Perhaps, or perhaps they have other goals in their career progression, ie to enjoy meeting the goals of their executives while keeping an eye toward personal fulfillment and future plans of the type of work they hope to be considered for based on their experience and the product they provided while working on TESO.

    The awesome work they've done in prepping this mmo and getting it launched will stand for more than only the amount made from subscriptions in a given period of time.

    Some do have personal principles and goals they try hard to mesh with the economic reality of their current professional positions. In this industry, ones' legacy is meticulously documented and easily dissected. Don't assume their focus is only on subs. (*)
    Edited by Anastasia on July 29, 2014 3:52PM
  • Thechemicals
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    Tannakaobi wrote: »
    Im here to buzzkill all the pk's looking forward to these changes. You will never grief a player who doesn't want to participate in your sociopathic behavior. thanks and gnight.

    And like-wise the 'Carebears' will never be able to enjoy the justice system without crying and being demolished by my sociopathic behavior. <3 mwahh!

    Yeah my 9yr old niece wont be because of freaks like you but me, im the best at everything I do so I will be there to wipe the floor with you until you leave back to wow arena.

    I'll just camp the level 1 zone waiting for them to make a mistake because I'm a griefer and I obviously have nothing better to do in game since I'm VR12 and there is no content.

    Btw, your 9yr old should be playing eso, it's for 18+,
    there is a brothel in the game :expressionless:

    Edit: oh and jokes asside: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122965/an-actual-poll-about-the-justice-system#latest <== Justice system disucssion :)

    You or me don't have any say in that. Its my niece so her dad makes that decision. And if you think a significant population in this game isn't under 18 then your kidding yourself. Yeah next time you grief kill and spam grief kill someone, that's probably anyone from 8yrs old -75 yrs old. Gj you win the loser achievement for that lol.
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • TehMagnus
    TehMagnus
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    Tannakaobi wrote: »
    Im here to buzzkill all the pk's looking forward to these changes. You will never grief a player who doesn't want to participate in your sociopathic behavior. thanks and gnight.

    And like-wise the 'Carebears' will never be able to enjoy the justice system without crying and being demolished by my sociopathic behavior. <3 mwahh!

    Yeah my 9yr old niece wont be because of freaks like you but me, im the best at everything I do so I will be there to wipe the floor with you until you leave back to wow arena.

    I'll just camp the level 1 zone waiting for them to make a mistake because I'm a griefer and I obviously have nothing better to do in game since I'm VR12 and there is no content.

    Btw, your 9yr old should be playing eso, it's for 18+,
    there is a brothel in the game :expressionless:

    Edit: oh and jokes asside: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122965/an-actual-poll-about-the-justice-system#latest <== Justice system disucssion :)

    You or me don't have any say in that. Its my niece so her dad makes that decision. And if you think a significant population in this game isn't under 18 then your kidding yourself. Yeah next time you grief kill and spam grief kill someone, that's probably anyone from 8yrs old -75 yrs old. Gj you win the loser achievement for that lol.

    So i get a dye too???
  • KariTR
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    Tannakaobi wrote: »
    Im here to buzzkill all the pk's looking forward to these changes. You will never grief a player who doesn't want to participate in your sociopathic behavior. thanks and gnight.

    And like-wise the 'Carebears' will never be able to enjoy the justice system without crying and being demolished by my sociopathic behavior. <3 mwahh!

    Yeah my 9yr old niece wont be because of freaks like you but me, im the best at everything I do so I will be there to wipe the floor with you until you leave back to wow arena.

    I'll just camp the level 1 zone waiting for them to make a mistake because I'm a griefer and I obviously have nothing better to do in game since I'm VR12 and there is no content.

    Btw, your 9yr old should be playing eso, it's for 18+,
    there is a brothel in the game :expressionless:

    Edit: oh and jokes asside: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122965/an-actual-poll-about-the-justice-system#latest <== Justice system disucssion :)

    You or me don't have any say in that. Its my niece so her dad makes that decision. And if you think a significant population in this game isn't under 18 then your kidding yourself. Yeah next time you grief kill and spam grief kill someone, that's probably anyone from 8yrs old -75 yrs old. Gj you win the loser achievement for that lol.

    Reading stuff like this is when I wish we had a virtual rolleyes.

    Is this some sort of parody, an unfinished SP episode perhaps? It's OK to steal from the 8-75 year olds, but gods forbid you suffer consequences for your actions.

    Please tell me you weren't being serious. If you are, I just may have to go lay down, the world has suddenly become too surreal.
  • Delith
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    Tannakaobi wrote: »
    Im here to buzzkill all the pk's looking forward to these changes. You will never grief a player who doesn't want to participate in your sociopathic behavior. thanks and gnight.

    And like-wise the 'Carebears' will never be able to enjoy the justice system without crying and being demolished by my sociopathic behavior. <3 mwahh!

    Yeah my 9yr old niece wont be because of freaks like you but me, im the best at everything I do so I will be there to wipe the floor with you until you leave back to wow arena.

    I'll just camp the level 1 zone waiting for them to make a mistake because I'm a griefer and I obviously have nothing better to do in game since I'm VR12 and there is no content.

    Btw, your 9yr old should be playing eso, it's for 18+,
    there is a brothel in the game :expressionless:

    Edit: oh and jokes asside: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122965/an-actual-poll-about-the-justice-system#latest <== Justice system disucssion :)

    You or me don't have any say in that. Its my niece so her dad makes that decision. And if you think a significant population in this game isn't under 18 then your kidding yourself. Yeah next time you grief kill and spam grief kill someone, that's probably anyone from 8yrs old -75 yrs old. Gj you win the loser achievement for that lol.

    Griefing wouldn't be a problem if developers were able to design a system that gave risk averse players a place to enjoy the game under guard protection.

    The world is big and scary, and protecting your children by lying to them about how humanity is, is setting them up for failure.

    People will try to hurt you. If you don't learn to deal with it, you're going to have a bad time.

    A virtual world is a good place to learn about how people are. Designing them so that all facets of humanity are available for expression is a good thing. Ignoring certain aspects is dishonest, and it's why games continually fail.
  • Delith
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    The problem here is you people want to be heroes without actually having any sort of challenge to performing admirably or heroically. You want everybody to worship you as righteous without ever even proving your ideal.

    It's lazy, and I'm embarrassed for you, so you don't have to be.
  • DieAlteHexe
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    Seravi wrote: »
    No, no, no and NO. PVP needs to stay in the PVP areas only. I know there are some changes coming with bounties and that is fine. Just don't give idiots the ability to run around killing anyone they want in the PVE areas. You want to tank this game, then make the change for all map areas to be PVP.

    this is what I'm talking about. You can't expect me to not call them carebears when they spout out stuff like this.

    You are not being forced to call anyone anything. You can disagree with someone here without name calling. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.

    Even if someone is wrong in your opinion (or wrong even in fact) or even if they don't have a complete understanding of how something is supposed to work does not dictate your actions. Can you not merely disagree and perhaps point out the fallacies in their arguments and not call other members of this forum names?

    Exactly. Saved me the typing.




    Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake
  • DieAlteHexe
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    Seravi wrote: »
    No, no, no and NO. PVP needs to stay in the PVP areas only. I know there are some changes coming with bounties and that is fine. Just don't give idiots the ability to run around killing anyone they want in the PVE areas. You want to tank this game, then make the change for all map areas to be PVP.

    this is what I'm talking about. You can't expect me to not call them carebears when they spout out stuff like this.

    You are not being forced to call anyone anything. You can disagree with someone here without name calling. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.

    Even if someone is wrong in your opinion (or wrong even in fact) or even if they don't have a complete understanding of how something is supposed to work does not dictate your actions. Can you not merely disagree and perhaps point out the fallacies in their arguments and not call other members of this forum names?

    It has nothing to do with disagreeing and everything to do with being regularly mis-characterized and insulted. Why should I take the time to make a reasonable argument when 1) the other party is not rational enough to fully grasp what I am saying, and 2) the other partly is actively insulting and hostile?

    Irony. ;)

    You mistake "disagreement" with "being irrational". One does not equal the other. As for why you should take the time? Well, if it's important enough to you to want to put forward your reasons, then you will get a lot further with potential discussion and, perhaps, agreement if you leave off the insults.

    And leading with insults (carebears OR griefers) is never, ever going to lead to a reasonable debate.


    Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake
  • yarnevk
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    Nope, making a PVE options for justice system => players abusing exploits to get away from NPCs and as Sage said "no matter what we do, you will allways find a way". Seems like no solving that one, at least not on dev side.

    So PVP players are so honorable they would never find a way to expliot player guards? That argument is so one sided to say that PVE players will exploit PVE guards. Of course Sage might have been just pandering to a PVP crowd at QuakeCon by saying there will be guard PVP so you too can chase nasty criminals and get in on the fun.

    There is no gameplay impact to my PVE stealing and killing on anyone else, it does not matter to anyone elses game if I decide to let the PVE guards chase me if I think it is fun.
  • DieAlteHexe
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    Zubba wrote: »
    Why is this such a hot topic anyway?

    It's tradtional. :)

    The Great Head-Butting of PvP vs. PvE.

    Whole lot of shouting, very little mind changing.


    Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake
  • nerevarine1138
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    yarnevk wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    Nope, making a PVE options for justice system => players abusing exploits to get away from NPCs and as Sage said "no matter what we do, you will allways find a way". Seems like no solving that one, at least not on dev side.

    So PVP players are so honorable they would never find a way to expliot player guards? That argument is so one sided to say that PVE players will exploit PVE guards. Of course Sage might have been just pandering to a PVP crowd at QuakeCon by saying there will be guard PVP so you too can chase nasty criminals and get in on the fun.

    There is no gameplay impact to my PVE stealing and killing on anyone else, it does not matter to anyone elses game if I decide to let the PVE guards chase me if I think it is fun.

    Please explain how you can "exploit" a player guard. A PvP player can exploit certain mechanics in order to boost their character (at least until the developers shut them down), but since they can't predict the behavior of a player guard, I don't see how they could exploit that behavior.
    ----
    Murray?
  • DieAlteHexe
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    magnusnet wrote: »
    yarnevk wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »

    Why would we assume that would change? Because if it wasn't intended to change, they would have released an other solo game and not a "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game"?

    MMOS are not PVP games stop equating the two. Interaction does not mean fighting, in most MMOS PVP is zoned and only opt-in and the majority of the game is PVE cooperative play, giving features to players so that they only have to play with people they want. That is why there is grouping filters, ignore filters, spam filters, guild filters, and instances that take all of that in to account All the PVE players are asking for is not to have to play with the likes of you, it is not going to affect your PVP experience one bit if they do not because they will quit the game before they have to anyways. They are not saying get rid of PVP for you, they are saying get rid of PVP in thier PVE instances. They want to play crime only with PVE consequences and have it affect only their game, just like every quest in the game only affects their game. It does not affect your game for them to make that choice. It would only affect your game if they crusaded to remove the PVP entirely, which nobody is doing because we are tolerant to understand why you want to play PVP, unlike your lack of tolerance for people who only want to play PVE.

    Of course the version will be tested on PTS by the griefers, based on past experience they are not going to report the issues so that they can be abused on live because that gives them months of enjoyment before they finally get caught by the admins and fixed by the coders.

    I never said "this is an MMO so it's PVP", I said "this is an MMO so it's not solo play".

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

    And where is it written (hint: it isn't) that MMO means "not solo play". MMO came along to indicate the ability for multiple people to play online at the same time. At one time this was an amazing achievement. It was never meant to convey "must socialise, must group" although to play some of the early MMOs in is understandable where the "must group" idea was born.

    MMOs are simply games played online according to the offerings of the developers of said game. Some have nothing but PvP, some a mixture, some rather do push for grouping and/or reward it, some lean more toward soloing.




    Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake
  • ZOS_AlanG
    ZOS_AlanG
    admin
    We appreciate everyone's thoughts, suggestions, and concerns on this matter. The Justice System is still in development, and feedback like this will certainly be considered.

    Please remember to keep your comments civil and constructive, particularly when weighing in on the ideas and opinions of others. Also, always be considerate of the forum rules. We've posted several reminders in this thread already, and these problems have persisted. If you feel someone is misbehaving, you should report their post rather than calling them out – and if you report a post, don't also respond to it. Note, it's possible any action taken will be behind the scenes.
    Forum Rules | Promoting Constructive Discussion | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Help Site

    I’ve moved to a new position and I am no longer active on this forum. For assistance, please check the resources linked above
    Staff Post
  • Delith
    Delith
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    ZOS_AlanG wrote: »
    We appreciate everyone's thoughts, suggestions, and concerns on this matter. The Justice System is still in development, and feedback like this will certainly be considered.

    Please remember to keep your comments civil and constructive, particularly when weighing in on the ideas and opinions of others. Also, always be considerate of the forum rules. We've posted several reminders in this thread already, and these problems have persisted. If you feel someone is misbehaving, you should report their post rather than calling them out – and if you report a post, don't also respond to it. Note, it's possible any action taken will be behind the scenes.

    Was it civil and polite to take one of the most beloved intellectual properties of our generation and remove all semblance of freedom for the sake of appeasing a lowest common denominator, further encouraging the terrifying level of entitlement and risk aversion ever present in western culture?

    Wonder if you should expect civil/polite conversation then.
  • yarnevk
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    Most MMOs are in fact single player questing with a chat room because that is exactly what players want outside of the end game so that they can quickly level at their fast pace on their own playtime and not have to wait on others to play. ESO does not even have any cooperative quests outside of the the new craglorn, all of the lvl50 quests are single player within your instance phase. Even if you group up you cannot do quests together, all you really get is an extra chat tab and help on mobs. All the modern MMOs have instance phasing primarily because if questing was forced to be interactable with other players, then other players would grief their quests from being completed.
    Edited by yarnevk on July 29, 2014 5:08PM
  • Nox_Aeterna
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    ZOS_AlanG wrote: »
    We appreciate everyone's thoughts, suggestions, and concerns on this matter. The Justice System is still in development, and feedback like this will certainly be considered.

    Please remember to keep your comments civil and constructive, particularly when weighing in on the ideas and opinions of others. Also, always be considerate of the forum rules. We've posted several reminders in this thread already, and these problems have persisted. If you feel someone is misbehaving, you should report their post rather than calling them out – and if you report a post, don't also respond to it. Note, it's possible any action taken will be behind the scenes.

    Good enough , still , until more information is given , many of the concerns cant be confirmed and so on.

    One can hope that these thread did alert the devs to this potential problem.
    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
    -Hanlon's razor
  • yarnevk
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    Please explain how you can "exploit" a player guard. A PvP player can exploit certain mechanics in order to boost their character (at least until the developers shut them down), but since they can't predict the behavior of a player guard, I don't see how they could exploit that behavior.

    Maybe you should just go read the PVP section of the forum and find the daily even hourly posts about exploits and hackers. Exploitation is not a PVE exclusive behavior so stop trying to use it to justify why PVP guards are needed. If PVE criminals are griefing other players, then they need to change the coding of the instances so that cannot happen and put the admins to work, it is not the job of PVP guards to police the game from others ruining others fun.

    How is it that you define running away from guards to be exploitation is beyond me, that is the entire point of criminal activities in the entire TES series. "Stop right there criminal scum" never meant you had to stop, you always had the option to run. It would only be exploitation if that behavior somehow interfered with other players gameplay. If ZOS is actually annoyed with people running they simply can change guard AI to be instakill teleports, but of course they will not do that because that is not any fun. If I wanted to exploit player guards from having fun, I would simply pay my bounty and not run. Running from the guards is exactly what PVE and PVP guarding is about, it is the entire purpose of having guards in the first place.


    Edited by yarnevk on July 29, 2014 5:17PM
  • nerevarine1138
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    yarnevk wrote: »
    Please explain how you can "exploit" a player guard. A PvP player can exploit certain mechanics in order to boost their character (at least until the developers shut them down), but since they can't predict the behavior of a player guard, I don't see how they could exploit that behavior.

    Maybe you should just go read the PVP section of the forum and find the daily even hourly posts about exploits and hackers. Exploitation is not a PVE exclusive behavior.

    How is it that you define running away from guards to be exploitation is beyond me, that is the entire point of criminal activities in the entire TES series. "Stop right there criminal scum" never meant you had to stop, you always had the option to run. It would only be exploitation if that behavior somehow interfered with other players gameplay. If I wanted to exploit player guards from having fun, I would simply pay my bounty and not run. Running from the guards is exactly what PVE and PVP guarding is about, it is the entire purpose of having guards in the first place.


    Ok, I think the issue is that we're using the word "exploit" differently.

    You're referring to PvP exploits like speed bugs, players using abilities through walls, etc. Those are all exploits that involve the player in question manipulating an unintended bug to their advantage. It does not involve them exploiting the other players' behavior in any way, because that's not possible. More importantly, it is something the developers can fix, because it's a mechanic that isn't functioning as intended.

    I'm referring to exploits like you see in Tower runs in Craglorn these days: where I can aggro upwards of 12 enemies, but as long as I run to a batch of rocks that are considered "off limits," they have to give up the chase. There are always ways to exploit NPC behavior like that, and that's not something the developers can fix. AI programming simply isn't nuanced enough yet.

    Edit: You also seem to assume that the type of hacks and exploits you refer to are limited to PvP situations. They're available to everyone, which is why it's a moot point.
    Edited by nerevarine1138 on July 29, 2014 5:19PM
    ----
    Murray?
  • TehMagnus
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    yarnevk wrote: »
    Most MMOs are in fact single player questing with a chat room because that is exactly what players want outside of the end game so that they can quickly level at their fast pace on their own playtime and not have to wait on others to play. ESO does not even have any cooperative quests outside of the the new craglorn, all of the lvl50 quests are single player within your instance phase. Even if you group up you cannot do quests together, all you really get is an extra chat tab and help on mobs. All the modern MMOs have instance phasing primarily because if questing was forced to be interactable with other players, then other players would grief their quests from being completed.

    They said in Quakecon that they intend to do changes to grouping system so people can share objectives & quest advancement.
  • Probitas
    Probitas
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    Want to kill this game fast? Sure way to do that is to force PVP onto PVE players in areas that were normally designated as purely PVE. You bored outta your skull cause you have nothing to do in Cyrodil as you have to fight other PVP players who are as skilled or more so? PVE players should not become a game mechanic.
  • Audigy
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    yarnevk wrote: »
    Most MMOs are in fact single player questing with a chat room because that is exactly what players want outside of the end game so that they can quickly level at their fast pace on their own playtime and not have to wait on others to play. ESO does not even have any cooperative quests outside of the the new craglorn, all of the lvl50 quests are single player within your instance phase. Even if you group up you cannot do quests together, all you really get is an extra chat tab and help on mobs. All the modern MMOs have instance phasing primarily because if questing was forced to be interactable with other players, then other players would grief their quests from being completed.

    MMOs have always been about player interaction. It can be questing, trading, raiding, pvp, roleplaying, crafting ...

    I don't know any MMO besides WOW... which is a solo play MMO. So your "majority" does not really exist.

    The whole purpose of actually paying a sub after buying an MMO is the group activity. Why should someone pay 13 bucks every month, if he or she can get a single player game by paying 30 bucks once? A game this person can mod as much as he want by the way!

    We do have many good single player RPGs, many of them are by Bethesda so you don't need to play ESO if you dislike the interaction with other human beings.

    Before WOTLK there was never any discussion in regards of "I want to not see anyone" while playing an MMO. Its a really sad situation we are in right now, where players try to turn MMOs into boring offline games for those who picked MMOs for the interaction.


    A good MMO will always offer things for many people. ESO had the 1-50 content for single players, the VR for multiplayers and Cyrodil + Justice for the pvp crowd. The constant nagging and hating on other people just because they don't want a single player doesn't make any sense and it should stop.


    A lot of things said about "multi players" or pvp folks are disrespectful and wrong. It sometimes seems that people try to bully those old-school gamers whenever possible and this aint alright.

    I miss the days of UO, SWG and EQ where people didn't care if you did pvp, pve, rp or something else. People were playing a game together and they accepted other player types. Today its all so hostile, it just makes me sad.
    Edited by Audigy on July 30, 2014 3:29AM
  • Haewk
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    Audigy wrote: »
    I miss the days of UO, SWG and EQ where people didn't care if you did pvp, pve, rp or something else. People were playing a game together and they accepted other player types. Today its all so hostile, it just makes me sad.

    I'm sorry, you are living in fantasy land. People were never accepting. EQ was overloaded with complaints. They segregated PvP onto its own server and basically said we are not going to police players, you play on the pvp server you deal with the consequences (although they went back on their word by banning Fancy so I can only imagine the kind of complaining that was going on to force them into it).
    1. Long drawn out leveling process, lots of complaints
    2. Extreme weekly drama with exploiting, name calling, tag games, cheating etc as top end guilds race to be the first to dungeons/bosses when they spawn
    3. Many, many complaints about griefing, for instance mobs trained onto other players, especially bards that could outrun mobs and monks that could feign death
    4. Many, many complaints about players monopolizing areas
    5. Many, many complaints about almost everything being group content
    6. Many, many complaints about the difficulty of some content
    7. Many, many complaints about having to recover your gear from where you died

    Yes, some players may have liked to play in those ways but the complaints were numerous and loud enough for a company called Blizzard to take note, address some of those issues and produce a roaring success.
  • TehMagnus
    TehMagnus
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    Probitas wrote: »
    Want to kill this game fast? Sure way to do that is to force PVP onto PVE players in areas that were normally designated as purely PVE. You bored outta your skull cause you have nothing to do in Cyrodil as you have to fight other PVP players who are as skilled or more so? PVE players should not become a game mechanic.

    Nobody is talking about forcing anything, if you look @ OP there are many ideas explained & exposed.

    No need to speculate either on why some people want this, especially with such wrong assumptions, players who want duels just want the ability to duel people in the world. Those who want a flag system for world PVP just want a "hardcore mode" on the game. Those who want entire areas of PVE/PVP (like imperial city) like the rush of expecting the unexpected when you're playing.

    As for "PVE players should not become a game mechanic", you do realize that a player can't be a game mechanic since there is no set of defined rules that define how a player will behave?
  • TehMagnus
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    yarnevk wrote: »
    magnusnet wrote: »
    Nope, making a PVE options for justice system => players abusing exploits to get away from NPCs and as Sage said "no matter what we do, you will allways find a way". Seems like no solving that one, at least not on dev side.

    So PVP players are so honorable they would never find a way to expliot player guards? That argument is so one sided to say that PVE players will exploit PVE guards. Of course Sage might have been just pandering to a PVP crowd at QuakeCon by saying there will be guard PVP so you too can chase nasty criminals and get in on the fun.

    There is no gameplay impact to my PVE stealing and killing on anyone else, it does not matter to anyone elses game if I decide to let the PVE guards chase me if I think it is fun.

    Who what huh? MMMmmf? Who are these "PVP" players you speak of? Are you talking about Cyrodill? Sure there are some mechanics exploit with the guards guarding the resources per example, then again you're missing the point.

    First of all, the appellation "PVP player" is vague and incorrect since I play PVP & PVE and I don't consider myself a "PVP player" nor a "PVE player"( like most of the people playing this game who do a bit of both).

    As for the justice system, who cares if a "PVP" or a "PVE" player is exploiting player guard mechanics? the whole purpose of the system including PC guards is to avoid any player exploiting the guard's mechanics.

    The argument is not about PVE players exploiting and not PVP, it's about a PVE-only system being easily exploitable by anyone whereas with the small PVP component, people wont be able to exploit any mechanic to get away.

    It is an impact if you kill NPCs on everybody else since they also die on their screens. It is an impact if you steal containers since I suspect one of the main points of having a justice system is to avoid those mindless drones that farm containers for hours by loging out/loging in.
  • Zubba
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    Zubba wrote: »
    Why is this such a hot topic anyway?

    It's tradtional. :)

    The Great Head-Butting of PvP vs. PvE.

    Whole lot of shouting, very little mind changing.

    I Think I will make my own mmo. It will be named Carebears vs Leet Feets. Should be a big hit.
    Add PvP loot drops for some risk/reward in this game.

    Captain Morgan Society
    Zub

    How'd ya feel like scraping the barncles off me rudder.. Matey..
  • RedMiniStapler
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    Zubba wrote: »
    Zubba wrote: »
    Why is this such a hot topic anyway?

    It's tradtional. :)

    The Great Head-Butting of PvP vs. PvE.

    Whole lot of shouting, very little mind changing.

    I Think I will make my own mmo. It will be named Carebears vs Leet Feets. Should be a big hit.

    Sounds like a pvp game *hisses*
    More important question, will it be sold on steam later on? With an exclusive pet bonus?
  • shiva7663
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    We're going to need an enhanced griefer reporting system in-game.
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