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Justice system sugestion (Addition) - Killing Other players in PVE.
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Akiainavas✭✭✭No. Want to kill others - go to Cyrodil. There is no room for ganking and griefing in this game.
The first day some bored idiot will be able to kill me while i'm talking to an NPC and reading the quest - will be the day I cancel my sub and never return.
Call me a carebear if you want, or any other name pvp players like to call us - but just as we cannot force our play style on you - you should not be able to force it on us. Enough said.4 -
crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is nothing worst than a griefer... I play PvP every other day and although I'm not very good at it I enjoy it because I know what I'm up for. Someone ganking me while I'm on the crafting station or RP'ing? NO THANK YOU! (unless I did some crimes, because then I've been asking for it). SO to me it seems the solution ZOS has come about with is perfect and anyone wanting free world pvp are in the wrong game, go play Dayz if thats your thing!
Supposedly a lot of peeps joining thieves gold and "asking for it", and then lot of peeps joining the Guards guild.
End result would be no different than any open world pvp. Just a bunch of innocent peeps getting interrupted and annoyed.
Now imagine v12s of these guilds roaming across major cities. ..Edited by crislevin on July 29, 2014 10:51AM2 -
Haewk✭✭✭Haewk,
I'm glad you concede that there is no precedent with multiplayer in the ES franchise, so you should also agree that the franchise's history has no real value in unchartered waters. There's never been a set policy on what players can or can't do before.
Look, I just got annoyed that someone claims ESO should naturally have world PvP because you could attack anything in TES and therefore (giant leap of logic) you should be able to attack other players.Let's say TESO came out with the justice system in place that had PVP a part of it. Would you take the same stance? Or would you just accept that was part of this game's homage to freedom of play?
There is *NO* homage to freedom of play. You get led by your nose zone by zone. You are locked out of content until you reach required levels. You have class only skills. You have a skill point system that locks you out of skills. You have a limited selection of skills available to you in combat. Leveling to max requires grouping. You cannot just move out of AoE to avoid it, you must dodge.0 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »Having to play ESO with the PvP types that post in these forums around me would greatly diminish my enjoyment of the game. I'm afraid that it will make wandering around a town as peacefully interesting as a crowded bank. The same skeevers will be trying to bother other players outside as they do now inside. I think that it has the potential of completely breaking the game for many.
How badly will it impact my enjoyment? I don't think that any of us can say yet. It concerns me enough that I switched my sub renewal in November from six months to monthly. Time will tell.
It's stuff like that that makes us call you carebears and hope for true world pvp so we can pk you at will.
You get all mad when you get insulted but drop insults yourself like it's just fact.
You are not the center of the universe.
Nor are PvPers, and I would like to ask, politely, that you refrain from using terms like "carebear", well, at least if you want to have a civil conversation. That you want to be able to clobber anyone at will is fine in the games that support that. And there are quite a few. I will never understand why dyed-in-the-wool PvPers buy a game, subscribe *knowing* the PvP (or lack thereof) and then start agitating for PvP. Why not just play a game that is written for PvP/RvR from the ground up? I don't go over to Eve or others of that ilk and start agitating for PvE to become the main focus.
Just boggles my mind.
you could say the same about pve'rs, on launch endgame for this was pvp. devs just caved and added some pve endgame.
opt in world pvp is coming so it seems like pvp is a staple.
It's really hard to refrain from the carebear insults when people call you a griefer and act like you are some subhuman monster for daring to want to fight other players.
I would disagree with that. I think end-game content was added because, as is usual, the devs got caught flat-footed by just how fast some people can consume content.
As for the rest, rise above it, don't wallow. All you're doing is perpetuating a stereotype applied to PvPers which isn't necessarily a fair one. Don't do the "but Moooommmmm, he started it.".
Both sides need to learn to converse/debate without name calling. I will say there are actually "griefers" who go out of their way to upset other players with their behaviour. "Carebears'" behaviour isn't upsetting to anyone, well, aside from "griefers" who a pitching a wobbly because "carebears" won't happily be fodder.
no carebears can grief with their selfish behavior just as well. I've been griefed a few times on entirely pve games.
griefers will grief.
Also, I am all about the "he started it" argument with this. If I felt that most of the involved parties were worth the effort of civilized posts I would, but the amount of raging by pve'rs here at the very thought of pvp just existing in the same area as them does not deserve any sort of civility.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
Seravi✭✭✭✭✭No, no, no and NO. PVP needs to stay in the PVP areas only. I know there are some changes coming with bounties and that is fine. Just don't give idiots the ability to run around killing anyone they want in the PVE areas. You want to tank this game, then make the change for all map areas to be PVP.2 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, no, no and NO. PVP needs to stay in the PVP areas only. I know there are some changes coming with bounties and that is fine. Just don't give idiots the ability to run around killing anyone they want in the PVE areas. You want to tank this game, then make the change for all map areas to be PVP.
this is what I'm talking about. You can't expect me to not call them carebears when they spout out stuff like this.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »No, no, no and NO. PVP needs to stay in the PVP areas only. I know there are some changes coming with bounties and that is fine. Just don't give idiots the ability to run around killing anyone they want in the PVE areas. You want to tank this game, then make the change for all map areas to be PVP.
this is what I'm talking about. You can't expect me to not call them carebears when they spout out stuff like this.
You are not being forced to call anyone anything. You can disagree with someone here without name calling. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Even if someone is wrong in your opinion (or wrong even in fact) or even if they don't have a complete understanding of how something is supposed to work does not dictate your actions. Can you not merely disagree and perhaps point out the fallacies in their arguments and not call other members of this forum names?
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smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »No, no, no and NO. PVP needs to stay in the PVP areas only. I know there are some changes coming with bounties and that is fine. Just don't give idiots the ability to run around killing anyone they want in the PVE areas. You want to tank this game, then make the change for all map areas to be PVP.
this is what I'm talking about. You can't expect me to not call them carebears when they spout out stuff like this.
You are not being forced to call anyone anything. You can disagree with someone here without name calling. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Even if someone is wrong in your opinion (or wrong even in fact) or even if they don't have a complete understanding of how something is supposed to work does not dictate your actions. Can you not merely disagree and perhaps point out the fallacies in their arguments and not call other members of this forum names?
It has nothing to do with disagreeing and everything to do with being regularly mis-characterized and insulted. Why should I take the time to make a reasonable argument when 1) the other party is not rational enough to fully grasp what I am saying, and 2) the other partly is actively insulting and hostile?Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well 99% of the posts beginning by "NO NO NO" clearly, didn't even read my original post where I address 99% of the concerns they have. They see "PVP in PVE" and it's like "Red Flag", commies are trying to invade Texas. No argumentation, only apocalyptic scenarios and NONONONONO posts.
Even though I wont resort to name calling because I know where that leads in this forum, I can understand why some people would loose patience towards such close minded negative attitudes.
I just ignore them now, no point trying to argue with people who can't even take 3 min to read the subject before posting alarmist comments.Edited by TehMagnus on July 29, 2014 12:08PM1 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »No, no, no and NO. PVP needs to stay in the PVP areas only. I know there are some changes coming with bounties and that is fine. Just don't give idiots the ability to run around killing anyone they want in the PVE areas. You want to tank this game, then make the change for all map areas to be PVP.
this is what I'm talking about. You can't expect me to not call them carebears when they spout out stuff like this.
You are not being forced to call anyone anything. You can disagree with someone here without name calling. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Even if someone is wrong in your opinion (or wrong even in fact) or even if they don't have a complete understanding of how something is supposed to work does not dictate your actions. Can you not merely disagree and perhaps point out the fallacies in their arguments and not call other members of this forum names?
It has nothing to do with disagreeing and everything to do with being regularly mis-characterized and insulted. Why should I take the time to make a reasonable argument when 1) the other party is not rational enough to fully grasp what I am saying, and 2) the other partly is actively insulting and hostile?
Then why respond at all to someone that is being insulting and/or an idiot? Better to take their argument apart bit by bit, showing their colors that stoop to that level of name calling? If someone is making personal attacks then report them. Two wrongs don't make a right.
You are obviously an intelligent person and capable of debating an argument well. If someone belittles themselves by insulting you instead of making points to counter the argument I would think you more than capable of making a good comeback (if you felt the need to respond) without just calling someone names.
And I would say this of anyone that responds in such a fashion.
People don't read posts, they don't bother to figure things out...this is the nature of forums. Point these things out. Point of the facts and break their post to pieces. None of that requires a response of name calling.
edit: I apologize for derailing this topic a bit.Edited by kassandratheclericb14_ESO on July 29, 2014 12:19PM2 -
Zadian✭✭✭There is an easy solution for the justice system pvp. Zenimax just has to add an option in the settings to opt out entirely. The standard setting would be opted out. Joining the thieves guild or the dark brotherhood will change the setting to oped in - after showing a big fat waring - and a very easy way to change that (just like being able to cure vampirism or lycanthropy).
If a player is opted out no NPCs are attackable, the player won't see anything that can be stolen, no heals for those in justice system pvp. Not a single chance of doing something that could possible result in getting involved in the justice system. Those players could get their own town shards where they don't see anybody who is involved in the justice system (no dead cities, not fighting in towns…).
If someone wants to play the game with the justice system they just can opt in and see things they can steal, get NPCs that are attackable.
That way those who don't want to pvp at all can be sure they won't get into pvp by accident, no matter what they do in PvE.
Those who want a bit of PvP in PvE areas can use the justice system the way Zenimax showed it in the Quakecon video.
I think with the option to completely opt out of the justice system almost everybody could be happy.
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Izzban✭✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
But just to emphasize again, because no one seems to get it: griefing is not possible in this system.
I can think of ways to grief. I don't even want to grief and I can easily think of them.
Most of you seem to be focused on the thief as the victim. I think the thief will be the vehicle of the ganking and griefing.
Consider this: a lv 10 and a VR12 go to one of the populated low level towns. The lv 10 sets up to steal from an NPC in full sight of a Player who has opted-in as a guard. The lv 10 steals and gets caught, the Player guard engages. The VR12 then ALSO steals/murders and is flagged for PVP. VR12 then heals the lv 10 or stands near the lv 10 to get caught in the Player guard AOE. Player guard is now flagged for PVP with the VR12. Proceed to gank the lowbies.
That is one simple example of a way to gank low level guard players.
How easy would it be for a high level to run around a low level area with guards chasing him hoping for a low level opt-in guard player to cast a heal/attack and flag for PVP with him. Result: Lowbie Ganked.
Just because you opted to become a guard doesn't mean you should be open to ganking and griefing. Even Cyrodil gives players a buff to help them defend themselves, this PVP system gives low levels the raw deal.
Nerevarine, I respect your opinion. Your posts are well thought out and I usually agree with you. In this case, I must take exception with your stance that griefing and ganking cannot occur. We need more information and testing before we can say that ganking and griefing cannot occur.
lol wut? None of that sounds like griefing, all of those people opted in to the process. If you are level 10, don't opt in, problem solved. If a guard is only targetting level 10s, he would deserve that. Not that I wouldn't kill level 10s, I do not discriminate. I am an equal opportunity murderer.
Also, we better be able to preemptively attack guards, my attacks depend on stealth.
I posted about healing maybe on this thread maybe on another, it will need to be addressed, I'm not sure how but I don't yet know how they will implement it. If someone is healing my target, however, I should definitely be able to kill them. Furthermore, if the low level in this snecnario is a guard, he is opting in, as well. He is not being ganked in this scenario, he is even initiating.
You clearly have 0 idea what griefing is.
Are you trying to tell me that one can only be griefed, or ganked if one does not opt-in?
Are you saying that there is NO WAY to grief or gank anyone in open world PVP games? (because, of course, they all opted in)
Let me get this straight...smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »lol wut? None of that sounds like griefing, all of those people opted in to the process.
The irony....smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »You clearly have 0 idea what griefing is.
We all know that griefing and ganking are most common in open world PVP games where everybody opted-in. Therefore, it is certainly possible to grief or gank in the upcoming justice system whether it is opt-in or not. (definitions aside, I don't want to argue semantics)
My point, in my first scenario, was that a low level town will be patrolled/enforced mainly by low level player guards. What VR12 is going to watch for crime in Davon's Watch? (well, a ganker might want to.....) Assuming all the VR12s aren't chomping at the bit to get to the starting towns and stomp all the lv 4 newbie criminals, I think the towns will see level appropriate criminals and guards.
This is where the gankers come in and move to low level areas so they can ruin the lives (virtual, of course) of all the lowbies.
Look, the fact is, there is no buff to give the low levels a chance against the high levels, such as there is in cyrodiil. That WILL lead to players trying to figure out ways to slap around the newbies. Irregardless of the fact that the player opted to participate, this system is flawed from inception and will lead to frustrated new players.
Is that desirable?
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leandro.800ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭Loot thing in caverns and outside of town done.
I mean im not gona waist time in low levels waiting for some lv5 to kil la an npc and get no exp for killing him.0 -
Sotha_Sil✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well 99% of the posts beginning by "NO NO NO" clearly, didn't even read my original post where I address 99% of the concerns they have. They see "PVP in PVE" and it's like "Red Flag", commies are trying to invade Texas. No argumentation, only apocalyptic scenarios and NONONONONO posts.
Even though I wont resort to name calling because I know where that leads in this forum, I can understand why some people would loose patience towards such close minded negative attitudes.
I just ignore them now, no point trying to argue with people who can't even take 3 min to read the subject before posting alarmist comments.
NONONONO. Sorry I couldn't help it.
By the way, PvP in PvE sounds amazing and the justice system will rock I am sure. It won't be open pvp anyway so I don't why there are complaints.
Edited by Sotha_Sil on July 29, 2014 12:47PMRestoration is a perfectly valid school of magic, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! - Spells and incantations for those with the talent to cast them!2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is an easy solution for the justice system pvp. Zenimax just has to add an option in the settings to opt out entirely. The standard setting would be opted out. Joining the thieves guild or the dark brotherhood will change the setting to oped in - after showing a big fat waring - and a very easy way to change that (just like being able to cure vampirism or lycanthropy).
If a player is opted out no NPCs are attackable, the player won't see anything that can be stolen, no heals for those in justice system pvp. Not a single chance of doing something that could possible result in getting involved in the justice system. Those players could get their own town shards where they don't see anybody who is involved in the justice system (no dead cities, not fighting in towns…).
If someone wants to play the game with the justice system they just can opt in and see things they can steal, get NPCs that are attackable.
That way those who don't want to pvp at all can be sure they won't get into pvp by accident, no matter what they do in PvE.
Those who want a bit of PvP in PvE areas can use the justice system the way Zenimax showed it in the Quakecon video.
I think with the option to completely opt out of the justice system almost everybody could be happy.
This implies that all the containers inside buildings and maybe even in towns will no longer be lootable for players that opt out of justice system.
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TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »
But just to emphasize again, because no one seems to get it: griefing is not possible in this system.
I can think of ways to grief. I don't even want to grief and I can easily think of them.
Most of you seem to be focused on the thief as the victim. I think the thief will be the vehicle of the ganking and griefing.
Consider this: a lv 10 and a VR12 go to one of the populated low level towns. The lv 10 sets up to steal from an NPC in full sight of a Player who has opted-in as a guard. The lv 10 steals and gets caught, the Player guard engages. The VR12 then ALSO steals/murders and is flagged for PVP. VR12 then heals the lv 10 or stands near the lv 10 to get caught in the Player guard AOE. Player guard is now flagged for PVP with the VR12. Proceed to gank the lowbies.
That is one simple example of a way to gank low level guard players.
How easy would it be for a high level to run around a low level area with guards chasing him hoping for a low level opt-in guard player to cast a heal/attack and flag for PVP with him. Result: Lowbie Ganked.
Just because you opted to become a guard doesn't mean you should be open to ganking and griefing. Even Cyrodil gives players a buff to help them defend themselves, this PVP system gives low levels the raw deal.
Nerevarine, I respect your opinion. Your posts are well thought out and I usually agree with you. In this case, I must take exception with your stance that griefing and ganking cannot occur. We need more information and testing before we can say that ganking and griefing cannot occur.
lol wut? None of that sounds like griefing, all of those people opted in to the process. If you are level 10, don't opt in, problem solved. If a guard is only targetting level 10s, he would deserve that. Not that I wouldn't kill level 10s, I do not discriminate. I am an equal opportunity murderer.
Also, we better be able to preemptively attack guards, my attacks depend on stealth.
I posted about healing maybe on this thread maybe on another, it will need to be addressed, I'm not sure how but I don't yet know how they will implement it. If someone is healing my target, however, I should definitely be able to kill them. Furthermore, if the low level in this snecnario is a guard, he is opting in, as well. He is not being ganked in this scenario, he is even initiating.
You clearly have 0 idea what griefing is.
Are you trying to tell me that one can only be griefed, or ganked if one does not opt-in?
Are you saying that there is NO WAY to grief or gank anyone in open world PVP games? (because, of course, they all opted in)
Let me get this straight...smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »lol wut? None of that sounds like griefing, all of those people opted in to the process.
The irony....smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »You clearly have 0 idea what griefing is.
We all know that griefing and ganking are most common in open world PVP games where everybody opted-in. Therefore, it is certainly possible to grief or gank in the upcoming justice system whether it is opt-in or not. (definitions aside, I don't want to argue semantics)
My point, in my first scenario, was that a low level town will be patrolled/enforced mainly by low level player guards. What VR12 is going to watch for crime in Davon's Watch? (well, a ganker might want to.....) Assuming all the VR12s aren't chomping at the bit to get to the starting towns and stomp all the lv 4 newbie criminals, I think the towns will see level appropriate criminals and guards.
This is where the gankers come in and move to low level areas so they can ruin the lives (virtual, of course) of all the lowbies.
Look, the fact is, there is no buff to give the low levels a chance against the high levels, such as there is in cyrodiil. That WILL lead to players trying to figure out ways to slap around the newbies. Irregardless of the fact that the player opted to participate, this system is flawed from inception and will lead to frustrated new players.
Is that desirable?
VR players can only enfore justice in VR areas, players with level 1-25 can only enforce justice in1-25 areas and same for 25-50 areas?
Oops, did I just solve the issue with an extremely easy system? If you thought about the issue and I thought about an answer, don't you think ZOS addressed that in their Brainstormings?
Ah maybe it's unfair for a level 1 to be ganked by a level 20 as soon as he robs something? well he'll be equally destroyed by guards, and who said game had to be fair? They are filthy thieves after all
.
Plus the PVP buffs in Cyrodill are ridiculous (since everybody has them including max level players). Put a level 40 player with Cyro with buffs vs a VR12 DK, NB,templar or Sorc who knows what he is doing, all skills maxed & evolved in a 1V1 fight: He'll drop like nothing in 5 secs no matter what he does.Edited by TehMagnus on July 29, 2014 12:57PM1 -
yarnevk✭✭✭
Why would we assume that would change? Because if it wasn't intended to change, they would have released an other solo game and not a "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game"?
MMOS are not PVP games stop equating the two. Interaction does not mean fighting, in most MMOS PVP is zoned and only opt-in and the majority of the game is PVE cooperative play, giving features to players so that they only have to play with people they want. That is why there is grouping filters, ignore filters, spam filters, guild filters, and instances that take all of that in to account All the PVE players are asking for is not to have to play with the likes of you, it is not going to affect your PVP experience one bit if they do not because they will quit the game before they have to anyways. They are not saying get rid of PVP for you, they are saying get rid of PVP in thier PVE instances. They want to play crime only with PVE consequences and have it affect only their game, just like every quest in the game only affects their game. It does not affect your game for them to make that choice. It would only affect your game if they crusaded to remove the PVP entirely, which nobody is doing because we are tolerant to understand why you want to play PVP, unlike your lack of tolerance for people who only want to play PVE.
Of course the version will be tested on PTS by the griefers, based on past experience they are not going to report the issues so that they can be abused on live because that gives them months of enjoyment before they finally get caught by the admins and fixed by the coders.
Edited by yarnevk on July 29, 2014 1:00PM1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
So either now high level players are barred from looting in low level towns, or we get to 1 hit KO the capped L25 player guard.
VR players can only enfore justice in VR areas, players with level 1-25 can only enforce justice in1-25 areas and same for 25-50 areas?
Oops, did I just solve the issue with an extremely easy system?
Yeah, sounds solved
Edited by babylon on July 29, 2014 1:03PM2 -
yarnevk✭✭✭
Nope, Justice system is for introducing consequences to NPCs killing which involves other players enforcing the consequences so that you cannot avoid those consequences by exploiting game mechanics. You can introduce NPCs Killing without a Justice System. You can't introduce a justice system without introducing stealing and NPC killing.
I can make the same argument that vampires and werewolves are nasty creatures and should be flagged for open world PVP. I can make the same judgement that I did in Skyrim that all creatures with golden skin must die and should be flagged for PVP. And those Bosmer are nothing but filthy cannibals, and they party with stinky orcs, they all need to be put on PVP lists for not being civilized races. And one less mangy cat in this world makes it a better placed. Why not because it all fits the lore! Of course this means everyone that anyone played as a vampire or werewolve or a Altmer or anything that someone does not like that wants only to play PVE does not get to play. That argument is just as silly as calling PVE criminals nasty creatures that deserve punishment by PVE. Of course if people want to kill each other for those stupid reasons, let them do so only if the one being killed has agreed to it in the name of fun.
Yes somehow they managed to produce two decades of killing and stealing and creatures of the night in PVE justice systems that many players found fun without finding ways to exploit (which BTW was much easier to do just using the game console codes) ? Your logic is increasingly flawed here. They have those two decades of lore to choose from for how to implement an entirely PVE criminal justice system, and many players have been complaining about its absence from ESO and wanting to play it. They are fine letting you optin to play as a PVP guard chasing PVP criminals, as long as there is also an optin to have PVE guards chasing PVE criminals (and for the last time, paying for that stolen sweet roll to avoid the PVP guards is not an optin system, it is a forced choice). The PVE guards did just fine enforcing PVE consequences in the PVE games, they most surely can do that here even better because the game gets weekly updates. If players start putting buckets on guards heads so they can get away with stealing, the devs can either applaud them for their creativeness because it harms nobody elses gameplay, or they can add AI so the guards remove their bucket heads.
Not to mention that one can circle your very argument to say that we should not have PVP guards because players will exploit the guard system, and PVE players need protection from them. Griefers exist on both PVE and PVP sides of gameplay, the difference is that PVE griefers cannot mechanically affect my gameplay they can only be annoying, whereas the entire design of PVP means PVP griefers can mechanically affect my gameplay. Griefing is not the sole reason that players do not want to play PVP, it can be as simple reason as they simply do not want to fight other players, and you are not the moral authority that gets to decide they are wrong.Edited by yarnevk on July 29, 2014 1:30PM1 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
To rabid lolopenworldpvp lovers like you seem to be then I expect they do have to allow PVPers to be able to grief others to rank as 'good'.Tannakaobi wrote: »ALL the 'good' mmo's have PVP!.
I have never knowingly griefed anyone in my life, it's just not in my nature. If someone is roaming around in a PVP realm/zone as far as I am concerned they want a fight. I'll take the kill and move on or die trying.
One of the main things used against PVP players is ganking. I don't consider it PVP and here's why. In all my time playing mmo's gankers have always been as far away from real PVP as possible, meaning that meeting a player their own level is rare. Around Booty Bay was a hot spot for Horde gankers in WoW. I had one Druid constantly ganking me once over a few days, I eventually thought enough is enough and took my PVP level capped paladin out to meet him. He ran like the wind and hid in stealth. Eventually I killed him and even got a round of applause, but it wasted an hour of my time. He went back to ganking in the same spot.
It's a separate issue, one that I agree could do with some help, PVP is fun but unfortunatly it can be used as a tool by griefers. The same can be said about need/greed options, the same can be said about treasure chests.
One thing that is very clear in ESO is that they don't want people to be griefing others. What in the world draws people to the conclusion that this will be possible.
Zenimax have categorically said that it won't be open world, it won't be forced on players and it will be a choice. In fact that is the only info we do have...
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Zadian✭✭✭This implies that all the containers inside buildings and maybe even in towns will no longer be lootable for players that opt out of justice system.
No, Zenimax could add mats that can be taken without stealing. Anyway if someone doesn't want to participate in the justice system it doesn't matter if there are lootable things that can be stolen or if there are simply no lootable items at all.0 -
Zubba✭✭✭Why is this such a hot topic anyway?Add PvP loot drops for some risk/reward in this game.
Captain Morgan Society
Zub
How'd ya feel like scraping the barncles off me rudder.. Matey..0 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why is this such a hot topic anyway?
For the most part because nobody has seen it working yet , so people usually turn it to their side talking about how it will porbably be working and how it will be good or bad..."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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Why would we assume that would change? Because if it wasn't intended to change, they would have released an other solo game and not a "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game"?
MMOS are not PVP games stop equating the two. Interaction does not mean fighting, in most MMOS PVP is zoned and only opt-in and the majority of the game is PVE cooperative play, giving features to players so that they only have to play with people they want. That is why there is grouping filters, ignore filters, spam filters, guild filters, and instances that take all of that in to account All the PVE players are asking for is not to have to play with the likes of you, it is not going to affect your PVP experience one bit if they do not because they will quit the game before they have to anyways. They are not saying get rid of PVP for you, they are saying get rid of PVP in thier PVE instances. They want to play crime only with PVE consequences and have it affect only their game, just like every quest in the game only affects their game. It does not affect your game for them to make that choice. It would only affect your game if they crusaded to remove the PVP entirely, which nobody is doing because we are tolerant to understand why you want to play PVP, unlike your lack of tolerance for people who only want to play PVE.
Of course the version will be tested on PTS by the griefers, based on past experience they are not going to report the issues so that they can be abused on live because that gives them months of enjoyment before they finally get caught by the admins and fixed by the coders.
I never said "this is an MMO so it's PVP", I said "this is an MMO so it's not solo play".
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]Edited by ZOS_MattC on July 29, 2014 2:09PM1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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So either now high level players are barred from looting in low level towns, or we get to 1 hit KO the capped L25 player guard.
VR players can only enfore justice in VR areas, players with level 1-25 can only enforce justice in1-25 areas and same for 25-50 areas?
Oops, did I just solve the issue with an extremely easy system?
Yeah, sounds solved
Nobody is forcing the L25 player guard to engage the high level player, it's his decision
, he opted in by joining the guards guild, remember?
It's very easy to implement a system that messages online guards that are about the same level as the thief that help is needed in X town to catch a thief that is doing a rampage (I've seen this in other games for player killers). You can also have Guard Guilds that recruit guards who help each-other.
Solved again.
Edited by TehMagnus on July 29, 2014 1:48PM1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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If all this is so easy to implement then so will making a pve option for the justice system.
So either now high level players are barred from looting in low level towns, or we get to 1 hit KO the capped L25 player guard.
VR players can only enfore justice in VR areas, players with level 1-25 can only enforce justice in1-25 areas and same for 25-50 areas?
Oops, did I just solve the issue with an extremely easy system?
Yeah, sounds solved
Moreover, It's very easy to implement a system...
More stuff solved! ^_^
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TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
If all this is so easy to implement then so will making a pve option for the justice system.
So either now high level players are barred from looting in low level towns, or we get to 1 hit KO the capped L25 player guard.
VR players can only enfore justice in VR areas, players with level 1-25 can only enforce justice in1-25 areas and same for 25-50 areas?
Oops, did I just solve the issue with an extremely easy system?
Yeah, sounds solved
Moreover, It's very easy to implement a system...
More stuff solved! ^_^
Nope, making a PVE options for justice system => players abusing exploits to get away from NPCs and as Sage said "no matter what we do, you will allways find a way". Seems like no solving that one, at least not on dev side.
Too bad I guess
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
There will be far more abuse from the pvp players.
If all this is so easy to implement then so will making a pve option for the justice system.
So either now high level players are barred from looting in low level towns, or we get to 1 hit KO the capped L25 player guard.
VR players can only enfore justice in VR areas, players with level 1-25 can only enforce justice in1-25 areas and same for 25-50 areas?
Oops, did I just solve the issue with an extremely easy system?
Yeah, sounds solved
Moreover, It's very easy to implement a system...
More stuff solved! ^_^
Nope, making a PVE options for justice system => players abusing exploits to get away from NPCs and as Sage said "no matter what we do, you will allways find a way". Seems like no solving that one, at least not on dev side.
Too bad I guess
So making a pve option at least keeps the abusers away from the rest of us.
Being against an option for pve isn't about fearing a pve player will "abuse the system". It's about fearing there won't be enough pvp players because we know most people don't want to pvp in the open world.
We are asking for a pve option, and if the devs are listening, they'll find a way to make it happen.
If not, they won't be giving us what we want and this entire system will go to waste and also cause loads of exploit issues and headaches for ZOS.
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Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭
If all this is so easy to implement then so will making a pve option for the justice system.
So either now high level players are barred from looting in low level towns, or we get to 1 hit KO the capped L25 player guard.
VR players can only enfore justice in VR areas, players with level 1-25 can only enforce justice in1-25 areas and same for 25-50 areas?
Oops, did I just solve the issue with an extremely easy system?
Yeah, sounds solved
Moreover, It's very easy to implement a system...
More stuff solved! ^_^
So fair is fair, we will turn all the PVE game into PVP options. Quest's, Dungeons, time trials? No pvpers are not asking for that are they.
Why can't you just be happy that PVP players will have something that does not drag PVE players into it unless they do so choose?
It boggles the mind! ESO is currently 95% PVE. ALL the added content has been PVE so far, suddenly, after months they decide to add a 'little' amount of PVP and the PVE players are raging without knowing anything about it.
Honestly, it's SELFISH!1
