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Justice system sugestion (Addition) - Killing Other players in PVE.
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »@nerevarine1138 still waiting on the quote you claim to have stating ZOS has now made essential NPCs like bankers non-attackable and non-reactive, to counter the quote they made here where they stated bankers etc will be attackable/reactive -ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »The current plan is that important NPCs (quest NPCs, bankers, stablemasters, merchants) will not be killable when the Justice System goes live. However, they will be attackable, react accordingly, and you will incur bounty for doing so.
And that interferes with other players... how?
If I attack a banker but can't kill them, that doesn't do anything to the players at the bank.
Currently if the banker moves it knocks the player out of the banking window. Still waiting on that quote (again, asking for the third time).
1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »@nerevarine1138 still waiting on the quote you claim to have stating ZOS has now made essential NPCs like bankers non-attackable and non-reactive, to counter the quote they made here where they stated bankers etc will be attackable/reactive -ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »The current plan is that important NPCs (quest NPCs, bankers, stablemasters, merchants) will not be killable when the Justice System goes live. However, they will be attackable, react accordingly, and you will incur bounty for doing so.
And that interferes with other players... how?
If I attack a banker but can't kill them, that doesn't do anything to the players at the bank.
Currently if the banker moves it knocks the player out of the banking window. Still waiting on that quote (again, asking for the third time).
Who said anything about the banker moving? And I never offered a quote. I said that ZO has been extremely clear on essential NPCs not being killable, ergo not being something that can interfere with players who don't want to participate in the justice system.
And all that said, you've reminded me why I stopped responding to your circular logic. All other posters are welcome to participate in lively debate.----
Murray?2 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Why do PVE players play MMO's? By and large mmo's are cack. Graphics are poor, gameplay is poor. Reaction timings are poor. When I say poor, I mean in direct comparison to games that are not mmo's. If you are not going to hack chunks out of each other then what is the point?
I understand raids, and dungeons, but in ESO that's like, what? 5% of the game...
Yet it's the PVE players that get in a huff about every single little thing, even things that have been categorically denied.
Say no to arena's! We don't want arena's because even though we wouldn't play them we don't want them.
Say no to battlegrounds because even though we wouldn't get involved we don't want them.
Say no to open world PVP, even if it's optional because even though we wouldn't bother we don't want them.
When was the last time you heard a PVP player say, 'say no to dungeons or raids we don't want them'?
If you even make a little sound about ESO being very quest orientated you get a barrage of PVE players stating things like, it's TES, it's all about quests. Or if you don't like it move on...
The funny thing is, by and large it's the PVE players that wanted Skyrim Online. Which is funny because in Skyrim you can literally attack anyone. Why would that change if it was online. It would be open world PVP all the way!
You reap what you sow and had all the PVE players not moaned and moaned about every form of PVP such as arena's, battlegrounds, open world then your precious justice system may not be PVP.
Although I highly doubt it. I mean it's obvious really, of course the justice system was going to be PVP it's an Elder Scrolls game. Although at the moment it's nothing like any other Tes game. The justice system is a big step towards making it more like one but what do you get? That's right, PVE players moaning about it. They don't even know what it is yet, but they still moan about it.
Sheesh!
Edited by Tannakaobi on July 29, 2014 1:41AM4 -
xChewtoyx✭✭✭I think they will just make it so the banker doesn't react but the guards next to him/her do if the banker is attacked. I know they said the banker will react but that would seem troublesome.0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »@nerevarine1138 still waiting on the quote you claim to have stating ZOS has now made essential NPCs like bankers non-attackable and non-reactive, to counter the quote they made here where they stated bankers etc will be attackable/reactive -ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »The current plan is that important NPCs (quest NPCs, bankers, stablemasters, merchants) will not be killable when the Justice System goes live. However, they will be attackable, react accordingly, and you will incur bounty for doing so.
And that interferes with other players... how?
If I attack a banker but can't kill them, that doesn't do anything to the players at the bank.
Currently if the banker moves it knocks the player out of the banking window. Still waiting on that quote (again, asking for the third time).
Who said anything about the banker moving? And I never offered a quote. I said that ZO has been extremely clear on essential NPCs not being killable, ergo not being something that can interfere with players who don't want to participate in the justice system.
And all that said, you've reminded me why I stopped responding to your circular logic. All other posters are welcome to participate in lively debate.
Right, so now you're saying important NPCs cannot be killed, when before you said they couldn't be targeted or attacked in response to me stating they could, as confirmed by ZOS. So you have no new information at all. Gotcha. Thanks for dragging this out for two whole pages before admitting this.
I also will ignore you from here on out - the only circular arguing and obstructive posting is coming from your end.2 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This thread shows why we need to be able to choose who we play with, rather than have playing with some people forced upon us.3 -
grimjim398✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »@nerevarine1138 still waiting on the quote you claim to have stating ZOS has now made essential NPCs like bankers non-attackable and non-reactive, to counter the quote they made here where they stated bankers etc will be attackable/reactive -ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »The current plan is that important NPCs (quest NPCs, bankers, stablemasters, merchants) will not be killable when the Justice System goes live. However, they will be attackable, react accordingly, and you will incur bounty for doing so.
And that interferes with other players... how?
If I attack a banker but can't kill them, that doesn't do anything to the players at the bank.
Currently if the banker moves it knocks the player out of the banking window. Still waiting on that quote (again, asking for the third time).
Who said anything about the banker moving? And I never offered a quote. I said that ZO has been extremely clear on essential NPCs not being killable, ergo not being something that can interfere with players who don't want to participate in the justice system.
And all that said, you've reminded me why I stopped responding to your circular logic. All other posters are welcome to participate in lively debate.
Right, so now you're saying important NPCs cannot be killed, when before you said they couldn't be targeted or attacked in response to me stating they could, as confirmed by ZOS. So you have no new information at all. Gotcha. Thanks for dragging this out for two whole pages before admitting this.
I also will ignore you from here on out - the only circular arguing and obstructive posting is coming from your end.
Actually both of you are being pretty obnoxious and not at all helpful to the discussion. It's not a matter of either one of you being right.3 -
Halorin✭✭✭The bankers are a side distraction to the real complaint people have here. They want to be criminals without any real consequences from other players. So it's a bit backwards to try and pose people attacking bankers as a reason to not have PVP in the justice system, when all of the complaints come from people who want to play criminals who would presumably not attack bankers themselves.
It's also a long odds assumption that Zenimax Online would allow such a griefing mechanic to exist anyway. As someone said before, it probably would make them invulnerable and nearby guards would attack, or (ideally) those players would become KOS immediately by other players where they'd get immediately melted by the players around, allowing for the community to police itself.2 -
xChewtoyx✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Why do PVE players play MMO's? By and large mmo's are cack. Graphics are poor, gameplay is poor. Reaction timings are poor. When I say poor, I mean in direct comparison to games that are not mmo's. If you are not going to hack chunks out of each other then what is the point?
I understand raids, and dungeons, but in ESO that's like, what? 5% of the game...
Yet it's the PVE players that get in a huff about every single little thing, even things that have been categorically denied.
Say no to arena's! We don't want arena's because even though we wouldn't play them we don't want them.
Say no to battlegrounds because even though we wouldn't get involved we don't want them.
Say no to open world PVP, even if it's optional because even though we wouldn't bother we don't want them.
When was the last time you heard a PVP player say, 'say no to dungeons or raids we don't want them'?
If you even make a little sound about ESO being very quest orientated you get a barrage of PVE players stating things like, it's TES, it's all about quests. Or if you don't like it move on...
The funny thing is, by and large it's the PVE players that wanted Skyrim Online. Which is funny because in Skyrim you can literally attack anyone. Why would that change if it was online. It would be open world PVP all the way!
You reap what you sow and had all the PVE players not moaned and moaned about every form of PVP such as arena's, battlegrounds, open world then your precious justice system may not be PVP.
Although I highly doubt it. I mean it's obvious really, of course the justice system was going to be PVP it's an Elder Scrolls game. Although at the moment it's nothing like any other Tes game. The justice system is a big step towards making it more like one but what do you get? That's right, PVE players moaning about it. They don't even know what it is yet, but they still moan about it.
Sheesh!
You seem to view us all to be either black or white when in reality we are all different shades of grey.
There is nothing wrong with a good healthy discussion on how things might work
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Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Why do PVE players play MMO's? By and large mmo's are cack. Graphics are poor, gameplay is poor. Reaction timings are poor. When I say poor, I mean in direct comparison to games that are not mmo's. If you are not going to hack chunks out of each other then what is the point?
I understand raids, and dungeons, but in ESO that's like, what? 5% of the game...
Yet it's the PVE players that get in a huff about every single little thing, even things that have been categorically denied.
Say no to arena's! We don't want arena's because even though we wouldn't play them we don't want them.
Say no to battlegrounds because even though we wouldn't get involved we don't want them.
Say no to open world PVP, even if it's optional because even though we wouldn't bother we don't want them.
When was the last time you heard a PVP player say, 'say no to dungeons or raids we don't want them'?
If you even make a little sound about ESO being very quest orientated you get a barrage of PVE players stating things like, it's TES, it's all about quests. Or if you don't like it move on...
The funny thing is, by and large it's the PVE players that wanted Skyrim Online. Which is funny because in Skyrim you can literally attack anyone. Why would that change if it was online. It would be open world PVP all the way!
You reap what you sow and had all the PVE players not moaned and moaned about every form of PVP such as arena's, battlegrounds, open world then your precious justice system may not be PVP.
Although I highly doubt it. I mean it's obvious really, of course the justice system was going to be PVP it's an Elder Scrolls game. Although at the moment it's nothing like any other Tes game. The justice system is a big step towards making it more like one but what do you get? That's right, PVE players moaning about it. They don't even know what it is yet, but they still moan about it.
Sheesh!
You seem to view us all to be either black or white when in reality we are all different shades of grey.
There is nothing wrong with a good healthy discussion on how things might work
But that's the thing, it's not a healthy discussion. It's PVE players creating problems that don't exist yet, often going against the little that has been said and PVP players defending it with reasons that don't exist yet.
Of course we are all different shades of grey. I've played mmo's for years and I didn't even realize that there was a divide between PVE players and PVP players. I never considered myself a PVP player. I enjoy PVP, but I also enjoy PVE.
Since playing ESO I have witnessed players demanding that features not be put in game. Why is this? I really don't get it. I want everything put in the game. If I don't like something then I simply won't do that thing. That's just not good enough for some people. If they don't want it then no one can have it. Just take a look at the threads about arena's or Dueling.
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Haewk✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Why do PVE players play MMO's? By and large mmo's are cack. Graphics are poor, gameplay is poor. Reaction timings are poor. When I say poor, I mean in direct comparison to games that are not mmo's. If you are not going to hack chunks out of each other then what is the point?
I understand raids, and dungeons, but in ESO that's like, what? 5% of the game...
Yet it's the PVE players that get in a huff about every single little thing, even things that have been categorically denied.
Say no to arena's! We don't want arena's because even though we wouldn't play them we don't want them.
Say no to battlegrounds because even though we wouldn't get involved we don't want them.
Say no to open world PVP, even if it's optional because even though we wouldn't bother we don't want them.
When was the last time you heard a PVP player say, 'say no to dungeons or raids we don't want them'?
If you even make a little sound about ESO being very quest orientated you get a barrage of PVE players stating things like, it's TES, it's all about quests. Or if you don't like it move on...
The funny thing is, by and large it's the PVE players that wanted Skyrim Online. Which is funny because in Skyrim you can literally attack anyone. Why would that change if it was online. It would be open world PVP all the way!
You reap what you sow and had all the PVE players not moaned and moaned about every form of PVP such as arena's, battlegrounds, open world then your precious justice system may not be PVP.
Although I highly doubt it. I mean it's obvious really, of course the justice system was going to be PVP it's an Elder Scrolls game. Although at the moment it's nothing like any other Tes game. The justice system is a big step towards making it more like one but what do you get? That's right, PVE players moaning about it. They don't even know what it is yet, but they still moan about it.
Sheesh!
TES was single player and therefore PvE, why do you assume that would change? Your logic is faulty. Other players are not NPCs, they are not just another part of the game, they are players, they are something new that did not exist in the old games.
I complain because I have played other MMOs. I know the balance wars that are continuously being waged to balance for PvP and PvE. PvP related changes frustrates PvE players, PvE related changes frustrates PvP players.
I complain about the justice system because I have experienced games and systems like it and to a primarily PvE player it adds nothing to their game play unless the rewards are attractive enough and then it will really annoy me as it is now trying to force me into it.2 -
themizario✭✭✭I feel like arenas are a WOW thing and don't have a place in ESO. Next people will be asking for flying mounts.1
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Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭themizario wrote: »I feel like arenas are a WOW thing and don't have a place in ESO. Next people will be asking for flying mounts.
Ic , ok , so i saw this dragon ..."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
Halorin✭✭✭TES was single player and therefore PvE, why do you assume that would change? Your logic is faulty. Other players are not NPCs, they are not just another part of the game, they are players, they are something new that did not exist in the old games.
I complain because I have played other MMOs. I know the balance wars that are continuously being waged to balance for PvP and PvE. PvP related changes frustrates PvE players, PvE related changes frustrates PvP players.
I complain about the justice system because I have experienced games and systems like it and to a primarily PvE player it adds nothing to their game play unless the rewards are attractive enough and then it will really annoy me as it is now trying to force me into it.
Because The Elder Scrolls Online is a massively multiplayer online RPG with a PVP implementation the size of a game map from the entirety of a previous game. Two key gameplay additions, the Imperial City and the justice system, have been clearly said to contain both PVP and PVE elements.
With all this said, the real question is 'Why do you think it would stay the same?'
1 -
yarnevk✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
CC breaks, CC breaks and CC breaks. Oh, and committing crimes before immediately LoS-ing the guard, or a thousand other ways of exploiting predictable NPC behavior. The fact is that, just like the single-player games, once players figure out the basic mechanics of the NPC guards, they will not get caught if they don't want to be caught.
So what? As a PVE criminal I did not harm any players gameplay so what if I figure out to outrun the guards, if they make them too easy they will get adjusted to be too hard and vice versa. It is not relevant to anyones gameplay than my own that I ran away from a guard with a stolen sweet roll. I am still going to have a bounty that means I can only use my fence outside of town, and I still have to sneak in to town every time I go into it. Exactly how are you harmed by me being a PVE criminal that you feel you need to harm my gameplay by forcing me to PVP with you?
You seem to be under the false impression that criminals will be able to kill and steal from other players and as a consquence must be subject to PVP guards to keep that under the control. The is purely PVE criminality, and the punishments should stay entirely PVE. And of course if there is a player choice to have PVP consequences, then that will enable them to add PVP criminality for the open world PVP that PVPers want, you will be able to kill/steal other players. So you should be for a PVP/PVE criminal choice system, not against .
Edited by yarnevk on July 29, 2014 2:02AM1 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Why do PVE players play MMO's? By and large mmo's are cack. Graphics are poor, gameplay is poor. Reaction timings are poor. When I say poor, I mean in direct comparison to games that are not mmo's. If you are not going to hack chunks out of each other then what is the point?
I understand raids, and dungeons, but in ESO that's like, what? 5% of the game...
Yet it's the PVE players that get in a huff about every single little thing, even things that have been categorically denied.
Say no to arena's! We don't want arena's because even though we wouldn't play them we don't want them.
Say no to battlegrounds because even though we wouldn't get involved we don't want them.
Say no to open world PVP, even if it's optional because even though we wouldn't bother we don't want them.
When was the last time you heard a PVP player say, 'say no to dungeons or raids we don't want them'?
If you even make a little sound about ESO being very quest orientated you get a barrage of PVE players stating things like, it's TES, it's all about quests. Or if you don't like it move on...
The funny thing is, by and large it's the PVE players that wanted Skyrim Online. Which is funny because in Skyrim you can literally attack anyone. Why would that change if it was online. It would be open world PVP all the way!
You reap what you sow and had all the PVE players not moaned and moaned about every form of PVP such as arena's, battlegrounds, open world then your precious justice system may not be PVP.
Although I highly doubt it. I mean it's obvious really, of course the justice system was going to be PVP it's an Elder Scrolls game. Although at the moment it's nothing like any other Tes game. The justice system is a big step towards making it more like one but what do you get? That's right, PVE players moaning about it. They don't even know what it is yet, but they still moan about it.
Sheesh!
TES was single player and therefore PvE, why do you assume that would change? Your logic is faulty. Other players are not NPCs, they are not just another part of the game, they are players, they are something new that did not exist in the old games.
In ALL Tes games you as a player can attack ANYONE. By categorizing players into brackets, some you can attack some you can't the game has changed. I can see why they would do this. But to remove the feature altogether... crazy.I complain because I have played other MMOs. I know the balance wars that are continuously being waged to balance for PvP and PvE. PvP related changes frustrates PvE players, PvE related changes frustrates PvP players.
It's the same old argument with no foundation, the games that have PVP and are constantly being balanced are nearly always better and more successful. Just look at the top 5 selling mmo's.I complain about the justice system because I have experienced games and systems like it and to a primarily PvE player it adds nothing to their game play unless the rewards are attractive enough and then it will really annoy me as it is now trying to force me into it.
Like I said, you as a PVE player are complaining about a feature that is not for you. Therefore you want it changed. It doesn't matter that there is already 95% of the game designed for PVE. That's not enough, you want to take away the small amount that is for PVP players.
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xChewtoyx✭✭✭themizario wrote: »I feel like arenas are a WOW thing and don't have a place in ESO. Next people will be asking for flying mounts.
Arena Quake would disagree with you
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »you want to take away the small amount that is for PVP players.
It's actually quite a huge addition to the game, and should not be exclusionary, as stealing and killing in Elder Scrolls games has always been enjoyable for the TES fans.
This can easily be made into a pve or pvp option, rather than making it forced pvp.2 -
yarnevk✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »See, those of us who have actually played the single-player series still play those games. We don't need to duplicate that experience in an MMO, because we're looking for a multiplayer experience. If I want single-player fun, I've already poured thousands of hours of my life in to Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. I can pour a few more in.
I play with other players everytime I take down a boss mob with help. Multiplayer does not mean PVP, in the majority of MMO game play it means cooperative play. I only want to play with players that do not want to fight me. If I want to form a thieving player guild that bands together to rob towns blind and run circles around the guards, then I am doing cooperative play. Nobody outside my group even knows that I robbed the town blind anymore than they know that I just decided to kill the necromancers victim just because I am racist against lizards, all of these player choices are instanced. Of course they are going to have to instance or protect critical NPCs so that it does not impact others gameplay at all, that is not impossible because they already do this with quest NPCs.
But the game being multiplayer is not a requirement for forcing PVP consequences onto PVE gameplay.
Edited by yarnevk on July 29, 2014 2:15AM1 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭themizario wrote: »I feel like arenas are a WOW thing and don't have a place in ESO. Next people will be asking for flying mounts.
You only show your ignorance then. The very first Tes game was even named arena, but Oblivion also had an arena. Correct me if I'm wrong but both were a long time before WoW!3 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tannakaobi wrote: »themizario wrote: »I feel like arenas are a WOW thing and don't have a place in ESO. Next people will be asking for flying mounts.
You only show your ignorance then. The very first Tes game was even named arena, but Oblivion also had an arena. Correct me if I'm wrong but both were a long time before WoW!
While i dont have anything against an arena in conception.
I have a lot against its results in the game when it comes to the balancing , which is already a mess in ESO and would only get worse.
I do hope they add it right with a division in balance and items from the rest of the game , otherwise they will be doing a huge mistake , one that even the WoW devs admit they did."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
indytims_ESO✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Why do PVE players play MMO's? By and large mmo's are cack. Graphics are poor, gameplay is poor. Reaction timings are poor. When I say poor, I mean in direct comparison to games that are not mmo's. If you are not going to hack chunks out of each other then what is the point?
(snip long post about whining PVErs)...
You obviously see things differently than other people, and while that's cool, that doesn't make your opinion 'right', or any 'better' than anyone else's.
The discussion here has been 'healthy' in some ways, and less so in others. You typically get both ends of the spectrum when dealing with something that people are passionate about, and in every MMO I've played over the past 15-16 years, PVP/PVE thoughts cause some of the most heated passion I've seen.
You simply have folks who love the idea of killing other people's characters.
You also have folks who want nothing to do with it.
We could list page after page of reasons for each side to support their preferences, and in the end - you're not going to change minds, or opinions, and even if you did, it would be a miniscule amount.
Suffice to say, with the 'vague' Justice system announcement, folks from both sides are here to voice their concerns, their preferences, their ideas. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and in fact Zeni has encouraged it. They claim they read the forums, even if they don't jump in the threads themselves.
As such, folks on both sides of the aisle want to make sure they are heard. If PVPers don't say anything, but PVErs do - Zeni is likely to have that in mind when they work on the content. Do our voices have any effect on the game? That's debatable, and how much effect our voices have is debatable as well, but when Zeni says, "We're watching. We're reading. We're listening", that's more than enough incentive for folks to voice their opinions on subjects they are passionate about.
There's 'moaning' on both sides. Maybe you're just PVP-centered, so you ignore the PVP whiners - but they are out there aplenty. Some of the best quotes from PVPers have been comments such as, 'If I can't kill other players outside Cyrodil, there is no point to the system'. 'ESO should be open-world PVP anyway'. So on and so forth. If you've read this thread and the other related threads, you'd know this already. PVErs aren't the only ones 'moaning'.
Ultimately, ESO is a PVE-centered game. Not everyone will go to Cyrodil, but -everyone- starts the game in PVE land. And a lot of folks don't want to see that changed.
Eventually, Zeni will share more details about the Justice system, and then the -real- complaining will begin.
5 -
yarnevk✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Who said anything about the banker moving? And I never offered a quote. I said that ZO has been extremely clear on essential NPCs not being killable, ergo not being something that can interfere with players who don't want to participate in the justice system.
.
You are the one ignoring that bankers will be attackable, and their cowering movement will break the window. Of course this is absolutely stupid that they plan to leave it like this (confirmed by ZOS), but they will have to fix it after the ragefast over griefers preventing people from banking. That is not an excuse for having PVP guards, that is a job for the admins to stop it until the coders fix that stupid NPC behavior - critical NPCs should not react to criminals at all if they are not instanced. Yes of course they did cower or die in single player TES, but the merchant cowering did not impact others gameplay like it will in multiplayer, so obviously they will have to instance or protect them because that is open invitation for the trolls otherwise.Edited by yarnevk on July 29, 2014 2:32AM1 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »you want to take away the small amount that is for PVP players.
It's actually quite a huge addition to the game, and should not be exclusionary, as stealing and killing in Elder Scrolls games has always been enjoyable for the TES fans.
This can easily be made into a pve or pvp option, rather than making it forced pvp.
We just don't know. People make the assumption that they will not be able to be involved in the justice system if they don't want to PVP. We just do not know and based on what I have seen so far I have my doubts that will be the case.indytims_ESO wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Why do PVE players play MMO's? By and large mmo's are cack. Graphics are poor, gameplay is poor. Reaction timings are poor. When I say poor, I mean in direct comparison to games that are not mmo's. If you are not going to hack chunks out of each other then what is the point?
(snip long post about whining PVErs)...
There's 'moaning' on both sides. Maybe you're just PVP-centered, so you ignore the PVP whiners - but they are out there aplenty. Some of the best quotes from PVPers have been comments such as, 'If I can't kill other players outside Cyrodil, there is no point to the system'. 'ESO should be open-world PVP anyway'. So on and so forth. If you've read this thread and the other related threads, you'd know this already. PVErs aren't the only ones 'moaning'.
There is truth in that, it just holds no credibility at all and they are few and far between, much less so to the say no to PVP people.Ultimately, ESO is a PVE-centered game. Not everyone will go to Cyrodil, but -everyone- starts the game in PVE land. And a lot of folks don't want to see that changed.
That's not an option. It it were you would find people just PVP! It's not really PVE-centered, pretty much all the current end game is PVP. Any why don't they want to see it changed? Why would it matter to them if people could go straight to PVP and not bother questing?Eventually, Zeni will share more details about the Justice system, and then the -real- complaining will begin.
Aye! Sad, but true. Lets hope they get it bang on for everyone. With the exception of griefers which there are plenty both in PVP and in PVE!
Edited by Tannakaobi on July 29, 2014 2:26AM0 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »themizario wrote: »I feel like arenas are a WOW thing and don't have a place in ESO. Next people will be asking for flying mounts.
You only show your ignorance then. The very first Tes game was even named arena, but Oblivion also had an arena. Correct me if I'm wrong but both were a long time before WoW!
While i dont have anything against an arena in conception.
I have a lot against its results in the game when it comes to the balancing , which is already a mess in ESO and would only get worse.
I do hope they add it right with a division in balance and items from the rest of the game , otherwise they will be doing a huge mistake , one that even the WoW devs admit they did.
I don't really disagree if I'm honest. But that's not to say close the door on it. I would be more interested in an PVE arena with small element s of PVP myself.
But when people talk about arena's breaking lore and comparing it with flying mounts, well...
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Halorin✭✭✭I do think it's a fair point brought up about TES tradition. The games have been open world across the board. Whole quest lines could be lost to players for killing NPCs that were integral to their progression. Factions would think highly or lowly of you based on your actions.
So it's pretty hypocritical for someone to be like, 'TES has this long history of (x)' but then get real selective about what parts of the franchise's history they want to embrace.
TESO is unchartered territory for the franchise, so if you want to play the history card, I think ALL of it should be considered.
EDIT: Mind you, I would not want a completely open PVP environment, but a bounty system with a PVP threshold is the best way to embrace the concept of player freedom, in my opinion.Edited by Halorin on July 29, 2014 2:43AM1 -
indytims_ESO✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »That's not an option. It it were you would find people just PVP! It's not really PVE-centered, pretty much all the current end game is PVP. Any why don't they want to see it changed? Why would it matter to them if people could go straight to PVP and not bother questing?
I think you're still not really looking at ESO accurately.
-EVERYONE- has to PVE - at the bare minimum to level 10. I suppose someone -could- go to Cyrodil at 10 and work their way up leveling there without doing PVE at all... though I'd wager that is pretty tough, and not very likely.
NO ONE EVER has to PVP. And no, PVP isn't the 'only' end-game in ESO. There are PVE options for end-game.
ESO is most certainly PVE-centric. PVP is an 'added zone' that you are free to go to after level 10. Of course, I've been told that there's no point in going there until late VR levels. I did spend a little time there in my early 40's, and I can say that as PVP is designed now, those people were mostly right.
The point of a lot of the 'moaners' as you call them is that they want to keep things this way. If they don't want to ever have to PVP, they shouldn't have to. That's the way the game was -designed- from the beginning. PVP moaners rguing that the game's basic design should be changed is pretty silly, especially just 3.5 months after launch.
If you want PVP from the start, or open-world PVP - there are other games like that available, and I suggest you go check them out. ESO is not one of those.
Personally, I don't care if people go 'straight up' to PVP or not - as long as -I- am not forced to. This is not a PVP-centric game. Forcing PVE players into a PVP game is just a recipe for disaster.Tannakaobi wrote: »Aye! Sad, but true. Lets hope they get it bang on for everyone. With the exception of griefers which there are plenty both in PVP and in PVE!
Griefers will exist in some form or fashion until the end of time. There's just that element in humanity that derives pleasure from the misery of others.Edited by indytims_ESO on July 29, 2014 3:00AM3 -
Haewk✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »Tannakaobi wrote: »Why do PVE players play MMO's? By and large mmo's are cack. Graphics are poor, gameplay is poor. Reaction timings are poor. When I say poor, I mean in direct comparison to games that are not mmo's. If you are not going to hack chunks out of each other then what is the point?
I understand raids, and dungeons, but in ESO that's like, what? 5% of the game...
Yet it's the PVE players that get in a huff about every single little thing, even things that have been categorically denied.
Say no to arena's! We don't want arena's because even though we wouldn't play them we don't want them.
Say no to battlegrounds because even though we wouldn't get involved we don't want them.
Say no to open world PVP, even if it's optional because even though we wouldn't bother we don't want them.
When was the last time you heard a PVP player say, 'say no to dungeons or raids we don't want them'?
If you even make a little sound about ESO being very quest orientated you get a barrage of PVE players stating things like, it's TES, it's all about quests. Or if you don't like it move on...
The funny thing is, by and large it's the PVE players that wanted Skyrim Online. Which is funny because in Skyrim you can literally attack anyone. Why would that change if it was online. It would be open world PVP all the way!
You reap what you sow and had all the PVE players not moaned and moaned about every form of PVP such as arena's, battlegrounds, open world then your precious justice system may not be PVP.
Although I highly doubt it. I mean it's obvious really, of course the justice system was going to be PVP it's an Elder Scrolls game. Although at the moment it's nothing like any other Tes game. The justice system is a big step towards making it more like one but what do you get? That's right, PVE players moaning about it. They don't even know what it is yet, but they still moan about it.
Sheesh!
TES was single player and therefore PvE, why do you assume that would change? Your logic is faulty. Other players are not NPCs, they are not just another part of the game, they are players, they are something new that did not exist in the old games.
In ALL Tes games you as a player can attack ANYONE. By categorizing players into brackets, some you can attack some you can't the game has changed. I can see why they would do this. But to remove the feature altogether... crazy.
This is rubbish. You cannot attack other players in TES games BECAUSE THERE ARE NO OTHER PLAYERS. How can you attack what is not there?I complain because I have played other MMOs. I know the balance wars that are continuously being waged to balance for PvP and PvE. PvP related changes frustrates PvE players, PvE related changes frustrates PvP players.
It's the same old argument with no foundation, the games that have PVP and are constantly being balanced are nearly always better and more successful. Just look at the top 5 selling mmo's.
I am talking about the frustration of PvE balance disrupted by PvP balancing, how does that have no foundation? Just go read the forums of any game with both. And go and look at the list of failed games that had PvP and PvE, hardly a recipe for success.I complain about the justice system because I have experienced games and systems like it and to a primarily PvE player it adds nothing to their game play unless the rewards are attractive enough and then it will really annoy me as it is now trying to force me into it.
Like I said, you as a PVE player are complaining about a feature that is not for you. Therefore you want it changed. It doesn't matter that there is already 95% of the game designed for PVE. That's not enough, you want to take away the small amount that is for PVP players.
You have your PvP zone and I don't want to take it away. You are getting a PvP city, enjoy. I think the justice system is stupid. I thought it was stupid in TES games. I don't understand how it adds entertainment. I don't see how it will not impact PvE players when it will be going on around us.
Why are you so eager to bring your PvP into the PvE zones? Why? Explain to me how you will use the Justice System to make it fun. Will you be a guard? Will you get a really high bounty? What will be the game play? What is the vision?4
