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Justice system sugestion (Addition) - Killing Other players in PVE.
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And deny them the roleplaying of being a criminal? Despite the popular standard RPG fantasy triad of fighter, mage, rogue you say they can only play a fighter or mage if they don't want to get involve in PVP? Especially in TES which has had popular PVE thieves and assassin guilds for decades? People want to play criminals and have the option of not having to PVP, that can be done with a login choice of which Justice system you want to play. Why would you be against letting them have that choice of being the sneaky type, there is no need to force choice them into PVP if they chose to be sneaky. Yes people also want to roleplay murderers and for the same reason the theives/assassin guilds in ESO will only be against NPC because it will victimize PC to do otherwise, your murdering sprees need to be only against those that consent to PVP. And if the thieves/assassin guilds expand to PC victims so more than guards can PVP, I am all for it as long as it is under a PVP login where everybody consents without forced choice. By having a Justice-PVP and a Justice-PVE login the system can be better for both types of players.
Why is everyone so intent on roleplaying a bad criminal? For the last time, the system already is opt-in. Don't want to be flagged with a bounty? Don't. Get. Caught.
I don't know how you think this will lead to griefing, since the flagging is entirely voluntary. What happened when you got caught stealing in one of the single-player games? You got a bounty and could get fined/attacked. Same thing in this game, except it will potentially involve a player in the area doing some of the enforcement. Why do you care whether it's a player who takes you down or an NPC?
But just to emphasize again, because no one seems to get it: griefing is not possible in this system.----
Murray?4 -
Zubba✭✭✭Perma Death, pvp loot drops. Server wide.Add PvP loot drops for some risk/reward in this game.
Captain Morgan Society
Zub
How'd ya feel like scraping the barncles off me rudder.. Matey..4 -
yarnevk✭✭✭It most absolutely is possible. It happens in every single PVP game that has PVE zones with PVP flagging. To say otherwise means you have ulterior motives of taking advantage of that flagging system. Are you in denial that mob trolling is not already happening in this game in dungeons causing people to panic attack and kill? Of course the same thing is going to happen now with guard trolling. Do you deny that people blindly loot all the containers, even with autoloot in their desperation to find a rare, and that there is not going to be player guards following them around after they come out of the bank knowing they are likely to be broke? All of those things are possible and will happen, and the game cannot be changed to stop it happening short of a PVE/PVP login.
It is not up to you to say well bad criminals/players they just need to suffer the consequences of my PVP then. People like to play PVE criminals for the very reason of it is exciting to risk getting caught. People do not want to risk PVP for their own very valid reasons even if they like to roleplay a criminal risk. It is not up to you to decide what gameplay they are forced to have, but that seems to be a common theme for players that want PVP in PVE zones. Again if you want to PVP criminals then do it only if both have logged into a Justice-PVP instance, should not be something you have an issue with.Edited by yarnevk on July 28, 2014 2:42PM2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Do you deny that people blindly loot all the containers, even with autoloot in their desperation to find a rare
This is a game mechanic exploit. You're not suposed to be runing around in AD bank spaming "E" to loot everything in order to "find a rare". You will still be able to do it but it will be slower & have to hide/ expose yourself to "Blood Hungry Mad PVPers" wrath, making the "Loot, Logout/Login, Loot" loop even less productive. We don't care about those players.Edited by TehMagnus on July 28, 2014 2:55PM3 -
cracker81✭✭✭The only way it will turn into pvp is if you get caught and cannot pay or you run from the guards. Now it be good if eso had a bandit town for you to lay low or bandit caves.3 -
xChewtoyx✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »We don't know the specifics yet, but they've been very clear about saying that you can't accidentally flag yourself. Period. No exceptions.
As for your "nightmare scenarios," neither of those work in the system as described. Guards can't stay hidden and randomly flag themselves, and unless all your criminal buddies were hanging out in a guarded area to commit crimes all at the same time, they can't magically flag themselves and become a hidden ambush.
I wasn't commenting on accidently flagging yourself I was commenting on whether or not you could assist someone who was flagged without doing so.
If as you say those "nightmare scenarios" cant happen then what information did you use to arrive at that conclusion?
I can't find anything about the flagging process. Can you be so kind as to link what you used to base your opinion on?
Here's the official quotation (emphasis mine):At QuakeCon, Paul Sage discussed the work being done on the in-development justice system, including the possibility of hunting down players who have a bounty. Only players who have chosen to participate in the activity of thievery will have a bounty on them, and be attackable, and only if you are a guard.
While certain activities may open you up to PvP outside of Cyrodiil, we are not considering world PvP.
So unless you have chosen to participate in a criminal act or flagged yourself as a guard, you will not be attackable. That's pretty black and white. Although I'm sure you'll find some kind of "loophole" in there, since you've managed to ignore every post prior to this explaining that you can't get flagged any other way.
No need to be hostile.
I understand the whole not accidentally flagging yourself part. I think if its possible for you to heal/buff a flagged player then it should flag you.
You are either not paying attention to my questions or don't understand them, so let me ask it in as simple way as I can.
Can I heal a flagged player without being flagged myself?
There is nothing in that quote about how you can flag or unflag yourself so you can't say that those "nightmare scenarios" as you call them aren't possible.
I thought you had some actual information but its apparent to me now that you are just stating an opinion (making stuff up).3 -
Halorin✭✭✭When you go into Cyrodiil, it's implied and expected that you could get attacked any moment by players or NPCs. You take the action to expose yourself to PvP. In the upcoming justice system, you accept that a consequence of your stealing and killing NPCs you could be attacked by other players. .
As I just said, that is forced choice. It means anyone that wants to play a criminal, despite that choice being a very popular PVE activity for decades of TES, now has to accept the risk of PVP. That is not the same thing as logging on to Cyrodil, but could be if there was a Justice-PVE/PVP login. I should not have to accept that my sneaky khajit doing what comes naturally means I am exposed to PVP, unless I choose to by logging in for PVP consequences to my sneakiness. Players are happy to play the PVE consequences of being a broke cat with a sweet tooth for that sweet roll, it is why players like to play the sneaky type. But the enjoyment of that risk goes away when it is another player wanting to PVP, if both have not consented to that type of play. This can only be solved with a PVE/PVP login, which will be good for everyone but PVP griefers looking for PVE victims, but since most the PVPers say that is a minority that should get banned anyways then such a login choice will not impact ZOS bottomline. Such a login will allow justice-PVP to be expanded to make the criminal guilds a Tamriel free for all, which they can never do if it is constrained to fit within PVE zones or even AVA zones.
I can't imagine if you're caught stealing once you automatically are exposed to PvP, but it's a possibility. The video showed that a guard NPC can find you and you could pay your way out of a bounty or flee. Presumably, other players will be able to attack you only if your bounty reaches a certain point.
I am staunchly against someone going around questing getting jumped by Cyrodiil junkies, but I think PVP should be a consequence of crime in the justice system. I could see a caveat where other players can go after you only if you kill NPCs, but I would not be upset if thieves were exposed to the wrath of player guards.
I can almost assure you there will never get a PvP/PvE separation at login just so you can attempt to steal without exposing yourself to consequences you don't want. They won't separate out instances for roleplayers, so I can't see them catering to your preferences.
By participating in the justice system, you HAVE consented to the type of play it entails which can include PvP. If you don't want to risk any PvP, then don't participate in activities that expose you to it.
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TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »We don't know the specifics yet, but they've been very clear about saying that you can't accidentally flag yourself. Period. No exceptions.
As for your "nightmare scenarios," neither of those work in the system as described. Guards can't stay hidden and randomly flag themselves, and unless all your criminal buddies were hanging out in a guarded area to commit crimes all at the same time, they can't magically flag themselves and become a hidden ambush.
I wasn't commenting on accidently flagging yourself I was commenting on whether or not you could assist someone who was flagged without doing so.
If as you say those "nightmare scenarios" cant happen then what information did you use to arrive at that conclusion?
I can't find anything about the flagging process. Can you be so kind as to link what you used to base your opinion on?
Here's the official quotation (emphasis mine):At QuakeCon, Paul Sage discussed the work being done on the in-development justice system, including the possibility of hunting down players who have a bounty. Only players who have chosen to participate in the activity of thievery will have a bounty on them, and be attackable, and only if you are a guard.
While certain activities may open you up to PvP outside of Cyrodiil, we are not considering world PvP.
So unless you have chosen to participate in a criminal act or flagged yourself as a guard, you will not be attackable. That's pretty black and white. Although I'm sure you'll find some kind of "loophole" in there, since you've managed to ignore every post prior to this explaining that you can't get flagged any other way.
No need to be hostile.
I understand the whole not accidentally flagging yourself part. I think if its possible for you to heal/buff a flagged player then it should flag you.
You are either not paying attention to my questions or don't understand them, so let me ask it in as simple way as I can.
Can I heal a flagged player without being flagged myself?
There is nothing in that quote about how you can flag or unflag yourself so you can't say that those "nightmare scenarios" as you call them aren't possible.
I thought you had some actual information but its apparent to me now that you are just stating an opinion (making stuff up).
Actually you do make a valid point, I wonder how ZOS will address it, I can imagine already people trolling guards & thieves buy just mass healing them while they fight so that nobody ever dies, this would really be a game breaker
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Then again, it's dangerous to flag for pvp people that heal thieves since you could have people accidentally dragged into PVP for just charging their ultimates...2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It most absolutely is possible. It happens in every single PVP game that has PVE zones with PVP flagging. To say otherwise means you have ulterior motives of taking advantage of that flagging system. Are you in denial that mob trolling is not already happening in this game in dungeons causing people to panic attack and kill? Of course the same thing is going to happen now with guard trolling. Do you deny that people blindly loot all the containers, even with autoloot in their desperation to find a rare, and that there is not going to be player guards following them around after they come out of the bank knowing they are likely to be broke? All of those things are possible and will happen, and the game cannot be changed to stop it happening short of a PVE/PVP login.
It is not up to you to say well bad criminals/players they just need to suffer the consequences of my PVP then. People like to play PVE criminals for the very reason of it is exciting to risk getting caught. People do not want to risk PVP for their own very valid reasons even if they like to roleplay a criminal risk. It is not up to you to decide what gameplay they are forced to have, but that seems to be a common theme for players that want PVP in PVE zones. Again if you want to PVP criminals then do it only if both have logged into a Justice-PVP instance, should not be something you have an issue with.
I'm sorry, please explain how anything you described leads to griefing (the repeated killing of a player in order to ruin their day).
- People "panic-attacking" are not being forced to attack. They are attacking things because they don't understand how the system works. Regardless, that can't be done with an NPC in town.
- If people blindly loot containers, they're going to have to be more careful about it. Why should carelessness be considered a developer issue?
- Similarly, if they're broke, whose fault is that? And if they can't pay the fine, oh well. They can die or (maybe) go to jail. That's a whopping 2 minutes out of their day.
If people like to play because of the risk, then this is the system they want. NPC guards aren't able to pose a significant threat to player characters, especially since players can always outrun NPCs. So anyone who wants crime to be risky should oppose a PvE-only system, as should anyone who wants to play a morally upstanding character. Or, in your mad desire to "take care" of roleplayers, did you forget about them?----
Murray?3 -
xChewtoyx✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »We don't know the specifics yet, but they've been very clear about saying that you can't accidentally flag yourself. Period. No exceptions.
As for your "nightmare scenarios," neither of those work in the system as described. Guards can't stay hidden and randomly flag themselves, and unless all your criminal buddies were hanging out in a guarded area to commit crimes all at the same time, they can't magically flag themselves and become a hidden ambush.
I wasn't commenting on accidently flagging yourself I was commenting on whether or not you could assist someone who was flagged without doing so.
If as you say those "nightmare scenarios" cant happen then what information did you use to arrive at that conclusion?
I can't find anything about the flagging process. Can you be so kind as to link what you used to base your opinion on?
Here's the official quotation (emphasis mine):At QuakeCon, Paul Sage discussed the work being done on the in-development justice system, including the possibility of hunting down players who have a bounty. Only players who have chosen to participate in the activity of thievery will have a bounty on them, and be attackable, and only if you are a guard.
While certain activities may open you up to PvP outside of Cyrodiil, we are not considering world PvP.
So unless you have chosen to participate in a criminal act or flagged yourself as a guard, you will not be attackable. That's pretty black and white. Although I'm sure you'll find some kind of "loophole" in there, since you've managed to ignore every post prior to this explaining that you can't get flagged any other way.
No need to be hostile.
I understand the whole not accidentally flagging yourself part. I think if its possible for you to heal/buff a flagged player then it should flag you.
You are either not paying attention to my questions or don't understand them, so let me ask it in as simple way as I can.
Can I heal a flagged player without being flagged myself?
There is nothing in that quote about how you can flag or unflag yourself so you can't say that those "nightmare scenarios" as you call them aren't possible.
I thought you had some actual information but its apparent to me now that you are just stating an opinion (making stuff up).
Actually you do make a valid point, I wonder how ZOS will address it, I can imagine already people trolling guards & thieves buy just mass healing them while they fight so that nobody ever dies, this would really be a game breaker.
Then again, it's dangerous to flag for pvp people that heal thieves since you could have people accidentally dragged into PVP for just charging their ultimates...
I think that healing or buffing should be disabled between flagged and unflagged players and the flagging process itself should involve traveling to one location where you can swear your allegiance to whatever side you choose.
If you make it so you can just flag up on a menu choice its gonna get messy
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You may consider repeated killing as griefing, it isn't a universally accepted requirement to be repeated.nerevarine1138 wrote: »It most absolutely is possible. It happens in every single PVP game that has PVE zones with PVP flagging. To say otherwise means you have ulterior motives of taking advantage of that flagging system. Are you in denial that mob trolling is not already happening in this game in dungeons causing people to panic attack and kill? Of course the same thing is going to happen now with guard trolling. Do you deny that people blindly loot all the containers, even with autoloot in their desperation to find a rare, and that there is not going to be player guards following them around after they come out of the bank knowing they are likely to be broke? All of those things are possible and will happen, and the game cannot be changed to stop it happening short of a PVE/PVP login.
It is not up to you to say well bad criminals/players they just need to suffer the consequences of my PVP then. People like to play PVE criminals for the very reason of it is exciting to risk getting caught. People do not want to risk PVP for their own very valid reasons even if they like to roleplay a criminal risk. It is not up to you to decide what gameplay they are forced to have, but that seems to be a common theme for players that want PVP in PVE zones. Again if you want to PVP criminals then do it only if both have logged into a Justice-PVP instance, should not be something you have an issue with.
I'm sorry, please explain how anything you described leads to griefing (the repeated killing of a player in order to ruin their day).
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
You may consider repeated killing as griefing, it isn't a universally accepted requirement to be repeated.nerevarine1138 wrote: »It most absolutely is possible. It happens in every single PVP game that has PVE zones with PVP flagging. To say otherwise means you have ulterior motives of taking advantage of that flagging system. Are you in denial that mob trolling is not already happening in this game in dungeons causing people to panic attack and kill? Of course the same thing is going to happen now with guard trolling. Do you deny that people blindly loot all the containers, even with autoloot in their desperation to find a rare, and that there is not going to be player guards following them around after they come out of the bank knowing they are likely to be broke? All of those things are possible and will happen, and the game cannot be changed to stop it happening short of a PVE/PVP login.
It is not up to you to say well bad criminals/players they just need to suffer the consequences of my PVP then. People like to play PVE criminals for the very reason of it is exciting to risk getting caught. People do not want to risk PVP for their own very valid reasons even if they like to roleplay a criminal risk. It is not up to you to decide what gameplay they are forced to have, but that seems to be a common theme for players that want PVP in PVE zones. Again if you want to PVP criminals then do it only if both have logged into a Justice-PVP instance, should not be something you have an issue with.
I'm sorry, please explain how anything you described leads to griefing (the repeated killing of a player in order to ruin their day).
It really is.
Getting killed once isn't being griefed. Griefing is a sustained act.----
Murray?3 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭By participating in the justice system, you HAVE consented to the type of play it entails which can include PvP. If you don't want to risk any PvP, then don't participate in activities that expose you to it.
But what about people who want to participate in a justice system without it involving interaction with other (hostile) players (pvp). There needs to be a pve version of the justice system. It isn't even like most people want open world pvp - only around 10% (if that) want this.
I feel that making the justice system involve pvp is a mistake, and needs to be reconsidered.
They should make the justice system optional pvp, add in dueling so people can test their pvp builds without needing to jink around trying to get themselves a bounty, and make sure Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood also do not involve pvp.Edited by babylon on July 28, 2014 3:18PM2 -
cracker81✭✭✭I have a feeling. When I go out to catch these criminals. They will have an ambush waiting for me or any other guard. Fun times. After the criminal dies does he/she is excused off all crime? If so, then I can see the griefers taking advantage over that.0
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Halorin✭✭✭But what about people who want to participate in a justice system without it involving interaction with other (hostile) players (pvp).
Then those people, by the definition of the justice system posed by the developers, do not want to participate in the justice system. They do not want to subject themselves to the consequences of the system and they need to decide if the rewards are worth the risks. That, to me, is the justice system at work.
I'm against completely open world PvP, but I don't subscribe to the notion that the justice system should be without PvP as a consequence.
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yarnevk✭✭✭You most certainly can have a justice system that involves consequences, every single TES single player game is full of bounties to be paid off, or NPC guards that will kill you or throw you in jail. They are not getting off scott free for being a bad criminal, they are just not involving themselves in PVP by choice, and only want to have PVE risk. Why would you not want to give them that choice?
Since it is claimed there are people that want to risk PVP while being a criminal, then there should be sufficient population to keep the PVP guards happy they just will not show up in the PVE instances. I play Defiance which has dungeon/arena and open world PVP, but I never see the open world PVP in my PVE instances because their PVP/PVE megaserver actually does work so it is not an issue of technology.
Spamming all containers in town is not an exploit, the game is designed that way and the autoloot addons have not been banned. As long as one is not using bot automation and interfering with other players (impossible with instanced containers) you can farm a town or dungeon all you want, and ESO encourages that playstyle with a market for rares. Of course people are going to still want to farm towns, they just want to have the option to not be subject to PVP consequences, and past TES games show they are happy to risk PVE consequences.Edited by yarnevk on July 28, 2014 3:47PM0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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In short, this justice system and all the resources going into its development is being wasted on pvp-only players, which are the minority in any game.2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I believe it's actually only 10% people (if that) from the posts here and people that don't bother coming here, that don't want Players to be Guards. In overall it will be a nice addition to the game and make it feel like the rest of the TES games.1 -
BugCollector✭✭✭✭Instead of the Justice System, I think most of us just want a simple duel option, no?
Give a player the option to ignore duel invites too and this should work just fine.
When two players duel, teleport them to a pocket plane of Oblivion and voilà!May knowledge guide you to enlightenment1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
In short, this justice system and all the resources going into its development is being wasted on pvp-only players, which are the minority in any game.
Of course not since the percentage of the players that get caught will probably be a minority and since pvp-only players are a minority in the game, there shouldn't be many guards or none at all since pvp-only players are in Cyrodill
(following your amazing logic ofc).
Edited by TehMagnus on July 28, 2014 3:44PM4 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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In short, this justice system and all the resources going into its development is being wasted on pvp-only players, which are the minority in any game.
Of course not since the percentage of the players that get caught will probably be a minority
See you're adding in pve players not getting caught as players on the team of "we love pvp consequences in the justice system" when they're actually on the "we want pve consequences only in the justice system" team.
It would be better to just roll this out as pve consequences with opt-in pvp for those that actually want to have pvp all over town in the open world.
Opt-in pvp is NOT "do not get caught" - opt-in pvp would have to be a toggle, where you can choose whether or not to involve other hostile players in your game.2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
In short, this justice system and all the resources going into its development is being wasted on pvp-only players, which are the minority in any game.
Of course not since the percentage of the players that get caught will probably be a minority
See you're adding in pve players not getting caught as players on the team of "we love pvp consequences in the justice system" when they're actually on the "we want pve consequences only in the justice system" team.
It would be better to just roll this out as pve consequences with opt-in pvp for those that actually want to have pvp all over town in the open world.
Opt-in pvp is NOT "do not get caught" - opt-in pvp would have to be a toggle, where you can choose whether or not to involve other hostile players in your game.
There will never be Opt-in PVP in the justice system.
Listen to Paul Sage's wise words, he began by saying this:
"If guards are only NPCs, I know you guys will find a way to abuse & exploit the system so we are puting in players in the guard faction".
So no, you will not be able to abuse the justice system by just running away from guards and stealing will have consequences.
As for PVE players not wanting to PVP, as it has been said before, there is no difference having a player or an NPC guard except you can't abuse/exploit game mecanics as easily to get away from player guards <= Exactly what is intended by devs.0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just imagine the justice system without player controlled guards, people will just keep looting the containers and gank up on guards as they come then resume looting over and over again, being effectively unstopable until they go to a fence to sell stolen items or drop them in a bank and then get killed by a guard and have their bounty dropped to 0. This kind of behavior is what they want to avoid by allowing player controlled guards.
System would be useless, might as well not implement it.Edited by TehMagnus on July 28, 2014 3:58PM2 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭That response is silly, PVE and PVP players fight hard NPCs all the time why would they not want to fight a NPC guard. PVE players are opposed to PC guards for the simple reason that PVP players always bring the griefing minority with them that is intent on disrupting their PVE play. PVE players may have already tried out a PVP game and quit those games for those reasons, or maybe they just came back from war and are done with fighting people even in games because of PTSD and only feel safe if it is PVE, or maybe they have moral/ethical reasons they learned from parents that fighting is wrong. You do not need to challenge their reasons whatever they are for not wanting to fight other players, they already made their choice to stay out of Cyrodil, so you need to allow them their choice to play a Justice-PVE. That is not for you to judge and tell them to get over it and they have to play a Justice-PVP.
Your posts are not even worth commenting on if you truly think that report player was responsible for getting rid of bots and will be effective in getting rid of griefers. That has never worked in any MMO anywhere. What got rid of most bots was not the show the admins put on of public bot killling, it was the login alt changes. Login controls are very effective and why a Justice-PVE and Justice-PVP will make everyone happy except the trolls, makes one wonder why you would argue against that.
lol did you just use a veterans with PTSD argument. I know this make shock you, but fighting a pixelated character is nothing like a war, even if it did stir up unpleasant memories, fighting npcs would too.
Stop trying to appeal to people emotions, it's bs and rather low imo.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.4 -
Repetition isn't necessary -- just doing it once can be enough to ruin someone's day. Griefing isn't killing the *same* player over and over -- it's a player killing other players (same or different) over and over.nerevarine1138 wrote: »I'm sorry, please explain how anything you described leads to griefing (the repeated killing of a player in order to ruin their day).
Actually, I'm less concerned with panic attacking than *accidental* attacking. How many times have you accidentally clicked and swung a weapon when not in battle? How many times have you accidentally triggered an Ultimate? I'm an older player and occasionally fumble things like that - I'd say a session doesn't go by when that hasn't happened at least once. If it happens in the wrong place and time, I've suddenly attacked an NPC even though I didn't want to. I've done that playing other Elder Scrolls games, but there we had no chance of being flagged for PvP. So, either we need to make it not immediately flag you until you've refused to pay your bounty, or there needs to be some way of saying you don't want to attack NPCs who might gain you a bounty. If that's not in place (and you can't tell me it is since the Devs have said nothing on that subject, and the Quakecon video implies it is ridiculously easy to attack NPCs…), then this means people CAN get accidentally flagged for PvP - and I'm totally against that.nerevarine1138 wrote: »- People "panic-attacking" are not being forced to attack. They are attacking things because they don't understand how the system works. Regardless, that can't be done with an NPC in town.
Why should the burning need for PvP by a small segment of players mean that people who don't want to do PvP need to be "more careful"? You're making us spend extra time dealing with the game for a feature we don't even want. Why should we be punished for that? So yes, it needs to be something the devs deal with, or again, you can have accidental PvP flagging.nerevarine1138 wrote: »- If people blindly loot containers, they're going to have to be more careful about it. Why should carelessness be considered a developer issue?
Again, why should we be forced to deal with that for a feature we don't even want? Because *you* deserve it? Go play in Cyrodil if you want to do PvP and leave the rest of the game to the rest of us.nerevarine1138 wrote: »- Similarly, if they're broke, whose fault is that? And if they can't pay the fine, oh well. They can die or (maybe) go to jail. That's a whopping 2 minutes out of their day.
You know, I understand why people would like this. I don't. I don't have any intention of being a criminal. I don't have any desire to fight guards or other players in PvE zones. I may eventually make my way to Cyrodil to do PvP stuff there, but that's a side trip and not really my interest in the game. Stealing, murdering, bounties, the whole Justice System, NONE of this has any interest for me whatsoever. I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to have to spend any time worrying about it. As long as there's an opt-in switch somewhere, which, if not opted in, means you CANNOT do any activity which could gain you a bounty, I'll be happy.nerevarine1138 wrote: »If people like to play because of the risk, then this is the system they want. NPC guards aren't able to pose a significant threat to player characters, especially since players can always outrun NPCs. So anyone who wants crime to be risky should oppose a PvE-only system, as should anyone who wants to play a morally upstanding character. Or, in your mad desire to "take care" of roleplayers, did you forget about them?
If not, then I'm against the whole thing.1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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In short, this justice system and all the resources going into its development is being wasted on pvp-only players, which are the minority in any game.
Of course not since the percentage of the players that get caught will probably be a minority
See you're adding in pve players not getting caught as players on the team of "we love pvp consequences in the justice system" when they're actually on the "we want pve consequences only in the justice system" team.
It would be better to just roll this out as pve consequences with opt-in pvp for those that actually want to have pvp all over town in the open world.
Opt-in pvp is NOT "do not get caught" - opt-in pvp would have to be a toggle, where you can choose whether or not to involve other hostile players in your game.
There will never be Opt-in PVP in the justice system.
Listen to Paul Sage's wise words, he began by saying this:
"If guards are only NPCs, I know you guys will find a way to abuse & exploit the system so we are puting in players in the guard faction"..
Oh so it's better that people get pvp forced on them rather than they get to run away with 9 gold pieces worth of sweet rolls. I see where this game is heading.3 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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In short, this justice system and all the resources going into its development is being wasted on pvp-only players, which are the minority in any game.
Of course not since the percentage of the players that get caught will probably be a minority
See you're adding in pve players not getting caught as players on the team of "we love pvp consequences in the justice system" when they're actually on the "we want pve consequences only in the justice system" team.
It would be better to just roll this out as pve consequences with opt-in pvp for those that actually want to have pvp all over town in the open world.
Opt-in pvp is NOT "do not get caught" - opt-in pvp would have to be a toggle, where you can choose whether or not to involve other hostile players in your game.
There will never be Opt-in PVP in the justice system.
Listen to Paul Sage's wise words, he began by saying this:
"If guards are only NPCs, I know you guys will find a way to abuse & exploit the system so we are puting in players in the guard faction"..
Oh so it's better that people get pvp forced on them rather than they get to run away with 9 gold pieces worth of sweet rolls. I see where this game is heading.
It's not forced, they choose to try to get away with 9 gold pieces worth of sweet rolls.Edited by TehMagnus on July 28, 2014 4:07PM1 -
Halorin✭✭✭You most certainly can have a justice system that involves consequences, every single TES single player game is full of bounties to be paid off, or NPC guards that will kill you or throw you in jail. They are not getting off scott free for being a bad criminal, they are just not involving themselves in PVP by choice, and only want to have PVE risk. Why would you not want to give them that choice?
Since it is claimed there are people that want to risk PVP while being a criminal, then there should be sufficient population to keep the PVP guards happy they just will not show up in the PVE instances. I play Defiance which has dungeon/arena and open world PVP, but I never see the open world PVP in my PVE instances because their PVP/PVE megaserver actually does work so it is not an issue of technology.
Spamming all containers in town is not an exploit, the game is designed that way and the autoloot addons have not been banned. As long as one is not using bot automation and interfering with other players (impossible with instanced containers) you can farm a town or dungeon all you want, and ESO encourages that playstyle with a market for rares. Of course people are going to still want to farm towns, they just want to have the option to not be subject to PVP consequences, and past TES games show they are happy to risk PVE consequences.
Sure you can have a justice system that involves non-PvP consequences. Seemingly, the developers don't want to make such a system. A PvP component is a step toward regenerative dynamic content, which is something I am ecstatic about. And I'm not someone that usually enjoys PvP in MMOs.
I would suspect that there's a threshold that can be minded to not expose yourself to PvP, but that should be the only concession made to people who want to be selective about what consequences they want to expose themselves to. In my opinion, anyway.
Ideally, the risks should be worth the reward, but you should be able to be attacked by guards at any time if you're caught killing NPCs.
The justice system blurs the line of immersion. If you are caught being a criminal, a guard can come after you. It doesn't and shouldn't matter if the guard happens to be controlled by a player or not. It would make no sense in the lore and history you seem to be using as a foundation for your argument that a criminal could be like 'Oh THIS set of guards can attack me or put me in jail but THAT set can't!'
It sounds like the notion of difficult opposition to your criminal activity is preventing you from wanting to commit said crime, which means the justice system is working before it's even implemented.
Unless and until the developers say there is a PvE only variant of the justice system, it seems like you'll just have to face the notion that you might get attacked by another player if you engage in criminal activity. If you want to avoid being attacked by other players, don't commit crimes.
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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In short, this justice system and all the resources going into its development is being wasted on pvp-only players, which are the minority in any game.
Of course not since the percentage of the players that get caught will probably be a minority
See you're adding in pve players not getting caught as players on the team of "we love pvp consequences in the justice system" when they're actually on the "we want pve consequences only in the justice system" team.
It would be better to just roll this out as pve consequences with opt-in pvp for those that actually want to have pvp all over town in the open world.
Opt-in pvp is NOT "do not get caught" - opt-in pvp would have to be a toggle, where you can choose whether or not to involve other hostile players in your game.
There will never be Opt-in PVP in the justice system.
Listen to Paul Sage's wise words, he began by saying this:
"If guards are only NPCs, I know you guys will find a way to abuse & exploit the system so we are puting in players in the guard faction"..
Oh so it's better that people get pvp forced on them rather than they get to run away with 9 gold pieces worth of sweet rolls. I see where this game is heading.
It's not forced, they choose to try to get away with 9 gold pieces worth of sweet rolls.
It IS forced - they wanted to interact only with NPCs not other players.1
