ZOS are you ever going to speak up on personal banks?

Fleymark

You seem to think that this is some academic exercise and, somehow, "do what I say not as I do" holds some water.

Your personal choices are being called into question because of what they are and how they directly pertain to what is being discussed here. You chose to A ) use a guild bank in a way that is not the usual or, given the 10 member requirement, intended to give yourself 500 free bank spaces. Something a player cannot do otherwise even with unlimited gold. And B ) you've come into this thread and vehemently argued that the current inventory system is fine and should be this way because of lofty things like "gold sinks" and "balance" etc.

One or the other would be fine. But both, together, are not. And all of your trying to maneuver around that logical fact is nothing more than a hypocritical rationalization.

The inventory system in this game is outright stupid. And I don't use that word lightly or because I don't have a better word for it. I call it stupid because it's STUPID. With a capitol S. Whoever concieved of it should have their credentials as a capable game designer questioned in the future. And the fact that it exists sheds quite a bit of light on everything else that's wrong with this game from a design standpoint. And I say that as a gamer of over 35 years and an MMO player of over 15. Stupid. Even moreso considering how not challenging at all the rest of the game is and is likely continuing to become, if you listen to all the discussion about upcoming changes.

But, then, to have someone who has done an end run around it completely by using guilds in a way that isn't intended and that most players won't or can't come in and discuss, matter of factly, that it needs to be this way is simply ridiculous.

It's nothing personal. It's just that you have no credibility to discuss the matter because of what you have chosen to do in game.

Rev Rielle

Blackwidow wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

I personally think personal banks are fine.
I'd suggest people should just stop whining over and over and over again and just get on with playing the game and adapting to the way it is. Just because something is different, doesn't mean it's wrong or in need of fixing.

"I don't have a problem, therefore there is no problem."

"Sure, there's no downside to larger banks, but I still don't want it to happen"

It's like people don't want others to like the game.

Your point makes no sense to your own topic.
Let's go back to your opening post: you accused Zenimax of not speaking up about this (Indeed it was your post title). The fact is they have multiple times in the past. You've now been shown this in the thread and yet you (and others) are still carrying on for some reason. I think you like arguing just for the sake of it.

The reality is there is no inherent problem to begin with, it's just personal preference. Zenimax have made their line clear and have told you themselves in plain english the downside of larger banks. If you're unwilling to accept that, that's your problem. It does not change any of the facts.

Blackwidow

badmojo wrote: »

Because you have to look at both things objectively.

Always with a personal snub.

Just the facts please.

Is it okay to give players more space at the end for more gold?

Yes.

Does that fall in line with the current system that we've all been held to, the system the developers have put in place and defended from criticism? Yes, yes it does.

Your goal is to keep the first part of the expense the same. You have said that many times.

Then I ask you many times, why? Where is the harm in the slight change?

Still, no answer.

Is it okay to give new players extra space at the start?

Yes.

Does that fall in line with the current system that we've all been held to, the system the developers have put in place and defended from criticism? No, I don't think it does.

It would be a slight change. So, again, where is the harm?

Therefore, I have problems with giving low level players more space for their money.

One thing does not balance out the other thing. They're two different situations and two different changes.

W
H
Y
?

You want things to stay the same so they can stay the same. That is all you are giving me here.

Blackwidow

Rev Rielle wrote: »

The fact is they have multiple times in the past.

They have spoken of it one time, over a year ago. They said it was to keep crafting in line. That has not worked.

Also, if you have not noticed, this is also about how bad the bank system is, and we are discussing it.

If you don't want to discuss the actual bank system, feel free to go to another thread.

The reality is there is no inherent problem to begin with, it's just personal preference.

And you know I disagree with you. Nothing new to add?

How about you tell me the downside to more bank space?

Zenimax have made their line clear and have told you themselves in plain english the downside of larger banks.

Really, then tell me. Go ahead. All I have seen is the crafting excuse from over a year ago.

Let me guess, it's not your job to tell me, you just want to come here and argue with no real point.

If you're unwilling to accept that, that's your problem. It does not change any of the facts.

Thanks. Bye Bye now.

badmojo

Thank you for finally owning up to the fact that you actually want to make things cheaper for new players.

I want the gold sinks to stay the same for the reasons ZOS made them that way in the first place. Because it gives you something to spend your gold on, and it makes life difficult for people trying to do too much at once. It forces players to realize that while they can only hold on to X number of items, they can hold unlimited amounts of gold, so maybe they should start selling more stuff. Instead of being a hoarder.

Making life difficult for a player when they try to do something, isn't simply to make life difficult. It's to encourage(and not force) a player down the right path. They could go another route and impose hard limits on the game, limiting the amount of crafts one can do, limiting the amount of items you can sell per day, or something else that wouldn't be very interesting to someone like me. I personally prefer natural barriers in my video games, rather than invisible walls.

The limited inventory space is a form of natural barrier. It's something people need to work around rather than simply stepping over it. When you want to lower the price of the early game storage, you make that barrier smaller and easier to side step. That is my opinion, and it will never change.

Blackwidow

badmojo wrote: »

Thank you for finally owning up to the fact that you actually want to make things cheaper for new players.

Finally? Wow.

Well, for the last three or four posts I have done the math for you over and over.

Cheaper at the start, more expensive in the end.

Would you like me to go pull all the quotes? Even the ones you have already acknowledged?

I want the gold sinks to stay the same for the reasons ZOS made them that way in the first place.

Go on.....

Because it gives you something to spend your gold on

Even my way, you still have gold to spend on banks. That would not change.

it makes life difficult for people trying to do too much at once.

What does this mean?

It? What it it? Goldsinks? Goldsinks make life difficult to do too much at once?

What?

What is too much at once? Do you mean crafting?

It forces players to realize that while they can only hold on to X number of items, they can hold unlimited amounts of gold, so maybe they should start selling more stuff. Instead of being a hoarder.

So, we went full circle and now you are arguing more bank space is a bad thing.

I don't care. I really don't at this point. As long as it is added at some point, i don't care how.

The limited inventory space is a form of natural barrier. It's something people need to work around rather than simply stepping over it. When you want to lower the price of the early game storage, you make that barrier smaller and easier to side step. That is my opinion, and it will never change.

Says the man who started with a guild bank of his own. You simply stepped over it and got a personal guild bank.

This is just a bit hypocritical, yes?

Other people should have this challenge. Other people need a small bank space at the start.

You--"Well, then they should just get a personal guild bank"

So, instead of changing the system for normal people who do not want to do a runaround with the guild banks, you want to screw them of more space.

Nice.

Fleymark

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

I personally think personal banks are fine.
I'd suggest people should just stop whining over and over and over again and just get on with playing the game and adapting to the way it is. Just because something is different, doesn't mean it's wrong or in need of fixing.

"I don't have a problem, therefore there is no problem."

"Sure, there's no downside to larger banks, but I still don't want it to happen"

It's like people don't want others to like the game.

Your point makes no sense to your own topic.
Let's go back to your opening post: you accused Zenimax of not speaking up about this (Indeed it was your post title). The fact is they have multiple times in the past. You've now been shown this in the thread and yet you (and others) are still carrying on for some reason. I think you like arguing just for the sake of it.

The reality is there is no inherent problem to begin with, it's just personal preference. Zenimax have made their line clear and have told you themselves in plain english the downside of larger banks. If you're unwilling to accept that, that's your problem. It does not change any of the facts.

What you seem to not understand is that it doesn't matter what Zenimax has said about it. It's being discussed because it still needs to be changed. Because the system that is in place is, simply put, stupid.

Like so many other design aspects of this game. Honestly, if you are trying to convince people about a particular aspect of the design of the game, quoting what zenimax devs have said about it is probably not the way to go.

There ARE fantastic aspects to the design of this game. Unfortunately, they tend to be overshadowed at every turn by design aspects that are nothing short of a complete train wreck. This inventory situation being one of them.

It's really amazing, too. There are great things in this game...Then you run into things that make you wonder what amature hour they got these designers from. At times you have to wonder if these people even have the first clue as to what dynamics drive an MMO population or if any of them have ever even played an MMO before. Or if any of them even have any concept of basic game theory, at that.

There's a reason I cringed when I read that the team was being headed up by a former DAoC designer. A fantastic game, one of the all-time greats, run into the ground by key BAD design decisions. JUST like this one. And there was no shortage of players pointing them out at the time. Yet they adamantly insisted that they were right. Sound familiar?

The paying subscriber base disagreed. One game's population plummeted and never recovered...it gets 300ish players peak now...The other shut its servers down a couple years ago. It only lasted about 3 years.

So, quoting what these guys intend isn't really saying much because they've proven before and in other aspects of this game that intentions and reality ne'er the 'tween shall meet, as they say.

Fleymark

badmojo wrote: »

Thank you for finally owning up to the fact that you actually want to make things cheaper for new players.

I want the gold sinks to stay the same for the reasons ZOS made them that way in the first place. Because it gives you something to spend your gold on, and it makes life difficult for people trying to do too much at once. It forces players to realize that while they can only hold on to X number of items, they can hold unlimited amounts of gold, so maybe they should start selling more stuff. Instead of being a hoarder.

Making life difficult for a player when they try to do something, isn't simply to make life difficult. It's to encourage(and not force) a player down the right path. They could go another route and impose hard limits on the game, limiting the amount of crafts one can do, limiting the amount of items you can sell per day, or something else that wouldn't be very interesting to someone like me. I personally prefer natural barriers in my video games, rather than invisible walls.

The limited inventory space is a form of natural barrier. It's something people need to work around rather than simply stepping over it. When you want to lower the price of the early game storage, you make that barrier smaller and easier to side step. That is my opinion, and it will never change.

Especially since this "barrier" doesn't affect you. You cheesed 500 free bank spaces by abusing the guild mechanism.

Laff

badmojo

@Blackwidow
Nah, I'm arguing that giving early players an easier time getting inventory space is a bad thing. More space is fine, but you have to earn it.

Gold sinks aren't the thing that makes life difficult. Having a limited amount of inventory space does. Look at all the complaining, it seems to be working as intended. In order to overcome the obstacle of limited inventory, you need to earn a bunch of gold and spend it on that.

Gold sinks fix the problem of the economy overflowing with too much money, limited(and upgradable) inventory space gives the player something to work towards.

Too much at once is literally trying to do too much at once. Being a jack of all trades so to speak, collecting far too much and trying to do everything at the same time. You yourself said you did all the crafts with one character. No wonder you're so pissed about the inventory system. Not that I'm trying to dismiss your complaints and suggestions because of that, it was just an example of one thing that can lead to inventory issues.

The thing I like about ESO's design is that it's very flexible. There's a lot of room for working the system to your advantage, or planning a less extreme route to alleviate the hassles it can create. There's nothing stopping a person from buying and selling their way to a huge inventory without even getting to level 2. If you want to do the extra work, you can create 7 mules and get more storage for free. Or with a bit of socializing you could potentially get a group with 2500 guild bank slots shared between 10 people.(If you want to dedicate all 5 guilds to it.)

TL:DR: I like the balance between storage & gold right now.

badmojo

@Blackwidow‌
Oh I see you edited and are focusing on my guild bank...yet again.

Dude, I've already said many times directly to you, that I don't need the guild bank space to be happy. I could handle losing it. How many times are you going to harp on this subject and try to discredit me?

I could disband the guild and close it up, lose hundreds of provisioning materials, move the important few runes to my personal bank, spend 50k to get more space and nothing would really change. I've already resorted to only picking up ingredients I need, the hundreds of them I have aren't doing anything for me really. The space was there, so I used it. Oh no!

Rev Rielle

Blackwidow wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

The fact is they have multiple times in the past.

They have spoken of it one time, over a year ago. They said it was to keep crafting in line. That has not worked.

Even once should be enough. They shouldn't have to repeat themselves over and over every time someone brings this old topic up again. And the crafting reason was one point, yes. But there are others, like economic ones. Read the posts above in your own thread, especially Cogo's.

The reality is there is no inherent problem to begin with, it's just personal preference.

And you know I disagree with you. Nothing new to add?

I'm not going to perpetual this by saying the same things over again. Like I said before, you're just seemingly looking for someone to argue with. The above statement of yours adds to your apparent provocatorial nature. All the information you need on Zenimax's stance has already been provided for you. Take it on board or not, it's your choice. But don't try and put the blame on others when they're simple trying to educate you to the facts of the situation. You think there's a problem and that's your right, I don't see there's a problem and that's my right. Zenimax have made their stance on the situation perfectly clear. If you can't deal with it - once again - that's no one's problem but your own. Honestly, if it's such a big issue for you you should ask yourself if the game's worth playing or not. You have that choice; to keep playing or no. No one's forcing you, either way.

Zenimax have made their line clear and have told you themselves in plain english the downside of larger banks.

Really, then tell me. Go ahead. All I have seen is the crafting excuse from over a year ago.

Once again; you expect people to continually repeat themselves for your circular arguments. The information has already be provided. Stop asking for it over and over again, ad nauseam. Whether it was said a day ago, a month, or a year is irrelevant. It's there for all to see, and it still holds true.

Blackwidow

badmojo wrote: »

@Blackwidow
Nah, I'm arguing that giving early players an easier time getting inventory space is a bad thing. More space is fine, but you have to earn it.

Gold sinks aren't the thing that makes life difficult. Having a limited amount of inventory space does. Look at all the complaining, it seems to be working as intended. In order to overcome the obstacle of limited inventory, you need to earn a bunch of gold and spend it on that.

Gold sinks fix the problem of the economy overflowing with too much money, limited(and upgradable) inventory space gives the player something to work towards.

Too much at once is literally trying to do too much at once. Being a jack of all trades so to speak, collecting far too much and trying to do everything at the same time. You yourself said you did all the crafts with one character. No wonder you're so pissed about the inventory system. Not that I'm trying to dismiss your complaints and suggestions because of that, it was just an example of one thing that can lead to inventory issues.

The thing I like about ESO's design is that it's very flexible. There's a lot of room for working the system to your advantage, or planning a less extreme route to alleviate the hassles it can create. There's nothing stopping a person from buying and selling their way to a huge inventory without even getting to level 2. If you want to do the extra work, you can create 7 mules and get more storage for free. Or with a bit of socializing you could potentially get a group with 2500 guild bank slots shared between 10 people.(If you want to dedicate all 5 guilds to it.)

TL:DR: I like the balance between storage & gold right now.

You chose to have more bank space with the guild bank. Why. Because you enjoyed the game more with more space.

There was no challenge for you. You had 500 extra spaces early on.

So, it is a complete farse you want others lives to be difficult when yours wasn't.

It's that simple.

You don't have a right to an opinion, when you did not live the way you want others to live.

Blackwidow

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Even once should be enough. They shouldn't have to repeat themselves over and over....

Once is not over and over...

Asking for communication more than once a year is fine, I think.

BTW, I'm trying to make the game better. You have not said or shown one reason that more bank space would be bad.

Either has ZOS.

Whether it was said a day ago, a month, or a year is irrelevant. It's there for all to see, and it still holds true.

It is not true. The one thing they have said over a year ago is not true.

Tiny banks did not stop people from crafting.

Let it sink in before posting the same thing over and please.

Arora

my only problem with the bank is the small stack limit, and maybe a few more tabs in personal and guild bank

shiva7663

I have eight alts and no main character. If I take the plunge and grind level one of them to max as quickly and cynically as possible, will I then have enough gold to maximize my shared bank space and the pack space of all eight of my characters?

badmojo

Blackwidow wrote: »

You don't have a right to an opinion, when you did not live the way you want others to live.

I don't want to take the guild bank ability from anyone. I even suggested ways to make it harder for people like me to use it as personal storage.

Cogo

Hey guys.

This is a bit of reading, but explains quite well banking, economy and overall interact among MMO players.

There are several interviews with Zenimax mangers to be found online. I know there is one in text about the economy system, the rest is like 10 I found, in youtube and pods. You have listen to stuff.

This may shed some light for those who get frustrated by Zenimax not answering.
If you dont like to read big novels like I write ;-), here is the important summery.

---

For both types of traders though, one thing is for sure – the benefits to fostering social connections with other players will be much stronger than they have been in other recent MMORPGs; yet it is important to remember that ultimately, The Elder Scrolls Online has been forced to limit players’ access to the market because of their decision to utilize a mega-server.

With the massive scale of the population, having the economy split only into thirds by the alliances would quickly result in a highly saturated, nigh untenable market, which would inevitably detract from the overall quality of the game experience.

While their decision to segment the market based on social mechanisms like guilds may lead to a more socially involved economy, it is important to point out that this is most likely seen by the developers as an incidental benefit at best. The social economy is something that is by necessity player driven, so if this is something we want, it is up to communities like our own to make it succeed.

---

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2013/11/eso-and-the-resurgence-of-the-social-economy/

http://tamrieljournal.com/eso-bag-space-guide/

I do think Zenimax should have this info here. At least the Bag space guide, dont you think?
Zeni support Tamrielfoundry.

I am just speculating now, but if there is any increase in bank/bag space, they would announce it. The size is calculated for a reason, not to mess with us

DanteYoda

Hadria wrote: »

What's wrong with it?

Whats right with it?

DanteYoda

Rotherhans wrote: »

The inventory system is an utter disgrace and among the major reasons I am leaving this game.

I(WE) could care less what the "all is well, you´re doing it wrong" crowd thinks.

When a frikken "F2P" like GW2 can have a hilariously superior inventory system WHILE monetizing it, it simply shines a bad light on the game design philosophy pushed by the "deciders" here.
Quite frankly leaving me weary of their other "ideas".

Totally agree...

6 days my sub ends finally and good riddance to this broken game

Lodestar

Thorwil wrote: »

A lot of people are attacking this guy for no reason. I can tell you that I am a level 28 Blacksmither and am at level 50 Provisioning and I have a very hard time managing my inventory. I spend a lot of time managing it because I need all the ores/ingot, a very little bit of armor/weapon i have made by special crafting or that I am saving for research. None of this takes into account all of the food/drink ingredients I have to procure and save for my ingredients. Not only do I like leveling my character (VR2) but I have many people who hit me up for food/drink and specially crafted armor, this is how I make money for my mats. Its not a huge cash grab but i enjoy doing it. I, also, do alchemy. So between the food ingredients, the BS mats, and the Alchemy Mats i have little to no room for anything. I have 100 bank and 100 personal slots for storage and I tire of going between mules to swap things around. It takes a large amount of my time to do this and it's not needed. I don't trust Guild banks for my mats because I'm in 5 trading guilds and I don't know who has access to those.

This guy was merely trying to express a problem that many people have had. If you don't agree with him, fine, but you have no right to attack him or the way he manages his inventory. We are a family against Molag Bal, lets act like it!

I posted this earlier in this thread, from one of our own mods here @Thorwil on the subject and how this discussion is going here.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/103101/inventory-is-unmanageable/p17

It appears people have gotten so wrapped up in themselves they have forgotten, or they just missed it because they saw the thread, missed a few pages, and bust unable to control their impulses.

Fact remains your also telling @Thorwil he is "playing wrong" and a "Hoarder" too. There is nothing, any of you are saying, changes or invalidates what @Thorwil , myself, or anyone else has said.

babylon

Laerania_ESO wrote: »

Hadria wrote: »

What's wrong with it?

Personal bank doesn't exist, that's the "problem".

ESO probably has one of the worst inventory systems in AAA mmorpg (for those who still dream about triple A) history.

Apparently, to this company, the subscription fee is not enough to pay a decent database row.

Yeah I suspect it's them just being cheap with database space. The way people's banks disappeared at early access due to that bug points to some kind of issue with their database.

Nazon_Katts

Yeah, I suspect it's the phasing system that bogs the servers down and the 'slim' DB was a workaround or a necessity to free up more resources in order for the servers to perform at a sufficient level.

See, that's a reason I could accept. Technical difficulties and resulting limitations. That's comprehensible and not that much of a biggie as long as they keep working on improving that. All other reasons given just seemed as if they wanted to tout said limitations as 'social' features or economical measures.

Here's hoping that the reason we're waiting on the EU server move is for this very reason, because they're still testing different software/hardware solution. At least then it would make sense why things are taking so long.

I remain clueless why they wouldn't communicate that, however. So it's probably just wishful thinking.

Cogo

I want to wait on the move as well...but if you are correct, that the problem is "server" resources? Can be! Sure!

Not saying it cant be that, but if it is.....

The hardware is cheap, compared to the software and support alone.
We can only guess....but I think its harder to locate the problem when some people have very little problem and some cant play at all.

You "can" be right if they are started the project to move the EU server. But adding resources is no money in the whole.

Why any MMO company would say what structure of datacenter they have, have I only seen once. Eve. And that was to show off to the rest of the world.

I'll put on a smiley face! And Patch will fix it!

Sapphy24

For me, the banking system is antiquated,inadequate,irritating and time consuming.

Blackwidow wrote: »

I don't think it is too much to ask what they plan to do in the future for the banking system, if anything.

@Mortosk Exactly

I think this is a reasonable question and one that I would like to have some sort of answer too.
I do remember suggesting that communication is paramount and the lack of it is what can and will make people rethink their attitude to this game (which I really like). I can't stress enough.....
Communicate your thoughts, what may happen, what you might do, I'm not asking for you to write it in your blood, but please, don't just ignore us.
To do so may be your undoing.

Nestor

I have 6 mules to store my mats and I am sure all my friends love seeing me log in and out of my alts several times a session while I do inventory management. I know I don't want to see the Login/Logout spam as my friends do this. Arbitrary bag space limitations are rendered moot when we have Mule Alts. So, why have them? Sure, it should not be unlimited, but what we have now is not fun.

I have never used a 5 piece set or kept any of my trophies (why give them out if you can't keep them?) as I need precious space just to run the game. Treasure Maps? Never keep those, I use a website to show me where the Treasures are because I can't keep the maps around long enough to use them. I am not a crafter for crafting sake, I craft items to survive in the game. This requires mats being collected ahead of time.

I hate going through a dungeon or area and seeing the Your Inventory is full message after the first stage of a dungeon or area. Then I have to either manage inventory right there in the dungeon (and get killed or damaged while doing that), or drop out and lose the group of people I was playing with.

We need more space or stack levels. It won't break the game as we already use tedious methods to get around the limitations. Methods that add nothing to the game play.

Pleazantry

My issue with the bank system is turning personal. 2 weeks ago every single thing in my bank disappeared. I had multiple stacks of items. Poofed. Gone. Mario in support is telling me to be patient. I've been playing since early access, looting my hoard to craft and it's ALL gone. Week one I have extended patience. Week two is tolerance. Week three may very well be a game breaker for me. The banking system is horribly flawed and even though many have had their issue resolved with the disappearing bank situation.. mine happened TWO weeks ago!! To me, as a paying customer, this issue has NOT at all been resolved.

babylon

Pleazantry wrote: »

My issue with the bank system is turning personal. 2 weeks ago every single thing in my bank disappeared. I had multiple stacks of items. Poofed. Gone. Mario in support is telling me to be patient. I've been playing since early access, looting my hoard to craft and it's ALL gone. Week one I have extended patience. Week two is tolerance. Week three may very well be a game breaker for me. The banking system is horribly flawed and even though many have had their issue resolved with the disappearing bank situation.. mine happened TWO weeks ago!! To me, as a paying customer, this issue has NOT at all been resolved.

Two weeks ago? So this bug is still going on

Cogo

Ok, after some google I found this.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/view/forums/thread/407085/Crafting-questions-answered-by-Paul-Sage-from-Zenimax-with-source.html

There tons of videos if anyone wants to look. I dont.

Lodestar

babylon wrote: »

Pleazantry wrote: »

My issue with the bank system is turning personal. 2 weeks ago every single thing in my bank disappeared. I had multiple stacks of items. Poofed. Gone. Mario in support is telling me to be patient. I've been playing since early access, looting my hoard to craft and it's ALL gone. Week one I have extended patience. Week two is tolerance. Week three may very well be a game breaker for me. The banking system is horribly flawed and even though many have had their issue resolved with the disappearing bank situation.. mine happened TWO weeks ago!! To me, as a paying customer, this issue has NOT at all been resolved.

Two weeks ago? So this bug is still going on

My thoughts exactly. I got this bug in the first month, but it was fixed fairly fast enough. @Pleazantry I can not fathom why this is still an issue now, as I and others were told this was fixed.

Mortosk

Cogo wrote: »

Ok, after some google I found this.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/view/forums/thread/407085/Crafting-questions-answered-by-Paul-Sage-from-Zenimax-with-source.html

There tons of videos if anyone wants to look. I dont.

We all know what their stance is, Cogo. We just vehemently disagree with it.
They've already admitted they were wrong on their vision of people wanting to group to complete veteran leveling content and plan to fix the difficulty to make it more easily soloable. We feel that they are wrong about this as well. We are trying to help them see their mistakes for the betterment of all who play and have to deal with this extremely frustrating tedium every day.