ZOS are you ever going to speak up on personal banks?

nawlinzbilly

andre.roques.3b14_ESO wrote: »

Are you looking for in game filters? What suggestions do you have for improvements? Be aware, there are many banking functions that can be added through 3rd party addons that make life much easier without breaking any type of immersion.

Exactly what i was going to suggest. It might not be a permanent fix, but until they get around to fixing it, the 3rd party add-ons are awesome. I love "Personal Assistant"

Lodestar

indytims_ESO wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

ZOS, please just say something. Anything.

Is there any plans for a change at all?

As many have already told you - Zeni owes no explanation for this. You have plenty of storage. If you can't deal - there are other games that offer more.

It's a simple concept. Expecting Zeni to come to the forums to address every single nitpicking question is petulant, at best, especially when there is nothing wrong with the system in place. Your personal desire for more space is not a 'critical' issue, and your demand for a personal response is silly.

And you have already been told, this is a very serious matter for others, and that because you are not feeling affected, does not make it a fact it is not for anybody.

You have also been told elsewhere hyperbole debate gets you nowhere. Yet you persist with this utter crap. "They don't have to answer every nitpick" Patronising all you have to make your point? You must really suck. There were tons of complaints about this on other threads, guess you missed them.

Oh, and people are leaving for those other games. And it is hurting revenue. God forbid you think before you speak.

Lodestar

nawlinzbilly wrote: »

andre.roques.3b14_ESO wrote: »

Are you looking for in game filters? What suggestions do you have for improvements? Be aware, there are many banking functions that can be added through 3rd party addons that make life much easier without breaking any type of immersion.

Exactly what i was going to suggest. It might not be a permanent fix, but until they get around to fixing it, the 3rd party add-ons are awesome. I love "Personal Assistant"

Is there any 3rd party add on that gives more bank or inventory space? No. Furthermore, I am observing two things in this forum, I have never seen any other MMO forum. People pushing add ons left right and centre, and people claiming add ons are NEEDED so much. That really ought to tell you something.

Blackwidow

I got a personal response from ZOS_LenaicR.

I don't know if she wants me to post it on the forums. I left a message with her to ask if she will post it or if it is okay for me to.

Blackwidow

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

It's unneccesarily inconvenient. You can have all professions on one char and can manage inventory with multiple mules just fine, that's true.

But where's the difference to "people will roll just Alts to have all professions available to them, so we allow to them all on one char" then? Following this logic nothing forbids more storage space on a single character. Unless you wish to monetize it.

I did not understand that bold sentence.

Too long in the sun, I suppose...

Anyways, that's the statement from ZOS. Allow all professions on a single char, because people do it anyways on Alts. So why not have all needed inventory on one character, people do it anyways on Alts here, too.

Hope now it's tad bit clearer what I tried getting at. Been even longer in sun now, tho. I feel crabtastic!

But that makes absolutely no sense.

How can you have all inventory on one character and also all inventory on an alt? That would mean all inventory is on each character, which is impossible.

Why have all inventory on one character in the first place? Each character has different needs for different items.

Now if they want us to have a shared bank, then fine, I'm all for a shared bank, but each character still needs it's own bank space, if for nothing else than a bit of organization.

This is the ONLY pay to play MMO that did not give each character it's own bank space.

Hell, most free to play MMOs have better banking than this one does.

Cogo

Leave them alone. It always takes time before kids understand that nagging and getting the same answer will not get them anywhere.

Feel sorry for their sub time though. Could have had fun like I had in cyro just now!

brandon

Cogo wrote: »

Leave them alone. It always takes time before kids understand that nagging and getting the same answer will not get them anywhere.

Feel sorry for their sub time though. Could have had fun like I had in cyro just now!

Cogo I usually agree with you, but calling people kids when all they want is a personal bank to store their toons items isn't very kind of you.

Nazon_Katts

@Blackwidow All needed inventory. As in sufficient personal bank/char/horse space. Should have said space, probably, sorry for the confusion. So you had the same very generous amount of space on every single character, plus an option to share.

That this is not the case just contradicts their design decision of allowing all professions on one char (freedom), but then providing not enough space on said char (limitation). This, of course, makes space on a single char a sought after good.

All it takes to circumvent that is to have a couple of mules and spent some time moving items. A rather inconvenient process. For this same reason they allowed all profession on one char, so they should allow sufficient space as well. But since they don't, they just increase the worth of single char space.

I bet people would pay cash to extent their inventories.

KariTR

Goods lords, I bet you get rather full at an 'eat all you want' buffet Nazon.

@Lodestar, I don't use any addons in game. I have invested in adding more inventory and bank space though and run around with 70 free spaces when I go out adventuring. I was quite a low level when I realised that provisioning was stuffing me up, so I only pick up ingredients for the recipe I currently use.

Nazon_Katts

@KariTR thanks for your concern about my health, but no need to worry. I can restrain myself.

But I'd rather have an 'all you can eat buffet' with an abundance of everything so I can pick and choose to my liking than one that does just have a limited selection.

I know, that's probably too much for other people to even make a choice anymore, but it's about options, isn't it?

KariTR

Because at lower levels bag space is limited, we need to make a choice as to the professions we pursue on our characters. Increasing bag space would give us no more options than we currently have, it would just remove the need to make a choice.

Nazon_Katts

Nah, I leveled all professions right from the start. Space all around is not a problem. It's just inconvenient to be on other characters. It doesn't help a bit with limiting professions on a single char. It's just an annoyance with no plausible reason other than gold sink and maybe monetization.

Kulthax

Cogo wrote: »

Leave them alone. It always takes time before kids understand that nagging and getting the same answer will not get them anywhere.

Feel sorry for their sub time though. Could have had fun like I had in cyro just now!

Hello @Cogo‌! I am a new poster here but long time lurker.

I had no idea you actually played the game! You learn something new everyday!

Cogo

Kulthax wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Leave them alone. It always takes time before kids understand that nagging and getting the same answer will not get them anywhere.

Feel sorry for their sub time though. Could have had fun like I had in cyro just now!

Hello @Cogo‌! I am a new poster here but long time lurker.

I had no idea you actually played the game! You learn something new everyday!

Hello sir!

I do play! The game. Interesting that you choose those words, cause most people here who dont like me very much, "grind" and "leveling" the game.

They run circles around me with their 3d Vet 12 or something.

I am on EU server if you wanna say hello. Havnt sleept yet and its 9 am...so Ill go explore somewhere I can find new way to get owned.

mndfreeze

Blackwidow wrote: »

I got a personal response from ZOS_LenaicR.

I don't know if she wants me to post it on the forums. I left a message with her to ask if she will post it or if it is okay for me to.

Well? I am ever so curious now.

AreoHotah

My personal bank is just personaly fine.

Blackwidow

AreoHotah wrote: »

My personal bank is just personaly fine.

I would love for at least one of you to have a counter argument of why banks should not be bigger.

It does not stop us from crafting all the crafts.

It does not stop us from hoarding.

It does make us make hard choices on what to keep and throw away.

It just makes the banking tedious.

It has people quitting the game.

Where is the downside to adding more bank space?

Yajnho

DeLindsay wrote: »

Yet another Waaaambulance tread. Your account bank is upgradable to 240 slots, your personal inventory to 169 slots (including horse) and that's per 8 character. AT roughly the 4 1/2 month mark (from launch), for those dedicated crafters, they will no longer need ANY inventory space for researchable items. It's also been said so many times I've lost count, that there's literally no reason whatsoever to keep all Provision ingredients. There's only roughly a dozen or so that are useful, even less once you're at VR.

ZoS just made (2) Runes useless, there's 2 more spaces. What could you possibly need to hoard that requires more than 240 + 169 + 169 + 169 + 169 + 169 + 169 + 169 + 169 inventory spaces. BTW, that's a total of 1592 inventory spaces. I don't think there is even that many items in the game if you stored 100 (full stack) of every single crafting item, including all raw mats, all refined mats, all runes, all prov ingredients, all trait stones, all upgrade mats, all soul shards empty and full, and 1 of every single trait for research on a fresh toon.

I have seen this argument a lot. The problem is that this assumes every one complaining is veteran level with essentially infinite gold on hand. For those of us with the audacity to not yet be maximum level and try to level crafting while we level up, inventory is a real problem. I don't have the cash to upgrade my main to maximum bag slots, never mind my crafting alts/mules. And bank upgrades are really expensive.

The next counter argument will be "you need gold sinks". That's just dumb. Inventory is expensive, horses are expensive, respec is expensive. When (if) they implement housing you can bet is won't be cheap. Why a game "needs" a gold sink I don't get anyway. If I want to play Scrooge McDuck I should be allowed.

So maybe all these inventory problems work themselves out in end game play, but a lot of us would like to enjoy the MIDDLE of the game, which is very difficult to do when I spend a third of my play time logging in and out of mules to manage inventory. More space should be cheaper ( the easy solution) or the inventory system should be reworked.

Tannakaobi

Sorry, but anyone that defends the current bank/bag function are the very definition of a fanboy.

Clearly it's not good, this should not even be a debate. What purpose does having to spend time juggling items serve? Is it fun? Would the game be better if you had more space?

Eivar

Yajnho wrote: »

Why a game "needs" a gold sink I don't get anyway. If I want to play Scrooge McDuck I should be allowed.

I'm assuming you're more familiar with single player games, so i'll fill ya in.

wikipedia: The intended purpose of gold sinks is to remove currency from the game, as excess currency leads to inflation of player driven prices. Game designers must balance between scarcity of currency and ease of acquiring currency.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_sink

It's mostly useful to keep inflation from driving away new players, who would never afford anything once an economy is established. There are a lot of other factors but that is the main one.

Tulerezzer

ZOS will be changing some of the provisioning recipes in order to "lighten the load". Also, Enchanting is going to be adjusted in a way that sounds like it will reduce the number of runes in game.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=SPhcbELh5Cg

kassandratheclericb14_ESO

Reading over many of these post, I am not sure why a great many of them can not keep to the matter at hand and must spill into personal insults. Because you disagree with someone does not mean you can not be civil. Name calling and digs serve no good purpose. If someone has a bad argument or is not using logic and information to support their argument then go at that...not the person.

In face here is some logical fallacies often used in debates: http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/ENGL1311/fallacies.htm

Now use this information to argue your points...everyone would be the better for it.

Yajnho

Eivar wrote: »

Yajnho wrote: »

Why a game "needs" a gold sink I don't get anyway. If I want to play Scrooge McDuck I should be allowed.

I'm assuming you're more familiar with single player games, so i'll fill ya in.

wikipedia: The intended purpose of gold sinks is to remove currency from the game, as excess currency leads to inflation of player driven prices. Game designers must balance between scarcity of currency and ease of acquiring currency.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_sink

It's mostly useful to keep inflation from driving away new players, who would never afford anything once an economy is established. There are a lot of other factors but that is the main one.

A reasonable point, but ironically this gold sink is having the opposite effect. It's very difficult for new players to afford the space necessary to manage their inventories while established players no longer see it as a problem. Furthermore, it fails at stopping inflation since the players who no longer worry about space no longer "sink" their gold. So if that's the intent it's broken.

I also think the lack of a unified AH will greatly slow inflation and other market manipulation. Notice I said slow not stop. It's the nature of end game to accumulate wealth, and the nature of people to manipulate markets, there will always be a way.

I also realize that you stated no opinion in that post about inventory management, but only educated me by pointing out a utility for high cost "sink items" I had not considered, and I thank you for it.

So let horses, houses and vanity items serve as gold sinks. Stifling inventory management has a counter productive effect if the end goal of a sink is to protect newer players.

badmojo

Blackwidow wrote: »

AreoHotah wrote: »

My personal bank is just personaly fine.

I would love for at least one of you to have a counter argument of why banks should not be bigger.

It does not stop us from crafting all the crafts.

It does not stop us from hoarding.

It does make us make hard choices on what to keep and throw away.

It just makes the banking tedious.

It has people quitting the game.

Where is the downside to adding more bank space?

Have you upgraded your bank all the way Blackwidow?

Would you be opposed to more bank space for more gold sink?

What if they removed the 10 member requirement on the guild bank?

Saying you just want a bigger bank is over simplifying it. You probably want some reduction in gold prices, and increases to starting inventory space.

There are no downsides from more inventory space, but there are plenty of downsides to removing the challenge of a limited inventory mechanic.

Eivar

Yajnho wrote: »

A reasonable point, but ironically this gold sink is having the opposite effect.

It's very difficult for new players to afford the space necessary to manage their inventories while established players no longer see it as a problem. Furthermore, it fails at stopping inflation since the players who no longer worry about space no longer "sink" their gold. So if that's the intent it's broken.

I also think the lack of a unified AH will greatly slow inflation and other market manipulation. Notice I said slow not stop. It's the nature of end game to accumulate wealth, and the nature of people to manipulate markets, there will always be a way.

I also realize that you stated no opinion in that post about inventory management, but only educated me by pointing out a utility for high cost "sink items" I had not considered, and I thank you for it.

So let horses, houses and vanity items serve as gold sinks. Stifling inventory management has a counter productive effect if the end goal of a sink is to protect newer players.[/quote]

Gotta say I disagree about it having the opposite effect, the first 2 - 3 upgrades of both bank and inventory are quite affordable. As far as players who have already bought the space, they already felt the effect by having to pay those fees in the first place, this particular gold sink is part of their whole gold sink plan, not the end all be all thing to control the economy.

I agree about the lack of an Ah slowing inflation overall, and that was the main reason they decided to go with no AH, though I believe I remember there being one in beta, I could be wrong though.

As for my own opinion, I think they need to rework storage space, the shared bank situation while nice, limits how much space you have overall, I have 8/8 characters and 5 of them are mules because of the lack of storage, I lean towards them having an expandable character based bank and an account wide crafting mats storage, perhaps with a small like 10 slot area for item transfers across your account.

Blackwidow

badmojo wrote: »

Have you upgraded your bank all the way Blackwidow?

Yes.

Would you be opposed to more bank space for more gold sink?

No.

What if they removed the 10 member requirement on the guild bank?

Giving everyone their own guild bank is just another way of giving us more personal space, so I would prefer the personal bank.

Saying you just want a bigger bank is over simplifying it. You probably want some reduction in gold prices, and increases to starting inventory space.

No, I want each character to have it's own space for personal storage.

There are no downsides from more inventory space,

Okay.

but there are plenty of downsides to removing the challenge of a limited inventory mechanic.

LOL, what challenge? How is using mules a challenge? You have your own personal guild bank and you use mules.

How are you challenged?

Breg_Magol

pecheckler wrote: »

Do something to fix having to use 6 alternate characters just to store your crafting materials.

The bank should cap at 500 spaces and upgrade costs reduced significantly.

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Mortosk wrote: »

Double available inventory and bank space for starters or add a crafter bank where you can stack 250 of each crafting ingredient without using any bank space.

Give each character access to a personal bank in addition to the shared bank.

Increase stack size to 250.

Get rid of the multiple potions for different levels. If you are V5 you should only get V5 potions from mobs. Not 50, V1 (which is the same thing, jeez), and V5 taking up 3 slots each for magic, health, and stamina. It's lame.

Get rid of different value vendor trash items. Did you know there's different versions of ectoplasm and supple roots (for example) that each take a slot?

Make pets, vanity, Costume, and disguise items quest items or code them so they don't use inventory space. Every other MMO in the last decade has a pet bar and the item vanishes the first time you use it.

Give us access to more than 5 guilds or create a proper auction house.

Add a search box for keywords for crying out loud.

If someone wants to spend the numerous skill points needed to max all professions then they should be able to have the space they need to facilitate it. Currently there's only enough space for one profession. And if that profession is provisioning God help you.

The choice you made to restrict crafters when there is already one in place via the skill points required for each profession was the wrong choice. One of the worst decisions you made and I'm almost positive this has cost you subscriptions. If you want to be a crafter you have to deal with mules and limited space all the time and some people don't have the time or the patience for such a high degree of tedium.

No?

I truly do not want to see them make carbon copy GW2's system, which is exactly what you're suggesting. The limitations are there to force people to make choices so that everyone doesn't become a master at everything.

Also, OP, if we're supposed to search for other threads to explain why you're making this thread, then you probably shouldn't be making this thread, because the subject has been rehashed enough. What do you honestly expect them to do? Come out and say, "I understand you prefer a different inventory system, but this is our design, it's working as intended, and we have no plans to change it."? Clearly, that would just become another talking point that would allow you to continue this completely pointless and rehashed conversation that basically consists of you bitching that they didn't design the game the way you wanted them to do it.

Who died and made you spokesperson for Zenimax?

badmojo

Blackwidow wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Have you upgraded your bank all the way Blackwidow?

Yes.

Would you be opposed to more bank space for more gold sink?

No.

What if they removed the 10 member requirement on the guild bank?

Giving everyone their own guild bank is just another way of giving us more personal space, so I would prefer the personal bank.

Saying you just want a bigger bank is over simplifying it. You probably want some reduction in gold prices, and increases to starting inventory space.

No, I want each character to have it's own space for personal storage.

There are no downsides from more inventory space,

Okay.

but there are plenty of downsides to removing the challenge of a limited inventory mechanic.

LOL, what challenge? How is using mules a challenge? You have your own personal guild bank and you use mules.

How are you challenged?

The challenge is having to do those things before I can earn the near million gold it costs to max out my bank. I don't know why you constantly want to dismiss my opinions because I'm a resourceful player and eliminated the problem for myself.

I'd completely support your increase in bank slots. Maybe even have the option for a personal bank after you've upgraded your bank fully. As long as they're inline with the pricing they already have setup. I don't want to have personal banks on every character, without a huge gold sink.

Blackwidow

badmojo wrote: »

The challenge is having to do those things before I can earn the near million gold it costs to max out my bank.

What things?

I don't know why you constantly want to dismiss my opinions because I'm a resourceful player and eliminated the problem for myself.

How am i dismissing you. I answered everyone of your questions.

How about you actually answer the one I gave you?

I'd completely support your increase in bank slots.

Okay....

Maybe even have the option for a personal bank after you've upgraded your bank fully.

Why after?

Why not add both as an upgrade option?

As long as they're inline with the pricing they already have setup. I don't want to have personal banks on every character, without a huge gold sink.

So, your main concern is to have banks be more expensive?

I don't see why, but that is your opinion.

I don't think banks make a very good gold sink. Gold sinks should be constant throughout the game, IMHO.

Banks make low level players poor and then nothing.

badmojo

Blackwidow wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

The challenge is having to do those things before I can earn the near million gold it costs to max out my bank.

What things?

I don't know why you constantly want to dismiss my opinions because I'm a resourceful player and eliminated the problem for myself.

How am i dismissing you. I answered everyone of your questions.

How about you actually answer the one I gave you?

I'd completely support your increase in bank slots.

Okay....

Maybe even have the option for a personal bank after you've upgraded your bank fully.

Why after?

Why not add both as an upgrade option?

As long as they're inline with the pricing they already have setup. I don't want to have personal banks on every character, without a huge gold sink.

So, your main concern is to have banks be more expensive?

I don't see why, but that is your opinion.

I don't think banks make a very good gold sink. Gold sinks should be constant throughout the game, IMHO.

Banks make low level players poor and then nothing.

Ugh, I write in paragraphs for a reason. I don't need a window into your mind on a sentence by sentence basis. It's hard to reply to broken up thoughts like that. But, I'll give it a try.

First, you asked what things I was talking about having to do before maxing out my bank which costs something like 800k. I was referring to leveling 5 crafting characters at the same time and also setting up a guild and getting enough people to join so that I have a guild bank for addition storage. You know these things well, you constantly bring them up even when they don't apply to the discussion.

Why do I think these 'Personal Banks' should be unlocked after the shared bank we currently have? Because that's the system we have now. Everyone starts with a shared bank access. The price of upgrading and the need to upgrade the shared bank is based on having 8 characters. If you start throwing in personal banks per character that decreases the need of the shared bank, everything would have to be rebalanced.

You see why I said it's a little more complex than saying you just want more inventory space? What would you charge for a mule to increase their bag? Would the personal banks start at 10 slots? Why would a low level/low wealth player upgrade their personal bank instead of their shared bank, or backpack? I just feel like after would work better because this seems like it should be an endgame thing. You give every mule it's own personal bank, it just makes them more beneficial.