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Veteran Content too difficult?
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Don't worry, the complaints will go away when the players who hate VR do .. enjoy the crickets.vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »
Until more options are added or, the differences in the options we have are addressed i don't really see the complaints going away.simple why don't YOU scale the difficulty to suit yourself? you say you enjoy the toughness but then use every method possible to make it easier. my question is why?
why if you like it all tough cos your leet go out your way to make it as easy as you possibly can? isn't that a contridiction?
The difficulty is not the problem with the game. It needs more balance between classes. It needs more meaningful End Game and more levelling options. There are things that if improved will benefit everyone not just a some (and harm others). I'd rather see the devs working on those because that effort will deliver more return to more people.0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Don't worry, the complaints will go away when the players who hate VR do .. enjoy the crickets.vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »
Until more options are added or, the differences in the options we have are addressed i don't really see the complaints going away.simple why don't YOU scale the difficulty to suit yourself? you say you enjoy the toughness but then use every method possible to make it easier. my question is why?
why if you like it all tough cos your leet go out your way to make it as easy as you possibly can? isn't that a contridiction?
The difficulty is not the problem with the game. It needs more balance between classes. It needs more meaningful End Game and more levelling options. There are things that if improved will benefit everyone not just a some (and harm others). I'd rather see the devs working on those because that effort will deliver more return to more people.
We just covered this, the silent masses don't make any noise, that is why they are the silent masses, what else would i hear?0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Don't worry, the complaints will go away when the players who hate VR do .. enjoy the crickets.
Yeah and that would vindicate you completely wouldn't it. I can just imagine all the baying unsubbed hordes slavering at the gates willing the game to fail.
And it might but it wont be the difficulty that kills it. It has far more expansive issues that effect a lot more people than the few who keep posting I these threads.1 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭The game isn't going to fail. It'll settle down into being another minor league MMO with a secure core of dedicated fans who will keep it slowly ticking over for years probably.1
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LariahHunding✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »The game isn't going to fail. It'll settle down into being another minor league MMO with a secure core of dedicated fans who will keep it slowly ticking over for years probably.
Like some in thread, it will end up being a homogeneous "circle of jerkins" left, make each other feel good about how tough each other are."Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
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Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭gougefub17_ESO wrote: »Like some in thread, it will end up being a homogeneous "circle of jerkins" left, make each other feel good about how tough each other are.
Sorry I have flagged this. There is no need for resorting to insults when your argument runs out of options1 -
Animus0724✭✭✭gougefub17_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »The game isn't going to fail. It'll settle down into being another minor league MMO with a secure core of dedicated fans who will keep it slowly ticking over for years probably.
Like some in thread, it will end up being a homogeneous "circle of jerkins" left, make each other feel good about how tough each other are.
Here is a good idea about how much this game will "fail"?
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113632/overall-satisfaction-with-eso/p1
People are liking the game and are overall satisfied with the direction it is going, there are many others outside this forum who are enjoying the game right now as these forums have already built up a reputation for whiny players to *** instead of anything productive or informative
Being dissatisfied and expressing your opinion is ok, but to go as far as to insult the dev team or label those of us who are actually successful in the game as no lifers/fanboys it downright bitching like a ***. Also players are not leaving in drones as you feeble mind might think, vet areas are deserted but Craglorn and cyrodiil sure as hell isn't. I still have 5 active guilds with 150+ players on each guild online everyday at peak hours...
What's that most PvP zones dead? they're all in waba as it has been the designated server favoriteI take pride in being an incredibly smart dumb ass, or an incredibly dumb smart ass, either way I'm awesome.
-The Art Of Warfare (T.A.W.)1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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The silence in the empty zones, similar to what I'm hearing now, actually.vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Don't worry, the complaints will go away when the players who hate VR do .. enjoy the crickets.vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »
Until more options are added or, the differences in the options we have are addressed i don't really see the complaints going away.simple why don't YOU scale the difficulty to suit yourself? you say you enjoy the toughness but then use every method possible to make it easier. my question is why?
why if you like it all tough cos your leet go out your way to make it as easy as you possibly can? isn't that a contridiction?
The difficulty is not the problem with the game. It needs more balance between classes. It needs more meaningful End Game and more levelling options. There are things that if improved will benefit everyone not just a some (and harm others). I'd rather see the devs working on those because that effort will deliver more return to more people.
We just covered this, the silent masses don't make any noise, that is why they are the silent masses, what else would i hear?
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Time was MMOs could do that, their running costs were low, they were mature, had long recovered development costs and generally ran happily with a bit of TLC .. I still play FFXI and that clearly is running on lowish numbers but quite happily and SE still invest in developing it.steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »The game isn't going to fail. It'll settle down into being another minor league MMO with a secure core of dedicated fans who will keep it slowly ticking over for years probably.
Thing is, ESO has huge development costs to recover and the running costs are going to be pretty substantial. The issue is whether the size of the dedicated fans is such to be able to give ZOS corporate overlords the profits they demand.
Just so you understand me, I have 2 x 6 month subs and paid for that time because I really wanted to give ZOS time to fix the game and make it great, instead they pulled the VR bait-and-switch and followed up with group-or-GTFO content in Craglorn and now Crypt of Hearts.
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on June 25, 2014 1:46PM1 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭The game will get another breath of life at the console launch. No doubt this will also attract a lot on PC players too. I know lot of people who have unsubed but intend to come back at the console launch. I think ZOS has conceded that they may have lost that initial influx of fans. Not because it was too difficult but because it was too broken. They seem to have given up on retaining the first wave and are now concentrating on the console launch which in effect will be a relaunch.0
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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So you agree with those that say we're paying to play a beta for the console release.The game will get another breath of life at the console launch. No doubt this will also attract a lot on PC players too. I know lot of people who have unsubed but intend to come back at the console launch. I think ZOS has conceded that they may have lost that initial influx of fans. Not because it was too difficult but because it was too broken. They seem to have given up on retaining the first wave and are now concentrating on the console launch which in effect will be a relaunch.
Nice to see you have some sense of reality along your defense of ZOS behaviour.
Thing is though, amply demonstrated round here is the stereotypical view that console players are kids with an entitlement "I want it NOW" problem .. if that is in fact true then console players are going to hate VR-type content even more than PC players .. methinks the crickets are probably not going to become extinct.Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on June 25, 2014 1:55PM0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
So you agree with those that say we're paying to play a beta for the console release.The game will get another breath of life at the console launch. No doubt this will also attract a lot on PC players too. I know lot of people who have unsubed but intend to come back at the console launch. I think ZOS has conceded that they may have lost that initial influx of fans. Not because it was too difficult but because it was too broken. They seem to have given up on retaining the first wave and are now concentrating on the console launch which in effect will be a relaunch.
Nice to see you have some sense of reality along your defense of ZOS behaviour.
Show me where I have defended ZoS. I have defended the difficulty scaling. Nothing else. Not the vet content, not the poor balance, not the lack of end game, not the bugs, not the poor communication and definitely not the devs.
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steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭gougefub17_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »The game isn't going to fail. It'll settle down into being another minor league MMO with a secure core of dedicated fans who will keep it slowly ticking over for years probably.
Like some in thread, it will end up being a homogeneous "circle of jerkins" left, make each other feel good about how tough each other are.
Maybe but it's their time and money. And it's also true that there are not that many truly hard-core fantasy games around. But I suspect the much more awesome ArcheAge PvP will attract a lot of that market as well.1 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭gougefub17_ESO wrote: »Like some in thread, it will end up being a homogeneous "circle of jerkins" left, make each other feel good about how tough each other are.
Sorry I have flagged this. There is no need for resorting to insults when your argument runs out of options
Oh for goodness sake. That was a tongue in cheek reference to the availability of jerkins to replace dresses for the current tough guy build of the month. Your constant thinly veiled insulting variations on L2P are way more reportable if someone wanted to be that petty.2 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alphashado wrote: »
Multiple sources of circumstantial evidence supports this Hilgara. You have seen it all. You have seen, read, and posted on every thread and poll. You can look at guild rosters. You are well aware of what is happening, yet you insist on clinging on to some fantasy notion that everything is fine. You are a smart person, yet you stand in an earthquake and insist it's the wind blowing the china off the table.
It's hard to even take you seriously.
This reminds me of the Iraqi foreign minister saying there are no tanks in Bagdad, when we could see them behind him on TV.0 -
LariahHunding✭✭✭✭Animus0724 wrote: »gougefub17_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »The game isn't going to fail. It'll settle down into being another minor league MMO with a secure core of dedicated fans who will keep it slowly ticking over for years probably.
Like some in thread, it will end up being a homogeneous "circle of jerkins" left, make each other feel good about how tough each other are.
Here is a good idea about how much this game will "fail"?
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113632/overall-satisfaction-with-eso/p1
People are liking the game and are overall satisfied with the direction it is going, there are many others outside this forum who are enjoying the game right now as these forums have already built up a reputation for whiny players to *** instead of anything productive or informative
Being dissatisfied and expressing your opinion is ok, but to go as far as to insult the dev team or label those of us who are actually successful in the game as no lifers/fanboys it downright bitching like a ***. Also players are not leaving in drones as you feeble mind might think, vet areas are deserted but Craglorn and cyrodiil sure as hell isn't. I still have 5 active guilds with 150+ players on each guild online everyday at peak hours...
What's that most PvP zones dead? they're all in waba as it has been the designated server favorite
Feeble mind. Is that the best you can do. And I think you are lying about the guild numbers. Yes, you are just flat out lying.
Also, what is the purpose of having VR content, if people are going to bypass it. I guess they are bypassing it because it isn't broken.
The problem is that you and others like you want to turn this game into a generic MMO, basically like most others.
Fine, keep it, own it, love it, alone with the other buddies.
"Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
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LariahHunding✭✭✭✭gougefub17_ESO wrote: »Like some in thread, it will end up being a homogeneous "circle of jerkins" left, make each other feel good about how tough each other are.
Sorry I have flagged this. There is no need for resorting to insults when your argument runs out of options
I'm the one that run out of options? Little bit of projection there.
You guys just want to turn this game into a generic MMO where min/maxers and hardcore players reign supreme.
Fine, have it, keep it, love it. Alone.
"Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
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Chuggernaut✭✭✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »My comrades have returned. I erect the spine of gratitude. You are a hero today. - Bura-Natoo0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
So you agree with those that say we're paying to play a beta for the console release.The game will get another breath of life at the console launch. No doubt this will also attract a lot on PC players too. I know lot of people who have unsubed but intend to come back at the console launch. I think ZOS has conceded that they may have lost that initial influx of fans. Not because it was too difficult but because it was too broken. They seem to have given up on retaining the first wave and are now concentrating on the console launch which in effect will be a relaunch.
Nice to see you have some sense of reality along your defense of ZOS behaviour.
Show me where I have defended ZoS. I have defended the difficulty scaling. Nothing else. Not the vet content, not the poor balance, not the lack of end game, not the bugs, not the poor communication and definitely not the devs.
Nobody, certainly not me, has suggested that difficulty is the only reason people are leaving Hilgara. But it is undeniably ONE of the reasons. You seem to embrace all the other reasons, yet refuse to accept that a fair % of subs are being dropped due to difficulty. Even if it is less than 20% of the reason people are leaving, can ESO really afford that 20% in addition to all the reasons you just listed? No.
Reasonable people aren't suggesting ridiculous blanket nerfs, but there needs to be SOMETHING for people to do that find the difficulty boring or tedious or grindy. This issue is JUST AS IMPORTANT as the ones you listed. Just because you and others enjoy it doesn't make it magically enjoyable for a SIGNIFICANT number of paying customers.
Recognizing other issues and conveniently ignoring this one just because you like it will not make it go away or bring back subs.
Edited by Alphashado on June 25, 2014 4:34PM1 -
andyjunction_ESOSoul ShrivenI have to agree with the OP that VR content is too difficult. I play a VR7 NB in full medium with DW/Bow. Also a vampire for the stealthed movement speed passive.
My play style is almost identical to Hilgara with pretty much the same results. Two mobs is an easy fight. I almost always kill both without taking a single hit.
Three mobs requires more thought as well as perfect timing and no mistakes. A single mistake can mean death. A single missed stun can mean death. A momentarily unresponsive skill can mean death. I go through 3-stat crafted pots like candy while fighting groups of three. I still manage to kill all 3 almost every time as long as I do exactly the right thing and as long as the game decides to let me do what I'm trying to.
The problem is they HIT TOO DAMN HARD! I mean ridiculously hard. I'll be at full health and the next thing I know Death's Wind has procced from a single hit and I'm at 20% health.
These are trash mobs, not bosses. But in VR content every pack of bandits or beetles has to be approached almost as if it were the end boss of a group dungeon. It may be exciting but that's not the same as enjoyable.2 -
VrugorSoul ShrivenVR 12 NB vamp using leather armor and DW/Bow and was able to solo a majority of the content in the VR 1-10 zones.
Haven't really done much in Craiglorn since I hit VR12 finishing off the 1-10 zones and pvping. I do agree that some times the trash mobs are harder then the bosses, and the random 1.5k hit from an archer or fire mage is annoying but I adapted and messed with my skills to fix some of the issues I was having.0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There are several ways they could change this while keeping everyone happy. Just as one example:
They could increase the dificulty of public and solo dungeon bosses. (I think most of us agree that they are usually less challenging than the mobs surrounding them). Leave the trash mobs inside public and solo dungeons they way they are, then nerf the mobs outside of these dungeons.
That way people that enjoy more challenging content could still find it in every dungeon in the zone, and people that just want to quest and pick flowers in peace could still do so, and then get a buddy to help with dungeons.
This is just one option. It would not appease everyone 100%, but I think it would be a fair compromise for everyone interested in a healthy player base.Edited by Alphashado on June 25, 2014 4:51PM1 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »There are several ways they could change this while keeping everyone happy. Just as one example:
They could increase the dificulty of public and solo dungeon bosses. (I think most of us agree that they are usually less challenging than the mobs surrounding them). Leave the trash mobs inside public and solo dungeons they way they are, then nerf the mobs outside of these dungeons.
That way people that enjoy more challenging content could still find it in every dungeon in the zone, and people that just want to quest and pick flowers in peace could still do so, and then get a buddy to help with dungeons.
This is just one option. It would not appease everyone 100%, but I think it would be a fair compromise for everyone interested in a healthy player base.
While i don't have a problem with VR content the problem i can see with this is, i don't think most people having problems would be happy with a solution that keeps most of the Shards away from them unless they group up.
Although now that i think about it i guess that isnt any different then it is now anyway.0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
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Very easy to tell, you just go to any vet 3+ zone and check how many people are online at any given time. Granted, you won't be able to get precise numbers, but running around the zone and looking at zone chat will give you a good enough idea.vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »
Until then, the silent masses will just keep leaving.
Or the silent masses keep on staying. It is hard to tell, they are silent after all.
The idea will clearly be hinting the silent masses are not there. In best case, they're all farming Craglorn(now why would they do that when we have such fun and easy vet zones?!), worst case...yeah.
Edited by Magdalina on June 26, 2014 11:01AM1 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭The idea will clearly be hinting the silent masses are not there. In best case, they're all farming Craglorn(now why would they do that when we have such fun and easy vet zones?!), worst case...yeah.
Fun and easy?
Completely missed the point. Its fun because its not easy. Or at least its less boring because its not easy. Fun might be pushing it.1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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No one I suspect would deny that a very skilled and motivated player can do that, fact is most players (like me) aren't at that level of skill. As such, content tuned like that is out of the reach of the vast majority, and that isn't healthy long-term for content that is LEVELING content that has to be done in order to be able to play the new content that's been released and ZOS have said is also coming.VR 12 NB vamp using leather armor and DW/Bow and was able to solo a majority of the content in the VR 1-10 zones. .
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on June 26, 2014 11:23AM0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The idea will clearly be hinting the silent masses are not there. In best case, they're all farming Craglorn(now why would they do that when we have such fun and easy vet zones?!), worst case...yeah.
Fun and easy?
Completely missed the point. Its fun because its not easy. Or at least its less boring because its not easy. Fun might be pushing it.
Forgive me, I thought you were arguing the whole thread it IS easy, you just need to adjust your strategy and then you have no more problem than at lvls 1-50. I must've misread something...or did I?
Besides, you're ignoring the point AGAIN. Vet zones are empty. There, this is the main part here. This is a fact, not my fantasy or speculation. And it clearly shows what "silent masses" think.0 -
j_hobergb16_ESOSoul ShrivenI enjoy VR content. VR6, soon 7. No Craglorn.
I think the single player questing experience is great, and enjoy joining groups when necessary and never have problems forming them.
Play a Nightblade DW/Bow Stamina build.
I think the difficulty is just right. Don't die very often but have to focus on what I am doing.0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Very easy to tell, you just go to any vet 3+ zone and check how many people are online at any given time. Granted, you won't be able to get precise numbers, but running around the zone and looking at zone chat will give you a good enough idea.vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »
Until then, the silent masses will just keep leaving.
Or the silent masses keep on staying. It is hard to tell, they are silent after all.
The idea will clearly be hinting the silent masses are not there. In best case, they're all farming Craglorn(now why would they do that when we have such fun and easy vet zones?!), worst case...yeah.
Perhaps i should have been more clear. As pointed out they are the silent masses. Even if you agree they are quitting since they are silent you have no actual way of knowing why they quit. Assuming they agree with whatever your problem is may not be correct.
Heck just yesterday there were threads saying everyone was quitting because of the nerfs to DKs and one saying everyone was quitting because of the changes to API.
If you don't like something express what you don't like and have a conversation about it, this whole everyone agrees with me thing going on is sort of silly. If you believe no one is playing veteran content, for all you know the silent masses have quit because the veterans levels were to easy.1 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
Forgive me, I thought you were arguing the whole thread it IS easy, you just need to adjust your strategy and then you have no more problem than at lvls 1-50. I must've misread something...or did I?.
With a lot of practice yes you can burn through vet mobs at the same rate. your skill level is higher because it demands more from you than just hack slash or pew pew but it all soon becomes intuitive and you are doing it without thinking about it much.
Besides, you're ignoring the point AGAIN. Vet zones are empty. There, this is the main part here. This is a fact, not my fantasy or speculation. And it clearly shows what "silent masses" think.
And you're ignoring the fact that there are many other valid reasons why people aren't in the vet zones other than the difficulty.
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