Veteran Content too difficult?

Magdalina

Hilgara wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

And I thought Hilgara does NOT like this new kind of difficult?;)

I don't like this change no. But thats because I liked my stun locking rogue. I've been doing a bit of experimenting though and I just have to slot heated blades to make them miss me for 4 seconds until I can stun them again
So all is good.
Biggest problem is you dont know for sure if they are immune until you get the message. Seems very random. It makes it more of a lottery. I prefer winning with skill than luck

Hahaha, I don't agree with your L2P attitude, but I admire your...determination.

I think I asked already, but my memory's failing me on this one:) Remind me, which server/alliance you're playing on?

LariahHunding

Magdalina wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

And I thought Hilgara does NOT like this new kind of difficult?;)

I don't like this change no. But thats because I liked my stun locking rogue. I've been doing a bit of experimenting though and I just have to slot heated blades to make them miss me for 4 seconds until I can stun them again
So all is good.
Biggest problem is you dont know for sure if they are immune until you get the message. Seems very random. It makes it more of a lottery. I prefer winning with skill than luck

Hahaha, I don't agree with your L2P attitude, but I admire your...determination.

I think I asked already, but my memory's failing me on this one:) Remind me, which server/alliance you're playing on?

And, at least he is literate, and knows how to present ideas, even though I don't agree with Hilgara most of the time.

steveb16_ESO46

Hilgara wrote: »

Just to note. The recent change to make mobs immune to repeated CC has NOT been acknowledged as an issue with the last patch. This change makes vet content even more difficult so we have to conclude that ZoS likes difficult.

But doesn't like money.

michael21

^ IT would be so nice if they allowed PVP to have a close to respectable EXP return.

LadyDestiny

Alphashado wrote: »

The crux of the issue isn't that VR is too difficult to complete. If that were the case, these threads would be loaded with people looking for advice. But you aren't seeing that here are you? No.

The issue isn't that people can't do it. So please quit insulting intelligent, experienced gamers by telling them to L2P. Please quit giving intelligent, experienced gamers advice on builds and specs.

Because most people can do it just fine. They just aren't enjoying it because the constant difficulty makes it TEDIOUS and REDUNDANT.

So please stop with the l2p garbage.

Yeah, I would say this is the whole issue right here. Tedius and Redundant. Not minding difficult challenges along the way, but this non stop, from one quest to the next and fighting all the crap in between just to die repeatedly, and having to repair before they can even get to the next objective is just taxing to say the least. There never seems to be any let up, or relaxation. No time to enjoy things because of the constant fear of dying from whatever is going to agro you and your dead in one or two hits because you just stopped to smell the roses so to speak. You know VR content was not so bad prior to Craglorn release and was actually enjoyable. I remember it being more difficult than 1-50 levels, but not so bad it made you run home constantly to repair, recover etc....That patch did a big screw up and mobs have never been the same since. Zos really needs to address this and do something soon. Why do they want a community that is really starting to hate the game? Don't they want their subscribers to be enjoying what they are doing? The majority of the player base is more casual than elitists I believe, and they can still balance it out to make most everyone happy, They just won't because I don't think they even care anymore. First they tell us that they screwed up on the difficulty, then they tell us they were going to patch it back to the original way it was prior to Craglorn. Well, we all know how that ended up don't we? They sure had time to beef up the Craglorn mobs in Tuesdays patch, so why couldn't they fix VR 1-10 mobs? They have numerous threads going on about this, and people are saying they are not enjoying ESO anymore because of it. Gee, if it was my company, I sure would be catering to the ones paying the subs and would play long term instead of the ones wanting to play "OP min/maxer, I can do it all all by myself cause I am so leet and you should LTP, Gee aren't I special?" and on and on... Well you get my point. and then they end up quitting because they ran out of content.....just saying

kitsinni

Hilgara wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

It really doesn't matter if some people don't find it hard, or if some people found ways to get through it. What matters is for a lot of people it is not fun. At the end of the day if your game doesn't appeal to casuals it fails and VR content just doesn't. Hardcore MMO fans jump ship faster than the people on the Titanic. They are not what keeps a game going.

Not sure I agree there. The truly hardcore players become very invested in their characters. I was in a hardcore raiding guild in WoW and there were some very dedicated players. In EvE online they were even worse. You were expected to take a day off work if someone invaded your space. The infamous Red Pen message.

EVE is probably an exception to the rule. WoW on the other hand would not be nearly as much of a success if not for appealing to casuals. There are quite a few hardcore raiders in WoW but every expansion seems to move the game towards more casual friendly.

Zhoyzu

Somebthings are out of proportion when a healer boss templar thing heals to full before your able to interrupt the cast. Its just really stupid and annoying. Vet zones are empty so grouping is out of the question

kitsinni

You seem to want to say that people think it is boring not difficult, but i'm not so sure there is a big difference. I think anyone could eventually crawl their way through VR content so that would apparently make it "not difficult just boring". It may take 4 months for someone but everyone could eventually do it.

Even take your examples of combat, it is pretty slow and those are not the most difficult pulls. I'm not trying to say you suck or anything so lets not get off track, just saying even in your examples it is a very slow pace. If it takes a casual three weeks to get a VR level and they say it is to difficult that doesn't mean they can't kill anything, just the time to level is not worth the investment. I could argue that your examples prove it is to difficult. A minute for 1/5000th of a level of xp is to difficult not because it is hard to do but because it should be a lot easier to gain 1/5000th of a level of experience than a minute of fighting that wipes out half your resources and you have to have an offhand to heal buff before the fight.

Some people are going to be better than others that is just obvious.

Hilgara

Magdalina wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

And I thought Hilgara does NOT like this new kind of difficult?;)

I don't like this change no. But thats because I liked my stun locking rogue. I've been doing a bit of experimenting though and I just have to slot heated blades to make them miss me for 4 seconds until I can stun them again
So all is good.
Biggest problem is you dont know for sure if they are immune until you get the message. Seems very random. It makes it more of a lottery. I prefer winning with skill than luck

Hahaha, I don't agree with your L2P attitude, but I admire your...determination.

I think I asked already, but my memory's failing me on this one:) Remind me, which server/alliance you're playing on?

EU. And you will be hard pushed to find a post where I have said L2P. My point has always been that by reducing the difficulty you will be harming some while helping others. There are alternatives.

Hilgara

kitsinni wrote: »

You seem to want to say that people think it is boring not difficult, but i'm not so sure there is a big difference. I think anyone could eventually crawl their way through VR content so that would apparently make it "not difficult just boring". It may take 4 months for someone but everyone could eventually do it.

Even take your examples of combat, it is pretty slow and those are not the most difficult pulls. I'm not trying to say you suck or anything so lets not get off track, just saying even in your examples it is a very slow pace. If it takes a casual three weeks to get a VR level and they say it is to difficult that doesn't mean they can't kill anything, just the time to level is not worth the investment. I could argue that your examples prove it is to difficult. A minute for 1/5000th of a level of xp is to difficult not because it is hard to do but because it should be a lot easier to gain 1/5000th of a level of experience than a minute of fighting that wipes out half your resources and you have to have an offhand to heal buff before the fight.

Some people are going to be better than others that is just obvious.

Again a matter of taste. I like games that take a long time to reach your goal. I loved Egosofts X series because it took a lifetime to get that empire that you imagined having at the start of the game. V12 should mean something. It should be a badge of skill and patients. Seeing someone at vet 12 should let people know that you have spent a long time overcoming overwhelming odds. Unfortunately they messed it up with the exploits.

As I said, a matter of taste and I completely accept not everyone would like that. There should be alternatives for levelling that give you different accolades. still achieve the same stats but distinguished from those that stuck with it.

Hilgara

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

And, at least he is literate, and knows how to present ideas, even though I don't agree with Hilgara most of the time.

Thank you....i think

Ragnar_Lodbrok

I want all of you to realize, those of you defending the un-godly difficulty, that VRs are driving off players. So if you want this game going free to play, keep blindly defending it. Its not a L2P issue, unless you think we are all *** who cant figure out to play a freaking game. But go ahead defend it, when it goes f2p you guys will *** and leave and the rest of those who left will come back to a more acceptible VR difficulty.

Animus0724

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

I want all of you to realize, those of you defending the un-godly difficulty, that VRs are driving off players. So if you want this game going free to play, keep blindly defending it. Its not a L2P issue, unless you think we are all *** who cant figure out to play a freaking game. But go ahead defend it, when it goes f2p you guys will *** and leave and the rest of those who left will come back to a more acceptible VR difficulty.

un-godly difficulty? or unskilled players? Lazy gaming is looked down upon here in the MMO world, since this is your first MMO I will let this slide one time...

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Hilgara wrote: »

V12 should mean something. It should be a badge of skill and patients. Seeing someone at vet 12 should let people know that you have spent a long time overcoming overwhelming odds.

Why should anyone care what anyone else has done (or not) in a video game?

Why do 'bragging rights' matter in a video game?

Hilgara

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Why do 'bragging rights' matter in a video game?

Oh boy, bragging rights is why MMO video games exist!

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Hilgara wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Why do 'bragging rights' matter in a video game?

Oh boy, bragging rights is why MMO video games exist!

Really?

I play games for fun, to amuse myself and in the case of MMOs to socialise with friends, I don't care less what anyone else thinks about what I do or have and I don't feel the need to try to look special.

Do you?

Hilgara

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Why do 'bragging rights' matter in a video game?

Oh boy, bragging rights is why MMO video games exist!

Really?

I play games for fun, to amuse myself and in the case of MMOs to socialise with friends, I don't care less what anyone else thinks about what I do or have and I don't feel the need to try to look special.

Do you?

Yep, I come here to be a hero. I make no apologies and am not the slightest bit embarrassed about saying it. These games are a release. They pander to our desire to be super heros in a saga of our own making. I can go to the pub and socialise or just chat on Skype. if this was just a virtual bar how many customers do you think it would attract?

For most its a place of fantasy and beating a challenge.

KrisButtar

This is not my 1st MMO, I have something like 20 days left in my sub and I re rolled a new player because VR is too difficult. I could do it but the fun is completely removed because of the difficulty. I enjoy a challenge but when I feel its just better to run through the area spamming soul gems something is wrong.

I like hard games and I'm not talking about dropping VR down to easy but I do think it needs to be dropped for the over world and increased in dungeons when I can farm dungeons easier than just walking to my next quest location.

Serkillalot

KrisButtar wrote: »

This is not my 1st MMO, I have something like 20 days left in my sub and I re rolled a new player because VR is too difficult. I could do it but the fun is completely removed because of the difficulty. I enjoy a challenge but when I feel its just better to run through the area spamming soul gems something is wrong.

I like hard games and I'm not talking about dropping VR down to easy but I do think it needs to be dropped for the over world and increased in dungeons when I can farm dungeons easier than just walking to my next quest location.

I'm thinking about doing the same thing I've been stuck at vr2 for 5 weeks, and I'm awfully bored off Bing killed in 4 hits or less by a major boss

hamon

Hilgara wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Why do 'bragging rights' matter in a video game?

Oh boy, bragging rights is why MMO video games exist!

no bragging rights in video games have only ever appealled to folk who need validation for the amount of time they put in. they devote unhealthy amounts of time to a game and need to feel special about it. For folk who have a balanced RL the need for validation in a virtual world simply doesnt exist.

In RL my son telling me i'm a good dad wins over anything a game could give me in terms of validating my choices.

hamon

Hilgara wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Why do 'bragging rights' matter in a video game?

Oh boy, bragging rights is why MMO video games exist!

Really?

I play games for fun, to amuse myself and in the case of MMOs to socialise with friends, I don't care less what anyone else thinks about what I do or have and I don't feel the need to try to look special.

Do you?

Yep, I come here to be a hero. I make no apologies and am not the slightest bit embarrassed about saying it. These games are a release. They pander to our desire to be super heros in a saga of our own making. I can go to the pub and socialise or just chat on Skype. if this was just a virtual bar how many customers do you think it would attract?

For most its a place of fantasy and beating a challenge.

your very quick to jump on anyone who seems to want to speak for the masses yet freely do just that. i think you might find for most gaming is simply a way to relax and spend some free time. nothing more nothing less.

If you can wrap your head around that you might better understand those who just want some relaxing fun in their well earned downtime. Not a second job complete with menial tasks, or a vehicle to validate their own self worth.

Serkillalot

Hilgara wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Why do 'bragging rights' matter in a video game?

Oh boy, bragging rights is why MMO video games exist!

no offense

everytime I hear somebody is playing just for bragging rights I like to think of them the asses I've ever met, cuz they go around thinking that they can kick anybody's butt but then you change games it turns out they suck and other games. My roommates like that! He can kick my butt at hockey, Super Smash Bros and a couple other games because he's a god at those games, but what it is to change the game to call of duty, halo any other racing game and I'll kick his butt every time.

Im not really the religious type but there's an old saying (all those that take up the sword get struck down by it) even know its just a game it still applies.

so keep that in mind when somebody bests you at at your own game

[/quote]

Yep, I come here to be a hero. I make no apologies and am not the slightest bit embarrassed about saying it. These games are a release. They pander to our desire to be super heros in a saga of our own making. I can go to the pub and socialise or just chat on Skype. if this was just a virtual bar how many customers do you think it would attract?

For most its a place of fantasy and beating a challenge.

[/quote]

your right about the desired part from there is guilds /clans that sit there and do nothing but BS and argue I find them to be most annoying.

Serkillalot

not saying that all guilds /clans do that of course.

KrisButtar

Serkillalot wrote: »

KrisButtar wrote: »

This is not my 1st MMO, I have something like 20 days left in my sub and I re rolled a new player because VR is too difficult. I could do it but the fun is completely removed because of the difficulty. I enjoy a challenge but when I feel its just better to run through the area spamming soul gems something is wrong.

I like hard games and I'm not talking about dropping VR down to easy but I do think it needs to be dropped for the over world and increased in dungeons when I can farm dungeons easier than just walking to my next quest location.

I'm thinking about doing the same thing I've been stuck at vr2 for 5 weeks, and I'm awfully bored off Bing killed in 4 hits or less by a major boss

I don't even sign in everyday to feed my horse. VR level just killed my motivation. I check the forums daily to see if anything has changed in VR content, until my sub runs out. I only have a single friend left still playing the game, the rest quit when they hit VR. I actually am disappointed as we all wanted to play this game for the long haul as Elder Scrolls is our favorite franchise, at least Destiny releases in Sept. Its ZOS's move to get us to come back or Bethesda to release the next TES. We want our TES fix and VR levels are just killing it.

kitsinni

Hilgara wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

You seem to want to say that people think it is boring not difficult, but i'm not so sure there is a big difference. I think anyone could eventually crawl their way through VR content so that would apparently make it "not difficult just boring". It may take 4 months for someone but everyone could eventually do it.

Even take your examples of combat, it is pretty slow and those are not the most difficult pulls. I'm not trying to say you suck or anything so lets not get off track, just saying even in your examples it is a very slow pace. If it takes a casual three weeks to get a VR level and they say it is to difficult that doesn't mean they can't kill anything, just the time to level is not worth the investment. I could argue that your examples prove it is to difficult. A minute for 1/5000th of a level of xp is to difficult not because it is hard to do but because it should be a lot easier to gain 1/5000th of a level of experience than a minute of fighting that wipes out half your resources and you have to have an offhand to heal buff before the fight.

Some people are going to be better than others that is just obvious.

Again a matter of taste. I like games that take a long time to reach your goal. I loved Egosofts X series because it took a lifetime to get that empire that you imagined having at the start of the game. V12 should mean something. It should be a badge of skill and patients. Seeing someone at vet 12 should let people know that you have spent a long time overcoming overwhelming odds. Unfortunately they messed it up with the exploits.

As I said, a matter of taste and I completely accept not everyone would like that. There should be alternatives for levelling that give you different accolades. still achieve the same stats but distinguished from those that stuck with it.

That is the thing it doesn't take long to get VR12. It only takes time if you want to go through the VR zones and even then only if you are soloing it. The first time I did it I did it with a partner and it was very easy and very fast. You can go from VR1-12 in a weekend just going to Craglorn and grinding. It seems like the only ones who are penalized are the people who don't have others at the same stage as them that want to do the quest versions.

I remember when DAOC launched it took years to reach level cap. The truth is games are just not like that anymore. Being level cap isn't a "badge" if you can do it in a weekend. It also isn't really a "badge" when you can get a group to steamroll even the questing content. The badge is for soloing through it and no one sees that badge its just V12 next to your name.

My first guy I did cadwell's gold, every dolmen, every world boss, got every skyshard in the game and did every group achievement in public dungeons.

On my second guy I tried to find people to quest in VR1 zone . . ghost town but managed to find people for the dolmen and world bosses, VR2 couldn't even get a person to show up at a dolmen for 45 minutes of spamming finally managed to two man it when one person took sympathy on me.

Then I said screw it I have enough skill points on my first guy to do all the crafts and the spec I want and went to craglorn and went from V2-V7 in less time than it took to finish the VR1 zone solo.

Serkillalot

Again a matter of taste. I like games that take a long time to reach your goal. I loved Egosofts X series because it took a lifetime to get that empire that you imagined having at the start of the game. V12 should mean something. It should be a badge of skill and patients. Seeing someone at vet 12 should let people know that you have spent a long time overcoming overwhelming odds.
[/quote]

unfortunately v12 doesn't mean anything for all we know you could've had 8 friends aiding you the entire way. I personally think that veteran level should only be achieved through versing.

not saying that's the case

Serkillalot

whoops looks like I deleted the (/quote) it the top. it was earlier comment

wllstrt75b14_ESO

Hilgara wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

You seem to want to say that people think it is boring not difficult, but i'm not so sure there is a big difference. I think anyone could eventually crawl their way through VR content so that would apparently make it "not difficult just boring". It may take 4 months for someone but everyone could eventually do it.

Even take your examples of combat, it is pretty slow and those are not the most difficult pulls. I'm not trying to say you suck or anything so lets not get off track, just saying even in your examples it is a very slow pace. If it takes a casual three weeks to get a VR level and they say it is to difficult that doesn't mean they can't kill anything, just the time to level is not worth the investment. I could argue that your examples prove it is to difficult. A minute for 1/5000th of a level of xp is to difficult not because it is hard to do but because it should be a lot easier to gain 1/5000th of a level of experience than a minute of fighting that wipes out half your resources and you have to have an offhand to heal buff before the fight.

Some people are going to be better than others that is just obvious.

Again a matter of taste. I like games that take a long time to reach your goal. I loved Egosofts X series because it took a lifetime to get that empire that you imagined having at the start of the game. V12 should mean something. It should be a badge of skill and patients. Seeing someone at vet 12 should let people know that you have spent a long time overcoming overwhelming odds. Unfortunately they messed it up with the exploits.

As I said, a matter of taste and I completely accept not everyone would like that. There should be alternatives for levelling that give you different accolades. still achieve the same stats but distinguished from those that stuck with it.

I would agree that getting to v12 or v14 should mean something if half the folks at v12 didnt use exploits to get there so quickly while the rest struggle getting through vet content.

But as the exploits were well exploited with no repercussions then fixed so others could not use them that just makes the vet area grind so much less appealing.

kitsinni

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

You seem to want to say that people think it is boring not difficult, but i'm not so sure there is a big difference. I think anyone could eventually crawl their way through VR content so that would apparently make it "not difficult just boring". It may take 4 months for someone but everyone could eventually do it.

Even take your examples of combat, it is pretty slow and those are not the most difficult pulls. I'm not trying to say you suck or anything so lets not get off track, just saying even in your examples it is a very slow pace. If it takes a casual three weeks to get a VR level and they say it is to difficult that doesn't mean they can't kill anything, just the time to level is not worth the investment. I could argue that your examples prove it is to difficult. A minute for 1/5000th of a level of xp is to difficult not because it is hard to do but because it should be a lot easier to gain 1/5000th of a level of experience than a minute of fighting that wipes out half your resources and you have to have an offhand to heal buff before the fight.

Some people are going to be better than others that is just obvious.

Again a matter of taste. I like games that take a long time to reach your goal. I loved Egosofts X series because it took a lifetime to get that empire that you imagined having at the start of the game. V12 should mean something. It should be a badge of skill and patients. Seeing someone at vet 12 should let people know that you have spent a long time overcoming overwhelming odds. Unfortunately they messed it up with the exploits.

As I said, a matter of taste and I completely accept not everyone would like that. There should be alternatives for levelling that give you different accolades. still achieve the same stats but distinguished from those that stuck with it.

I would agree that getting to v12 or v14 should mean something if half the folks at v12 didnt use exploits to get there so quickly while the rest struggle getting through vet content.

But as the exploits were well exploited with no repercussions then fixed so others could not use them that just makes the vet area grind so much less appealing.

Grinding Craglorn is not an exploit. They are not patching it, have no plans to change it and the devs are comfortable with this. Basically the VR zone grind is only if you want the extra skill points othewise they are totally OK with you grinding it out. Plan to see more of this as VR levels rise.

Hilgara

kitsinni wrote: »

Grinding Craglorn is not an exploit. They are not patching it, have no plans to change it and the devs are comfortable with this. Basically the VR zone grind is only if you want the extra skill points othewise they are totally OK with you grinding it out. Plan to see more of this as VR levels rise.

On my NB I'm in a different faction to the rest of my guild. I could probably find an AD guild but I have the slots all filled with trading guilds and to be honest I quite like having the excuse for not joining guild event I have soloed everything that was solo content and even managed a few that were designed to be group content but on this character I have almost never grouped. I even try to avoid the zerg in public dungeons. I'd rather do them at my own pace my way even if it means the odd death. I will have the satisfaction of knowing I did the job alone but I can see me running out of soloable content around v10 so that only leaves Cyrodil repeatables to go the rest of the way. The XP reward for vet content should have been scaled to allow you to hit vet12 by the end of it. Then Craglorn would have been optional.