Veteran Content too difficult?

martinhpb16_ESO

Skjlvald wrote: »

I'm constantly getting facerolled in vet areas. I mostly just level alts these days. I don't have the necessary skill to make it through the vet content I don't think, but I love the game. I really don't know what im going to do....

Have you tried doing the dolmens / dungeons / world bosses in each zone first. Ive pretty much found 3-4 people in less than 10 mins to do all of those with in each zone. Once you have done that you should have levelled enough to go back and the quests should be easier. I'm only sticking the Almanac quests too.

Even if I do a zone solo I make a call out in zone chat for a dolmen or world boss and people come in 5 mins.

have you upgraded your build lately or tried new skills. There are a few survival skills in your skill-bank you may not have used yet. The circle of protection one in fighters guild can be quite useful.

Also getting some jewellry with crafted enchantments for more health/mitigations/ or armour depending on your build can help a lot.

Aslo do yo swap gear or skills for different fights? that can help

I have survived difficult boss fights as a NB by just spamming a self heal and stacking magica with circle of protection on, which is a completly different to how I play usually.

Public dungeons can be hard so I always hang around til someone else turns up.

Hilgara

hamon wrote: »

character progression, both horizontal or vertical has absolutely nothing to do with how you go about killing stuff. nothing what-so-ever.

vertical = you need x level to use this equipment/enter this dungeon and by going up in levels you out level content .

horizontal= you progress your char in terms of available options. morphs or fluff but not gain in power or access gated content.

where in that does it even come close to addressing how you go about killing stuff?

I don't see were you think I have a different definition to you. How you have described vertical progression is = to 1 to 50 in ESO but things start to swing to horizontal progression after that.
To remain competitive you have to evolve tactics that make use of stuff like morphs, buffs etc. You may be given more options but not necessarily more powerful options. Advancing is more reliant on you being smarter not tougher . This is what horizontal progression is all about. You have to make the best out of the available options and you may have more options but you wont simply be more powerful. How does that NOT influence how you go about killing stuff?

hamon wrote: »

but since your now adding your own definitions (diagonal progression) i would say this is still wrong i would say its more like vertical regression

your character is still levelling vertically ( IE you need to hit the next vet lvl to equip next tier of equipment) but you regress in terms of how powerfull you are even with the new equipment against same level mobs.
where you are still gaining power is PVP and thats what upsets folk as well. cos you are forced to do the levelling up to remain competative in pvp while feeling your character is regressing in pve terms.

have you been one on one in PvP, the difference between mid level vet and vet 12 is tiny and since a lot of PvP is group content anyway its just a clusterfk of AOE spamming so level means little.

If all these people want to play PvP then why don't they level in PvP. If that's the mode of game they enjoy then surely its better to level there? or maybe their ego wont accept that they might get their arse handed to them not because they aren't levelled enough but because they aren't skilled enough.

I bet all the serious PvP'ers who hit cyrodil at level 10 and learned their craft there while also levelling their character (and dying a hell of a lot) really look forward to all these pseudo PvPers who hit cyrodil with a proud vet 12 label and not an ounce of PvP skill.

stop complaing about vet PvE if you want to PvP. Just go PvP!

martinhpb16_ESO

Magdalina wrote: »

L2P? Working as intended? People like it? What on Tamriel are you talking about?! I'm in vet 8 EP zone now(NA server), and I swear there's 10 people in entire zone at the very highest. Normally it's like 0. I can call for help at bosses for hours before someone answers. I have the whole zone chat ALL to myself, with not seeing a word from another there for hours. You think THAT is working as intended?

I don't want EVERY encounter to be the challenge. I don't want to get wiped just because I didn't notice those 2 thunderbugs camping a piece of wood. I don't want to carefully sneak to that one flower, checking the place for enemies so I actually survive long enough to pick it. Challenge? Good. Put it in dungeons. Put it in public dungeons(I have an odd suspicion publics actually have non buffed trash in. Because yesterday me and another person could duo through hoards of them rather easily there, like 20 per pull. But out in the wilderness? Uh huh), in caves, if nowhere else(which bosses are pushovers atm. Hit less then trash). At anchors(buffed anchors are FUN!). Put it in Craglorn, because Crag is supposed to be for groups - yet I can easier solo a pack of 6-7 trash in Crag than a pack of 3 in Greenshade. Do NOT put this challenge at every corner of the world I actually want to casually explore. This is not fun any more.

And I'm still staying, yes, because I'm stubborn and still interested in questing. But a lot of it just isn't fun any more.

Are you seriously getting pwned by 2 bugs at vet 8?

Really, honestly, seriously?

You know you don't actually have to fight them you can run off.

You must be playing a different game to me, I run around all over the place and if I do manage a bad pull, say 3+ mobs I just run them off.

I have never, not once, not been able to pick a flower because it was camped by some sort of legendary titan.

Animus0724

Hilgara wrote: »

I bet all the serious PvP'ers who hit cyrodil at level 10 and learned their craft there while also levelling their character (and dying a hell of a lot) really look forward to all these pseudo PvPers who hit cyrodil with a proud vet 12 label and not an nouce of PvP skill.

stop complaing about vet PvE if you want to PvP. Just go PvP!

^This...this sums up alot

steveb16_ESO46

Animus0724 wrote: »

and on another note YOU DON"T KNOW GRIND UNTIL YOU PLAYED A KOREAN MMO...VR is cakewalk in comparison

You'll have to excuse the lack of CAPS but I play ArcheAge and it's way less grindy than ESO simply because there is so many different things to do.

Animus0724

KEYBOARD BROKE, CAP BUTTON STUCK, CAN'T FIX HALP...JUST ANOTHER ID-10-T PROBLEM I ASSUME...

steveb16_ESO46

Animus0724 wrote: »

Altan wrote: »

I've been playing MMOs since dial up modems - VR content is too difficult on trash mob groups. I'm not alone in thinking that and I've always been subscribing to at least one MMO every month since 2001 if you need me to qualify my opinion.

If you really are that bad then at MMOs, i suggest looking into another genre of games. If you truly are a MMO vet, you would appreciate the challenge then sir and not expect to face roll everything.

Wait - this just in.

Zenimax accountants say 'stop telling people to go away. We like having customers, or at least their money.'

kitsinni

I think vet levels were OK if you had people to level with .. well at least passed the first couple vet levels. Now after craglorn with every vet area being a ghost town and having to basically solo everything you do they are really stupid.

If you want to skip a lot of skillpoints, dolmen etc and never see the V6-10 area it is easier than ever to just go to crag and join a grind zerg.

steveb16_ESO46

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I completely, wholeheartedly disagree with this. If we never died from trash it would become completely mundane content.

Are you seriously saying that you would prefer to faceroll content rather than ever die?

If you cannot debate without your collection of strawmen then just keep quiet.

martinhpb16_ESO

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I completely, wholeheartedly disagree with this. If we never died from trash it would become completely mundane content.

Are you seriously saying that you would prefer to faceroll content rather than ever die?

If you cannot debate without your collection of strawmen then just keep quiet.

Sorry I'm not sure what that means can you explain for me please? thanks

martinhpb16_ESO

Animus0724 wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I completely, wholeheartedly disagree with this. If we never died from trash it would become completely mundane content.

Are you seriously saying that you would prefer to faceroll content rather than ever die?

If you cannot debate without your collection of strawmen then just keep quiet.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Well seeing as you are not willing to explain in anything except insults I'll rephrase my points as there must of been something in there you found disagreeable.

So based on your earlier post:

I'm sorry but I disagree with this. For me if we never died from open world mobs it would make the game less enjoyable and boring.

Just to clarify are you really saying that you would prefer the difficulty level of the game to be that players never died from open world mobs?

For me this would make the game not worth playing.

Thanks

steveb16_ESO46

Animus0724 wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I completely, wholeheartedly disagree with this. If we never died from trash it would become completely mundane content.

Are you seriously saying that you would prefer to faceroll content rather than ever die?

If you cannot debate without your collection of strawmen then just keep quiet.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

I'm sure whatever you said is both highly amusing and highly pertinent on your home planet.

And just for the general record, not amimed at anyone in particular.

The only alternative to 'too difficult' is not just 'faceroll'.
The only alternative to 'getting killed too much' is not 'never dying'.

People who think like that are either trolling or not equipped for the Hawking level intellectual cut and thrust of talking about computer games and should probably keep out of it to avoid looking like idiots.

eaton68_ESO

I'm probably a below average player with regards to having skill. I'm unable to track three mobs at the same time to avoid everything. My reflexes are slow. I'm confused by game tool tips. I can't seem to grasp how things in game work in conjunction with each other (having X skill and X weapon means I should be using X enchant and X gear with X type of jewelry). I am physically limited using a keyboard and mouse.

I have a med. armor, bow/two handed, heavy stamina based, NB currently retired at the start of VR 5 content.

In my experience, I did not find the VR content too hard or too boring (I liked the new areas of story and quests). I did, however, find the VR content too tedious due to combat. It began to feel like a job with every pull...I certainly don't want to have to strategize nearly every pull of trash mobs. I think my character started developing ptsd. 8-)

What have I gleaned from my experience, relating to content being too easy/hard, so far? Early content to VR content is like training for the Olympics by playing on the high school C squad. Way too much difference from 1-49 content to VR content.

Now, I really like this game and would love to see everyone stay. I have only the suggestion of what worked for me, which is to find someone like minded to duo the content that you are unable to solo. I don't claim this is a right or wrong answer to the problem, just a suggestion of what worked for me. I am now having a relaxing time and having hella fun on a poorly designed DK, with my new found friend, until he reaches VR5 and I'm back on my NB with him.

Animus0724

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Animus0724 wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I completely, wholeheartedly disagree with this. If we never died from trash it would become completely mundane content.

Are you seriously saying that you would prefer to faceroll content rather than ever die?

If you cannot debate without your collection of strawmen then just keep quiet.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Well seeing as you are not willing to explain in anything except insults I'll rephrase my points as there must of been something in there you found disagreeable.

So based on your earlier post:

I'm sorry but I disagree with this. For me if we never died from open world mobs it would make the game less enjoyable and boring.

Just to clarify are you really saying that you would prefer the difficulty level of the game to be that players never died from open world mobs?

For me this would make the game not worth playing.

Thanks

What????

Animus0724

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Animus0724 wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I completely, wholeheartedly disagree with this. If we never died from trash it would become completely mundane content.

Are you seriously saying that you would prefer to faceroll content rather than ever die?

If you cannot debate without your collection of strawmen then just keep quiet.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

I'm sure whatever you said is both highly amusing and highly pertinent on your home planet.

And just for the general record, not amimed at anyone in particular.

The only alternative to 'too difficult' is not just 'faceroll'.
The only alternative to 'getting killed too much' is not 'never dying'.

People who think like that are either trolling or not equipped for the Hawking level intellectual cut and thrust of talking about computer games and should probably keep out of it to avoid looking like idiots.

Indeed

LonePirate

KariTR wrote: »

The biggest problem is player mindset (what's new?).

Content has to support solo players, pairs, larger groups and ESO does all this with ease. When on my own, I avoid groups of three generally. I may have a pop at them if my ultimate is ready or there is no caster among them, but who in their right mind thinks they should come out of a 3vs1 fight unscathed?

If you're on your own avoid groups of three. Stealth, a skill all classes can utilise, is there for a reason. Don't take on mobs designed for 2+ players and then complain because you bought the farm.

I don't understand why players persist in knocking their heads against a brick wall instead of climbing over, I really don't.

I read posts like this and I wonder if this person actually plays the game. There are dozens of quests where three mobs surround or protect a quest objective. You are not going to sneak past them and you cannot avoid them or else you cannot complete the quest. There are no skills which do massive amounts of damage to multiple targets from a ranged distance so you are forced to deal a little damage to all of them or a larger amount to a single target. Either way, as soon as you attack, all three usually spread out which prevents you from using CC on them all. Then they start attacking you.

Each one is capable of an attack that takes away one third or more of your health immediately. Block and interrupt those attacks you say? Sure, I can interrupt one and set up a block but I cannot interrupt all three at once and I will eventually run out of stamina if I do nothing but block because their attacks are seldom synchronized and there is never enough of a cool down on them for me to get in an attack that kills them in only 2-3 rotations. Also, do you think that trio of mobs will stop attacking when I can no longer block once my stamina is gone? Or have you uncovered some secret tactic that allows you to simultaneously attack and block/interrupt/dodge multiple targets? Now add one or sometimes two healers who are capable of 100% instant heals (well 100% in less than 2 seconds) and this situation is even more problematic.

Instead of screaming that people need to L2P (as if making it to VR content doesn't require learning how to defeat Mannimarco or Molag Bal), how about explaining to players your techniques for defeating these mob trios? How about a lot less false machismo and bravado and a lot more information and knowledge sharing?

I play a DK and I am currently working on the Cadwell's Gold quests in the second Veteran alliance. Solo, non-elite mobs cause me no headaches. Pairs of mobs are usually easy barring lag or a button misfire. Trios - especially ones that randomly spawn a fourth creature during the battle - are an entirely different story. I start with Focused Aim on the main target after dropping Volcanic Ruin between them and me. I keep targeting the main with rapid light attacks from my bow until I am close enough to deploy my talons. I will pop Annulment or Immovable and usually my Razor Armor as I switch to my Destro staff to spam Fire Ring in between blocking. Guess what? I still die a lot. I can usually take down the main target but there is often at least one target remaining so I do it all over again.

Then I move on to the next trio, as it is common for there to be 8-10 of these trios between me and my final objective. By the time I reach the boss, especially if he is in a delve, my armor is 50% at best and I need to hope my Ultimate is ready as I am exhausted by this point and 15-30 minutes or more have passed for a single, run of the mill quest. There is no one in the zone doing the same quest so I can't call out for help or wait for someone to come along.

If people enjoy the Veteran content and its absurd difficulty, then great. I am glad ZOS is making someone happy because they are simply angering and alienating far more people than they are pleasing with the Veteran content. Like I have said before, VR mobs need nerfed by 25-50% and bosses should be buffed 10-20%.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Hilgara wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Are there enough players who think like you to keep the lights on? Maybe.

As i've said - I think Zenimax are explicitly aiming the game at people like you because they think so as well.

Zeni can see the numbers. We can't. They no doubt had a target for retained subs. They can see who is playing and where they play. They can compare the pure numbers to the noise on the forum and distinguish between the hyperbole and the facts. I'm no programmer but considering some of the complicated stuff they are having to change I would have thought that tweaking the difficulty wouldn't be that much of a problem. After all following the craglorn patch there was a hotfix to rebalance difficulty after they admitted something went wrong.
With all this in mind you can only conclude that the difficulty level we have now is intended.

And before anyone yelps about the trash mobs having more health than the bosses. Show me numbers. This might have been the case directly following craglorn but I personally have never seen this in game.

I'm not so sure that tweaking the difficulty is that easy for them. It's certainly a lot more involved than tweaking tooltips, and they've taken their sweet time about that. But there is more too it than just altering the coefficients on mob health/damage because pack size/density is part of scripted content and not the mechanics. This worked fine in 1-49 because your character is becoming stronger but the content that works while levelling doesn't necessarily work too well when you try to impose stringent control over power creep.

this is true and the fall off in your characters starts compared to the mobs at vet level is ZENI's attemps to slow down the power creep. The progression stops being completely vertical and starts moving towards horizontal where different tactics rather then a bigger sword are required.

i dont think you grasped the concept of what horizontal progression and power creep mean. you linked the very good animation from a few years back (extra credits) in another post but yet dont seem to have grasped the diffrence it points out.

horizontal progress would mean you dont level up any more. as in no further hgher levels gating you from equipment , vet mode does have vertical levels.

so power is creeping up and you are still levelling vertically , hence it is vertical progression or levelling content.
now what it does do badly is that while your power creeps up as you level in vet mode.you also creep down vertically in your effective power versus what you are fighting. This is a horrific mistake. forcing more vertical levelling while making you feel less powerfull as you do it..

if thats by design rather than a mistake it's a terrible design choice.

If it was horizontal you would not level but would perhaps earn extra morphs to choose for existing skills etc.. which would not make you more powerfull (power creep) and invalidate older content and equipment. but would give you more options to your play style.

again instead of giving you more flexibility as you progress it seems to do the opposite and force you into less and less play styles and builds., hence it becomes bathrobe and stick mode to be effective.

I understand exactly what horizontal and vertical progression mean.

Actually, your explanation shows he's correct.

ThisOnePosts

The tears....... so delicious.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

schroed360 wrote: »

I was clearly stated that the vet zone quests were "design" for small group(2) but will be soloable. Don't want to look for the link but I'm sure of it.

If that's true then it merely shows it's broken by design and that ZOS really have no idea what the majority, the overwhelming majority of players who love 1-50 want .. it's a small minority that wants to 'group up' to level in MMOs these days as ZOS will learn if they stick to their attitude that this is what we're expected to suffer.

If VR is largely WAI then they can say goodbye to a large chunk of their revenue as player retention post-50 will be dire.

Animus0724

LonePirate wrote: »

I read posts like this and I wonder if this person actually plays the game. There are dozens of quests where three mobs surround or protect a quest objective. You are not going to sneak past them and you cannot avoid them or else you cannot complete the quest. There are no skills which do massive amounts of damage to multiple targets from a ranged distance so you are forced to deal a little damage to all of them or a larger amount to a single target. Either way, as soon as you attack, all three usually spread out which prevents you from using CC on them all. Then they start attacking you. Each one is capable of an attack that takes away one third or more of your health immediately. Block and interrupt those attacks you say? Sure, I can interrupt one and set up a block but I cannot interrupt all three at once and I will eventually run out of stamina if I do nothing but block because their attacks are seldom synchronized and there is never enough of a cool down for them for me to get in an attack that kills them in only 2-3 rotations. Also, do you think that trio of mobs will stop attacking when I can no longer block once my stamina is gone? Or have uncovered some secret tactic that allows you to simultaneously attack and block/interrupt/dodge multiple targets? Now add one or sometimes two healers who are capable of 100% instant heals (well 100% in less than 2 seconds) and this situation is even more problematic.

Instead of screaming that people need to L2P (as if making it to VR content doesn't require learning how to defeat Mannimarco or Molag Bal), how about explaining to players your techniques for defeating these mob trios? How about a lot less false machismo and bravado and a lot more information and knowledge sharing?

I play a DK and I am currently working on Cadwell's Gold quests in the second Veteran alliance. Solo, non-elite mobs cause me no headaches. Pairs of mobs are usually easy barring lag or a button misfire. Trios - especially ones that randomly spawn a fourth creature during the battle - are an entirely different story. I start with Focused Aim on the main target after dropping Volcanic Ruin between them and me. I keep targeting the main with rapid light attacks from bow until I am close enough to deploy my talons. I will pop Annulment or Immovable and usually my Razor Armor as I switch to my Destro staff to spam Fire Ring in between blocking. Guess what? I still die, a lot. I can usually take down the main target but there is often at least one target so I do it all over again. Then I move on to the next trio, as it is common for there to be 8-10 of these trios between me and my final objective. By the time I reach the boss, especially if he is in a delve, my armor is 50% at best and I need to hope my Ultimate is ready as I am exhausted by this point and 15-30 minutes or more have passed for a single, run of the mill quest. There is no one in the zone doing the same quest so I can't call out for help or wait for someone to come along.

If people enjoy the Veteran content and its absurd difficulty, then great. I am glad ZOS is making someone happy because they are simply angering and alienating far more people than they are pleasing with the Veteran content. Like I have said before, VR mobs need nerfed by 25-50% and bosses should be buffed 10-20%.

Have you tried asking other players for help rather than blame the game for your bad play style?

seriously 3 mobs killing you? if you are at vet lvls you should have learned how to fight these mobs, this is how most games work, they get harder as you progress.

But lets be honest, its not that hard

Westcoast14_ESO

For VR content difficulty, most of the VR content dies very quickly (<10 sec to kill a standard group of 3+) and safely if the player has an AoE CC and uses a decent AoE damage ability. And success is almost guaranteed if you add on blocking and not standing in the fire.

Single target build success is slower (maybe 15-20+ sec to kill a standard group of 3), requires modestly more skillful play, and is much more build dependent. So for single target builds, I can see how a player could be disappointed that build they had used with substantial success pre-VR suddenly has its viability all but vanish. That said, by VR1, a player should have access to more than one build.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Animus0724 wrote: »

seriously 3 mobs killing you? if you are at vet lvls you should have learned how to fight these mobs, this is how most games work, they get harder as you progress

Name a game where LEVELING content takes a massive ramp upwards in tedium and time-to-kill then works its way into un-doable for many builds.

The trash and bosses in higher VR zones clearly belong in group instances, not over-world leveling content.

Animus0724

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

schroed360 wrote: »

I was clearly stated that the vet zone quests were "design" for small group(2) but will be soloable. Don't want to look for the link but I'm sure of it.

If that's true then it merely shows it's broken by design and that ZOS really have no idea what the majority, the overwhelming majority of players who love 1-50 want .. it's a small minority that wants to 'group up' to level in MMOs these days as ZOS will learn if they stick to their attitude that this is what we're expected to suffer.

If VR is largely WAI then they can say goodbye to a large chunk of their revenue as player retention post-50 will be dire.

Do you have factual evidence to support what you think the majority of the players want? numbers, graphs, polls, anything like that? Such claims require proper evidence to convince your audience.

inb4 "look at your guild, look at empty vet zones etc etc"
- yea all 5 of my guild are active, how do I do that? I don't join a random guilds made by some bad player who does not know how to run his/her guild and abandones his/her guild anyway...

Magdalina

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

L2P? Working as intended? People like it? What on Tamriel are you talking about?! I'm in vet 8 EP zone now(NA server), and I swear there's 10 people in entire zone at the very highest. Normally it's like 0. I can call for help at bosses for hours before someone answers. I have the whole zone chat ALL to myself, with not seeing a word from another there for hours. You think THAT is working as intended?

I don't want EVERY encounter to be the challenge. I don't want to get wiped just because I didn't notice those 2 thunderbugs camping a piece of wood. I don't want to carefully sneak to that one flower, checking the place for enemies so I actually survive long enough to pick it. Challenge? Good. Put it in dungeons. Put it in public dungeons(I have an odd suspicion publics actually have non buffed trash in. Because yesterday me and another person could duo through hoards of them rather easily there, like 20 per pull. But out in the wilderness? Uh huh), in caves, if nowhere else(which bosses are pushovers atm. Hit less then trash). At anchors(buffed anchors are FUN!). Put it in Craglorn, because Crag is supposed to be for groups - yet I can easier solo a pack of 6-7 trash in Crag than a pack of 3 in Greenshade. Do NOT put this challenge at every corner of the world I actually want to casually explore. This is not fun any more.

And I'm still staying, yes, because I'm stubborn and still interested in questing. But a lot of it just isn't fun any more.

Are you seriously getting pwned by 2 bugs at vet 8?

Really, honestly, seriously?

You know you don't actually have to fight them you can run off.

You must be playing a different game to me, I run around all over the place and if I do manage a bad pull, say 3+ mobs I just run them off.

I have never, not once, not been able to pick a flower because it was camped by some sort of legendary titan.

Yes. After duoing an anchor and public dungeon, I CAN get owned by damn insects. Because I'll just try to run along enjoying the scenery and not treating 100% of the place like warzone, stop for a flower, get hit by heavy attack I don't see coming, try to dodge, but that'll bug out, try a potion with same result and ta dah!

Running off doesn't work very well after being hit with heavy attack first. That usually gives me some nasty slow down effect and I die before that. Btw, I still want that flower, why the heck should I run away?

Reading comprehension. Why does every single one of you L2P people have to jump at every "I got killed by <x>" part of the message completely ignoring the rest of the post? I can kill mobs of 2, 3, etc. I'll arrange my skills carefully, make sure I get the first hit and wipe them. Except that I don't want to do this for every damn encounter. I don't want to sneak around open world carefully looking for sign of enemy and rearranging my skills all the time. I want to enjoy the scenery, run around mindlessly, pick up stuff on the way. This just isn't possible any more.

Oh, and yes, not once have I looked at a flower and thought "wow, I can't do these mobs, no way". But more and more often I look at the flower and think it's just not worth it. Nor is running over to that hill to see what's behind it, because there's 20 bandits otw and the fun of exploring somehow wears off. Possible? Yes. Fun? No.

KariTR

With many of the player population being diverted to Craglorn and/or Cyrodiil, perhaps the easiest solution for ZOS would be to thin out the mob population of the VR zones. They can still keep their lone enemy along with the pairs and groups of three, but less of them may make it easier for those having trouble avoiding the larger groups.

This wouldn't need any redesign of enemy stats and the best skilled players will still have groups of three as a choice and we all have group content in the form of dolmens and world bosses.

(Though as an aside, I hit The Rift for the first time last night and found the enemy there to be abnormally spread out, so maybe a thinning out process is already happening? No idea if it is the same on normal level).

LariahHunding

Animus0724 wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I read posts like this and I wonder if this person actually plays the game. There are dozens of quests where three mobs surround or protect a quest objective. You are not going to sneak past them and you cannot avoid them or else you cannot complete the quest. There are no skills which do massive amounts of damage to multiple targets from a ranged distance so you are forced to deal a little damage to all of them or a larger amount to a single target. Either way, as soon as you attack, all three usually spread out which prevents you from using CC on them all. Then they start attacking you. Each one is capable of an attack that takes away one third or more of your health immediately. Block and interrupt those attacks you say? Sure, I can interrupt one and set up a block but I cannot interrupt all three at once and I will eventually run out of stamina if I do nothing but block because their attacks are seldom synchronized and there is never enough of a cool down for them for me to get in an attack that kills them in only 2-3 rotations. Also, do you think that trio of mobs will stop attacking when I can no longer block once my stamina is gone? Or have uncovered some secret tactic that allows you to simultaneously attack and block/interrupt/dodge multiple targets? Now add one or sometimes two healers who are capable of 100% instant heals (well 100% in less than 2 seconds) and this situation is even more problematic.

Instead of screaming that people need to L2P (as if making it to VR content doesn't require learning how to defeat Mannimarco or Molag Bal), how about explaining to players your techniques for defeating these mob trios? How about a lot less false machismo and bravado and a lot more information and knowledge sharing?

I play a DK and I am currently working on Cadwell's Gold quests in the second Veteran alliance. Solo, non-elite mobs cause me no headaches. Pairs of mobs are usually easy barring lag or a button misfire. Trios - especially ones that randomly spawn a fourth creature during the battle - are an entirely different story. I start with Focused Aim on the main target after dropping Volcanic Ruin between them and me. I keep targeting the main with rapid light attacks from bow until I am close enough to deploy my talons. I will pop Annulment or Immovable and usually my Razor Armor as I switch to my Destro staff to spam Fire Ring in between blocking. Guess what? I still die, a lot. I can usually take down the main target but there is often at least one target so I do it all over again. Then I move on to the next trio, as it is common for there to be 8-10 of these trios between me and my final objective. By the time I reach the boss, especially if he is in a delve, my armor is 50% at best and I need to hope my Ultimate is ready as I am exhausted by this point and 15-30 minutes or more have passed for a single, run of the mill quest. There is no one in the zone doing the same quest so I can't call out for help or wait for someone to come along.

If people enjoy the Veteran content and its absurd difficulty, then great. I am glad ZOS is making someone happy because they are simply angering and alienating far more people than they are pleasing with the Veteran content. Like I have said before, VR mobs need nerfed by 25-50% and bosses should be buffed 10-20%.

Have you tried asking other players for help rather than blame the game for your bad play style?

seriously 3 mobs killing you? if you are at vet lvls you should have learned how to fight these mobs, this is how most games work, they get harder as you progress.

But lets be honest, its not that hard

You are anything but intellectually honest. Others can hold a correct viewpoint that is different from yours.

What people want from anything differs. What is important to one may not be important to another. Doesn't make their viewpoint any less than yours.

You also miss the point that has VR level increases, players combat effectiveness decreases. I don't think that is how most games work.

There are some posters on this thread that I believe are plants. They are on every negative thread, especially on VR content.

I am almost finished with VR content as a melee NB. I can play the game.

VR content still sucks, most of it has naught to do with difficulty.

Animus0724

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Animus0724 wrote: »

seriously 3 mobs killing you? if you are at vet lvls you should have learned how to fight these mobs, this is how most games work, they get harder as you progress

Name a game where LEVELING content takes a massive ramp upwards in tedium and time-to-kill then works its way into un-doable for many builds.

The trash and bosses in higher VR zones clearly belong in group instances, not over-world leveling content.

This game doesn't take a massive ramp up, I'm stop being nice for a second now,
stop blaming the game for your bad skills....k with that out of the way I currently v9 face rolling through rivenspire.

from cold harbour to vr1 zone was a bit of a steep ramp, but no where near the "massive" ramp you are describing...

like I said before, if you are having a hard time, take some time to ask for advice and rebuild your spec accordingly, I used one build type all the way from lvl 30 to vr9, only respecing to accomodate PvP, but other than that my build has never really change besides a few stat boosts from armor. The only thing that has changed were the tactics I used.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

LariahHunding

Westcoast14_ESO wrote: »

For VR content difficulty, most of the VR content dies very quickly (<10 sec to kill a standard group of 3+) and safely if the player has an AoE CC and uses a decent AoE damage ability. And success is almost guaranteed if you add on blocking and not standing in the fire.

Single target build success is slower (maybe 15-20+ sec to kill a standard group of 3), requires modestly more skillful play, and is much more build dependent. So for single target builds, I can see how a player could be disappointed that build they had used with substantial success pre-VR suddenly has its viability all but vanish. That said, by VR1, a player should have access to more than one build.

tdl;dr - switch skirt and staff

ForceMagnet3000

I'm a VR1 Nightblade crafter. I would like to get better at crafting, but the demands of the game make that too much of a chore to enjoy. I've been killed more than 60 times and I am only halfway to VR2. Grinding out levels is simply something I don't enjoy and getting killed all the time breaks me down.
I want the PVP guys to have their awesome builds (that would pwn me) I just want to progress in my own way as well.

Animus0724

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

VR content still sucks, most of it has naught to do with difficulty.

Then you are missing the point of the thread as it is about players finding it too hard. Yes is boring, tedious and grindy...but again, main topic of thread and your off topic rant....