Templar Update

Rhaegar75

any comments from reading the patch notes?

technohic

Damage added to eclipse on all morphs. Nice but doesn't really help it. It still gives free CC immunity and is worthless on immune targets. Not sure how we can have 2 on a single target with that in mind. I guess since CC immunity doesn't come in until the effect ends?

Still no word on doing anything with biting jabs other than leaving the knockback and giving free CC immunity for several seconds for a split second of CC. Wish they would get rid of the KB and let it just be a damage ability.

At least Radiant Oppression is getting nerfed a little. Maybe people can stop crying about it?

Added more damage on spear throw might be ok, but still not addressing its poor CC in the magicka morphs being lackluster for free CC immunity (I really dislike our free CC immunity giving ways)

Faster heals is kind of nice.

Faster projectile on reflective light is nice, but the amount of damage still tied to a DOT is still a decen downside.

I am more worried about the increased reduction in damage, shields and heals in Cyrodiil that is coming as a lot of our abilities double dip in those categories so we take it in the chin twice as hard.

Rhaegar75

technohic wrote: »

I am more worried about the increased reduction in damage, shields and heals in Cyrodiil that is coming as a lot of our abilities double dip in those categories so we take it in the chin twice as hard.

that is crap...I can't find it in the notes though! where is it?

technohic

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I am more worried about the increased reduction in damage, shields and heals in Cyrodiil that is coming as a lot of our abilities double dip in those categories so we take it in the chin twice as hard.

that is crap...I can't find it in the notes though! where is it?

Hmm not sure if they changed it from before when they said it on ESO live or just worded it differently here

The Battle Spirit buff has been adjusted and now has 30% more damage reduction, 35% less healing received, and 50% less damage shield strength.

EDIT: Yeah, really not sure if this is 30/35/50% on top of what it is now or total which would take the first 2 to 50% and shields to 65% reduction in Cyrodiil from PvE.

Rhaegar75

i'll keep my fingers crossed

technohic

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

i'll keep my fingers crossed

I'm not sure what to hope for. Either way, they are nerfing healing and shields more than damage. So relative to damage, our shield is practically worthless as is and our healing effectiveness takes a hit. People will die slower but not thanks to weaker heals.

msanchez7317

technohic wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

i'll keep my fingers crossed

I'm not sure what to hope for. Either way, they are nerfing healing and shields more than damage. So relative to damage, our shield is practically worthless as is and our healing effectiveness takes a hit. People will die slower but not thanks to weaker heals.

Are damage shields so different in Cyrodiil at VR14 vs. 49 in Blackwater Blade? I can tank with damage shields alone probably 4 or 5 DPS classes roughly endlessly at 49. I haven't played Templar in the other campaigns yet though, so can't say much about it.

As much as I love my Templar, and I really do (don't really play my 'main' NB anymore), I can't see any reason for Templars to complain about being nerfed a little. I can kill just about anything except a good DK or another good Templar in Blackwater Blade, usually 2 or more, without much risk. The fights against good DK's and Templars usually end with both of us walking away in a stalemate.

technohic

msanchez7317 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

i'll keep my fingers crossed

I'm not sure what to hope for. Either way, they are nerfing healing and shields more than damage. So relative to damage, our shield is practically worthless as is and our healing effectiveness takes a hit. People will die slower but not thanks to weaker heals.

Are damage shields so different in Cyrodiil at VR14 vs. 49 in Blackwater Blade? I can tank with damage shields alone probably 4 or 5 DPS classes roughly endlessly at 49. I haven't played Templar in the other campaigns yet though, so can't say much about it.

As much as I love my Templar, and I really do (don't really play my 'main' NB anymore), I can't see any reason for Templars to complain about being nerfed a little. I can kill just about anything except a good DK or another good Templar in Blackwater Blade, usually 2 or more, without much risk. The fights against good DK's and Templars usually end with both of us walking away in a stalemate.

Well; what is your shield strength in Blackwater? What is the average hit you see there on your death recap? it's probably not so much the shield there as it is the damage that is being done. A lot more damage stacking is happening in the vet campaigns and common hits are more than the shield with some upwards of twice the shield strength and overflow damage beyond what the shield absorbs is also then unmitigated by any armor you might be wearing. Generally people stack 2 shields for that reason.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Most people seem to agree that the Templar fixes that this thread was created to discuss did not fix the Templar. Many players are frustrated that it seems ZOS took away as much as it gave in the most recent round of Templar balancing, and that ZOS has no idea what to do with the class.

We get, for example, threads like this: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202266/templars-in-pts#latest

The latest patch has very little good for Templars (a 10% boost to javelin's damage is very minor), and a lot that is bad (the double nerf to Blazing Shield is crippling).

Templars ranked dead last by a huge margin in every poll that asked what is the strongest class in PvP.

Some sort of response by ZOS to this would be nice.

Emma_Overload

I'm only a part-time Templar, but I can tell you what it would take to make me wanna upgrade from my Sorc main to my Temp alt:

ZOS should DOUBLE the amount of healing on every Templar heal. As it stands now, Templars (in my experience) only do about 20% more healing per cast than random Resto staff users. That's nothing to get excited about. Combine this with the fact healing in general is just terribly weak compared to shields like Hardened Ward, and I see no reason to retire my Sorc.

tinythinker

A few thoughts since Templars are still needing some . I don't think these would come close to making Templars OP but they would add some flavor to the class and make some skills more viable. Let me know if you agree, and point out what's wrong with an idea if you disagree. Thank you very much for taking the time to consider my proposals.


AEDRIC SPEAR

Replace the Knockback on Puncturing Strikes and its morphs with a Stun (target can't move or use abilities until effect ends or they Break Free) or pair the Knockback with Concussion (target deals 10% less damage for the duration of the effect or until they Break Free). This gives an opening for another ability or weapon attack rather than just spam, spam, spam, spam...

Give a 15% base damage increase to Piercing Javelin and its morphs rather than 10% only to the Aurora Javelin morph; increase the range of the Aurora Javelin morph from 20 to 25 meters, increase the travel speed of the projectile to compensate for the longer distance, and boost the extra damage based on distance to a max of 60%.

Increase shield strength to 40% of caster's health for Sun Shield and its morphs. Double the damage on activation for Radiant Ward while either Stunning or Knocking Back those caught in the blast of the activation. Add Disorient (same as Stun but also ends if target takes damage) or Knock Back to enemies in range of the AoE damage effect when Blazing Shield explodes.

Change the Spear Wall passive to add a 10% chance to inflict Minor Maim (15% reduction in target's outgoing damage) for 8 seconds on an enemy whose melee attack has been blocked. [Helps make more of Blocking with the increased cost in 1.6 and the removal of Stamina Regeneration while Blocking in 2.1.]

For the Balanced Warrior passive, as others have mentioned, staffs haven't used Weapon Damage in a looong time. Have it include Spell Damage in the 3%/6% bonus as well while including Physical Damage in the 1000/2000 resist bonus.

Radial Sweep (Ultimate):

The Empowering Sweep morph works for being tanky in PvE on large pulls because of the damage reduction, so I use it when fighting large groups of mobs while solo adventuring. I just collect them and use Empowering Sweep, Blazing Shield, Puncturing Sweep. You can go all day like that because of the low ult cost with as many trash mobs as you want, the more enemies the better. I wouldn't use it in PvP. It also works if you're an actual tank in group play.

Crescent Sweep is meant to be a small burst+dot focusing on enemies in front of the player (33% more damage to enemies in front of the caster on the initial hit). It's more like a really strong AoE regular skill than an ultimate but that is probably tied to it being relatively cheap. Adding in something like a debuff to those caught in the +33% strike would be nice though and might make it better for PvP as an opening hit. Either major breach (significantly reduced spell resistance) since it does magicka damage or both minor breach+minor fracture (moderately reduced spell + physical resistance) would be nice. Just pop Cresent, hit your morph of Puncturing Strikes, and enjoy. Either that or up the damage on the initial hit to those standing in the frontal cone area of effect to 50%.

DAWN'S WRATH

Make all spell projectiles in the Dawn's Wrath skill line -- Sun Fire and its morphs along with Solar Flare and its morph Dark Flare -- unable to be Dodged. Target(s) can still Block the projectiles to reduce damage taken, Reflect the projectiles, or Absorb the projectiles. [Dark Flare's cast time and slow travel speed would be balanced by the "no Dodge" effect. This would not effect PvE at all as most mobs don't dodge, but it would make the skill more useful in PvP. The target and nearby enemies would still receive Major Defile if it is Reflected.]

Replace Major Prophecy for Vampire's Bane (increase caster's Spell Critical chance by 10%) with Major Breach (lower target's Spell Resistance by 5120) to make the DoT more effective. [Many players already slot Mage Light or get Major Prophecy from a potion.]

Reclassify Eclipse and its morphs as non-CC abilities that cannot be removed by Break Free. They could still be cleansed/purged. Increase the bonus damage for Unstable Core to 50% or 60% (at least). Failing that, double or triple the damage done by the base ability and morphs when someone breaks out of the bubble in order to make up for wasting magicka in order to give them instant CC immunity. Make them choose between taking real damage or waiting it out (and taking normal "end of ability" damage). If it's going to be a "one target at a time" skill make it worth it.

Add "healing effect increased up to 20% based on your current magicka" to Radiant Glory.

Change the Enduring Rays passive to only increase the length of Nova, Sun Fire, and Eclipse. The Focused Healing and Light Weaver passives from the Restoring Light skill line only affect the ultimate and two active skills, so why not keep the boost to the skills that benefit from lasting longer and un-nerf those that do not?

Nova (Ultimate): Drop the cost to the 200-220 range.

RESTORING LIGHT

The Healing Ritual ability has always been in need of something, but the changes to it haven't really made it much better or worse. It does great healing, but the immobility, two second cast time, and ten meter radius in exchange for that healing is a bit much on the offset side of the scales. Increase the interval before the delayed heal of Lingering Ritual to 10 or 12 seconds and give those in the 10 meter radius who receive the initial cast Minor Vitality (+8% healing received) until that extra heal ticks. Add Major Mending (30% health recovery), for the caster only, to Ritual of Rebirth.

Have the Light Weaver passive grant 8 ultimate, not 2, when allies under 60% health are affected by Healing Ritual. Even if players spam it, there is little chance of exploiting given the limited range and immobility while casting. Besides, cheap ultimates are cheap, so it doesn't matter if you charge them a bit faster. And getting to the costlier ultimates faster makes Healing Ritual more appealing, which is a good thing.

Rite of Passage (Ultimate): I rarely see either morph of this ability used outside of PvE. Sometimes I and some healer Templars will use Remembrance in group PvE play for bosses that have high damage phases, while others use Practiced Incantation and its slightly longer channel time (an extra two seconds). I personally don't find the extra two seconds for Incantation a good trade for the damage reduction, but that's a matter of preference and some favor it. Perhaps that morph could be altered to be the PvP-preferred version. For example, by extending the caster's immunity to crowd control effect to the allies being healed for the duration of the ability.

(Older Version)

AEDRIC SPEAR

Replace the Knockback on Puncturing Strikes and its morphs with a Stun (target can't move or use abilities until effect ends or they Break Free) or pair the Knockback with Concussion (target deals 10% less damage for the duration of the effect or until they Break Free).

Give a 15% base damage increase to Piercing Javelin and its morphs rather than 10% only to the Aurora Javelin morph; increase the range of the Aurora Javelin morph from 20 to 25 meters, increase the travel speed of the projectile to compensate for the longer distance, and boost the extra damage based on distance to a max of 60%.

Increase shield strength to 40% of caster's health for Sun Shield and its morphs. Double the damage on activation for Radiant Aura while either Stunning or Knocking Back those caught in the blast of the activation. Add Disorient (same as Stun but also ends if target takes damage) or Knock Back to enemies in range of the AoE damage effect when Blazing Shield explodes.

Change the Spear Wall passive to add a 10% chance to inflict Minor Maim (15% reduction in target's outgoing damage) for 8 seconds on an enemy whose melee attack has been blocked. [Helps make more of Blocking with the increased cost in 1.6 and the removal of Stamina Regeneration while Blocking in 2.1.]

Radial Sweep***: The Empowering Sweep morph works for being tanky in PvE on large pulls because of the damage reduction, so I use it when fighting large groups of mobs while solo adventuring. I just collect them and use Empowering Sweep, Blazing Shield, Puncturing Sweep. You can go all day like that because of the low ult cost with as many trash mobs as you want, the more enemies the better. I wouldn't use it in PvP. It also works if you're an actual tank in group play.

Crescent Sweep is meant to be a small burst+dot focusing on enemies in front of the player (33% more damage to enemies in front of the caster on the initial hit). It's more like a really strong AoE regular skill than an ultimate but that is probably tied to it being relatively cheap. Adding in something like a debuff to those caught in the +33% strike would be nice though and might make it better for PvP as an opening hit. Either major breach (significantly reduced spell resistance) since it does magicka damage or both minor breach+minor fracture (moderately reduced spell + physical resistance) would be nice. Just pop Cresent, hit your morph of Puncturing Strikes, and enjoy. Either that or up the damage on the initial hit to those standing in the frontal cone area of effect to 50%.



DAWN'S WRATH

Make all spell projectiles in the Dawn's Wrath skill line -- Sun Fire and its morphs along with Solar Flare and its morph Dark Flare -- unable to be Dodged. Target(s) can still Block the projectiles to reduce damage taken, Reflect the projectiles, or Absorb the projectiles. [Dark Flare's cast time and slow travel speed would be balanced by the "no Dodge" effect. This would not effect PvE at all as mobs don't dodge, but it would make the skill more useful in PvP. The target and nearby enemies would still receive Major Defile if it is Reflected.]

Replace Major Prophecy for Vampire's Bane (increase caster's Spell Critical chance by 10%) with Major Breach (lower target's Spell Resistance by 5120) to make the DoT more effective. [Many players already slot Mage Light or get Major Prophecy from a potion.]

Reclassify Eclipse and its morphs as non-CC abilities that cannot be removed by Break Free. They could still be cleansed/purged.* Increase the damage for Unstable Core. Failing that, double or triple the damage done by the base ability and morphs when someone breaks out and gains CC immunity to make up for wasting magicka in order to give them instant CC immunity. Make them choose real damage or waiting it out.

Add "healing effect increased up to 20% based on your current magicka" to Radiant Glory**.



RESTORING LIGHT

Rite of Passage***: I rarely see either morph of this ability used outside of PvE. Sometimes I and some healer Templars will use Remembrance in group PvE play for bosses that have high damage phases, while others use Practiced Incantation and its slightly longer channel time (an extra two seconds). I personally don't find the extra two seconds for Incantation a good trade for the damage reduction, but that's a matter of preference. Perhaps that morph could be altered to be the PvP-preferred version. For example, by extending the caster's immunity to crowd control effect to the allies being healed.


*adapted from suggestion by @Anazasi

**adapted from suggestion by @Attorneyatlawl

***adapted and added later from a comment in a post about Templar ultimates

Mr_Elite

Thanks for the fix, can yall fix biting jabs

JLB

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Most people seem to agree that the Templar fixes that this thread was created to discuss did not fix the Templar. Many players are frustrated that it seems ZOS took away as much as it gave in the most recent round of Templar balancing, and that ZOS has no idea what to do with the class.

We get, for example, threads like this: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202266/templars-in-pts#latest

The latest patch has very little good for Templars (a 10% boost to javelin's damage is very minor), and a lot that is bad (the double nerf to Blazing Shield is crippling).

Templars ranked dead last by a huge margin in every poll that asked what is the strongest class in PvP.

Some sort of response by ZOS to this would be nice.

They really did that? Astonishing.
So glad I quit this game months ago.
Thanks for making your incompetence so clear, ZOS. Now I'm sure I'm not coming back.

Anazasi

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I'm only a part-time Templar, but I can tell you what it would take to make me wanna upgrade from my Sorc main to my Temp alt:

ZOS should DOUBLE the amount of healing on every Templar heal. As it stands now, Templars (in my experience) only do about 20% more healing per cast than random Resto staff users. That's nothing to get excited about. Combine this with the fact healing in general is just terribly weak compared to shields like Hardened Ward, and I see no reason to retire my Sorc.

If they revert the passive for healing increased by 30% from the current live 10% in the restoring light passive that would fix the Templar healing issues on PTS without having to adjust the battle buff.

NICK_PHOENIX

Yeah make the Templars even stronger, the Templars,sorcerers,and night ladies all have skill that do insane damage except the dragonknight, you guys either need to buff flame whip or give us a new skill to compete will crystal frag, dark flare, and so many more. Dragonkight might have good dot abilities but in pvp those just don't cut it, you should make some of the dot abilities cost more but do the damage up front instead of dot or maybe for a morph, but just give us something that hits hard crystal frags has 122 base damage solar flare has 128 flame whip has 76, idc if it costs twice the magica make it do more damage Please!!!

Cinbri

They also nerfed Eclipse by making it capped with 1 target...

SCinsight

NICK_PHOENIX wrote: »

Yeah make the Templars even stronger, the Templars,sorcerers,and night ladies all have skill that do insane damage except the dragonknight, you guys either need to buff flame whip or give us a new skill to compete will crystal frag, dark flare, and so many more. Dragonkight might have good dot abilities but in pvp those just don't cut it, you should make some of the dot abilities cost more but do the damage up front instead of dot or maybe for a morph, but just give us something that hits hard crystal frags has 122 base damage solar flare has 128 flame whip has 76, idc if it costs twice the magica make it do more damage Please!!!

Read the patch notes in regard to DK's and the buff to Flame Lash before you come to a Templar thread and QQ.

Anazasi

I'll be the first to post this here since we all know it's going to happen. Hey Dev's any word on when to expect a Templar Revamp? Or are you going to simply monitor the class and publish updates as needed.

Alucardo

Inco wrote: »

RESOURCE MANAGEMENT - MAGICKA REGEN??? Give us what the same that SORC's are getting please.

Then roll a sorcerer. That's like a dragonknight asking for teleport strike.

Suntzu1414

this is bright side.

because they nerf blocking so hard.
shards will become the new meta for pve trails/raids. (the demand for off-healers and dks heals ...will decline)

yeah. i think people will need to/and will change blocking style.
but, old habits die hard...better to replace with shard spammers

so welcome the shard spammers.
:P

kill well
ST

Lettigall

Anazasi wrote: »

I'll be the first to post this here since we all know it's going to happen. Hey Dev's any word on when to expect a Templar Revamp? Or are you going to simply monitor the class and publish updates as needed.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but devs don't read templar threads...

tplink3r1

Alucardo wrote: »

Inco wrote: »

RESOURCE MANAGEMENT - MAGICKA REGEN??? Give us what the same that SORC's are getting please.

Then roll a sorcerer. That's like a dragonknight asking for teleport strike.

Well, at least lore-wise templars should have more magicka than other classes, considering sun magic is pure form of magicka.

Fizzlewizzle

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Inco wrote: »

RESOURCE MANAGEMENT - MAGICKA REGEN??? Give us what the same that SORC's are getting please.

Then roll a sorcerer. That's like a dragonknight asking for teleport strike.

Well, at least lore-wise templars should have more magicka than other classes, considering sun magic is pure form of magicka.

Lore wise Sorcs should be the number 1.
Templars would be hard to guess, as they are general warriors with magical bonuses.

What seems correct, when it comes to my personal understanding of Templars and how they are in this game, is that they can master large radius light magic and anti undead spells. Although the second part isn't that prominent, the first part does show a bit.

Would be nice though if they had more large area spells. Healing Ritual is nice, but besides that most of our larger skills are ultimates.

Anazasi

Can we get more comments on how Templars are playing out in PVP post update. I do not think there are too many issues with PVE for Templars although healing seems under par. I think the healing passives should be looked at and possibly adjusted. I understand the aspect about the battle spirit buff and I think that's fine but increasing the passives would make marginal improvements with the battle buff and still help the support build Templars who focus on healing.

Fizzlewizzle

Anazasi wrote: »

Can we get more comments on how Templars are playing out in PVP post update. I do not think there are too many issues with PVE for Templars although healing seems under par. I think the healing passives should be looked at and possibly adjusted. I understand the aspect about the battle spirit buff and I think that's fine but increasing the passives would make marginal improvements with the battle buff and still help the support build Templars who focus on healing.

I agree with this.
PvE combat isn't a problem for Templars (never was to begin with). Although it mostly exists out of 1 skill, it isn't much of a problem.
Healing on the other hand Is a problem. Because people complained in the past that Templar healing was better than other classes Templars (and the Restoration staff skill tree) Got nerfs to make them less OP, and remove almost all synergies between the two healing trees.

Let that sink in for a second:
3 classes, who are all specked mostly towards damage and/ or tanking complain about the healing the last class does, even though they have 1 skill tree completely dedicated towards healing.
No damage, no CC, just plain buffs and healing numbers.
The class that comes closest to it, the Nightblade with the Siphoning tree, still has damage potential, even when using a healing focused build. But even then they DARE to complain because Templars outheal them...

But, lets not forget that the Restoring Light tree is mostly useless to begin with.
1 fast burst heal.
1 Cleanse skill (through the means of Synergy).
1 (During the IC update Ninja nerfed) Burst heal with casting time.
1 Buff that gives gives the same effect as a potion does, but with less duration... or a heal which only works when there are dead things around.
1 buff for armor rating and magicka regen/ extra healing. (Only works in a very restricted range. Enemy takes 1 step back and you lose your buff.)
And the ultimate, a healing skill which also received more nerfs then Bold and Dodge Rolling combined.

But yea... Templar healing is OP. NERF!

MightyHarken

I believe biting jabs should receive a buff to aoe damage and remove the 1 target buff, as it stands now it only semi competes with wrecking blow, so it 's useless as it is, only good reason to have it is to get the 2200 weap crit. If it had AOE potential, at least it would help people have a better selection of secondary weapons to not have to slot dual wield.

contact.opiumb16_ESO

Lettigall wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

I'll be the first to post this here since we all know it's going to happen. Hey Dev's any word on when to expect a Templar Revamp? Or are you going to simply monitor the class and publish updates as needed.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but devs don't read templar threads...

Indeed ! So many dead threads about templars, with very good analyses of how broken are some skills, how poor designed passives with bad synergies and counter productive effects etc.

ZOS do not care about temps, they are slower by design they said, and they work "as intended".

BugCollector

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

I'll be the first to post this here since we all know it's going to happen. Hey Dev's any word on when to expect a Templar Revamp? Or are you going to simply monitor the class and publish updates as needed.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but devs don't read templar threads...

Indeed ! So many dead threads about templars, with very good analyses of how broken are some skills, how poor designed passives with bad synergies and counter productive effects etc.

ZOS do not care about temps, they are slower by design they said, and they work "as intended".

Yeah, it's sad.

Mr_Nobody

1) Any words on Radiant Destruction instantly cancelling while walking sideways and attacking a ranged/mage NPC? (Already submitted a bug)
2) Any words on Radiant Destruction being dodge'able and leaving templar still in animation channeling "nothing"? (Already submitted a bug)
3) Any words on Radiant Destruction not scaling its execute damage properly? Ive tested it multiple times and theres like 50% (aka - random) it will deal same damage value on both 10% enemy and 100% enemy. (Also submitted a bug?)

Weeks are passing by, not a single word...

Mumyo

We need to cry more just as sorcs and DK's.... otherwise we dont get enough attention.
our ressourcemanagement sucks and repentance is way too situational... other classes have passives that are stronger than our active abilities.

I am a stamina templar and i hate that one of the first awesome stamina classes from pre 1.5 went the worst choice to make.