Upcoming Campaign Changes

jaif13

These changes are long overdue. But until you allow people to level reasonably in PvP, you're going to continue to lose players who grow tired of PvE. There needs to be more experience, gold, and loot in PvP

Ysne58

I think you need to figure out how to make things up to the people where playing in the NA and EU campaign that you shut down early. @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ please do what you can to make this right for them.

Cody

time for me to be very happy. YAY. campaigns for pre vets and vets! now I will be able to play PvP without all the players killing me in 3 hits. this is awesome.

NeeScrolls

Skirmish840 wrote: »

I think these changes make it a lot more interesting, especially for folk who aren't veteran yet and are tired of being "oneshot" in Cyrodiil.

You're probably going to take this the wrong way but... If you (or anyone) is getting "one shot" in PVP , low-level or not, you need to either gear up or learn to play your Class better. (or both)

I'm far from being a 'hardcore' PvP'er , yet as a level 15 to now 46 , i honestly don't recall ever being *oneshot* killed by anyone . (3 shot'd? sure. 4-shot'd after being shield-bashed? yep . But never "ONE shot'd" ) .

Is it more challenging in Cyrodiil as a non-Vet? Well yeah sure, obviously.

But if you read my previous post in this thread, it's far from impossible to compete (and even excel, as i have) . It just takes a bit more effort & execution.

Problem is, imo, most players nowadays expect to either immediately dominate (without using any tactics or smarts...or groups) ...OR they want everything handed to them (without working for it like the better players do) .

ESO Devs: please don't cater to the 'lowest common denominator' player.

Nor to the 'hardcore' extreme player.

Cater to the 'average or above-average' player (the *middle class* , so to speak) . That way, people/subscribers have something to STRIVE TOWARD.

Rather than more spoon-fed easy-mode charity casing. (at least not in Cyrodiil please)

TheGrandAlliance

As I stated on my own thread: This idea is terrible... to destroy the few already functioning servers and replace them with tier-based short term ones. IF anything can put at end to PVP... it will be this INdeed...

sekta

Fully support this. Great changes.

sekta

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

As I stated on my own thread: This idea is terrible... to destroy already functioning servers and replace them with tier-based short term ones. IF anything can put at end to PVP... it will be this INdeed...

no

Cody

I have a question, if this actually goes thru, will the pre vet campaigns still have all the PvP NPC at VR5? or will they be put back at lvl 50?

Cody

NeeScrolls wrote: »

Skirmish840 wrote: »

I think these changes make it a lot more interesting, especially for folk who aren't veteran yet and are tired of being "oneshot" in Cyrodiil.

You're probably going to take this the wrong way but... If you (or anyone) is getting "one shot" in PVP , low-level or not, you need to either gear up or learn to play your Class better. (or both)

I'm far from being a 'hardcore' PvP'er , yet as a level 15 to now 46 , i honestly don't recall ever being *oneshot* killed by anyone . (3 shot'd? sure. 4-shot'd after being shield-bashed? yep . But never "ONE shot'd" ) .

Is it more challenging in Cyrodiil as a non-Vet? Well yeah sure, obviously.

But if you read my previous post in this thread, it's far from impossible to compete (and even excel, as i have) . It just takes a bit more effort & execution.

Problem is, imo, most players nowadays expect to either immediately dominate (without using any tactics or smarts...or groups) ...OR they want everything handed to them (without working for it like the better players do) .

ESO Devs: please don't cater to the 'lowest common denominator' player.

Nor to the 'hardcore' extreme player.

Cater to the 'average or above-average' player (the *middle class* , so to speak) . That way, people/subscribers have something to STRIVE TOWARD.

Rather than more spoon-fed easy-mode charity casing. (at least not in Cyrodiil please)

I myself just want to be able to play. I cant play when everything kills me in 2 hits. I don't have the time to get to ax Vr rank, and get legend gear, nor will I power grind and exploit. so you see the problem there. and why this is a good idea to a lot of people. I respect your opinion though.

Igolbug

Can you just turn Wabbajack into a never ending campaign please.

madangrypally

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

These are some great changes though be careful about going overboard with the number of campaigns. To many and the same issues will arise.

Here is my suggestion:
Limit the number of campaigns. There is no need for the 10 campaigns we currently have. With the current player base I would suggest the following.
Campaign 1 and 2: Normal 2 week campaign.
Campaign 3: Non Vet 5 day campaign.
Campaign 4: Limited death 5 day campaign. A player has 10 special bound soul gems upon selecting the campaign. Each death removes one of those soul gem and once a player has 0 special soul gems they are kicked out of campaign and can not reenter. End of campaign rewards is based on total points accrued during campaign duration.

I would limit this campaigns to only 4 until the PvP playerbase returns. Have additional campaigns ready just not turned on until they are needed. By needed I mean 3 of the 4 campaigns are full/locked.

Kililin

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

Non VR campaigns, very good idea.

For the others, could you please tell us the population caps?

There needs to be something done to provide the underdogs with incentives to play in their homecampaign.
You know, positive reinforcement always works better than negative (High Cost to switch, lockout = negative reinforcement)

Also remove AoE Caps, make Keeps way harder to take and provide more advantages, add nameplates

HippieTheGreat

Igolbug wrote: »

Can you just turn Wabbajack into a never ending campaign please.

I'll second this

Seriously though, I'd like to keep 1 long term camp. Wabbajack works

Belenthir

I really like the changes, I vote in favour !

Gaettusk

I'm not liking the super short durations on campaigns. It will be easy for organized guilds to full cap a campaign and win without having much of a fight. It will turn Cyro into a joke of a battleground

Samadhi

This idea is a fantastic start, and I look forward to your continued focus on revitalizing PvP.

Brydion

So the bulk of the players prefer not to be one shotted as soon as they start moving around Cyrodiil and intentionally spread themselves among the 10 campaigns to avoid that to the extent possible. The pvpers complain that there are too many campaigns so there aren't enough noobs available to one shot. ZOS in it's well and frequently demonstrated wisdom reduces the number of campaigns to 5. Another case of the wishes of the few? I am sure that essentially walling Cyrodiil off from the many will greatly enhance the prospects for this game.

Samadhi

Brydion wrote: »

So the bulk of the players prefer not to be one shotted as soon as they start moving around Cyrodiil and intentionally spread themselves among the 10 campaigns to avoid that to the extent possible. The pvpers complain that there are too many campaigns so there aren't enough noobs available to one shot. ZOS in it's well and frequently demonstrated wisdom reduces the number of campaigns to 5. Another case of the wishes of the few? I am sure that essentially walling Cyrodiil off from the many will greatly enhance the prospects for this game.

There is a planned campaign exclusively for pre-Vet players.
If a pre-Vet is getting one-shotted in an anything goes campaign, they have the option to swap to the other.

cortechsnub18_ESO

Very happy to see non-vet campaigns, I knew you folks would do the right thing. It is welcome and appreciated! I will probably reroll to stay in there, since I have no interest in farming Crag for uber gear.

DCGoth_OTG

Brydion wrote: »

So the bulk of the players prefer not to be one shotted as soon as they start moving around Cyrodiil and intentionally spread themselves among the 10 campaigns to avoid that to the extent possible. The pvpers complain that there are too many campaigns so there aren't enough noobs available to one shot. ZOS in it's well and frequently demonstrated wisdom reduces the number of campaigns to 5. Another case of the wishes of the few? I am sure that essentially walling Cyrodiil off from the many will greatly enhance the prospects for this game.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Anyone who played both sides of beta could see that there would eventually be problems with campaigns.

Everyone in the weekend beta had no problems with Cyrodiil, and people said there was balance. The main problem there was level caps in the weekend beta. If you could only level a character to 17, 23, etc you would never see level disparity.

On the Psijics Order, (PTS), side there was a number of threads posted very early on that a levl 10 was not going to have fun vs. VR Level players. This was a problem that was kicked around in the forums a lot. Now ZOS is offering players a sub-VR campaign. This will potentially fix that disaprity that has always been there, but only seen prior to launch if you were in the PTS.

Additionally, the entire scope of campaigns were never really tested. The PTS only ever had one campaign. It was a 48 hour campaign with no competition. The weekend beta offered more campaigns; however, you also had a number of players wishing to dash in and try everything before the servers went down. It possibly provided limited accurate data pertaining to actual post-release gameplay.

You now see ZOS acknowledging that there is some problems that need to be fixed and they are going after the problems aggressively, in order to help out the flood of posts that have been brought up since launch. I am GM of a very large guild. I see these posts both here as well as in our private forums.

These changes appear to be undertaken by ZOS with great thought. When people were pointing out errors in the system, ZOS did not jump in and offer knee-jerk reactions and quick fixes. They read the posts, made evaluations and now it looks like they are reacting to the many requests by the vast majority of players that have posted over the last two months. I am sure thst their choices were made with a great deal of consideration and their changes look as if they are trying to address the needs of the many, not the needs of the few. This is why these options are being met with the vast majority of players in favor of the changes. This is not catering to the vocal minority of players on the forums.

(**Ugh, Typos)

TheGrandAlliance

DCGoth_OTG wrote: »

These changes with great thought. When people were pointing out errors in the system, ZOS did not jump in and offer knee-jerk reactions and quick fixes. They read the posts, made evealuations and now it looks like they are reacting to the many requests by the vast majority of players that have posted over the last two months. I am sure thst their choices were made with a great deal of consideration and their changes look as if they are trying to address the needs of the many, not the needs of the few. This is why these options are being met with the vast majority of players in favor of the changes. This is not catering to the vocal minority of players on the forums.

O yes... shut down of entire servers (to which a few are fully populated) was done with GREAT THOUGHT AL MIGHTY ZENIMAX GODS!


RIIIIGHT. If you truely a guild leader of some big guild you would know that nuking prexisting functioning servers is the worst idea possible.

Of course... this assumes you are even aware that PvP servers (that are populated) still exist.

thelg

These campaign durations will turn the game into GW2 but only worse because there is no server competition.

Dont do it.. just don't

100k to switch is a joke, you might as well just put up a 3 day timer and just leave it there. people will be hopping around just like now. Same with guesting..

Here is my suggestion. Keep current most populated campaigns and kill of the bottom low pop 30-40%. Set switch cost to be around 500k minimum. Completely disable guesting, it is not needed once campaigns are consolidated.

If this is what you guys come up with you might as well just add battlegrounds and make it easier for us to just cancel subscription and leave.

Look to DAOC Zeni.. look there and find what you need to do

TheGrandAlliance

thelg wrote: »

These campaign durations will turn the game into GW2 but only worse because there is no server competition.

Finally somone (else) with a functioning brain posts on this thread.

wyrdob16_ESO

My feedback to the original post:

I think you are falling from one extreme to the other with those campaign durations. While having 90 day long campaigns right at server start was a mistake in my eyes, cutting the maximum length down to 30 days with even shorter ones on the side feels wrong too. I would not want to set foot into a campaign which only runs for a week, would feel totally pointless to me.

What you should do (and have done) is start with 30 day long campaigns, these would have run their course and allowed for the foreseeable change in population to adapt after a month and after two months, also they wouldn't still carry the taint of having been subject to numerous exploits by now, which the current ones do.

So assuming exploits in pvp were finally fixed you could then offer say one or more 30 day campaigns, as well as one or two 90 day campaigns. Put week long campaigns up alongside to experiment with them, but do not make them the majority of the pvp content please.

I do like the guesting feature as it is, because at times my campaign of choice is simply too full to be accessible. Increasing the cost to switch home campaigns does not concern me, as I generally don't tend to do that - but allow people one free change in long duration campaigns during the first week, so they don't get punished with a ghost town because they happened to pick the wrong campaign.

thelg

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

thelg wrote: »

These campaign durations will turn the game into GW2 but only worse because there is no server competition.

Finally somone (else) with a functioning brain posts on this thread.

Lol thanks. Comsidering I am *** drunk atm. Kinda tells you how bad this *** is.

They might be in desperation mode and just decide to go all the way to GW2, except that game subscription fee is.. 0. Da faq.. Zeni? Common guys.. don't do it.

under VR campaigns should jut be replaced with proper scaling. Its not that hard really.. just scale people to 2k health 1.6k health and magic.. 160 weapon etc. Hell just set HP to 2.5k to make low levels more survivable since they have less skills and gear

I will think about it once I sober up, but I might as well cancel I am not paying for GW2 Scrolls Online.

DCGoth_OTG

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

DCGoth_OTG wrote: »

These changes with great thought. When people were pointing out errors in the system, ZOS did not jump in and offer knee-jerk reactions and quick fixes. They read the posts, made evealuations and now it looks like they are reacting to the many requests by the vast majority of players that have posted over the last two months. I am sure thst their choices were made with a great deal of consideration and their changes look as if they are trying to address the needs of the many, not the needs of the few. This is why these options are being met with the vast majority of players in favor of the changes. This is not catering to the vocal minority of players on the forums.

O yes... shut down of entire servers (to which a few are fully populated) was done with GREAT THOUGHT AL MIGHTY ZENIMAX GODS!


RIIIIGHT. If you truely a guild leader of some big guild you would know that nuking prexisting functioning servers is the worst idea possible.

Of course... this assumes you are even aware that PvP servers (that are populated) still exist.

I disagree. First, I am not appeasing any mighty gods. I am simply offering opinions to the developers of a game. That's a big difference from ritual blood-letting to appease my deities. I am not on the Zenimax payroll and I pay a monthly sub, just like everyone else. The closest tie I have to this game is that I used to work in Bethesda. (The city, not the company. Which, by the way, is now headquartered in Rockville.)

I'm not certain why you would call into question my guild status; however, both here and in our private forums there are a plethora of posts about what needs to be fixed. Most of our members do not even post or read the official forums, so I doubt that there is any collusion between the two.

About the servers, the only part I will agree with is that they are pre-existing. I question the 'functioning' part of your discourse. That is unless you feel that empty, wide open spaces and very few players is definitive of a functioning server. By that definition, I host a functioning MineCraft server. It functions with three people in it.

In reference to your statement that the servers are populated, I fail to see that this is the case. Conversely, when I log in I see low population in nine out of ten campaign with a single server that occasionally jumps up to medium. The last post I read on these forums with any complaint about a Cyrodiil login queue was posted just after launch. Since then I see a large number of people mentioning their experiences in finding wide open spaces.

Our guild has been keeping the PvP faithful occupied by doing shard runs for members. We originally started the game with a loose alliance with The Noore and PRX. Both of those guilds abandoned the agreed upon campaign and began swapping out to other campaigns. If you are able to offer evidence of a healthy, viable server population, I would like to see the numbers; however, I do not feel that those numbers exist.

(**More typos)

reagen_lionel

I love the sound of this, definitly a step in the right direction. I might actually start going to cyrodil more now.

Mojomonkeyman

As said before, I overall like the direction of the changes, but you are falling from one extreme into the other.

Why not leave/create 1-2 90 Day campaigns? Why is "vet only/no vet" limited to the shortest duration? In case of "no vet" I`d understand, but for "vet only" a more inbetween kind of solution would be more appropriate, right?

Regards

TheGrandAlliance

@DCGoth_OTG

Look: You must play US side and I dont' know anything about how PvP servers fuction there... only hear information provided to me by others. Alas; as I can personally attest, to EU Dawnbreaker (Ebonheart) HAS a community, not to which of course I built up myself from day one. People who been there know each other (for better or worse), new players are advised what to do, outreach to players/guild outside of the server is made, and of course everyone knows me personally as the "/z commander" (great use of /zone).

There IS a community there make no mistake: IT is also the reason we are 50K+ head in the score even with heavy competition from Daggerfall. I have been to other EU PvP servers, and as to the ones that still function, also have some sort of "community of players"(although not as good as mine).

Populations EU side are just fine. With the current population system... 4-5 servers during peak EU times are now "locked" or 3+bars. The Eurozone never bailed on ESO's PvP unlike the "cowardly Americans" it appears...

Eurozone verisions of MMORPGs have always been better at organization as a matter of course... however to suggest that complete destruction of EVERYTHING is a good thing is ludacrious. Even if your guild is 500 members... it cannot have everyone in game on your guild. There has to be a meta community that is stable that goes beyond "the guild". That used to exist on the servers lucky enough to have it... and now it is being taken away there is no point in playing a game such as ESO, which apparently as of today, no longer value communities...

thelg

How about this..

2 campaigns with 3 month duration. Wabbajack, AB

2 with 2 weeks duration (CRAP REWARDS)

2 With lame ass 5 day duration (NO REWARDS but you get a special prize *wink* *wink*)

Baby under VR campaign with AA Rank limit set to 4-5.

Or just call it a game and turn cyrodil into Alterac Valley and be done with it.