Upcoming Campaign Changes

frwinters_ESO

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for the info Brian.

Everything looks great to me except having a Vet only campaign, there is no need for one and it will divid players and guilds who want to play togeather. I want all my low level guild mates to be able to come with me on guild runs in Cyrodiil. but i also want to see the "hardcore" enemy players and guilds as they are a challenge to fight. The issue was non vet players not being able to compete but now they will have their own non vet campaign.

If you look back at DAOC there was no rule that non 50s could go to the frontiers... they were there all the time to join in and help their realm even when they were at disadvantage. they would come out to defend their relics and so on. Seeing the "real" battle gave them a reason to keep leveling and to push themselves. if they wanted to compete in an equal battle they could go to the battle grounds, which will be just like the pre vet campaigns now.

I think Vet only campaigns are a bad idea and will subtract the importance feel that Cyrodiil gives. I like having low level players there, it makes me feel like my sides future is there and i have sense that i am fighting for them and protecting them even.

Well I agree that we don't need a vet only campaign, but honestly we do not know. This is why @zos_brianwheeler said they are going with this setup for now. Its to monitor what the players do. If the vet only campaign ends up being really dead, then they know to end it. That's why its only what 5 days or 7 i forget. If it is dead, they can end it, change the parameters and try something new. These are all tests and adjustments. Hell when the Imperial City comes out, the campaigns might just fill up then we will need more! The game will go through many changes and the developers have to change with our patterns.

bellanca6561n

Or just separate the two, Enodoc, much like they do with monster play in Lord of the Rings Online.....well....except better

Basically you'd have a separate character for Cyrodiil that you'd roll there. 20 attribute points, 30 skill points and a max armor and weapon class between 20 and 30.

Enchantments through achievements, provisions through NPCs, no bank sharing with your non-Cyrodiil characters. Crafted gear from Cyrodiil resources only, made at crafting stations there that would become capturable and defendable assets as well.

Resource type could be segregated into specific regions, setting up missions aimed at acquiring them, adding to diversity of objectives.

This character has a separate history and story arc. After all, who, after playing all sides as you do in the PvE story could take sides anymore? This is why I couldn't play my VR character except to craft after a point.

Thus a separate PvP character has richer and more believable RP possibilities as well. Yes, that's a bit old school of me but it really can add a lot to online gaming, particularly when rolled into the core of things rather than tucked away into esoterica.

For dedicated residents of Skinner Box Lane, achievements there could go into that future pool of points replacing the ones currently applied to veteran rank.

Kewljag_66_ESO

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for the info Brian.

Everything looks great to me except having a Vet only campaign, there is no need for one and it will divid players and guilds who want to play togeather. I want all my low level guild mates to be able to come with me on guild runs in Cyrodiil. but i also want to see the "hardcore" enemy players and guilds as they are a challenge to fight. The issue was non vet players not being able to compete but now they will have their own non vet campaign.

If you look back at DAOC there was no rule that non 50s could go to the frontiers... they were there all the time to join in and help their realm even when they were at disadvantage. they would come out to defend their relics and so on. Seeing the "real" battle gave them a reason to keep leveling and to push themselves. if they wanted to compete in an equal battle they could go to the battle grounds, which will be just like the pre vet campaigns now.

I think Vet only campaigns are a bad idea and will subtract the importance feel that Cyrodiil gives. I like having low level players there, it makes me feel like my sides future is there and i have sense that i am fighting for them and protecting them even.

Rofl, non vet campaign is the first reasonable thing they are planning to do.
Yet if they won't allow you to turn off the XP gain it will be pointless anyway.

Yes i agree a non vet campaign is great, I said we don't need Vet ONLY campaigns.

And without xp off It wouldn't be pointless....... The whole point is so non vets can compete and learn PVP,itds like a training campaign, its not a perminate campaign for a character, Its a campaign to learn pvp and move on to the real war campaigns.

If you turn off xp then people will just stay in the easy mode 'training" campaign, The main goal is to progress your character and compete with others. not stay in the training campaign and prey on begginers. Some people will stay until they get to be emperor and then have the perminate passives. How is that fair to those who those who have been fighting in the real campaigns at vet 12, why should some lower level and lower allliance rank player get that over them, they never got that oppertunity.

And the worse part is people will turn their exp off at level 49 with max skills, then get a full suit of legendary gear. How is a level 10 or 20 suppose to compete then? Its basically the same problem now and would destroy the who purpose of a Pre vet campaign where you get to be on equal grounds with others and learn to PVP in a training like campaign.

bellanca6561n

Oh, and finally, it would be nice to apply a heraldry scheme and alliance themed armor styles more strictly associated with specific Cyrodiil campaigns.

I'm thinking more simulation and a bit less fantasy. Armor that makes sense and serves to protect you by design, avoiding amusing but ludicrous moments such as this....

beka

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

Rofl, non vet campaign is the first reasonable thing they are planning to do.
Yet if they won't allow you to turn off the XP gain it will be pointless anyway.

I think the point of the non-vet campaign is to give lower level players a chance to PvP without getting roflstomped by vets. Putting them in a position to be roflstomped by level 49 twinks in legendary gear really isn't much of an improvement.

Boomjackal

Getting really tired and bored of cyrodil, it is so repetative, yer the imperial city looks awesome to but massive group zergs are just unforfilling to me. To put the icing on the cake it would be awesome if we got some small scale pvp action without any NPC players what so ever, 15 vs 15, 10 vs 10 battles, and also arena were people can really test their skills. I understand the combat response needs some ironing first but it would be nice to know that this is coming fairly soon.

Even mini games capture the flag good old fashioned awesomness 25 vs 25. We need a break from cyrodil from time to time its siphoning the life out of me as of late and i know alot of my guild players agree.

P.s PVP players only do PVP so as it stands the only thing to do in this game for us is cyrodil 'yawn.'

Schmit

Adramelach wrote: »

For the short-to-medium term, I would suggest not raising the AP cost to switch, since we will be "experimenting" with these new changes just as you are, and if we lock ourselves into a new form of campaign type that we wind up quicklyi not liking, it would be very annoying to have to save up 100,000 ap just to correct that.

Certainly, I think it would make experimentation with these new forms far less frequent.

I have to agree, 100,000 AP? not everyone grinds enough to compete to be at the top of the scoreboard, some people may have trouble earning that much AP in a single campaign.

bellanca6561n

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

If you turn off xp then people will just stay in the easy mode 'training" campaign, The main goal is to progress your character and compete with others. not stay in the training campaign and prey on begginers. Some people will stay until they get to be emperor and then have the perminate passives. How is that fair to those who those who have been fighting in the real campaigns at vet 12, why should some lower level and lower allliance rank player get that over them, they never got that oppertunity.

And the worse part is people will turn their exp off at level 49 with max skills, then get a full suit of legendary gear. How is a level 10 or 20 suppose to compete then? Its basically the same problem now and would destroy the who purpose of a Pre vet campaign where you get to be on equal grounds with others and learn to PVP in a training like campaign.

Turning off XP should be something the player does, not the game.

And I agree that the last thing many players want is a fair fight. Plus there is no way to enforce such a thing. This is why I like the idea of separate Cyrodiil characters built under different rule sets.

Right now we have EVERY character built under a rule set meant to battle ludicrously powerful fantasy monsters, not players.

That's why I suggested, as an opening bid, 20 attribute points, 30 skill points and THAT'S IT. Yeah, the Skinner Box addicts won't like it but they're not going to stick around anyway. They bail the moment you stop giving them more toys.

What many of your are interpreting as training mode or low level is not anything of the sort. It's skill and teamwork based PvP, not religion based PvP built on a mandatory period of prerequisite devotion and suffering.

The combat system is already skill based at its core.

Yes, you have to be able to add to your character (well...I concede that this has *become* a requirement). But if lumber mills were, y'know, lumber mills and you had mines that produced metal, and other actual resource and/or production facilities, characters could create better gear through group achievement....say, holding onto such things for an extended period of time.

Thus you tie player advancement to group achievement and have campaigns with objectives that make sense.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

beka wrote: »

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

Rofl, non vet campaign is the first reasonable thing they are planning to do.
Yet if they won't allow you to turn off the XP gain it will be pointless anyway.

I think the point of the non-vet campaign is to give lower level players a chance to PvP without getting roflstomped by vets. Putting them in a position to be roflstomped by level 49 twinks in legendary gear really isn't much of an improvement.

49 twink will have one advantage - skill unlocked and levele up.
Gear has no impact on anyone. You will have same stats in legendary as you would in white.

But you are right. With job that ZOS is proving they will [snip] this up and make 49 player who turns battle level off more powerfull than level 10.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Merlight

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

... so in the longer duration campaigns many players felt like Sisyphus unable to ever catch up. Sure the response could be "play more" but simply put, not all players can do that, and we want to offer a chance for them to get on top of a leaderboard and feel rewarded.

In my opinion that has nothing to do with campaign duration. If you can't make it to top 20, it's because there's 20+ people playing more/better than you. How does that change on a shorter campaign, if it's similary populated?

How about scaling AP gains according to the victim's AP score? Killing a bunch of peeps who are at the bottom of the leaderboard over and over should not give you as much AP as killing people from the top 10, should it?

Observant

Merlight wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

... so in the longer duration campaigns many players felt like Sisyphus unable to ever catch up. Sure the response could be "play more" but simply put, not all players can do that, and we want to offer a chance for them to get on top of a leaderboard and feel rewarded.

In my opinion that has nothing to do with campaign duration. If you can't make it to top 20, it's because there's 20+ people playing more/better than you. How does that change on a shorter campaign, if it's similary populated?

How about scaling AP gains according to the victim's AP score? Killing a bunch of peeps who are at the bottom of the leaderboard over and over should not give you as much AP as killing people from the top 10, should it?

Think of it like an exponential function; the variance between our scores grow over time. Less of a score gap, less time required to move up in the ranks.

bruceb14_ESO5

It is surprising that with all of the comments and suggestions in this thread that what is coming out is just what OP suggested. Feedback/Suggestions were asked for.

Just one campaign longer than a week seems to be a problem. We have difficulties now with high population zones and we have complaints over zergs. Put too many people in one place and it is fairly easy to guess that both will come up. Reading the posts in this thread since it originated I didn't get the feeling that the majority of people wanted 5-7 day campaigns, some did, but certainly not 80%. 4/5 campaigns 80% 1 week and less.

Interesting to see how it goes. I am curious about the thinking behind the decision.

meaghs

would be nice to have more than one campaign that will last longer than a week. Otherwise totally agree with the suggestions, especially a non-vet learning campaign!

demonlkojipub19_ESO

I think one of two things should be done with at least one campaign.

1)time of day: give bonus ap and hourly points during peak hours.

2)population points: as an alliances population increases in bars, decrease the amount of hourly alliance points earned for that alliance.

Bigtuna

If you can fix the math so that the game can handle zerg groups, spamming the abilities you have made central to PvP, that would be a huge step forward.

Turelus

Well ZOS congratulations on 23 pages of ignored feedback on how Thornblade is going to be a locked, laggy mess.
GL dealing with all the rage threads when no one is able to play their home campaign at peak times, we tried to warn you. :P

augyr

Only one 30-day campaign is not going to be enough i think, the queue will be huge.

Seraph702

How are they different from prior campaigns like for instance what was the population cap per server for Wabajack, now that you have downsized the amount of available servers have you increased the pop cap of ea faction by increasing the available infrastructure. do you plan to increase the server capabilities by upgrading server infrastructure in the future to enable a larger competition for emp.
Would really like a detailed insider for my Guild cause we are going to go into the "pvp scene" really hard. Would really love a q&a interview with a dev or community manager.
Thanks

Forztr

I called it earlier in this thread, entire asking for feedback was a joke, not a single change from the original post. So basically they're saying we nailed it at the first attempt and all you who had a different view were wrong. Well we tried and if it all works out then great I'll eat humble pie but if we the community are proved right then I hope the lead PVP dude get canned for incompetence.

As an aside did they change NPCs back to level 50 for the lowbie campaign or are the lowbies going to get one/two shot by VR5 NPCs?

frwinters_ESO

Its amazing to me that after the first night last night, Thornblade, the 30 day free for all campaign is the most popular. All locked up, large ques. Looked at the rest of the campaigns and there pops were super low. I don't think I saw the 14 day campaign had AD at two bars. Even the Vet and Non Vet campaigns were super low. I know its only been one day, but I was hoping to see more of a spread between the campaigns. Now with a 3 day lockout we wont see much movement.

torstenb16_ESO8

Are you idots ? Where are the camapains ? only one campain and its full right now at early afternoon.....What to you think, what camapain a complety guild should play with different char level ? Teamplay is not possible because lots of guild members now set different campains.Do you think vet charaters will got with other Guild members in low level camapins? The main campain is full and you will get now 5 to 10 Frames for pvp and game will stuck an freeze.
Why you destroyed my completly build ????????
In Gw2 you only have only one campaign/server or server vs server and one campaign when server is full.Thats it.
So 3 campains like it was in the past was enough.
And why shields give now protection and dont reduce damage like shields should do?
We have lots of buffs who will increase the armor and protection.

You had mega laggs in pvp before patch and now you reduced alle to one main campain and now you will have mege mega laggs....

Whats going on in your brains zenimax. Seems like you want that the last aktive players leaves teso now ?

frank.bindb16_ESO

A big problem is to have only 1 30-days campaign now. It will be full the whole evening and you cannot play it, if you come back home late. From one extreme to the the other extreme. There should be a middle way.

I hope they will learn soon and open1 or 2 more 30 days campaigns.

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO

A complete waste of time!

Next time listen to your players!

frwinters_ESO

They should have went with 2 30 days, maybe the 14 day and probably that would be it. Im sure its easier to Add campaigns as needed then take them away. If those campaigns do not gain in popularity there will still be emperor farming most likely, even with the AP increases and three day lockout.

Amiarah

We need more 30 day campaigns. There are very long queues to Thornblade and looking at the other campaigns, there are not a lot of the others that are occupied or even close to being well populated. Crashes every 30 minutes and long long queues will make the pvp experience a low priority for most of the people I know, even the ones that are pvp interested. They now gather flowers instead. That´s how bad it has been today.

frank.bindb16_ESO

That is if you ignore the players. Now we have exactly the situation the players prognosticated.

- 1 full campain with much lags
- full waiting queues
- rest of campaigns are nearly empty

pvp is no fun now, It's nearly impossible to make guild pvp now, cause you can't get all guildmembers into the campaign in acceptable time. Very sad situation for pvp interested gamers.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

guys, how do you do it? Seriously... how do you do that you can never ever fulfill at least one stupid task...

NON VETERAN CAMPAING WITH VETERAN 5 NPCS!
this is what please? Another spit in our face?

Not to mention that recent patch MADE ME to DELETE the whole game and download it again, becasue launcher got bugged again and stated some error, then I used repair and the game checked all files and happily started to download the WHOLE game again. This happend to me when the game went from beta to early access. What it did? It downloaded the whole 30GB and fired the error again so to play the game for early access I had to delete 60GBs in total and download the new 30 GBs.

Latest patch did the same crap. So Instead of downloading the 30GBs I deleted the whole game and reinstalled it. Great stuff for some minor update...

then I try the only thing that could convince me to play PVP more... ok I got ambushed by a guy and as level 10 NB I took him down. Awsome.. then I killed some more guys awsome! No more getting killed in less than a second. I was very happy really. Then I reach keep... oh what a surprise... not only NPCs sees you miles away, they also deal masive damage, becasue they are veteran fives...

you guys are doing this deliberately. I can´t help mysefl.

Xsorus

I'd just have two 30 Day Campaigns, and one Non Vet campaign.

No point in the others.

cannabisking

I find it very sad that the 30 day camp is full and when no-one can get into it, they guest 7 day and call it a "dual" grp.... But sure seemed to most of us that showed up out of no where a farming of AP for guest and those who werent guest, farming of rank... After 20 yr's of MMO's pvp's, I understand that there is going to be someone or a grp of players who will want to find a way to beat the system because of their sup-par ability to play their class right. Am I saying not to spar each other? No I am not but, Cyrodiil doesnt have a spar area set up for that.

Draxys

I am also in favor of two 30 day camps, and maybe a 14 day and one non-vet camp.