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Re: The critter massacre in the challenge zones
Cin_Vhetin wrote: »Rishikesa108 wrote: »
What are you talking about, no logic? There IS logic, even if you don't like it or agree with it. Whether it's people or animals, it's still A GAME. Neither real people nor real animals are being harmed in any way.
Aren't dogs and cats pixels too?
Why can't these animals be killed if reality has nothing to do with it, if it's just a game, if they're all just pixels?
Why are obscene acts like teabagging strictly and rightly prohibited if they're just pixels doing things to other pixels?
It's true, we're in a video game, but in reality, there are people behind the keyboards, with feelings.
The pixels are realistic, and we're playing in an immersive environment.
I don't find anything strange in feeling disgusted at killing innocent creatures who can't even defend themselves.
I find it weirder when someone does it without even a flinch.
The difference between pixels is whether or not there is a real person using those pixels as a depiction/avatar of themselves, then it becomes player vs player which is why there are all kinds of rules regarding interactions within that context. Pixels that are not avatars of real people do not have the same rules, nor should they or we would not have a game at all. Imagine the protests for the trampled rights of lich, imps, or Molag Bal, real life protesters all lined up outside Zenimax HQ.
So, immersing yourself in the avatar is correct, but immersing yourself in the surrounding environment is not?
BretonMage wrote: »No argument there. I happen to dislike the tendency to armchair psychoanalyse strangers so common on social media these days, so that's not what I'm doing here. People can have different reasons for doing or enjoying the things they do.
Some of us enjoy being somewhat immersed in our fantasy world, though of course this being an MMO, we share the space with those who just see targets to aim at. Which is expected. However I don't really need to be lectured that these are just pixels by the latter group. I mean, obviously I know that, but I pay to experience a fantasy world, so I'd like to be able to enjoy it in one of the intended ways and without judgement or condescension.
You get the point.
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
Hi ZOS,
Stop doing this, the majority of your PvP base does not want this washed game mode. We don’t want to contribute anything to your “testing” because we are against it. Frankly, it’s a waste of time. With all the good that’s being done recently in the studio this is the remaining outlier of a team clinging to one last bad decision. It feels like we’re just being reminded to stay skeptical of the PvP dev team’s vacuum decision making philosophy.
*edit*
Can we test PvE Vengeance on April 20th too?
Basically, your best option is to participate as early as it goes live, and spam dmg aoes en masse.
If all PvPers and their grannies show up and help testing whether the cap of 6 will or will not melt down the servers, we might be done with that test in a couple of days.
Boycotts are pointless now, Vengeance will go live, so if you want to have GH back faster then help test this change.
Not to mention that this test is perhaps the most important - in a megazerg environment such as Vengeance we need bombing more than ever, and a cap of 3 on dmg aoe is ridiculous beyond belief.
Ah yes, that’s right…. Hancho always has a reason or incentive for us to play Vengeance, in this case it’s so we can get GH back faster lol. What a joke. No thanks, hope they limit your AoEs to one person and yall can enjoy those Megabanger battles you mentioned at 61fps.
You can show your bad faith all you want, but the point stands: whining about a one-week test is pathetic when there is a practical solution to shorten its duration.
Re: I’m not convinced that these battle passes are a good fit for ESO.
katanagirl1 wrote: »So far it has been much more time for me than the old endeavors and I think I am on page 4 of the tome now. I do a lot of different game activities, but farming world bosses and overland creatures is not it either. If I continue to engage with the game in this manner I will begin to loathe logging in and play some other game where I don’t have a chore list.
Same. I said in another thread that I feel more pressure to log in and do specific tasks now than I did when we just had endeavors and golden pursuits. It's even had me considering how much I want to engage with the tomes at all, as in maybe I should just put them on ignore, and any tome points I earn will come naturally. If that means I can't buy a lot of the shinies, so be it.
It's the unlocking of the pages that kills it for me. Stuff on later pages doesn't just cost 300 points or whatever. It actually costs 300+the thousands of points you need to unlock the page. If all the pages were unlocked from the start, I wouldn't feel like I have to be on that hamster wheel, running as fast as I can. As it is, I've already decided to reduce my time in-game to what it was pre-tomes, and again, if that means no shinies, fine, but it certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm also reconsidering buying the premium tomes - no point if I can't get the later pages unlocked unless I'm willing to increase my play time at the expense of other things I have to do or enjoy doing. I'm not willing to do that.
AzuraFan
8
Re: It's time to NERF new DK.
Militan1404 wrote: »And whats the plan? Put every class in line with the dk so everyone can run around one shoting players like it’s an shoot’em up. It also putting players of the game, lots of guildes have left becouse of it, and cyro is only complains about it, and the game is emtyer than ever so it certenly didnt bring inn anymore players.
Yes. Because all of the reworked DKs that fight each other end up one-shotting each other.
Oh, wait. That never happens.
I desperately want the plan to be bring every class to the level DK is at right now. DK has a complete kit, and I’m sure all the other class reworks will, too, if the devs continue the pattern they started with DK.
And no, PvP is not empty. Every night for the past week on PCNA, there’s a nearly hour-long queue to get into GH. Lots of fights and activity happen in Cyro, and I can count one hand the number of people I’ve personally witnessed openly complain about the new DK.
Re: Tier List of Werewolf Puns in Patch Notes (U42 & U50)
Your nose knows! is definitely top tier
Re: Scrying and Excavating Takes Too Long to Level Up
ShadowPaladin wrote: »I've already been playing this game for several years. Why would I want every step for a thing that I have already done and spent so much time on to continue to keep taking forever?
We also have lives to participate in outside of MMOs.
I'm not going to redo all of the psijic, legerdemain, scrying, mages guild, etc lines whenever I decide to have another character that is used just to run a 10 minute daily dungeon before logging out. Or to log in on only when I decide to run an occasional trial with a guild.
What value do you see in making things unnecessarily slow to repeat something that has already been achieved and earned?
First, let me give you answers to your questions.
Why would I want every step for a thing that I have already done and spent so much time on to continue to keep taking forever?
It doesn't matter what *you* want. For most MMOs the design is set up in a way that players have to do certain things, level certain skills, etc., because that is a form of content in MMOs. Also, it is a way to animate (some would say force) players to play a game for a certain amount of time. The longer people play a game (are online) the better it is for the company managing / owning the game (thats the business).
If *you* don't want to this, then you must ask yourself one of two things. Is playing multiple chars really the thing I should be doing or should I really be playing a MMO at all.
At the end it all comes down to what Alastrine already said. If you got problems with time because in your life you only got a bit of it for games, you should not play games which take alot of time to play. It is as simple as that (I can tell you from personal experiences).
Regarding your other question.
What value do you see in making things unnecessarily slow to repeat something that has already been achieved and earned?
The "value" lies in the time you are online playing the game. BUT(!) that "value" isn't a value for you. It is one for the company managing / owning the game. As I wrote before. The longer people play the game / stay online, the better it is for business. And how can you animate (force) people to stay longer online than by giving them stuff to repeat over and over again, which always takes a certain amount of time.
By the way. Guess why companies introduced all those (fancy but stupid) things people can buy for real money to take short-cuts and get things faster, although they could get them for free simply by playing the game. It is because people want all as fast as possible without spending much time acquiring it. Selling such things to those (more or less simple minded folks) is a great business opportunity. Even Scrooge McDuck himself couldn't have thought of something better do to, to earn a lot of money and even Ferengies wouldn't have come up with something better!
- "You always know what to expect when you do business with the Ferengi."
- "Which is why, if you're smart, you don't do business with the Ferengi."
So in regards to ZOS reducing the time it's takes to research traits, level mounts, level companions, the constraints of logins/endeavors; and removing the cost to some crown store upgrade purchases... that was all because ZOS saw people asking for these things and said "Well it doesn't matter what YOU want. We are an MMO! YOU should go find a different game, duh!" ???
There is a balancing act in business between respecting players desires, and pursuing what could squeeze the most out of players' wallets and time. Yes, in theory keeping people on the game by every stretch possible could be seen as better for business. But then you look at the practicality of situations for some folks like me, and like the many others who have asked for class change tokens due to wanting to continue playing their investments into the game, and you can see there is also a reality where people will disengage because the goal post's distance is not worth repeating the race over and over again. And those people are not going to spend the absolutely absurd and insulting amount of money it takes to buy the fast upgrades.
Malyore
1
Re: Can we get an update about the working on crossplay/ cross progression please?
here is your update: not 2026
Re: The critter massacre in the challenge zones
Except...they AREN'T created to seem life-like. They walk back and forth infinitely on a coded path, do coded actions like occasionally like fighting another or sitting, they don't eat, procreate, drink, expel waste, and so on.BretonMage wrote: »That whole "people with functioning empathy" line is a hell of a statement, because it implies people who kill non-living things in a game somehow lack it. I'm one of the most empathatic people I know, I cry super easily when others are upset or during sad scenes in games or movies. I abhor real-world violence and it gets me REALLY mad when I hear about things like animals or people being abused or killed. But there is a big difference between getting emotionally attached to characters and getting emotionally attached to Random NPC Animal #5,301.BretonMage wrote: »I'm going to assume this is a joke post/satire or something, but in case it isn't...I hate to say this, but it's a game. If you don't want to kill animals you don't have to, but let's not try to impose real-world morals on a video game or claim that 'killing' pixels on a screen is 'slaughter'. Also you already seem to know that mobs in Delves/Dungeons not counting is a bug, so the whole "is this fair" thing is kind of a moot point anyway.
If we feel our sensibilities stung by senseless slaughter, it's because it's natural for people with functioning empathy to feel for the suffering of others, and often even when we know the others aren't real. I mean, if games are "just games", what's the point of feeling moved by the characters of Baldur's Gate or Expedition 33? Or, for that matter, Romeo and Juliet?
Not saying I'd actually condemn the players who kill innocents in the game, but it's not pleasant to see either.
I'm not going to dictate how you play your game, and honestly, if I want to feel emotions like pity or compassion for those in a fictional fantasy universe created to seem life-like, then I think I have that freedom to do so. That's one of the great things about games, you have a choice to relate to it in the way you want. So just as you can choose to treat these animals as mere pixels, so too can I choose to see Tamriel as a living, breathing world.
Like someone else said, you can feel a certain way about things but there comes a point where it's taken to extremes. But the thing I most have a problem with is your implication that people who treat the game as a game and nothing more somehow lack "functional empathy".
What are you talking about, no logic? There IS logic, even if you don't like it or agree with it. Whether it's people or animals, it's still A GAME. Neither real people nor real animals are being harmed in any way.Rishikesa108 wrote: »Dogs and cats aren't killable because ESO is based in the United States, where those animals are pets and NOT game or livestock animals. But all the animals you CAN kill? They are actually hunted irl (the ones that exist irl anyway) for food and other things, or are livestock animals that are raised as food or for leather, milk, and so on. Pigs, goats, squirrels, rabbits, elk, deer, etc are all animals that get hunted or raised as livestock.
You say, "Cats and dogs are pets, so it's only right that they're unkillable." But in this game, you can kill people... what's the logic?
Actually, there's no logic.
I'm not shocked by killing people; in fact, I do it often with my nightblade.
It's an action that requires a certain skill, so it makes sense in a game.
I kill mudcrabs because they give me chitin, but these are animals that have a health line on their heads and, even if weak, they defend themselves in a certain way and attack if attacked.
But killing animals with 1 hp, which mostly don't give anything I already have tons of in my infinite bag, just for the fun of watching them moan and blow up... disgusts me. And I'm annoyed that ZOS encourages it.
In fact, ZOS should provide a toggle so that anyone who wants to can avoid inadvertently killing them, as well as a "prevent attacking innocents" feature.
This game has repeatedly demonstrated its consideration for the rights of minorities.
I am part of a minority, of which I am proud.
The minority of those who have total respect for animals and don't even eat them, obviously.
I regret that the sensibilities of this minority are not protected by ZOS like other minorities worthy of equal respect.
On top of that, you're making COMPLETELY and frankly inappropriate claims that people "do it for fun" or want to "hear them moan". You're 100% projecting real-life morals to, yet again, a video game. You're acting like people are doing this becuase they want to geninuely harm animals or something. By that logic, I guess that means people who play evil characters must condone and want to do the things their characters do?
Sure, ZOS can make it that "Prevent Attacking Innocents" applies to critters, but that would probably annoy people more than it wouldn't if they wanted to not attack people but then had to turn it off to farm critters. The most use it would get is so people didn't drop their Ult on a random rabbit or something while fighting. And they could make a separate toggle for it, sure, but it's unlikely they would because who even knows what kind of coding that would look like.
Finally, stop bringing up minorities. They have no place in this conversation and trying to shoehorn them in is comparing apples to tires. You aren't a "minority" because you don't like that critters can be killed and are bothered by it. Trying to use them to prop up your argument is NOT a good look.
Arunei
9
Re: The critter massacre in the challenge zones
BretonMage wrote: »If we feel our sensibilities stung by senseless slaughter, it's because it's natural for people with functioning empathy to feel for the suffering of others, and often even when we know the others aren't real.
"Functioning empathy" - this is either coming from a very emotionally loaded position or from a dangerous moral high ground.
Empathy can absolutely present itself in an unhealthy, exaggerated measure.
What you described and the weight with which you are taking it indicates you may be on the far side where considering making a step back wouldn't hurt, infact it would be very much advised.
Keep control of your empathy, and set limits: fighting to change something legit for others because you are suffering for dead pixels should be one, unless those are on your newly purchased expensive TV.
Glad Arunei has already argued for my same viewpoint so I don't need to add more.
EDIT: btw, I completed the challenge in the first hour - my lovely chub loons
Re: The critter massacre in the challenge zones
I would also be careful on the empathy arguments. People can have functioning empathy without being empathetic towards *everything*. What really matters is if people treat people, animals, and plants well in real life.
No argument there. I happen to dislike the tendency to armchair psychoanalyse strangers so common on social media these days, so that's not what I'm doing here. People can have different reasons for doing or enjoying the things they do.
Some of us enjoy being somewhat immersed in our fantasy world, though of course this being an MMO, we share the space with those who just see targets to aim at. Which is expected. However I don't really need to be lectured that these are just pixels by the latter group. I mean, obviously I know that, but I pay to experience a fantasy world, so I'd like to be able to enjoy it in one of the intended ways and without judgement or condescension.