I’m not convinced that these battle passes are a good fit for ESO.

couriersix · April 7

AScarlato wrote: »

couriersix wrote: »

The only other game I've played with a battlepass-like system is Dead by Daylight, so that's my main frame of reference. DBD's battlepass system genuinely sucks, often with far more tedious and hyper-specific challenges, and you don't even get to keep the battlepass after purchasing it, so if you fail to complete it, then you are SOL.

I think ESO's isn't horrible, but it could be better. I was able to get more than halfway through it relatively quickly. I think one way they could alleviate the need to do challenges is by adding additional sources of tome points, such as gaining experience, or turning in quests. This would help people feel less reliant on challenges, and would reward people for playing the game naturally.

Did you get through it with ESO+ points, or just from the free pass points itself?

I'm on Page 3, but due to inventory overload I bought a month of ESO+ so that jumped me up a page.

I did end up using a cache for it since I wasn't sure what it was when I opened it, but without it, I'd be on page 5. My challenges for this week + last week took me both around a day or so to complete.

AScarlato · April 7

couriersix wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

couriersix wrote: »

The only other game I've played with a battlepass-like system is Dead by Daylight, so that's my main frame of reference. DBD's battlepass system genuinely sucks, often with far more tedious and hyper-specific challenges, and you don't even get to keep the battlepass after purchasing it, so if you fail to complete it, then you are SOL.

I think ESO's isn't horrible, but it could be better. I was able to get more than halfway through it relatively quickly. I think one way they could alleviate the need to do challenges is by adding additional sources of tome points, such as gaining experience, or turning in quests. This would help people feel less reliant on challenges, and would reward people for playing the game naturally.

Did you get through it with ESO+ points, or just from the free pass points itself?

I'm on Page 3, but due to inventory overload I bought a month of ESO+ so that jumped me up a page.

I did end up using a cache for it since I wasn't sure what it was when I opened it, but without it, I'd be on page 5. My challenges for this week + last week took me both around a day or so to complete.

Not bad. I didn't do much in Week 1 as it was all gathering and I couldn't do that to myself

KapiteinBoterham · April 7

6 free crown crates is 6 free crown crates.

Faltasë · April 7

I agree. At times this system feels like they want us to make it a second job. Would be nice if they made it feel like we were playing a game again and not going out of our way to grind some more... When 89% of the game is already centered around grinding in some form or fashion.

spartaxoxo · April 7

I think Battlepasses are a good fit for ESO but not as implemented. They should really be closer to how the endeavors were. Also perhaps earning exp should increment them.

The thing I like about battle passes is that the ones I used were basically a loyalty reward that you can do paid upgrades on. I never really worry about completing one on time and they don't make play way out what I normally enjoy doing. That core concept seems a good fit but the current implementation leaves something to be desired.

DrMedBorn · April 7

I totally agree. I didn't finish one of the tasks because they all sound like grind

DrMedBorn · April 7

It should have different settings like only for pvp, group, quests, crating and so on

Ratzkifal · April 7

I feel the underlying issue here boils down to people wanting to do what they are always doing and remain in their comfort zone, and the devs wanting to get people to step out of their comfort zone a bit and try out content that they otherwise wouldn't.
I understand why people don't want to do a trial, or do an arena or something. But I'm also seeing that as a result of tomes going live a lot of people are now grouping up to complete these tasks. I've seen more interest in completing group arenas, I've personally started doing more trials as a result, because getting 400 tome points while farming that one set from that one trial seemed like a good way to spend my time to me.
So in that regard, I think tomes are a huge success already. But what people should get rid off is the attitude. Reroll the activities you dislike. ZOS already said they are looking into allowing more rerolls for gold in Update50 so you never have to feel like you have to do a task that you hate after getting it on your final reroll. While season passes might be a better fit for other game genres, that doesn't make tomes a bad fit for ESO. We are getting all of our new content for free now. Tomes are more profitable for players than Endeavors were. You don't need to do your chores daily but you can spread them throughout the week as you see fit. Where is the downside? Sure, we can improve the individual tasks, like replacing specific named dungeon bosses to kill with completing pledges (any difficulty), but other than that?
I think the addition of Tomes is a much needed breath of fresh air for this old game and the fact that people who bought the chapters and kept their ESO+ all year don't even need to pay extra for it makes it all the better.

Ingel_Riday · April 7

AScarlato wrote: »

League of Legends passes are the same way. Just play and you will finish them. Doing like you said about Marvel Rivals, just doing what you do to have fun anyway.

Tamriel Tomes are disruptive. I have to drop what I find fun and go chase after pointless tasks with no lore or immersion reasons. I really dislike this aspect.

I wish they generalized more tasks.

Gathering should group them into "gather any node."
Instead of Specific dungeon bosses, "Any Dungeon Boss".

They could cover a lot of playstyles at least for different player interests, without micromanaging my time.

There are a lot of great responses and I'd love to do 'em all justice, but I'm kind of pressed for time for personal reasons... so I'm going to cherry-pick this one. :-P

I agree with the above assessment. I just got my new weekly challenges. Interesting times.

Let's see...

- Collect 15 runestones... six times. 90 total. Guess I get to turn on a podcast and pixel hunt. Everyone is going to be hunting for them, too, so it's going to take quite a while. What grand adventure.
- Collect 15 logs (again)... six times. 90 total. Ditto. Ugh. Last time I did this, there was no wood to be found in all of Betnikh, but plenty of iron and alchemy plants. People were skipping those to rush down the timber. It let me know what misery awaited me, haha.
- Defeat the Kvatch Arena World Boss... five times. So I get to hope that there's a crowd that also has this awful challenge, wait five minutes for him to spawn, kill him, wait another five minutes, kill him, and then do it another three times. Good thing I have my book about Panama.
- Complete 1 Arena... twice. Okay. Genuinely okay. I haven't done the arenas on five of my alts, and ZOS didn't needlessly specify a singular arena so I can do whichever ones I want. Okay. 100% okay. If I was a group fellow, I could do Blackrose. If I was a raid fellow, I could do Dragonstar Arena. I'm a solo fellow, so I'll do the solo one in The Reach for giggles.
- Kill 20 shadowy daedra... six times. 120 total. Okay. Plenty of places to kill Daedra and Daedra from anywhere count. I can do dolmens or story quests or multiple landmarks or the public dungeon in Coldharbour. Okay. 100% okay. Nothing too tedious here and nobody is asking me to kill 1,000 overland mobs in one specific zone.

CatalinaWineMixer2 asked how I normally play this game. Truth be told, I flip a coin to decide which alt to play and then just go for it. I spent most of the vacation from chores playing my cryomancer warden. Earned a bunch of skyshards, did almost all the side-quest landmarks in Alik'r, loved the old writing, built up my reputation with Mirri, and explored. Only played every three to four days, and it felt good. Just casual meandering joy whenever I so chose. It was an actual Elder Scrolls experience.

The above are three disruptions and two activites that sync up. So I'm only going to be bored part of the time this week. Yay?

But hey, at least I'm not a pvp'er. If I was one of the dedicated pvp aficionados who live, breathe, and eat that mode, these would almost all be utterly, wretchedly awful. I guess the shadowy daedra would work via Imperial City, but boy howdy... ugh. I'm waiting for the inevitable week where all the challenges are pvp-themed and I get my come-uppance with a list of chores so against my grain that I can't even be bothered to look at them. Or a week where we are all expected to pickpocket 100 npcs in Hew's Bane and learn to loathe each other with passionate zeal. :-P

"But hey, you could re-roll them until you got lucky and got some pvp challenges. And then when you run out of re-rolls, you can buy MORE re-rolls. Make a problem and sell the solution. That's game design, baby." - Mr. Strawman

Oh well. I'm glad some of you are enjoying this. I'm going to go play Crimson Desert and then earn an Adam Warlock costume in Marvel Rivals. My heart isn't in this today, outside of maybe scoping out Kvatch. If I wait too long, everyone will be done with the awful specific challenge and I'll be reduced to begging for help in chat. What wonders ESO has to show me.

Edit addition: I tried to include a screenshot of my own chore-list, but I think my Necromancer is NSFW. Haha. Heck yeah. That was what I was aiming for with the alluring costume, hairstyle, and makeup. Character customization victory achieved, I guess.

peacenote · April 8

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I feel the underlying issue here boils down to people wanting to do what they are always doing and remain in their comfort zone, and the devs wanting to get people to step out of their comfort zone a bit and try out content that they otherwise wouldn't.

Maybe for some people. But I'm a player who enjoys almost all content and, so far, I'm enjoying Tamriel Tomes a lot less than what it replaced. I don't do this a lot, but I'm going to quote myself from another thread.

In my opinion, what matters the most here regarding whether Tomes are "fun" and a net positive is if most players are able to get more free rewards - ones that they like - more easily and flexibly than they were with the daily login/endeavor system previously. And I am not sure that is the case, especially given the Tome Points carryover cap per season. This system seems even less friendly towards people who have a structured and/or limited play schedule and/or like to do content with friends than the previous one.

The thing to remember is that Tamriel Tomes isn't just a new thing. It replaced two pieces of functionality and is trying to be something new. So, if people liked what we had before, this needs to be an improvement.

I am a big fan of ZOS using carrots to urge people outside of their comfort zones. I really am. I think it's good for the game. I say it all the time.

But the old system had some things that I liked which I'm now missing, and I enjoy it less for those reasons. Which include:

I don't have the same challenges as my friends. Yes, if we have enough time we can help each other with each other's, but it's not the same and it's not an efficient use of our time. So this system is less friendly and subtly discourages playing with friends by making it more efficient to just do your own challenges. Playing with friends is the main reason I play an MMO, so I'm not impressed.
I don't play a lot and much of my time is spent in structured play (like raiding). With the daily login rewards, I was guaranteed a reward each day I played. Now, for logging in I get Tome Points, which is currency that can add up to the potential of a reward but otherwise is just a less useful gold. Yes, sometimes the daily login rewards were junk, and I never used the poisons, but the tri pots, gold, crates, crafting mats, etc. were always welcome. I liked getting those when logging in.
The endeavors almost always had an "easy" one each day that I was guaranteed to get without going out of my way, or barely going out of my way. Because the Tome challenges are randomly distributed, this is not necessarily the case. And these seem less specifically designed to be obtained "during what you normally do" than the endeavors were. I've gotten "Excavate the Bosmer Hunting Horn, Orcish Siege Gear, or Augur's Bones" twice! I went out of my way to complete it and then got it again when the challenges refreshed.
Now to get endeavor seals, I have to use Tome Points. I'm using a currency to unlock a currency. Seems ridiculous.
If you DID log in every day, you could claim ~90 rewards, one for each day. Now, the highest amount of "free" rewards you can unlock for the same time period appears to be 50, with the added complication of acquiring and tracking a new currency.

Anyway, whether they are a good fit or not will probably depend on whether most people enjoy them and see them as a good addition to the game. It does seem a little shoe-horned in, to me, and, for the free rewards, so far doesn't seem better than what we had before. But that's specifically because of what I like and value as a player. I may not be in the majority here. But I don't think it's only about comfort zone for everyone, because ZOS has always pushed that boundary. I just think how the endeavors were set up were actually better in how that was done.

AllenaNightWood · April 8

i disagree this a a system that acutally works and once you have enough tome points you can start no what ever page you want that is a huge Win for battlepass type system

Malyore · April 8

I love that new content is being added to the base game for free, and I'm willing to support lessened quantity of new content if it means they choose to make it higher quality and worth playing in the first place.

But I agree that the battle-pass is in an odd place on their first attempt. The focus on the rewards feels random. And it may just need time to develop more. I have been spending my tome points just on trade bars and endeavors, in preparation for when there is something that I do want to get that is later added to the shop.
In terms of what's unique to the tome, there is not much that feels like it's there to expand on interacting with the game setting. In the paid version there is a low quality personality, some armor that seems to be khajiit-hircine themed(?) and some vague orange and blue things to fit the title dawn and dusk.
To me, that doesn't feel like it presents nor represents anything. It just kinda exists. I think if they leaned in on a direction or two, they would get more purchases and pursuits of the tomes. Make dawn and dusk full of unique things that connect to the celestial bodies, magnus, jone and jode, Azura, etc. across the cultures, classes, and factions of tamriel.

I haven't even been bothering to really do the challenges. The battle-pass exists in the back of the mind and gameplay. At least for me.

Malyore · April 8

Malyore wrote: »

I love that new content is being added to the base game for free, and I'm willing to support lessened quantity of new content if it means they choose to make it higher quality and worth playing in the first place.

But I agree that the battle-pass is in an odd place on their first attempt. The focus on the rewards feels random. And it may just need time to develop more. I have been spending my tome points just on trade bars and endeavors, in preparation for when there is something that I do want to get that is later added to the shop.
In terms of what's unique to the tome, there is not much that feels like it's there to expand on interacting with the game setting. In the paid version there is a low quality personality, some armor that seems to be khajiit-hircine themed(?) and some vague orange and blue things to fit the title dawn and dusk.
To me, that doesn't feel like it presents nor represents anything. It just kinda exists. I think if they leaned in on a direction or two, they would get more purchases and pursuits of the tomes. Make dawn and dusk full of unique things that connect to the celestial bodies, magnus, jone and jode, Azura, etc. across the cultures, classes, and factions of tamriel.

I haven't even been bothering to really do the challenges. The battle-pass exists in the back of the mind and gameplay. At least for me.

Clivia Tharn put it best:

"Where? There's nothing!"

ZOS: "The Scroll is here...give me a moment"

Ratzkifal · April 8

peacenote wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I feel the underlying issue here boils down to people wanting to do what they are always doing and remain in their comfort zone, and the devs wanting to get people to step out of their comfort zone a bit and try out content that they otherwise wouldn't.

Maybe for some people. But I'm a player who enjoys almost all content and, so far, I'm enjoying Tamriel Tomes a lot less than what it replaced. I don't do this a lot, but I'm going to quote myself from another thread.

In my opinion, what matters the most here regarding whether Tomes are "fun" and a net positive is if most players are able to get more free rewards - ones that they like - more easily and flexibly than they were with the daily login/endeavor system previously. And I am not sure that is the case, especially given the Tome Points carryover cap per season. This system seems even less friendly towards people who have a structured and/or limited play schedule and/or like to do content with friends than the previous one.

The thing to remember is that Tamriel Tomes isn't just a new thing. It replaced two pieces of functionality and is trying to be something new. So, if people liked what we had before, this needs to be an improvement.

I am a big fan of ZOS using carrots to urge people outside of their comfort zones. I really am. I think it's good for the game. I say it all the time.

But the old system had some things that I liked which I'm now missing, and I enjoy it less for those reasons. Which include:
I don't have the same challenges as my friends. Yes, if we have enough time we can help each other with each other's, but it's not the same and it's not an efficient use of our time. So this system is less friendly and subtly discourages playing with friends by making it more efficient to just do your own challenges. Playing with friends is the main reason I play an MMO, so I'm not impressed.

I don't play a lot and much of my time is spent in structured play (like raiding). With the daily login rewards, I was guaranteed a reward each day I played. Now, for logging in I get Tome Points, which is currency that can add up to the potential of a reward but otherwise is just a less useful gold. Yes, sometimes the daily login rewards were junk, and I never used the poisons, but the tri pots, gold, crates, crafting mats, etc. were always welcome. I liked getting those when logging in.

The endeavors almost always had an "easy" one each day that I was guaranteed to get without going out of my way, or barely going out of my way. Because the Tome challenges are randomly distributed, this is not necessarily the case. And these seem less specifically designed to be obtained "during what you normally do" than the endeavors were. I've gotten "Excavate the Bosmer Hunting Horn, Orcish Siege Gear, or Augur's Bones" twice! I went out of my way to complete it and then got it again when the challenges refreshed.

Now to get endeavor seals, I have to use Tome Points. I'm using a currency to unlock a currency. Seems ridiculous.

If you DID log in every day, you could claim ~90 rewards, one for each day. Now, the highest amount of "free" rewards you can unlock for the same time period appears to be 50, with the added complication of acquiring and tracking a new currency.

Anyway, whether they are a good fit or not will probably depend on whether most people enjoy them and see them as a good addition to the game. It does seem a little shoe-horned in, to me, and, for the free rewards, so far doesn't seem better than what we had before. But that's specifically because of what I like and value as a player. I may not be in the majority here. But I don't think it's only about comfort zone for everyone, because ZOS has always pushed that boundary. I just think how the endeavors were set up were actually better in how that was done.

Okay, by your own metric Tamriel Tomes are a massive success because we are getting a lot more seals of endeavors per day than before. We don't have to clog our inventories or waste precious currency which could be spent on cosmetics on potions and poisons and such, and we also are earning a ton of trade bars through Tomes, which needs to be factored in as well.
And then all the content is free, so someone who wasn't buying dungeon DLCs will now be able to get the associated cosmetic rewards. The system is more friendly and flexible towards people who have a structured and/or limited play schedule because you can work on your tomes a little every day and use your rerolls on the activities that don't fit your time management.
Granted, the challenges could be a little more generic and compatible. Like "do pledges" instead of "kill this very specific boss that only you have to kill". But you don't have to be on the same challenge as your friend to play together. You see it as the system discouraging you to play with your friends. I see this as the game encouraging you to play more, because now you have your activity and your friends' activities to do. You also find friends by doing group activities with other people looking to do the same.
Getting an obscene amount of potions is killing the game's economy and it's a good thing we are getting less of them now. We might as well remove alchemy from the game if all the potions people are ever going to use are coming from daily login rewards and not from actually gathering ingredients, crafting potions and engaging with other players. For the people that want them, they are still there to redeem from the tome.
I agree it is a bit silly how Tome points are a currency used to buy other currencies. I think it could probably function more like XP, but the advantage of the current system is that you can prioritize what you want over the things that you don't want. Seals of Endeavors are a high priority target for most, of course. But I appreciate all the more the ability to skip out on the potions in favor of getting everything I've wanted a little sooner.
Your last point in that list is ridiculous. You are completely disregarding the quality of the rewards. 90 rewards, out of which only 9 were usually worth talking about. There is at least one reward worth talking about on every page of the tome.

Can tomes still be improved? Definitely. For one, I think caches are too easy to use without realizing their significance. The button to use a cache should, in my opinion, be on the very last page of the tome, when you hit the end and are realizing "I can't finish this in time because I went on vacation". That's when you want to use them. Not on day one just because the system would let you. The tasks can be improved as well. But Endeavors were a chore and made me roll my eyes. Cast 3 ultimates? Let me just activate Overload three times. Boring. Easy maybe, but very boring. I always preferred doing the weekly endeavors and Tomes gives me more of that in a way that's not overwhelming and with more agency about the tasks I need to complete thanks to rerolls.

sleepy_worm · April 8

I find it a good fit so far. We'll see how I feel at the end of the season, though.

randconfig · April 8

Idk I'm enjoying it tbh.

BretonMage · April 8

peacenote wrote: »

But the old system had some things that I liked which I'm now missing, and I enjoy it less for those reasons. Which include:
I don't have the same challenges as my friends. Yes, if we have enough time we can help each other with each other's, but it's not the same and it's not an efficient use of our time. So this system is less friendly and subtly discourages playing with friends by making it more efficient to just do your own challenges. Playing with friends is the main reason I play an MMO, so I'm not impressed.

I'm thinking that there's really no reason why we'd need to roll for tasks. They could standardise the tome points for all the tasks (adjusting the effort level of the tasks as necessary), then give us a list each week for us to tick off (eg. do any 5 of these 10 tasks). Everyone gets the same list but can pick and choose which task to do. Essentially closer to the endeavor system, which, let's face it, worked pretty well.

This way friends can choose their tasks to do together, and players in general can choose their preferred tasks without needing to rely on the dreaded RNG. Honestly, introducing RNG and rerolls to this system was really unnecessary.

demonology89 · April 8

I'm quite enjoying the weekly challenges and the ability to reroll challenges I don't want to do. An added plus that rerolls carry over week to week. No more daily chores or login "rewards" I could miss. The seasonal challenge, I'm taking my time with no rush.

I don't think it's quite fair to compare ESO's battlepass system to those from Marvel Rivals, CoD, Overwatch, or LoL. Those games all have one core gameplay loop and that is PvP matches. ESO is a MMO with a multitude of different gameplay loops, keyword MMO. A grind is expected. I'm not quite understanding all the complaints here.

But I do think it would be better to generalize more of the tasks. And the choosing a profile between casual, PvE or PvP tasks is a great idea for the future.

Displaced_Salad · April 8

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

I mean, I get the monetary reason why ZOS is doing them. In the sense of “we need money to fund the team, pay ever-escalating server rental costs, dole out dividends to Microsoft shareholders, avoid unemployment,” and so on… sure. They fit in that sense.

But based on my experience with doing all the Week 1 tasks to completion, Tamriel Tomes are just a tedious list of exceedingly dull chores. Dull chores that have very little to do with any semblance of fun.

For point of comparison, I have bought 8 battle passes in Marvel Rivals… and I’ve always found them kind of fun. One strong contributing factor is that Marvel Rivals has a core hedgehog concept of doing the matches. Whether you’re in “competitive ranked” or “quickmatch” or “practice vs AI,” the end result is the same. You’re running matches. Everything revolves around that solid focal point (save a few cute optional mini-modes).

Since said game has such a laser focus, the developers have been able to design battle pass activities that revolve around doing things that you would naturally be doing ANYWAY. You’re going to be getting 20 critical hits, or killing 75 enemies, or doing 12 matches, or the like by just playing the game. That’s it. They’re not really chores at all. Again, you were going to do all those things ANYWAY. The Battle Pass just gives you extra motivation to log in and play the game. It feels very organic.

Oh sure, sometimes you’ll want to veer away from one kind of character to another to get some of them done in a prompter manner. Play as The Punisher to get 20 critical hits via headshots with your machine gun (which takes less than one match to achieve) or play a healer for 2 matches to get 25k healing done. But at the end of the day, you’re still doing the core activity of playing the matches. You’re doing the thing, just with your toes dipped in a slightly different player experience.

You also have plenty of alternative options. Each week’s list of battle pass activities has 12 or so possible ones to focus on and you are only expected to do six of them. Then you’re done with the weekly challenges. So if you REALLY don’t want to heal, you don’t have to. You have plenty of other things you can do to make progress… all the while enjoying the core gameplay loop. It’s a genuinely nice experience.

Tamriel Tomes… are not a nice experience. Instead of offering a diverse list of activities to participate in that enable people to earn progress by just naturally playing the game, they're just tedious nightmare filler-content. I play this game to explore, do quests, and wander the world… not to run around in circles collecting 90 wood and 90 silken cocoons. Not to camp a public dungeon event boss in Wrothgar for five minutes, kill him in thirty seconds, and then do that cycle another two times while reading a history book about the Panama Canal to stay awake. Not to be part of a herd of players corralled into the Wrothgar Overworld to pick away at 1,000 monsters, which… why? Why even design something like that? The monsters in the overworld aren't numerous enough to support the entire playerbase being funneled into instances of the zone to fulfill personal 1,000 monster kill quotas. You're creating pure tedium.

This isn’t fun. Now, in fairness, I know “fun” isn’t really the goal. Hasn’t been for a while. I mean, look: when you’re paying a monthly subscription of $149.99 per year AND buying loot crates AND sinking money into battle passes that are 50% more expensive than competitors’ battle passes while offering only a fraction of the costumes and cosmetics… you get motivated to take the time to read developer interviews. I read Matt Firor talking about “adding more things to the game to keep players busy.” BUSY. Not entertained. Not having fun. Kept BUSY. A very telling word choice. Stuck with me.

That’s what the Tamriel Tome system currently is. It’s busy work. It’s a second job that you can start when you’re done with your first one. I have 6 to 8 hours to play your game each week, tops. It would take me all that time just to keep up with these chores. Chores that are not only dull the first time, but dull the additional 2 to 5 times that I'm expected to repeat them. I could just not do them, but then I'd get behind... and I'd never catch up. I wouldn't finish the first battle pass and then the second one would drop and I wouldn't finish that one and then the third one would drop and I'd be so far in the hole that I'd never get them done (unless I pay real money for Tamriel Tome points, which I'm sure is in the works). Ugh.

In its present incarnation, I don’t think the Tamriel Tome system is a good fit for ESO. It doesn’t play to any of the game’s strengths, it doesn’t have any intuitive flow with core gameplay loops, and if this is supposed to take the place of new zones to keep us “busy” and “engaged” between major content drops so that we are retained as players… good luck with that. You’re going to burn people out.

______
As an addendum, it doesn’t help that I’m about 62 hours into the excellent Crimson Desert and loving the heck out of it. It is shockingly JARRING to go from an epic adventure replete with stunning vistas, awesome character abilities, and large-scale pitched battles to… ye olde chore list. “Another 30 ancestor silk to go. Oh, better remember to claim my daily log-in bonus of 15 tome points… because ZOS added the daily log-in bonus back into the game, only now with a far shoddier reward… because all the previous rewards are now locked behind these new chores. Stunning and brave.”

Ugh. I loved that month vacation between endeavors and this. Felt like the good ol’ days, before I apparently needed a second job ethnically-cleansing Wrothgar in order to give my kids a new pair of Raynor boots.

Were you lurking in my mailbox? LOL Nearly word for word the same sentiments I expressed to a friend and fellow player regarding the "month long vacation" and busywork. ZOS hears but they don't listen. None of this is an improvement, more like a lateral move. Can't say I'm surprised, just disappointed.

barney2525 · April 8

Vaqual wrote: »

From a naive and limited perspective on this, I have to say the following:
-first two weeks were already much less hassle than Endeavours for way better value
-I didn't have to micro manage event tickets based on item availability and currency cap
-I wasn't spammed with daily reward junk that will end up on a mule anyway

Monetization and content expectations aside, I find it to be very positive so far.

Endeavors are the Seals. There is no currency cap. Tickets are from specific events. Endeavors had stuff like : Weekly - Craft 50 of any items = 250 seals. The daily Endeavors never took long and were simple to accomplish. I don't see how this system is " much less hassle "

tohopka_eso · April 8

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm convinced these are not a good fit for ESO. ESO was about the story, not doing tasks for cosmetics. The day Tomes became active is the day ESO was no longer recognizable as the same game to me.

The tomes system has nothing to do with the content. If you're only or primarily in it for the story, there story is still there. This new 1000 kills in Wrothgar? While so many are complaining about grinding it out, I instead chose to take an alt into Wrothgar and re-do the questline since I haven't done it in a while. I'm enjoying the story, it doesn't feel like a grind, and I'm rapidly carving through the 1000 kills organically. Other weekly passes are getting completed along the way as well. I'm not playing the battlepass, I'm playing the game.

It's what you make of it.

I've never finished wrothgar and a few other zones. I like this cause it's giving me an incentive to do these zones finally. Also, I can grab all my surveys that been piling up and do those as well.
I've also been just exploring and finding quests or lore books I missed as well. Even having a small laugh watching everyone just running around rampid trying to get there count of the 1000 mobs task done.

katanagirl1 · April 9

BretonMage wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

But the old system had some things that I liked which I'm now missing, and I enjoy it less for those reasons. Which include:
I don't have the same challenges as my friends. Yes, if we have enough time we can help each other with each other's, but it's not the same and it's not an efficient use of our time. So this system is less friendly and subtly discourages playing with friends by making it more efficient to just do your own challenges. Playing with friends is the main reason I play an MMO, so I'm not impressed.

I'm thinking that there's really no reason why we'd need to roll for tasks. They could standardise the tome points for all the tasks (adjusting the effort level of the tasks as necessary), then give us a list each week for us to tick off (eg. do any 5 of these 10 tasks). Everyone gets the same list but can pick and choose which task to do. Essentially closer to the endeavor system, which, let's face it, worked pretty well.

This way friends can choose their tasks to do together, and players in general can choose their preferred tasks without needing to rely on the dreaded RNG. Honestly, introducing RNG and rerolls to this system was really unnecessary.

This is what I was going to say. Just let us see all of the options like Endeavors did and we can pick what we want, no rerolls. I don’t know all of the options so I might settle for one I don’t like in case I get something worse later.

I have to say the kill 1000 enemies one really killed any enthusiasm for doing these. I spent 30 minutes in Wrothgar overland and got about 15 kills in the first couple of minutes and then nothing after that. How can people here say that is not more grindy than the old system?

OP really summed up the whole experience for me in the first post. I have things I like to do in the game and this is not it. I can take some time off from fun activities to do a chore list, but not hours each day to keep up. So far it has been much more time for me than the old endeavors and I think I am on page 4 of the tome now. I do a lot of different game activities, but farming world bosses and overland creatures is not it either. If I continue to engage with the game in this manner I will begin to loathe logging in and play some other game where I don’t have a chore list.

virtus753 · April 9

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I have to say the kill 1000 enemies one really killed any enthusiasm for doing these. I spent 30 minutes in Wrothgar overland and got about 15 kills in the first couple of minutes and then nothing after that. How can people here say that is not more grindy than the old system?

It would give us a better indication of the level of grind if this challenge were not so bugged. It is explicitly intended that kills in sub-zones count too, which seems like it would be very impactful in terms of lessening competition and being able to focus on efficiency if we wish. It would give us greater options to get kills via questing, farming public dungeons, doing group dungeons, or doing the solo arena.

SneaK · April 9

Hear, Hear

Personofsecrets · April 9

I was pretty ashamed of myself after killing 1000 horker in wrothgar.

AzuraFan · April 9

katanagirl1 wrote: »

So far it has been much more time for me than the old endeavors and I think I am on page 4 of the tome now. I do a lot of different game activities, but farming world bosses and overland creatures is not it either. If I continue to engage with the game in this manner I will begin to loathe logging in and play some other game where I don’t have a chore list.

Same. I said in another thread that I feel more pressure to log in and do specific tasks now than I did when we just had endeavors and golden pursuits. It's even had me considering how much I want to engage with the tomes at all, as in maybe I should just put them on ignore, and any tome points I earn will come naturally. If that means I can't buy a lot of the shinies, so be it.

It's the unlocking of the pages that kills it for me. Stuff on later pages doesn't just cost 300 points or whatever. It actually costs 300+the thousands of points you need to unlock the page. If all the pages were unlocked from the start, I wouldn't feel like I have to be on that hamster wheel, running as fast as I can. As it is, I've already decided to reduce my time in-game to what it was pre-tomes, and again, if that means no shinies, fine, but it certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm also reconsidering buying the premium tomes - no point if I can't get the later pages unlocked unless I'm willing to increase my play time at the expense of other things I have to do or enjoy doing. I'm not willing to do that.

spartaxoxo · April 9

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I was pretty ashamed of myself after killing 1000 horker in wrothgar.

Not the horker! What did they ever do but hork around? 😂

Vonnegut2506 · April 9

I liked endeavors; I like the Tome. Basically, it seems that anything that isn't able to be finished immediately is called grinding which just boggles my mind in an MMO. The whole purpose of MMO's is to work towards some item or achievement. The Tome perfectly captures this by giving me a targeted list of things to work towards for the week.

I don't understand complaining about gathering activities because they are extremely easy and not that time-consuming. The ability to reroll activities that I truly don't enjoy has been great. There were days where I just didn't get to do 3 endeavors because I didn't like the activity itself (IA, I'm looking at you.). Now I just reroll the couple that I can't stand and spend a week knocking them out. Overall, much more user-friendly unless you think you have to get them all done the first day.

JHartEllis · April 10

I find the new system way more engaging than the endeavors. With veterancy, favors, and rumors coming soon, I feel like I have way more stuff to do.

Malprave · April 10

This version of ESO is flat out the best version that has ever been offered. Allowing players to earn rewards through the tome system is great! And, the quality of life improvements make for a vastly superior game experience. I’m extremely happy with these improvements and the direction the game is going!