The Automation Crisis: Why " None UI Add-ons" on Console Violate Official Policy

Syldras · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

ZOS’s Own Policy: ZOS has stated repeatedly that they do not pre-approve or actively monitor third-party add-ons. They provide the API, but they rely on the community to report tools that cross the line into automation or exploit-territory.

You've opened 3 threads about this topic in the past 5 or 6 days, and have pinged the ZOS team 10 times or so within these threads. I'm genuinely wondering: What makes you think they aren't aware of this problem yet? I appreciate your care for the game, but maybe they just need time to react?

heimdall14_9 · February 27

Syldras wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

ZOS’s Own Policy: ZOS has stated repeatedly that they do not pre-approve or actively monitor third-party add-ons. They provide the API, but they rely on the community to report tools that cross the line into automation or exploit-territory.

You've opened 3 threads about this topic in the past 5 or 6 days, and have pinged the ZOS team 10 times or so within these threads. I'm genuinely wondering: What makes you think they aren't aware of this problem yet? I appreciate your care for the game, but maybe they just need time to react?

"Syldras, I appreciate the civil tone of your question. To answer you directly: if ZOS would respond to any of my posts and give a clear 'yes' or 'no' regarding their stance on 0-input automation, I would stop immediately.

The Silence is the Problem: I have received zero response from any of the team members I have @'d. In 10 years and 48,000 hours of playing, I’ve seen how issues can get buried if the community doesn’t stay vocal. If ZOS is aware but 'needs time to react,' a simple 'We are looking into the One-Action Rule compliance' would suffice. Until then, the Automation Crisis remains an active threat to the game's competitive integrity.

This is Integrity, Not Impatience: I’m not pushing because I’m bored. I’m pushing because I care about the rules of the game I love. I didn't spend a decade and thousands of dollars to watch the Add-on Terms become optional suggestions for the PC community. I am going to continue to advocate for this until the automation is fixed or a developer clarifies why 100+ actions for 0 input is suddenly acceptable.

The Console Perspective: For those of us on console, we don't have the luxury of 'waiting' for a third-party script to be updated. We play by the official rules every single day. I’m asking for that same standard to be applied across the board.

I don't mind being the 'squeaky wheel' if it means protecting the skill-based nature of ESO. I’m here because I want the game to be better, and I believe that requires an answer from the people who set the rules."

heimdall14_9 · February 27

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I understand the use of AI but it can also just be used to make it more legible without adding anything new.

For example here is one I typed where I purposefully didn't use any punctuation except what autocorrect added it in.

Original:

I don't think AI is necessary but I don't want nobody to get mad like I'm not trying to dogpike just trying to help I really understand why it can help with grammar and all but I think if you have it put in extra stuff it can be hard to read that's all

Here's a version where AI makes that easier to read but doesn't add anything. I specifically told it in the prompt "please fix the grammar on this without changing my wording too much." And then I typed in what I wanted to say.

I don't think AI is necessary, but I don't want nobody to get mad. I'm not trying to dogpile; I'm just trying to help. I really understand why it can help with grammar and all, but I think if you have it put in extra stuff, it can be hard to read, that's all.

And here's one where I just asked chat gpt to fix it and let it add things for tone as well.

I don’t feel that using AI is always necessary, and I hope no one takes my perspective the wrong way. I’m not trying to criticize anyone or pile onto a discussion; my intention is simply to offer a thoughtful point of view. I genuinely understand that AI can be helpful, especially when it comes to improving grammar, clarity, or structure. Those benefits are real, and I respect why people choose to use it.

At the same time, I’ve noticed that when AI adds extra details or expands on ideas that weren’t originally meant to be included, the writing can become harder to read or feel less natural. My concern isn’t with AI itself, but with how easily the original message can get buried under added content. I’m only trying to express that sometimes simplicity and authenticity matter just as much as correctness.

That’s all I’m trying to say, and I hope it comes across in the spirit of understanding and support.

I suspect the middle is what you're trying to achieve with the use of the AI to help get your point across. The latter comes across a bit too stiff to really read like it came from a person, even if it is communicating how I feel. And that can be pretty off-putting to some because it screams AI. The prompt can make a big difference.

If you still want to just copy paste whatever, I completely understand. I get that you're using it for accessibility purposes. I just wanted to toss this information out there in case you'd find it helpful.

i dont cut and paste i speak into a mic and it writes out my thoughts , and if it adds something i feel is wrong i tell it to fix if it adds something i think fits what im saying better i keep it but i giving it its input they just putting so you can read it without the need to belittle me

Reginald_leBlem · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

Why are you taking it upon yourself to enforce the code of conduct? Zos is well aware of these addons and has decided they are allowed.

ZOS’s Own Policy: ZOS has stated repeatedly that they do not pre-approve or actively monitor third-party add-ons. They provide the API, but they rely on the community to report tools that cross the line into automation or exploit-territory.

But Zos also has discretion. They reserve the right to determine harm, and enforce the rules not just on if they violate TOS, but on actual impact as well.

Consider this: Speeding is illegal. On paper, every time you drive over the speed limit you are subject to a ticket, a fine, and points of your license. We all know and understand that!

But in reality, how many of us have driven past a cop going 2 or 3 miles over the speed limit and been ignored? Or been speeding along a clear stretch of empty road and gotten a warning flash of lights or even a written warning?
The impact of WW auto swapping gear and skills is it saves people time. That's it. Everyone has access to the addon so theres no unfair advantage to one side or another. Zos could disable the autoswapping featuring, so people need to press a button to swap gear and skills but why would they? Just to annoy people?
How much time and effort would it take zos to disable that ability? What would they break in the meantime?
Removing the ability for addons to automate would cost time, money, and goodwill. Leaving them as-is costs nothing because no harm is being done. This is very simple.

heimdall14_9 · February 27

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

Why are you taking it upon yourself to enforce the code of conduct? Zos is well aware of these addons and has decided they are allowed.

ZOS’s Own Policy: ZOS has stated repeatedly that they do not pre-approve or actively monitor third-party add-ons. They provide the API, but they rely on the community to report tools that cross the line into automation or exploit-territory.

But Zos also has discretion. They reserve the right to determine harm, and enforce the rules not just on if they violate TOS, but on actual impact as well.

Consider this: Speeding is illegal. On paper, every time you drive over the speed limit you are subject to a ticket, a fine, and points of your license. We all know and understand that!

But in reality, how many of us have driven past a cop going 2 or 3 miles over the speed limit and been ignored? Or been speeding along a clear stretch of empty road and gotten a warning flash of lights or even a written warning?
The impact of WW auto swapping gear and skills is it saves people time. That's it. Everyone has access to the addon so theres no unfair advantage to one side or another. Zos could disable the autoswapping featuring, so people need to press a button to swap gear and skills but why would they? Just to annoy people?
How much time and effort would it take zos to disable that ability? What would they break in the meantime?
Removing the ability for addons to automate would cost time, money, and goodwill. Leaving them as-is costs nothing because no harm is being done. This is very simple.

"Reginald_leBlem, I understand your analogy, but this isn't a highway—it’s a game meant for enjoyment, and every game needs a clear set of rules to remain fair.

The Penalty for Speeding: If I get caught speeding in my car, I pay the ticket. I don't argue that the speed limit shouldn't exist just because it 'saves me time.' In this case, the 'ticket' isn't a ban for the players; it's a requirement for the add-on developer to correct their violation and bring the tool into compliance with the One-Action Rule.

Harm is Subjective: You say 'no harm is being done,' but that ignores the thousands of players on console and the PC players who choose to follow the Code of Conduct. When one group uses 0-input automation to gain a competitive edge in trials or score-pushing, it devalues the effort of everyone playing manually. That is the harm.

The 'Why' of Manual Actions: You asked why ZOS would require a button press—if it's just 'to annoy people.' It’s not about annoyance; it’s about engagement. The moment you let a script handle the 100+ actions of a build swap, you aren't playing the RPG anymore; you're just watching a program. ZOS built a manual system (The Armory) because they want players to be the ones making the decisions and taking the actions.

Equity of Enforcement: Leaving a violation 'as-is' because it's 'easier' is how the integrity of a game dies. I’ve put 48,000 hours into The Elder Scrolls Online because I believe in the skill-based nature of its combat. If we accept 100-to-0 automation here, where does the 'speeding' stop? Auto-rotation? Auto-block?

I’m not asking ZOS to 'break' anything or spend millions. I’m asking for the same integrity that makes this game worth playing. A 'Manual Commit' button isn't a punishment; it’s the standard that keeps the game fair for everyone."

spartaxoxo · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I understand the use of AI but it can also just be used to make it more legible without adding anything new.

For example here is one I typed where I purposefully didn't use any punctuation except what autocorrect added it in.

Original:

I don't think AI is necessary but I don't want nobody to get mad like I'm not trying to dogpike just trying to help I really understand why it can help with grammar and all but I think if you have it put in extra stuff it can be hard to read that's all

Here's a version where AI makes that easier to read but doesn't add anything. I specifically told it in the prompt "please fix the grammar on this without changing my wording too much." And then I typed in what I wanted to say.

I don't think AI is necessary, but I don't want nobody to get mad. I'm not trying to dogpile; I'm just trying to help. I really understand why it can help with grammar and all, but I think if you have it put in extra stuff, it can be hard to read, that's all.

And here's one where I just asked chat gpt to fix it and let it add things for tone as well.

I don’t feel that using AI is always necessary, and I hope no one takes my perspective the wrong way. I’m not trying to criticize anyone or pile onto a discussion; my intention is simply to offer a thoughtful point of view. I genuinely understand that AI can be helpful, especially when it comes to improving grammar, clarity, or structure. Those benefits are real, and I respect why people choose to use it.

At the same time, I’ve noticed that when AI adds extra details or expands on ideas that weren’t originally meant to be included, the writing can become harder to read or feel less natural. My concern isn’t with AI itself, but with how easily the original message can get buried under added content. I’m only trying to express that sometimes simplicity and authenticity matter just as much as correctness.

That’s all I’m trying to say, and I hope it comes across in the spirit of understanding and support.

I suspect the middle is what you're trying to achieve with the use of the AI to help get your point across. The latter comes across a bit too stiff to really read like it came from a person, even if it is communicating how I feel. And that can be pretty off-putting to some because it screams AI. The prompt can make a big difference.

If you still want to just copy paste whatever, I completely understand. I get that you're using it for accessibility purposes. I just wanted to toss this information out there in case you'd find it helpful.

i dont cut and paste i speak into a mic and it writes out my thoughts , and if it adds something i feel is wrong i tell it to fix if it adds something i think fits what im saying better i keep it but i giving it its input they just putting so you can read it without the need to belittle me

Ah. I see. I'm not trying to belittle you. I am sorry. I definitely could have been more clear. I actually never found it super difficult to understand you and I have appreciated your efforts in this regard, which is why I wanted to help. I actually kind of got frustrated for you that so much of the conversation is about AI. The prompt thing will also work with a mic if you say something along the lines of "fix what I say next without adding anything."

Regardless of what you decide, I appreciate the effort you have put in on clarifying things and I won't remark further on the AI. It's a legitimate tool when used the way you're using it.

heimdall14_9 · February 27

spartaxoxo wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I understand the use of AI but it can also just be used to make it more legible without adding anything new.

For example here is one I typed where I purposefully didn't use any punctuation except what autocorrect added it in.

Original:

I don't think AI is necessary but I don't want nobody to get mad like I'm not trying to dogpike just trying to help I really understand why it can help with grammar and all but I think if you have it put in extra stuff it can be hard to read that's all

Here's a version where AI makes that easier to read but doesn't add anything. I specifically told it in the prompt "please fix the grammar on this without changing my wording too much." And then I typed in what I wanted to say.

I don't think AI is necessary, but I don't want nobody to get mad. I'm not trying to dogpile; I'm just trying to help. I really understand why it can help with grammar and all, but I think if you have it put in extra stuff, it can be hard to read, that's all.

And here's one where I just asked chat gpt to fix it and let it add things for tone as well.

I don’t feel that using AI is always necessary, and I hope no one takes my perspective the wrong way. I’m not trying to criticize anyone or pile onto a discussion; my intention is simply to offer a thoughtful point of view. I genuinely understand that AI can be helpful, especially when it comes to improving grammar, clarity, or structure. Those benefits are real, and I respect why people choose to use it.

At the same time, I’ve noticed that when AI adds extra details or expands on ideas that weren’t originally meant to be included, the writing can become harder to read or feel less natural. My concern isn’t with AI itself, but with how easily the original message can get buried under added content. I’m only trying to express that sometimes simplicity and authenticity matter just as much as correctness.

That’s all I’m trying to say, and I hope it comes across in the spirit of understanding and support.

I suspect the middle is what you're trying to achieve with the use of the AI to help get your point across. The latter comes across a bit too stiff to really read like it came from a person, even if it is communicating how I feel. And that can be pretty off-putting to some because it screams AI. The prompt can make a big difference.

If you still want to just copy paste whatever, I completely understand. I get that you're using it for accessibility purposes. I just wanted to toss this information out there in case you'd find it helpful.

i dont cut and paste i speak into a mic and it writes out my thoughts , and if it adds something i feel is wrong i tell it to fix if it adds something i think fits what im saying better i keep it but i giving it its input they just putting so you can read it without the need to belittle me

Ah. I see. I'm not trying to belittle you. I am sorry. I definitely could have been more clear. I actually never found it super difficult to understand you and I have appreciated your efforts in this regard, which is why I wanted to help. I actually kind of got frustrated for you that so much of the conversation is about AI. The prompt thing will also work with a mic if you say something along the lines of "fix what I say next without adding anything."

Regardless of what you decide, I appreciate the effort you have put in on clarifying things and I won't remark further on the AI. It's a legitimate tool when used the way you're using it.

keeping it 100% with you i fought with myself over using it ive never wanted to be that guy but hey im that guy 10 tons of steal to the head changes you if not kills you

Reginald_leBlem · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

Why are you taking it upon yourself to enforce the code of conduct? Zos is well aware of these addons and has decided they are allowed.

ZOS’s Own Policy: ZOS has stated repeatedly that they do not pre-approve or actively monitor third-party add-ons. They provide the API, but they rely on the community to report tools that cross the line into automation or exploit-territory.

But Zos also has discretion. They reserve the right to determine harm, and enforce the rules not just on if they violate TOS, but on actual impact as well.

Consider this: Speeding is illegal. On paper, every time you drive over the speed limit you are subject to a ticket, a fine, and points of your license. We all know and understand that!

But in reality, how many of us have driven past a cop going 2 or 3 miles over the speed limit and been ignored? Or been speeding along a clear stretch of empty road and gotten a warning flash of lights or even a written warning?
The impact of WW auto swapping gear and skills is it saves people time. That's it. Everyone has access to the addon so theres no unfair advantage to one side or another. Zos could disable the autoswapping featuring, so people need to press a button to swap gear and skills but why would they? Just to annoy people?
How much time and effort would it take zos to disable that ability? What would they break in the meantime?
Removing the ability for addons to automate would cost time, money, and goodwill. Leaving them as-is costs nothing because no harm is being done. This is very simple.

"Reginald_leBlem, I understand your analogy, but this isn't a highway—it’s a game meant for enjoyment, and every game needs a clear set of rules to remain fair.

The Penalty for Speeding: If I get caught speeding in my car, I pay the ticket. I don't argue that the speed limit shouldn't exist just because it 'saves me time.' In this case, the 'ticket' isn't a ban for the players; it's a requirement for the add-on developer to correct their violation and bring the tool into compliance with the One-Action Rule.

Harm is Subjective: You say 'no harm is being done,' but that ignores the thousands of players on console and the PC players who choose to follow the Code of Conduct. When one group uses 0-input automation to gain a competitive edge in trials or score-pushing, it devalues the effort of everyone playing manually. That is the harm.

The 'Why' of Manual Actions: You asked why ZOS would require a button press—if it's just 'to annoy people.' It’s not about annoyance; it’s about engagement. The moment you let a script handle the 100+ actions of a build swap, you aren't playing the RPG anymore; you're just watching a program. ZOS built a manual system (The Armory) because they want players to be the ones making the decisions and taking the actions.

Equity of Enforcement: Leaving a violation 'as-is' because it's 'easier' is how the integrity of a game dies. I’ve put 48,000 hours into The Elder Scrolls Online because I believe in the skill-based nature of its combat. If we accept 100-to-0 automation here, where does the 'speeding' stop? Auto-rotation? Auto-block?

I’m not asking ZOS to 'break' anything or spend millions. I’m asking for the same integrity that makes this game worth playing. A 'Manual Commit' button isn't a punishment; it’s the standard that keeps the game fair for everyone."

Zos has drawn the line at macros for rotations and skills numerous times. You have fallen into a couple of logical fallacies.

For one, assuming everyone values the gameplay the same way you do. No one is forcing you to use any sort of auto swapping program, writ crafter, etc. If you find swapping gear and skills engaging and you enjoy manually doing writs, have at it!
But some people use the game as a social outlet, and the interaction with people is the draw, not manually swapping gear a piece at a time.

There also is not a competitive edge. Console and PC do not share leaderboards, and it's my understanding that WW is available on console now anyways. For free. To everyone.

Lastly we have your slippery slope-- you are making it sound as if there is an epidemic of people watching the game like a TV show, not pressing any buttons at all, and that is simply untrue. If you've ever been in a trial you will be aware that many buttons are pressed, people are engaged in the playing and often, as the kids say, "locked in", despite the almost universal use of WW.

Also the speeding analogy isn't perfect, but the main reason is the potential consequences. This isn't a half ton moving hunk of metal driving at high rates of speed-- its a game.

There are 0 real life consequences to using WW or addons like it. The number of hours you've played is completely irrelevant to this.

And yes, Zos does have discretion when enforkng things, and uses it. Generally, they are good at identifying good faith actors and otherwise. WW is what we call a quality of life addon. Are you going to demand removal of the minimap next? It provides constant updates on your location in relation to the world around you without any input. You'd have to open your map constantly to achieve the same goal. It violates the same TOS.

Also saying you "aren't asking zos to break anything" the game code breaks if they breathe on it funny. Asking them to change API to disable automation is asking them to break the game whether you think so or not. Remember when they tried to fix one iteration of the block bug amd it caused the friend and guild lists to start showing people as last online 50+ years ago? Pretty sure the game is currently running off paperclip, bubble gum and duct tape.

spartaxoxo · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I understand the use of AI but it can also just be used to make it more legible without adding anything new.

For example here is one I typed where I purposefully didn't use any punctuation except what autocorrect added it in.

Original:

I don't think AI is necessary but I don't want nobody to get mad like I'm not trying to dogpike just trying to help I really understand why it can help with grammar and all but I think if you have it put in extra stuff it can be hard to read that's all

Here's a version where AI makes that easier to read but doesn't add anything. I specifically told it in the prompt "please fix the grammar on this without changing my wording too much." And then I typed in what I wanted to say.

I don't think AI is necessary, but I don't want nobody to get mad. I'm not trying to dogpile; I'm just trying to help. I really understand why it can help with grammar and all, but I think if you have it put in extra stuff, it can be hard to read, that's all.

And here's one where I just asked chat gpt to fix it and let it add things for tone as well.

I don’t feel that using AI is always necessary, and I hope no one takes my perspective the wrong way. I’m not trying to criticize anyone or pile onto a discussion; my intention is simply to offer a thoughtful point of view. I genuinely understand that AI can be helpful, especially when it comes to improving grammar, clarity, or structure. Those benefits are real, and I respect why people choose to use it.

At the same time, I’ve noticed that when AI adds extra details or expands on ideas that weren’t originally meant to be included, the writing can become harder to read or feel less natural. My concern isn’t with AI itself, but with how easily the original message can get buried under added content. I’m only trying to express that sometimes simplicity and authenticity matter just as much as correctness.

That’s all I’m trying to say, and I hope it comes across in the spirit of understanding and support.

I suspect the middle is what you're trying to achieve with the use of the AI to help get your point across. The latter comes across a bit too stiff to really read like it came from a person, even if it is communicating how I feel. And that can be pretty off-putting to some because it screams AI. The prompt can make a big difference.

If you still want to just copy paste whatever, I completely understand. I get that you're using it for accessibility purposes. I just wanted to toss this information out there in case you'd find it helpful.

i dont cut and paste i speak into a mic and it writes out my thoughts , and if it adds something i feel is wrong i tell it to fix if it adds something i think fits what im saying better i keep it but i giving it its input they just putting so you can read it without the need to belittle me

Ah. I see. I'm not trying to belittle you. I am sorry. I definitely could have been more clear. I actually never found it super difficult to understand you and I have appreciated your efforts in this regard, which is why I wanted to help. I actually kind of got frustrated for you that so much of the conversation is about AI. The prompt thing will also work with a mic if you say something along the lines of "fix what I say next without adding anything."

Regardless of what you decide, I appreciate the effort you have put in on clarifying things and I won't remark further on the AI. It's a legitimate tool when used the way you're using it.

keeping it 100% with you i fought with myself over using it ive never wanted to be that guy but hey im that guy 10 tons of steal to the head changes you if not kills you

It's great you're still with us no matter how you type it out. Do whatever you gotta do to feel comfortable. There's no wrong answer. Not every post is for everybody and that's 100% okay. They are your words and you can convey them however you like within the TOS.

heimdall14_9 · February 27

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

Why are you taking it upon yourself to enforce the code of conduct? Zos is well aware of these addons and has decided they are allowed.

ZOS’s Own Policy: ZOS has stated repeatedly that they do not pre-approve or actively monitor third-party add-ons. They provide the API, but they rely on the community to report tools that cross the line into automation or exploit-territory.

But Zos also has discretion. They reserve the right to determine harm, and enforce the rules not just on if they violate TOS, but on actual impact as well.

Consider this: Speeding is illegal. On paper, every time you drive over the speed limit you are subject to a ticket, a fine, and points of your license. We all know and understand that!

But in reality, how many of us have driven past a cop going 2 or 3 miles over the speed limit and been ignored? Or been speeding along a clear stretch of empty road and gotten a warning flash of lights or even a written warning?
The impact of WW auto swapping gear and skills is it saves people time. That's it. Everyone has access to the addon so theres no unfair advantage to one side or another. Zos could disable the autoswapping featuring, so people need to press a button to swap gear and skills but why would they? Just to annoy people?
How much time and effort would it take zos to disable that ability? What would they break in the meantime?
Removing the ability for addons to automate would cost time, money, and goodwill. Leaving them as-is costs nothing because no harm is being done. This is very simple.

"Reginald_leBlem, I understand your analogy, but this isn't a highway—it’s a game meant for enjoyment, and every game needs a clear set of rules to remain fair.

The Penalty for Speeding: If I get caught speeding in my car, I pay the ticket. I don't argue that the speed limit shouldn't exist just because it 'saves me time.' In this case, the 'ticket' isn't a ban for the players; it's a requirement for the add-on developer to correct their violation and bring the tool into compliance with the One-Action Rule.

Harm is Subjective: You say 'no harm is being done,' but that ignores the thousands of players on console and the PC players who choose to follow the Code of Conduct. When one group uses 0-input automation to gain a competitive edge in trials or score-pushing, it devalues the effort of everyone playing manually. That is the harm.

The 'Why' of Manual Actions: You asked why ZOS would require a button press—if it's just 'to annoy people.' It’s not about annoyance; it’s about engagement. The moment you let a script handle the 100+ actions of a build swap, you aren't playing the RPG anymore; you're just watching a program. ZOS built a manual system (The Armory) because they want players to be the ones making the decisions and taking the actions.

Equity of Enforcement: Leaving a violation 'as-is' because it's 'easier' is how the integrity of a game dies. I’ve put 48,000 hours into The Elder Scrolls Online because I believe in the skill-based nature of its combat. If we accept 100-to-0 automation here, where does the 'speeding' stop? Auto-rotation? Auto-block?

I’m not asking ZOS to 'break' anything or spend millions. I’m asking for the same integrity that makes this game worth playing. A 'Manual Commit' button isn't a punishment; it’s the standard that keeps the game fair for everyone."

Zos has drawn the line at macros for rotations and skills numerous times. You have fallen into a couple of logical fallacies.

For one, assuming everyone values the gameplay the same way you do. No one is forcing you to use any sort of auto swapping program, writ crafter, etc. If you find swapping gear and skills engaging and you enjoy manually doing writs, have at it!
But some people use the game as a social outlet, and the interaction with people is the draw, not manually swapping gear a piece at a time.

There also is not a competitive edge. Console and PC do not share leaderboards, and it's my understanding that WW is available on console now anyways. For free. To everyone.

Lastly we have your slippery slope-- you are making it sound as if there is an epidemic of people watching the game like a TV show, not pressing any buttons at all, and that is simply untrue. If you've ever been in a trial you will be aware that many buttons are pressed, people are engaged in the playing and often, as the kids say, "locked in", despite the almost universal use of WW.

Also the speeding analogy isn't perfect, but the main reason is the potential consequences. This isn't a half ton moving hunk of metal driving at high rates of speed-- its a game.

There are 0 real life consequences to using WW or addons like it. The number of hours you've played is completely irrelevant to this.

And yes, Zos does have discretion when enforkng things, and uses it. Generally, they are good at identifying good faith actors and otherwise. WW is what we call a quality of life addon. Are you going to demand removal of the minimap next? It provides constant updates on your location in relation to the world around you without any input. You'd have to open your map constantly to achieve the same goal. It violates the same TOS.

Also saying you "aren't asking zos to break anything" the game code breaks if they breathe on it funny. Asking them to change API to disable automation is asking them to break the game whether you think so or not. Remember when they tried to fix one iteration of the block bug amd it caused the friend and guild lists to start showing people as last online 50+ years ago? Pretty sure the game is currently running off paperclip, bubble gum and duct tape.

"Reginald_leBlem, let me be even more direct because you are missing the most important part of my journey: I have tested this myself on console. My entire reason for starting these threads is because I have seen firsthand that these automated functions are now being pushed into the console environment. This isn't a 'theoretical' debate for me.

The '0-Input' Smoking Gun: You keep trying to minimize this as 'Quality of Life.' It is not. I have seen 100+ actions occur with zero player input at the time of the action. That is the definition of a script playing the game for you. Whether it's on PC or now creeping onto console, it violates the One-Action Rule.

This Isn't a Social Club: You say people use the game as a 'social outlet' and don't want to be 'annoyed' by swapping gear. If you don't want to engage with the RPG mechanics of The Elder Scrolls Online, that is your choice—but you don't get to automate the gameplay to stay 'competitive' while you chat. If a task is so tedious you feel the need to script it, that is a failure of the Official UI, not an excuse to break the rules.

The Responsibility of Discovery: As a 'Release Day Vet' with 48,000 hours, I didn't find this to 'troll' the community. I found it because I care about the Integrity of the Game. If I see a violation that allows for 100-to-0 automation, I’m going to report it. That isn't 'hatred'; it's called being a Game Master who respects the rules.

Fix the Standard: If these tools are being allowed to run 0-input scripts, then the Code of Conduct is currently meaningless. I am pushing until ZOS either fixes the automation to require a manual 'Commit' button or explains why they’ve abandoned the One-Action Rule entirely.

I’m not 'falling into fallacies.' I’m holding a mirror up to a system that is currently allowing scripts to do what players should be doing with their own hands. If that 'annoys' you, perhaps you should ask why you're so dependent on a script to enjoy your game."

Also saying you "aren't asking zos to break anything" the game code breaks if they breathe on it funny. Asking them to change API to disable automation is asking them to break the game whether you think so or not. Remember when they tried to fix one iteration of the block bug amd it caused the friend and guild lists to start showing people as last online 50+ years ago? Pretty sure the game is currently running off paperclip, bubble gum and duct tape.
funny thing is this is an 3rd party add-on zos doesnt have to do anything but tell the developer to change / remove the 0 action function of their add-on lol 😂

also to point out @STUDLETON is watching this post and maybe after seeing how a long time vet player thats played without having to fight against add-ons feels about seeing the integrity of the game they've played get taken away , and how pc players that refuse to use add-ons are left behind in areas where speed matters

heimdall14_9 · February 27

spartaxoxo wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I understand the use of AI but it can also just be used to make it more legible without adding anything new.

For example here is one I typed where I purposefully didn't use any punctuation except what autocorrect added it in.

Original:

I don't think AI is necessary but I don't want nobody to get mad like I'm not trying to dogpike just trying to help I really understand why it can help with grammar and all but I think if you have it put in extra stuff it can be hard to read that's all

Here's a version where AI makes that easier to read but doesn't add anything. I specifically told it in the prompt "please fix the grammar on this without changing my wording too much." And then I typed in what I wanted to say.

I don't think AI is necessary, but I don't want nobody to get mad. I'm not trying to dogpile; I'm just trying to help. I really understand why it can help with grammar and all, but I think if you have it put in extra stuff, it can be hard to read, that's all.

And here's one where I just asked chat gpt to fix it and let it add things for tone as well.

I don’t feel that using AI is always necessary, and I hope no one takes my perspective the wrong way. I’m not trying to criticize anyone or pile onto a discussion; my intention is simply to offer a thoughtful point of view. I genuinely understand that AI can be helpful, especially when it comes to improving grammar, clarity, or structure. Those benefits are real, and I respect why people choose to use it.

At the same time, I’ve noticed that when AI adds extra details or expands on ideas that weren’t originally meant to be included, the writing can become harder to read or feel less natural. My concern isn’t with AI itself, but with how easily the original message can get buried under added content. I’m only trying to express that sometimes simplicity and authenticity matter just as much as correctness.

That’s all I’m trying to say, and I hope it comes across in the spirit of understanding and support.

I suspect the middle is what you're trying to achieve with the use of the AI to help get your point across. The latter comes across a bit too stiff to really read like it came from a person, even if it is communicating how I feel. And that can be pretty off-putting to some because it screams AI. The prompt can make a big difference.

If you still want to just copy paste whatever, I completely understand. I get that you're using it for accessibility purposes. I just wanted to toss this information out there in case you'd find it helpful.

i dont cut and paste i speak into a mic and it writes out my thoughts , and if it adds something i feel is wrong i tell it to fix if it adds something i think fits what im saying better i keep it but i giving it its input they just putting so you can read it without the need to belittle me

Ah. I see. I'm not trying to belittle you. I am sorry. I definitely could have been more clear. I actually never found it super difficult to understand you and I have appreciated your efforts in this regard, which is why I wanted to help. I actually kind of got frustrated for you that so much of the conversation is about AI. The prompt thing will also work with a mic if you say something along the lines of "fix what I say next without adding anything."

Regardless of what you decide, I appreciate the effort you have put in on clarifying things and I won't remark further on the AI. It's a legitimate tool when used the way you're using it.

you have kept yourself respectful in all talks the belittlement comes from others you have always had language barrier on top of my writing style or for some the lack of

heimdall14_9 · February 27

Midday Status Update
"I want to bring the focus back to the core of this discussion and move past the distractions. I’ve listened to the community advice on how to better communicate my points, and it is telling that some would rather belittle a player for following that advice than address the actual Automation Crisis.

Here is the state of the argument as it stands:

The 0-Input Reality: We have established that these tools trigger based on the environment or boss proximity. That is 0-input automation. Swapping 100+ items, skills, and CP stars without a single button press at the time of the action is a clear violation of the One-Action Rule.

The 'Impossible' Standard: Critics argue this just does 'what a player can do.' I disagree. It is humanly impossible to execute 100+ server-side reconfigurations in 0.0 seconds manually. This isn't 'convenience'; it is a mechanical bypass of the Code of Conduct.

The Solution (Manual Commit): My proposed solution has been consistent: Require a Manual Commit button. If this is truly just about 'not forgetting gear,' then a single manual confirmation button should not be an issue. The fact that people are fighting so hard against one extra click proves they are defending the automation, not the convenience.

Bypassing Intentional Friction: ZOS built the Armory System with specific restrictions—requiring an assistant and blocking swaps in active Veteran Trials. Using a third-party script to ignore those restrictions is an exploit of the game's competitive integrity.

Platform Equity: I have tested these functions myself. Whether on PC or creeping onto console, the harm is the same. It devalues the 48,000 hours of manual skill that players put into this game.

I am not looking for pity; I am looking for Integrity. If the community is willing to attack a veteran player for simply advocating for the Add-on Terms, it shows just how deep this dependency on automation goes. I will continue to push for an official response from ZOS because a game where scripts make the decisions is a game that has lost its way."

frogthroat · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

If reporting a clear violation of the One-Action Rule makes me the 'bad guy' in your eyes, then so be it."

What do you mean by "reporting"? Reporting how?

imPDA · February 27

Let's tune a bit down, as I continue seeing obviously false statements. "100+ items, skills, and CP stars" wtf? You have 16 gear slots (5 body, 3 jewelry, 4 weapon and 2 poison slots), 12 skill slots (5+1 x2 panels), and 12 CP slots, total you can change: 40. You either did not manage to memorize how much slots exist in the game (in your 48k hours of playing), or you are faking 48k. And you obviously overexaggerating arguments to seem legit, but it is not.

The only thing matter what is the outcome of any action. Can you change gear manually? Yes. Can WW change gear for you? Yes. So, what's the difference? Time. If you value your time, you will find ways to save it. If you are upset you spent too much time manually swapping gear, it is understandable, we get it, but please stop it. Thank you!

heimdall14_9 · February 27

frogthroat wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

If reporting a clear violation of the One-Action Rule makes me the 'bad guy' in your eyes, then so be it."

What do you mean by "reporting"? Reporting how?

a reporter writes down their findings on something and puts it in the paper for all to read , thats called reporting
here im showing my finding and writing them out for everyone to read here , thats reporting when i tag the dev team im saying here this is an report you should look at again reporting my findings of something where or how i report something doesnt change that reporting is reporting

heimdall14_9 · February 27

imPDA wrote: »

Let's tune a bit down, as I continue seeing obviously false statements. "100+ items, skills, and CP stars" wtf? You have 16 gear slots (5 body, 3 jewelry, 4 weapon and 2 poison slots), 12 skill slots (5+1 x2 panels), and 12 CP slots, total you can change: 40. You either did not manage to memorize how much slots exist in the game (in your 48k hours of playing), or you are faking 48k. And you obviously overexaggerating arguments to seem legit, but it is not.

The only thing matter what is the outcome of any action. Can you change gear manually? Yes. Can WW change gear for you? Yes. So, what's the difference? Time. If you value your time, you will find ways to save it. If you are upset you spent too much time manually swapping gear, it is understandable, we get it, but please stop it. Thank you!

"imPDA, you are confusing 'slots' with 'actions.' Let’s look at the actual math of human input required to do what a 0-input script does:

The Gear Math: To change 16 slots manually, you don't just 'click' 16 times. You have to open the inventory, scroll to the category, select the slot, scroll through your sets, find the piece, and confirm. That is roughly 3 to 5 inputs per slot. (16 slots x 4 inputs = 64 actions).

The Skill Math: To change 12 skills, you must open the skill menu, navigate to the correct class/weapon/guild line, find the skill, and slot it. Often across two different bars. (12 skills x 3 inputs = 36 actions).

The CP Math: Changing 12 CP stars is the most intensive. You have to open the CP tree, navigate to the specific constellation (Warfare, Fitness, or Craft), find the star, most importantly—hit the 'Commit' button

The 100+ Total: When you add up the scrolling, clicking, navigating, and committing for gear, skills, and CP, you are easily performing well over 100 manual inputs to achieve a full build swap.

The Difference: * Manual Player: 100+ intentional button presses over 30–60 seconds.

Script User: 0 inputs over 0.0 seconds.

You say the only difference is 'time.' In a competitive game, time is the advantage. If a script performs 100 actions for you instantly while you walk into a boss room, you aren't 'saving time'—you are using a program to bypass the mechanical requirements of the Official UI.

If you think 100-to-0 automation is just 'Quality of Life,' then you don't value the One-Action Rule that ZOS put in place to keep the game fair."

imPDA · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

imPDA wrote: »

Let's tune a bit down, as I continue seeing obviously false statements. "100+ items, skills, and CP stars" wtf? You have 16 gear slots (5 body, 3 jewelry, 4 weapon and 2 poison slots), 12 skill slots (5+1 x2 panels), and 12 CP slots, total you can change: 40. You either did not manage to memorize how much slots exist in the game (in your 48k hours of playing), or you are faking 48k. And you obviously overexaggerating arguments to seem legit, but it is not.

The only thing matter what is the outcome of any action. Can you change gear manually? Yes. Can WW change gear for you? Yes. So, what's the difference? Time. If you value your time, you will find ways to save it. If you are upset you spent too much time manually swapping gear, it is understandable, we get it, but please stop it. Thank you!

"imPDA, you are confusing 'slots' with 'actions.' Let’s look at the actual math of human input required to do what a 0-input script does:

The Gear Math: To change 16 slots manually, you don't just 'click' 16 times. You have to open the inventory, scroll to the category, select the slot, scroll through your sets, find the piece, and confirm. That is roughly 3 to 5 inputs per slot. (16 slots x 4 inputs = 64 actions).

The Skill Math: To change 12 skills, you must open the skill menu, navigate to the correct class/weapon/guild line, find the skill, and slot it. Often across two different bars. (12 skills x 3 inputs = 36 actions).

The CP Math: Changing 12 CP stars is the most intensive. You have to open the CP tree, navigate to the specific constellation (Warfare, Fitness, or Craft), find the star, add the points, and—most importantly—hit the 'Commit' button to pay the gold cost.

The 100+ Total: When you add up the scrolling, clicking, navigating, and committing for gear, skills, and CP, you are easily performing well over 100 manual inputs to achieve a full build swap.

The Difference: * Manual Player: 100+ intentional button presses over 30–60 seconds.

Script User: 0 inputs over 0.0 seconds.

You say the only difference is 'time.' In a competitive game, time is the advantage. If a script performs 100 actions for you instantly while you walk into a boss room, you aren't 'saving time'—you are using a program to bypass the mechanical requirements of the Official UI.

If you think 100-to-0 automation is just 'Quality of Life,' then you don't value the One-Action Rule that ZOS put in place to keep the game fair."

On PC it is 40 actions. So, with this being said, now make devs bring the same console interface to PC, because console players have to make more actions, so it is unfair.

heimdall14_9 · February 27

imPDA wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

imPDA wrote: »

Let's tune a bit down, as I continue seeing obviously false statements. "100+ items, skills, and CP stars" wtf? You have 16 gear slots (5 body, 3 jewelry, 4 weapon and 2 poison slots), 12 skill slots (5+1 x2 panels), and 12 CP slots, total you can change: 40. You either did not manage to memorize how much slots exist in the game (in your 48k hours of playing), or you are faking 48k. And you obviously overexaggerating arguments to seem legit, but it is not.

The only thing matter what is the outcome of any action. Can you change gear manually? Yes. Can WW change gear for you? Yes. So, what's the difference? Time. If you value your time, you will find ways to save it. If you are upset you spent too much time manually swapping gear, it is understandable, we get it, but please stop it. Thank you!

"imPDA, you are confusing 'slots' with 'actions.' Let’s look at the actual math of human input required to do what a 0-input script does:

The Gear Math: To change 16 slots manually, you don't just 'click' 16 times. You have to open the inventory, scroll to the category, select the slot, scroll through your sets, find the piece, and confirm. That is roughly 3 to 5 inputs per slot. (16 slots x 4 inputs = 64 actions).

The Skill Math: To change 12 skills, you must open the skill menu, navigate to the correct class/weapon/guild line, find the skill, and slot it. Often across two different bars. (12 skills x 3 inputs = 36 actions).

The CP Math: Changing 12 CP stars is the most intensive. You have to open the CP tree, navigate to the specific constellation (Warfare, Fitness, or Craft), find the star, add the points, and—most importantly—hit the 'Commit' button to pay the gold cost.

The 100+ Total: When you add up the scrolling, clicking, navigating, and committing for gear, skills, and CP, you are easily performing well over 100 manual inputs to achieve a full build swap.

The Difference: * Manual Player: 100+ intentional button presses over 30–60 seconds.

Script User: 0 inputs over 0.0 seconds.

You say the only difference is 'time.' In a competitive game, time is the advantage. If a script performs 100 actions for you instantly while you walk into a boss room, you aren't 'saving time'—you are using a program to bypass the mechanical requirements of the Official UI.

If you think 100-to-0 automation is just 'Quality of Life,' then you don't value the One-Action Rule that ZOS put in place to keep the game fair."

On PC it is 40 actions. So, with this being said, now make devs bring the same console interface to PC, because console players have to make more actions, so it is unfair.

pc controller ui is same as psn the m&kb ui i never liked

imPDA · February 27

Well, I am talking about replacing kb UI with controller UI, because kb UI is faster than controller UI, so it is unfair, right?

P.S. My bad not clarifying it in advance. By PC UI I always mean KB and mouse UI.

heimdall14_9 · February 27

imPDA wrote: »

Well, I am talking about replacing kb UI with controller UI, because kb UI is faster than controller UI, so it is unfair, right?

P.S. My bad not clarifying it in advance. By PC UI I always mean KB and mouse UI.

that would be an different topic but your welcome to start an post and do something about if youd like being it be an pc issue not psn i think youd be a better person to start that fight

frogthroat · February 27

imPDA wrote: »

If you are upset you spent too much time manually swapping gear, it is understandable, we get it, but please stop it.

No, he actually prides himself in fast menu scrolling. He considers it a great gameplay mechanic and a skill to strive for.

I did mention that I value adept skills in mathematics more than adept menu scrolling, and WW enables users to make much more intricate and complex setups than would be feasible when you spend your time looking at menus. This, of course, would require much more mathematics and testing, to optimise at this level -- I value it and admire those people who demonstrate superior brain power by extreme optimisation and he values fast menu scrolling minigame. However, my mistake was to include one small sentence, a side note really, in the post and he got again stuck on that one single, insignificant thing and made it the entire response, forgetting the meat of the matter.

imPDA · February 27

I am not going to start because it is absurd, same absurd as yours.

The fact some addon developer made life easier for everyone is a huge win-win for players and dev, because some of them get access to fast gear change because of accessibility issues, some of them just can save time, and UI is the thing players interact with the game, better UI = happier players, happier players = more players, so devs are affected in positive way too. And addon dev even spent time and ported it to console! Making it remove features is just disrespect of time spent.

If you want to discuss this topic further, just report a feature via official report system, devs will look into this and take actions or not if they are OK with that feature. Here you will not find any support, and you look like the guy who looks for attention and not going to take any serious actions, like reporting it official way.

AlterBlika · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

The Problem: Add-ons like Wizards Wardrobe (WW) bypass these intentional design choices entirely. WW identifies the world state (Boss vs. Trash) and executes 60+ actions in a single GCD—swapping gear, skills, CP, and food—without a single player button press.

This is intended. Imo you fail to understand that in order for addon to work the corresponding features must be exposed to the API. Addons don't hack their way into the game client's process; rather the game itself loads them and allows them to do some stuff. They might simply never allow addons to swap gears, etc, but they never did - which means such addons are 100% legitimate.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

1. The Conflict: Intentional Design vs. "Autopilot"
ZOS invested significant resources into the UI Respec and Armory systems. These tools were intentionally built to require manual player interaction to prevent exploits and maintain the "out-of-combat" philosophy in veteran content.

Armory is an old system and it was meant to serve a completely different purpose. For example you would use it to switch to a pvp or a tank build from your pve dd or whatever. You wouldn't use it to just swap sets.

With the upcoming update armory might become absolete if addons can replicate it given that the respecs are going to be free (although idk if you can respec skills from anywhere, I don't follow the game much now). And honestly? Good riddance. This is coming from someone who bought an armory assistant because it was a necessity.

heimdall14_9 · February 27

AlterBlika wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

The Problem: Add-ons like Wizards Wardrobe (WW) bypass these intentional design choices entirely. WW identifies the world state (Boss vs. Trash) and executes 60+ actions in a single GCD—swapping gear, skills, CP, and food—without a single player button press.

This is intended. Imo you fail to understand that in order for addon to work the corresponding features must be exposed to the API. Addons don't hack their way into the game client's process; rather the game itself loads them and allows them to do some stuff. They might simply never allow addons to swap gears, etc, but they never did - which means such addons are 100% legitimate.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

1. The Conflict: Intentional Design vs. "Autopilot"
ZOS invested significant resources into the UI Respec and Armory systems. These tools were intentionally built to require manual player interaction to prevent exploits and maintain the "out-of-combat" philosophy in veteran content.

Armory is an old system and it was meant to serve a completely different purpose. For example you would use it to switch to a pvp or a tank build from your pve dd or whatever. You wouldn't use it to just swap sets.

With the upcoming update armory might become absolete if addons can replicate it given that the respecs are going to be free (although idk if you can respec skills from anywhere, I don't follow the game much now). And honestly? Good riddance. This is coming from someone who bought an armory assistant because it was a necessity.

"AlterBlika, your argument assumes that the existence of an API function is the same as an endorsement of how it's used. That isn't how the Add-on Terms work.

The API is Not a Rulebook: ZOS provides the API to allow for UI customization, but the Code of Conduct and the One-Action Rule still sit on top of it. If an add-on uses the API to automate 100+ actions with 0 input, it is violating the policy, regardless of whether the API 'allows' the data to pass. ZOS has broken many add-ons in the past that were 'API legitimate' but 'Policy illegal.'

The Autopilot Reality: You say the Armory is 'old' and meant for different things, but look at what Wizard's Wardrobe is actually doing. It allows a player to swap from DPS (Trash) → Tank (Boss 1) → Healer (Boss 2) → DPS (Final Boss) completely on autopilot.

Removing the Player: In an RPG, choosing your role and preparing your gear for an encounter is a core mechanic. When a script senses your location and overhauls your entire character's power level without you even touching a menu, the 'player' has been removed from the equation. That isn't 'Quality of Life'; it's a script playing the game for you.

Intentional Design: ZOS built the Armory Assistant and the Respec system with manual requirements for a reason. They want players to be present and intentional. Bypassing that with 0-input automation is a direct contradiction of the game's design philosophy.

I’m not 'missing the point' of the API. I’m pointing out that when you use it to create an autopilot that handles 100+ actions while you just walk forward, you are breaking the integrity of the combat. If you want a game that plays itself, there are mobile idles for that—this is meant to be an Elder Scrolls RPG."
these actions might be old for pc but they new to psn

UntilValhalla13 · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

imPDA wrote: »

Let's tune a bit down, as I continue seeing obviously false statements. "100+ items, skills, and CP stars" wtf? You have 16 gear slots (5 body, 3 jewelry, 4 weapon and 2 poison slots), 12 skill slots (5+1 x2 panels), and 12 CP slots, total you can change: 40. You either did not manage to memorize how much slots exist in the game (in your 48k hours of playing), or you are faking 48k. And you obviously overexaggerating arguments to seem legit, but it is not.

The only thing matter what is the outcome of any action. Can you change gear manually? Yes. Can WW change gear for you? Yes. So, what's the difference? Time. If you value your time, you will find ways to save it. If you are upset you spent too much time manually swapping gear, it is understandable, we get it, but please stop it. Thank you!

"imPDA, you are confusing 'slots' with 'actions.' Let’s look at the actual math of human input required to do what a 0-input script does:

The Gear Math: To change 16 slots manually, you don't just 'click' 16 times. You have to open the inventory, scroll to the category, select the slot, scroll through your sets, find the piece, and confirm. That is roughly 3 to 5 inputs per slot. (16 slots x 4 inputs = 64 actions).

The Skill Math: To change 12 skills, you must open the skill menu, navigate to the correct class/weapon/guild line, find the skill, and slot it. Often across two different bars. (12 skills x 3 inputs = 36 actions).

The CP Math: Changing 12 CP stars is the most intensive. You have to open the CP tree, navigate to the specific constellation (Warfare, Fitness, or Craft), find the star, most importantly—hit the 'Commit' button

The 100+ Total: When you add up the scrolling, clicking, navigating, and committing for gear, skills, and CP, you are easily performing well over 100 manual inputs to achieve a full build swap.

The Difference: * Manual Player: 100+ intentional button presses over 30–60 seconds.

Script User: 0 inputs over 0.0 seconds.

You say the only difference is 'time.' In a competitive game, time is the advantage. If a script performs 100 actions for you instantly while you walk into a boss room, you aren't 'saving time'—you are using a program to bypass the mechanical requirements of the Official UI.

If you think 100-to-0 automation is just 'Quality of Life,' then you don't value the One-Action Rule that ZOS put in place to keep the game fair."

So pc can have these things for years, but God forbid console people have a bone thrown their way. BuT iT rEqUiReS bUtToN pReSseS! Yeah. I'm pushing up on my analog stick to advance to the next section. All of the speed runs and trifectas over the years were based off of pc's add ons. Boom! All of their gear switched over in a second. YEARS. Us on console have had to literally switch everything over while in speed runs as fast as the person is able. Do you know how much of a CHORE that is? How ANTIQUATED it feels? I've put too many damn hours (over 13 thousand) and thousands of dollars into this video game. I'm TIRED, dude.

For once, in recent memory, it hasn't felt like a slog just to play the game. It still feels like a dream. Wait, I don't have to micromanage everything just to enjoy a video game?

Remember when you needed rapids for expedition on mounts? Now we have a passive. I guess that passive AuToMaTeS oUr GaMePlAy. You see how that sounds? Nah. Nobody had a problem with these third party programs on pc for the better part of a decade enough to do something about it. DECADE. Upwards of 10...years... Having to memorize every single twitch of a raid boss to know what's coming up? Having to use a stop watch in VAS. Pc though? Nah, here's when that attack happens 20 seconds from now. Here's your gear swap from boss to trash gear to save 14 seconds on a speed run.

IT'S. EXHAUSTING.

heimdall14_9 · February 27

imPDA wrote: »

I am not going to start because it is absurd, same absurd as yours.

The fact some addon developer made life easier for everyone is a huge win-win for players and dev, because some of them get access to fast gear change because of accessibility issues, some of them just can save time, and UI is the thing players interact with the game, better UI = happier players, happier players = more players, so devs are affected in positive way too. And addon dev even spent time and ported it to console! Making it remove features is just disrespect of time spent.

If you want to discuss this topic further, just report a feature via official report system, devs will look into this and take actions or not if they are OK with that feature. Here you will not find any support, and you look like the guy who looks for attention and not going to take any serious actions, like reporting it official way.

"imPDA, labeling a factual discussion about 0-input automation as 'absurd' is not an argument—it is a way to disengage because you cannot justify why a script should perform 100+ actions for a player.

The Goal of My Posts: You claim I’m looking for attention rather than taking 'serious action.' On the contrary, I am reporting this publicly to the ZOS team specifically because the Automation Crisis affects the entire community's integrity. Bringing transparency to an exploit is the most serious action a veteran player can take.

Convenience vs. Compliance: You argue that 'better UI = happier players,' but you are ignoring the fact that 'better UI' must still follow the One-Action Rule. A UI that plays the game for you isn't 'better'; it’s just an autopilot.

Disrespecting Time: You say removing these features is 'disrespectful' to the add-on developer's time. I would argue that allowing automation is disrespectful to the thousands of players who spend their time mastering the game manually.

If you choose to disengage because you find the Code of Conduct 'absurd,' that is your choice. But calling for the rules to be ignored just because a script is 'convenient' only proves that the dependency on automation has replaced the respect for manual skill."

heimdall14_9 · February 27

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

imPDA wrote: »

Let's tune a bit down, as I continue seeing obviously false statements. "100+ items, skills, and CP stars" wtf? You have 16 gear slots (5 body, 3 jewelry, 4 weapon and 2 poison slots), 12 skill slots (5+1 x2 panels), and 12 CP slots, total you can change: 40. You either did not manage to memorize how much slots exist in the game (in your 48k hours of playing), or you are faking 48k. And you obviously overexaggerating arguments to seem legit, but it is not.

The only thing matter what is the outcome of any action. Can you change gear manually? Yes. Can WW change gear for you? Yes. So, what's the difference? Time. If you value your time, you will find ways to save it. If you are upset you spent too much time manually swapping gear, it is understandable, we get it, but please stop it. Thank you!

"imPDA, you are confusing 'slots' with 'actions.' Let’s look at the actual math of human input required to do what a 0-input script does:

The Gear Math: To change 16 slots manually, you don't just 'click' 16 times. You have to open the inventory, scroll to the category, select the slot, scroll through your sets, find the piece, and confirm. That is roughly 3 to 5 inputs per slot. (16 slots x 4 inputs = 64 actions).

The Skill Math: To change 12 skills, you must open the skill menu, navigate to the correct class/weapon/guild line, find the skill, and slot it. Often across two different bars. (12 skills x 3 inputs = 36 actions).

The CP Math: Changing 12 CP stars is the most intensive. You have to open the CP tree, navigate to the specific constellation (Warfare, Fitness, or Craft), find the star, most importantly—hit the 'Commit' button

The 100+ Total: When you add up the scrolling, clicking, navigating, and committing for gear, skills, and CP, you are easily performing well over 100 manual inputs to achieve a full build swap.

The Difference: * Manual Player: 100+ intentional button presses over 30–60 seconds.

Script User: 0 inputs over 0.0 seconds.

You say the only difference is 'time.' In a competitive game, time is the advantage. If a script performs 100 actions for you instantly while you walk into a boss room, you aren't 'saving time'—you are using a program to bypass the mechanical requirements of the Official UI.

If you think 100-to-0 automation is just 'Quality of Life,' then you don't value the One-Action Rule that ZOS put in place to keep the game fair."

So pc can have these things for years, but God forbid console people have a bone thrown their way. BuT iT rEqUiReS bUtToN pReSseS! Yeah. I'm pushing up on my analog stick to advance to the next section. All of the speed runs and trifectas over the years were based off of pc's add ons. Boom! All of their gear switched over in a second. YEARS. Us on console have had to literally switch everything over while in speed runs as fast as the person is able. Do you know how much of a CHORE that is? How ANTIQUATED it feels? I've put too many damn hours (over 13 thousand) and thousands of dollars into this video game. I'm TIRED, dude.

For once, in recent memory, it hasn't felt like a slog just to play the game. It still feels like a dream. Wait, I don't have to micromanage everything just to enjoy a video game?

Remember when you needed rapids for expedition on mounts? Now we have a passive. I guess that passive AuToMaTeS oUr GaMePlAy. You see how that sounds? Nah. Nobody had a problem with these third party programs on pc for the better part of a decade enough to do something about it. DECADE. Upwards of 10...years... Having to memorize every single twitch of a raid boss to know what's coming up? Having to use a stop watch in VAS. Pc though? Nah, here's when that attack happens 20 seconds from now. Here's your gear swap from boss to trash gear to save 14 seconds on a speed run.

IT'S. EXHAUSTING.

UntilValhalla13, I hear you, and I truly understand that 'exhaustion.' After 13,000 hours, you’ve earned the right to be tired of fighting menus. But you are actually proving my point: you are describing the manual management of your character as a 'chore' that you are happy to have automated.

The PC 'Pass' is Over: You are right that PC has had these advantages for years, and it was wrong then, too. But the solution to PC players bypassing the Code of Conduct isn't to bring those same violations to console—it’s to fix the integrity of the game for everyone. Two wrongs don't make the One-Action Rule disappear.

Passive vs. Active Automation: You compared gear-swapping scripts to the mount speed passive. There is a massive difference. A Passive is a permanent, ZOS-designed stat change. A Script is a third-party tool that performs 100+ server-side actions (swapping gear, skills, and CP) with 0 input. One is a game mechanic; the other is an autopilot.

The 'Slog' is the Gameplay: Managing your build, memorizing boss 'twitches,' and being prepared is the "RPG" in MMORPG. If we automate the 'exhausting' parts like gear swaps and boss timers, we aren't 'playing' a game anymore—we are just watching a simulation.

Fix the UI, Don't Automate the Action: If swapping gear is a 'chore,' then ZOS needs to improve the Official UI (like adding a 'Manual Commit' button for gear sets). But letting a script do it for you on autopilot isn't a 'bone thrown to console players'—it’s the death of the skill gap.

I don't want you to be 'exhausted,' but I also don't want a game where the winner is the person with the best script instead of the best hands. Integrity means the rules apply even when we're tired."

imPDA · February 27

There is no "automation crisis", your LLM hallucinated it.
There is no "One-Action Rule", your LLM hallucinated it.

I respect manual mastering; this is their choice. I am not trying to make them use addons, they don't make me stop using addons. Why do you do this? You just making manual masters look pity instead of being proud of it.

wolfie1.0. · February 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

You argue that ZOS is required to enforce the rules they set. That is not true. ZOS has reserved the rights according to their own tos and code of conduct to decide enforcement. We can request they do so, we cannot demand they do so. That's part of the agreement. If they determine its an issue they will address it.

Honestly, and personally I dont care either way. But what I do care about is equality of enforcement.

If Dressing Room and Wizards Wardrobe are banned do to violations of automation then the following popular addons or addon scripting should be banned as well:

- Lazy Writ Crafting: the automatic pulling of items from banks, opening of rewards boxes, and auto Crafting are time savers that serve similar time saving functions
- Writworthy: automatically crafts items based on master writs in inventory
- Lazy set crafter: allows you to set parameters and will automatically craft items you set.
- TTC, ATT, and MM: all trade addons that automatically save and export sales data from guild sales to power pricing tools. The average pricing calculations are all automatically done.
-godsend and similar addons: automates sending mass mails to guilds
-addons that automatically junk undesirable items that you collect
-addons that automatically read mail messages and return to send of RTS is detected
- addons that auto charge or auto repair gear
- addons that detect what dungeon or trial you are in and provide mechanics notifications
- addons that send out automatic invites to groups and guilds
- EHT: that automates saved housing configuration
- combat metrics: automatically tracks combat output and displays results and further analytics to review - addons that automatically search traders for specific items.
- essentially any addon that automates any aspect of gameplay that is not included in the base gameplay.

All of the above addons and similar ones have base functions of automation that while serving different purposes and roles all do the same thing. They save a configuration of specific parameters and when conditions are met they trigger.

Saving where furniture is placed in a home and deploying it is the same function as WW and DR. Same applies to Lazy Writ and set crafting. You select the parameters and it automatically deploys once the interaction with the proper conditions starts.

TTC and MM when triggers are met automatically export data, and then provide analytics with results.

Combat metrics automatically tracks you combat interaction and provides calculations

TL;DR: a fair application of the automation aspect that the OP is looking to have enforced would also ban the vast majority of other addons or require them to make extensive changes. Not doing so would not be an equitable form of enforcement. Granted zos is not required to do that, but the optics wouldnt look good.

"wolfie1.0., you’ve provided quite a list. It sounds like you are the 'Add-on King,' while I am simply a player who has mastered the game manually over 48,000 hours.

The Duty to Report: You’ve listed dozens of tools that you believe perform automation. If you truly feel those add-ons violate the Add-on Terms or the Code of Conduct, then why are you posting a list here instead of doing the right thing and reporting them? It is the responsibility of every player to protect the integrity of the game. If you see a violation, don't just 'coward down' to the masses because the tools are popular.

Information vs. Automation: You are intentionally blurring the lines. There is a massive difference between an add-on that displays data (like Combat Metrics) and an add-on that executes 60+ server-side combat actions (like WW) with zero player input. One helps you learn; the other plays the game for you.

Equitable Enforcement: You argue that ZOS isn't 'required' to enforce their rules. While they have discretion, a Code of Conduct that is never enforced isn't a rulebook—it’s a suggestion. I’m not asking for 'optics'; I’m asking for the game I’ve put 10 years into to have a level playing field where skill is manual, not scripted.

The Manual Standard: I don't need 'Roomba' to stack items or 'Lazy Writ' to craft. I do it myself. If the 'vast majority' of PC add-ons are automating the game, then the Automation Crisis is even worse than I thought.

If you believe these tools are wrong, stand up and say so. Don't use them as a shield to protect an exploit just because you're afraid of losing your 'conveniences.' I’d rather play a game with zero add-ons and 100% integrity than a game that plays itself."

As far as being an "add-on" king. i read a lot. i participate in the forums a lot. I play a lot. I experiment with addons a lot. i have many accounts just so i can do things like recreate the new player experience. Some i play with a ton of addons, some i dont play with any. I have one account dedicated to playing ESO from the beginning in only first person mode addon free, i even have one where i just sit around and go fishing. Others, i have run guilds from and i use for crafting writs, farming, and leading guilds. Point being i have also played a LOT of ESO.... maybe too much of eso... but that is a topic for another time.

But i have a few points i want to clear up were i stand on, because you seem to misunderstand my position.

Duty to Report: Other than specific instances mentioned in the TOS, outside of that i dont have a duty to report. and I don't feel than any of the addons i listed apply to those conditions. ZOS already knows about the addons i listed. They even employed one of the addon authors that uses automated features. I doubt they would have done so if what he was doing was considered against their policies.

For the sake of the argument though, lets assume players DID have a duty to report such issues. many of these addons have been in place with their automated scripts for many many years. DR and WW included...and were publicly discussed in forums and by streamers, to the point where it was known what these addons can and can't do.

Information vs. Automation: I am not the one blurring the lines. you grossly overstate what WW can do. you claim it can do "60+ server side combat actions" and "will play the game for you" last i checked the addon makes changes and will take actions precombat, it will get you ready for it, and swap gear and skills you know around, but it will not actually preform combat for you. Even with the addon you still need to actually be able to complete the fights so your claim is misleading (if it has a function i am not aware of please disclose and provide an example). Combat Metrics tracks your fights, registers what skills you trigger, it also actively participates in recording the same data for the entire party. These calculations require the same type of automated scripting that is used in WW and similar addons. Knowing how a battle went, and having access to that information can be just as disruptive to gameplay as you claim WW is, but whether something is informational or not, the output has less meaning to the provisions you wish to have the Code Of Conduct applied to than how that information is sourced and gathered. If WW is using an automated script based on in game cooridinates or the detection of a boss bar to equip gear, pots, learned skills, etc. Combat metrics uses that same type of scripting to record and track battles, fights, caculate your DPS, and provide it to you. What the output is shouldn't matter as much as how its obtained.

Equitable Enforcement: I never claimed that ZOS doesn't enforce the Code of Conduct, TOS, or EULA. I said that they reserve the right to enforce it at their discreation. We can request enforcement actions, nothing more. They have the right to interpet, change, or enforce it however they want. My request is that if they enforce it they do so equitably, and that if they enforce what you want then they should do so accross the board. the addons i listed are ones that have automated functions that are scripted by third parties and have automated features similar to the addons that you are targetting here.

The Manual Standard: i have an honest question here. You don't play ESO with any hotkeys or addons right? no UI addons? no changes from what options ZOS provides? even on your PC accounts? If so then i admire your craft.

regardless though, A lot the the addons i mentioned are ones that have been created to address some quality of life issues that players want. they are among the most popular addons in the game. Many of them have been around for years, and very publicy so, ZOS is very much aware of them.

In the end, i think it should be up to the players to play how they want.

Nothing is stopping you from finding like minded people and having fun with no addons. If people say they require you to use addons to play with them, you dont have to play with them. If ZOS has allowed others to create and use addons for years doing what many consider are quality of life addons, and you object to others using them, well thats really the only thing i can oppose.

Either way, good luck with the endeavor, its going to be an uphill as the majority of the community is going to push back on the change you want around this.

imPDA · February 27

It is the same as reverse racism, if you think about it yourself, without LLM involvded.