State of the game for NBs - 1.1.2 nerf (dk buff...?)

Morolivrim21 · May 2014

Looking over the patch notes i didn't see anything regarding attack speed affecting bows, especially haste and its morphs. Does haste and weighted traits work on bows now or is that skill broken?

ShedsHisTail · May 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

So any time estimate on when we'll get this update post?

Still working on it, with the Dev Team and QA. The goal is still to post it today.

I think I speak for many who prefer the Nightblade class when I say we appreciate the special attention and your willingness to let us in on you and the Dev Team's future plans for the class.

I think I also speak for many Nightblades when I say that these fixes should be given special priority.

Your game has four classes, each loosely based on the standard RPG archetypes; Fighter (DK), Mage (Sorc), Rogue (NB), and Healer (Temp). One of those four is broken. Not imbalanced and in need of nerfs or buffs; broken. Now, assuming there's a pretty even distribution of character populations, that's a full 25% of characters with basic functions which do not work.

That's a very different issue than characters whose abilities might be a over-/under-powered. At least those work.

Now, back to the issue of Archetypes.

One of the arguments regularly encountered by people asking for Nightblade fixes is that "Nightblades are fine, just use X build." where X build is something rather far outside the archetypal box. Yes, ESO is a game which allows us to break the mold, and that's awesome; but some of us -want- to play the archetype. Some of us want to sneak around, jumping in and out of shadows with blades flashing in the torchlight. Some of us want hide in the shrubs and pick off targets with our mad archery skills. But unfortunately, those most definitively archetypal builds are unreliable at best, and essentially invalid after about VR2.

It saddens me to know that the issues with this class are so varied and so well known that I'm not longer desired for group play. I sort of expected the variety of character builds to help negate that sort of attitude because your Class would matter less than what you've decided to do with it; but anymore, everyone knows of the Nightblade's issues and, regardless of build, few groups want to be burdened with them.

So, yeah, even though I've been patiently awaiting the lackluster fixes in build 1.1.2 and defending your Dev Team and encouraging patience among the community, the rumor that we may not see any -real- fixes until 1.2 is disappointing. Really disappointing.

Four to Six weeks between major content updates. That's two to three months, for Nightblades, until basic functionality is granted to their characters. That's like buying a car and then having the dealer tell you it'll be 90 days before you can have tires.

It's unacceptable.

This issue needs special attention and it needs to come well before 1.2.

Sincerely,

Sheds-His-Tail
Coward

Ciarán · May 2014

Jaxom wrote: »

Ciarán wrote: »

dragnier wrote: »

Ciarán wrote: »

dragnier wrote: »

Ciarán wrote: »

iDoseDMT wrote: »

Yea Death Stroke is complete **** now, just tested in game and it does exactly half the damage it used to do at Veteran Rank 10 with all Legendary gear on a lesser NPC....well below what Surprise Attack does. Well done ZOS

Edit: Will post with combat logs shortly

Screenshot of combat logs: http://i.imgur.com/VViPhTo.jpg

That screenshot is extremely misleading and biased, IMO.

I am assuming the battle went something like this.

Stealth + Dark Cloak -> Surprise Attack
Battle
Dark Cloak -> Soul Harvest

This is based primarily on timestamps. The first damage against the Wasp was Surprise Attack, and the most likely skill combination leading up to that would be stealthing in and using Dark Cloak to close the remaining distance. From there, over the next few seconds, he is using multiple different abilities prior to casting Soul Harvest. (Additionally, we cannot even tell if Soul Harvest was done after casting Dark Cloak. I am going to assume it was though.)

So you are comparing Stealth + Invis + Surprise Attack against just Invis + Soul Harvest. This is an invalid comparison. The Surprise Attack is benefiting from the guaranteed crit from normal stealth, in addition to any damage bonuses granted from coming out of Dark Cloak. Soul Harvest, on the other hand, is just getting the damage bonuses for coming out of Dark Cloak. Additionally, it did not even crit.

Until I see screenshots showing the Stealth + Invis damage of Soul Harvest vs Stealth + Invis damage of Surprise Attack, I will hold out reservations. Until then, this picture is proof of nothing.

Would not matter, they removed the bonus dmg from stealth for Soul Harvest. Even if he was stealthed, it would not change the damage.

Would it not change the damage? Are you 100% sure, or is this pure speculation?

Either way, I still want to see proof of it before I call foul. In the notes, they said it will still cause a guaranteed critical hit. I will still hold reservations until I see exactly what effect this change has in actual raw numbers in the exact same circumstances as that Surprise Attack.

Yes, I'm sure because they said in the patch notes that it would not benefit from the stealth bonus damage. So Soul Harvest + Stealth + Invis = Soul Harvest + Invis = Soul Harvest + Stealth = Soul Harvest + Crit.

Basically, Soul Harvest and all of its different morphs are the same damage in every situation now as long as you have the same amount of Ultimate built up.

So the only variable to really consider is how much Ultimate they had built up before they did the test.

You may be right, but I would still prefer to reserve judgement on the change until I can test it out for myself, where I can control all of the factors and make a truly informed decision. There are too many unknown factors to take that screenshot as gospel. Namely.
Was the Soul Harvest from Invis or not?

Does he have Shadowy Disguise or Dark Cloak?

If he had Shadowy Disguise and Soul Harvest was from invis, why did it not crit? (Even if the damage was not multiplied, the addon he was using should display "You CRIT Wasp for XXX with Soul Harvest" instead of "You hit Wasp for XXX with Soul Harvest".)

How much ultimate did he have saved up at the time? 1000 ultimate? 50?

Really, all I am saying is, we need more testing to discover the full extent of the change before we grab the pitchforks and light the torches.

I can tell you that my build was built around using Soul Harvest for crit. It was one of the only ways my build dealt with 13k HP bosses in PvE. I took a large chunk out upfront and tried to burst them down faster than they could kill me. My best crit was somewhere around 4.4k with Reaper's Mark. Going to have to reevaluate now.

Have you managed to get in game to test these changes out yet, or are you just judging based upon that screenshot?

I ask because I am genuinely curious as to your experiences with the change, and what impact on the damage output you personally have noticed. (I'm also guessing you run Shadowy Disguise as opposed to Dark Cloak?)

Beretic · May 2014

The first and only character I created and play actively (Since beta mind you); Is a Nightblade. This type of character is a stealthier DPS Power House. Or so it should be.

Since the beginning of this game, (Even in beta) This class has been broken. Not broken good but broken bad. I think I might have cried a little bit to see these patch notes.

Instead of the love the devs were promising, they *** them over even more with a nerf. Broken passives. Broken skills. Broken mechanics.

Why are the devs so scared to give NB's love to make them even on the playing field!? WHY

Sorc's / DK's and now even Templars outmatch and outskill any NB.

So now, Im sitting here wondering what can I ever bring to the table in a GvG/AvA or even a 1v1 when my one and only character is broken beyond repair.

Don't you dare say go Destro/Resto because that is not a NB. That is the creation of people who are OK with not utilizing 90% of their class skills and can settle for a substandard hybrid build.

This is a shout-out to the Zos- Dev team. FIX MY *** CLASS

Solanum · May 2014

Nightblades need some love.

I understand the nerf to the assassination ultimate.
And it is still an amazing tool, low cost healing reduction and solid damage.

That we cannot oneshot people from stealth, seems like a step towards balance in my opinion.

I rather lose this ability, and not grant the other classes the argument "but Nightblades oneshot me from stealth" so that the designers can focus on fixing our class, and place it on par with the other classes.

And yes, it is taking them quite a while. It would be nice if we could tell them what we would like to see buffed, rather then cry that we need buffs.

Personally, I'd say, improve our selfhealing, and give us a way to recover mana.

(outside of the siphoning attacks which gimps our already sad damage)

Beretic · May 2014

Agreed^

kirnmalidus · May 2014

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/100627/nightblade-update

Nightspectre · May 2014

McWop wrote: »

Malvokian wrote: »

McWop wrote: »

While I love my Nightblade, the fact that our broken class got a nerf

What nerf?

Death Stroke: This ability no longer receives the critical damage bonus when used as a sneak attack. It will still cause a stun and a guaranteed critical hit.

my entire build was focussed around building it up and getting a sneaky huge crit on someone in PvP, now it only normal crits out of crouched stealth, no bonus crit damage (against an enemy player it'll do ~800 damage instead of 2k damage when fully charged from stealth)

This is because your entire build was placed around an Insta-Gib idea to 1-2 shot ppl in pvp. You may have been playing to the strengths of that ability but 2k dmg is more than most ultimate's hit for. I don't condemn you for doing this either, you saw a easily manipulated mechanic and used it well it seems, however the devs decided this was not its intended use, hence its balance to a mechanic which is in no way a nerf.

Your options are now to find another way to utilize clever use of mechanics to achieve your previous 2k hit or put forth additional effort to kill your opponents.

+1 for balance

Eivar · May 2014

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

That's like buying a car and then having the dealer tell you it'll be 90 days before you can have tires.

lulz my friend lulz

I logged onto my nb and did some pvp w ith him, found a few bugfixes, pressure points show reliable changes in on the character sheet, you get 3% per assassination ability slotted, though the tooltip number varies, literally, i've seen it at one point say 3% and another 6% and another 9%, havn't tested extensively to see what is going on, but as far as the character sheet goes it only ever does 3% per assassination ability, so at least we have something we can see happening, also for you dual wielders, twin blade and blunt now works! and the thief stone shows up! my NB is running with 50% crit right now lol

Phaedryn · May 2014

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

McWop wrote: »

SO while DKs and sorcs have there run of the game right now, the most broken class gets basically ignored.

You haven't read 1.1.2 notes properly, have you? DK had shield bash nerfed which is a big thing. Both damage and stamina reduction have been decreased.

I agree that NB is broken ATM but see if it works better after the update

Everyone (including us NB Tanks) got shield bash nerfed...

OkieDokie · May 2014

It seems concealed blades it not working properly after the patch (sneak bonus happening randomly no matter how good I place myself). Now, if it's not just my NB (and I hope not), this is a BIG issue because the opening was pretty much the most decent thing I had.

Anyone else getting this?

moXrox · May 2014

In general the NB class needs fixes but when it comes to

* Death Stroke

--> With people getting crits over 7k using Death Stroke and one shotting people in pvp I think we all knew that it was going to be nerfed.

One Two · May 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

Don't worry they plan to fix some unmentioned aspect of NB at some point in the next 6-400 weeks.

This.

I laughed when i read that Matt was "leveling" his NB...yeah 1 to 50...no problem.
Vr1 to 10...BIIIG problem.
the new zone is basically anti NB, forget getting a good spot on a group.
NB are dead.
DKs get buffed, we get a nerf.

i think it's time to cut our losses and re-roll for a DK or simply quit and play wild star or the new MMOs that will come out

ZOS doesn't care, because ppl re roll for the FOTM, hence NB statistical player numbers are low, so we are a low priority, only no one thought about it too much, that a broken class will NOT GET PLAYED.

who ever is in charge needs to wake the *** up.

McWop · May 2014

monkeymystic wrote: »

kirnmalidus wrote: »

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

OP claimed DK's got a buff. They didn't. They got nerfed in the gut.

Some aspects of DK got nerfed, but they also got a number of buffs. Read the patch notes:

Burning Breath (Fiery Breath morph): Fixed an issue where this ability was doing less damage than intended. BUFF
Burning Embers: This ability now heals you if your enemy target dies while affected by it. BUFF
Dark Talons:
This ability can now damage monsters with snare immunity. BUFF
Fixed an issue where allies were not able to activate the synergy from Dark Talons. BUFF
Reduced the overall radius. NERF
Inhale (and morphs): This ability’s initial life drain morphs can now hit a maximum of three targets. This also applies to Inhale’s morphs. NERF
Petrify (and morphs): The enemy target’s health regeneration bonus while they were affected by Petrify and its morphs has been removed. BUFF
Razor Armor: Fixed an issue where this ability wasn’t granting bonus armor for the first 3.5 seconds. BUFF
Spiked Armor (and morphs): The damage return for this ability and its morphs has been increased. BUFF

So 7-2 Buff to Nerf. I'd call that an overall buff, not a "nerf in the gut."

LOL

So by your thinking, its like this:

Recieves 1$ BUFF
Recieves 1$ BUFF
Recieves 1$ BUFF
Lose 1000$ NERF

Your way of seeing that:
"duh hellooo, they got more buffffs omg! only one nerf and three buffs!!1"

Read what the notes and "buffs" you talk about actually are. its some minor bug fixes and major nerfs.

lol, DK whining about their nerfs, you are STILL the most powerful class in the game. GTFO you were broken and ruined pvp for anyone who wasnt a DK. expect more nerfs

McWop · May 2014

Sleepydan wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

clueless wrote: »

McWop wrote: »

against an enemy player it'll do ~800 damage instead of 2k damage when fully charged from stealth

1 shot kill? no wonder it got nerfed

A one shot kill with full ultimate that you have to sneak up on them from behind and can only kill one person is not really OP.

concealed weapon from stealth does about 1800, as a point of reference. Most folks have around 3k hp. How is that even a one shot?

no, thats on a mob, not a player