starkerealm wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »SeanBlader wrote: »LOL, this thread is funny. Back in my day we had one character slot. If you wanted another you had to pay the monthly fee for a second account, there was no free to play.
The game isnt f2p
So? We can never change anything?starkerealm wrote: »Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »There is literally no truly valid reason why the number of character slots in eso should be so comparatively low. Please give us more character slots zos.
Database considerations.
This. The databases used to store character and account data are, by all reports, huge.
haha, I just think of my inventory in second life - over 170,000 items - and I'm not even one of the heavy users - I know quite a couple of people in the 250k and 500k items range - for a single character - database issues are nowadays not a problem.
Database issues are _always_ a problem.
I greatly doubt that is the problem with allowing more. How they architected things may be an issue, but storage is relatively cheap these days, especially in a database.
It's not the storage, it's the access time.
DreamsUnderStars wrote: »I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??
FlopsyPrince wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »SeanBlader wrote: »LOL, this thread is funny. Back in my day we had one character slot. If you wanted another you had to pay the monthly fee for a second account, there was no free to play.
The game isnt f2p
So? We can never change anything?starkerealm wrote: »Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »There is literally no truly valid reason why the number of character slots in eso should be so comparatively low. Please give us more character slots zos.
Database considerations.
This. The databases used to store character and account data are, by all reports, huge.
haha, I just think of my inventory in second life - over 170,000 items - and I'm not even one of the heavy users - I know quite a couple of people in the 250k and 500k items range - for a single character - database issues are nowadays not a problem.
Database issues are _always_ a problem.
I greatly doubt that is the problem with allowing more. How they architected things may be an issue, but storage is relatively cheap these days, especially in a database.
It's not the storage, it's the access time.
How would the number of characters impact the access time? It shouldn't except for very bad architecture.
starkerealm wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »SeanBlader wrote: »LOL, this thread is funny. Back in my day we had one character slot. If you wanted another you had to pay the monthly fee for a second account, there was no free to play.
The game isnt f2p
So? We can never change anything?starkerealm wrote: »Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »There is literally no truly valid reason why the number of character slots in eso should be so comparatively low. Please give us more character slots zos.
Database considerations.
This. The databases used to store character and account data are, by all reports, huge.
haha, I just think of my inventory in second life - over 170,000 items - and I'm not even one of the heavy users - I know quite a couple of people in the 250k and 500k items range - for a single character - database issues are nowadays not a problem.
Database issues are _always_ a problem.
I greatly doubt that is the problem with allowing more. How they architected things may be an issue, but storage is relatively cheap these days, especially in a database.
It's not the storage, it's the access time.
How would the number of characters impact the access time? It shouldn't except for very bad architecture.
I'm talking about for the database as a whole, not your individual account. It's part of why the whole cold storage system is important, because it means they can take accounts out of the active database to reduce search times.
Basically, this is an issue with any data loading function in programming. When you have a few hundred thousand records, it's not a problem, but when you're, literally, looking at tens of millions of records, the query time can start to become a real problem, even with modern hardware.
This is a mistake a lot of end users make when they're looking at databases. They think about their little corner of it, and how much stuff is there, without realizing just how large the entire database is, and that a lot of other users are accessing it at the same time.
Now, I'd guess that 18 is a pretty arbitrary number. There's probably no reason it couldn't be 16, or 20, but this is the number that they've settled on, at least for now. It could also be metric driven. X% of the community has all 18 character slots. Until X>Y, no more slots.
That said, I'm pretty confident that part of the consideration here is related to database search times on login.
[Quoted post has been removed.]
wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
You realize there are lots of folks with 3 accounts and 18 toons on each account? Some with more accounts.
This is not that unusual at all.
etchedpixels wrote: »There are a bunch of reasons I can think of beyodn performance notablty - the more characters you have the more you can speed grind infinite gold on PC using addons and crafting, and probably more importantly to them the more characters you can create the more free storage you get so you don't have to grind chests/coffers or buy them in the cash shop.
I don't actually think Zenimax care about this. This update added the armoury which replaces extra characters with one character many (cash shop) builds. The next update on the PTS eliminates most per character tracking of achievements and makes having multiple characters kind of meaningless - you can no longer separately track dungeons done on your healer or dps etc, and a lot of the quests break or the dialogue goes insane if you've got multiple toons. Maybe they fix some of that but they tend to ignore bugs and claim we want new content instead.
So the direction from Zenimax appears to be to remove the value of extra toons not improve it.
Infinite gold? Not quite.
I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!
Speed grind infinite gold? You do know what 'infinite' means, right? There's a limit you can get every day, even with 18 characters, that's not anything near infinite. You also say it like everyone playing the game is doing this, when in fact it's been said by the devs that a lot of people playing don't make that many characters. Also, why are people still blaming crafting addons and making them seem like some evil cheat, when ZOS has introduced systems that make crafting writs WITHOUT the use of addons take only a few moments longer? Being able to easily make anything in bulk and having the quest markers to show exactly what you need means even people without crafting addons can do them on a large number of characters fairly quickly, so can we finally stop acting like addons are a magic cheat for lots of gold?etchedpixels wrote: »There are a bunch of reasons I can think of beyodn performance notablty - the more characters you have the more you can speed grind infinite gold on PC using addons and crafting, and probably more importantly to them the more characters you can create the more free storage you get so you don't have to grind chests/coffers or buy them in the cash shop.
I don't actually think Zenimax care about this. This update added the armoury which replaces extra characters with one character many (cash shop) builds. The next update on the PTS eliminates most per character tracking of achievements and makes having multiple characters kind of meaningless - you can no longer separately track dungeons done on your healer or dps etc, and a lot of the quests break or the dialogue goes insane if you've got multiple toons. Maybe they fix some of that but they tend to ignore bugs and claim we want new content instead.
So the direction from Zenimax appears to be to remove the value of extra toons not improve it.
See above for why it doesn't make sense for ZOS to push people into playing fewer characters for monetary gains when there are a bunch of things still character-bound that they'd lose money on if fewer people were buying them. Even if everyone had fewer characters and bought several Armory Slots, that's still a huge loss of profit considering all the other things people might get on characters because they don't want to wait out timers or grind things. A person with 3 characters who gets like 5 Armory Slots might also get the Skyshards and skills lines in those characters, but then not buy anything else since they're small number of characters are set.Absolutely agree. The crown cost for a new armory slot is the same as a totally new character slot. Think on that. Multiply by multiple characters and that's still big money. Combined with hybridisation, Account wide achievement, it feels like they'd prefer us to use a handful of characters. All you need is one class character with armory slots for specific content type, won't even need stam and mag slots, because soon it'll just be damage, heal, tank, pvp. 18 is a nuisance for them, with all of the data storage that entails.
I don't expect them to ever increase character slots again. And I'd wager they've had conversations about reducing character slots. For example limiting it to 12, 2 for each class. So legacy players would still have however many they've bought, but new players won't be able to buy more than the new limit. Recent changes are essentially making that many characters irrelevant to the majority of players. If you would dispute the direction of this game philosophy, and I do, then you would be in the minority. Zenimax have metrics on all player behaviour, and any game design decision they make is based on what the majority of players are doing.
Microsoft has come to town, and it's throwing its weight around. Expect the game to change focus, tighten up, and monetise.
Oh, I don't know, playing the game the way they think is fun?DreamsUnderStars wrote: »I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??
Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »DreamsUnderStars wrote: »I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??
Playing eso??
But that's the thing. People with a full roster are playing the game, they just prefer to have different characters that have a different style of play from one another. Some people might be fine with four characters. Other people find it more fun to have more and do different things on them.DreamsUnderStars wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »DreamsUnderStars wrote: »I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??
Playing eso??
lol you can do that with one character... says the RPer who as 4 characters.
My previous comment wasn't an attack, I was honestly curious what people do with 18 characters... I know people on lotro and gw2 who have multiple accounts all filled with characters. So it's not a new "thing" to me.
But that's the thing. People with a full roster are playing the game, they just prefer to have different characters that have a different style of play from one another. Some people might be fine with four characters. Other people find it more fun to have more and do different things on them.DreamsUnderStars wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »DreamsUnderStars wrote: »I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??
Playing eso??
lol you can do that with one character... says the RPer who as 4 characters.
My previous comment wasn't an attack, I was honestly curious what people do with 18 characters... I know people on lotro and gw2 who have multiple accounts all filled with characters. So it's not a new "thing" to me.
And people also like having a different character for each build, like having both a Stamina and Magicka Nightblade for each role, which is six characters right there (Stamblade healer, tank, and DPS, and Magblade healer, tank, and DPS). Despite the Armory being released, plenty of people will more than likely continue to make separate characters for their builds, rather than having one character do it all, because a lot of people will still prefer their characters be separate to continue doing different things from one another and continue being played as individuals.
Edit because I'm an idiot, characters can't be two Classes, it's too early for brain.
Infinite gold? Not quite.
I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!
I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.
DreamsUnderStars wrote: »Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »DreamsUnderStars wrote: »I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??
Playing eso??
lol you can do that with one character... says the RPer who as 4 characters.
My previous comment wasn't an attack, I was honestly curious what people do with 18 characters... I know people on lotro and gw2 who have multiple accounts all filled with characters. So it's not a new "thing" to me.
FlopsyPrince wrote: »Infinite gold? Not quite.
I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!
I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.
And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)
Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.
FlopsyPrince wrote: »Infinite gold? Not quite.
I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!
I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.
And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)
Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.
I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.
For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.
Nope, shouldn't call it an infinite gold grind when what you can get is limited to nowhere near an infinite amount. May as well be infinite doesn't come close either, because a) it's NOT the average player doing this on 18 characters, so that's a moot point, and b) someone going through effort of doing all the writs every day on 18 characters will be doing it because there are things they want to buy. They aren't getting a bunch of gold to never spend. And if you really want to go this "infinite" router then you could argue everyone who makes gold technically is making infinite gold, as it's being earned continuously during the course of playing the game.FlopsyPrince wrote: »Infinite gold? Not quite.
I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!
I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.
And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)
Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.
I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.
For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.
Not necessarily, people can get ESO accounts for relatively cheap, if you go base game. Plus it goes on sale fairly often. The base game seems to be about 20 bucks from what I've seen checking around, and 1.5k Crowns costs a little over 16 USD after tax. The huge downside to buying a new account is none of your Collections aside from pre-order bonuses and a few other things carry over, so even people with maxed character slots might not bother with a second account (I'm in this camp, I've considered getting a second account but I'd be "losing" too much since I'd have no access to my Dyes, all my Mounts/Pets/Costumes/etc, and so on).
Not necessarily, people can get ESO accounts for relatively cheap, if you go base game. Plus it goes on sale fairly often. The base game seems to be about 20 bucks from what I've seen checking around, and 1.5k Crowns costs a little over 16 USD after tax. The huge downside to buying a new account is none of your Collections aside from pre-order bonuses and a few other things carry over, so even people with maxed character slots might not bother with a second account (I'm in this camp, I've considered getting a second account but I'd be "losing" too much since I'd have no access to my Dyes, all my Mounts/Pets/Costumes/etc, and so on).
Nope, shouldn't call it an infinite gold grind when what you can get is limited to nowhere near an infinite amount. May as well be infinite doesn't come close either, because a) it's NOT the average player doing this on 18 characters, so that's a moot point, and b) someone going through effort of doing all the writs every day on 18 characters will be doing it because there are things they want to buy. They aren't getting a bunch of gold to never spend. And if you really want to go this "infinite" router then you could argue everyone who makes gold technically is making infinite gold, as it's being earned continuously during the course of playing the game.FlopsyPrince wrote: »Infinite gold? Not quite.
I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!
I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.
And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)
Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.
I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.
For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.
Also no, each subsequent crafting character doesn't become easier in the way you're trying to imply. Yes, you can make your own things to break down, but each character has to learn Rune translations, Alchemy reagent effects, and all the Traits individually. It's just as easy to ask friends or guildmates to help you with making things for the extra experience, and if people are making soooooo much gold soooooooo easily, then they'd have an easy time buying cheap trash glyphs/weapons/armor from traders to deconstruct/research. Every character after your first crafter only gets a *bit* easier, but every character after that first takes just as much time as every other one, they don't keep getting subsequently easier.
FlopsyPrince wrote: »Infinite gold? Not quite.
I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!
I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.
And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)
Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.
I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.
For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.
FlopsyPrince wrote: »Infinite gold? Not quite.
I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!
I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.
And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)
Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.
I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.
For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.
It's beyond simple as I do it as a secondary activity while watching TV or listening to lectures and podcasts. Every week I throw away enough intricate items to max out most crafting skill lines on a new character, except for Jewelry.
As for the other person who responded to me, your response was very telling that you're not doing a whole lot of crafting writs.
And not quite sure why either of you are bringing up researching traits when they have nothing at all do to with daily writs. I don't really feel this discussion is going anywhere, so this will be my last post on the matter. Have a nice day.
Nice assumption. I've had a Grand Master Crafter for years and years, she knows a good 90% of the available Motifs and close to 1.5k furnishing Blueprints, dozens and dozens of recipes, and so on. Every year during the Jubilee I do all 7 writs on all my characters (it's been around 14-16 the last few years, this year it'll be a full 18). I regularly have over 1k Writ Vouchers from Master Writs. But please, enlighten me as to how I don't do a lot of writs.FlopsyPrince wrote: »Infinite gold? Not quite.
I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!
I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.
And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)
Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.
I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.
For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.
It's beyond simple as I do it as a secondary activity while watching TV or listening to lectures and podcasts. Every week I throw away enough intricate items to max out most crafting skill lines on a new character, except for Jewelry.
As for the other person who responded to me, your response was very telling that you're not doing a whole lot of crafting writs.
And not quite sure why either of you are bringing up researching traits when they have nothing at all do to with daily writs. I don't really feel this discussion is going anywhere, so this will be my last post on the matter. Have a nice day.