18 character slots is not enough.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

No new character slots.
It seems with the new direction, (AwA, Armory Table, etc), they are dissuading us to play new toons IMO.
No reason as a lot of content will be marked as done after UD33.

FlopsyPrince

starkerealm wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SeanBlader wrote: »

LOL, this thread is funny. Back in my day we had one character slot. If you wanted another you had to pay the monthly fee for a second account, there was no free to play.

The game isnt f2p

So? We can never change anything?

Elsonso wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

There is literally no truly valid reason why the number of character slots in eso should be so comparatively low. Please give us more character slots zos.

Database considerations.

This. The databases used to store character and account data are, by all reports, huge.

haha, I just think of my inventory in second life - over 170,000 items - and I'm not even one of the heavy users - I know quite a couple of people in the 250k and 500k items range - for a single character - database issues are nowadays not a problem.

Database issues are _always_ a problem.

I greatly doubt that is the problem with allowing more. How they architected things may be an issue, but storage is relatively cheap these days, especially in a database.

It's not the storage, it's the access time.

How would the number of characters impact the access time? It shouldn't except for very bad architecture.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??

Playing eso??

starkerealm

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SeanBlader wrote: »

LOL, this thread is funny. Back in my day we had one character slot. If you wanted another you had to pay the monthly fee for a second account, there was no free to play.

The game isnt f2p

So? We can never change anything?

Elsonso wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

There is literally no truly valid reason why the number of character slots in eso should be so comparatively low. Please give us more character slots zos.

Database considerations.

This. The databases used to store character and account data are, by all reports, huge.

haha, I just think of my inventory in second life - over 170,000 items - and I'm not even one of the heavy users - I know quite a couple of people in the 250k and 500k items range - for a single character - database issues are nowadays not a problem.

Database issues are _always_ a problem.

I greatly doubt that is the problem with allowing more. How they architected things may be an issue, but storage is relatively cheap these days, especially in a database.

It's not the storage, it's the access time.

How would the number of characters impact the access time? It shouldn't except for very bad architecture.

I'm talking about for the database as a whole, not your individual account. It's part of why the whole cold storage system is important, because it means they can take accounts out of the active database to reduce search times.

Basically, this is an issue with any data loading function in programming. When you have a few hundred thousand records, it's not a problem, but when you're, literally, looking at tens of millions of records, the query time can start to become a real problem, even with modern hardware.

This is a mistake a lot of end users make when they're looking at databases. They think about their little corner of it, and how much stuff is there, without realizing just how large the entire database is, and that a lot of other users are accessing it at the same time.

Now, I'd guess that 18 is a pretty arbitrary number. There's probably no reason it couldn't be 16, or 20, but this is the number that they've settled on, at least for now. It could also be metric driven. X% of the community has all 18 character slots. Until X>Y, no more slots.

That said, I'm pretty confident that part of the consideration here is related to database search times on login.

FlopsyPrince

starkerealm wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SeanBlader wrote: »

LOL, this thread is funny. Back in my day we had one character slot. If you wanted another you had to pay the monthly fee for a second account, there was no free to play.

The game isnt f2p

So? We can never change anything?

Elsonso wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

There is literally no truly valid reason why the number of character slots in eso should be so comparatively low. Please give us more character slots zos.

Database considerations.

This. The databases used to store character and account data are, by all reports, huge.

haha, I just think of my inventory in second life - over 170,000 items - and I'm not even one of the heavy users - I know quite a couple of people in the 250k and 500k items range - for a single character - database issues are nowadays not a problem.

Database issues are _always_ a problem.

I greatly doubt that is the problem with allowing more. How they architected things may be an issue, but storage is relatively cheap these days, especially in a database.

It's not the storage, it's the access time.

How would the number of characters impact the access time? It shouldn't except for very bad architecture.

I'm talking about for the database as a whole, not your individual account. It's part of why the whole cold storage system is important, because it means they can take accounts out of the active database to reduce search times.

Basically, this is an issue with any data loading function in programming. When you have a few hundred thousand records, it's not a problem, but when you're, literally, looking at tens of millions of records, the query time can start to become a real problem, even with modern hardware.

This is a mistake a lot of end users make when they're looking at databases. They think about their little corner of it, and how much stuff is there, without realizing just how large the entire database is, and that a lot of other users are accessing it at the same time.

Now, I'd guess that 18 is a pretty arbitrary number. There's probably no reason it couldn't be 16, or 20, but this is the number that they've settled on, at least for now. It could also be metric driven. X% of the community has all 18 character slots. Until X>Y, no more slots.

That said, I'm pretty confident that part of the consideration here is related to database search times on login.

At least I understand your point. I would disagree that it is a serious concern however. That argument doesn't fit with what I have seen of database access speeds. Looking up another account for a single player should not take that long (in perspective), even if everyone had max characters, which they do not. A good query should make that minimal if they are using any kind of decent database.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

[Quoted post has been removed.]

You realize there are lots of folks with 3 accounts and 18 toons on each account? Some with more accounts.
This is not that unusual at all.

Sylvermynx

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

You realize there are lots of folks with 3 accounts and 18 toons on each account? Some with more accounts.
This is not that unusual at all.

Yeah. In fact, I don't have as many characters in ESO as I had in WoW (over 70) though a few more than RIFT (60 there): in ESO, I have 68 at this point. All my characters are people who have shown up in my mind insisting I create them. I LOVE alts. Every character is her or his own person, and I exist in the game as that person when I play him or her.

I'm a writer. I've been writing since I was two years old (when the writing was done by my mother as I told her my stories; believe me I was in a HUGE hurry to figure out how to "make letters on paper" myself!) Playing games (either SPMR RPG or MMORPG) is another way to interact with a world and make it my own - through my imagination.

ESO is the latest in a series of games beginning with Stonegate in about 1985. I've played many FCRPGs (and actually started with pencil and paper tabletop D&D in the mid 70s) - games are how I've worked out plots and plans in what I write. And.... they're a SUPERLATIVE form of relaxation.

So. I have lots of alts because they're all different people to me. They have hopes and dreams, limitations and expectations. And they give me a way to enjoy TES in its many variations.

Ishtarknows

etchedpixels wrote: »

There are a bunch of reasons I can think of beyodn performance notablty - the more characters you have the more you can speed grind infinite gold on PC using addons and crafting, and probably more importantly to them the more characters you can create the more free storage you get so you don't have to grind chests/coffers or buy them in the cash shop.

I don't actually think Zenimax care about this. This update added the armoury which replaces extra characters with one character many (cash shop) builds. The next update on the PTS eliminates most per character tracking of achievements and makes having multiple characters kind of meaningless - you can no longer separately track dungeons done on your healer or dps etc, and a lot of the quests break or the dialogue goes insane if you've got multiple toons. Maybe they fix some of that but they tend to ignore bugs and claim we want new content instead.

So the direction from Zenimax appears to be to remove the value of extra toons not improve it.

More free storage...? Theres 1 per account for free, just like there's 1 free crown crate per account no matter how many characters you make

Hvíthákarl

I think we should get both paid and free character slots, like you could earn a character slot after completing the chapter's main campaign and buy another two (1 per alliance), it would be genius. Free stuff usually encourages player to spend more money on a product, after all!

Deanlolz

Infinite gold? Not quite.

I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!

I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.

Chaos2088

Arunei

etchedpixels wrote: »

There are a bunch of reasons I can think of beyodn performance notablty - the more characters you have the more you can speed grind infinite gold on PC using addons and crafting, and probably more importantly to them the more characters you can create the more free storage you get so you don't have to grind chests/coffers or buy them in the cash shop.

I don't actually think Zenimax care about this. This update added the armoury which replaces extra characters with one character many (cash shop) builds. The next update on the PTS eliminates most per character tracking of achievements and makes having multiple characters kind of meaningless - you can no longer separately track dungeons done on your healer or dps etc, and a lot of the quests break or the dialogue goes insane if you've got multiple toons. Maybe they fix some of that but they tend to ignore bugs and claim we want new content instead.

So the direction from Zenimax appears to be to remove the value of extra toons not improve it.

Speed grind infinite gold? You do know what 'infinite' means, right? There's a limit you can get every day, even with 18 characters, that's not anything near infinite. You also say it like everyone playing the game is doing this, when in fact it's been said by the devs that a lot of people playing don't make that many characters. Also, why are people still blaming crafting addons and making them seem like some evil cheat, when ZOS has introduced systems that make crafting writs WITHOUT the use of addons take only a few moments longer? Being able to easily make anything in bulk and having the quest markers to show exactly what you need means even people without crafting addons can do them on a large number of characters fairly quickly, so can we finally stop acting like addons are a magic cheat for lots of gold?

Also, I highly doubt ZOS is bothered by people using alts as mules for inventory, considering the fact that a) most people have ESO+ and b) the game is a complete inventory management nightmare, even with the storage chests that you have to be at a house to access. Also, you don't just randomly get all that extra storage on alts for free, you have to buy the upgrades (which lets not forget you can do with the CS) and you have to train all their Mounts in Stamina to get the extra spades that way, which also costs gold and has a time limit (unless, again, you buy the Mount Training from the CS). Plus hopping from character to character, trying to shuffle things from one to another and remembering who has what, is also a nightmare.

As for wanting people to buy less slots, that makes no sense. You're forgetting all the stuff that's character-bound that isn't touched by the hybridization or AwA. Skyshards, skills lines such as Vamp/WW/Psijic/Fighters/etc, Motifs, Mount training, Trait research, Outfit slots, and so on. All these things that, coincidentally, can be purchased in the CS to get around the grind/timers. And also let's not forget Outfit slots themselves cost the same as a Character slot, but that hasn't prompted people to make fewer characters. They just don't buy the character slots, and since every character has two free Armory slots...yeah, most people aren't going to buy more Armory slots over more character slots. Why buy one when you can technically buy two with a new character for the same price?

BahometZ wrote: »

Absolutely agree. The crown cost for a new armory slot is the same as a totally new character slot. Think on that. Multiply by multiple characters and that's still big money. Combined with hybridisation, Account wide achievement, it feels like they'd prefer us to use a handful of characters. All you need is one class character with armory slots for specific content type, won't even need stam and mag slots, because soon it'll just be damage, heal, tank, pvp. 18 is a nuisance for them, with all of the data storage that entails.

I don't expect them to ever increase character slots again. And I'd wager they've had conversations about reducing character slots. For example limiting it to 12, 2 for each class. So legacy players would still have however many they've bought, but new players won't be able to buy more than the new limit. Recent changes are essentially making that many characters irrelevant to the majority of players. If you would dispute the direction of this game philosophy, and I do, then you would be in the minority. Zenimax have metrics on all player behaviour, and any game design decision they make is based on what the majority of players are doing.

Microsoft has come to town, and it's throwing its weight around. Expect the game to change focus, tighten up, and monetise.

See above for why it doesn't make sense for ZOS to push people into playing fewer characters for monetary gains when there are a bunch of things still character-bound that they'd lose money on if fewer people were buying them. Even if everyone had fewer characters and bought several Armory Slots, that's still a huge loss of profit considering all the other things people might get on characters because they don't want to wait out timers or grind things. A person with 3 characters who gets like 5 Armory Slots might also get the Skyshards and skills lines in those characters, but then not buy anything else since they're small number of characters are set.

Compare that to someone who might get 10 character slots and then spend all the money to get all those characters Skyshards, skill lines, certain CS Motifs, etc. It just doesn't make sense for them to want people to have fewer things to spend money on. Hybridization is just an ongoing hominization that's been happening for a while now, and AwA is being done for ""performance"" and because it's been asked for for so long. And again, buying a character slot is essentially like buying two Armory Slots, since every character gets 2 for free and character slots cost the same as a character token. People ARE always going on about how easy it is to level characters, after all.

The point about decreasing character slots also doesn't really seem logical. It would hardly be fair to new players to have a lesser number of slots than others who've been around. The only things older players might have over newer ones are cosmetic things that aren't available any longer, and that's how it should stay. There shouldn't be anything else in the game that people can't get because they didn't start playing at the "right" time.

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??

Oh, I don't know, playing the game the way they think is fun?

DreamsUnderStars

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??

Playing eso??

lol you can do that with one character... says the RPer who as 4 characters.

My previous comment wasn't an attack, I was honestly curious what people do with 18 characters... I know people on lotro and gw2 who have multiple accounts all filled with characters. So it's not a new "thing" to me.

Arunei

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??

Playing eso??

lol you can do that with one character... says the RPer who as 4 characters.

My previous comment wasn't an attack, I was honestly curious what people do with 18 characters... I know people on lotro and gw2 who have multiple accounts all filled with characters. So it's not a new "thing" to me.

But that's the thing. People with a full roster are playing the game, they just prefer to have different characters that have a different style of play from one another. Some people might be fine with four characters. Other people find it more fun to have more and do different things on them.

And people also like having a different character for each build, like having both a Stamina and Magicka Nightblade for each role, which is six characters right there (Stamblade healer, tank, and DPS, and Magblade healer, tank, and DPS). Despite the Armory being released, plenty of people will more than likely continue to make separate characters for their builds, rather than having one character do it all, because a lot of people will still prefer their characters be separate to continue doing different things from one another and continue being played as individuals.

Edit because I'm an idiot, characters can't be two Classes, it's too early for brain.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Arunei wrote: »

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??

Playing eso??

lol you can do that with one character... says the RPer who as 4 characters.

My previous comment wasn't an attack, I was honestly curious what people do with 18 characters... I know people on lotro and gw2 who have multiple accounts all filled with characters. So it's not a new "thing" to me.

But that's the thing. People with a full roster are playing the game, they just prefer to have different characters that have a different style of play from one another. Some people might be fine with four characters. Other people find it more fun to have more and do different things on them.

And people also like having a different character for each build, like having both a Stamina and Magicka Nightblade for each role, which is six characters right there (Stamblade healer, tank, and DPS, and Magblade healer, tank, and DPS). Despite the Armory being released, plenty of people will more than likely continue to make separate characters for their builds, rather than having one character do it all, because a lot of people will still prefer their characters be separate to continue doing different things from one another and continue being played as individuals.

Edit because I'm an idiot, characters can't be two Classes, it's too early for brain.

Also, some people, like me, have different characters for individuality.
One may be a lawful/good Templar, while another is a assassin / thief. And they all have a backstory and personality.
Just my 2 drakes!
Huzzah!

FlopsyPrince

Deanlolz wrote: »

Infinite gold? Not quite.

I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!

I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.

And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)

Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.

FlopsyPrince

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??

Playing eso??

lol you can do that with one character... says the RPer who as 4 characters.

My previous comment wasn't an attack, I was honestly curious what people do with 18 characters... I know people on lotro and gw2 who have multiple accounts all filled with characters. So it's not a new "thing" to me.

Play different builds. Some of this would not be needed with the new armory, but that doesn't change the race, so it is limited. Someone noted here (I think) that 2 for each class (stam and magicka) took up a lot of slots by itself. Add a vampire and a werewolf (or variants of each) and you easily suck up spots.

It has the benefit of making significant crafting gold after a lot of time spent, but that takes a LOT of effort to get all the skillpoints, etc.

A decent choice if you want, but still a significant level of effort to get setup. (Easier if you spent lots of Crowns most likely, but I refuse to buy skyshards for Crowns.)

Deanlolz

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Deanlolz wrote: »

Infinite gold? Not quite.

I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!

I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.

And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)

Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.

I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.

For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.

FlopsyPrince

Deanlolz wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Deanlolz wrote: »

Infinite gold? Not quite.

I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!

I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.

And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)

Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.

I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.

For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.

I would disagree. It was very misleading. Yes, it would be a lot of money to many. But it is also a LOT more work to setup than is implied. You don't just create the characters and roll in that money.

It would be like saying "farming rare motifs" can make infinite money. You could definitely make a lot of money but it would not be simple. It is also not simple doing lots of daily writs.

Xarc

18 is enough.

xhaven

Xarc wrote: »

18 is enough.

Nope.
We need more character slots please.

I know it wont happen unfortunately because people buying new accounts for slots will make Zenimax more money than selling individual slots.

Arunei

Deanlolz wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Deanlolz wrote: »

Infinite gold? Not quite.

I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!

I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.

And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)

Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.

I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.

For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.

Nope, shouldn't call it an infinite gold grind when what you can get is limited to nowhere near an infinite amount. May as well be infinite doesn't come close either, because a) it's NOT the average player doing this on 18 characters, so that's a moot point, and b) someone going through effort of doing all the writs every day on 18 characters will be doing it because there are things they want to buy. They aren't getting a bunch of gold to never spend. And if you really want to go this "infinite" router then you could argue everyone who makes gold technically is making infinite gold, as it's being earned continuously during the course of playing the game.

Also no, each subsequent crafting character doesn't become easier in the way you're trying to imply. Yes, you can make your own things to break down, but each character has to learn Rune translations, Alchemy reagent effects, and all the Traits individually. It's just as easy to ask friends or guildmates to help you with making things for the extra experience, and if people are making soooooo much gold soooooooo easily, then they'd have an easy time buying cheap trash glyphs/weapons/armor from traders to deconstruct/research. Every character after your first crafter only gets a *bit* easier, but every character after that first takes just as much time as every other one, they don't keep getting subsequently easier.

Arunei

xhaven wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

18 is enough.

Nope.
We need more character slots please.

I know it wont happen unfortunately because people buying new accounts for slots will make Zenimax more money than selling individual slots.

Not necessarily, people can get ESO accounts for relatively cheap, if you go base game. Plus it goes on sale fairly often. The base game seems to be about 20 bucks from what I've seen checking around, and 1.5k Crowns costs a little over 16 USD after tax. The huge downside to buying a new account is none of your Collections aside from pre-order bonuses and a few other things carry over, so even people with maxed character slots might not bother with a second account (I'm in this camp, I've considered getting a second account but I'd be "losing" too much since I'd have no access to my Dyes, all my Mounts/Pets/Costumes/etc, and so on).

Sylvermynx

Arunei wrote: »

Not necessarily, people can get ESO accounts for relatively cheap, if you go base game. Plus it goes on sale fairly often. The base game seems to be about 20 bucks from what I've seen checking around, and 1.5k Crowns costs a little over 16 USD after tax. The huge downside to buying a new account is none of your Collections aside from pre-order bonuses and a few other things carry over, so even people with maxed character slots might not bother with a second account (I'm in this camp, I've considered getting a second account but I'd be "losing" too much since I'd have no access to my Dyes, all my Mounts/Pets/Costumes/etc, and so on).

I actually really enjoyed getting my second account (both PC NA and EU) set up with some of the cosmetics and so on, just as I enjoyed (mostly) starting over. I did a trade for gold with a guy on EU, giving him the same amount on NA for his new setup there, so that made things much easier starting over (though I never spend gold for stuff from the store).

I have long been considering a third account, semi-retiring some of the characters from the first two. Still thinking I might do that one of these days.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

xhaven wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

18 is enough.

Nope.
We need more character slots please.

I know it wont happen unfortunately because people buying new accounts for slots will make Zenimax more money than selling individual slots.

New account are free on console as you only need a new email

FlopsyPrince

Arunei wrote: »

Deanlolz wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Deanlolz wrote: »

Infinite gold? Not quite.

I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!

I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.

And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)

Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.

I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.

For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.

Nope, shouldn't call it an infinite gold grind when what you can get is limited to nowhere near an infinite amount. May as well be infinite doesn't come close either, because a) it's NOT the average player doing this on 18 characters, so that's a moot point, and b) someone going through effort of doing all the writs every day on 18 characters will be doing it because there are things they want to buy. They aren't getting a bunch of gold to never spend. And if you really want to go this "infinite" router then you could argue everyone who makes gold technically is making infinite gold, as it's being earned continuously during the course of playing the game.

Also no, each subsequent crafting character doesn't become easier in the way you're trying to imply. Yes, you can make your own things to break down, but each character has to learn Rune translations, Alchemy reagent effects, and all the Traits individually. It's just as easy to ask friends or guildmates to help you with making things for the extra experience, and if people are making soooooo much gold soooooooo easily, then they'd have an easy time buying cheap trash glyphs/weapons/armor from traders to deconstruct/research. Every character after your first crafter only gets a *bit* easier, but every character after that first takes just as much time as every other one, they don't keep getting subsequently easier.

I agree completely. The research grind is a huge pain that is sometimes overlooked. Yeah, my "main" can craft most things to allow for that, but I have to swap characters to do that, etc. An addon with "/research export" helps with that, but it takes a bit of character swapping and significant bank space! It was even worse on the PS4, where I had to literally write down (normally in Notepad on a nearby computer) things to make for alt research purposes.

It is a significant time sink and while I was finally making decent gold on the PS4, I often skipped daily crafting (and using the gold for things I wanted) because it took so much effort.

And I hadn't even been using "The Golden" in the PvP area on weekends while on the PS4. That is a huge gold sink that keeps me quite poor on the PC so far - and I buy very little there.

Yes, I like that my altoholic tendencies provide this path to make gold, but it becomes a big grind at times because I would rather be exploring the world or even repeating quest lines rather than grinding crafting dailies. It is very easy to miss some because I waited too late for those and end up rushing before the day resets.

Deanlolz

Deanlolz wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Deanlolz wrote: »

Infinite gold? Not quite.

I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!

I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.

And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)

Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.

I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.

For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.

It's beyond simple as I do it as a secondary activity while watching TV or listening to lectures and podcasts. Every week I throw away enough intricate items to max out most crafting skill lines on a new character, except for Jewelry.

As for the other person who responded to me, your response was very telling that you're not doing a whole lot of crafting writs.

And not quite sure why either of you are bringing up researching traits when they have nothing at all do to with daily writs. I don't really feel this discussion is going anywhere, so this will be my last post on the matter. Have a nice day.

deejayvee

Xarc wrote: »

18 is enough.

It might be for you, but if you bother reading this thread then it is clear that it is not enough for everyone.

FlopsyPrince

Deanlolz wrote: »

Deanlolz wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Deanlolz wrote: »

Infinite gold? Not quite.

I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!

I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.

And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)

Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.

I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.

For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.

It's beyond simple as I do it as a secondary activity while watching TV or listening to lectures and podcasts. Every week I throw away enough intricate items to max out most crafting skill lines on a new character, except for Jewelry.

As for the other person who responded to me, your response was very telling that you're not doing a whole lot of crafting writs.

And not quite sure why either of you are bringing up researching traits when they have nothing at all do to with daily writs. I don't really feel this discussion is going anywhere, so this will be my last post on the matter. Have a nice day.

I believe knowing traits helps out. Eventually I will be able to craft anything on anyone, but that is a LONG ways out.

Funny hearing you tell me I am not doing a lot of crafting writs. You clearly do not know my playtime.

Most times I play the game I want to play the game. I enjoy repeating the same quest lines over and over (yeah, I am odd at that) but I cannot do so if I am crafting dailies. I don't watch many TV shows and subbed anime is quite difficult to watch while playing at all.

You are just one kind of player, not the sum of those who do this. It also either took you a lot of work to get your "stable" of characters to their current level or you are just doing low-level crafting which does not return as much gold.

Arunei

Deanlolz wrote: »

Deanlolz wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Deanlolz wrote: »

Infinite gold? Not quite.

I had 2 mil gold, significantly from crafting, on the PS4 (EU and NA each) before I quit for the PC. The addons make it easier, but you can make gold on any platform with crafting dailies. It does get tedious after a while, even with addons however!

I only (lol) do writs on 8-10 characters and easily make more than 2 mil per week. Someone who has the time and the willpower to do 18+ will be making significantly more than that, which was the point of the person you were replying to.

And I was noting that it was incorrect. It is not "infinite" since I had yet to build up max gold on the PS4 (before I switched to the PC) and still had many things I needed/wanted (recipes/motifs/etc.)

Calling it "infinite" grossly simplifies it and ignores the level of effort to get to that point. I do not get "infinite" gold on any platform even with significant playtime, so this is a false canard.

I think you might be the only person to take "infinite" as a literal descriptor when it was a hyperbolic phrasing of a generally accurate statement.

For the average player, raking in hundreds of millions in gold per year may as well be "infinite." Also, while it does take some effort to make one max level crafter, each subsequent crafter becomes even easier to make than the one before it, which is another point in favor of the person you were responding to.

It's beyond simple as I do it as a secondary activity while watching TV or listening to lectures and podcasts. Every week I throw away enough intricate items to max out most crafting skill lines on a new character, except for Jewelry.

As for the other person who responded to me, your response was very telling that you're not doing a whole lot of crafting writs.

And not quite sure why either of you are bringing up researching traits when they have nothing at all do to with daily writs. I don't really feel this discussion is going anywhere, so this will be my last post on the matter. Have a nice day.

Nice assumption. I've had a Grand Master Crafter for years and years, she knows a good 90% of the available Motifs and close to 1.5k furnishing Blueprints, dozens and dozens of recipes, and so on. Every year during the Jubilee I do all 7 writs on all my characters (it's been around 14-16 the last few years, this year it'll be a full 18). I regularly have over 1k Writ Vouchers from Master Writs. But please, enlighten me as to how I don't do a lot of writs.

You also won't get that much Intricate gear to fully level a new character just from one week of doing writs, even on numerous characters. You don't get that many pieces of Intricate gear from writ rewards. You definitely don't get enough Glyphs to decon to get anywhere near leveled after a week, nor do you get anything to level Provisioning or Alchemy since aside from Inspiration from writs themselves, the only way to level those two lines is to make Food/Drink and Potions/Poisons.

As for bringing up Traits, it's because you implied getting new crafting characters in general is easy, and that includes learning Traits. You never specified leveling new characters for the simple sake of doing writs.

And you're also conveniently ignoring the fact that the average player doesn't have 8-10 characters and aren't doing max writs on all of them daily. Even people who do have 10+ aren't on average going to be doing that many writs on all their characters every day. I have 18 and only two of them are crafters I regularly do anything on. Those of us who want more characters don't want them to try and grind ""infinite"" gold, we want them for various other reasons. Trying to claim ZOS can't or won't give us more slots just because a smaller number of people would do max writs on them isn't much of an argument to make when that's not happening with the number of slots we have now.