18 character slots is not enough.

Sylvermynx

Eh.... "voice of reason" here maybe.

I've done daily writ crafting on every alt for maybe the best part of a year on each account PC NA and EU. I did that, as boring and plebeian as it is, so that I have enough gold to do whatever I want to do in this game (mostly buy houses).

It's BORING. Yes, it's not difficult - and yes, I have addons that make it easier. But it's still BORING. Then again, when I look at the gold I have after doing boring stuff on both PC servers, both accounts - compared to WoW and RIFT where gold was hard come by on new accounts....

I'll take that boring. Because now that I have a backlog of gold, I DO NOT HAVE TO CRAFT on more than my 50s and the next ones to get to 50 (38s waiting for Jubilee....)

I love having a "slush fund". It's.... like.... the RL endgame of paying off my mortgage. Yep. Did that. Love it. I also love having that gold in the bank. I spent YEARS in the other MMOs getting gold....

Y'know what? I left behind MILLIONS in gold in both those games. And when this game is either no longer fun, or the devs pull the plug.... I'll leave behind all that gold as well as the fun cosmetics - mounts, pets, costumes.... The sad thing is that I'm thinking this game is not long for the world for me - the stuff that's happening is.... more like the end of that world. With no TES VI in sight.

*SIGH*

BahometZ

For those arguing that more toons means more money, because skyshards, skill lines and horse training can be sold to each character, consider that this game has been around for 7 years. That's a long time with the game going through massive shifts and phases that have changed the way people approach the game. Consider we are going through one of those seismic shifts. It may be that previously we were encouraged, or at least not discouraged, from making as many characters as physically possible. In that time many players have maxed out 18 characters, and some have multiple accounts. Perhaps that well has run dry in Zenimax's studied view, and the number of players who have put money into 18 toons has peaked. (I for one have maxed out horse training on all 18 toons, and have all the skill lines on all the toons that I need them on.) Also think how many people dove into this game on the back of previous elder scrolls games, and where new players are coming from. The Skyrim bump is no longer relevant. The people who would be deeply invested have already done so.

Consider that these current changes (account wide achievements, armory, stickerbook, hybridisation) are disincentives to replay and explore the game on a panoply of toons, and perhaps we are entering a new phase that does not emphasise the full use of all 18 characters. New players coming to this increasingly expansive and activity-laden world will probably prefer to focus on a handful of characters, with one main character and others designed to focus on different aspects. Just think how much there is to do nowadays compared to just 3 years ago, and it would be so much more manageable to just do it on a couple of characters, knowing that it all counts. Especially if this game wants to compete in a new environment of gaming, ESO is an unwieldy behemoth for a new player to approach.

There are other things that can be monetised moving forward. Zenimax surely have the metrics that show how player behaviour changes. Either they have made these changes with that in mind and have a plan, or they aren't sure and this may backfire spectacularly. I would hope a company of Zenimax's status would fall under the former.

Arunei

BahometZ wrote: »

For those arguing that more toons means more money, because skyshards, skill lines and horse training can be sold to each character, consider that this game has been around for 7 years. That's a long time with the game going through massive shifts and phases that have changed the way people approach the game. Consider we are going through one of those seismic shifts. It may be that previously we were encouraged, or at least not discouraged, from making as many characters as physically possible. In that time many players have maxed out 18 characters, and some have multiple accounts. Perhaps that well has run dry in Zenimax's studied view, and the number of players who have put money into 18 toons has peaked. (I for one have maxed out horse training on all 18 toons, and have all the skill lines on all the toons that I need them on.) Also think how many people dove into this game on the back of previous elder scrolls games, and where new players are coming from. The Skyrim bump is no longer relevant. The people who would be deeply invested have already done so.

Consider that these current changes (account wide achievements, armory, stickerbook, hybridisation) are disincentives to replay and explore the game on a panoply of toons, and perhaps we are entering a new phase that does not emphasise the full use of all 18 characters. New players coming to this increasingly expansive and activity-laden world will probably prefer to focus on a handful of characters, with one main character and others designed to focus on different aspects. Just think how much there is to do nowadays compared to just 3 years ago, and it would be so much more manageable to just do it on a couple of characters, knowing that it all counts. Especially if this game wants to compete in a new environment of gaming, ESO is an unwieldy behemoth for a new player to approach.

There are other things that can be monetised moving forward. Zenimax surely have the metrics that show how player behaviour changes. Either they have made these changes with that in mind and have a plan, or they aren't sure and this may backfire spectacularly. I would hope a company of Zenimax's status would fall under the former.

The reasons you list aren't meant to discourage playing numerous characters, people being discouraged is a result of how ZOS is implementing these things (namely AwA). This is a matter of correlation doesn't equal causation.

AwA: Many people posting in the PTS thread for feedback about AwA have made it clear they consider all their characters as individuals who they play separately and enjoy independently of one another. AwA has been asked for for years not because people don't like playing alts, it's because they have a main that they want to have achieves on and felt that getting those achieves on other characters was a wasted effort. That DOESN'T mean they didn't enjoy playing their alts; indeed a lot of them wanted to, but wanted their main to be able to have credit for that effort. Thus AwA isn't meant to discourage people from playing alts, it's to ENCOURAGE it because now people won't have to worry about the wrong character getting an achieve. Of course, the way ZOS is implementing it is causing a lot of people distress because it's a heavyhanded way of doing it that ruins their way of playing, but that's not a discussion for here.

Armory: The Armory wasn't meant to encourage people to have fewer characters, though that could be an outcome of it. It was meant to make swapping between builds faster and easier. People with numerous characters might have an array of builds, especially one for PvE and one for PvP. Every character gets two free slots too, so you don't need to buy any slots to start making use of it. That said, just because Character A can have a build as a healer and one as a DPS doesn't mean the player won't have other characters with DPS or healer builds. People forget there are different races and different Classes that don't necessarily play the same. Someone with a Nord NB tank build for one character could also have an Imperial Warden Tank for another. The Armory isn't meant to encourage fewer characters, just to make swapping between each character's possible builds easier.

Stickerbook: This was introduced as a means of helping with inventory management issues, since ZOS refuses to increase bank/character inventory. The stickerbook actually encourages playing numerous characters since it means you don't have to farm multiple pieces of the same set if multiple characters require it for a build (or mess around with moving a single set between several characters).

Curated drops: You didn't mention this but it kind of goes with the stickerbook. This wasn't introduced to encourage fewer characters, it was introduced because of the massive grind in general it was to get certain pieces of gear, even for one character. I wanted Pillar of Nirn Weapons and Jewels, and even after curated drops were introduced it took me several weeks of running to get Nirn Swords because I was getting literally EVERY other Weapon and Jewelry drop from the other sets. By the time I finally got Swords, I only needed a few more Pillar Weapons, as I'd gotten all of the Weapons and Jewels for the other sets. That said, the pointed of curated drops is to make it easier to get stuff you haven't yet, and combined with the stickerbook can help get numerous characters outfitted faster.

Hybridization: And finally, this isn't meant to try and encourage fewer characters, it's just part of homogenization that's been on-going for a while. It's to make more builds accessible to more characters, making it so you can take morphs or skills or use sets you wouldn't have really been able to before depending on whether you were Mag or Stam. Opening up options doesn't necessarily encourage playing fewer characters, it just means there are new things you can try on different characters (and kind of works with the Armory since you can make a few different builds and then swap between them to test them out).

wolfie1.0.

If zos's database can't handle achievements in live they are not going to handle new character slots.

At this point, I am pretty sure that the only thing that is preventing ZOS from removing character slots is that they havn't figured out how to implement a working class change system. Once they do that they will likely start removing character slots from our accounts.

Arunei

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

If zos's database can't handle achievements in live they are not going to handle new character slots.

At this point, I am pretty sure that the only thing that is preventing ZOS from removing character slots is that they havn't figured out how to implement a working class change system. Once they do that they will likely start removing character slots from our accounts.

No, they won't. Not unless they want to reimburse people for the cost of every character after the 8th, refunding everything that may have been purchased for any given characters from the CS store (things like Armory or Outfit slots, the character slots themselves, Skyshards or Skill lines, character edit/race change/Alliance change tokens, etc), compensating them for the time spent on things like Motifs, Mount training, research for crafting, and so on. I'm not sure where the idea is coming from that they'd remove literal *characters* from our accounts, as that would be a HUGE undertaking, they would have to check the purchase history of every player and then sort through all of it to determine what was character-bound and what was account-wide. And that's assuming these records are kept permanently somewhere and not deleted after so many years.

You think it's bad now how upset people are losing the ability to play their characters as individuals with AwA coming like it is? People would quit the game en masse if ZOS started to delete actual characters. And if ZOS didn't compensate people for time and Crowns spent on specific characters that got deleted? This is a scenario that would certainly kill the game.

Edit to add even if you mean removing empty character slots and cutting down the number people can have, they still wouldn't do that. Making new people have fewer characters than players who've been around longer isn't a solution, mostly because it's not equal or fair in any sense or capacity. The only thing newer players can't get now that older ones have are Collectibles that are no longer available, cosmetic things like Mounts or Pets. Telling a new player they can only have 8 when other people have 18 is, bluntly, bullcrap, and no one should be restricted to fewer characters just because they didn't start playing at the "right" time.

Sylvermynx

Arunei wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

If zos's database can't handle achievements in live they are not going to handle new character slots.

At this point, I am pretty sure that the only thing that is preventing ZOS from removing character slots is that they havn't figured out how to implement a working class change system. Once they do that they will likely start removing character slots from our accounts.

No, they won't. Not unless they want to reimburse people for the cost of every character after the 8th, refunding everything that may have been purchased for any given characters from the CS store (things like Armory or Outfit slots, the character slots themselves, Skyshards or Skill lines, character edit/race change/Alliance change tokens, etc), compensating them for the time spent on things like Motifs, Mount training, research for crafting, and so on. I'm not sure where the idea is coming from that they'd remove literal *characters* from our accounts, as that would be a HUGE undertaking, they would have to check the purchase history of every player and then sort through all of it to determine what was character-bound and what was account-wide. And that's assuming these records are kept permanently somewhere and not deleted after so many years.

You think it's bad now how upset people are losing the ability to play there characters as individuals with AwA coming like it is? People would quit the game en masse if ZOS started to delete actual characters. And if ZOS didn't compensation people for time and Crowns spent on specific characters? This is a scenario that would certainly kill the game.

Yeah, I'm not upset at AWA personally, but don't EVEN THINK ABOUT removing any of my characters....

newtinmpls

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what are you doing with 18 characters??

I come to ESO from pen and paper role-playing, so I am used to exploring a persona that is unique to any one of my characters. Then when I started ESO and exploring the world, characters grew out of that exploration.

First character was a Dunmer (cause Morrowind) Sorc ('cause pets) female ('cause my sweetie was playing a male and we planned to "ring o Mara").

After going "back" into Cold Harbor to rescue Lyris with my very first character, I thought about what that would be like - how hard it might be to face the realm of despair more than once. That was sort of the genesis of my Orsimer Sorc, Mol gro Durga (created at the same time my partner created Fianna Kingsley, bosmer Templer) and our head-cannon is that they met in Cold Harbor when he went back to rescue Lyris, and also to rescue his former Second, Alvard Stower (yes, family name stolen from the Banker). In my head cannon he never truly recovered, and at some point I will obtain a "soul shriven" from the crown store to represent him in one of my houses.

Likely the one belonging to Valentine Stower, his sister, who was discouraged from joining the war, despite the fact that she was more emotionally suited to it than her brother. Breton Templar (usually healer, but she has a ferocious side to her as well).

Mol plays as a battlemage, and though I suck at PvP he is ... the least sucky of them all.

Eventually I rolled up one of his sisters (and you guessed it, my spouse rolled up the other - you can see pics of them in the "hottie orsimer" thread).

All of my characters start as ideas or inspiration about a person, or a character, never as a stat or a class or anything like that.

ElvenOverlord

We should get one free character slot as an apology for the asinine update changes to achievements coming in a couple weeks.

shadyjane62

I had 18 chars, I killed 15 of them off. As for titles, my Master Angler title is now worthless.

I am half a bar from Palatine in Pvp but I put First Sergeant as my title.

I do not want account wide titles. I did want account wide motifs.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

We should get one free character slot as an apology for the asinine update changes to achievements coming in a couple weeks.

And that free character can start their new adventures as the Hero of Coldharbour, Savior of Tamriel and Daedra Killer at Lv1.
Sad...

Tandor

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

DaveMoeDee

Arunei wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

For those arguing that more toons means more money, because skyshards, skill lines and horse training can be sold to each character, consider that this game has been around for 7 years. That's a long time with the game going through massive shifts and phases that have changed the way people approach the game. Consider we are going through one of those seismic shifts. It may be that previously we were encouraged, or at least not discouraged, from making as many characters as physically possible. In that time many players have maxed out 18 characters, and some have multiple accounts. Perhaps that well has run dry in Zenimax's studied view, and the number of players who have put money into 18 toons has peaked. (I for one have maxed out horse training on all 18 toons, and have all the skill lines on all the toons that I need them on.) Also think how many people dove into this game on the back of previous elder scrolls games, and where new players are coming from. The Skyrim bump is no longer relevant. The people who would be deeply invested have already done so.

Consider that these current changes (account wide achievements, armory, stickerbook, hybridisation) are disincentives to replay and explore the game on a panoply of toons, and perhaps we are entering a new phase that does not emphasise the full use of all 18 characters. New players coming to this increasingly expansive and activity-laden world will probably prefer to focus on a handful of characters, with one main character and others designed to focus on different aspects. Just think how much there is to do nowadays compared to just 3 years ago, and it would be so much more manageable to just do it on a couple of characters, knowing that it all counts. Especially if this game wants to compete in a new environment of gaming, ESO is an unwieldy behemoth for a new player to approach.

There are other things that can be monetised moving forward. Zenimax surely have the metrics that show how player behaviour changes. Either they have made these changes with that in mind and have a plan, or they aren't sure and this may backfire spectacularly. I would hope a company of Zenimax's status would fall under the former.

The reasons you list aren't meant to discourage playing numerous characters, people being discouraged is a result of how ZOS is implementing these things (namely AwA). This is a matter of correlation doesn't equal causation.

AwA: Many people posting in the PTS thread for feedback about AwA have made it clear they consider all their characters as individuals who they play separately and enjoy independently of one another. AwA has been asked for for years not because people don't like playing alts, it's because they have a main that they want to have achieves on and felt that getting those achieves on other characters was a wasted effort. That DOESN'T mean they didn't enjoy playing their alts; indeed a lot of them wanted to, but wanted their main to be able to have credit for that effort. Thus AwA isn't meant to discourage people from playing alts, it's to ENCOURAGE it because now people won't have to worry about the wrong character getting an achieve. Of course, the way ZOS is implementing it is causing a lot of people distress because it's a heavyhanded way of doing it that ruins their way of playing, but that's not a discussion for here.

Armory: The Armory wasn't meant to encourage people to have fewer characters, though that could be an outcome of it. It was meant to make swapping between builds faster and easier. People with numerous characters might have an array of builds, especially one for PvE and one for PvP. Every character gets two free slots too, so you don't need to buy any slots to start making use of it. That said, just because Character A can have a build as a healer and one as a DPS doesn't mean the player won't have other characters with DPS or healer builds. People forget there are different races and different Classes that don't necessarily play the same. Someone with a Nord NB tank build for one character could also have an Imperial Warden Tank for another. The Armory isn't meant to encourage fewer characters, just to make swapping between each character's possible builds easier.

Stickerbook: This was introduced as a means of helping with inventory management issues, since ZOS refuses to increase bank/character inventory. The stickerbook actually encourages playing numerous characters since it means you don't have to farm multiple pieces of the same set if multiple characters require it for a build (or mess around with moving a single set between several characters).

Curated drops: You didn't mention this but it kind of goes with the stickerbook. This wasn't introduced to encourage fewer characters, it was introduced because of the massive grind in general it was to get certain pieces of gear, even for one character. I wanted Pillar of Nirn Weapons and Jewels, and even after curated drops were introduced it took me several weeks of running to get Nirn Swords because I was getting literally EVERY other Weapon and Jewelry drop from the other sets. By the time I finally got Swords, I only needed a few more Pillar Weapons, as I'd gotten all of the Weapons and Jewels for the other sets. That said, the pointed of curated drops is to make it easier to get stuff you haven't yet, and combined with the stickerbook can help get numerous characters outfitted faster.

Hybridization: And finally, this isn't meant to try and encourage fewer characters, it's just part of homogenization that's been on-going for a while. It's to make more builds accessible to more characters, making it so you can take morphs or skills or use sets you wouldn't have really been able to before depending on whether you were Mag or Stam. Opening up options doesn't necessarily encourage playing fewer characters, it just means there are new things you can try on different characters (and kind of works with the Armory since you can make a few different builds and then swap between them to test them out).

At this point, I'm all for hybridization and homogenization. While I like the uniqueness of each class, I am tired of people complaining about balance. I am even more tired of rebalancing. If making things more generic leads to less future changes, sign me up.

As far as multiple alts go, with the cost of gearing up, I would prefer to just have 1 of each class for playing and have my other 12 just for Jubilee grinding of crafting writs.

FlopsyPrince

Tandor wrote: »

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

You only play one alliance and race?

Sylvermynx

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

You only play one alliance and race?

[snip]

No, he plays various character of various races, in the three factions. But he sees this change as impacting his personal ability to enjoy alts as different people all of whom do NOT exist in a vacuum.

It's not a problem for me, but you need to try to understand that it IS a HUGE PROBLEM for a lot of people who play this game. So in Tandor's situation, he's going to limit himself to one character on his third account in order to NOT have all the crap that ZOS is promulgating for AWA affect his other accounts - so perhaps some day, this might get "fixed" so he can play his other characters the way he prefers.

[snip]

[Edit for minor bait.]

starkerealm

shadyjane62 wrote: »

I had 18 chars, I killed 15 of them off. As for titles, my Master Angler title is now worthless.

How do you figure? I mean, it still takes the same amount of work as it always did. You just don't need to repeat it on multiple characters. (And, yeah, I know there was that guy who earned it on all 18 character slots, but that's the extreme outlier.)

shadyjane62 wrote: »

I am half a bar from Palatine in Pvp but I put First Sergeant as my title.

I do not want account wide titles. I did want account wide motifs.

I still want account wide motifs, recipes, and furnishing plans.

LoneStar2911

I want at least 3 of each class. Oh, wait. That’s 18.

I want at least 1 of each race for each class. That’s only 60, if you include imperials. 10 races x 6 classes.

Seems reasonable to me!

FlopsyPrince

Tandor wrote: »

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

You only play one alliance and race?

Sylvermynx wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

You only play one alliance and race?

[snip]

No, he plays various character of various races, in the three factions. But he sees this change as impacting his personal ability to enjoy alts as different people all of whom do NOT exist in a vacuum.

It's not a problem for me, but you need to try to understand that it IS a HUGE PROBLEM for a lot of people who play this game. So in Tandor's situation, he's going to limit himself to one character on his third account in order to NOT have all the crap that ZOS is promulgating for AWA affect his other accounts - so perhaps some day, this might get "fixed" so he can play his other characters the way he prefers.

[snip]

[Edit for minor bait.]

I was just trying to understand what he was saying. I can see why some dislike AWA, but the point that only a single character was needed now didn't seem accurate at all. That is why I asked.

On the AWA issue: I see that as a boon for me, an altoholic, so I can play the character I want, not the one that needs to the achievement. Hopefully I can stop to fish at times on whatever character I am on, for example, without caring that all of them will not get "Master Angler" by themselves.

I do see that many care deeply about this, but I am not convinced it is most of the player base.

FlopsyPrince

starkerealm wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

I had 18 chars, I killed 15 of them off. As for titles, my Master Angler title is now worthless.

How do you figure? I mean, it still takes the same amount of work as it always did. You just don't need to repeat it on multiple characters. (And, yeah, I know there was that guy who earned it on all 18 character slots, but that's the extreme outlier.)

I wondered about why this was valid as well. Why delete all the characters. Too bad I can't just have them to use!

shadyjane62 wrote: »

I am half a bar from Palatine in Pvp but I put First Sergeant as my title.

I do not want account wide titles. I did want account wide motifs.

I still want account wide motifs, recipes, and furnishing plans.

I would agree with this. I grind am slowly learning them on all alts, after my main (on the server) learns it, but that would be worthwhile.

Give a way to translate other motifs and recipes to something useful rather than letting them just become vendor trash as well.

(Part of this would be allowing ALL recipes to be gained at max provisioning, not just a very limited set, for example.)

Dark_Lord_Kuro

I personnaly want 4 of each class. A mag and a stam dps, a tank and a healer so 24 but i would be happy with just one or two for now

Sylvermynx

It's not most of the player base. Yet.

I expect the - um, can't post that here - to hit the fan very shortly after U33 lands. Of course, since most people who play don't likely have forum accounts (and probably have no idea how to GET a forum account).... the most logical outcome is they groan and moan to the people they know, and then they leave the game.

Once the fallout occurs, and the money dries up.... well, it'll be interesting.

Again, I don't care one way or the other - I have NO use for the whole achievement silliness, and it's not going to affect how I play the game. What WILL affect how I play the game is if the money dries up in a huge way, and there's no game to play thereafter.

FlopsyPrince

Sylvermynx wrote: »

It's not most of the player base. Yet.

I expect the - um, can't post that here - to hit the fan very shortly after U33 lands. Of course, since most people who play don't likely have forum accounts (and probably have no idea how to GET a forum account).... the most logical outcome is they groan and moan to the people they know, and then they leave the game.

Once the fallout occurs, and the money dries up.... well, it'll be interesting.

Again, I don't care one way or the other - I have NO use for the whole achievement silliness, and it's not going to affect how I play the game. What WILL affect how I play the game is if the money dries up in a huge way, and there's no game to play thereafter.

Your latter statement is most likely accurate for most players. They may think "cool, another achievement" but many just play to have fun, not to earn achievements.

I can't see most players quitting over the issue (which is past the 18 character issue in this thread), but we shall see as you note.

Agenericname

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

You only play one alliance and race?

Sylvermynx wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

You only play one alliance and race?

[snip]

No, he plays various character of various races, in the three factions. But he sees this change as impacting his personal ability to enjoy alts as different people all of whom do NOT exist in a vacuum.

It's not a problem for me, but you need to try to understand that it IS a HUGE PROBLEM for a lot of people who play this game. So in Tandor's situation, he's going to limit himself to one character on his third account in order to NOT have all the crap that ZOS is promulgating for AWA affect his other accounts - so perhaps some day, this might get "fixed" so he can play his other characters the way he prefers.

[snip]

[Edit for minor bait.]

I was just trying to understand what he was saying. I can see why some dislike AWA, but the point that only a single character was needed now didn't seem accurate at all. That is why I asked.

On the AWA issue: I see that as a boon for me, an altoholic, so I can play the character I want, not the one that needs to the achievement. Hopefully I can stop to fish at times on whatever character I am on, for example, without caring that all of them will not get "Master Angler" by themselves.

I do see that many care deeply about this, but I am not convinced it is most of the player base.

If you played your characters in such a manner as they all had their own identity and their own story, then after the patch, some of that identity will be taken away. For better or worse, achievements are the journel of our characters journey through Tamriel.

I sympathize, I am one of them. If all of their identities are the same, why do I need them? I have 5 characters safe from deletion, but I fall pretty firmly in the "wait and see" category. Admittedly I havent participated this PTS cycle as I have in the past, though I have been watching the feedback.

Its been over 4 years and the highest character count that Ive had was 13 of the possible 18. I doubt that Ill ever see 18 to be honest.

FlopsyPrince

Agenericname wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

You only play one alliance and race?

Sylvermynx wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

You only play one alliance and race?

[snip]

No, he plays various character of various races, in the three factions. But he sees this change as impacting his personal ability to enjoy alts as different people all of whom do NOT exist in a vacuum.

It's not a problem for me, but you need to try to understand that it IS a HUGE PROBLEM for a lot of people who play this game. So in Tandor's situation, he's going to limit himself to one character on his third account in order to NOT have all the crap that ZOS is promulgating for AWA affect his other accounts - so perhaps some day, this might get "fixed" so he can play his other characters the way he prefers.

[snip]

[Edit for minor bait.]

I was just trying to understand what he was saying. I can see why some dislike AWA, but the point that only a single character was needed now didn't seem accurate at all. That is why I asked.

On the AWA issue: I see that as a boon for me, an altoholic, so I can play the character I want, not the one that needs to the achievement. Hopefully I can stop to fish at times on whatever character I am on, for example, without caring that all of them will not get "Master Angler" by themselves.

I do see that many care deeply about this, but I am not convinced it is most of the player base.

If you played your characters in such a manner as they all had their own identity and their own story, then after the patch, some of that identity will be taken away. For better or worse, achievements are the journel of our characters journey through Tamriel.

I sympathize, I am one of them. If all of their identities are the same, why do I need them? I have 5 characters safe from deletion, but I fall pretty firmly in the "wait and see" category. Admittedly I havent participated this PTS cycle as I have in the past, though I have been watching the feedback.

Its been over 4 years and the highest character count that Ive had was 13 of the possible 18. I doubt that Ill ever see 18 to be honest.

You would still not cover all the races with a single character, hence my question.

Agenericname

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

You only play one alliance and race?

Sylvermynx wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

You only play one alliance and race?

[snip]

No, he plays various character of various races, in the three factions. But he sees this change as impacting his personal ability to enjoy alts as different people all of whom do NOT exist in a vacuum.

It's not a problem for me, but you need to try to understand that it IS a HUGE PROBLEM for a lot of people who play this game. So in Tandor's situation, he's going to limit himself to one character on his third account in order to NOT have all the crap that ZOS is promulgating for AWA affect his other accounts - so perhaps some day, this might get "fixed" so he can play his other characters the way he prefers.

[snip]

[Edit for minor bait.]

I was just trying to understand what he was saying. I can see why some dislike AWA, but the point that only a single character was needed now didn't seem accurate at all. That is why I asked.

On the AWA issue: I see that as a boon for me, an altoholic, so I can play the character I want, not the one that needs to the achievement. Hopefully I can stop to fish at times on whatever character I am on, for example, without caring that all of them will not get "Master Angler" by themselves.

I do see that many care deeply about this, but I am not convinced it is most of the player base.

If you played your characters in such a manner as they all had their own identity and their own story, then after the patch, some of that identity will be taken away. For better or worse, achievements are the journel of our characters journey through Tamriel.

I sympathize, I am one of them. If all of their identities are the same, why do I need them? I have 5 characters safe from deletion, but I fall pretty firmly in the "wait and see" category. Admittedly I havent participated this PTS cycle as I have in the past, though I have been watching the feedback.

Its been over 4 years and the highest character count that Ive had was 13 of the possible 18. I doubt that Ill ever see 18 to be honest.

You would still not cover all the races with a single character, hence my question.

No, I wouldnt. Nor would I attempt to. In the past I have tried to incoporate one of each race into my stable. The exception being Orcs. Ive never found myself wanting to play one, whether they were meta or not. Same with necros. I just cant find the love for them.

They may be different races, but effectively its still all the same story. Its just not something that Im overly interested in. I don't hate it, its just not what I want.

starkerealm

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

It's not most of the player base. Yet.

I expect the - um, can't post that here - to hit the fan very shortly after U33 lands. Of course, since most people who play don't likely have forum accounts (and probably have no idea how to GET a forum account).... the most logical outcome is they groan and moan to the people they know, and then they leave the game.

Once the fallout occurs, and the money dries up.... well, it'll be interesting.

Again, I don't care one way or the other - I have NO use for the whole achievement silliness, and it's not going to affect how I play the game. What WILL affect how I play the game is if the money dries up in a huge way, and there's no game to play thereafter.

Your latter statement is most likely accurate for most players. They may think "cool, another achievement" but many just play to have fun, not to earn achievements.

I can't see most players quitting over the issue (which is past the 18 character issue in this thread), but we shall see as you note.

I can't see a realistically significant number of players quitting over this. Most people seem to be indifferent to achievements (as a general concept.) Of those who do care, you're further refining down to the ones who are so passionate about achievements that they'd quit the game over them. Then of that even smaller subset, only the ones who want individual character achievements, but simultaneously are willing to quit the game over account achievements...

So, that's a very short list.

Especially as the avid achievement hunters tend to be in the, "gotta catch 'em all," mindset, and this actually facilitates that.

FlopsyPrince

Agenericname wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

You only play one alliance and race?

Sylvermynx wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

The way things are on the PTS, 18 slots are 17 too many for me. Unless things are fixed in time, and ZOS don't seem to accept that there's anything wrong with the present implementation of account-wide achievements then I'll cancel the subs on my two main accounts and just play the single character on my third account. That way his individual progression can never be compromised. I'd never delete any of the other characters, nor however would I muddle up their achievements as they're all individual characters with different approaches to the game. It's all so regrettable, but nothing like as regrettable as their refusal to engage with us about it.

You only play one alliance and race?

[snip]

No, he plays various character of various races, in the three factions. But he sees this change as impacting his personal ability to enjoy alts as different people all of whom do NOT exist in a vacuum.

It's not a problem for me, but you need to try to understand that it IS a HUGE PROBLEM for a lot of people who play this game. So in Tandor's situation, he's going to limit himself to one character on his third account in order to NOT have all the crap that ZOS is promulgating for AWA affect his other accounts - so perhaps some day, this might get "fixed" so he can play his other characters the way he prefers.

[snip]

[Edit for minor bait.]

I was just trying to understand what he was saying. I can see why some dislike AWA, but the point that only a single character was needed now didn't seem accurate at all. That is why I asked.

On the AWA issue: I see that as a boon for me, an altoholic, so I can play the character I want, not the one that needs to the achievement. Hopefully I can stop to fish at times on whatever character I am on, for example, without caring that all of them will not get "Master Angler" by themselves.

I do see that many care deeply about this, but I am not convinced it is most of the player base.

If you played your characters in such a manner as they all had their own identity and their own story, then after the patch, some of that identity will be taken away. For better or worse, achievements are the journel of our characters journey through Tamriel.

I sympathize, I am one of them. If all of their identities are the same, why do I need them? I have 5 characters safe from deletion, but I fall pretty firmly in the "wait and see" category. Admittedly I havent participated this PTS cycle as I have in the past, though I have been watching the feedback.

Its been over 4 years and the highest character count that Ive had was 13 of the possible 18. I doubt that Ill ever see 18 to be honest.

You would still not cover all the races with a single character, hence my question.

No, I wouldnt. Nor would I attempt to. In the past I have tried to incoporate one of each race into my stable. The exception being Orcs. Ive never found myself wanting to play one, whether they were meta or not. Same with necros. I just cant find the love for them.

They may be different races, but effectively its still all the same story. Its just not something that Im overly interested in. I don't hate it, its just not what I want.

That makes sense for you then.

I tend to have at least "1 of each" in whatever MMO I am playing, so it is a different approach for me, but I am certainly not "all players".

Thanks!

ectoplasmicninja

I just dislike the world reacting to my brand new characters the same way it reacts to my accomplished heroes. I don't want to see NPCs overlapping each other because the world can't decide who is supposed to be where anymore. I don't want new characters to be locked out of certain epilogue dialogue because it's been experienced already on a previous character. These were all issues I saw on the PTS. If the reactivity of the world state were linked to something else other than achievements and it would continue to be personalised per character, I would be perfectly fine.

Edit: On the topic of character slots, I love creating and levelling characters. I just enjoy the experience of slowly getting stronger and more diverse in skill and the process of my character discovering more of Tamriel. They're all individuals to me and they feel different to play because their internal dialogue is different. I have had to delete many, many characters in order to make room for new ones. I'd love more slots.

FlopsyPrince

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

I just dislike the world reacting to my brand new characters the same way it reacts to my accomplished heroes. I don't want to see NPCs overlapping each other because the world can't decide who is supposed to be where anymore. I don't want new characters to be locked out of certain epilogue dialogue because it's been experienced already on a previous character. These were all issues I saw on the PTS. If the reactivity of the world state were linked to something else other than achievements and it would continue to be personalised per character, I would be perfectly fine.

Edit: On the topic of character slots, I love creating and levelling characters. I just enjoy the experience of slowly getting stronger and more diverse in skill and the process of my character discovering more of Tamriel. They're all individuals to me and they feel different to play because their internal dialogue is different. I have had to delete many, many characters in order to make room for new ones. I'd love more slots.

I always thought it was odd that one of my characters could not tell another character where all the wayshrines are (in this and other games). The same would be true of skyshards. Those should not cost Crowns to learn, but a very reasonable gold fee.

It looks like they have ways to make everyone unhappy.

Kallykat

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

I just dislike the world reacting to my brand new characters the same way it reacts to my accomplished heroes. I don't want to see NPCs overlapping each other because the world can't decide who is supposed to be where anymore. I don't want new characters to be locked out of certain epilogue dialogue because it's been experienced already on a previous character. These were all issues I saw on the PTS. If the reactivity of the world state were linked to something else other than achievements and it would continue to be personalised per character, I would be perfectly fine.

Edit: On the topic of character slots, I love creating and levelling characters. I just enjoy the experience of slowly getting stronger and more diverse in skill and the process of my character discovering more of Tamriel. They're all individuals to me and they feel different to play because their internal dialogue is different. I have had to delete many, many characters in order to make room for new ones. I'd love more slots.

I need some clarification. Are you saying that if I make a new character for the new chapter and she runs into an NPC I've met with a previous character in a previous DLC, AWA will make it so that the NPC reacts as if they've already met?

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Kallykat wrote: »

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

I just dislike the world reacting to my brand new characters the same way it reacts to my accomplished heroes. I don't want to see NPCs overlapping each other because the world can't decide who is supposed to be where anymore. I don't want new characters to be locked out of certain epilogue dialogue because it's been experienced already on a previous character. These were all issues I saw on the PTS. If the reactivity of the world state were linked to something else other than achievements and it would continue to be personalised per character, I would be perfectly fine.

Edit: On the topic of character slots, I love creating and levelling characters. I just enjoy the experience of slowly getting stronger and more diverse in skill and the process of my character discovering more of Tamriel. They're all individuals to me and they feel different to play because their internal dialogue is different. I have had to delete many, many characters in order to make room for new ones. I'd love more slots.

I need some clarification. Are you saying that if I make a new character for the new chapter and she runs into an NPC I've met with a previous character in a previous DLC, AWA will make it so that the NPC reacts as if they've already met?

Yes... Sad isn't it...