Remove hardened ward

technohic · April 2015

McDoogs wrote: »

Blazing shield on my stam templar with 20k hp gives me a ~8k shield. Hardened ward on my magicka sorc with 24k magicka gives me a ...~8k shield.

Totally OP, bro.

Hmmm 8k on 20k HP templar? Even before the 15% reduction in Cyrodiil; 30% of 20k = 6000. So pics or it didn't happen.

Ezareth · April 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

You can't nerf skill...OP or not.

It is exactly as skillful as dodge-rolling. Actually a lot less so, because at least you need to pick a direction w/ a dodge roll, lol.

Actually using bolt escape requires far more skill than dodge rolling unless you're one of those people who are animation cancelling abilities while dodge rolling then it is probably equal.

You not only have to choose the direction of your bolt escape, you have to already have a clear path of escape, you have to decide in a split second whether you can afford to hold block while bolt escaping to avoid a stun to the back or whether you have enough stamina to do that. You have to decide if you have enough health to bolt escape one more time to put distance between you and your attacks or whether you have to eat the incoming damage and refresh your shields and start all over again. You have to know *exactly* where your bolt escape will land you. If you're bolting down hill you'll take a long time to fall and fall damage and pursuers will keep pace with you, if you're bolting uphill you wont bolt nearly as far so attacks will still be keeping pace with you and if there is a tiny branch, tree or rock in the way in your path you will get stuck on it by bolting. If whoever is chasing you happens to have roots and you're facing that rock/tree, if you can't afford to dodge roll out of it, you're dead. If you're really good you can use the terrain to your advantage while bolt escaping. Pursuers can't keep up with you if you're bolt escaping from rocks that can't be jumped across and even if they can it will slow them. Dodge rolling while bolt escaping is the only way to avoid a crit-charging pain train too, otherwise you are dead.

Everyone things that Bolt Escape is just point away from your attack and spam your bolt escape key and nothing else. Sure it *can* be that simple but the sorcs who only know how to do that die easily. I chase them down and kill them every single time.

Artemiisia · April 2015

Varicite · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Actually using bolt escape requires far more skill than dodge rolling unless you're one of those people who are animation cancelling abilities while dodge rolling then it is probably equal.

I was referring to Hardened Ward, which the thread and the post that I quoted was about. <.<

I know all about the woes of Bolt Escape, believe me, lol. Pebbles be damned.

exiledtyrant · April 2015

Varicite wrote: »

exiledtyrant wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

Ikarus wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

NoRefunds wrote: »

Just make hardened ward scale of HP like every other shield in the game (annulment is kinda fine since its only spell dmg) and increase the cost of consecutive bolt escapes to 70%, and sorcs will be balanced

Haha. Haha. That's funny.

No. Just no.

The fact that BE already costs a lot as it is, and Sorcs have no great class self-heals means that it would only destroy the class a little bit more than it already is. Their BE and ward need to be left alone.

Yeah and NB has no dmgshield AND no heal. And now everybody runs with detectionpots which have trololol-range, so our only defensive skill is useless too.

I PLAY a nb, and I think it's fine that we have no dmg shield. And we *do* have self-heals, in a way, but they're at least better than any class heals a Sorc has.

NB self-heals are better than a Sorc, but only marginally, and that's only due to Soul Tether.

For in-combat healing, all a NB has is Strife / Sap (Sap is pretty meh now, just like Surge). All of the other heals require killing an opponent and are completely unavailable as in-combat sustain.

Strife and Surge are very comparable to one another as far as healing goes (except that Surge is FAR better than Strife for Stamina builds since it scales from crit and not spell damage / magicka).

Sap Essence is comparatively worse than Blood Magic passively healing 8% on every Frag, Restraining Prison, Mines, or Negate.

So it really only comes down to Soul Tether tipping the scales in the NB's favor, but they are honestly pretty close. I say this as the proud owner of a VR12 Sorc and multiple VR NBs, so I do have experience playing both of these classes in PvP.

We are gonna just forget all the ridiculous heal amp a NB can stack or that a lot of their passive are better than sorc in general?

Not sure what all the "ridiculous heal amp" you are talking about. Mind clarifying?

As for the passives, I actually agree, but I'm fairly certain that NB and Sorc heals were being compared, not passives.

And as it goes for heals, the classes are pretty comparable for in-combat healing. If you don't think so, you very likely don't play both classes.

/shrug

Ezareth wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Can't believe they STILL haven't nerfed this highly OP ability..

You can't nerf skill...OP or not.

It is exactly as skillful as dodge-rolling. Actually a lot less so, because at least you need to pick a direction w/ a dodge roll, lol.

Night blades can get up to 15% extra healing for having a bar of siphon skills and 8% just for having swallow soul slotted. Seeing as siphon has some of the best skills for utility and sustain it's not uncommon to run into a NB using at least 3 of the skills with one of them almost always being swallow soul so that's at least 17% heal amp. I usually see NB using siphon skills + resto staff for even more heal amp. Lets also not act like NB with their great stam regen can't use bone shield.

Meanwhile sorcerer gets no heal amp and our heal is percent based on max health that we are not encouraged to stack and don't have passives that boost it. Dark deal for instance is 12% of you max magicka or stamina to gain 12% of your health and magicka or stamina each second for 4 seconds. It can't crit and it is not effected by resource reductions in anyway. That's no way comparable to the healing an NB can do without also being better at resto staff. Blood magic in itself is a total joke. Good luck casting 3-5.5k magicka spells ( even after 10% reduction and cost reduction jewlery) for a 8% health heal that procs once a second and no dark deal does not trigger it.

Ezareth · April 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Actually using bolt escape requires far more skill than dodge rolling unless you're one of those people who are animation cancelling abilities while dodge rolling then it is probably equal.

I was referring to Hardened Ward, which the thread and the post that I quoted was about. <.<

I know all about the woes of Bolt Escape, believe me, lol. Pebbles be damned.

Sorry, so many nerf threads it's hard to keep them all straight and the distinction wasn't very clear with your post.

Cody · April 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

People are having problems with sorcs because they can stack quite a few damage shields, and get them to reach high values.

I too hate damage shield stacking/spamming. I too want it gone. HOWEVER it is a necessary evil with the way things are right now.

with all these 20K WBs and apparently 30K meteors going around, sorcs HAVE to stack damage shields just to survive.

Its not even just isolated to sorcs, EVERY light armor player has to stack damage shields just to get by, especially sorcs and NBs. heck even medium armor and even HA players have to do it due to these high damage numbers.

My Vr14 NB is totally useless in PvP now due to the way things are, and iv played PVP since beta:( so its not my lack of skill getting me killed. she does not use a single damage shield or self heal, and she absolutely cannot compete now due to it. Its either "damage shield stack" or die. It has nothing to do with the sorcerer. the sorcerer just has acess to more and better damage shields than the other 3 classes do, making them more suited for this "new" meta, than the other 3 classes.

I have advocated WBs doing massive amounts of damage, and I still do, but 20K is literally 1/4 of most player's bars. 14K lethal arrows when im in all epic/legendary medium armor is crazy(its not heavy armor, but its not weak either, I should not be gettin hit for 14K:/) and i pray to sithis the reports i've heard of 30K meteors are not true...

until the damage gets toned down, people will be forced into this "new" damage shield meta, and it will not change. do not blame damage shields, blame what is forcing people to do it. Blame the insane regain rates and the CS system problems; blame the 20K WBs and the 30K meteors that force people into this frustrating and ridiculous play style.

ok, i've said my piece, im out.

I hear this from many posters but I can't quite comprehend the logic behind it. Let's say it is true that the low-health and high-damage realities in Cyrodiil make it absolutely necessary to adopt damage shields for a light armor wearer now that its mitigation is worthless. In fact, I will accept this hypothesis. I will not set foot outside a keep without packing a damage shield.

But how does reversing or "fixing" the parameters of 1.6 Cyrodiil change the "problem" people have with damage shields? I mean if we buff light armor and health to what they were in 1.5 and tone done the damage by 25%...what is to stop people from using damage shields? Wouldn't this make the problem worse since it will take you even longer to burst down a damage shield and at the point still have to contend with fairly resistant armor and a high health target?

I also question the statement that sorcs make that they are "forced" to use damage shields because reasons. Like you still wouldn't cast hardened ward if you had a self heal, armor that wasn't tissue paper, and a high health pool? You going to slot liquid lightning istead ? You aren't "forced" to use a damage shield, you *choose* to use them because they are powerful and versatile defensive spells and would be a fool not to continue using them regardless of what the TTK parameters were in Cyrodiil.

In the DK heydays of pre 1.6, they still used igneous shield (or fragmented when it was a stupidly good dps skill) even with their batswarms, talons, reflect, perma-blocking, etc...

Maybe I overvalue these defensive skills, but I will say with 100% certainty that if all PVP damage was cut in half on a hot patch tomorrow, I will still rock hardened ward, harness magicka, and healing ward.

you do not believe LA players are forced to use damage shields? then enter cyrodiil and see for yourself.

once(if) the damage gets toned down; then yes, many people would likely still use damage shields; but many others would be able to abandon that play style and go for the pure DPS build or the pure heal build or whatever they want.

either way the damage still needs tone down. We do not need one shot WBs.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · July 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

nothing2591 wrote: »

i cant belive this spell is still in the game, its so stupid that sorcs can shield for 100% of their hp with the press of 1 button.

It does NOT shield for 100% HP.

Here is mine:

This is a 48.3% shield. Nowhere near a 100% one. That 9,927 damage shield can be blown off with one wrecking blow, crit. charge, snipe, etc. etc.

Please don't post about things you obviously know nothing about.

well i do know and there must be something wrong with ur harden ward i get 100 health cover and its takes 10 secs in pvp i just spamm that alot, unless there is 4-5 of the other faction on me i never die

BurtFreeman · July 2015

nothing2591 wrote: »

i cant belive this spell is still in the game, its so stupid that sorcs can shield for 100% of their hp with the press of 1 button.

first just to know, my favorite class is the sorc;
second: yes!, the sorc have almost the best everywhere in the game.
i give you totally right, becouse i got boring playng as god mode with the sorc.

say that, i am asking around for unlock the classes, this could be a reasonable starting point, in give away the sorc power to oevery body.

Zsymon · July 2015

Hardened Ward is perfectly fine, the problem is shield stacking.

tist · July 2015

OP can't 1 snipe sorcs.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2015

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

nothing2591 wrote: »

i cant belive this spell is still in the game, its so stupid that sorcs can shield for 100% of their hp with the press of 1 button.

It does NOT shield for 100% HP.

Here is mine:

This is a 48.3% shield. Nowhere near a 100% one. That 9,927 damage shield can be blown off with one wrecking blow, crit. charge, snipe, etc. etc.

Please don't post about things you obviously know nothing about.

well i do know and there must be something wrong with ur harden ward i get 100 health cover and its takes 10 secs in pvp i just spamm that alot, unless there is 4-5 of the other faction on me i never die

How about actual numbers, not percentages then?

The only way you're getting 100% shield value out of HW is if you have ridiculously low health, ridiculously high Magicka, and Bastion is sitting at 100 points.

Even then, even with the 33% bonus to you with Hardened, you're not doubling your effective health unless you have no health bonuses at all.

Spamming ward and not getting killed = waiting for more of the other guys friends to finish you off. If you're only spamming ward, you're also not DPSing.

Feel free to post screenshots (make to remove the other shields from your skill bar that are actually making it appear to have that value first). You can also show your character sheet + the tooltip of Hardened Ward.

I hear photoshop is good for that sort of thing.