Remove hardened ward

Bashev

Francescolg wrote: »

It is funny, how people that actually don't play a healer come to the forums to explain, why their 10k shield is worth (so much) less than a heal... and everybody acts as if they wouldn't know that most, by a large number, most healers in PvP also use absorb shields or HoT mechanics or other self-defense mechanics in 1 on 1 situations (because of healing-debuffs, not beeing able to target single players, etc etc). These people, many of them writing here, also close their eyes in view of the changed conditions after this patch, specifically for healer-templars, whose survivability -beside casting healings/purge all day long- is very similar to a sorcerer (without a 10k shield, without a teleport, etc.). Casting heals for defense in 1 on 1 encounters is also no real option, because an absorb shield is way better in case of being CC'd and other emergencies and CC occurs all the time in PvP, left and right, and healing debuff about 30-50% is often seen.
So no, healers do not just heal themselfes in 1v1 but prefer an absorb shield (vs. snipe, etc etc). We also rely on light-armor, have very low resistances and no escape spell at all.

We are arguing about 1v1 encounters, which happen quite often these days, as I can witness, even in keep-fights or when surrounded by the crowd, 1 on 1-situations occur very often to me. This is why this game should also be balanced for 1on1 situations. I do not accept the hint for a "group based"-game, in the case of ESO this seems wrong!

In a game with only 4 classes (!) all PvP-balancing has to take into account a typical 1 vs. 1 situation (without ultimates).
In the specific case: DD Sorcerer (resto/destru) vs. Healer/DD/magicka-Templar (resto/destru) we have the problem that none of the templar's skills will do enough damage to break the sorc's shield fast enough to disable the sorcerer from reapplying it (when both players are at 100% HP). We could try with DoTs but most templars don't use them (reason 1: the 10% crit bonus of reflective light is also activated by magicka pots, etc. etc // reason 2: DoT damage is insignificant, Instants hurt much better). DoTs do not help us to get you shield down. CC will only help 2-3 seconds, By this time the templar will hardly get through your shield (1 cast - 8.000 dmg, 2 cast - may hit, meanwhile sorc breaks-free and reapplies the shield)

Beside all the math, magicka-templars have to choose whether we want to spec for damage (spell dmg) or defense (HP, etc.). Going for spell dmg will help us to fight sorcerers but leaves us with absolutely no usable absorb shield, while resto- or light armor-shields alone are worse than a decent absorb-shield, especially light-armor shields often don't help ++ players focus on skills which are not reflected by other skills / which are not absorbed by light-armor shield)

As a sorc you can go for full burst and full absorb shield at the same time. So, effectively you could have only 13-15k HP + 10k HP, while having the same HP as players who renounced to have 3k-4k more damage on their spells by spell dmg.

This gap was created with 1.6. Most sorcerers are enjoying their max-dmg / max-shield build in PvP and the numerous "unwillingness to understand" is fully comprehensible. Nonetheless (beside all buffed stamina/HP-specs) we have other classes/specs in light armor which were hurt by 1.6. and JESUS-BEAM won't help at all.
As already happened very often, they nurfed templars more than buffing them. In front of the nurf-list stand: Radiant Aura and Blazing Shield, which was "acceptable" (to suck up one DD at least) and is now half the value of a 10k absorb shield, when going for spell dmg / magicka...

Going for max DD-damage has to come with a sacrifice, even for sorcerers! ;-)

I totally agree with you. As I said it several times, in 1.6 Sors are the new DKs, not because they are so overpowered as DKs used to be but because their attributes (magicka) and skills synergizes extremely well.

Snit

Francescolg wrote: »

We are arguing about 1v1 encounters, which happen quite often these days, as I can witness, even in keep-fights or when surrounded by the crowd, 1 on 1-situations occur very often to me. This is why this game should also be balanced for 1on1 situations. I do not accept the hint for a "group based"-game

Every class has purpose-built "dueling builds" that are very difficult to kill and excel in 1v1 or 1v2 situations. Almost all of them involve sword and board and a focus on stamina/ magicka regen. You can go that route if you're worried mostly about 1v1. Note that this will make you less useful in group situations.

And your decision not to accept that this is a group-based game may be your own to make, but it's directly at odds with the core design of the game. TESO PvP is designed around group combat, even massive group combat. That's what this game is. If you're looking for something that focuses on 1v1, you did a spectacular job of picking the wrong product

Ezareth

Francescolg wrote: »

As a sorc you can go for full burst and full absorb shield at the same time. So, effectively you could have only 13-15k HP + 10k HP, while having the same HP as players who renounced to have 3k-4k more damage on their spells by spell dmg.

This gap was created with 1.6. Most sorcerers are enjoying their max-dmg / max-shield build in PvP and the numerous "unwillingness to understand" is fully comprehensible. Nonetheless (beside all buffed stamina/HP-specs) we have other classes/specs in light armor which were hurt by 1.6. and JESUS-BEAM won't help at all.
As already happened very often, they nurfed templars more than buffing them. In front of the nurf-list stand: Radiant Aura and Blazing Shield, which was "acceptable" (to suck up one DD at least) and is now half the value of a 10k absorb shield, when going for spell dmg / magicka...

Going for max DD-damage has to come with a sacrifice, even for sorcerers! ;-)

While I appreciate and understand the issues you as a templar face, I don't know enough about them to really give you advice. I do know there are good templars who are damn near impossible for me to kill so I know there is a way.

I take issue with the suggestion by everyone that every sorc is stacking magicka and that is somehow giving him ridiculous damage *and* survivability.

The extra damage given to us by a few thousand extra magicka compared to "other" classes who spend a few more points in health is *negligible*. Our base attacks are relatively weak and they are the easiest to counter out of all the classes.

Seriously have you guys even sat down to calculate the difference between a sorc stacking magicka and a sorc with this "Balanced" approach to stats with health and magicka? The damage difference is not all that big of a deal and our damage is *far* beneath that on average of any given Stamina build out there.

You guys are basically complaining about things you really don't understand because you're having difficulty fighting a particular class and build and the only solution you see to fighting them is to call for them to be nerfed.

Why is it there are players of *every* class out there who are just as powerful as me and can kill me as often as I kill them? There are DKs, Templar and Nightblades who I absolutely hate going up against on the field. This tell me that your 1 v 1 class balance exists, but there *is* a skill disparity. Instead of trying to fix your problems by bringing other classes down to your skill level (and thus screwing all the players of that class who are not exceptionally skilled) try bringing your skill level up to meet that of the opponents you're facing that you have difficulty with.

I kill shield stacking pure magicka sorcs *every day* in Cyrodiil. Some of them are my easiest kills! This is because the player makes the class, not the class makes the player.

Varicite

Ezareth wrote: »

Why is it there are players of *every* class out there who are just as powerful as me and can kill me as often as I kill them? There are DKs, Templar and Nightblades who I absolutely hate going up against on the field. This tell me that your 1 v 1 class balance exists, but there *is* a skill disparity. Instead of trying to fix your problems by bringing other classes down to your skill level (and thus screwing all the players of that class who are not exceptionally skilled) try bringing your skill level up to meet that of the opponents you're facing that you have difficulty with.

I kill shield stacking pure magicka sorcs *every day* in Cyrodiil. Some of them are my easiest kills! This is because the player makes the class, not the class makes the player.

What you seem to actually be talking about is "build disparity", not skill disparity (though obviously skill does play a factor a lot of the times).

Yes, builds that are designed for high burst damage can kill Sorcs. That wasn't really being questioned, though. You seem to be hung up on this idea that everyone is just tired of dying to Sorcs. For me, it's more of a balance issue.

I don't think it's a very good design for a single ability to counter any build that isn't specifically designed to get through it, while also not sacrificing anything in terms of damage.

Wrecking Blow and some outliers can stand to be toned down now, but I view that as a separate issue personally. I don't feel that the answer to why Sorcs are allowed to be held to a different standard in having both functioning escapes as well as heavy defenses w/out sacrificing any damage should simply be: Wrecking Blow exists.

cozmon3c_ESO

Varicite wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Why is it there are players of *every* class out there who are just as powerful as me and can kill me as often as I kill them? There are DKs, Templar and Nightblades who I absolutely hate going up against on the field. This tell me that your 1 v 1 class balance exists, but there *is* a skill disparity. Instead of trying to fix your problems by bringing other classes down to your skill level (and thus screwing all the players of that class who are not exceptionally skilled) try bringing your skill level up to meet that of the opponents you're facing that you have difficulty with.

I kill shield stacking pure magicka sorcs *every day* in Cyrodiil. Some of them are my easiest kills! This is because the player makes the class, not the class makes the player.

What you seem to actually be talking about is "build disparity", not skill disparity (though obviously skill does play a factor a lot of the times).

Yes, builds that are designed for high burst damage can kill Sorcs. That wasn't really being questioned, though. You seem to be hung up on this idea that everyone is just tired of dying to Sorcs. For me, it's more of a balance issue.

I don't think it's a very good design for a single ability to counter any build that isn't specifically designed to get through it, while also not sacrificing anything in terms of damage.

Wrecking Blow and some outliers can stand to be toned down now, but I view that as a separate issue personally. I don't feel that the answer to why Sorcs are allowed to be held to a different standard in having both functioning escapes as well as heavy defenses w/out sacrificing any damage should simply be: Wrecking Blow exists.

dont forget lethal arrow

Soarin'

Wrecking blow is a pain to land, there is no lock on, it's LOS based, close range and can be easily stopped by a player manoeuvring around during the cast time (or through you because LOLCOLLISIONDETECTION which is often the easiest). Against a decent player I only manage to connect wrecking blow on maybe 1/3rd of all attempts, which equates to two or more seconds of lost DPS due to animation lock.

If you got hit the best chances are you were probably running away, stood still or stunned.

The amount of sorcs defending the current state of shields is laughable, there are a handful of active users on the forums who consistently shout down any complaints voiced against the current state of shield in game in numerous threads. You don't debate by ganging up on people online and I think it speaks harsh truths about their lack of good character. Some of whom have already posted here

Ezareth

Varicite wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Why is it there are players of *every* class out there who are just as powerful as me and can kill me as often as I kill them? There are DKs, Templar and Nightblades who I absolutely hate going up against on the field. This tell me that your 1 v 1 class balance exists, but there *is* a skill disparity. Instead of trying to fix your problems by bringing other classes down to your skill level (and thus screwing all the players of that class who are not exceptionally skilled) try bringing your skill level up to meet that of the opponents you're facing that you have difficulty with.

I kill shield stacking pure magicka sorcs *every day* in Cyrodiil. Some of them are my easiest kills! This is because the player makes the class, not the class makes the player.

What you seem to actually be talking about is "build disparity", not skill disparity (though obviously skill does play a factor a lot of the times).

Yes, builds that are designed for high burst damage can kill Sorcs. That wasn't really being questioned, though. You seem to be hung up on this idea that everyone is just tired of dying to Sorcs. For me, it's more of a balance issue.

I don't think it's a very good design for a single ability to counter any build that isn't specifically designed to get through it, while also not sacrificing anything in terms of damage.

Wrecking Blow and some outliers can stand to be toned down now, but I view that as a separate issue personally. I don't feel that the answer to why Sorcs are allowed to be held to a different standard in having both functioning escapes as well as heavy defenses w/out sacrificing any damage should simply be: Wrecking Blow exists.

No it isn't a build disparity, it is a *skill* disparity. And by skill I also mean knowing which skill to use and *when* to use it and I'm not talking about high burst damage builds either. Those guys kill me from time to time but almost never solo because no good player that I can think off is running a high burst damage build right now. Survivability and sustainability is always the mainstay of skilled players at least in small group and solo play.

Bolt Escape without Hardened ward in it's current state = dead sorc every time.

You guys act like Bolt escape is the end all be all escape ability. Sorcs are most vulnerable while they're bolt escaping and 3/4s or more of my Sorc kills happen while he is trying to bolt escape away. Watch some of my videos or other sorcs as -they're casting escape. Unlike dodge roll, Bolt escape shares the same global cooldown as our Hardened ward. When we have 2/3 people targeting us and we want to put some distance between us an them we're often just standing there recasting hardened ward over and over and unable to bolt escape because it only takes a half second of having it down for us to die otherwise and hardened ward is shredded the moment we recast it. I used to substitute recasting hardened ward with a dodge roll but now with the cost of dodge rolls and the fact a single break-free costs me 2/3s of my stamina bar I can't afford the luxury so I just stand there getting beat on while recasting hardened ward.

So yes, unless they're going to *really* tone down the damage across the board, reducing the shield values given by hardened ward would make an already extremely squishy class even squishier. You guys really need to step back and look at how Sorcs changed from 1.5 to 1.6. We are FAR less survivable in 1.6 than we were in 1.5 with nerfs across to board. To have you guys coming in here asking to nerf our survivability even further because you failed to adjust properly to 1.6 is pretty infuriating.

Ezareth

Soarin' wrote: »

Wrecking blow is a pain to land, there is no lock on, it's LOS based, close range and can be easily stopped by a player manoeuvring around during the cast time (or through you because LOLCOLLISIONDETECTION which is often the easiest). Against a decent player I only manage to connect wrecking blow on maybe 1/3rd of all attempts, which equates to two or more seconds of lost DPS due to animation lock.

If you got hit the best chances are you were probably running away, stood still or stunned.

The amount of sorcs defending the current state of shields is laughable, there are a handful of active users on the forums who consistently shout down any complaints voiced against the current state of shield in game in numerous threads. You don't debate by ganging up on people online and I think it speaks harsh truths about their lack of good character. Some of whom have already posted here

I have video of me getting killed by a wrecking blow from 10 feet away. I know of 1 player in particular who has *never* missed a wrecking blow against me no matter what I do. Since I've never used a melee weapon ability I can't really give you advice but if you're having issues landing blows maybe you need to go to the batting cages or something.

I got killed by a *22K* wrecking blow the other night after the DK bashed one of my casts. I was wearing 5 pieces of legendary V14 light armor and 2 pieces of legendary Heavy armor with reinforced trait and a legendary shield with reinforced trait. The highest Crit I've got running full spell damage, Major prophecy, and Mages guild buff using the Nnirnhoned bug that fully pieces spell pen and further increases my damage to over the maximum was just under *19K* on a power overload crit. That should tell you about how weak magic damage is right now.

We're not ganging up on people online, but when the same people continuously spread the same misinformation in hopes of getting you class nerfed there is nothing else we can do but defend ourselves. If the moderators weren't suddenly on hiatus they would have long since reigned this in. In there absence we take upon ourselves to stop the disinformation.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it, I don't see any skilled players that I've run into posting in these threads complaining about hardened ward.

Soarin'

Ezareth wrote: »

We're not ganging up on people online, but when the same people continuously spread the same misinformation in hopes of getting you class nerfed there is nothing else we can do but defend ourselves. If the moderators weren't suddenly on hiatus they would have long since reigned this in. In there absence we take upon ourselves to stop the disinformation.

You seem to think I was referring to you, why is that?

Joy_Division

Ezareth - You are just wasting your time.

The posters on this subject, like most of the contentious subjects, have strong confirmation bias and only have the image of a low health sorc bolting away depriving them of a kill, rather than the kill 20 sorc quest that was fulfilled during a single Thornblade engagement at the Ash Milegate.

I mean the same DKs who are complaining about your shields and your bolt escape defend their scales and their talons until the cows come home. And then there are Templars and their Jesus Beams. Archers and their lethal arrows (my personal favorite "dodge whenever you hear the pfft sound"...I'm betting many don;t use that logic when complaining about the new siege weapons). And NBs who crop up in every single thread to tell us that shadow cloak is broken and their class sucks even if they all still use cloak and Krim doesn't die despite being attacked by a dozen people.

Most of the people complaining about sorcs are directing their ire not at being killed by a sorcerer, but how hard it is to kill them. Being a DK two-hander must be tough in Cyrodiil at the moment dealing with all the cockroaches bolt escaping away.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Why is this thread not closed yet?

pronkg

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Why is this thread not closed yet?

Cause some people still need to l2p

Derra

I´m a sorc. I ravage ppl. They deserve it. I deserve it. Months of being a negate monkey entitle me to farm scrubs that come chasing after my trace of BOLs.

It´s ppls worst nightmare come true that their juicy low dmg sorc ap piniatas can now turn around and fry them in three casts. I love it.

Soarin'

Odd how people will claim balance in one thread and laugh at how powerful their skills are in another.

Ezareth wrote: »

I just stack shields + purge while standing in fire and laugh at all the puny NB corpses around me.

Tankqull

Soarin' wrote: »

Odd how people will claim balance in one thread and laugh at how powerful their skills are in another.

Ezareth wrote: »

I just stack shields + purge while standing in fire and laugh at all the puny NB corpses around me.

its funny how people do not understand how to survive siege wepons - and thus dead NB all around... especially when they are vamps for the stealth speed advantage ^^

Bashev

Soarin' wrote: »

Odd how people will claim balance in one thread and laugh at how powerful their skills are in another.

Ezareth wrote: "I just stack shields + purge while standing in fire and laugh at all the puny NB corpses around me."

Touche!

technohic

Francescolg wrote: »

It is funny, how people that actually don't play a healer come to the forums to explain, why their 10k shield is worth (so much) less than a heal... and everybody acts as if they wouldn't know that most, by a large number, most healers in PvP also use absorb shields or HoT mechanics or other self-defense mechanics in 1 on 1 situations (because of healing-debuffs, not beeing able to target single players, etc etc). These people, many of them writing here, also close their eyes in view of the changed conditions after this patch, specifically for healer-templars, whose survivability -beside casting healings/purge all day long- is very similar to a sorcerer (without a 10k shield, without a teleport, etc.). Casting heals for defense in 1 on 1 encounters is also no real option, because an absorb shield is way better in case of being CC'd and other emergencies and CC occurs all the time in PvP, left and right, and healing debuff about 30-50% is often seen.
So no, healers do not just heal themselfes in 1v1 but prefer an absorb shield (vs. snipe, etc etc). We also rely on light-armor, have very low resistances and no escape spell at all.

We are arguing about 1v1 encounters, which happen quite often these days, as I can witness, even in keep-fights or when surrounded by the crowd, 1 on 1-situations occur very often to me. This is why this game should also be balanced for 1on1 situations. I do not accept the hint for a "group based"-game, in the case of ESO this seems wrong!

In a game with only 4 classes (!) all PvP-balancing has to take into account a typical 1 vs. 1 situation (without ultimates).
In the specific case: DD Sorcerer (resto/destru) vs. Healer/DD/magicka-Templar (resto/destru) we have the problem that none of the templar's skills will do enough damage to break the sorc's shield fast enough to disable the sorcerer from reapplying it (when both players are at 100% HP). We could try with DoTs but most templars don't use them (reason 1: the 10% crit bonus of reflective light is also activated by magicka pots, etc. etc // reason 2: DoT damage is insignificant, Instants hurt much better). DoTs do not help us to get you shield down. CC will only help 2-3 seconds, By this time the templar will hardly get through your shield (1 cast - 8.000 dmg, 2 cast - may hit, meanwhile sorc breaks-free and reapplies the shield)

Beside all the math, magicka-templars have to choose whether we want to spec for damage (spell dmg) or defense (HP, etc.). Going for spell dmg will help us to fight sorcerers but leaves us with absolutely no usable absorb shield, while resto- or light armor-shields alone are worse than a decent absorb-shield, especially light-armor shields often don't help ++ players focus on skills which are not reflected by other skills / which are not absorbed by light-armor shield)

As a sorc you can go for full burst and full absorb shield at the same time. So, effectively you could have only 13-15k HP + 10k HP, while having the same HP as players who renounced to have 3k-4k more damage on their spells by spell dmg.

This gap was created with 1.6. Most sorcerers are enjoying their max-dmg / max-shield build in PvP and the numerous "unwillingness to understand" is fully comprehensible. Nonetheless (beside all buffed stamina/HP-specs) we have other classes/specs in light armor which were hurt by 1.6. and JESUS-BEAM won't help at all.
As already happened very often, they nurfed templars more than buffing them. In front of the nurf-list stand: Radiant Aura and Blazing Shield, which was "acceptable" (to suck up one DD at least) and is now half the value of a 10k absorb shield, when going for spell dmg / magicka...

Going for max DD-damage has to come with a sacrifice, even for sorcerers! ;-)

I agree with a lot of this; but the irony is that in an attempt to address shield stacking; they hit the templars health based shield to make it require even more health to even absorb a single hit. WTF?!

Vis

Varicite wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Why is it there are players of *every* class out there who are just as powerful as me and can kill me as often as I kill them? There are DKs, Templar and Nightblades who I absolutely hate going up against on the field. This tell me that your 1 v 1 class balance exists, but there *is* a skill disparity. Instead of trying to fix your problems by bringing other classes down to your skill level (and thus screwing all the players of that class who are not exceptionally skilled) try bringing your skill level up to meet that of the opponents you're facing that you have difficulty with.

I kill shield stacking pure magicka sorcs *every day* in Cyrodiil. Some of them are my easiest kills! This is because the player makes the class, not the class makes the player.

What you seem to actually be talking about is "build disparity", not skill disparity (though obviously skill does play a factor a lot of the times).

Yes, builds that are designed for high burst damage can kill Sorcs. That wasn't really being questioned, though. You seem to be hung up on this idea that everyone is just tired of dying to Sorcs. For me, it's more of a balance issue.

Wrong on so many accounts. I am built for regen and that is how I kill sorcs. My dps sucks.

Also I sacrifice a ton for magicka. My hp is in one shot range. I am extremely susceptible to anyone who has figured out cc (which I guess you have not). Sorcs are the easiest class to counter. If you want some tips, feel free to message me.

Varicite

Vis wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Why is it there are players of *every* class out there who are just as powerful as me and can kill me as often as I kill them? There are DKs, Templar and Nightblades who I absolutely hate going up against on the field. This tell me that your 1 v 1 class balance exists, but there *is* a skill disparity. Instead of trying to fix your problems by bringing other classes down to your skill level (and thus screwing all the players of that class who are not exceptionally skilled) try bringing your skill level up to meet that of the opponents you're facing that you have difficulty with.

I kill shield stacking pure magicka sorcs *every day* in Cyrodiil. Some of them are my easiest kills! This is because the player makes the class, not the class makes the player.

What you seem to actually be talking about is "build disparity", not skill disparity (though obviously skill does play a factor a lot of the times).

Yes, builds that are designed for high burst damage can kill Sorcs. That wasn't really being questioned, though. You seem to be hung up on this idea that everyone is just tired of dying to Sorcs. For me, it's more of a balance issue.

Wrong on so many accounts. I am built for regen and that is how I kill sorcs. My dps sucks.

Also I sacrifice a ton for magicka. My hp is in one shot range. I am extremely susceptible to anyone who has figured out cc (which I guess you have not). Sorcs are the easiest class to counter. If you want some tips, feel free to message me.

Well, the classes I've been on most lately are my 2h redguard stamblade and breton sorc. I don't generally have a ton of problems w/ most Sorcs, and if I do get outplayed I can generally recognize what I've done wrong. I personally have my issues w/ more bursty stamina specs, so I wrongly assumed that's what it was. I apologize. : /

Like I've said a few times, my issue w/ Hardened Ward is more from a mechanical standpoint. It has nothing to do w/ having it out for Sorcs in particular, it's just the fact that they happen to be the only class that can stack a single resource for great damage and good defenses.

I disagree that heals are better than shields, as there is no "shield debuff" that's rampant everywhere you go, and shields buy you breathing room TO heal. They both work in tandem, obviously, but I don't think it's fair to downplay the value of that breathing room.

Snit

Derra wrote: »

Sorcs in particular, it's just the fact that they happen to be the only class that can stack a single resource for great damage and good defenses.

Other good defenses include the following:

- Heals (especially if you're a Templar)
- Dodge Roll
- Block

Note that all of those scale with either Magicka or Stamina. Almost everyone can stack a single resource for both DPS and Defense.

Ezareth

Soarin' wrote: »

Odd how people will claim balance in one thread and laugh at how powerful their skills are in another.

Ezareth wrote: »

I just stack shields + purge while standing in fire and laugh at all the puny NB corpses around me.

Congrats on failing to recognize recognize a troll attempt aimed at the very people complaining about stacking shields in this thread.

TBois

how a sorc 1v3 against players who play to the strength of being killed by a sorc (chasing). Sorc just streak streak streaking away. "Oh let's go after that sorc" streak streak, look to see if they are spread enough from to leave one Vulerable "oh my 2 buddies are a bit behind me." Burst dps.

How a dk 1v3 against players who play to the strength of a dk (by not creating some space. Talons whip whip whip. "Oh dk's almost dead" ultimate giving the dk back resources for more GDB.

Both are easily countered. Which one are you more afraid of?

I think people just get more frustrated when they die because they chased a sorc rather than because they didn't roll out of a standard.

Edit: frustrated with all the sorc QQ so I forgot about hardened ward but, these people who are complaining about the sorcs, do they know about CC against magicka classes?

Ezareth

Rule #1: Don't chase the sorc.

They should tattoo that on the asses of every new player entering Cyrodiil.

TBois

I guess people forgot after the third great streak nerf

TBois

It's ridiculous. We can't face tank like all the classes can develop a build for, despite how hard I try. We get some glimpses of that after this patch but it's still not there, Hence the prevalence of streak still. We are sub par dps in pve. This people are still calling for sorc nerfs?

Edit:So I have to come here and defend a skill I don't even frequently use cause ppl can't learn to stop chasing sorcs, and I'm getting as frustrated as the last time I was killed after chasing a magicka sorc as a Stam Sorc. Although with crit charge I kind love to chase em.

Vis

Ezareth wrote: »

Rule #1: Don't chase the sorc.

They should tattoo that on the asses of every new player entering Cyrodiil.

You're giving away the source of most of my kills. Even if it is strong players chasing me, I will double back and prey on their weak and young at the back of the pack.

Ezareth

Vis wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Rule #1: Don't chase the sorc.

They should tattoo that on the asses of every new player entering Cyrodiil.

You're giving away the source of most of my kills. Even if it is strong players chasing me, I will double back and prey on their weak and young at the back of the pack.

That's most of my kills as well.

Don't worry even if they had it tattoo'ed on their asses they would still do it. Hell I do it myself! There is something instinctual built in us to chase our prey when it flees. You just need to keep the hunted from becoming the hunter ( =

SafiyerAmitora

Ezareth wrote: »

Don't worry even if they had it tattoo'ed on their asses they would still do it. Hell I do it myself! There is something instinctual build in us to chase our prey when it flees. You just need to keep the hunted from becoming the hunter ( =

Chasing Sorcs sounds like fun. I should do it more often. ;o

Erock25

Francescolg wrote: »

It is funny, how people that actually don't play a healer come to the forums to explain, why their 10k shield is worth (so much) less than a heal... and everybody acts as if they wouldn't know that most, by a large number, most healers in PvP also use absorb shields or HoT mechanics or other self-defense mechanics in 1 on 1 situations (because of healing-debuffs, not beeing able to target single players, etc etc). These people, many of them writing here, also close their eyes in view of the changed conditions after this patch, specifically for healer-templars, whose survivability -beside casting healings/purge all day long- is very similar to a sorcerer (without a 10k shield, without a teleport, etc.). Casting heals for defense in 1 on 1 encounters is also no real option, because an absorb shield is way better in case of being CC'd and other emergencies and CC occurs all the time in PvP, left and right, and healing debuff about 30-50% is often seen.
So no, healers do not just heal themselfes in 1v1 but prefer an absorb shield (vs. snipe, etc etc). We also rely on light-armor, have very low resistances and no escape spell at all.

We are arguing about 1v1 encounters, which happen quite often these days, as I can witness, even in keep-fights or when surrounded by the crowd, 1 on 1-situations occur very often to me. This is why this game should also be balanced for 1on1 situations. I do not accept the hint for a "group based"-game, in the case of ESO this seems wrong!

In a game with only 4 classes (!) all PvP-balancing has to take into account a typical 1 vs. 1 situation (without ultimates).
In the specific case: DD Sorcerer (resto/destru) vs. Healer/DD/magicka-Templar (resto/destru) we have the problem that none of the templar's skills will do enough damage to break the sorc's shield fast enough to disable the sorcerer from reapplying it (when both players are at 100% HP). We could try with DoTs but most templars don't use them (reason 1: the 10% crit bonus of reflective light is also activated by magicka pots, etc. etc // reason 2: DoT damage is insignificant, Instants hurt much better). DoTs do not help us to get you shield down. CC will only help 2-3 seconds, By this time the templar will hardly get through your shield (1 cast - 8.000 dmg, 2 cast - may hit, meanwhile sorc breaks-free and reapplies the shield)

Beside all the math, magicka-templars have to choose whether we want to spec for damage (spell dmg) or defense (HP, etc.). Going for spell dmg will help us to fight sorcerers but leaves us with absolutely no usable absorb shield, while resto- or light armor-shields alone are worse than a decent absorb-shield, especially light-armor shields often don't help ++ players focus on skills which are not reflected by other skills / which are not absorbed by light-armor shield)

As a sorc you can go for full burst and full absorb shield at the same time. So, effectively you could have only 13-15k HP + 10k HP, while having the same HP as players who renounced to have 3k-4k more damage on their spells by spell dmg.

This gap was created with 1.6. Most sorcerers are enjoying their max-dmg / max-shield build in PvP and the numerous "unwillingness to understand" is fully comprehensible. Nonetheless (beside all buffed stamina/HP-specs) we have other classes/specs in light armor which were hurt by 1.6. and JESUS-BEAM won't help at all.
As already happened very often, they nurfed templars more than buffing them. In front of the nurf-list stand: Radiant Aura and Blazing Shield, which was "acceptable" (to suck up one DD at least) and is now half the value of a 10k absorb shield, when going for spell dmg / magicka...

Going for max DD-damage has to come with a sacrifice, even for sorcerers! ;-)

I fight many Templars who are nearly unkillable on my Sorc. Most of them are stamina based but I have encountered quite a few who were magicka based and I could not get past their defenses. I read what you wrote and understand what you are saying, but if you are a healing templar, you have to understand that you chose a build that brings tons of utility to THE GROUP. You should be comparing your heal/magicka/group oriented templar to a stamina Sorc, that can do very well but relies on his group for many things.

There are countless times I've ran into a well played Stam Templar that with a combination of dodging and whatever other skills he was using, could survive against me quite easily.

Your argument is basically game should be balanced around 1vs1 for the classes but I can pick and choose the strongest build from one class and put it up against the weakest 1vs1 build for another class and complain about it.

azoriangaming

taken from a previous post of mine

rdbrown1987 wrote: »
See I'd say yes they are too much if every class had a self heal like GDB or BoL etc but since they don't I think shields are just fine atm as they are.

XXXXXXX wrote: » Its the damage shields on sorcs that ppl are complaining about... not the shields in general

then yes I think the dmg shield in the sorc tree can create unfair advantage as now shields are recastable even before the previous shield has ended, do I think the shield on sorcs is needed due to lack of a heal in the sorc trees the answer is yes, do I think the shield is too large the answer is yes.

things zos could to make things better,
1, Cap the sorc shield to a certain percentage around the sames as the heals from GDB and BoL,
2, Make the shield so you can't cast until the previous one has fully ran out and if you do you waste magicka on the cast,

any other ideas put them in the post to make this a more constructive thread and they may actually do something.