Remove hardened ward

SafiyerAmitora

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Only issue with hardened ward is it should scale with health and not magicka.

Except that is a terrible idea.

Is everyone complaining about the Damage sorcs are doing? No. (At least I hope not).

What is the sorcs biggest issue right now? Survivability. And you want to significantly nerf our primary active defense to force us to lower our offense even further or lose more survivability. Got it.

Terrible idea.

Nefrast wrote: »

I need hardened ward for my solo PVE play. Without it I would not able to solo dolmens, bosses, public dungeons, you name it. All things I can solo with any other class too, either because they provide me with some monstrous defensive abilities or good healing. Without the shield spell my sorcerer would probably need to wear heavy armor and sword and board and play vastly differently than the play I enjoy with it - I'd rather stop playing him then instead of resorting to the same game play I already have with another class.

Exactly. Even without the Cyrodiil Shield nerf, in PvE I die more than any other class, I reguarly run grinds with a DK and he hasn't died once yet the moment I forget to constantly refresh my hardened ward (every other spell) I die.

These NBs crying in this thread have no concept of how it is to play a sorc in 1.6.

Itoq wrote: »

darkknightfkb16_ESO wrote: »

The difference with Temp and DK shields is that they need to pump huge amounts of points into health to get anywhere near the shield a sorc could get while maintaining a high magika pool. Temp for example needs 28000 hp just to get a 10k blazing shield when one enemy is in the 5m range, 8900 when no one is near to proc the extra 4%.

At 30 champion points in Bastion (Increases the effectiveness of shields) and while in Cyrodiil one would need 31250 health to get a 10k Blazing shield when adding in the 4% (x*(.2822+.04)=10,000).

Without the 4% one would need 35714 health to get a 10k blazing shield (x*.2822=10,000.) Not to mention that Blazing Shield also has a 70% less duration than Hardened Ward.

Did you account for the 10% Cyrodiil shield nerf?

Primary difference is blazing shield does actual *damage* and should be in no way compared to Hardened ward. Secondly templars have amazing class heals and a heal in many ways is better than a shield because health damage benefits from passive mitigation, shield damage does not. Healing someone's health for 10K in reality works out to about 12-20K in extra base damage that play can absorb. Casting a 10K shield shield can only absorb exactly 10K in damage.

TheBull wrote: »

Imho Ward is a great skill it offers sorcerers a lot of stat allocation diversity. It shouldn't be removed.


That being said, it last too long. The duration needs to be much shorter. Also, right now it prevents stuns and knock backs this needs to be fixed.

The amount of disinformation and completely ignorance in this thread is astounding. We basically have the same people reiterating the same points over and over and not a single one of them has any credibility in PvP other than they want to play an LoLSniper and 1shot people.

Of course you guys want hardened ward with a shorter duration. You're tired of waiting 20 seconds to get that 1-shot snipe in. We get it.

I've been editing video for my next PvP video and I'm putting together a compilation of LOLSnipes where a single player kills me from 100% health and full shields to death in 1 second or less.

This is the kind of gameplay you guys are pushing for. It involves no skill whatsoever, just the press of a button and an AP Pinata(Sorc).

Said it better than I could ever put it. Though there's two things I must point out... One of my mains is a DK, and I'm staying the s&b/resto tank that I've always been, and I find the more drawn-out battles where the enemy stands a chance more appealing than 1-shotting those who didn't know what hit them. So not all of us on here wanna be snipers, you can count on that! Another is that my other main is a NB, but I have tried out Sorc and I must say that my Stam nb (no self-heals other than pots and refreshing) has much better survivability than my still-and-will-stay magicka Sorc ever had. Although nb's could use a bit of help (fixing cloak, for instance), Sorcs need it soo much more than we do. The flood of nerfs Sorcs are getting needs to stop. I don't play the class very much, but the things I've heard from MANY Sorcs sparked my desire to defend them. I hope I'm not the only non-Sorc supporting them.

Skafsgaard

Varicite wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

So to point out my idea again; what do you think of a purge/cleanse type of spell - but aimed (either single target or AoE type) that simply removes magickal buffs from the target?

This would be a way to deal with all the buff stacking, and make people think twice before zerg divining (if that's a thing anymore). It would allow for some crazy strong ass shields, since they can be DISPELLED. Healers/support would get to do other stuff than healing, since debuffing enemies would be important aspect of the game. Now only way to remove shields is damaging them, and in any kind of games Ive played with shields, another removal option is necessary.

So, like or no like?

I've suggested this in the past, actually. It wasn't very well received, lol.

When I suggested it, it was actually for a class ability for NBs to replace Cloak though, so I can understand why people would naturally dislike the idea. <.<

Well, if we have a dispell I really dont think it should be class specific. Or all should have their own. Ideally I would see it in the support tree in the alliance war though - dispel magic / and or mass dispel.



@Ezareth , first of all you cant compare shield vs. heal. And the way you choose to present it is simply just fail. If a heal couldnt be debuffed, or if the target was always in med/heavy - you make these assumptions. LA templar doesnt benefit of the heal in the way you make it to be waay superior than a shield. Trust me, as a templar, if im reach the 20% hp zone - what do you think I cast, a heal or a shield? Shield is obvious, it elimnate executes/crits, i dont have to cast purify to get the healdebuff off first.

So, in some circumstances yes, a heal is more powerful/the better option, sometimes the shield is. If you try to make a heal > shield in PvP I think you misunderstand some basic concepts. It appears however, that you are rather quite good at this game - so stop lying and remove your blinkers and please dont stoop so low.

There are many points in which I agree with you, high damage lolshots etc - its not happening to a sorc only. He just has superior defense against as compared to other LA user (so I havent played NB LA a lot and not v14 on alt and no DK either), and that basically comes down to strong shield + quick mobility. Im not saying you shouldnt have and ***, you just have better ways to deal with stam users than others in LA. But yea, PvP in this game is now so bad (mechanics + lag) and with p2w potion I dont really have the zeal to try and convince others of my views on some skills or what not. I do think dispel magic would solve a lot of this stuff, though. But I dont really trust any fixes from ZoS and so I probably would prefer they just left it as is.

Edit: I always unstealth and light attack an enemy, inviting to fight rather that quick turbo gank combo. Im a LA templar and probably shouldnt do that, but that is how I like to fight - maybe if a good friend/ally is going for Emp i will organize a little ganking, but that's ok too

Varicite

Snit wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

... (a bunch of stuff about NB's vs Sorcs)

I understand Magicka NB's are glassy and less survivable than sorcs. But, "there's one spec that's even worse" is not very helpful. I'm tired of NB's and Sorcs competing to see who's not last at everything.

The relevant comparison is to DK's and Templars. You benchmark against the best.

And I did exactly that.

Make Hardened Ward scale from health, exactly like DKs and Templars.

Give NBs a class shield too that scales from health. Not sure how this isn't exactly what you said.

Snit

Varicite wrote: »

And I did exactly that.

Make Hardened Ward scale from health, exactly like DKs and Templars.

Give NBs a class shield too that scales from health. Not sure how this isn't exactly what you said.

You're hung up on making Sorc shields work the same way DK and Templar shields do. Can we also make Sorc heals work the same way DK and Templar spell reflect and heals operate?

Survivability isn't one ability. Sorcs are much more dependent on their shields, as it's our only real defense (other than fleeing, which is not the same as winning).

Varicite

Derra wrote: »

Nightblades in light armor still have cloak and even in the case of a detect pot cloak gives an 1s evade window against evadable dmg - so when spammend you won´t be hit even being detected the whole time.

You can do the exact same thing w/ Bolt Escape. It acts very much like a magicka-based dodge roll if used to reposition and reopen. It just can't be endlessly spammed (but still spammed a good bit). Only you still have Hardened Ward on top of that.

And you don't even need a detect pot to break Cloak, it breaks itself when you most need it often enough.

I did try to steer this topic back toward Sorcs themselves, btw, but people keep talking about NBs. I'm happy enough to oblige them if they want to keep comparing.

I understand people don't want to hear "O WOE IS ME" from any class, but in a conversation about how Sorcerer's ABSOLUTELY NEED A HUGE SHIELD THAT SCALES FROM THEIR MAIN RESOURCE, BUT NOBODY ELSE NEEDS ANYTHING LIKE THAT, I'm going to bring up a class that is in a very similar situation w/out a shield.

If you can't acknowledge a NB need for a shield, then I can't possibly acknowledge that Sorcs need one. They're far too similar in LA for me to ever believe that what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

Pancake-Tragedy

Varicite wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

... (a bunch of stuff about NB's vs Sorcs)

I understand Magicka NB's are glassy and less survivable than sorcs. But, "there's one spec that's even worse" is not very helpful. I'm tired of NB's and Sorcs competing to see who's not last at everything.

The relevant comparison is to DK's and Templars. You benchmark against the best.

And I did exactly that.

Make Hardened Ward scale from health, exactly like DKs and Templars.

Give NBs a class shield too that scales from health. Not sure how this isn't exactly what you said.

Yeah, let's just homogenize the game and eliminate any class diversity! I agree that NBs are in a situation where they definitely need some form of in-combat sustain, but trying to get sorcs nerfed down to NB levels isn't the right way to go about doing it, in my opinion.

On the topic about dispels: I think that a dispel would be a great idea that would fit well in one of the alliance war skill lines, but they shouldn't only be limited to dispelling shields.

Snit

Varicite wrote: »

I understand people don't want to hear "O WOE IS ME" from any class, but in a conversation about how Sorcerer's ABSOLUTELY NEED A HUGE SHIELD THAT SCALES FROM THEIR MAIN RESOURCE, BUT NOBODY ELSE NEEDS ANYTHING .

Other classes have the same thing: Defenses that scale from their primary resource. Templars are the most obvious example. Their heals and their Jesus Beam both scale from Max Magicka or Spell Damage. Survivability and Killing use the same stats.

It's also true of every stamina build. Dodge rolling becomes increasingly powerful with Champ Points. Stamina builds can dodge roll more often. We're already seeing builds that can Dodge Roll quite a lot, and this trend will increase. Wait until people unlock Tactician

TheBull

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Imho Ward is a great skill it offers sorcerers a lot of stat allocation diversity. It shouldn't be removed.


That being said, it last too long. The duration needs to be much shorter. Also, right now it prevents stuns and knock backs this needs to be fixed.

The amount of disinformation and completely ignorance in this thread is astounding. We basically have the same people reiterating the same points over and over and not a single one of them has any credibility in PvP other than they want to play an LoLSniper and 1shot people.

Of course you guys want hardened ward with a shorter duration. You're tired of waiting 20 seconds to get that 1-shot snipe in. We get it.

I've been editing video for my next PvP video and I'm putting together a compilation of LOLSnipes where a single player kills me from 100% health and full shields to death in 1 second or less.

This is the kind of gameplay you guys are pushing for. It involves no skill whatsoever, just the press of a button and an AP Pinata(Sorc).

I'm not sure why you quoted what I said and linked it to people who snipe. I do not snipe.

I think it's a great skill. I just don't think any class should walk around with an immovable buff that adds 15k+ effective health up at all times. Are you denying that Ward prevents stuns, knock backs, some snares, and most secondary weapon effects?

Like I said I have no problem with sorcerers having a shield or the way it scales. The duration and CC immunity needs to be looked at though.

Cinnamon_Spider

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Imho Ward is a great skill it offers sorcerers a lot of stat allocation diversity. It shouldn't be removed.


That being said, it last too long. The duration needs to be much shorter. Also, right now it prevents stuns and knock backs this needs to be fixed.

The amount of disinformation and completely ignorance in this thread is astounding. We basically have the same people reiterating the same points over and over and not a single one of them has any credibility in PvP other than they want to play an LoLSniper and 1shot people.

Of course you guys want hardened ward with a shorter duration. You're tired of waiting 20 seconds to get that 1-shot snipe in. We get it.

I've been editing video for my next PvP video and I'm putting together a compilation of LOLSnipes where a single player kills me from 100% health and full shields to death in 1 second or less.

This is the kind of gameplay you guys are pushing for. It involves no skill whatsoever, just the press of a button and an AP Pinata(Sorc).

I'm not sure why you quoted what I said and linked it to people who snipe. I do not snipe.

I think it's a great skill. I just don't think any class should walk around with an immovable buff that adds 15k+ effective health up at all times. Are you denying that Ward prevents stuns, knock backs, some snares, and most secondary weapon effects?

Like I said I have no problem with sorcerers having a shield or the way it scales. The duration and CC immunity needs to be looked at though.

What are you even going on about? Hardened ward does none of these things you claim and I do not know anyone that has a 15k ward in PvP.

Varicite

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

... (a bunch of stuff about NB's vs Sorcs)

I understand Magicka NB's are glassy and less survivable than sorcs. But, "there's one spec that's even worse" is not very helpful. I'm tired of NB's and Sorcs competing to see who's not last at everything.

The relevant comparison is to DK's and Templars. You benchmark against the best.

And I did exactly that.

Make Hardened Ward scale from health, exactly like DKs and Templars.

Give NBs a class shield too that scales from health. Not sure how this isn't exactly what you said.

Yeah, let's just homogenize the game and eliminate any class diversity! I agree that NBs are in a situation where they definitely need some form of in-combat sustain, but trying to get sorcs nerfed down to NB levels isn't the right way to go about doing it, in my opinion.

On the topic about dispels: I think that a dispel would be a great idea that would fit well in one of the alliance war skill lines, but they shouldn't only be limited to dispelling shields.

I never said to nerf Sorcs down to NB level. I said to bring them in line w/ every other class.

If you're talking about "homogenization" because I said to give NBs a class shield, 3/4 classes already have class shields.

Class shields are already homogenized, only 1 class has been entirely left out. That's fixing balance, not destroying diversity.

I'm not a fan of leaving classes mechanically broken or inconsistent because of some unfounded fear of "homogenization".

TheBull

dont post and pvp at the sametime...

TheBull

double

TheBull

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

What are you even going on about? Hardened ward does none of these things you claim and I do not know anyone that has a 15k ward in PvP.

You may not know, but it does everything I said.

eliisra

TheBull wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

What are you even going on about? Hardened ward does none of these things you claim and I do not know anyone that has a 15k ward in PvP.

You may not know, but it does everything I said.

Ward does not grant you immunity to snare, immobilize and cc. That would be like a cheap long duration Immovable and such a thing would never exist, since ZoS wants us all the be cc'ed every 10 sec in PvP. So I'm a bit confused. How do you mean?

Is it something related to sneak bow attacks on shields perhaps? Shield up prevents a stealth crit as far as I'm aware. Does it also prevent the stun?

Snit

TheBull wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

What are you even going on about? Hardened ward does none of these things you claim and I do not know anyone that has a 15k ward in PvP.

You may not know, but it does everything I said.

No, it really doesn't, other than a few possibly bugged abilities (which I believe Sypher highlighted). You can absolutely get CC'd through a Ward. Stunned, knocked down, immobilized, etc.

And 15k? LOL.

Cinnamon_Spider

TheBull wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

What are you even going on about? Hardened ward does none of these things you claim and I do not know anyone that has a 15k ward in PvP.

You may not know, but it does everything I said.

The only thing it does is absorb damage up to the amount the shield is able to cover. With all of my points put into magic and all enchants in magic, mine is just over 10k in PvP. I regularly take single hits in that amount and higher.

Most of the other sorcs I play with have higher health pools, lower magic pools, and therefore a smaller ward strength.

Itoq

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Without the 4% one would need 35714 health to get a 10k blazing shield (x*.2822=10,000.) Not to mention that Blazing Shield also has a 70% less duration than Hardened Ward.

Primary difference is blazing shield does actual *damage* and should be in no way compared to Hardened ward. Secondly templars have amazing class heals and a heal in many ways is better than a shield because health damage benefits from passive mitigation, shield damage does not. Healing someone's health for 10K in reality works out to about 12-20K in extra base damage that play can absorb. Casting a 10K shield shield can only absorb exactly 10K in damage.

If we want to get creative with numbers (12-20k) a 10k shield can absorb 15k, yeah?

Skafsgaard has already addressed shields vs. heals. The main difference to me is that one is primarily reactionary (not counting HOTs) and the other is essentially what pre-casting was in UO. Shields allow you to do other stuff like deal damage or heal up while it does its job. For straight up medium and long term survivability and for flexibility shields are much stronger.

And I agree that it is difficult to compare the two shields. One has a 233% longer duration (6 sec vs 20) and is roughly 70% stronger (6k vs 10k.) One returns point blank damage and the other does not. Wait - did we just compare them?

The real issues with pvp don't mainly lie in one shield or another though. I think they mainly lie with the synergies that active and passive skills have for classes and with the vast differences in TTK.

Derra

TheBull wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

What are you even going on about? Hardened ward does none of these things you claim and I do not know anyone that has a 15k ward in PvP.

You may not know, but it does everything I said.

You´re missinformed.

You can get snared, stunned and rooted through hardened and empowered ward. Harness magica on the other hand prevents knockbacks (or atleast the destructive reach one) which is a bug.

Ezareth

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

So to point out my idea again; what do you think of a purge/cleanse type of spell - but aimed (either single target or AoE type) that simply removes magickal buffs from the target?

This would be a way to deal with all the buff stacking, and make people think twice before zerg divining (if that's a thing anymore). It would allow for some crazy strong ass shields, since they can be DISPELLED. Healers/support would get to do other stuff than healing, since debuffing enemies would be important aspect of the game. Now only way to remove shields is damaging them, and in any kind of games Ive played with shields, another removal option is necessary.

So, like or no like?

I've suggested this in the past, actually. It wasn't very well received, lol.

When I suggested it, it was actually for a class ability for NBs to replace Cloak though, so I can understand why people would naturally dislike the idea. <.<

@Ezareth , first of all you cant compare shield vs. heal. And the way you choose to present it is simply just fail. If a heal couldnt be debuffed, or if the target was always in med/heavy - you make these assumptions. LA templar doesnt benefit of the heal in the way you make it to be waay superior than a shield. Trust me, as a templar, if im reach the 20% hp zone - what do you think I cast, a heal or a shield? Shield is obvious, it elimnate executes/crits, i dont have to cast purify to get the healdebuff off first.

So, in some circumstances yes, a heal is more powerful/the better option, sometimes the shield is. If you try to make a heal > shield in PvP I think you misunderstand some basic concepts. It appears however, that you are rather quite good at this game - so stop lying and remove your blinkers and please dont stoop so low.

If you had read exactly what I wrote you'd see I said "a heal in many ways is better than a shield". The way I presented it wasn't "fail" in any way shape or form. Notice the math I said was 12-20K where a damage shield was 10K. The 12K was speaking of light armor, and the 20K was speaking of Heavy armor with maximum mitigation (50% mitigation in effect doubles the value of a heal).

The two things can't be compared directly because they're intrinsically different but I said in many ways a heal is better and it is. In other ways a shield is better. A heal can't be cast when your target is already at 100% life. A heal can be debuffed but a shield can't. However a shield also must constantly be refreshed and not when it has been fully pierced due to the bug with overbleed so often I'm refreshing my shield after each hit it takes. Heals also benefit from far more passives and synergies compared to none that you get with shields.

My point wasn't to compare heals and shields, but to demonstrate the difference between Templars and Sorcs for the ridiculous comparisons people keep throwing up there about blazing shield and the fact it is based off of health and that somehow sorcs shields should follow that same example...just because. A sorc is not a Templar is not a nightblade. Not to sound like Captain Obvious here but it seems you people are really forgetting that in your desire to make the classes somehow homogeneous.

Ezareth

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Imho Ward is a great skill it offers sorcerers a lot of stat allocation diversity. It shouldn't be removed.


That being said, it last too long. The duration needs to be much shorter. Also, right now it prevents stuns and knock backs this needs to be fixed.

The amount of disinformation and completely ignorance in this thread is astounding. We basically have the same people reiterating the same points over and over and not a single one of them has any credibility in PvP other than they want to play an LoLSniper and 1shot people.

Of course you guys want hardened ward with a shorter duration. You're tired of waiting 20 seconds to get that 1-shot snipe in. We get it.

I've been editing video for my next PvP video and I'm putting together a compilation of LOLSnipes where a single player kills me from 100% health and full shields to death in 1 second or less.

This is the kind of gameplay you guys are pushing for. It involves no skill whatsoever, just the press of a button and an AP Pinata(Sorc).

I'm not sure why you quoted what I said and linked it to people who snipe. I do not snipe.

I think it's a great skill. I just don't think any class should walk around with an immovable buff that adds 15k+ effective health up at all times. Are you denying that Ward prevents stuns, knock backs, some snares, and most secondary weapon effects?

Like I said I have no problem with sorcerers having a shield or the way it scales. The duration and CC immunity needs to be looked at though.

@TheBull I quoted followed by "The amount of disinformation and complete ignorance in this thread is astounding."

That was directed at your quote. To anyone who PvPs it is obvious that Hardened Ward does *not* " prevents stuns and knock backs"

The fact that you and so many other people in this thread are speaking about how this ability is so powerful when you guys obviously don't understand many of the mechanics in the game and PvP is pretty damn scary to me which is why I made the notes that I don't see anyone notable in PvP in here complaining about hardened ward. That isn't a dig or insult at you guys but an honest observation from someone who has some pretty damn good understanding of how mechanics work in this game and how best to maximize my performance through utilizing them properly.

Frankly I feel I've spent far too much of my time debating with people who have no interested in learning or understanding anything in their blind pursuit of calling for a nerf on a class because they're having difficulty killing that class in PvP.

I actually had some DK (who was actually very skilled) bitching at me last night) telling me I was "cheesing" by attacking him from the center of my minefield. When I tried questioning the validity of his opinion by asking him what else should I do to fight a DK with a 2 hander who has reflective scales and invasion spams me constantly. He told me to "use a weapon like a real man". That's just the kind of logic it feels like I'm dealing with here and it's rather frustrating.

Ezareth

Itoq wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Without the 4% one would need 35714 health to get a 10k blazing shield (x*.2822=10,000.) Not to mention that Blazing Shield also has a 70% less duration than Hardened Ward.

Primary difference is blazing shield does actual *damage* and should be in no way compared to Hardened ward. Secondly templars have amazing class heals and a heal in many ways is better than a shield because health damage benefits from passive mitigation, shield damage does not. Healing someone's health for 10K in reality works out to about 12-20K in extra base damage that play can absorb. Casting a 10K shield shield can only absorb exactly 10K in damage.

If we want to get creative with numbers (12-20k) a 10k shield can absorb 15k, yeah?

Skafsgaard has already addressed shields vs. heals. The main difference to me is that one is primarily reactionary (not counting HOTs) and the other is essentially what pre-casting was in UO. Shields allow you to do other stuff like deal damage or heal up while it does its job. For straight up medium and long term survivability and for flexibility shields are much stronger.

And I agree that it is difficult to compare the two shields. One has a 233% longer duration (6 sec vs 20) and is roughly 70% stronger (6k vs 10k.) One returns point blank damage and the other does not. Wait - did we just compare them?

The real issues with pvp don't mainly lie in one shield or another though. I think they mainly lie with the synergies that active and passive skills have for classes and with the vast differences in TTK.

A 10K shield can't absorb 15K if you're talking about crits. The 10K base hit would go through the shield and the crit would still land (for maximum unmitigated damage) on the user.

Regardless these abilities are very different. The "10K" shield you speak of is actually far less, it is only the morph that gives you +33% increase in the shield that makes is 10K. The templar comparable is Radiant Ward Not blazing shield if you want to give a more equal comparison but you guys don't.

Regardless the shields are very different, the classes are very different and they *should* be.

Skafsgaard

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Imho Ward is a great skill it offers sorcerers a lot of stat allocation diversity. It shouldn't be removed.


That being said, it last too long. The duration needs to be much shorter. Also, right now it prevents stuns and knock backs this needs to be fixed.

The amount of disinformation and completely ignorance in this thread is astounding. We basically have the same people reiterating the same points over and over and not a single one of them has any credibility in PvP other than they want to play an LoLSniper and 1shot people.

Of course you guys want hardened ward with a shorter duration. You're tired of waiting 20 seconds to get that 1-shot snipe in. We get it.

I've been editing video for my next PvP video and I'm putting together a compilation of LOLSnipes where a single player kills me from 100% health and full shields to death in 1 second or less.

This is the kind of gameplay you guys are pushing for. It involves no skill whatsoever, just the press of a button and an AP Pinata(Sorc).

I'm not sure why you quoted what I said and linked it to people who snipe. I do not snipe.

I think it's a great skill. I just don't think any class should walk around with an immovable buff that adds 15k+ effective health up at all times. Are you denying that Ward prevents stuns, knock backs, some snares, and most secondary weapon effects?

Like I said I have no problem with sorcerers having a shield or the way it scales. The duration and CC immunity needs to be looked at though.

@TheBull I quoted followed by "The amount of disinformation and complete ignorance in this thread is astounding."

That was directed at your quote. To anyone who PvPs it is obvious that Hardened Ward does *not* " prevents stuns and knock backs"

The fact that you and so many other people in this thread are speaking about how this ability is so powerful when you guys obviously don't understand many of the mechanics in the game and PvP is pretty damn scary to me which is why I made the notes that I don't see anyone notable in PvP in here complaining about hardened ward. That isn't a dig or insult at you guys but an honest observation from someone who has some pretty damn good understanding of how mechanics work in this game and how best to maximize my performance through utilizing them properly.

Frankly I feel I've spent far too much of my time debating with people who have no interested in learning or understanding anything in their blind pursuit of calling for a nerf on a class because they're having difficulty killing that class in PvP.

I actually had some DK (who was actually very skilled) bitching at me last night) telling me I was "cheesing" by attacking him from the center of my minefield. When I tried questioning the validity of his opinion by asking him what else should I do to fight a DK with a 2 hander who has reflective scales and invasion spams me constantly. He told me to "use a weapon like a real man". That's just the kind of logic it feels like I'm dealing with here and it's rather frustrating.

I know how you feel - and your points also come across. Well, maybe the solution is to make morphs of other class shields to scale from other stuff than HP? And with the amount of damage flying around these days, a heal has to be recast. You must also understand that I actually completely agree with you, in that each class should be unique and his/her own moves or ways of dealing with a paritular situation - after all, a main is only interesting for so long and alts is the replayability of MMOs. But I also feel, and this as someone has pointed out, not necessarily a "sorc" problem as such - but rather a way in which removal of softcaps and possible a number of other minor 'tweaks' simply make a magicka build sorc better post patch than prepatch (in this regard). All is not deaf and everyone dont want nerfs for nerfs sake - i prefer adjustments as a nerf will "generally speaking" contribute more to the game than was it not made (unless THIS IS an EXAMPLE of *perceived OP class/build' dunmer dk vamp, or breton/highelf sorc. Having these genereic builds (im not callning you genereic ) 70% of your PvP encounters is tedious and will for some people result in a reroll to perceived OP class. Now wheter it IS op or not is something MMO'ers will never agree (i silently (for the majoirty of time) followed WoW forum and I know what you are trying to fight / is up against.

Oops, forgot say what I actually wanted to say. A thank you for taking your time replying in a senisble and very respectful manner!

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

How about this as a glass canon Nightblade I trade armor for power cause I shealth so much anyways and hit from the shadows making me squishy if I want more survivability I wear heavy if you want to run with 15k 28k magic 7LA you Damn well should have to keep a shield up you put it all in magic and wear no armor the he'll do you expect

Ezareth

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Imho Ward is a great skill it offers sorcerers a lot of stat allocation diversity. It shouldn't be removed.


That being said, it last too long. The duration needs to be much shorter. Also, right now it prevents stuns and knock backs this needs to be fixed.

The amount of disinformation and completely ignorance in this thread is astounding. We basically have the same people reiterating the same points over and over and not a single one of them has any credibility in PvP other than they want to play an LoLSniper and 1shot people.

Of course you guys want hardened ward with a shorter duration. You're tired of waiting 20 seconds to get that 1-shot snipe in. We get it.

I've been editing video for my next PvP video and I'm putting together a compilation of LOLSnipes where a single player kills me from 100% health and full shields to death in 1 second or less.

This is the kind of gameplay you guys are pushing for. It involves no skill whatsoever, just the press of a button and an AP Pinata(Sorc).

I'm not sure why you quoted what I said and linked it to people who snipe. I do not snipe.

I think it's a great skill. I just don't think any class should walk around with an immovable buff that adds 15k+ effective health up at all times. Are you denying that Ward prevents stuns, knock backs, some snares, and most secondary weapon effects?

Like I said I have no problem with sorcerers having a shield or the way it scales. The duration and CC immunity needs to be looked at though.

@TheBull I quoted followed by "The amount of disinformation and complete ignorance in this thread is astounding."

That was directed at your quote. To anyone who PvPs it is obvious that Hardened Ward does *not* " prevents stuns and knock backs"

The fact that you and so many other people in this thread are speaking about how this ability is so powerful when you guys obviously don't understand many of the mechanics in the game and PvP is pretty damn scary to me which is why I made the notes that I don't see anyone notable in PvP in here complaining about hardened ward. That isn't a dig or insult at you guys but an honest observation from someone who has some pretty damn good understanding of how mechanics work in this game and how best to maximize my performance through utilizing them properly.

Frankly I feel I've spent far too much of my time debating with people who have no interested in learning or understanding anything in their blind pursuit of calling for a nerf on a class because they're having difficulty killing that class in PvP.

I actually had some DK (who was actually very skilled) bitching at me last night) telling me I was "cheesing" by attacking him from the center of my minefield. When I tried questioning the validity of his opinion by asking him what else should I do to fight a DK with a 2 hander who has reflective scales and invasion spams me constantly. He told me to "use a weapon like a real man". That's just the kind of logic it feels like I'm dealing with here and it's rather frustrating.

I know how you feel - and your points also come across. Well, maybe the solution is to make morphs of other class shields to scale from other stuff than HP? And with the amount of damage flying around these days, a heal has to be recast. You must also understand that I actually completely agree with you, in that each class should be unique and his/her own moves or ways of dealing with a paritular situation - after all, a main is only interesting for so long and alts is the replayability of MMOs. But I also feel, and this as someone has pointed out, not necessarily a "sorc" problem as such - but rather a way in which removal of softcaps and possible a number of other minor 'tweaks' simply make a magicka build sorc better post patch than prepatch (in this regard). All is not deaf and everyone dont want nerfs for nerfs sake - i prefer adjustments as a nerf will "generally speaking" contribute more to the game than was it not made (unless THIS IS an EXAMPLE of *perceived OP class/build' dunmer dk vamp, or breton/highelf sorc. Having these genereic builds (im not callning you genereic ) 70% of your PvP encounters is tedious and will for some people result in a reroll to perceived OP class. Now wheter it IS op or not is something MMO'ers will never agree (i silently (for the majoirty of time) followed WoW forum and I know what you are trying to fight / is up against.

Oops, forgot say what I actually wanted to say. A thank you for taking your time replying in a senisble and very respectful manner!

I hear you and appreciate the objectivity. The are far far more broken things in this game from a balance standpoint that need addressed far before someone should be looking at shields. That's just what is getting to me. Yes the removal of softcaps and the subsequent multiplication of everything by (Rougly) 10 really made some imbalances come to the front.

I honestly think they need to put the +50% bonus back to health which would solve many of these problems. DK and Templar shields would be much larger, the TTK on players would shrink and it wouldn't make as much sense for a sorc to put all of their points into magicka at the expense of health. It would solve so many problems and unless there was some PvE reason for it I have no idea why they thought nerfing health was a good idea.

Erock25

I can't believe I just learned my shield prevents me from being CC'd.... who knew?

Silverminken

Varicite wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

... (a bunch of stuff about NB's vs Sorcs)

I understand Magicka NB's are glassy and less survivable than sorcs. But, "there's one spec that's even worse" is not very helpful. I'm tired of NB's and Sorcs competing to see who's not last at everything.

The relevant comparison is to DK's and Templars. You benchmark against the best.

And I did exactly that.

Make Hardened Ward scale from health, exactly like DKs and Templars.

Give NBs a class shield too that scales from health. Not sure how this isn't exactly what you said.

Yeah, let's just homogenize the game and eliminate any class diversity! I agree that NBs are in a situation where they definitely need some form of in-combat sustain, but trying to get sorcs nerfed down to NB levels isn't the right way to go about doing it, in my opinion.

On the topic about dispels: I think that a dispel would be a great idea that would fit well in one of the alliance war skill lines, but they shouldn't only be limited to dispelling shields.

I never said to nerf Sorcs down to NB level. I said to bring them in line w/ every other class.

If you're talking about "homogenization" because I said to give NBs a class shield, 3/4 classes already have class shields.

Class shields are already homogenized, only 1 class has been entirely left out. That's fixing balance, not destroying diversity.

I'm not a fan of leaving classes mechanically broken or inconsistent because of some unfounded fear of "homogenization".

So we should align all CLASS shields to the same?

So we do the Ward to be scaling of Helth.


AND

remove the reflection property from reflective scales of DK's

AND

we remove the damage from Templars shields aswell...

AND

And now we need to give an equal, crappy shield as a class skill to NB's



How does that sound for aligning all the shields?

Because I cannot see how YOUR suggestion is going to align class shields... Or did you miss to add a DAMAGE component to the sorcerer shield (and NB)? so that is get on pair with DK's and Templars shields in that regard?




On to the other really strange suggestion by you, "the dispel", by its name, it is clearly only targeting magicka abilities... So what about Stamina abilities? What do you suggest as alignment for those? Sorcerers have their Ultimate "silence", that stopped Magicka based abilities from working when inside the bubble... BUT it still allowed all the Stamina based abilities to work! How come no silence for Stamina? And you could break free from the silence, while still INSIDE the bubble! and you could also use a stamina based ability for this! Immovable! And you where only stopped from doing ground-based magicka now.... but everything else works. How many other ultimate abilities can you stand INSIDE the target zone and avoid the effect with a single break free?


And since we are about to align stuff here, perhaps wee should ADD an internal cool down to ALL class abilities that provides healing! just as the Surge for Sorcerer received. So that any class based self healing is turned into mostly useless trickle of health. I do understand that pre-nerf, Critical Surge was very powerful in PvE, but very rarely used in PvP due to use of Impenetrable trait, that stopped Critical Hits from happening! (except for certain NB's attacks... go figure on that one), so basically not a working self heal in PvP for Sorcerer's....

Before I was strongest in PvE (Critical surge was very strong), and weaker in PvP (mostly useless Critical Surge, so had to change to using shields)! Now in 1.6, I'm strongest in PvP and alot weaker in PvE! stuff that I easily could do solo on 1.5 is now alot harder in 1.6, even with shield stacking... which now has become a must have, EVERYWHERE! So where is the alignment on this issue? Also my health is also significant lower in PvE than in PvP! Due to the basic boost every player get when entering Cyrodiil.


On the "alignment" topic, what kind of creatures should the other classes be able to summon? If we are to align skills across the classes to work "similar", then all classes should be able to summon creatures! or am I missing something here?

Oh, and all classes should be able to hide in the shadows like the NB's with a class skill...



It is pretty obvious that your "alignment" suggestions are only camouflaged suggestions to further nerf Sorcerers. But assume a change happens, Ward scales of Health instead, and made the ward be 9k when having minimum attributes put into health, and every attribute points and every health glyphs/set bonuses increased that value? What have you accomplished then?

TheBull

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Imho Ward is a great skill it offers sorcerers a lot of stat allocation diversity. It shouldn't be removed.


That being said, it last too long. The duration needs to be much shorter. Also, right now it prevents stuns and knock backs this needs to be fixed.

The amount of disinformation and completely ignorance in this thread is astounding. We basically have the same people reiterating the same points over and over and not a single one of them has any credibility in PvP other than they want to play an LoLSniper and 1shot people.

Of course you guys want hardened ward with a shorter duration. You're tired of waiting 20 seconds to get that 1-shot snipe in. We get it.

I've been editing video for my next PvP video and I'm putting together a compilation of LOLSnipes where a single player kills me from 100% health and full shields to death in 1 second or less.

This is the kind of gameplay you guys are pushing for. It involves no skill whatsoever, just the press of a button and an AP Pinata(Sorc).

I'm not sure why you quoted what I said and linked it to people who snipe. I do not snipe.

I think it's a great skill. I just don't think any class should walk around with an immovable buff that adds 15k+ effective health up at all times. Are you denying that Ward prevents stuns, knock backs, some snares, and most secondary weapon effects?

Like I said I have no problem with sorcerers having a shield or the way it scales. The duration and CC immunity needs to be looked at though.

@TheBull I quoted followed by "The amount of disinformation and complete ignorance in this thread is astounding."

That was directed at your quote. To anyone who PvPs it is obvious that Hardened Ward does *not* " prevents stuns and knock backs"

The fact that you and so many other people in this thread are speaking about how this ability is so powerful when you guys obviously don't understand many of the mechanics in the game and PvP is pretty damn scary to me which is why I made the notes that I don't see anyone notable in PvP in here complaining about hardened ward.

Hold on man are you saying Ward does not prevent sneak attack stun, an entire game mechanic? Stuns from surprise attack? Immobilize from cripple?

Anyone notable? Dude you are delusional.

Again like I said, ward is a great skill. It just last too long and should not grant CC immunity.

Ezareth

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Imho Ward is a great skill it offers sorcerers a lot of stat allocation diversity. It shouldn't be removed.


That being said, it last too long. The duration needs to be much shorter. Also, right now it prevents stuns and knock backs this needs to be fixed.

The amount of disinformation and completely ignorance in this thread is astounding. We basically have the same people reiterating the same points over and over and not a single one of them has any credibility in PvP other than they want to play an LoLSniper and 1shot people.

Of course you guys want hardened ward with a shorter duration. You're tired of waiting 20 seconds to get that 1-shot snipe in. We get it.

I've been editing video for my next PvP video and I'm putting together a compilation of LOLSnipes where a single player kills me from 100% health and full shields to death in 1 second or less.

This is the kind of gameplay you guys are pushing for. It involves no skill whatsoever, just the press of a button and an AP Pinata(Sorc).

I'm not sure why you quoted what I said and linked it to people who snipe. I do not snipe.

I think it's a great skill. I just don't think any class should walk around with an immovable buff that adds 15k+ effective health up at all times. Are you denying that Ward prevents stuns, knock backs, some snares, and most secondary weapon effects?

Like I said I have no problem with sorcerers having a shield or the way it scales. The duration and CC immunity needs to be looked at though.

@TheBull I quoted followed by "The amount of disinformation and complete ignorance in this thread is astounding."

That was directed at your quote. To anyone who PvPs it is obvious that Hardened Ward does *not* " prevents stuns and knock backs"

The fact that you and so many other people in this thread are speaking about how this ability is so powerful when you guys obviously don't understand many of the mechanics in the game and PvP is pretty damn scary to me which is why I made the notes that I don't see anyone notable in PvP in here complaining about hardened ward.

Hold on man are you saying Ward does not prevent sneak attack stun, an entire game mechanic? Stuns from surprise attack? Immobilize from cripple?

Anyone notable? Dude you are delusional.

Again like I said, ward is a great skill. It just last too long and should not grant CC immunity.

I'm delusional and you're telling *me* that an ability I've been using in Cyrodiil for 11 months behaves differently than it does. Got it. Have you ever even been to Cyrodiil? Did you land in the wrong forum by accident?

Glurin

Ezareth wrote: »

I actually had some DK (who was actually very skilled) bitching at me last night) telling me I was "cheesing" by attacking him from the center of my minefield. When I tried questioning the validity of his opinion by asking him what else should I do to fight a DK with a 2 hander who has reflective scales and invasion spams me constantly. He told me to "use a weapon like a real man". That's just the kind of logic it feels like I'm dealing with here and it's rather frustrating.

I think you're on to something here.

Hear me out. A few days ago I made a post about how I was noticing a pattern among the anti-BE crowd that the idea of leaving a fight just didn't seem to connect with them. Then earlier today I made a comment about how a certain poster here on the forums seemed to be driving more for a heavy armor melee than any real concern for class balance. Now I see your post here about a DK telling you to "use a real man's weapon" and basically face tank him.

I think I've figured out what's really going on. It all makes sense now. The Klingons are invading Tamriel!

Cody

Teargrants wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Shields and healing are way too strong in this game.

Anyone who uses these will beat someone who doesn't.


Well, there it is...

Well there what is? A statement that people who use abilities to boost their sustain are able to sustain more than those who don't?

He is probably playing the class that does have either of those skills.

You mean the class with 30% stam regen letting him keep rally + vigor + elude up all the time, and infinite dodge roll when he wants?

infinite dodge roll....

bahahahah

infinite dodge roll....

/sigh