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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
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• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Remove hardened ward
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NoRefunds✭✭✭Ezareth Crit Rush is the ONLY counter to ball of lighting spam, the fact that you die if 3 GUYS spam it on you ITS NATURAL, what its not natural is that there is no other way to kill you lol....also there are very few dks that are doing the roll dodge thing while every single good magika sorc is using the same build to be unkillable and at the same time burst people in 4 seconds from 36 meters away...
Edited by NoRefunds on 27 March 2015 18:071 -
NoRefunds✭✭✭in cyrodiil all skills with 28 meters range get a 8 meters range buff, read tooltips0
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ezareth Crit Rush is the ONLY counter to ball of lighting spam, the fact that you die if 3 GUYS spam it on you ITS NATURAL, what its not natural is that there is no other way to kill you lol....also there are very few dks that are doing the roll dodge thing while every single good magika sorc is using the same build to be unkillable and at the same time burst people in 4 seconds from 36 meters away...
Crit rush is not the only counter. There is 1h&s charge, bow attacks, rapid maneuver, flying blade, horses. Sorc have been basically the same class since the game was released so of course there will be more people using the strongest meta. Stamina got a huge buff in 1.6 so more and more of all classes will be migrating to a stamina build and many of these people will start heavily relying on dodge roll and stamina regen. I already see it quite often.
Personally I don't want anything nerfed at the moment just fyi.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
cschwingeb14_ESO✭✭✭✭33% of health shield for sorcs with ward (+33% for hardened ward)? Sure thing. That would be a moderate buff for most sorcs. Thanks!
It obviously needs to be 33% of health, because that's what all other self shields and heals are based off of0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ezareth Crit Rush is the ONLY counter to ball of lighting spam, the fact that you die if 3 GUYS spam it on you ITS NATURAL, what its not natural is that there is no other way to kill you lol....also there are very few dks that are doing the roll dodge thing while every single good magika sorc is using the same build to be unkillable and at the same time burst people in 4 seconds from 36 meters away...
Crit Rush and Invasion, and Ambush and any other gap closer I can think off, and any form of snipe, and another other sorc as well now that I think about it. I kill damn near every sorc I see, I have a saying that I'm fond of "Nobody escapes" and in most circumstances unless someone is nuthugging their group that's true.
The majority of sorcs I see are freaking cannon fodder and the Sorcs that I know are good I typically will ignore unless I see them expose themselves in which case I'll make a go at them. The majority of DKs right now I admit are no exploiting endless dodge rolls but the best ones are and as is true in all examples of a particular playstyle being extremely powerful, the best players use it first and everyone else copies them afterwards. That is the way of things.
BTW that range increase only applies when you are in D-Tick range of a keep not in all of cyrodiil.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube2 -
Vis✭✭✭✭✭
✭cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »33% of health shield for sorcs with ward (+33% for hardened ward)? Sure thing. That would be a moderate buff for most sorcs. Thanks!
It obviously needs to be 33% of health, because that's what all other self shields and heals are based off of
What game are you playing?v14 Sorc Vae Exillis
v14 DK Costs
v14 NB 'Vis
v14 Temp Fiat Lux0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ezareth Crit Rush is the ONLY counter to ball of lighting spam, the fact that you die if 3 GUYS spam it on you ITS NATURAL, what its not natural is that there is no other way to kill you lol....also there are very few dks that are doing the roll dodge thing while every single good magika sorc is using the same build to be unkillable and at the same time burst people in 4 seconds from 36 meters away...
Crit Rush and Invasion, and Ambush and any other gap closer I can think off, and any form of snipe, and another other sorc as well now that I think about it. I kill damn near every sorc I see, I have a saying that I'm fond of "Nobody escapes" and in most circumstances unless someone is nuthugging their group that's true.
The majority of sorcs I see are freaking cannon fodder and the Sorcs that I know are good I typically will ignore unless I see them expose themselves in which case I'll make a go at them. The majority of DKs right now I admit are no exploiting endless dodge rolls but the best ones are and as is true in all examples of a particular playstyle being extremely powerful, the best players use it first and everyone else copies them afterwards. That is the way of things.
BTW that range increase only applies when you are in D-Tick range of a keep not in all of cyrodiil.
The 8 range buff is universal for all skills with a long enough range by default. The passive Reach is the only one thats range buff is restricted to being near keeps.
0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ezareth Crit Rush is the ONLY counter to ball of lighting spam, the fact that you die if 3 GUYS spam it on you ITS NATURAL, what its not natural is that there is no other way to kill you lol....also there are very few dks that are doing the roll dodge thing while every single good magika sorc is using the same build to be unkillable and at the same time burst people in 4 seconds from 36 meters away...
Crit Rush and Invasion, and Ambush and any other gap closer I can think off, and any form of snipe, and another other sorc as well now that I think about it. I kill damn near every sorc I see, I have a saying that I'm fond of "Nobody escapes" and in most circumstances unless someone is nuthugging their group that's true.
The majority of sorcs I see are freaking cannon fodder and the Sorcs that I know are good I typically will ignore unless I see them expose themselves in which case I'll make a go at them. The majority of DKs right now I admit are no exploiting endless dodge rolls but the best ones are and as is true in all examples of a particular playstyle being extremely powerful, the best players use it first and everyone else copies them afterwards. That is the way of things.
BTW that range increase only applies when you are in D-Tick range of a keep not in all of cyrodiil.
The 8 range buff is universal for all skills with a long enough range by default. The passive Reach is the only one thats range buff is restricted to being near keeps.
Ahh you are correct, It's been awhile since I've looked at those buffs but I wish they applied to Bolt Escape ) =Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ezareth Crit Rush is the ONLY counter to ball of lighting spam, the fact that you die if 3 GUYS spam it on you ITS NATURAL, what its not natural is that there is no other way to kill you lol....also there are very few dks that are doing the roll dodge thing while every single good magika sorc is using the same build to be unkillable and at the same time burst people in 4 seconds from 36 meters away...
Crit Rush and Invasion, and Ambush and any other gap closer I can think off, and any form of snipe, and another other sorc as well now that I think about it. I kill damn near every sorc I see, I have a saying that I'm fond of "Nobody escapes" and in most circumstances unless someone is nuthugging their group that's true.
The majority of sorcs I see are freaking cannon fodder and the Sorcs that I know are good I typically will ignore unless I see them expose themselves in which case I'll make a go at them. The majority of DKs right now I admit are no exploiting endless dodge rolls but the best ones are and as is true in all examples of a particular playstyle being extremely powerful, the best players use it first and everyone else copies them afterwards. That is the way of things.
BTW that range increase only applies when you are in D-Tick range of a keep not in all of cyrodiil.
The 8 range buff is universal for all skills with a long enough range by default. The passive Reach is the only one thats range buff is restricted to being near keeps.
Ahh you are correct, It's been awhile since I've looked at those buffs but I wish they applied to Bolt Escape ) =
I agree, shame its only 15m.0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ezareth Crit Rush is the ONLY counter to ball of lighting spam, the fact that you die if 3 GUYS spam it on you ITS NATURAL, what its not natural is that there is no other way to kill you lol....also there are very few dks that are doing the roll dodge thing while every single good magika sorc is using the same build to be unkillable and at the same time burst people in 4 seconds from 36 meters away...
Crit Rush and Invasion, and Ambush and any other gap closer I can think off, and any form of snipe, and another other sorc as well now that I think about it. I kill damn near every sorc I see, I have a saying that I'm fond of "Nobody escapes" and in most circumstances unless someone is nuthugging their group that's true.
The majority of sorcs I see are freaking cannon fodder and the Sorcs that I know are good I typically will ignore unless I see them expose themselves in which case I'll make a go at them. The majority of DKs right now I admit are no exploiting endless dodge rolls but the best ones are and as is true in all examples of a particular playstyle being extremely powerful, the best players use it first and everyone else copies them afterwards. That is the way of things.
BTW that range increase only applies when you are in D-Tick range of a keep not in all of cyrodiil.
The 8 range buff is universal for all skills with a long enough range by default. The passive Reach is the only one thats range buff is restricted to being near keeps.
Ahh you are correct, It's been awhile since I've looked at those buffs but I wish they applied to Bolt Escape ) =
I agree, shame its only 15m.
Going off memory, doesn't it say that it increases the range on abilities of 15 meters or more? Or was it 22? I thought the one morph of pre-buff destructive reach was base 17 yards which then became 25 yards with the buff or something.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
cschwingeb14_ESO✭✭✭✭cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »33% of health shield for sorcs with ward (+33% for hardened ward)? Sure thing. That would be a moderate buff for most sorcs. Thanks!
It obviously needs to be 33% of health, because that's what all other self shields and heals are based off of
What game are you playing?
I'm playing a game where Blazing Shield is based off of 33% max health and bone shield is 33% of max health. Both of those have significantly powerful other effects, where hardened ward's "extra effect" is just 33% more shield value.
Sorry that I'm not playing the "Nerf-sorc-tunnel-vision" mini game that you want to play1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »33% of health shield for sorcs with ward (+33% for hardened ward)? Sure thing. That would be a moderate buff for most sorcs. Thanks!
It obviously needs to be 33% of health, because that's what all other self shields and heals are based off of
What game are you playing?
I'm playing a game where Blazing Shield is based off of 33% max health and bone shield is 33% of max health. Both of those have significantly powerful other effects, where hardened ward's "extra effect" is just 33% more shield value.
Sorry that I'm not playing the "Nerf-sorc-tunnel-vision" mini game that you want to play
Bone Shield is bugged and actually mitigates 3% of damage per hit for physical attacks currently. You still take 97% of the damage.
Blazing Shield and Igneous Shield both scale off of max health, though, and do have powerful secondary effects. I have absolutely no problem w/ giving the Sorc shield a secondary effect to compensate for health scaling.
I'd honestly assumed that was a foregone conclusion.Edited by Varicite on 28 March 2015 00:040 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well played sorcs are hard to kill, and by that I mean sorcs that know where they can engage and where they can't.
Same can be said about every class, of course.
Is it true that a well played sorc in most encounters can usually get away? yes. so?0 -
Ikarus✭✭SafiyerAmitora wrote: »Just make hardened ward scale of HP like every other shield in the game (annulment is kinda fine since its only spell dmg) and increase the cost of consecutive bolt escapes to 70%, and sorcs will be balanced
Haha. Haha. That's funny.
No. Just no.
The fact that BE already costs a lot as it is, and Sorcs have no great class self-heals means that it would only destroy the class a little bit more than it already is. Their BE and ward need to be left alone.
Yeah and NB has no dmgshield AND no heal. And now everybody runs with detectionpots which have trololol-range, so our only defensive skill is useless too.1 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This thread is still going? lol.
l2pUnfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.3 -
SafiyerAmitora✭✭✭SafiyerAmitora wrote: »Just make hardened ward scale of HP like every other shield in the game (annulment is kinda fine since its only spell dmg) and increase the cost of consecutive bolt escapes to 70%, and sorcs will be balanced
Haha. Haha. That's funny.
No. Just no.
The fact that BE already costs a lot as it is, and Sorcs have no great class self-heals means that it would only destroy the class a little bit more than it already is. Their BE and ward need to be left alone.
Yeah and NB has no dmgshield AND no heal. And now everybody runs with detectionpots which have trololol-range, so our only defensive skill is useless too.
I PLAY a nb, and I think it's fine that we have no dmg shield. And we *do* have self-heals, in a way, but they're at least better than any class heals a Sorc has.Legend || Mizery Records || Black Market WaresAeilith ~ AD L50 Khajiit magicka NB dps/max crafter (NA)Naraiya ~ AD L50 Altmer magicka Sorc dps (NA)Dont Die Like I Did ~ DC L50 Khajiit magicka Templar heals (NA)Bring The Pain ~ AD L50 Dunmer magicka DK tank (NA)An Achílles Heal ~ AD L50 Breton magicka Templar heals (NA)One Two Gank A Few ~ EP L50 Bosmer stam NB dps (NA)Your Lást Mistáke ~ DC L50 Altmer magicka NB dps (NA)Rekts All Noobs ~ DC L50 Redguard stam DK dps (NA)Reaper of Salt ~ EP L50 Khajiit stam Sorc dpsThe Réktoning ~ AD L8 Dunmer magicka DK dpsAvaraiya ~ AD L25 Altmer magicka Warden tankNafatiri ~ EP L24 Argonian magicka Warden healsOnce Upon An OP Magden ~ EP L3 Altmer magicka Warden dps (NA)Updated: 08/01/2018***759 Champion Points || ESO Member since Apr 20143 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ezareth Crit Rush is the ONLY counter to ball of lighting spam, the fact that you die if 3 GUYS spam it on you ITS NATURAL, what its not natural is that there is no other way to kill you lol....also there are very few dks that are doing the roll dodge thing while every single good magika sorc is using the same build to be unkillable and at the same time burst people in 4 seconds from 36 meters away...
Crit Rush and Invasion, and Ambush and any other gap closer I can think off, and any form of snipe, and another other sorc as well now that I think about it. I kill damn near every sorc I see, I have a saying that I'm fond of "Nobody escapes" and in most circumstances unless someone is nuthugging their group that's true.
The majority of sorcs I see are freaking cannon fodder and the Sorcs that I know are good I typically will ignore unless I see them expose themselves in which case I'll make a go at them. The majority of DKs right now I admit are no exploiting endless dodge rolls but the best ones are and as is true in all examples of a particular playstyle being extremely powerful, the best players use it first and everyone else copies them afterwards. That is the way of things.
BTW that range increase only applies when you are in D-Tick range of a keep not in all of cyrodiil.
The 8 range buff is universal for all skills with a long enough range by default. The passive Reach is the only one thats range buff is restricted to being near keeps.
Ahh you are correct, It's been awhile since I've looked at those buffs but I wish they applied to Bolt Escape ) =
I agree, shame its only 15m.
Going off memory, doesn't it say that it increases the range on abilities of 15 meters or more? Or was it 22? I thought the one morph of pre-buff destructive reach was base 17 yards which then became 25 yards with the buff or something.
I don't remember off the top of my head, will have to double check on that one. As far as I remember it has a set range that can't change, or is just barely out of the range needed to get those buffs. If someone with a sorc that has the reach passive could correct me on that.0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭SafiyerAmitora wrote: »SafiyerAmitora wrote: »Just make hardened ward scale of HP like every other shield in the game (annulment is kinda fine since its only spell dmg) and increase the cost of consecutive bolt escapes to 70%, and sorcs will be balanced
Haha. Haha. That's funny.
No. Just no.
The fact that BE already costs a lot as it is, and Sorcs have no great class self-heals means that it would only destroy the class a little bit more than it already is. Their BE and ward need to be left alone.
Yeah and NB has no dmgshield AND no heal. And now everybody runs with detectionpots which have trololol-range, so our only defensive skill is useless too.
I PLAY a nb, and I think it's fine that we have no dmg shield. And we *do* have self-heals, in a way, but they're at least better than any class heals a Sorc has.
NB self-heals are better than a Sorc, but only marginally, and that's only due to Soul Tether.
For in-combat healing, all a NB has is Strife / Sap (Sap is pretty meh now, just like Surge). All of the other heals require killing an opponent and are completely unavailable as in-combat sustain.
Strife and Surge are very comparable to one another as far as healing goes (except that Surge is FAR better than Strife for Stamina builds since it scales from crit and not spell damage / magicka).
Sap Essence is comparatively worse than Blood Magic passively healing 8% on every Frag, Restraining Prison, Mines, or Negate.
So it really only comes down to Soul Tether tipping the scales in the NB's favor, but they are honestly pretty close. I say this as the proud owner of a VR12 Sorc and multiple VR NBs, so I do have experience playing both of these classes in PvP.0 -
exiledtyrant✭✭✭SafiyerAmitora wrote: »SafiyerAmitora wrote: »Just make hardened ward scale of HP like every other shield in the game (annulment is kinda fine since its only spell dmg) and increase the cost of consecutive bolt escapes to 70%, and sorcs will be balanced
Haha. Haha. That's funny.
No. Just no.
The fact that BE already costs a lot as it is, and Sorcs have no great class self-heals means that it would only destroy the class a little bit more than it already is. Their BE and ward need to be left alone.
Yeah and NB has no dmgshield AND no heal. And now everybody runs with detectionpots which have trololol-range, so our only defensive skill is useless too.
I PLAY a nb, and I think it's fine that we have no dmg shield. And we *do* have self-heals, in a way, but they're at least better than any class heals a Sorc has.
NB self-heals are better than a Sorc, but only marginally, and that's only due to Soul Tether.
For in-combat healing, all a NB has is Strife / Sap (Sap is pretty meh now, just like Surge). All of the other heals require killing an opponent and are completely unavailable as in-combat sustain.
Strife and Surge are very comparable to one another as far as healing goes (except that Surge is FAR better than Strife for Stamina builds since it scales from crit and not spell damage / magicka).
Sap Essence is comparatively worse than Blood Magic passively healing 8% on every Frag, Restraining Prison, Mines, or Negate.
So it really only comes down to Soul Tether tipping the scales in the NB's favor, but they are honestly pretty close. I say this as the proud owner of a VR12 Sorc and multiple VR NBs, so I do have experience playing both of these classes in PvP.
We are gonna just forget all the ridiculous heal amp a NB can stack or that a lot of their passive are better than sorc in general?If all are brethren
How could my hands not tremble
As breath fled my prey?
What blinds my vision?
My hands are tools; it must be
The haze of blossoms
-Salous the Penitent1 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭People are having problems with sorcs because they can stack quite a few damage shields, and get them to reach high values.
I too hate damage shield stacking/spamming. I too want it gone. HOWEVER it is a necessary evil with the way things are right now.
with all these 20K WBs and apparently 30K meteors going around, sorcs HAVE to stack damage shields just to survive.
Its not even just isolated to sorcs, EVERY light armor player has to stack damage shields just to get by, especially sorcs and NBs. heck even medium armor and even HA players have to do it due to these high damage numbers.
My Vr14 NB is totally useless in PvP now due to the way things are, and iv played PVP since beta:( so its not my lack of skill getting me killed. she does not use a single damage shield or self heal, and she absolutely cannot compete now due to it. Its either "damage shield stack" or die. It has nothing to do with the sorcerer. the sorcerer just has acess to more and better damage shields than the other 3 classes do, making them more suited for this "new" meta, than the other 3 classes.
I have advocated WBs doing massive amounts of damage, and I still do, but 20K is literally 1/4 of most player's bars. 14K lethal arrows when im in all epic/legendary medium armor is crazy(its not heavy armor, but its not weak either, I should not be gettin hit for 14K:/) and i pray to sithis the reports i've heard of 30K meteors are not true...
until the damage gets toned down, people will be forced into this "new" damage shield meta, and it will not change. do not blame damage shields, blame what is forcing people to do it. Blame the insane regain rates and the CS system problems; blame the 20K WBs and the 30K meteors that force people into this frustrating and ridiculous play style.
ok, i've said my piece, im out.Edited by Cody on 31 March 2015 02:122 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭monkeymystic wrote: »Can't believe they STILL haven't nerfed this highly OP ability..
You can't nerf skill...OP or not.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube3 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭exiledtyrant wrote: »SafiyerAmitora wrote: »SafiyerAmitora wrote: »Just make hardened ward scale of HP like every other shield in the game (annulment is kinda fine since its only spell dmg) and increase the cost of consecutive bolt escapes to 70%, and sorcs will be balanced
Haha. Haha. That's funny.
No. Just no.
The fact that BE already costs a lot as it is, and Sorcs have no great class self-heals means that it would only destroy the class a little bit more than it already is. Their BE and ward need to be left alone.
Yeah and NB has no dmgshield AND no heal. And now everybody runs with detectionpots which have trololol-range, so our only defensive skill is useless too.
I PLAY a nb, and I think it's fine that we have no dmg shield. And we *do* have self-heals, in a way, but they're at least better than any class heals a Sorc has.
NB self-heals are better than a Sorc, but only marginally, and that's only due to Soul Tether.
For in-combat healing, all a NB has is Strife / Sap (Sap is pretty meh now, just like Surge). All of the other heals require killing an opponent and are completely unavailable as in-combat sustain.
Strife and Surge are very comparable to one another as far as healing goes (except that Surge is FAR better than Strife for Stamina builds since it scales from crit and not spell damage / magicka).
Sap Essence is comparatively worse than Blood Magic passively healing 8% on every Frag, Restraining Prison, Mines, or Negate.
So it really only comes down to Soul Tether tipping the scales in the NB's favor, but they are honestly pretty close. I say this as the proud owner of a VR12 Sorc and multiple VR NBs, so I do have experience playing both of these classes in PvP.
We are gonna just forget all the ridiculous heal amp a NB can stack or that a lot of their passive are better than sorc in general?
Not sure what all the "ridiculous heal amp" you are talking about. Mind clarifying?
As for the passives, I actually agree, but I'm fairly certain that NB and Sorc heals were being compared, not passives.
And as it goes for heals, the classes are pretty comparable for in-combat healing. If you don't think so, you very likely don't play both classes.
/shrugmonkeymystic wrote: »Can't believe they STILL haven't nerfed this highly OP ability..
You can't nerf skill...OP or not.
It is exactly as skillful as dodge-rolling. Actually a lot less so, because at least you need to pick a direction w/ a dodge roll, lol.Edited by Varicite on 1 April 2015 15:570 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exiledtyrant wrote: »SafiyerAmitora wrote: »SafiyerAmitora wrote: »Just make hardened ward scale of HP like every other shield in the game (annulment is kinda fine since its only spell dmg) and increase the cost of consecutive bolt escapes to 70%, and sorcs will be balanced
Haha. Haha. That's funny.
No. Just no.
The fact that BE already costs a lot as it is, and Sorcs have no great class self-heals means that it would only destroy the class a little bit more than it already is. Their BE and ward need to be left alone.
Yeah and NB has no dmgshield AND no heal. And now everybody runs with detectionpots which have trololol-range, so our only defensive skill is useless too.
I PLAY a nb, and I think it's fine that we have no dmg shield. And we *do* have self-heals, in a way, but they're at least better than any class heals a Sorc has.
NB self-heals are better than a Sorc, but only marginally, and that's only due to Soul Tether.
For in-combat healing, all a NB has is Strife / Sap (Sap is pretty meh now, just like Surge). All of the other heals require killing an opponent and are completely unavailable as in-combat sustain.
Strife and Surge are very comparable to one another as far as healing goes (except that Surge is FAR better than Strife for Stamina builds since it scales from crit and not spell damage / magicka).
Sap Essence is comparatively worse than Blood Magic passively healing 8% on every Frag, Restraining Prison, Mines, or Negate.
So it really only comes down to Soul Tether tipping the scales in the NB's favor, but they are honestly pretty close. I say this as the proud owner of a VR12 Sorc and multiple VR NBs, so I do have experience playing both of these classes in PvP.
We are gonna just forget all the ridiculous heal amp a NB can stack or that a lot of their passive are better than sorc in general?
Not sure what all the "ridiculous heal amp" you are talking about. Mind clarifying?
As for the passives, I actually agree, but I'm fairly certain that NB and Sorc heals were being compared, not passives.
And as it goes for heals, the classes are pretty comparable for in-combat healing. If you don't think so, you very likely don't play both classes.
/shrugmonkeymystic wrote: »Can't believe they STILL haven't nerfed this highly OP ability..
You can't nerf skill...OP or not.
It is exactly as skillful as dodge-rolling. Actually a lot less so, because at least you need to pick a direction w/ a dodge roll, lol.
Shaking my head at this:
"And as it goes for heals, the classes are pretty comparable for in-combat healing. If you don't think so, you very likely don't play both classes."
That USED to be true, but the hidden cooldown added to Surge heals with the 1.6 update totally broke that balance. When I tried it with an NB template on the PTS, I found Sap Essence HPS still scales up with the number of targets, Surge simply does not, and that's a HUGE difference.
Blood Magic is JOKE, by the way... doesn't do anything against multiple targets, as far as I can tell. It's not like you cast Encase at six targets and get six heals or anything like that. Same thing goes for Crystal Blast, the AOE morph of Crystal Shard. You're lucky if you get even ONE Blood Magic heal with any of the Dark Magic skills!
.Edited by Emma_Overload on 1 April 2015 16:16#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People are having problems with sorcs because they can stack quite a few damage shields, and get them to reach high values.
I too hate damage shield stacking/spamming. I too want it gone. HOWEVER it is a necessary evil with the way things are right now.
with all these 20K WBs and apparently 30K meteors going around, sorcs HAVE to stack damage shields just to survive.
Its not even just isolated to sorcs, EVERY light armor player has to stack damage shields just to get by, especially sorcs and NBs. heck even medium armor and even HA players have to do it due to these high damage numbers.
My Vr14 NB is totally useless in PvP now due to the way things are, and iv played PVP since beta:( so its not my lack of skill getting me killed. she does not use a single damage shield or self heal, and she absolutely cannot compete now due to it. Its either "damage shield stack" or die. It has nothing to do with the sorcerer. the sorcerer just has acess to more and better damage shields than the other 3 classes do, making them more suited for this "new" meta, than the other 3 classes.
I have advocated WBs doing massive amounts of damage, and I still do, but 20K is literally 1/4 of most player's bars. 14K lethal arrows when im in all epic/legendary medium armor is crazy(its not heavy armor, but its not weak either, I should not be gettin hit for 14K:/) and i pray to sithis the reports i've heard of 30K meteors are not true...
until the damage gets toned down, people will be forced into this "new" damage shield meta, and it will not change. do not blame damage shields, blame what is forcing people to do it. Blame the insane regain rates and the CS system problems; blame the 20K WBs and the 30K meteors that force people into this frustrating and ridiculous play style.
ok, i've said my piece, im out.
I hear this from many posters but I can't quite comprehend the logic behind it. Let's say it is true that the low-health and high-damage realities in Cyrodiil make it absolutely necessary to adopt damage shields for a light armor wearer now that its mitigation is worthless. In fact, I will accept this hypothesis. I will not set foot outside a keep without packing a damage shield.
But how does reversing or "fixing" the parameters of 1.6 Cyrodiil change the "problem" people have with damage shields? I mean if we buff light armor and health to what they were in 1.5 and tone done the damage by 25%...what is to stop people from using damage shields? Wouldn't this make the problem worse since it will take you even longer to burst down a damage shield and at the point still have to contend with fairly resistant armor and a high health target?
I also question the statement that sorcs make that they are "forced" to use damage shields because reasons. Like you still wouldn't cast hardened ward if you had a self heal, armor that wasn't tissue paper, and a high health pool? You going to slot liquid lightning istead
? You aren't "forced" to use a damage shield, you *choose* to use them because they are powerful and versatile defensive spells and would be a fool not to continue using them regardless of what the TTK parameters were in Cyrodiil.
In the DK heydays of pre 1.6, they still used igneous shield (or fragmented when it was a stupidly good dps skill) even with their batswarms, talons, reflect, perma-blocking, etc...
Maybe I overvalue these defensive skills, but I will say with 100% certainty that if all PVP damage was cut in half on a hot patch tomorrow, I will still rock hardened ward, harness magicka, and healing ward.
Edited by Joy_Division on 1 April 2015 16:260 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »exiledtyrant wrote: »SafiyerAmitora wrote: »SafiyerAmitora wrote: »Just make hardened ward scale of HP like every other shield in the game (annulment is kinda fine since its only spell dmg) and increase the cost of consecutive bolt escapes to 70%, and sorcs will be balanced
Haha. Haha. That's funny.
No. Just no.
The fact that BE already costs a lot as it is, and Sorcs have no great class self-heals means that it would only destroy the class a little bit more than it already is. Their BE and ward need to be left alone.
Yeah and NB has no dmgshield AND no heal. And now everybody runs with detectionpots which have trololol-range, so our only defensive skill is useless too.
I PLAY a nb, and I think it's fine that we have no dmg shield. And we *do* have self-heals, in a way, but they're at least better than any class heals a Sorc has.
NB self-heals are better than a Sorc, but only marginally, and that's only due to Soul Tether.
For in-combat healing, all a NB has is Strife / Sap (Sap is pretty meh now, just like Surge). All of the other heals require killing an opponent and are completely unavailable as in-combat sustain.
Strife and Surge are very comparable to one another as far as healing goes (except that Surge is FAR better than Strife for Stamina builds since it scales from crit and not spell damage / magicka).
Sap Essence is comparatively worse than Blood Magic passively healing 8% on every Frag, Restraining Prison, Mines, or Negate.
So it really only comes down to Soul Tether tipping the scales in the NB's favor, but they are honestly pretty close. I say this as the proud owner of a VR12 Sorc and multiple VR NBs, so I do have experience playing both of these classes in PvP.
We are gonna just forget all the ridiculous heal amp a NB can stack or that a lot of their passive are better than sorc in general?
Not sure what all the "ridiculous heal amp" you are talking about. Mind clarifying?
As for the passives, I actually agree, but I'm fairly certain that NB and Sorc heals were being compared, not passives.
And as it goes for heals, the classes are pretty comparable for in-combat healing. If you don't think so, you very likely don't play both classes.
/shrugmonkeymystic wrote: »Can't believe they STILL haven't nerfed this highly OP ability..
You can't nerf skill...OP or not.
It is exactly as skillful as dodge-rolling. Actually a lot less so, because at least you need to pick a direction w/ a dodge roll, lol.
Shaking my head at this:
"And as it goes for heals, the classes are pretty comparable for in-combat healing. If you don't think so, you very likely don't play both classes."
That USED to be true, but the hidden cooldown added to Surge heals with the 1.6 update totally broke that balance. When I tried it with an NB template on the PTS, I found Sap Essence HPS still scales up with the number of targets, Surge simply does not, and that's a HUGE difference.
Blood Magic is JOKE, by the way... doesn't do anything against multiple targets, as far as I can tell. It's not like you cast Encase at six targets and get six heals or anything like that. Same thing goes for Crystal Blast, the AOE morph of Crystal Shard. You're lucky if you get even ONE Blood Magic heal with any of the Dark Magic skills!
.
It seems Blood Magic has a cooldown on it as well, so that multi target healing isn't a thing. This requires you to use very expensive skills frequently to get the heal often.1 -
McDoogs✭✭✭✭Blazing shield on my stam templar with 20k hp gives me a ~8k shield. Hardened ward on my magicka sorc with 24k magicka gives me a ...~8k shield.
Totally OP, bro.2 -
pronkg✭✭✭✭Blazing shield on my stam templar with 20k hp gives me a ~8k shield. Hardened ward on my magicka sorc with 24k magicka gives me a ...~8k shield.
Totally OP, bro.
Yeh haha, I've heard anything from 20k spam able shield on sorcs up to 30k crit meteor spells.
Being in one of the top EU pvp guilds at the moment, I've never heard much complains on Teamspeak about whatever class other then maybe some minor balance corrections.
As a sorc myself, I've fought many 1 v 1 battles against some elite pvp players DK's, NB's and Templars, I wonder what the majority of people complaining about sorcs have to complain about when they encounter them.
Anyways if you want to sort these things out we need to see some statistics and not speculations about what is OP and what is not.
All I can say is minor balance tweaks that's all.0
