Too many fights are just STUPID hard

LunaRae

My first tough VR boss fight was saving high king emeric in his dream. Can't remember the boss's name but he was basically the giant skeleton bones and he would summon 3-4 skeleton mobs every now n' then while he hit like a truck. I could tell it was going to be hard the moment my regular combo wasn't working so I had to implement run and fight tactics. I'd run away while his mobs were summoned and when they disappeared (before he resummoned) I would get in some rapid strikes and auto attacks, then I'd start running again when he had 4 mobs on me. I'd utilize my shadowy disguise to help regen stamina when it started getting low to, and potions were in great use in this fight.

At the end it was definitely difficult, haven't had many like this (maybe 2-3 others), but I didn't die once and was able to clean him up. I like the challenge so far. My friends have a hard time with harvesters and iunno why. Predictable, easy to dodge abilities. Even multiple mobs with CC you can just kill the mobs first or block their CC or break out of it before getting smacked by a harvester. I think most of the time it comes down to experience, knowing the mechanics in game and how to use them, and player skill. Maybe there's something diff at higher VR levels, I'm only at 3 right now so I wouldn't know.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

I used to go: "oh well I'm not strong enough, I'll come back later."

Now after leveling a bunch of chars I go: "I'm doing it wrong, less see what we can come up with."

You need to understand how the game works and it's not all that obvious how the various mechanics work.

A clue. Weapon damage scales directly to the max stamina number and spell damage to the max magic number. So if you enchant or eat say a 10% buff to either number your weapon or spell will hit 10% harder.

Bhakura

The encounter is a pain because you get completely out of mana killing the endless mobs

eh?
there was endless mobs in that fight? Im playing a different game here oO?

starkerealm

Bhakura wrote: »

The encounter is a pain because you get completely out of mana killing the endless mobs

eh?
there was endless mobs in that fight? Im playing a different game here oO?

With the way the game is going, can you even pretend to be surprised if some players are getting hit with a bug that makes an encounter impossible?

Eivar

starkerealm wrote: »

Bhakura wrote: »

The encounter is a pain because you get completely out of mana killing the endless mobs

eh?
there was endless mobs in that fight? Im playing a different game here oO?

With the way the game is going, can you even pretend to be surprised if some players are getting hit with a bug that makes an encounter impossible?

With the way the internet is going, can you even pretend to be surprised if some players are exaggerating the issue out of frustration?

dracobains_ESO

Blackwidow wrote: »

I want to disagree with you, but I don't want to come across as some ass that just says I better that you, so suck it up.

So, if there is a way to make your game better, but it will not effect my game, I'm all for it.

Now you see, this is civility. Good on you!

Grao

Bhakura wrote: »

The encounter is a pain because you get completely out of mana killing the endless mobs

eh?
there was endless mobs in that fight? Im playing a different game here oO?

Fine... Not endless mobs >.> 5 or so waves of mobs, ok? Gods, can't even exaggerate a little

starkerealm

Eivar wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Bhakura wrote: »

The encounter is a pain because you get completely out of mana killing the endless mobs

eh?
there was endless mobs in that fight? Im playing a different game here oO?

With the way the game is going, can you even pretend to be surprised if some players are getting hit with a bug that makes an encounter impossible?

With the way the internet is going, can you even pretend to be surprised if some players are exaggerating the issue out of frustration?

With the way the internet is going, can you even pretend that trolling isn't a hobby for some people?

EDIT And I've actually seen the Lyris Doppleganger fire off the Feast twice in a row, before the first wave orbs are absorbed too many times for me to call BS on the poster just out of hand. When the scripting in this game goes screwey, it goes all out for screwing over the player.

Reykice

The issue is that spells cost too much and the regen has no value... in most games you can heal/dps for a while before running out of resources... other more modern MMO`s went with the SWTOR approach where you can dps or you can heal... but unless you have talents in it you can`t do it for long before running out of resources.

Here you can do both fine but not for long as no matter how you spec you will run out of resources fast.... another design flaw.

Eivar

starkerealm wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Bhakura wrote: »

The encounter is a pain because you get completely out of mana killing the endless mobs

eh?
there was endless mobs in that fight? Im playing a different game here oO?

With the way the game is going, can you even pretend to be surprised if some players are getting hit with a bug that makes an encounter impossible?

With the way the internet is going, can you even pretend to be surprised if some players are exaggerating the issue out of frustration?

With the way the internet is going, can you even pretend that trolling isn't a hobby for some people?

EDIT And I've actually seen the Lyris Doppleganger fire off the Feast twice in a row, before the first wave orbs are absorbed too many times for me to call BS on the poster just out of hand. When the scripting in this game goes screwey, it goes all out for screwing over the player.

I love how everyone cries "Troll" anytime someone disagrees with them or points out a different POV.

Also I've seen that happen quite a few times on harvesters, it's annoying but it doesn't make the fight much harder, more likely to get a heal and make the fight last longer but that's about it.

Eivar

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

The issue is that spells cost too much and the regen has no value... in most games you can heal/dps for a while before running out of resources... other more modern MMO`s went with the SWTOR approach where you can dps or you can heal... but unless you have talents in it you can`t do it for long before running out of resources.

Here you can do both fine but not for long as no matter how you spec you will run out of resources fast.... another design flaw.

I don't know that it's a design flaw, I beleive the intent is for people to work light/heavy attacks into their dps rotations, i know on both my characters i do on a regular basis.

Sleepwalker

Eivar wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

The issue is that spells cost too much and the regen has no value...
Here you can do both fine but not for long as no matter how you spec you will run out of resources fast...

I don't know that it's a design flaw, I believe the intent is for people to work light/heavy attacks into their dps rotations, i know on both my characters i do on a regular basis.

This.

The intent was always to not have a "cooldown" on abilities, but to make them cost a sufficient amount of resources that you're not spamming them. The limitation of stamina and magicka during encounters is not a design flaw, it is the design. Running out of either means it's time to adjust your strategy on the run. Pretty fun in my opinion.

catpower

I've never died more than twice on any particular encounter, but I have certainly bitten the dust because of weird lag, broken npc scripts (like where they are supposed to help you, but stand there doing nothing), and other glitches. Some people may be having even more issues with that stuff than I am and it is definitely frustrating.

I'd guess people playing on the euro server have it the worst due to network issues, latency, etc.

What I'm trying to say is that it may very well be more than just people refusing to try different skills or learn the fight's mechanics.

Using the last battle in the fighter's guild quest as an example, I had wacked out lag in the final room that wasn't happening before and a certain npc did not follow the script until I had died horribly, twice on the last boss. I still don't know why they did follow it the third time, but the fight progressed normally then. It was still challenging, but doable.

So far I have enjoyed learning and trying new tactics, if they can squash all the bugs and eliminate the lag, scripting errors, etc. then there will be way less need for reducing the difficulty (just as an aside, I favor a difficulty selector with scaling rewards as long as we are not allowed to completely ignore fight mechanics even in the lowest setting). Some of the fights really do teach you cool strategies!

kasain

Yankee wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

Several of you are still clearly missing the point. The game doesn't need to be made easier, if anything many bosses need a buff. Just ditch forced solo content and problem solved.

For those few who want to group with a partner through the whole game it will solve the problem.

For those many who only want to group to get through the "impossible" main quests but think they can go on to solo VR content, it just kicks the can down the road to the future "vet zones impossible" threads.

I think in time they will adjust vet zones and solo bosses to be easier in order to keep subscriptions and get people into new content. I am sure they are watching sub cancellations and will adjust accordingly. Perhaps the numbers are not too concerning yet.

I slightly disagree with this. Their are a few fights that are hard and to have a partner is great. Or even if not a partner, it comes back to the fact. Watch a movie by yourself it's ok. Bring a friend to the movie and go OH YEA!!! That was cool, what do you think. Same thing for questing with a friend or random stranger.

The fact ESO wants to go from solo lvl 1 to V10, then put us in "TWELVE" man groups after that is insane. Their is no build up to that. we never had anyone around and the player is way to untrained in game style for such a huge jump.

I really should make a poll on this, but would you refer the game to a friend tomorrow? As that is the best form of marketing, hearing it from a friend. But also knowing you could most likely never do anything in this game with your friend as your so far ahead and they just started. You couldn't do anything together. And even if you made a new character to help that one friend, what if another one of your friends signs up a week after. Will you make a new toon for him and help them to? Of course not. Grouping should always be allowed. Until it is I could not in good conscious recommend this game to any friend.

kasain

LunaRae wrote: »

My first tough VR boss fight was saving high king emeric in his dream. Can't remember the boss's name but he was basically the giant skeleton bones and he would summon 3-4 skeleton mobs every now n' then while he hit like a truck. I could tell it was going to be hard the moment my regular combo wasn't working so I had to implement run and fight tactics. I'd run away while his mobs were summoned and when they disappeared (before he resummoned) I would get in some rapid strikes and auto attacks, then I'd start running again when he had 4 mobs on me. I'd utilize my shadowy disguise to help regen stamina when it started getting low to, and potions were in great use in this fight.

At the end it was definitely difficult, haven't had many like this (maybe 2-3 others), but I didn't die once and was able to clean him up. I like the challenge so far. My friends have a hard time with harvesters and iunno why. Predictable, easy to dodge abilities. Even multiple mobs with CC you can just kill the mobs first or block their CC or break out of it before getting smacked by a harvester. I think most of the time it comes down to experience, knowing the mechanics in game and how to use them, and player skill. Maybe there's something diff at higher VR levels, I'm only at 3 right now so I wouldn't know.

Wow even as a sor this guy was a joke. I remember that fight. I would main attack him with CC, but when he summond a skeleton just use stampede and it warp me across the screen and attack. usually killing it in same him. Then refocus on main boss.

To many fights though, can be soloed with weakening prism and demonic curse. The bosses won't even land one hit whole fights. You can AFK kill them if you have a timed macro.

Sleepwalker

kasain wrote: »

I really should make a poll on this, but would you refer the game to a friend tomorrow? As that is the best form of marketing, hearing it from a friend. But also knowing you could most likely never do anything in this game with your friend as your so far ahead and they just started. You couldn't do anything together...

I'm pretty sure they have published some notes saying that they are looking into a system where this will no longer be the case; a kind of sidekick or exemplar system to allow you to team up and get things done regardless of the level gap. I'll try to find a link.

EDIT: Looks like that's just for dungeons - auto level to the group leader. But, step in the right direction nonetheless.

Bleakraven

I'm enjoying the increased difficulty of VR levels, it gives more depth to fights, it's not breezing through and not even seeing the enemy's name. I like it a lot. I hope you manage to find a nice cooperative group and get through those tough missions.

Dublicious

Eivar wrote: »

I love how everyone cries "Troll" anytime someone disagrees with them or points out a different POV.

Agree, it's quite similar to how everyone cries "you're just whiny and entitled and need to be better" every time someone offers a different point of view. What this thread comes down to is that different people find different things fun. When people talk trash on those with other opinions, we call them trolls. Some people think spending your entire play session for the evening dying to the same mob until you wind up on top is fun. Others think progressing through the quests and exploring is fun because they don't have the attention span or patience to do the same thing 30 times (me). Neither is right or wrong, they're preferences, otherwise we'd all still be playing Mario Bros (this one with exactly 1 level: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Brothers).

Eivar

Dublicious wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

I love how everyone cries "Troll" anytime someone disagrees with them or points out a different POV.

Agree, it's quite similar to how everyone cries "you're just whiny and entitled and need to be better" every time someone offers a different point of view. What this thread comes down to is that different people find different things fun. When people talk trash on those with other opinions, we call them trolls. Some people think spending your entire play session for the evening dying to the same mob until you wind up on top is fun. Others think progressing through the quests and exploring is fun because they don't have the attention span or patience to do the same thing 30 times (me). Neither is right or wrong, they're preferences, otherwise we'd all still be playing Mario Bros (this one with exactly 1 level: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Brothers).

Agreed, but sadly, people always call for the one solution that suits their needs, and act as if it's the obvious choice, thankfully most dev teams look at the broader picture of what they can do to adjust the game to suit as many customers as possible.

Wargasmo

that doesn't mean the game needs to get easier


Moderator Edit: Removed comment attacking another user.

dracobains_ESO

Wargasmo wrote: »

We must save this game from the mindless and mewling machinations of mediocrity! (how's that for alliteration) No, you don't get a free pass because you have the reaction time of a 2 year old. Playing Blues Clues. Eating Cheerios. In your ninja turtle underwear.

Daddy may drink because you cry, but that doesn't mean the game needs to get easier because you keyboard turn and stand in fire.

I still think my solution is the best. Have an npc troll follow bad players around, verbally abuse them, and repeatedly spawn gank them. And not an internet troll either! A REAL f'ing troll! Named after me. And immune to fire.

This is one of the most repugnant posts I have read on this forum to date. Good luck with that business model... You work for the banking industry per chance?

aleister

We'll see I suppose. I guess I'm kind of coming around to understanding people like Wargasmo's point of view; this is something they are good at, they work hard to get to the highest levels and they want a game that rewards them with status that casual players will not be able to achieve.

The rest of us... well, I think most of us would just like to be able to see and enjoy the content without having to dedicate so much time and energy. I'm not even sure I'll make it to 50 and from what I gather, I'll never make it through the VR levels so I'll probably never see Craglorn or any of the other new content.

In the coming weeks after the update, I'm hopeful ZOS will give us a clue as to which direction they want to take the game. If it is going to continue to be a highly solo-oriented "MMO" catering to elite hardcore players I just wish they come out and sell it that way. Maybe there is a market there, I don't know... Either way, I -- perhaps foolishly -- prepaid for 180 days, so I'll check in every now and then see what happens.

Yankee

kasain wrote: »

Yankee wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

Several of you are still clearly missing the point. The game doesn't need to be made easier, if anything many bosses need a buff. Just ditch forced solo content and problem solved.

For those few who want to group with a partner through the whole game it will solve the problem.

For those many who only want to group to get through the "impossible" main quests but think they can go on to solo VR content, it just kicks the can down the road to the future "vet zones impossible" threads.

I think in time they will adjust vet zones and solo bosses to be easier in order to keep subscriptions and get people into new content. I am sure they are watching sub cancellations and will adjust accordingly. Perhaps the numbers are not too concerning yet.

I slightly disagree with this. Their are a few fights that are hard and to have a partner is great. Or even if not a partner, it comes back to the fact. Watch a movie by yourself it's ok. Bring a friend to the movie and go OH YEA!!! That was cool, what do you think. Same thing for questing with a friend or random stranger.

The fact ESO wants to go from solo lvl 1 to V10, then put us in "TWELVE" man groups after that is insane. Their is no build up to that. we never had anyone around and the player is way to untrained in game style for such a huge jump.

I really should make a poll on this, but would you refer the game to a friend tomorrow? As that is the best form of marketing, hearing it from a friend. But also knowing you could most likely never do anything in this game with your friend as your so far ahead and they just started. You couldn't do anything together. And even if you made a new character to help that one friend, what if another one of your friends signs up a week after. Will you make a new toon for him and help them to? Of course not. Grouping should always be allowed. Until it is I could not in good conscious recommend this game to any friend.

You make very good points and I have to agree with your insight. Personally I do not mind if they allow grouping and it would solve your above scenario.

Too bad for me at approaching 60 years old I have no RL friends left that play "silly" computer games. Not ready to join the Bingo crowd just yet so I am a member of a large gaming guild.

However, I still am cynical enough to believe a lot of people complaining do not intend to run with friends. They ran solo to their roadblock and just want to be able to skip or make easier what they perceive as "impossible" content (the main quest fights) in order to get on to the rest of the game to run solo some more.

I do not want VR difficulty nerfed too much for that particular crowd when they smack head on into it with their "I should be able to play anyway/any build I want" action bar/gear setups. Those will be right back on the forum complaining.

Yet I have never seen a decent MMO where any old mish/mash of skills/gear would work for all content.

Then again, perhaps I am way wrong. Time will tell.

All I know is the only thing keeping me sane questing this last 100 levels is the risk of my character dying because certain encounters are hard enough to surprise the complacent.

Evilbeauty

I don't get why people are crying about some difficulty. I haven't once found ANY solo boss to difficult to kill. Yes I have died numerous amount of times on some bosses but I always won at the end of retrying another strategy.

Do you guys even bother to try other spells? Try other strategies? I have almost all my class line skills maxxed and morphed, as well as numerous weapons maxxed and skills morphed. I'm forever changing my bars to suit the conditions.

Please I wish people would just stop crying for nerfs and yurn this game into a mindless easy mode mmo.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Just taking my DK back into "Cheerful Slaughter" to hone his stuff. Those last two level 24 guys are pretty tough for my level 18 DK, but I know I can do it, I just have to get it right.

It's these kinds of things that keep me interested in learning more. My witch just slaughtered everyone, almost effortlessly but I'm good at sorcs. Now this is my first DK and I'm learning a lot. I would learn slower if not challenged like this.

Evilbeauty

aleister wrote: »

We'll see I suppose. I guess I'm kind of coming around to understanding people like Wargasmo's point of view; this is something they are good at, they work hard to get to the highest levels and they want a game that rewards them with status that casual players will not be able to achieve.

The rest of us... well, I think most of us would just like to be able to see and enjoy the content without having to dedicate so much time and energy. I'm not even sure I'll make it to 50 and from what I gather, I'll never make it through the VR levels so I'll probably never see Craglorn or any of the other new content.

In the coming weeks after the update, I'm hopeful ZOS will give us a clue as to which direction they want to take the game. If it is going to continue to be a highly solo-oriented "MMO" catering to elite hardcore players I just wish they come out and sell it that way. Maybe there is a market there, I don't know... Either way, I -- perhaps foolishly -- prepaid for 180 days, so I'll check in every now and then see what happens.

I am a casual just hit veteran and got vr2 in just over 2 hours yes you heard correct.

I have been playing steadily about a few hours after work a day, took me nearly a month to reach 50. The thing thats wrong with people is they are impatient and want to hit max level in a week or so...

I enjoy a challenge and I also know that every boss is doable but maybe not the way complainers are attempting them.

bruceb14_ESO5

I hit 50 in a month. Afterwards, 2 weeks to VR2, 1 week to VR3 and close to VR4. How you managed to get a Veteran level in 2 hours I would like to know better.

Evilbeauty

bruceb14_ESO5 wrote: »

I hit 50 in a month. Afterwards, 2 weeks to VR2, 1 week to VR3 and close to VR4. How you managed to get a Veteran level in 2 hours I would like to know better.

Because unlike alot of people these days. I research everything. Best class set ups most effective boss strategies and best way to level in veteran.

If anyone had of bothered to do some quick googling they would have quickly found out that the best way to get a few quick levels is to do all the point of interest (world bosses, dolmens, public dungeons) from each zone 1-5.

I am about to hit vr3 with out even touching a single quest. And I still have vr5 points of interest to do.

This why threads like this absolutely annoy the hell out of me. Instead of doing some research about said difficult boss or even about some probably real important but missed class skills they come and make a QQ thread.

aleister

If you enjoy dying over and over and having to invest hours on researching the perfect strategy and character spec to beat particular fights, then yeah, I'm sure this game is great for you.

I bought it because I loved the Elder Scrolls series and I've been looking for something to replace WoW for quite a while now. I find it bizarre that such an casual-friendly series as ES is getting such an exclusive elites-only treatment as an MMO. And call me a fan-boy, but I never once felt stuck or locked out of anything for all of the years I played WoW. Accessibility is one of the primary things that made that game so successful.

ShedsHisTail

aleister wrote: »

If you enjoy dying over and over and having to invest hours on researching the perfect strategy and character spec to beat particular fights, then yeah, I'm sure this game is great for you.

I bought it because I loved the Elder Scrolls series and I've been looking for something to replace WoW for quite a while now. I find it bizarre that such an casual-friendly series as ES is getting such an exclusive elites-only treatment as an MMO. And call me a fan-boy, but I never once felt stuck or locked out of anything for all of the years I played WoW. Accessibility is one of the primary things that made that game so successful.

You're kidding, right?
I remember all kinds of content you couldn't access without meeting specific perquisites first in WoW. Whether that be just being high enough level that a quest would show for you, to having to complete certain quest to enter this or that dungeon, to to having to find various keys throughout the world to access certain areas.

Wow became super successful while all these things were in place. Many were removed down the line as the general populace out leveled the content, but there were plenty of hard locks and gear checks in WoW.