Too many fights are just STUPID hard

petikozmyeb17_ESO

I like challenge, really. Im playing WoW too and completed everything on every difficulty. I know, elder scrolls is a whole different thing. But there are some mobs/minibosses which are just too damned powerful. Mostly some casters. I can just destructive clench almost everything and keep it stunned. Mostly i have problems with harvesters and trolls. Trolls have insane hp regen, they hit hard and have a lot of hp. Harvesters.... i hate them, if i see one i just run away. They hit 600-700 with ranged!!! Before they make the orbs they tear you apart with that ability which deals about 70-80% of you hp. There is no problem with the orbs, i can just aoe them. The main problem is i think some mobs just deal too much dmg, mostly ranged. I get a lot of spell dmg however im fully light armored and have a lot of spellresi.

Wargasmo

Have all you people who seem to think that solo quests are hard ever thought that maybe it was designed that way?

Slightly challenging solo encounters are gateways that make sure a player has the bare minimum requisite skillset to succeed in content beyond this point. Sure, the vast majority of the game is just mindless buttonspam grind, but the vast majority of the game is just something we go through to get to endgame. Endgame is where the game really starts and if you can't respond to simple mechanics you are not only a detriment to your own progression but a detriment to every group you queue into.

So, while you may want to cry that Baddass_Boss_001 is too hard for you, recognize that this skill check is a gating mechanic that functions as quality control for our VR dungeon farm queue. Devs need to cater to the long term clientele: the MMO fan base, which will keep paying recurring sub fees to experience challenging and new mmo endgame content.

So man up, and remember... if the boss is doing something funny, it probably means there is something you should be doing to react to that aside from spamming the usual suspects like you always do.

Moderator Edit: inflammatory language removed

tjockis1981

Nah... i find that many if not most of the players i have meet ingame have wacky builds... The other thing they have in common is that they also think its hard. To me its not hard but on te other hand i find my builds great. sure i meet some boss or some mobpacks sometimes that kills me off, but you know what - i change some skills and adapt...

rfpalmerb16_ESO

Ok, the BIG issue here is that for some specific builds/classes the game is easy. For the rest, the game is quite challenging -- to the point of inducing more frustration than satisfaction. Sadly, you have the 'this game is too easy' posts from the meta builds and all the bandwagoners who build the FOTM classes. The devs see the group of Meta-sorcs and meta-DKs aoe deathbombing droves of mobs and decide things are too easy. The rest of us get the shaft.

With the changes in Cyrodill to mobs being V5 -- my V2 bow NS will be unable to do much of anything. (I might as well grab a restoration staff and beg for a pitty group) I have gotten so discouraged that I have cancelled my renewing subscription and plan on playing it by ear as to paying or not.

You just have to wonder how they prioritize what they are working on.

Wargasmo

rfpalmerb16_ESO wrote: »

Ok, the BIG issue here is that for some specific builds/classes the game is easy. For the rest, the game is quite challenging -- to the point of inducing more frustration than satisfaction. Sadly, you have the 'this game is too easy' posts from the meta builds and all the bandwagoners who build the FOTM classes. The devs see the group of Meta-sorcs and meta-DKs aoe deathbombing droves of mobs and decide things are too easy. The rest of us get the shaft.

With the changes in Cyrodill to mobs being V5 -- my V2 bow NS will be unable to do much of anything. (I might as well grab a restoration staff and beg for a pitty group) I have gotten so discouraged that I have cancelled my renewing subscription and plan on playing it by ear as to paying or not.

You just have to wonder how they prioritize what they are working on.

I play a gimplar and I'm just about to hit v10. Game isn't challenging. Your problem is that you named yourself as a "bow NS" I played a bow gimplar for a while and quickly learned that it's only useful when you're fighting a single mob or you're grouped. Can't expect to get through the game with one weapon choice. It's like trying to build a house with just a monkey wrench. I started with 2h and bow. Hit VR and decided I had chosen the 2 worst weaps in the game. Went sword and board and resto staff, and I've almost maxed them out at v9. At some point in time I'll level destroy staff so I can try out pulsar spam like everyone else.

Basically, if you're having trouble it's because you're using the wrong tool. There's a square hole, but you don't have a square peg. You only have a banana. Sure, you can force the banana through the hole by bashing it in, but then you end up with a wet sticky mess.

ckf12b14_ESO

I can agree that SOME fights in particular are just insane (Looking at you, Storm Atronachs and Harvesters).

But despite what ZOS said about "any build being viable", that just isn't the case. This is an MMO game before it's a TES game, and that means min/max and cookie cutter builds. The cookie cutter builds exist for a reason; that reason is that /they work and they work well/.

Eivar

I think part of the issue for those of us who haven't had many issues getting through content, is we come on the forums and hear people complaining that a boss fight we barely remember and never gave a second thought is to hard or impossible. I would happily give advice for any type of boss fight to help, so please, feel free to pop off a few boss fight names i'm sure you 'll see plenty of valid advice.

Warlordgreebo

One time... I had to LOS the harvester so much it DIDNT GET TO TARGET ME. MEanwhile Venom shot, and instant dot.. then hide back behind a stone.

Took a bit, but once I figured out how to LOS dance him, it was all she wrote.

Warlordgreebo

Also, I fully understand being frustrated with SOLO CONTENT that beats you like an old fat ***... usually it means you have to adjust your tactics.

I got where I can near solo bosses now, when my whole group is dead... ill be LOS, switch heal staff heal myself, go back to bow Venom shot, magicka dot, SPRINT AWAY, LOS, Venom shot.... Magicka dot.. SPRINT:)

Syntse

Wargasmo wrote: »

Terrible players will pay subscription fees and repeatedly fail at simple introductory content while their hard-earned dollars go towards developing content for endgame players, both casual and serious (lets be honest, this game doesn't have enough challenging content to keep truly hardcore raiders who have the time and effort to devote to world first type progression races).

Devs need to cater to the long term clientele: the MMO fan base, which will keep paying recurring sub fees to experience challenging and new mmo endgame content.

Well you kinda totally painted the death of this title right there. No enough challenging content for hc raiders and too challenging for just for fun casuals.

I'm kinda skeptic that there is enough MMO fan base along with all the other MMOs that will pay recurring sub fee to cover the costs.

Bhakura

Did a dungeon Vr6 a bit earlier and there was another player there, also NB and he had like every cheap trick in the book, vampirism, duh, one hand/shield with, duh, bash.
Saw him get passed mobs, with sneak, while he was sneaking away, i just charged those mobs, saw him attack a single mob a bit further.
Finished of my fight with the two mobs he sneaked by and still could catch up to him to finish up his mob which was still happily banging on him with 50%+ hp.

or another fight a worldboss, a bear, seriously how can you screw up a fight with a bear? They do two things, powerattack and cone aoe knock. You get out of the way of the aoe, you block the powerattack, yet the guy tanking managed to get hit by every single thing that ridiculous bear did, and died twice. Bear eventually came to me ... and i didnt loose a single drop of health.
How can you be a VR6 and not even know the skill rotation of a bear???

My point? No not that im so woopass, that its demoralizing how some people play, you have all the skills considered to be OP atm and you still manage to make a half-assed build. Here i am with my NB where half the skills are not working properly and not even bothering with sneak and totally out gun a friggin vampire with bash and sneak attacks, and it sure as hell is not because im the greatest ever because im sure thats what you gonna think.
pretty sure everyone complaining how hard the game is, is an equivalent of that NB i saw today, totally no clue.
I sincerely hope zenimax is not gonna give in and make this another eyes closed zero challenge emptyheaded mindnumbing game.

Wargasmo

Syntse wrote: »

Wargasmo wrote: »

Terrible players will pay subscription fees and repeatedly fail at simple introductory content while their hard-earned dollars go towards developing content for endgame players, both casual and serious (lets be honest, this game doesn't have enough challenging content to keep truly hardcore raiders who have the time and effort to devote to world first type progression races).

Devs need to cater to the long term clientele: the MMO fan base, which will keep paying recurring sub fees to experience challenging and new mmo endgame content.

Well you kinda totally painted the death of this title right there. No enough challenging content for hc raiders and too challenging for just for fun casuals.

I'm kinda skeptic that there is enough MMO fan base along with all the other MMOs that will pay recurring sub fee to cover the costs.

It's not really too hard for just casuals though. IMO it's a pretty perfect fit for players with a casual play schedule who enjoy moderate challenge. I, for instance, play only about 3-5 hours a day if that much and at my pace I'm just behind the leveling curve being just shy of vr10 with craiglorn hitting today. I can't (don't have time to) raid competitively anymore, but I find the challenge level of the game refreshing without being a hindrance to leveling.

So it's not a fit for the world first crowd, but that has traditionally been about 40-50 guilds of about 50 players anyway spread out across maybe 2-3 games at any one time. (You could make the argument that without those 40-50 guilds, for publicity you lose a lot of the rest of the casual raiding pve crowd that gravitates towards the games that big name guilds play in, but that's another topic of discussion) And it's not a fit for mouthbreathing keyboardturning stand-in-fire types who expect to one shot everything they look at. But then again, no mmo is.

Recall that there were people who actually thought GW2 pve was difficult and required all roles to stack hp, and people who couldn't get past gatewarden in TSW. There are people who play WoW without ever raiding and complain about nothing to do in the game once they hit max lvl. MMO's are not for this type of gamer. But I think ESO can find its niche in the casual player looking for a challenging game that has a catch that we don't have to devote 5 hours a night 5 nights a week raiding

Yankee

Eivar wrote: »

I think part of the issue for those of us who haven't had many issues getting through content, is we come on the forums and hear people complaining that a boss fight we barely remember and never gave a second thought is to hard or impossible. I would happily give advice for any type of boss fight to help, so please, feel free to pop off a few boss fight names i'm sure you 'll see plenty of valid advice.

Sadly your advice might include changing out some skills, using something other than the weapon they are using, or...like, blocking. From some the response will be;

"ZOS stated somewhere any build would work and so I should not have to ever change the build I am using from level 1 to VR12".

Syntse

Yankee wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

I think part of the issue for those of us who haven't had many issues getting through content, is we come on the forums and hear people complaining that a boss fight we barely remember and never gave a second thought is to hard or impossible. I would happily give advice for any type of boss fight to help, so please, feel free to pop off a few boss fight names i'm sure you 'll see plenty of valid advice.

Sadly your advice might include changing out some skills, using something other than the weapon they are using, or...like, blocking. From some the response will be;

"ZOS stated somewhere any build would work and so I should not have to ever change the build I am using from level 1 to VR12".

Well kinda true there. If I want to play knight with shield and sword (bad example as it is ok setup) but anyway and then I'm said that no, in order for you to succeed in that fight you have to use resto staff. I really would be like what the f my knight running with restoration staff just to survive. Just as example.

Yes could be that the other class skill choises for person might suck for reason or another. Essential basics should be understood though, moving and blocking. That is also skill that needs to be learned and doesn't necessary come automatically. Those who just stand still and bash keyboard and mouse are definitely finding many encounters hard.

Sakiri

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

ex0.f00kb16_ESO wrote: »

Change your toolbare so you have atleast 1 AOE Spell if the Bubbles apear Cast aoe Spell once or twice Bubbles gone!!!! (wasnt that hard was it, rest is movement)

Mmm, yeah, actually, it kinda is. See, I'm on a Nightblade, and the AoEs I have access right now are...

...

..

...

Uh...

...

... Oh, found one... but it doesn't do damage...

Um...

Roll up a sorcerer, I guess.

What are all the built in sorc skills that youd damage the bubbles with? Or do you mean the AOE skills from weapon lines that sorcs use, along with every other class?

You dont even know the other classes but youre ready to complain. And you got agrees for this post... LOL.

Daedric curse and mages fury have aoe effects.

Niether of these skills are used for their AOE. Both are procs off other targets, which wouldnt even hit the other balls in this case. Nice terrible examples.

The question was "where are all the built in aoes".

Those are.. built in aoes.

And a single weapon light attack kills the orbs.

I'll give you that they're a pain in the arse to see and sometimes spawn inside the mob, tight spaces are a pain in the arse, etc, but the orbs aren't *hard* to kill when the mob is out in the open like it seems the encounter was designed for.

Though the difficulty of them makes me wonder if that's why they removed it from the prison. People couldn't kill it to leave the tutorial?

Where you kill the Child of Bones, it used to be a Harvester.

Sakiri

Kahlar wrote: »

4) Immobilizing:
Harvesters are immune to stun, knockdown, snare, slow, etc.
HOWEVER, they have an 'immobilizing' spell that is cast regularly.
during this time you are lifted off the ground, frozen, can't move,
AND it takes at least half your health (tank)...
75-100% health on squishy characters like healers/sorc/mage.
(p.s. she can immobilize through blocks, through cover, and around corners)

Hold down your right mouse button and hit the left one like you're interrupting when she does that.

CC break. Everyone can do it.

dracobains_ESO

This debate is so fruitless because everyone is making comparisons that are not truly comparable. I blew Molag Bol up my first try without much effort. I just kiting him around with my bow until he was dead. I still had fun but it wasn't a great challenge. However, I have hit certain mob types with that same weapon skillset that just annihilated me making me change my entire setup to defeat.

It isn't about how easy it was for you or me it is a lack of consistency between builds. Some builds are pretty easy throughout most of the game some become impossible at certain points unless you use a specific set of skills. There is nothing inherently wrong in this so long as you enter into this game with that understanding. However, if I heard it once I heard it a thousand times, "Play whatever you want".

Quite honestly that is a misleading and inaccurate statement. Certain mobs require a specific skillset to defeat. Others you can demolish with skills which barely work on another mob. That has been my experience with my NB to V8. Some of my friends have barely paid attention while leveling until around V4 - V5 then they have to put some effort at least. While we all have access to the same weapons and various skill sets, builds are not equal and there are some traditional builds that simply do not work all that well.

What would make these discussions more valuable and productive is if players posted their specs with abilities they use and which mobs are giving them a headache. Then valid comparisons can be made and hopefully positive and meaningful information gained. This generic "my experience" vs "your experience" has almost no value at all with the mechanics of this game.

I am not among those who think this game is a pleasure ride. It feels too much like a first person shooter and less like an MMO to me so I suspect that is a generational thing. Most players my age are not liking the questing. But we all long for DAOC so we endure for the pvp. This is not a condemnation of the game, it is merely what we enjoy and subjective to all of us alike.

Bhakura

Yankee wrote: »

Sadly your advice might include changing out some skills, using something other than the weapon they are using, or...like, blocking. From some the response will be;

"ZOS stated somewhere any build would work and so I should not have to ever change the build I am using from level 1 to VR12".

if i were to use the observations i made along the way my advice would be,
1. move around
2. block power attacks
3. step out of aoe which is ridiculous easy if you do point #1
4. dont waste resources trying to get a woopass parser, they are limited, if you spam skills youll be dry in no time


there, 4 simple points that dont require you to switch out skills, just use a brain ... assuming you have one.
And yes ZOS stated any build would work, any build does work, standing there like a salt pilar and just punch buttons with no clue doesnt.

And 5. for the love of god LEARN YOUR ENEMY, knowing an enemy is a battle half won, someone way smarter then me said that.

dracobains_ESO

Bhakura wrote: »

there, 4 simple points that dont require you to switch out skills, just use a brain ... assuming you have one.
And yes ZOS stated any build would work, any build does work, standing there like a salt pilar and just punch buttons with no clue doesnt.

Oh my, I am going to have so much success with this brilliant analyses. Making enormous assumptions about others to which you have no basis only makes you look poorly equipped for cognitive reasoning, not the other way around.

Pmarsico9

It's really quite simple: There has to be a mix of fights that I will die on a few times with all the monotony that is faceroll. In that regard, ESO nails it. Hence I keep playing ESO.
I stopped playing WoW because since 2.4 that game has continuously appealed to those who don't understand that dying should be part of the equation here. They end up being too easy. I mean leveling is so dumbed down in WoW with zero sense of exploration or any particular solo encounter being remotely challenging that people think this is a proper archetype.

There's things wrong with ESO, but this is arguably the thing they've done the best. If you don't understand that resources matter and that if you starve yourself you can't roll out of the bad even though you died 10 times to the same thing, that's on you. You need to understand the overarching philosophy of an encounter that is tough.

Bhakura

dracobains_ESO wrote: »

Oh my, I am going to have so much success with this brilliant analyses. Making enormous assumptions about others to which you have no basis only makes you look poorly equipped for cognitive reasoning, not the other way around.

Um yes, vr6 and soloing everything and watching other people fight when i do team up, my enormous assumptions totally have no basis.
Might be an idiot and cognitive reasoning impaired mofo, im not blind.

Bhakura

dracobains_ESO wrote: »

Oh my, I am going to have so much success with this brilliant analyses. Making enormous assumptions about others to which you have no basis only makes you look poorly equipped for cognitive reasoning, not the other way around.

And flaming someone whos pointing out flaws in game play and gives 5 reasons why their gameplay is flawed ... is what ... exactly? Can you spell troll?

dracobains_ESO

So as you run past me in the game you know how much stam I have exhausted and whether I am able to dodge roll? You can see if I am CCd along with my stam? You have access to all the things which contribute to that fights success including the skills on my bar? And of those individuals who stand around in the puddle of death you somehow know we are those persons on this forum? That is the most stunning ability I have ever heard of. Do you have a mod for that?

Bhakura

K logic not suited for you, i apologize. let me explain then.
Been around since beta, made two toons, one vr1 one vr6, did all dungeons along the way, group content.
Now along that timeline i watch people because i solo alot, and i like to watch other people especially same classes, to see how they do things, might learn something from it.
yet the majority i see is guilty of those 5 points you so eagerly flamed i pointed out earlier, and dieing utterly stupid deaths. At the same time theres tons of people complaining nonstop how hard the game is. What are the chances that all of those people dieing stupid deaths are NOT the ones complaining how hard everything is?


NOTE: i did say MAJORITY, not everyone, before you make that your next point.

Ysne58

I still believe that allowing for some kind of grouping is preferable to nerfing in these situations. I believe it is going to come down to one or the other choice at some point.

I do not want to take away the enjoyment from the people who do love this kind of challenge while my need for help gets met.

dracobains_ESO

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

I mean leveling is so dumbed down in WoW with zero sense of exploration or any particular solo encounter being remotely challenging that people think this is a proper archetype.

There's things wrong with ESO, but this is arguably the thing they've done the best. If you don't understand that resources matter and that if you starve yourself you can't roll out of the bad even though you died 10 times to the same thing, that's on you. You need to understand the overarching philosophy of an encounter that is tough.

I agree entirely with your WOW assertion. Even a friend of mine who is pushing 70 and has limited gaming skills thinks WOW is too easy.

One of the things everyone is overlooking entirely. You may enjoy the FPS aspect of constant danger and nail biting engagements, but that will not appeal to everyone even if they have the skill to play through it. I expect some drudgery in MMOs and while I respect their effort to diminish such aspects, making me sit on the edge of my seat all night long is not relaxing at all. Combine that with most of the time I am up late alone and few if anyone in this game groups up, it isn't a fun experience for all of us. I am glad you enjoy it, but don't assume everyone is lacking in gaming skills merely because they do not like the intensity.

Wargasmo

dracobains_ESO wrote: »

You may enjoy the FPS aspect of constant danger and nail biting engagements, but that will not appeal to everyone even if they have the skill to play through it. I expect some drudgery in MMOs and while I respect their effort to diminish such aspects, making me sit on the edge of my seat all night long is not relaxing at all. Combine that with most of the time I am up late alone and few if anyone in this game groups up, it isn't a fun experience for all of us. I am glad you enjoy it, but don't assume everyone is lacking in gaming skills merely because they do not like the intensity.

Didn't they take this out of the game at it's inception already by not allowing us to open pvp gank ppl in their own zones? 90% of this game is exactly the drudgery you are looking for... mindless 1 button spam to kill single, duo, and 3 pack mobs. Imagine if you always had to look out for some random VR 10 pain train running over you as you did your quests... that's constant danger.

Pele

Ysne58 wrote: »

I still believe that allowing for some kind of grouping is preferable to nerfing in these situations. I believe it is going to come down to one or the other choice at some point.

I do not want to take away the enjoyment from the people who do love this kind of challenge while my need for help gets met.

This. Please, no more nerfs. Allow grouping for those who would like it and leave the solo option for the players who enjoy that.

Bhakura

dracobains_ESO wrote: »

This. Please, no more nerfs. Allow grouping for those who would like it and leave the solo option for the players who enjoy that.

I dont get it, does that mean your not able to group? Whats stopping you to do so?

Confused now.

Pele

Bhakura wrote: »

dracobains_ESO wrote: »

This. Please, no more nerfs. Allow grouping for those who would like it and leave the solo option for the players who enjoy that.

I dont get it, does that mean your not able to group? Whats stopping you to do so?

Confused now.

Some of the fights deemed extremely difficult are solo only.