Too many fights are just STUPID hard

Grao

kasain wrote: »

Yankee wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

Several of you are still clearly missing the point. The game doesn't need to be made easier, if anything many bosses need a buff. Just ditch forced solo content and problem solved.

For those few who want to group with a partner through the whole game it will solve the problem.

For those many who only want to group to get through the "impossible" main quests but think they can go on to solo VR content, it just kicks the can down the road to the future "vet zones impossible" threads.

I think in time they will adjust vet zones and solo bosses to be easier in order to keep subscriptions and get people into new content. I am sure they are watching sub cancellations and will adjust accordingly. Perhaps the numbers are not too concerning yet.

I slightly disagree with this. Their are a few fights that are hard and to have a partner is great. Or even if not a partner, it comes back to the fact. Watch a movie by yourself it's ok. Bring a friend to the movie and go OH YEA!!! That was cool, what do you think. Same thing for questing with a friend or random stranger.

The fact ESO wants to go from solo lvl 1 to V10, then put us in "TWELVE" man groups after that is insane. Their is no build up to that. we never had anyone around and the player is way to untrained in game style for such a huge jump.

I really should make a poll on this, but would you refer the game to a friend tomorrow? As that is the best form of marketing, hearing it from a friend. But also knowing you could most likely never do anything in this game with your friend as your so far ahead and they just started. You couldn't do anything together. And even if you made a new character to help that one friend, what if another one of your friends signs up a week after. Will you make a new toon for him and help them to? Of course not. Grouping should always be allowed. Until it is I could not in good conscious recommend this game to any friend.

Ok... I will start saying you are just wrong. You are completely wrong.

There is nothing on ESO that stops you from playing with a friend. Yes, there are a few (very few) solo quests, but the great majority of the game can be played with partners and should be! The Ring of Mara is just one clue on that topic.

Second, ZoS them selves have declared more then once that the VR ranks are not meant to be soloed. The first 50 lvls of the game it is possible to solo, yes, but starting from Vr1, the game difficulty increases to the point most people on the vr 6 or areas prefer partnering up, even if only temporary groupings just to finish a boss. A lot on this game points out towards working as a TEAM, the number of guild you can have, how the market works (without a auction house), the difficulty of the quests, etc... It all favors contact between players.

The trials are just one more step on this progression, just as the adventure zones (that you can only access whist in a group).

Syntse

Grao wrote: »

There is nothing on ESO that stops you from playing with a friend. Yes, there are a few (very few) solo quests, but the great majority of the game can be played with partners and should be! The Ring of Mara is just one clue on that topic.

Not sure how much you have played with friend or have you gone totally hand in hand with content. But there sure is a lot of quests that once done you are not able to aid your friend.

Mage guild, Fighter guild, Main quest, towns under raid quests, zone "main" quest parts just to name few.

Grao

Syntse wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

There is nothing on ESO that stops you from playing with a friend. Yes, there are a few (very few) solo quests, but the great majority of the game can be played with partners and should be! The Ring of Mara is just one clue on that topic.

Not sure how much you have played with friend or have you gone totally hand in hand with content. But there sure is a lot of quests that once done you are not able to aid your friend.

Mage guild, Fighter guild, Main quest, towns under raid quests, zone "main" quest parts just to name few.

And that is not a problem with any other MMO out there, right? Phasing, instancing is normal for any quest that affects the environment, any quests that meaningfully impact the area in question... It is done in the best games as it shows how your character affects the game.

If your character's level is far above your buddy's, then it wouldn't be fun for him playing with you (unless he enjoys getting carried and doing... Well, nothing). You should just roll a new character if that is the case. And if he is just a little behind you, go do dungeons, wait him catch up... Then you can play together.

As for the main story line, mage's guild and warrior's guid quests... A little math to show you how meaningless your complain is. Those quests happen once every 5 levels, that is a max of 10 quests per line, 30 quests total.

Now, every area in ESO (check the achievements) has at least 40 quests... From lvl 1 - 50, you have 6 areas and from vr 1 - vr 10 you have at least another 10 areas. Meaning you have a minimum of 1040 quests on the game (it is actually a lot more then that, but hey... This is a good number to start).

SO 30/1040 quests = 2.9% of the quests has to be solo.

You are complaining about less then 2.9% of the quests in the game...

I am sorry, math doesn't lie... 2.9%...
I am not impressed by your arguments.

Syntse

Grao wrote: »

SO 30/1040 quests = 2.9% of the quests has to be solo.

You are complaining about less then 2.9% of the quests in the game...

I am sorry, math doesn't lie... 2.9%...
I am not impressed by your arguments.

Yes if you count just the forced solo quests then your math doesn't lie. But it doesn't still help that if friend is stuck on a quest and needs help and you need to create new char just to help (and I have done this). I could just say LOL L2P but I'm not that kind of person.

Futher more LOL L2P attitude just results that friend to say f it and leave. And I'm sure it doesn't concern one bit many of the talented players untill there are only few thousands of you playing and Zeni shuts down the servers.

They can nerf things to oblivion so even 6 years old can solo the game to vet 10+n or they just could improve the grouping so that one is able to go on and help the person struggling at any time.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

My son is VR1 now. He just went for it. I have 110 levels across 8 chars. One is a mule at level 4 and will stay there.

Oh yeah I am taking it slow. As my army rises it just becomes stronger. As I level my crafters they feed my fighters and my son nice stuff. A steadily increasing ability to both make and enchant stuff, along with powerful drugs and very strong food production makes a force that has almost unfair advantages, well except I worked pretty hard to get here.

Onward.

Grao

Syntse wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

SO 30/1040 quests = 2.9% of the quests has to be solo.

You are complaining about less then 2.9% of the quests in the game...

I am sorry, math doesn't lie... 2.9%...
I am not impressed by your arguments.

Yes if you count just the forced solo quests then your math doesn't lie. But it doesn't still help that if friend is stuck on a quest and needs help and you need to create new char just to help (and I have done this). I could just say LOL L2P but I'm not that kind of person.

Futher more LOL L2P attitude just results that friend to say f it and leave. And I'm sure it doesn't concern one bit many of the talented players untill there are only few thousands of you playing and Zeni shuts down the servers.

They can nerf things to oblivion so even 6 years old can solo the game to vet 10+n or they just could improve the grouping so that one is able to go on and help the person struggling at any time.

I dodn't think I said L@P in my post, but hey...

Again, those quests are instanced to you because you already went through the area. Allowing your character to 'go back' would break the continuity of the game. Now, you will argue that that is not important, but seriously, it is.

Anyway, you are not able to help your friend directly, yes. It is a limitation of the game, yes. You can still help your buddy... Help him figure out why he can't do it or even better, find someone else that is in the same quest so he and your buddy can help each other. You guys have at least 5 guilds between the two of you, not to mention zone chat. Nothing wrong with asking for help in one quest...

Syntse

Grao wrote: »

Again, those quests are instanced to you because you already went through the area. Allowing your character to 'go back' would break the continuity of the game. Now, you will argue that that is not important, but seriously, it is.

Anyway, you are not able to help your friend directly, yes. It is a limitation of the game, yes. You can still help your buddy... Help him figure out why he can't do it or even better, find someone else that is in the same quest so he and your buddy can help each other. You guys have at least 5 guilds between the two of you, not to mention zone chat. Nothing wrong with asking for help in one quest...

So basically you are saying that things are fine as they are. We'll see how that works out in the long run. There are already numerous long threads about solo content and "impossible" bosses which are blocking peoples progress which makes them think why do I even sub to this. Less subs less money for Zeni, less money less future content and less servers. There's some math for you to crunch.

If you are worried of the RP side of things when someone who has saved half of the world already comes to aid someone on something he has done already then maybe the person uses some elder scroll and summons you back in time once again to aid in this battle.

I enjoy this title playing alone and playing with friends. What I'm worried is that if things do not change so that less skilled players are able to enjoy the game with help or on their own we will see quite rapid death of the title. True that one can join guilds and ask help or even yell in zone for that hoping someone is in the same situation.

CatLover53

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

...
It might be me, but this is exactly what I am gaming (and doing sports) for - overcoming challenges, to improve myself. This game really is not hard. Watch the encounters, watch their animations, learn what of their skills is getting you in trouble and learn to react accordingly.

...
right, it might be you. I for one mainly play to be entertained in my spare time, that's what I'm prepared to pay for
...

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Losing makes you rethink and analyse what went wrong and immensely increases the rewarding feeling you get when finally overcoming a challenge you weren`t able to overcome before.

...
losing makes me angry and frustrated. I just don't want to have to rethink, analyze and all that all the time in a game. no.
...

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I like that TESO is forcing players to actually think when playing. IIt seems you guys never learned to appreciate challenges, you want everything handed to you on a silver plate and I pity you. Did you guys ever compete in any sport? I dont think so, because your attitude just doesn`t fit.

...
I personally absolutely hate it to be forced to do/not to do -whatever - by a game and its design. just no to this.
and I don't care for competition at all. nowhere.
I just want to be entertained for my money.
...

so - obviously we represent 2 very different opinions on how/why to play a game.
time will tell which way the majority will be tending to.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

This and all TES games are fighting games. One should perhaps keep that in mind. It's what I like and learning a new style, MMO style, is just fun for me.

mndfreeze

I personaly think the mmo community has gotten lazy as gamers go over the last 15 years. To many people have gotten to used to being able to borderline afk kill mobs that when they are finally expected to actually have to move and react to things in real time its 'too hard' and then the complains and tears start. I've died a few times here and there, but usually its my own stupidity or my own brashness charging into a situation without prepping or planning. I've had some hard boss fights but nothing I havevn't been able to figure out. I do NOT want this game to get even easier then it already is.. Compared to even skyrim this game is easymode, compared to any other action based non-mmo game this is child play. the only way it could be easier would be to make content for the auto attackers and toddlers. If you have trouble with a specific fight chances are you are doing something wrong, did your build wrong, or at least did your build in a way that is just going to make it harder. If I put tons of points into crafting in any other game then went and complained about boss fights being to hard and someone found that out they would rip me a new butthole because crafters obviously dont have boss fighting skills and I should have put more points into class stuff or whatever.

I play as a sorc currently and since I have yet to hit vet content I've found being primarily a summon with 2 pets has worked GREAT, however there have been a few times where the pets were more of a hinderance and I had to change around my bars and tactics to adjust for that specific encounter, and I've read for other later encounters if you waste a bar spot on pets it will surely hurt your chances, for example, with molag bal.

Xanxarib16_ESO

Syntse wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Again, those quests are instanced to you because you already went through the area. Allowing your character to 'go back' would break the continuity of the game. Now, you will argue that that is not important, but seriously, it is.

Anyway, you are not able to help your friend directly, yes. It is a limitation of the game, yes. You can still help your buddy... Help him figure out why he can't do it or even better, find someone else that is in the same quest so he and your buddy can help each other. You guys have at least 5 guilds between the two of you, not to mention zone chat. Nothing wrong with asking for help in one quest...

So basically you are saying that things are fine as they are. We'll see how that works out in the long run. There are already numerous long threads about solo content and "impossible" bosses which are blocking peoples progress which makes them think why do I even sub to this. Less subs less money for Zeni, less money less future content and less servers. There's some math for you to crunch.

If you are worried of the RP side of things when someone who has saved half of the world already comes to aid someone on something he has done already then maybe the person uses some elder scroll and summons you back in time once again to aid in this battle.

I enjoy this title playing alone and playing with friends. What I'm worried is that if things do not change so that less skilled players are able to enjoy the game with help or on their own we will see quite rapid death of the title. True that one can join guilds and ask help or even yell in zone for that hoping someone is in the same situation.

i can tell you this that the 12 man trails both of them will be completed with in the first 24 hours if not with in the first 6 hours of release, and that in it self says it all about this game.
This game is not for hardcore raiders, and players like you want it to be even more easy then it is now...

if you even watched the live stream of the Craglorn Mage trail they had this weekend you will notice that first everyone in it was only rank 9, and they had only blue and green items on them, and one of the guilds could allmost kill the last boss in there, (they did infact manage to kill it in the end, - and it was a dps race) the bosses was not even hard, they had a few mechanic, no more then 2 or 3 and thats just way to little imho.

if ESO really things this is what a raid should be like, they all ready lost the population of raiders to other games.

but its no wonder they cant tune up the content, for there combat system dont allow a skilled player to out preform a bad player, the system was made to even out low skilled and high skilled players.

Turtle tanking ftw. - no question about it!
DPS cant miss with soft target and homing projectiles!
Healers cant chose who they should heal, Smart healing crap!



Moderator Edit: Some content had to be removed from this comment. Please keep it civil.

Syntse

Xanxarib16_ESO wrote: »

you know what your sig says it all, Casual my ass, roflmao you are lower then casual if you find anything in this game hard, this is a complete joke, do you think craglorn will be harder then the current content?

I do not recall saying it has been hard for me. I've been speaking in quite generic terms, trying to look at the big picture. However I've seen people struggling, I've created new char and leveled so I can help on some quests.

i can tell you this that the 12 man trails both of them will be completed with in the first 24 hours if not with in the first 6 hours of release, and that in it self says it all about this game.
This game is not for hardcore raiders, and players like you want it to be even more easy then it is now...

if you even watched the live stream of the Craglorn Mage trail they had this weekend you will notice that first everyone in it was only rank 9, and they had only blue and green items on them, and one of the guilds could allmost kill the last boss in there, (they did infact manage to kill it in the end, - and it was a dps race) the bosses was not even hard, they had a few mechanic, no more then 2 or 3 and thats just way to little imho.

I did actually watch the live streams of trials and it did not seem like total walk in the park, however once people learn the boss mechanics it will become easier. Sure there will be people who will pass it in the first 24 hours, will they top the leaderboard? Maybe for short time until they need to do it better again to gain the top spot.

I don't want it to be more easy than it is now, I would be fine with just improving the grouping so people could group any content.

if ESO really things this is what a raid should be like, they all ready lost the population of raiders to other games.

I do agree that ESO has some work to do for some epic raiding content not to mention the rewards you get once you complete something hard or huge.

Chirru

Either the Game caters for all players, or for a certain group of players only. If the hardcore elite players win this debate they will be the only group left in the end. I wonder how much the elite is willing to pay in subscription to keep the game online?

As for me...if a game (not only this one) is more stress than fun... I am out. After all, ESO is just one game amongst many, and more are coming onto the market every month. EQ next looks promising. They are promising all the features ESO does not have...as yet.

Syntse

Chirru wrote: »

Either the Game caters for all players, or for a certain group of players only. If the hardcore elite players win this debate they will be the only group left in the end. I wonder how much the elite is willing to pay in subscription to keep the game online?

Since by rumors game has costed 200M$ and funded by investors, not costing like 2M$ and funded with kickstarter we can guess are they going to cater elite players or all/majority.

Yankee

I am sure ZOS has seen the multiple threads requesting (demanding) being able to group quest encounters that are currently solo. Likewise the complaints of "impossible" main quest bosses. Only time will tell if they change anything based on the complaints. So far since beta began they have nerfed several of these encounters.

I believe some people that have played other MMO's are just not used to getting defeated in a quest encounter and having to adjust and it makes some of them rage.

No telling at this point if there are enough who like the increased difficulty to support the game. Hope fully ZOS is paying attention to the data and will adjust accordingly.

Because while I do not mind the current difficulty I do not want to have the world empty of players and see the game fail.

But really, saying the current game is tuned for only the "hardcore elite" is not accurate IMO. I doubt many players are as casual or uncoordinated as me and I managed to somehow muddle through so far.

Bhakura

Syntse wrote: »

So basically you are saying that things are fine as they are. We'll see how that works out in the long run. There are already numerous long threads about solo content and "impossible" bosses which are blocking peoples progress

TSW is another game that had an even more gruesome approach on testing ability to play the game.
There you had to kill a gatekeeper in order to reach the final end game. One tiny mistake and it was *gandalf voice* "YOU ... SHALL NOT ... PASSSSS"
Was gatekeeper impossible, was it to hard? Pretty sure for some it was, but it wasnt. And on this one you couldnt even team up, it was forced forced solo, and TOTALLY necessary, TSW endgame is very intense, it isnt now anymore its just eyes closed grinding but became that after tons and tons of run throughs, and yes tons and tons of fails. And still think gatekeeper was to bloody easy considering the amounts of times our groups wiped.

In a game with harsch endgame content its recommended to have this kind of "final exam" or you gonna have a population of "heros" that wipe and make other people wipe time and time again due to lack of understanding the system. If this was the case the crying would be even louder.
If you want access to endgame you have to allow the game to put you to the test if you are ready to take it on and do the solo encounters solo. Theyre not there to *** you off or chase away players, theyre in place to show you how well you are doing and if you are ready to proceed further. It shouldnt be an indication if you fail that the game is to hard or badly designed or open the forum and start crying about it.
Only thing wrong here is being able to team up for those solo encounters, it totally passes by the reason they are solo if you get passed em teamed and teamed again. test it, do VR dungeons and ask howmany passed solo content on their own or if they had people carrying them trough and then compare answers to how well your team is doing, you gonna be surprised.

Grao

No, I don't think things are fine as they are, I am just not sure posts like this help the game go on in anyway. For me they are inflammatory and borderline pointless at this stage.

Please understand, I am not saying yours or anyone's opinion is pointless and should be disregarded, but most of this posts are about raging and venting frustration. Now, I understand that dying on a game, losing in general can be very frustrating. I didn't got past Molag'bal in my first try either! As I mentioned before in or another post, as a sorcerer, I leveled in ESO very dependent on my 'pets' and for certain fights, as @mndfreeze said, they are completely pointless.

What I am saying is, I didn't flew through the content without any effort or without any frustration. I did my share of yelling at my screen every time I died to Lyris's clone or to the mobs that preceded Mannimarco. And I recognize, maybe some of those fights do deserve some re-balancing so more specs can get you through the fight...

So why I argue so strongly in this posts? Well... To be perfectly honest, I doubt the changes being proposed will be implemented now or anytime soon; I am absolutely sure making solo quests accept more then one player would be very hard, even though it sounds so simple. Nothing in programming is as simple as it seems.

I believe ZoS has greater priorities at this time and this will remain true for a very long time, this game has a lot of bugs to be ironed out... So many that ZoS can't be too concerned about balancing out fights that were always intended to be a little difficult, to be challenging, to make you feel like the great hero when you finally get past them.

I think in this case players should use the forum to seek out help, not just vent, rage and complain. This game is not bad because a few players can't get past some parts of the content; much more logical is criticizing the problems with bots, quests that don't work, skill lines and classes that are completely broken. Those complains are important, those complains ZoS needs to be handling right now.

Complains about the content being too hard? Complains about the 2.9% of the quests that is solo? I hope you can see my point @Syntse, that ZoS has to focus other problems before thinking about this sort of problems. I also hope others that are making this inflammatory posts, will instead dedicate their time to finding help getting past the content, cause as I said, if the content ever gets changed, nerfed, etc, it won't be anytime soon. Might as well spend a few minutes trying to figure out what you can do to get past the fights you are having problems with.

I don't want to say L2P, that is just stupid and only makes people angrier. What I want to say though, is that even in games, some measure of effort is needed to progress. Every game... Every fight has a learning curve... You just can't give in because you died a couple of times.

Bhakura

Grao wrote: »

I don't want to say L2P, that is just stupid and only makes people angrier. What I want to say though, is that even in games, some measure of effort is needed to progress. Every game... Every fight has a learning curve... You just can't give in because you died a couple of times.

Couldnt have said it better, big ass post and you say it in 4 lines >.<

Sandhya

Syntse wrote: »

Xanxarib16_ESO wrote: »

*snip*
I don't want it to be more easy than it is now, I would be fine with just improving the grouping so people could group any content.

And that would be totally fine... it would be great to introduce a 'Mentor' system that would allow players to replay quests they have previously completed. That way they can assume the Mentor role in a group and select previous quests, and run those with lower level buddies. They are carrying them, but upon reaching VR content that actually diminishes quickly.

However this suggestion has little to do with the difficulty of fights, which was the topic.

*Edit: quotes acting up..

Chirru

Yankee,
I agree with the: "... I managed to somehow muddle through so far." I did the same. Is this satisfactory to me... meh... just until something comes along that allows me more than just to muddle through.

Challenge is fine. However;

to spend hours on Google so as to learn an exploit to defeat an encounter without getting the Char ripped apart 10 times?

to change my skill build for almost every boss encounter?

to use every exploit in the book?

Some people like these things... I do not. I do not wish to cruise through the game...at the same time I certainly do not like it if a boss char, or its offshoots kill my Char with two blows because of one stupid mistake I made.

I mean...if I block an attack correctly and get flung right across the instance... what is that? I do not mind at all running circles around the room for half an hour... but what use is this with heat-seeking missiles that fry the pants of you? Often I have not even finished with one spawn when another one nicely greets my Char and incinerated the poor girl instantly. What is that?

Learn to play? What baloney (in my opinion). If 'learn to play' means a 100 times death... thanks, but no thanks. I leave this to the experts in getting their Chars smashed up. At least they have something to brag about. how does it go;

I did it! It was easy! Ah...by the way... the Char was defeated 6 times. Well, yes, some people got lucky. Oh... by the way... were you a Vampire to get that lucky?

Enough! If ESO does not cater for average fun seeking people there will be other games that do.

Cogo

Seriously...is this thread still alive? Havn't those who think making an effort "to hard" already buggered off to wow or beta of wildstar? Those games you can sneeze to get a level. Fun eh?

Even though there are not that many here who says what I am right now. Most people who play ESO, LIKES the challenge. Its GOOD when something is to hard to do. If you could do everything in a game...how fun would that be?

If you want easy, there are a lot of options. But, if you want 100 different new things where ONE is that some encounters might be to much for you? Then right now ESO IS the game that can provide that.

No one need to trust me, but ESO is GAINING players. Sure, Loosing a lot the first month who wasn't planning on playing anyway. And some players probebly went away because of all the bugs.....but look at the game. Look whats coming.

I think, if ESO was NOT to hard in some espects, then it would die in a few months like other MMOs who given in and just give power to all players to do everything. Only WoW can pull that off now and the players who likes wow, more then likely do not like ESO, and vice verca.

Chirru

Cogo...we know you will stay with the game no matter what. Good on you.

I just hope you are not too disappointed when the changes (that have to come) will be introduced. In the end the silent majority and the Accountants will decide.

Well, maybe you will not stay with the game after all if this happens...

Syntse

@Grao

Good post and read it all. Agree that there are bugs and inbalances that needs to be adressed, not to mention bots. At the same time they should try to keep their player base too. Personally I have no issue with the difficulty the game is currently, however for my wife as example it may be bit too hard sometimes.

Tricky situation where ZOS should fix ongoing issues but same time make development efforts to even keep the current diminishing player base. Reading some of the threads here for some people the current grouping system starts to be deal breaker.

They have said that they are looking into the grouping, we'll see what kind of solution they come up with and when we'll be seeing that.

AgriyaTheGrey

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I feel so sorry for you guys because you never learned to appreciate the rewarding feeling it gives you if you overcome a challenge finally after countless attempts because you were actually forced to learn the ins and outs of the fight.

There is a difference between a challenge that can be overcome with perseverance and skill, and a brick wall that requires perseverance and a shedload of dumb luck.

Thing far too many people fail to appreciate about probability is that over any reasonably-sized population some individuals will more often than not keep getting crappy numbers, while others will tend to get favourable results regardless of what crappy strategy they might employ. Overall 'the average' will still give everyone the same chance, but individual experience will vary from that, and in some instances to an extreme degree.

So far as I can see, this is what the spread of players claiming the content is 'easy' compared to those of us having problems supports -that in ESO -at present- actual skills and smart playing are less important than simple dumb luck. Many of the set-piece combats actually prevent the use of tactics based on skills, and come down to attrition scenarios where the first one to run out of HP loses, and that too supports the my growing suspicion that dumb luck is more important than 'learning the ins and outs'. (Note: I'm not saying that learning the ins and outs serves no function, only that players who keep telling others to 'l2p' are kidding themselves on about how much impact learning those ins and outs had on the outcome of those combats for them. Learning what will happen during the fight and where to be and what counter to have ready will help, but for many of us that help will boil down to keeping our toon alive long enough for the RNG to throw up the numbers that cause the boss to lose.)

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

It might be me, but this is exactly what I am gaming (and doing sports) for - overcoming challenges, to improve myself.

You really believe that beating a boss in a video game is helping you improve yourself? You and I live on entirely different planets, mate.

Syntse

Sandhya wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

I don't want it to be more easy than it is now, I would be fine with just improving the grouping so people could group any content.

And that would be totally fine... it would be great to introduce a 'Mentor' system that would allow players to replay quests they have previously completed. That way they can assume the Mentor role in a group and select previous quests, and run those with lower level buddies. They are carrying them, but upon reaching VR content that actually diminishes quickly.

However this suggestion has little to do with the difficulty of fights, which was the topic.

*Edit: quotes acting up..

It is one solution for the difficulty of the fights, other one would be nerfing the parts which people find difficulties. Where then those people who seek challenge would be disappointed.

Not sure what you were expecting from the topic if possible compromise to situation is not on topic in your opinion.

Cogo wrote: »

Seriously...is this thread still alive? Havn't those who think making an effort "to hard" already buggered off to wow or beta of wildstar? Those games you can sneeze to get a level. Fun eh?

Even though there are not that many here who says what I am right now. Most people who play ESO, LIKES the challenge. Its GOOD when something is to hard to do. If you could do everything in a game...how fun would that be?

Well gotta say that pretty strange business decision to make game that has challenge with name Elder Scrolls after title like Skyrim where everything was made pretty much easier from previous titles and attracted many casuals that made the game success. WoW and maybe Wildstar are and will be popular just for that reason that they are stress free for the player.

There is also another solution for the dilemma. Make quests and adventuring easy enough to casual players enjoy the content after hard days work. Then make raid and trials content for the crowd that seeks challenge or are competitive hard enough.

FENGRUSH

Chirru wrote: »

Yankee,
I agree with the: "... I managed to somehow muddle through so far." I did the same. Is this satisfactory to me... meh... just until something comes along that allows me more than just to muddle through.

Challenge is fine. However;

to spend hours on Google so as to learn an exploit to defeat an encounter without getting the Char ripped apart 10 times?

to change my skill build for almost every boss encounter?

to use every exploit in the book?

Some people like these things... I do not. I do not wish to cruise through the game...at the same time I certainly do not like it if a boss char, or its offshoots kill my Char with two blows because of one stupid mistake I made.

I mean...if I block an attack correctly and get flung right across the instance... what is that? I do not mind at all running circles around the room for half an hour... but what use is this with heat-seeking missiles that fry the pants of you? Often I have not even finished with one spawn when another one nicely greets my Char and incinerated the poor girl instantly. What is that?

Learn to play? What baloney (in my opinion). If 'learn to play' means a 100 times death... thanks, but no thanks. I leave this to the experts in getting their Chars smashed up. At least they have something to brag about. how does it go;

I did it! It was easy! Ah...by the way... the Char was defeated 6 times. Well, yes, some people got lucky. Oh... by the way... were you a Vampire to get that lucky?

Enough! If ESO does not cater for average fun seeking people there will be other games that do.

Happy to say I never had to spend time on google to get through a boss. I also didnt have to change up my build everytime I fought a boss.

Fact is, mobs arent very complicated in this game and do one or two things. Many fights are the same kind of thing and every class can use a handful of approaches.

Dying isnt learning unless you can recognize what youre doing wrong. If youre dying and cant figure out why youre dying or what else you might be able to do, you can always ask, or google. If you still cant figure out how to do something when the answer is handed to you, youre probably not going to get far with anything that is difficult in your life.

Feel free to post the boss youre stuck on with the build youre using and what your issue is instead of a vague complaint of how many times you died and how badly it made you feel. Id be glad to help. Videos would be better, but Ive never seen any complainers post a video or anything of themselves dying through a real attempt. Itd probably be enlightening to people who just simply fought a boss, possibly died, and rethought their strategy and successfully tried it again.

Bhakura

AgriyaTheGrey wrote: »

There is a difference between a challenge that can be overcome with perseverance and skill, and a brick wall that requires perseverance and a shedload of dumb luck.

No such thing as luck in a fight, because there are no random factors, the only random factor is the player fighting the AI, if you can call it AI to begin with.
the fight didnt go well? that isnt lady fortuna pulling the strings, thats you not performing as you should.

Sleepwalker

Grao wrote: »

No, I don't think things are fine as they are, I am just not sure posts like this help the game go on in anyway. For me they are inflammatory and borderline pointless at this stage.

*Applauds for @Grao* This! A thousand times this!

There are a lot of these threads, and they go on for many, many pages. Each one represents one original poster and a hand-full of others that may, at least partially, agree with him/her. Mixed into that are others that differ in that opinion; some scoff, some offer constructive advice, and some just troll. What has happened in each is that the tone was inevitably misunderstood, the posts turn inflammatory, and the thread goes down the drain into the land of "irrelevant". ZOS has closed quite a few of them. (I've even been guilty of participating in that process a time or two sadly...)

Regardless on where any of us stand on the matter, the real situation is this:

Grao wrote: »

So why I argue so strongly in this posts? Well... To be perfectly honest, I doubt the changes being proposed will be implemented now or anytime soon; I am absolutely sure making solo quests accept more then one player would be very hard, even though it sounds so simple. Nothing in programming is as simple as it seems.

The group that doesn't agree with the 2.9% forced-solo content (Thanks @Grao for the math; I had wondered what the real percentage was), regardless of why they are taking that stance, will have to understand something whether they like it or not:

The change will not happen this year, and there's nothing any of us can do about that. Your fifteen dollars a month will not trump another's fifteen dollars a month and make the other issues with the game, such as bot exploitation and class balance deficiencies, take a back seat until you are personally satisfied. Even if they do decide to make that change, and to be perfectly clear I have zero problems with them doing so, it will take more time than you've likely taken into account. Your options moving forward are to 1) Take a break from the game until... 2015-ish, 2) Quit entirely, or 3) Make some viable attempts to persevere against that 2.9% of the content.

There are literally tons of people on these forums right now that will help with the third option in a very clear and constructive way. However, if either of the first two are chosen, there's nothing anyone here can do. Every thread I've seen on this has hit that wall, and it shortly thereafter turned into a messy, troll-infested bowl of word vomit where two parties try to impress others with their knowledge of logical fallacies. Pretty gross really.

jerzey_gamer

Now granted I'm only a level 38 DK at the moment, up until this point I haven't encountered any fights that royally pissed me off so much that I wanted to quit playing. It was always either a case of me being slightly under-leveled or not having figured out the strategy yet. If necessary, I would bang out a couple more levels and nail it the second time around. At this point, I'm not really sure what to expect at Veteran ranks... Of all the forum posts I've read by now, it honestly seems like half of players think they're insanely grind-y/boring and the other half claims they're just complaining too much. And same is true for a lot of these boss fights - a lot of players PMSing that they're too hard and the rest telling them they're doing it all wrong. Being that I haven't noticed any problems as of yet, I'm starting to think that Veteran ranks might not be as bad as all these people are making it out to be. Leveling 1-50 was the quickest leveling experience I've ever had in an MMO, so even if VR takes 3x as long to level, I honestly don't see much of a problem with that.

dr_zed

Wow, your build must suck. I'm vr4 and never encountered any "hard" fight in PvE. Btw, I run a Nightblade.