Too many fights are just STUPID hard

aleister

I'm all for a challenge. I really am. But there are far too many fights in this game that are just stupidly, ridiculously and pointlessly difficult. I want to progress, I want to enjoy the content. I do not want to spend hours retrying and dying over and over and over and over on the same fight. I'm sure the group I'm in probably doesn't know the ONE secret strategy to taking this boss down or maybe I don't know it when I'm forced into one of these asinine solo-only missions -- either way, I'm sick of it!

Balance the game. I don't care how you do it. Give the hardcore types the the "absurdly difficult" option, give them greater rewards, I don't care, but let the rest of us progress.

BrassRazoo

I just finished a very dodgy fight with a Harvester at VR7.
I have had a lot of problems with Harvesters. The 4 "balls" just spawned way too close to it and it healed back to 100% all the time.
The fight was in such a tight space it was silly.

Finally after about 6 attempts the game must have felt sorry for me as it just seemed to die really easily.

So, yes, I agree, some things are way out of wack and many people will just pull their hair out in frustration.

Perhaps I'll by some shares in Razor, they could be in for an increase in purchases soon.

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO

I don't mind the challenge, but when you die because the game is broken, that is not a good. Whether it be server issues, or faulty game design.

If companions actually functioned as intended, that would help.

Last boss fight, I was dying because my companion kept bugging out, standing there like a lemon, not healing. It was a solo fight where you absolutely had to be healed. Finally I got lucky when the boss decided it was his turn to bug out.

You die, and you think to yourself, well, that was cheap.

You are victorious, and you think to yourself, well, that was cheap.

Blackwidow

I want to disagree with you, but I don't want to come across.

So, if there is a way to make your game better, but it will not effect my game, I'm all for it.

Edited: Flaming

Bangstin

Adjust your build and pick up a different skills on your hotbar for the fight. I don't think the devs even intended that every boss should be killable with every single build. There's plenty of skill points available. Try different tactics. I don't see the why one would insist on dying over and over on a boss. You can always go back to your original hotbar setup after the boss is down.

MasterSpatula

There seems to be a certain kind of person out there who doesn't realize there's a difference between challenging and hard. It seems this type of person is overrepresented on the ZOE staff.

There's also a lot of them on this forum. Be prepared for a flood of "L2P" comments from those who genuinely think a hard, frustrating, hugely-time-consuming experience is the same thing as a challenging, engaging, difficult but interesting experience.

Bromburak

So this thread is basically about asking enemies for mercy.
I am pretty sure Harvesters don't care if you are weak.

BrassRazoo

Bromburak wrote: »

So this thread is basically about asking enemies for mercy.
I am pretty sure Harvesters don't care if you are weak.

I think I was the only one to mention Harvesters, in relation to the OPs issue.

I don't think I am the only one to have had a few niggling issues with some Harvester encounters.

They are really cool mini-bosses with a cleaver healing mechanism, but sometimes the environments you fight them are a little off.

Nox_Aeterna

To be honest , this game is really , really poorly balanced. Be the classes , be the mobs ...

And no , it got nothing to do with progression , my first fight with a boss in VR1 that i remember was a guy that could hit like a truck and was imu to CC , after that , a bunch of bosses that i could almost sleep fighting because they took CC and so on.

The game dif does not progress when you go foward , it just spikes then gets easy then goes insane again , then it is normal ...

There is no logic behind it , if you meet certain enemies you are **** , that simple.

Im almost vet7 , and no , still jumps from time to time lols.

Tavore1138

I think uneven would be the best word for it - certainly going from 1-50 the bulk of bosses were a challenge of some kind but one or two were just infuriatingly harder by an order of magnitude... and not in a 'ooo what a clever strategy way' but more in a 'this was designed by someone who things games should be work' sort of way.

This comes out more in the VR areas because you can't just back away and grab a few levels to help you out and the main method of ramping up in VR seems to be simply adding a lot more HP and making the hit harder.

The other problem is that boss design does not seem to consider all classes - having played a couple of alts through some levels I have found encounters that one class struggled with even at 3 or 4 levels higher another class can walk through even under level. It's as if the devs of some fights did not spend the time to consider that certain strategies are not available to all classes. In group content that is fine but in content that is supposed to be solo that is unforgivable.

ToBbErT

I totally agree with the OP. The game feels like it was balanced by a 10 year old kid.

Leesha

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

The other problem is that boss design does not seem to consider all classes - having played a couple of alts through some levels I have found encounters that one class struggled with even at 3 or 4 levels higher another class can walk through even under level. It's as if the devs of some fights did not spend the time to consider that certain strategies are not available to all classes. In group content that is fine but in content that is supposed to be solo that is unforgivable.

I could not have said this better myself. I can do pretty much everything without thinking on my sorcerer but the second I try the same fights on another class, I fail horribly.

Bromburak

ToBbErT wrote: »

I totally agree with the OP. The game feels like it was balanced by a 10 year old kid.

When reading all those threads its players that request low difficulty for 10 year old ...

Tavore1138

Bromburak wrote: »

ToBbErT wrote: »

I totally agree with the OP. The game feels like it was balanced by a 10 year old kid.

When reading all those threads its players that request low difficulty for 10 year old ...

I'm sure everyone is taking your comment in the helpful & mature way you meant it...

Phantax

I agree the 'balance' is way out on some things. I've had open world trash mobs that are harder to kill than some dungeon bosses (how's that correct?)

isengrimb16_ESO

I have problems with some end-quest bosses (and main quest bosses, though the last fighter's and mage guild quests I did seemed unusually easy) ... but I put it down to a "me" problem. Pelial, I think his name is - it takes place on a ship, and you had to fight a sea serpent while fighting boarders - I'm not sure what he hits me with, but it hits like a truck when he lands it. I think I just need to run around even more. Or charge his face with Killer's Blade.

Zeeed

After completing all quests in game i can say.. Its FINE harvesters *** me over dozens of times like 5-6 attempt most of the time. And thats the way i like it

Its L2P issue and if ith broken/hard you need to pull your finger out and get it down. I have enough of faceroll quests in mmos !!!!

Gwarok

Bromburak wrote: »

So this thread is basically about asking enemies for mercy....

Just gotta

Persuade and Intimidate

(/sarcasm off.)

MasterSpatula

Zeeed wrote: »

harvesters *** me over dozens of times like 5-6 attempt most of the time. And thats the way i like it

I literally don't understand how anyone, even one single person in the world, actually says, "I died 6 times before I succeeded. That's the way I like it."

Its L2P issue and if ith broken/hard you need to pull your finger out and get it down. I have enough of faceroll quests in mmos !!!!

You just don't get that, for some people, fighting the same enemy six times before finally getting past it (and usually, you're not doing anything different. you just got lucky the sixth time) is BORING. Tedious, repetitive, dull, dull, dull. It's like reading a novel, only being forced to read the same page six times just because the novelist just decided your time wasn't valuable and you really shouldn't be enjoying the experience anyway.

Some things in this game present a truly difficult, interesting challenge. Pre-nerf Doshia, for example, was hard but not so hard you couldn't learn the trick in time to take her out. But "immune to CC, ludicrous DPS, absurd health" isn't an interesting challenge; it's not an engaging difficulty to overcome; it's just uncreatively, unoriginally, dumbly hard.

No one's asking for easy. No one's asking for "faceroll." But it would be nice to see boringly-hard replaced with interesting and rewarding challenges--and to see our valuable time treated with respect.

Seroczynski

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Zeeed wrote: »

harvesters *** me over dozens of times like 5-6 attempt most of the time. And thats the way i like it

I literally don't understand how anyone, even one single person in the world, actually says, "I died 6 times before I succeeded. That's the way I like it."

It has to do with a feeling of achievement. I can relate to the original quote.

Pele

Agree, OP.

I couldn't have said it better myself so I will simply quote the following:

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Zeeed wrote: »

harvesters *** me over dozens of times like 5-6 attempt most of the time. And thats the way i like it

I literally don't understand how anyone, even one single person in the world, actually says, "I died 6 times before I succeeded. That's the way I like it."

Its L2P issue and if ith broken/hard you need to pull your finger out and get it down. I have enough of faceroll quests in mmos !!!!

You just don't get that, for some people, fighting the same enemy six times before finally getting past it (and usually, you're not doing anything different. you just got lucky the sixth time) is BORING. Tedious, repetitive, dull, dull, dull. It's like reading a novel, only being forced to read the same page six times just because the novelist just decided your time wasn't valuable and you really shouldn't be enjoying the experience anyway.

Some things in this game present a truly difficult, interesting challenge. Pre-nerf Doshia, for example, was hard but not so hard you couldn't learn the trick in time to take her out. But "immune to CC, ludicrous DPS, absurd health" isn't an interesting challenge; it's not an engaging difficulty to overcome; it's just uncreatively, unoriginally, dumbly hard.

No one's asking for easy. No one's asking for "faceroll." But it would be nice to see boringly-hard replaced with interesting and rewarding challenges--and to see our valuable time treated with respect.

Lodestar

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO wrote: »

I don't mind the challenge, but when you die because the game is broken, that is not a good. Whether it be server issues, or faulty game design.

If companions actually functioned as intended, that would help.

Last boss fight, I was dying because my companion kept bugging out, standing there like a lemon, not healing. It was a solo fight where you absolutely had to be healed. Finally I got lucky when the boss decided it was his turn to bug out.

You die, and you think to yourself, well, that was cheap.

You are victorious, and you think to yourself, well, that was cheap.

Yes. I was thinking this just last night as more than once, during the final Aldmeri Dominion Quest, my companion did sweet FA while I got pummelled. I actually found myself calling out verbally for him to do something.

Throughout my play time at least since launch I have lost count of how many times a quest companion suddenly goes into spectator mode. I wish I could charge them gold for a ticket.

Mind you maybe this deserves a separate thread. After all, this is a thread about perceptions of difficulty, and I really wonder why it is in the customer support section.

Kililin

I like hard fights, i can cope with fights where one error kills you.

But i have a problem with not knowing what happens, and some fights are really random. Like you are figuring out what you can do, switching skills around, and suddenly you win the fight without even using your thought out tactic, but the mob just used other/less abilities, or started to use more abilities.
Short explanation, more abilities is helpful in some cases because i am a vampire and bosses with fire auto attack can basically kill me with just auto attack, while i can dodge and interrupt their skills.

I think the biggest problem is the randomness of some fights, difficulty is good, depending on RNG kind of bad.

BSGDevastator

Well, I can only give my opinion and tell about my experiences, but here I come:

There's no boss who's too hard. There are alot of bosses who are too easy. I, as a NB Vampire with alot of self healing through Leeching Strikes and Siphon Health, can easily solo any stunnable Boss. If they now have 20k health or 10000k health, the only thing that increases is the duration of the fight.

I think CC should be weakened against ANY boss so you can't just stunlock them. Against Harvesters I recommend using AOE spells to hit all balls simultaneously. I honestly don't know if that works, since I've never had to try it (again, stunlock OP).

I've tried my first Veteran dungeon yesterday and it was the best thing I've EVER seen in my entire life which only consists out of MMO.

My whole group got taken out by the first boss (an enormous spider) and I had to fight it all by myself. (The boss was at around 20%hp already)
I managed to kill it by kiting it and dodging the majority of attacks and poison spells.

That was pretty fun and it felt like a real accomplishment.
The second boss was WAY harder. It is a 3m big girl with shadow-oriented spells.
Basicly what the boss does is chain two players together to deal alot of DoT if you didn't manage to break it.
After that, one player gets chained to the ground by 4 shadows, while the sword of damocles slowly comes closer and closer.
If your group didn't manage to take one of those shadows out, you were dead. Instantly.
The third move made her disappear while around 5-7 shadows fought us instead of her.

One heavy attack = around 1500dmg

Even with our unbalanced group (1 DK Tank, 1 DK DPS, 1 NB DPS, 1 NB Healer) and some stupid mistakes (namely someone reviving one of us while another one is sentenced to death by the sword of damocles) we brought the boss down to 30% hp.

We tried to defeat the boss 16 times and never managed to do so.
However, that bossfight was still too easy imo. If my teammates only would've gotten the concept of not reviving someone while another is beeing chained to the ground... Oh well.

Anyways, I think a bossfight should punish every just so small mistake your group does, leading to your failure.
A bossfight shouldn't be easy and let you get away with even the slightest mistake.

Analyzing the behaviour of a boss and then countering its abilities is what should win you the fight.
If the chance to kill a boss is at 0.01% then that's perfectly fine. He's not impossible to kill, thus you can win.
You just have to find a way, switch your skillsets, etc etc.

If you can't defeat a boss, level up, get better gear and try him again. There's always a way to defeat a boss and even if he's a harvester and the orbs spawn directly besides him, there's still a way to defeat him.


I am not saying L2P. Not at all. What I'm saying is, that you're not flexible enough. You can't try to defeat a boss over and over again without changing your playstyle even the slightest. Sometimes you have to admit that you don't have the slightest chance to defeat a boss. Then you have to tell yourself that you can't make it and that you will improve yourself and come back later.

I'm going back to that Shadow-damocles sword boss when I've grown a little stronger and then I'll be more than happy to beat his ass.

Syntse

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

I have problems with some end-quest bosses (and main quest bosses, though the last fighter's and mage guild quests I did seemed unusually easy) ... but I put it down to a "me" problem. Pelial, I think his name is - it takes place on a ship, and you had to fight a sea serpent while fighting boarders - I'm not sure what he hits me with, but it hits like a truck when he lands it. I think I just need to run around even more. Or charge his face with Killer's Blade.

I so loved that quest and fight, there was some intensity in that one. Enemies climbing on board, cannon fire, sea serpent.

KerinKor

Seroczynski wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Zeeed wrote: »

harvesters *** me over dozens of times like 5-6 attempt most of the time. And thats the way i like it

I literally don't understand how anyone, even one single person in the world, actually says, "I died 6 times before I succeeded. That's the way I like it."

It has to do with a feeling of achievement. I can relate to the original quote.

In cases like that my reaction is usually relief I don't have to do it again, rarely does repeatedly dieing and then getting a lucky break from the RNG feel like an achievement: I 'won' because the RNG was kind, not because I suddenly got better.

MasterSpatula

BSGDevastator wrote: »

[snip]
We tried to defeat the boss 16 times and never managed to do so.
However, that bossfight was still too easy imo.
[snip]
If the chance to kill a boss is at 0.01% then that's perfectly fine. He's not impossible to kill, thus you can win.

Great for you, but what you're describing is the 100%, utter, complete and total opposite of enjoyable to me. It is the Antifun. Playing your ideal game would make me feel angry and disrespected.

You think a one percent of one percent chance of success is "perfectly fine." Great. Games aimed at someone who thinks like you should be marketed specifically to people like you (like Dark Souls is), not to a general audience.

Meanwhile, those of us who think your opinion is FREAKIN' BONKERS still pay a sub, still want an actual challenge--one that takes skill, planning, and a little luck to get past, not one that takes skill, planning, and a god-awful-improbably-enormous-crap-ton of luck.

Gelston

I wouldn't be against a difficulty slider for main story personal quests. Only a couple points approached what I felt was difficult, but I have seen a lot of threads with people saying it is too hard for them. Obviously you'd be reward better for doing it on harder difficulty, if not with some sort of self satisfaction then some other method. Maybe an emote that lets you pat yourself on the back.

For dungeons, they should make difficulty settings, with higher rewards for harder difficulties. I've seen them in other MMOs. (And no, I don't mean the current difference between vet and regular, that is two completely different sets of bosses.)

Slantasiam

I have a v10 sorc and a v5 Dk never asked or needed help on any boss any easyer it would be a faceroll.

Mojomonkeyman

I really don`t understand the sense of entitlement some of you have to faceroll through everything. I see someone say: "I like it challenging, but dying 6 times is unacceptable" and I feel so sorry for you guys because you never learned to appreciate the rewarding feeling it gives you if you overcome a challenge finally after countless attempts because you were actually forced to learn the ins and outs of the fight.

It might be me, but this is exactly what I am gaming (and doing sports) for - overcoming challenges, to improve myself. This game really is not hard. Watch the encounters, watch their animations, learn what of their skills is getting you in trouble and learn to react accordingly.

20 years ago I had two big passions: martial arts and scbw (starcraft 1 expansion), they had one thing in common: to become good, you had to learn to appreciate that you are terrible. You were forced to become humble, to learn that it is the defeats that make you stronger, not the victories. Because you wont learn anything from winning. You will only become a better player, if you lose... a lot.

Losing makes you rethink and analyse what went wrong and immensely increases the rewarding feeling you get when finally overcoming a challenge you weren`t able to overcome before.

I like that TESO is forcing players to actually think when playing. I literally used white armor most of my vet levels to artificially increase the difficulty and therefore increase the feeling of reward I get when succeeding finally. Yeah, I died a lot.

It seems you guys never learned to appreciate challenges, you want everything handed to you on a silver plate and I pity you. Did you guys ever compete in any sport? I dont think so, because your attitude just doesn`t fit.

My 2 cent.

starkerealm

Bromburak wrote: »

ToBbErT wrote: »

I totally agree with the OP. The game feels like it was balanced by a 10 year old kid.

When reading all those threads its players that request low difficulty for 10 year old ...

Here's the thing, I've been taking some time off of ESO and actually dug Dark Souls out of my backlog...

Now, I'm not sure if I agree with those who claim that Dark Souls is the hardest game of the generation (STALKER with mods is still far, far crueler). But the game is challenging, and I haven't had a death that didn't, genuinely, feel like it was my own fault: because I just suck, and didn't realize it, because I screwed up, or because I hadn't seen that pattern before and OHGODMYFACE*splat*

EDIT: There've also been a few, "I have made a terrible mistake," moments, come to think of it.

The Harvester fights? They're just cheap. It's not my fault that the Harvester decided it had had enough of my crap, and decided to spam that tracking pulse attack. It wasn't my fault that it decided the best plan of action, while The Feast was active, was to use it again. If blocking had stopped The Feast, then, sure, that'd be my fault, but it picked me up through a block, and then popped out another 4 orbs, bringing the total to 8... briefly, before the first four caught up with it.

If there was a moment of player interaction that could have affected the outcome, then, yes, I'd be fine with it, but it's the stuff where it's an instant, random, "you lose" button the boss can flick whenever it feels like, that it's no longer challenging, and just irritating.

I'll take a challenging game, a difficult, unfair, and unforgiving one. But, this, it's none of those. I'm just waiting for the AI to break so I can actually finish her off.