FIX THE WEREWOLF!

Aphilas

3 game breaking issues with WW.

1. No CC breaks. Absolutely horrible considering how CC heavy this game is. This alone makes WW completely useless in PvP and extremely questionable uses in PvE.

2. WW skills being a completely separate bar. I thought ESO boasted about how skills from class, weapon, world, guild trees are being mixed to achieve play style you want. Thing is, every other skill in the game has some kind of synergy or even multiple synergies with other skills. Which empowers them and makes interesting builds. WW has 0 synergy besides getting slight buffs from being close to other WW due to WW skills being locked away from everything else. How do you expect a wooping total of 2 skills to be even remotely comparable to possibilities of all other trees? Unless it's werewolf swarm and a paw bash (yeah, a bad joke but paw bash would actually partially solve no CC break issue).

3. Obvious ultimate cost/duration/togability issue which is the only issue that seems to be addressed in close future by Zenimax.

Neutronium_Dragon

Oronell wrote: »

The question I have now is this: Why do Vamps have a tailor made anti werewolf ability (poison mist) but WW don't have any tailor made anti vamp ability?

Probably because the poison mist working well against werewolves is incidental rather than being an intentional anti-werewolf trait. The "Werewolf vs Vampire" shtick isn't really part of the TES universe

Oronell

Neutronium_Dragon wrote: »

Probably because the poison mist working well against werewolves is incidental rather than being an intentional anti-werewolf trait. The "Werewolf vs Vampire" shtick isn't really part of the TES universe

It looks like they are heading in that direction though. Why poison and not disease? Undead are usually associated with the the latter.

If your character is a Werewolf in Skyrim, Harkon (the vampire lord) refers to Lycanthropy as "filth". It is for that very reason I transformed into a Werewolf for a portion of the Harkon boss fight and took immense pleasure when I back-slapped him across the room. Lol.

ScardyFox

To be honest though, this is borderline meaningless. Even if they cut the ultimate to 10 I am still losing major DPs and utility by transforming. People who care about the line need to keep pressing the issue.

Grygnak

Yeah I'd like the WW fixed as well, getting tired of everytime I use a WW ability he doesn't go RAAAAAWWWWWRRRRR!

adesanawa

I agree, even if they made it toggle in the next patch, I still won't use it due to DPS and utility loss. Not to mention waste of a good ultimate slot.
They should at least make the passives applies in human form (even if it's only half) to make it at least worthwhile.

I should probably respec until they make this skill line worthwhile. Right now it's just a waste of points.

Nogard37

I have a vampire and werewolf character. Both skill lines have been maxed out. These are just some observations I've made while ranking both to veteran.

If you really want to see the difference between the vamps and the wolfs look at the number of guilds. I have heard of quite a few vamp guild and absolutely NO wolf guilds. Not even a rumor of one. I mean really! If it's not a good ability then people won't get the skill then in turn won't make guilds.

There appears to be a lot more vamps in PvP then wolfs. Its because the vamp powers are so universal. The wolfs don't seem to have made it out of beta. There not useful! It appears that YOU (Zinimax) were so excited about the vamp that you forgot to do anything with wolfs. They have only one skill that can be used out of wolf form. It's only a passive skill at that! It's not useful in any way because the Ultimate Points are too high. Not to even mention that the Ultimate meter will crash from having to many points (getting so close then CRASH). The wolfs aren't even in the same league as vamps especially in PvP.

For my vamp character three of my five ability slots are vamp powers. The wolf only has two ability and they are not useful. Another major problem is CC. Wolfs needs a CC ability of some kind, ANY KIND. It's a problem when one vamp can destroy FOUR people with minor resistance and a wolf is LUCKY to kill even TWO people in PvP. The wolf needs more active and passive abilitys. It's also very weak especially in PvE veteran zones unless you have someone healing you every second. Now that just pitiful. Looking at older Elder Scroll games the wolf is supposed to be a huge scary tank like monster then why in there "best" game everything is stronger than the wolf?

The wolf needs to be fixed soon if not in the next update. If you really cannot fix these problems that plague the wolf community then they should just remove the temptation of a useless skill line until they can truly release a decent wolf skill tree at the bar that you promised the community as a whole.

The war on bots and gold spammers is a big problem I will admit, yet isn't fixing performance issues (like wolf skill tree) bigger? You can control performance issues much more easily than bots and spammers. If you don't have a good functioning product to present you will get rid of your spamming and bot problem absolutely because there won't be very many players left.

I really do like playing as a wolf. I would pick a wolf over vamp nine out of ten times! This problem with wolfs is just so unexpected. Don't tempt us with chocolate that's really made of ***.

I truly love werewolf yet at the moment the wolf is a joke.

PS.
THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE WRONG NOT THINGS I WANT.
PLEASE TAKE WHAT I HAVE SAID INTO CONSIDERATION. Thank you

Sincerely your die hard fans
@nogard37 & @Rovaan

Nogard37

^ Zinimax if you would like to continue this conversation in game feel free to contact us. We do have an account and I'm sure you could find our emails with the accounts. Feed back would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again

Crescent

Another issue is the visual flair.

Vamps get a visual change to their character, and they get several different spell effects. The bat swarm, the mist form, the blood beam.

Meanwhile I turn into a werewolf and just claw something. The howl is not that special, and pounce less so.

It just doesn't feel powerful or as visually rich as a vampire.

Orcula

Yeah. WW is a real disappointment so far. I mean it hits like a small truck....at current level/stats, doing 150 with light attack and almost 450 with heavy. However, the ultimate cost is super dumb. Not only do my ultimate points reset if i stay out of combat for too long, ( afk or something) but it takes about 950 UP to transform.....and you only get it for like 60 secs. I realize that passives and rank will decrease this, but not significantly enough in my opinion. Compared to vamp, it is ***. Vamps Bat swarm (either morph)...GOD MODE...only costs 200 UP, they don't have to transform, and the can use vamp abilities whenever they want.

I would be happy if they increased WW form duration to 5 mins and lowered ultimate cost to 500 by default. And anyone who says 5 mins default is to long, consider that the only abilities WW can use are the 2 in the tree, and that in PVP. a lot of zerg fights can kill you quicker than 5 mins.

Toorlokviing

as i woke up this morning i really thought about what could make the ww better. besides the decreased number on ult and increased time as ww here are my thoughts

take out call of the pack and put in Full Moon Rising make 1/1

full moon rising - while moons are out increase ult generation by 50% and remain in ww until toggled..while form is active increase poison damage received by an additional 5-10%.

take out blood rage and put in Berserk make 2/2

Berserk - increase health regen by 2%/4% per enemy your engaged with while in ww form. increase ult generation while engaged with 1 or more enemies by 3%/6% while in humanoid form every 5 sec.

also i really think ww need some makeovers in terms of looks...we need more variety of colors. i.e. tan, brown, light brown, black, white, light grey, timber, dark grey, and variations of colors in between those..how these colors should be implemented are...grey, timber, dark grey, and light grey should be randomized colors for player when they first recieve the gift of hircine and transform before morphs come into the picture...tan, light brown, brown, and dark brown should be variations of the form when you morph into ww beserker. black and white should be solely reserved for pack leader morph. this way players can stand out...and you can tell what morph they chose when they transform...helps also with roleplaying and gulid hierchy for ww guilds. ie. alphas always being black or white. while betas are all browns. how these randomized colors could be implented...maybe it could be based on race the player chose...or hair color, skin color, or other stuff i cnat think of right now.

if the above abilities are considered zos...i really think ww form ult should be brought down to roughly 700 or even 500. this would balance the fact that if somone decides to get the savior's hide set and equip 5 pieces...that would roughtly bring it down to about 450 or less or 250 or less. as i have expermented with my ww form and that set along with the sorc passive that reduces ult costs. it brought my ult down to roughly 487 after all that.. its very reasonable to make it about that if you dont consider using the full moon rising...though something like that would be pretty lore friendly. time in ww form...it would be reasonable to say that after you reach 10 skill in ww and have everything unlocked...give us 1min-1.5min per transform. please get rid of the cd on devour as well...makes no sense and with our current time in form...its pretty sad. also change roar's disorientation down to 3 meters plz...we dont want to pull mob after mob because right now..we cant handle it most of the time...to squishy. other than that fix bugs on pack leader and were good to go. somewhere down the road when you introduce more morphs...wed like a morph that allows the cd on bites to be reduced...pack master anyone? more abilities would be appreciated to fill up those 3 empty slots on our bar...ive seen some pretty nasty abilities on npc ww and would like to see them on our bar as well.

Xarko

I want werewolves to crit as high as the wall of text above.

Brizz

Bug Fixes -
Getting stuck in pounce animation
Losing werewolf form 2 seconds into it (seems to do this while in group)
Not being able to weapon swap or stealth after werewolf has ended
Going into werewolf form but still visually a human
Ultimate gained while in form resets upon leaving form
Roll Dodge and Break Free added and working

I think werewolves can be tweaked in a way similar to this to the existing abilities to give us the edge we need.

• Werewolf Transformation: Transforms player into a Werewolf causing nearby enemies to run in fear. Increases Stamina, Armor, Spell resistance and Run Speed. Attack damage is derived from Max Stamina. Cost: 500 Ultimate

Spell resist and ultimate reduction are both much needed.

• Devour (0/1): Can devour any corpse to earn more time in werewolf form. While channeling, heals for 10% max health per second and grants immunity to knockback and disabling effects for the duration.

(4 more seconds for every 1 second devouring, can devour a single corpse repeatedly) This gives us a much needed heal while in form and adds to toolbox without adding more ability clutter.

• Savage Strength (0/2): Increases Max Stamina and Health by 3%/5% for each kill. Effect stacks up to five times.

Kills should be more rewarding and with lack of defensive abilities, we need the extra health.

These are my ideas, input is much appreciated.

ploddab16_ESO

Finally, a thread that Zenimax has posted in! You've no idea how happy it makes me to finally see them saying that they're looking at the issue after so many days of silence from them. Right.. My two cents on the werewolf, and how it needs to be fixed:

First and foremost, the WW ultimate needs to become an ultimate free toggle-able ability that lasts as long as we want it to. WW should be working pretty much like the feral druid forms in WoW; i.e. you gain a load of close range damage abilities that can do an insane amount of damage, but at the same time you get drawbacks to it, like losing the ability to use your class skills and healing abilities, plus your potions. That alone would be a huge improvement in how the form itself plays, as then we could actually USE it at the lower levels.

The second one is rather minor, but customization and animation improvements are direly needed with the werewolf. We know there are other werewolf skins in the game, so allowing some of these to be unlocked via further WW quests or a vendor at the Hircine totems would be awesome, and actually having a werewolf that uses the on all fours walking and running animations would be great. Oh. And /howl. We totally need /howl!

Here's hoping our feedback gets used to make some awesome improvements to the skill tree!

Bhakura

Werewolf is where it should be, this proves it:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=_iGS8DOOoF8

Primaxx

Would love to see the WW shift form be a toggle rather then a timed ultimate. With people treating you as they would a werewolf.
Same should apply to a Vamp at full hunger....every player can see they're a Vamp, why can't the NPC's ? A raging Werewolf or full hunger Vamp should be kill on sight in almost all towns with the exception of camps that accept/favor/tolerate these creatures of the night.

IJustAre

From what I'm seeing there seems to be only two solutions to the Werewolf form being an ultimate. Either reduce the points it needs, or buff the damage and survivability of the Werewolf form. The only problem is, Werewolf in PvP isn't going to do well if either are path are taken without the other.

ScardyFox

There are certainly more than two solution - dropping Werewolf as an ultimate (and it becoming a toggle) would be the best place to start.

Toorlokviing

@nogard37 i actually have a ww guild in game...albiet a small one...im trying to get more members and the only way it seems to get more members is promise of free bites...which i dont mind doing. im in dc if you want to find me. my name is the same here as in game so look me up

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO

Werewolf really feels not as powerful as Vampire. Having limited time as a werewolf against those vampire around you is just wrong.
When I transformed to a werewolf, I had to stop whenever the Devour skill was up to feed and was vulnerable to the attacks of other monsters during that that time.
My suggestion is: more time as a werewolf! Its just too short. Triple it and adjust Devour to replace 50% of this time whatever he feeds on. The restrictions as a werewolf are just embarrasing compared to the far superior vampires.
I prefer longer time as a werewolf with the current ultimate cost instead of current time and lowered costs. I want to feel as a werewolf for a longer time, not like a changeling that switches form every 2 minutes when ultimate is up again.

Zhoyzu

I saw someone post earlier about the Ult being a toggle using the current ult amount. If they extended the time by like 2-3 seconds per 10 ult that would be a solid amount of maximum time to be a werewolf.

I have leveled my WW tree to 10. My only complaints are: the glass cannon with no ammo aspect, 30 seconds of badassery, and being interupted when devouring.

In Skyrim (and IIRC morrowind) the devouring was uninteruptable (as it should be) and it restored health.
The real question is why isn't this in the game? Was it an oversight? I was glad to notice that when you use devour, you are given time in ww form just long enough for the duration of devour; on top of the time from devouring corpses.

I really hope that when they release craglorn that the werewolf might be viable outside of the shrine to hircine.
PVE might be viable if the mob count isnt above 6 and they dont have CC.

I have used WW in PvP twice. The first time i went in with full ult (lucky me it didnt vanish) and danced for about 5 seconds. It was humorous slightly that when i ran at the enemies they hesitated because they were all "wtf a werewolf" and then i died. i think i hit someone twice; next to no damage.
The second time i used WW form on accident and feared some people but died before i could stand up.

thywolfb16_ESO2

Nogard37 wrote: »

I have a vampire and werewolf character. Both skill lines have been maxed out. These are just some observations I've made while ranking both to veteran.

If you really want to see the difference between the vamps and the wolfs look at the number of guilds. I have heard of quite a few vamp guild and absolutely NO wolf guilds. Not even a rumor of one. I mean really! If it's not a good ability then people won't get the skill then in turn won't make guilds.

I am in a WW guild, 200+ people in it on AD, and the reason for them not really showing up in PvP is well, vampires are over powered, werewolves.... lets just say that I was better off fighting things as a dragon knight in the quest area "The Hunting Grounds" So if you are better off not being one in the quest area to get your skill line vs PvE mobs, why would you be better off in PvP

They are just to underpowered.


I'd like to see a fiery claws ability to deal with vampires as well >:3

Grold

Bugs aside the Werewolf skill line is pretty useless at the moment and a waste of skill points. I'm werewolf and i don't use it anymore as it's totally not worth it, i'm much more effective in the normal human form with all my abilities.

Werewolves needs to be buffed a bit , there are many option like the morphing of the melee skills the player have in his bar and an ultimate which last a lot more than now, also if werewolves can use the form on a limited time said form should be really overpowered compared to vampires who are using the form permanently.

But most probably these suggestions should be made using the form in game to reach someone who can really change something.

KiroElmarok

Signed.
I've been cured for now. I wait for Hircines gift to be fixed.

logik8469

/Signed .. I've kept my WW tree because I love being a WW in the elder scrolls. I'm holding out hope that it will be fixed somewhat soon. So far I must say I'm greatly disappointed by a few things, such as not having any clear visuals that I am a werewolf .. maybe yellow eyes or some facial hair. Also the fact that werewolves are even allowed to be CCed while in WW form is kind of lame. We could use some minor buffs outside werewolf form, maybe increased run speed, or strength or increased scent allowing us to track down enemies in the near vicinity. In the mean time they could do us all a solid and cut down the ult cost in half until a real fix comes. Oh and I'd love to be able to even transform without immediately reverting back to human form.

Anyway I really hope we get another response from Zenimax letting us know at least that they're working on the issue. And I'm all for people getting even more skill lines to battle against Vamps and WWs, aside from the Fighters guild line.

mat.wollermanb16_ESO

I love the werewolf, sounds like a lot of people do, some very good ideas and passionate responses.

Bug fixes and a tweak to the ultimate cost would be a great start.

My 2 cents:

Transformation should be a slotted ultimate ability, you need to transform into a Werewolf vs a vampire which is permanent. However 925 ultimate is stupidly high and takes forever to generate. Considering the higher cost ultimate's of other skill lines are around 300, WW needs to be reduced to about 500.

Give us more time in WW form, most of the time I just stay as long as I can and push to the limit or get killed because it's such a chore getting the ulti back up. With more flexibility of longer up time and lower ulti cost, WW would have the option to change back to using human sustain and heal abilities.

I think the bulk of passives should be applied only in Werewolf form as it's a transformation but it would be nice to have a small passive increase in human form, perhaps a few percent increase in stamina, sprint speed and something around perception (sense of smell maybe?) that provides a damage bonus vs deadric and undead, making it more team Werewolf vs team Vampire.

Looking forward to the WW patch.

ScardyFox

I'm honestly surprised how many people mention ultimate cost. It should be dropped completely and Were's get their own ultimate like vampire.

Xarko

ScardyFox wrote: »

I'm honestly surprised how many people mention ultimate cost. It should be dropped completely and Were's get their own ultimate like vampire.

I think we all agree to that, realisticaly I doubt we gonna see a change like that any time soon tho...so people ask for a simple number tweak at least to make it playable, for starters.

ScardyFox

Xarko wrote: »

ScardyFox wrote: »

I'm honestly surprised how many people mention ultimate cost. It should be dropped completely and Were's get their own ultimate like vampire.

I think we all agree to that, realisticaly I doubt we gonna see a change like that any time soon tho...so people ask for a simple number tweak at least to make it playable, for starters.

For me its aim high, in particular if they're listening, stated several times over now. Sure, it won't reach the mark we want collectively, but better to reach for the stars then turn a night light on and call it a day.

Xithian

I want very much to be a werewolf, however I have been a werewolf and after a few weeks of buyers remorse (no, I didn't actually pay for it) I cured myself and contracted vampyrism. I had all skills unlocked. I still have a full set of Salvation armor in my bank.

Not once did I run into a situation where the werewolf transformation was a boon. It looks cool... it feels cool... But you have a fear and a gap closer, that's it. Pounce is fairly slow and I do more damage with a heavy attack. This is not even taking into account how much ultimate it cost and how short it is. And as others have pointed out, you are pretty much always going to be more effective out of werewolf form than in it.

What it comes down to is the vampire line is effective. The skills and passives can be worked into existing builds to improve them. The werewolf line just "looks cool" and is an all-or-nothing affair which you have to sacrifice more than just the +50% poison damage to make use of.

I desperately hope that the werewolf line gets some love in the future.